danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191882#Comment_3191882
After reading the o/p I am getting 'distrobution' vibes on my end, coupled with some 'probably', 'likely', etc vibes while trying to make a direct statement/correlation based on personal assumptions.
It's a well founded assumption. We know the devs are too stubborn to balance for high level alone, so they're using statistics created from all different skill levels, skewed results, so whatever 'conclusion' they think they've come up with us gonna be wrong every time. You don't focus on top level, you're not getting the full picture that is this game's balance.
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Hag. She's way too stressful under MMR. My survivors always seem to know the perfect time to trip my traps to where I can't get any use of them, meaning I wasted like 30 seconds collectively placing all that. I try to give her a go every now and then but it's always the same story.
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Yes.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191474#Comment_3191474
This is the first time i’ve heard someone use “competitive” for dbd
Get used to it. We're a mostly competitive community, whether the devs meant for it to be a party game or not. They're all over the place with their balancing, sometimes balancing for high level and sometimes balancing for casuals. Sometimes casuals want to talk about balance while also claiming to be casual, and that's what causes problems: people who don't understand the game deciding what's balanced and what isn't. Side rant aside, this is a competitive game. It's not balanced for eSports but it should be.
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@Akumakaji said:
Just some musings...
I understand the wisdom of the hatch, ie if a killer is really snowballing and kills off one survivor at 4 gens remaining, there is no real chance that the survivor's will regularly win this and the hatch let's them play on, because it is a sliver of hope that everyone can clinge to.
But why don't killers have a sliver of hope mechanic? Like when the survivors are utterly dominating and they got just 1 or 2 hooks, no one on death hook, all gens done. The killer got no hope in such a scenario, no actual reason to go on.
So how about a special mori that activates once the exit gates are powered when no survivor is on death hook: the next survivor downed can be moried. Simple as that. Would that be considered unfair? Or unfun? Up until this the survivors obviously had their fun.
"That would be rewarding the killer for failing" - fair enough... but then, isn't the hatch doing the same? Rewarding survivors for failing?
"Killers are already strong enough. No need to boost them further. " - fair enough. But would a system like this really be a boost? It would be more like an anti frustration or hope mechanic, just like the hatch.
This is something I've said. There's no killer equivalent of hatch. And it is rewarding the survivors for failing by giving them a free escape.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193847#Comment_3193847
So, let's tell killers to stop complaining about two survivors who 'just hide till the other one dies holding the game hostage' because they're just doing their objective and trying to survive; which is the real objective not gens, gens just facilitate the objective to a point. But they won't, because it's boring as is being slugged for survivors.
This is a fantastic example of a situation that needs addressing because whist they're both valid tactics they're indecisive to Good interesting play and it's rampant. It needs intervention.
At least the killer is progressing the game.
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@legacycolt said:
It’s certainly cringe to slug for the 4K
No, it's cringe to do nothing and hide when you know you're outmatched and need the hatch to escape.
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Because they don't want to give up a well fought 4k for free.
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@Veinslay said:
Maybe you should try playing killer and play in a survivor friendly way. You know, be the change you want to be
They wouldn't make it far.
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@Marigoria said:
Yea killers have been hitting on hook a lot lately.
I'm never toxic, play fair and I'm also a solo player, yet since the game right now favors high tier killers, they feel the need to show off too.
And only the high tiers.
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@Wezil said:
It's almost like BHVR made mid-level and low-level play worse for survivors and did nothing for upper level play. I think they're doing pretty good so far.
I don't think they made it anything other than better for mid and low level survivors. They get free Haste and Endurance off the hook, even though they don't realize how powerful that is. For upper level, they gave killer a placebo effect, and limited high level survivors' ability to get 4 people out every time, just by a little bit, by stopping endgame DS and Off The Record. Otherwise the game is just as survivor sided as before, with solo missing out on the OPness only because of bad matchmaking giving them bad teammates.
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@RavenzZ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193742#Comment_3193742
As I had said in my post, I'm never playing spacebar simulator. If I'm healthy and not in any real danger of dying I'm not gonna just throw a pallet for fun, but at the same time I'm not gonna get myself trapped in basement in solo-q just because Rodney has a 20% chance of getting a little distance from that pallet at the end of the game.
I'm just thinking from the killer pov. Nobody's even looped shack and the first person I chase there instadrops it. I'm like, "Ooh, that's nice."
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193739#Comment_3193739
With bad enough survivors they could
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193739#Comment_3193739
Oh, yes he can. Just need new or bad survivors and someone to feed him.
