danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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Yeah. Constant sweats as killer, constant DCers as survivor. This is a failure of the MMR system.
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@BorisDDAA said:
It's always the same narrative. "Killer mains have been oppressed by the evil survivor mains since the dawn of DBD".
Not since the dawn. The game was at its most broken for survivors back then, yes. But it's this... religion... of survivors never being wrong, and their demands for how they want killers to play never being too extreme/unreasonable, which has captured this game's community since like 2019, that killer players are oppressed by. It has only grown in strength since the "feelings over everything" and fake wholesome, group cyber bullies of the modern day have joined in. They want killers to play with skill, but when do that and they use strategies to win (tunneling, slugging), the survivors say they have no skill. They demand that killers play easy for them, and then shame them, win or lose, whether they play by that rulebook or not.
And the worst part is that they have a monopoly on power, not just in gameplay but in future balance decisions. There are design decisions that the devs could make that, from the pov of killers would be fair and balanced changes, which survivor mains would call "beyond killer sided" and "game ruining." But lesser changes have been made, very curtailed in the name of compromise, and they still called them those things. The biggest admittance of this culture's existence is when the devs talked about killers snowballing recently, in their 2v8 return stream, that they don't think a killer who's playing well should be able to do it, as if survivors aren't able to snowball as well. They'll be putting in a gen speed boost for survivors after someone gets hooked, which is literally, objectively punishing the killer for doing their job. That, combined with MMR forcing 2 bad survivors and 2 good ones against a killer, and hoping the game is broken enough to still give the survivors a win, clearly shows how the devs and the biased survivors want an orchestrated match result. A 50/50 no matter what.
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@TotemsCleanser said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837293#Comment_3837293
If you think this is year of the survivor let me tell you that you wouldn't last an hour in 2020 DBD. Let alone in the years before that. LOL.
I was there, and I struggled. Had I had the experience I have now, I would have done better. There have been better candidates for Year of the Survivor, like the one with non-stop killer nerfs to Wraith, Deathslinger, Nemesis, Twins, etc. But the game's current direction is "Let's nerf killers and buff survivors until the uncarryable solos can win." Except, they still lose. The plan has failed, but they're still going with it. And it feels like people are deluding themselves into thinking that killers nerfs are good. Take one of the killers right now, who you can't imagine being nerfed because of how mid they are, and nerf them, and suddenly you'll see people, "Oh yeah, that was long overdue." The name of the game is groupthink.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3837293#Comment_3837293
I don't think this is the case, at all.
Survivors are nowhere near as powerful as they used to be. And the tools at their disposal now really pale in comparison to what they used to have.
Some of them had to be nerfed, yes. Other did not, and got nerfed anyway. But it is a fact that survivors are weaker now.
I haven't seen any significant nerfs to survivor, in my time playing this game, that weren't warranted. In hindsight I'm actually an advocate of the quick healing meta we had, as long as killers could get quick downs as well. But because people wouldn't accept the latter, out of spite, we got neither. In the grand scheme of things, I think killers have been nerfed at least as much as survivors. Loops might not be 2 feet apart anymore, but they're still 5 feet apart. God pallets and windows are still in, and killer doesn't have adequate time to get survivors before 5 gens are done. So I don't care if survivors are weaker, because they still trump the killer. The only reason you don't see it every single match, is because MMR operates off of forced mismatches. 2 good survivors, 2 bad ones, 1 decent killer. If the killer tunnels weak links and they have no anti-tunnel, he wins. If he chases the strong ones, he loses. Every match feels like a coin flip, except survivors get to re-roll for extra flips if they have X perk or get X map RNG. Every perk/map you could say the same for with killer... has been nerfed. Why do 4000 hour+ killers struggle every match if this stuff wasn't the case?
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Not even 4 gen perks would've changed the outcome of that match. I'm pretty sure there were some hacks going on, but a legit team would probably be only 30 seconds slower than what we saw, just using gen speed builds. But this is why I say that even bad survivors can beat good killers now. Every time you have a favorable chase with them, they just go down in like 20 seconds. But it literally doesn't matter, as long as they know doing gens = win.