@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193739#Comment_3193739
Of course he does. Myers isn't consistently strong, but he snowballs extraordinarily well. Sometimes the survivors are just potatoes and one misplay with Tier 3 active can lead to the whole survivor team getting downed in 30s. It doesn't happen regularly, but some of my Myers matches could have been contenders for DBD speedrunning awards.
But then it wouldn't be a normal game. Even with them playing like toddlers, he has to spend time chasing, downing, and hooking them. Of course people DCing and killing themselves on hook is outside of what I'm saying. I'm talking about VSing people who know how to play the game.
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@Freddy96 said:
I really dont get this, if a survivor is good it means that he deserves to win more often than losing.
If the whole community idea of balancing is that good survivors must lose because of reasons then what's the point? It wouldn't be balancing it would be skill's communism
The thing is DBD there's being good at then there's just being good on gens. Survivors can get away with just being good on gens, even if they go down in chase really quick. So if the survivors aren't required to really be good and they're beating a killer who's playing good, we're wondering how that's fair to the killer.
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@RavenzZ said:
Ok, I get that god pallets are useful to have towards the end of the game, but some people are so obsessed with never throwing them down its crazy. Like if I’m running a killer and spamming space bar at every pallet then yeah, it’s a bad move, but if I’m on my last hook and the killer is trailing right behind me then sorry Jimmy, I’m throwing down shack pallet. Another thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of people who complain about people “wasting” god pallets are the same type to never even be near those pallets when they haven’t been used, and only complain when they rely on a single pallet being not used in the entire map to win a chase.
You might want to save shack pallet for later, or a jungle gym pallet, because they make the loops busted. But all the others, just instadrop them for free distance.
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@lady_luck_71 said:
i have been playing this game for 8 months now and playing as survivor is stressful. Playing as Killer is so easy. Killers have perks that allow me to see the survivors and sabotage generators and I am so fast. I never lose. Oh and don’t let me pick the shape, I once played a game that ended in maybe 5mins lol. The one thing survivors had that was unique was dead hard. Put it back
The best Myers in the world couldn't end the game in 5 minutes.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192136#Comment_3192136
Ok so what are you saying! Hag slugs end of discussion!
Nope. She only slugs when other killers would. She's not a precursor to Oni or Twins, because from the time she came out until now, nobody played her that way. She's only able to slug at the very end when survivors make a bunch of mistakes trying to be altruistic. If they don't, you don't get to slug. If you try and slug and they pick themselves up, you'll never get the chance again because then they'll be cautious about it the rest of the match. This applies to all killers, especially Hag.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193339#Comment_3193339
Daniel, anytime I see a post of yours you make me roll my eyes. Every post that you post is one where you make it perfectly clear that you are entirely biased in your opinion.
Let's take a look at what I'm talking about.
"Why can't solos and mid MMR just deal with it? We need them to deal with it, because they know it's not the killers that are broken, but the bad teammates they get from matchmaking."
Hmm... Yes, I think this is a great idea. Just leave Solos to rot, why does it matter if the game is heavily biased against them.
"You do realize those numbers are skewed by bad survivors? No way good survivors only escape 39% of the time."
That's an interesting take, but what about good killers. There's no way that good killers are only killing 61% of the time.
"What about it isn't true? It's the same thing with streaks. You can win all you want, but as soon as you face decent survivors, what can you do? You just lose. Survivors aren't required to be amazing to beat an amazing killer; they just have to be efficient on gens. It's not limited to 4-mans either. Solos have shown that…"
Or what about this absolute gem. Talking about how it doesn't matter how often you win as killer, because as soon as you lose that's proof of how the game is survivor sided. You're not at all biased, well maybe just a little.
You can psychoanalyze me all you want. I'm not gonna change tunes just because others wish it.
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@psionic said:
The buffs to killers were basically placebo effect
Absolutely.
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@sulaiman said:
Still, the kill rate is at 61% over all ranks. I agree that the patch changed nothing much at high mmr, but it put solo and mid/low mmr into deep trouble. If you have any idea how to adjust for high mmr without hurting solo and low mmr, it would be nice to hear your ideas.
Why can't solos and mid MMR just deal with it? We need them to deal with it, because they know it's not the killers that are broken, but the bad teammates they get from matchmaking. You must balance for the top, because however the game is played up there trickles down. Since people only win through tunneling and gen rushing at the top, that has trickled down. If killers could win with lots of chases and no gens defence, that would be way more interesting and would trickle down. There's nothing wrong with the base game at low MMR and in solo; it's the players.
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@konchok said:
I am going to say something and I want you to take it to heart.
You are not going to win every match. You are not entitled to any kills at all. Survivors being able to beat you, especially if they are playing well as you've described is intended.
Read that to yourself 10 times.
This is what we've been trying to change. Survivors being efficient on gens shouldn't automatically be a loss for killer. Why call it killer at this point when 3 and 4 people escape so often?
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192596#Comment_3192596
What? I don't really play Freddy much, so I can't comment, but if you are a good killer as Wraith you won't get even close to steam rolled.
Killer is in the strongest place it has ever been. Since the big patch killer has been so easy even at top MMR. I only go for 12 hooks, never slug the last guy, so there have been some games that have gotten away from me, but I can confidentely say that if I put pressure on a hook at the right time, didn't always leave the hook, I would have 95 percent plus win rate as killer since the big patch.
I've seen some comments of your suggesting that the survival rate is so low because survivors make too many mistakes. I'm going to counter with a "there are a HUGE number of killers absolutely boosted by camping and tunneling the first hook - a skilless 'strat' that is the strongest way to play at every mmr."
I'd say the reason those Freddy or Wraith players (is it you?) are getting steam rolled is because they aren't supposed to be playing at the mmr they are playing at.
The only thing hard about killer right now is playing for a 12 hook win.
I don't know where to begin. You think Wraith and Freddy can beat survivors, even under the best circumstances, that Nurse and Blight would lose to? Forget it. And you only go for 12 hooks and are 'confident' at killer? Sure you are. My point still stands that survivors' mistakes and misplays boosts the kills the killer gets, not killer being like "imma camp here" and suddenly they get 2 more kills just like that. You even admit that it's hard for killer to go for 12 hooks, which is entirely contradictory to what you said at the beginning, so I really don't know what your stance is. Is killer easy or is it hard? It can't be both.
A common theme I keep seeing with y'all is that you're survivor-centric in your thinking, in all the wrong ways. "Survivors can't do much against X strategy." Yes they can. "X shouldn't exist because it ruins the game for the survivors." By 'ruin' you mean make it harder to win. Survivors don't have to put in much work to get good results consistently. Killers have to put in tons of work and get failure consistently.
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How much harder do you want to make it?! Going against good survivors, you'll struggle to get a down because of holding forward, instadropped pallets, and no-mindgame loops. Killer still isn't in a pretty spot, and we all know this because you can jump on a low tier like Freddy or Wraith and get absolutely steam rolled, not even by amazing survivors but by just good enough survivors who happen to do gens quick.
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Good design, but awful animation wait time and ridiculous cooldowns stacked on top of each other make them miserable to play. Also, probably the killer that gets punished the hardest for a single miss with their power, literally allowing the survivors to kill the killer. The hitbox of Victor is also wildly inconsistent, like a Nurse blink hit.
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Killers have never been able to BM survivors more than survivors have been able to BM killers. In addition to that, survivors are easily more notorious for BMing the killer, with or without anything that comes close to justification.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192159#Comment_3192159
I was thinking of PR, in particular.
Aside from Pop as it's really 'progress' based and niche, now, I think anything over 10% is a bit oppressive.
10% is nice (in my eyes), as it's easy to understand (when the killer does x I lose ~10s) and decent regression.
Base regression is bad, yeah, but mini-pop kick isn't terrible - If I have the time/build to kick a gen, I look at it as a bonus instead of a reward.
11% is too much, huh? I think I see why we've gotten 1 reliable gen regression perk in like 3 years. I think you're missing that gen regression is supposed to significant. Otherwise, what's the point of bringing it? All gens were getting done against killers with pre-nerf Pop and Pain Res when they got value out of both of them basically every hook, and they got like 7 or 8 hooks. What makes you think that 2.5% regression, which takes 1.8 seconds to do, is gonna be good enough to be considered a "bonus"?
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The incentive should be used strictly for matchmaking purposes. We can't make exceptions, although if it was on killer all the time, which I'm surprised it's not, survivors would complain that it's never on them and the devs would cave to that. It's better to leave the incentives as is.
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@Raccoon said:
In real life odds (ie gambling) and every other game (ie Fighting games/LOL/OW/etc) a 40/60 (or 60/40) match up is pretty negligible, often able to swing in either direction due to player skill/luck/etc.
To address your other point, certain regression perks definitely need to have their percentages adjusted a bit, imo.
I'm not personally bothered, but knowing the math/effect on a match, I can see how it can be oppressive to other people.
I think the gen regression we have right now is inadequate and easily countered. Pop for certain doesn't need anymore damage done to it, knocking off 3% of a gen and garbage like that.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190283#Comment_3190283
You are eight, that you can't balance without taking the high skill gameplay into consideration, but neither can you ignore the low skill crowd.
In my opinion, this was the biggest fail of the big patch, ie one blanket solution for all skill levels.
At the higher skill levels the killer game was miserable before the patch and even survivors mains in this forums pitied killers and called then masochists. The high skill game felt the impact of the patch as everyone else, but as soon as day 2 pre-patch things already normalised and one week after the patch you got your pitched battles again and nearly wouldn't feel a difference to before, if not for the absence of cheeky DH dashes.
But the low skill ranks are still reeling from the impact and not everyone adapted. Add to this the high number of actually low-skill killers who suddenly got boosted and who can only prevail via camping and tunneling, and things look pretty dull down there.
I think that we need slightly different buffs and nerfs, or modifiers, for the different MMR brackets. Killers were always scary and unsurmountable at low skill, where players don't know how to loop, how to evade and especially how not to be scared by the gens own sounds and TBD occasional terror radius, but the higher in skill you go, the stronger are survivors due to experience, game sense and coordination.
Here's what people might be missing. Despite the game allegedly being killer sided at low level, it's not as if the killers aren't equally as noobish as the survivors they're playing against.
That's why I didn't like the Deathslinger nerf, the Pinhead nerf, the Wraith nerf, etc. Those killers were easily dealt with at high level, but they were complained about all the time at low and mid level by survivors who couldn't adapt. Now that they're nerfed, those same survivors are still struggling with them, and the killer players who were pushing those towards viability at the top are now in the dumps more than ever, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people abandoned those killers after that. I know I did.
The point is that most killer nerfs are ill advised, because they're always nerfing killers that good survivors can beat already, for the purpose of making them less of a noob crusher. The other thing is that, again, killers aren't playing that well with those characters at lower levels, and they reach nowhere near their full potential. So when a killer gets buffed, they're not all of a sudden gonna perform way better at low level, because at low level those killer players don't execute the full potential of their killer. Survivors will lose to them, sure, and lose hard, but that's because they're inefficient and don't know what they're doing. We must balance around people who know how to play the game.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190902#Comment_3190902
Never said that! Go back and read what i said and to i was responding to and why...
The poster said Hag gets punished by picking up survivors while another one "is on the hook" See that?
And "i" said you shouldn't be picking up survivors when someone is hooked because that's not smart or optimal and you need to learn Hag's strengths otherwise your just super casual with her and not competitive or you don't want to win. Situations my friend, situations! Read the whole thread next time.
It's only worth slugging when someone else on hook when the slugged person is near the hook, and this applies to all killers including Hag. Hooking doesn't do much for you, I'll admit, but the more you get the more survivors will be closer to dying and feel pressured.
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I've had it happen a few times in recent months, sometimes multiple times in one match. I'm afraid that it's still in the game, and that they've just taken out the scream, because I want to hear the scream, since only then can you tell when you were screwed out of a hit by 'connection issues'.
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Wesker becomes an M1 killer if he wants to use Starstruck or STBFL. That's why I don't use those perks on him. Ideally, you want to use your virulent bound every time, because it gives infection, and cuts out the time used to pick survivors up if you down them with it.
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If you notice your whole team is injured all the time for some reason, put it on.
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Everything about the swamp maps needs to be fixed.
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If we balance off of kill rates at all levels, which is what these most recent statistics are, we're also factoring in survivors who don't know they have to heal deep wound if they don't want to bleed out.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190730#Comment_3190730
Or... I could bring CoH and have everyone heal themselves. Or a medkit with add-ons?
I'm just saying Botany is slept on. I can't believe how few people use it. Everyone healing themselves is great, but if you look at Leader, Botany, Second Wind, Empathic Connection, Better Than New, you can save a lot of time on healing or even get a bonus, even when CoH is already present.
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190743#Comment_3190743
Hag doesn't work that way. Your suppose to slug with Hag! If a survivor is hooked and another survivor gets grabbed off a unhook attempt that survivor is to be thrown down immediately or if they get basic attacked and downed you leave them grounded.
This is a great strength of Hag's because she penalizes poor play and or bad decisions.
Hag is all about momentum breaking and shifting!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190749#Comment_3190749
lol you guys don't know how to use Hag at all! Refer to the post above! Hag slugs, that's how she wins, any other way and you really don't want to win with Hag and you should try another killer because shes not for you unless you understand her snd her better with her. Trust me shes one of my mains! )
So you don't hook at all with Hag? Why then has she never been bombarded with slugging/bleeding out complaints like Twins has?
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Notice they only talk about statistics when it furthers their narrative. I've never used kill rates to say whether a killer or killer in general was strong or weak, because it factors in all skill levels, and the people at the lower skill level, we should not be balancing around.
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She shouldn't be irritating to play against. 1-2 people mess up her traps and the others do gens. She can't win against that.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I find hag irritating to go against but that's a design issue, not a player issue. Her powers are just boring to go against, especially as most hag players just trap spam the hook area. But I'm blaming the killer, not the player for it so I'm not going to throw a fit in the chat about it.
You're saying she's boring but you just talk about camping hook or trap spamming hook, which only bad Hags do, and which any killer can do.
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She gets held back by SWF. It's just not fair to lose your entire mine field of traps from picking up 1 person.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Self Care is apparently very popular outside of EU/America. Surprised myself, honestly.
As for Botany... who would use that? CoH and medkits exist. The thing is outclassed. Even Desperate Measures would be better given that it lacks a downside.
Botany is 50% bonus healing speed, which is nothing to scoff at. You can use it with Self-Care, or you can use it with a medkit and Streetwise. Or heal your teammates for a change.
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Overcharge, Oppression, Unnerving Presence.
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It's made too appealing for them. Why would you go for multiple chases when you lose that way?
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346897/made-it-into-higher-mmr
People in high MMR don't complain about losing...
Um... yeah they do. Why wouldn't they? It's where the most powerful stuff in the game is played constantly.
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Welcome.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190285#Comment_3190285
Luckily enough I have only a single hatch escape challenge left in all my tomes. It the "escape the hatch 1 time while using a map", which is oddly specific, but maps arent exactly high on my item list, so I can waste a couple of those.
Don't overlook maps. They can show hexes and boon spots, show gens, and/or show hatch, show an exit, or make a marker with add-ons. The guys I play with say, "I didn't put my boon down til the last quarter of the game because I couldn't find a totem" or "I couldn't do any gens because I couldn't find them"... but they don't want to bring Deja Vu, Visionary, Small Game, or a map...
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190329#Comment_3190329
Oh yeah I get that, I'm just saying in that situation the hook counter in the bottom right counts every hook stage, so if a survivor goes from 1st to 2nd the hook counter goes up 1, so I was just saying the hook counter will end with a minimum of 6 if you get 2 kills
Yes, the hook counter says what it says. But in reality a hook, the process of hooking someone after a chase, represents exactly that. It's not the same as 1-hooking or 2-hooking where you didn't have to go for those chases, and still got the hook state/kill. So before the devs finally start looking at hooks for statistics, they need to get that hook counter fixed, because it literally lies about what has transpired in the match.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190058#Comment_3190058
That's just not true
What about it isn't true? It's the same thing with streaks. You can win all you want, but as soon as you face decent survivors, what can you do? You just lose. Survivors aren't required to be amazing to beat an amazing killer; they just have to be efficient on gens. It's not limited to 4-mans either. Solos have shown that they can have SWF-level gen speed and body blocking if they just play smart. The reason you can't just play smart as killer to do well is because there is no smart play at that point, even with camping or tunneling. If you camp or tunnel someone out, the others finish gens and they're out. If you don't camp or tunnel, you don't kill anyone, they hook bomb and body block, and they're all out. If you alternate between 2 people, you might get 2 kills, but you have to go straight from one to the other every time you hook, and it's still proving my point that you have to get someone out early. It may be that case that it's not so cut and dry, but in that case the survivors wouldn't be playing efficiently.
I feel that the idea that "killer is A okay now" is based off of the assumption that it's one of the top 2 killers, or a killer running full meta, doing well against survivors that aren't running full meta. But the flipside is basically never talked about, where the survivors are running a few meta perks or full meta perks, even though they don't have to in order to win, and are just dominating a killer who is bringing their best. It's not just bad killers that experience that. Killers who are in constant chase, pressure gens multiple times, bring good perks and add-ons, and make few or no mistakes also commonly experience defeat. Why is playing really well not enough for them to win? Why are they expected to play perfect when survivors are not expected to do that and still win anyway?
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190253#Comment_3190253
But if you one hooked them both, they're still alive right? So they're not killed
What? No. 2-hooking means you camped them to second phase so they die the next time they get hooked, or you hooked them once and then the next time they get hooked you camp them to death. 1-hooking means you camped them to second phase, and then kept camping until they died. It's 1 hook, but you never allowed them to get unhooked. That's what killers are having to do to gain momentum, because if the survivors are efficient there's no other way to get momentum.