I know some people are gonna say, "He misplayed so much." What was he to do differently? Know exactly where they were at all times, and hope they didn't know how to loop? The match was over so fast, there's almost no room for hindsight. Or some would say he should've used a good build instead of a pure chase one. So, if I'm getting this right, a killer should lose 5 gens in ≤5 minutes because they choose one build instead of another? It's silly.
It's beyond parody, the level people expect killers to perform at. It's not even physically possible. All people seem to do is take the cases of clueless solos getting destroyed, and use that to justify killers experiencing the inverse. I agree with Tru3, that the game's never been this sweaty for killer, for worse results than ever. The only reason every single high level match, and even mid-level match, isn't like this one is because of MMR. The MMR is built to deceive you, because it forces bad survivors in with the good ones, against a killer who's actually trying.
People don't look at the grand scheme of things enough, or aren't humble enough to say, "We lost to that killer because our team sucked." I don't care if you say that everyone on the team sucked except you, because I've been there so I'll believe you on that. But it's not as if all these killers we never see at high level, Wraith, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, Knight, are suddenly just dominating survivors off their own ability alone. A good swf would beat them 9/10 if not 10/10 times, 4-man and all. I'm not gonna go into detail, but swf is the only group that reaps the benefit of all these survivor changes, because they've never been nerfed, and solo has (in that you get stuck with uncarryable teams). People framing killers winning too much as a problem, but never swf or solos winning too much, is how we got here.
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I think you're wasting your breath. I tried again recently, but nobody's gonna convince these people that the game is survivor sided. They'll use every confirmation bias, every bad analogy, every misconstruing tactic, just to reinforce the opposite reality. They just assume every killer is comp Nurse, every survivor is a poor helpless solo who can't even handle being chased, and that what the devs have been doing is "fixing the game" when the survivors get buffed and "ruining the game" when killers get theirs. I'd love to see someone argue that this isn't the case.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
game is only survivor sided if they are playing on equal grounds with the killer. that is rarely the case.
devs do a smart thing by keeping a compromise.
No! Don't you see how bad that is?! This is what I'd tell the devs and the people who support their direction. You're hiding the game's horrible imbalance behind forced mismatches. I just got done with several survivor matches that by every measure we should have won. But we didn't, because people gave up, were super inefficient, made the most incomprehensible possible decisions, and never pressured the killer adequately. Killer goes on a long chase? Never punish him with gen rush. Killer 3-gens? Never push it. Killer's playing Doctor, Legion, Wolf Dracula, anything weak like that? Perform as if they're a comp Nurse. It's almost like they want to lose.
You can't let this continue. Stop hiding bad balance behind MMR. Fix it, to where people are actually put against equal skilled opponents teammates, they'll clearly see the imbalance, and then fix what they say to fix. It's so simple.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
The game is incredibly survivor sided
Hatch, unbreakable, keys, doors, adrenaline.
What year is this?
2024. Year of the survivor.
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There's no way. He's one of the weakest. How can you never beat him? Are you just letting him body block you every time, and you're not reacting?
This is where we are. People think Wraith, Doctor, Freddy, Pig, Ghost Face, are just OP.
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I don't understand it either. I'm lost. Killer these past few years has just felt tough no matter what. Even in games where you were gonna win, you couldn't have possibly known it, so you stress out the entire time, the same as you would an easily perceivable loss. The bar has just been set so low for survivor, I don't even know if it can go lower! Put up against a 4-man SWF, you just have to accept the loss, right? But now survivors have so many free handouts in terms of hook duration, base BT/speed off hook, anti-camp, pallets you're forced to break, deceptively strong windows, strong tiles everywhere and near one another, quick gen speed, and second chance perks, that even mediocre survivors can beat you! I've seen it.
You have a really crappy start as killer, because the map is huge and you didn't bring exactly Lethal, so the survivors hid while simultaneously doing the 1-2 gens you didn't check. First chase you have, you have to leave after 2-3 pallets dropped, because there's still more and the survivor isn't bad enough to beat in chase. So you started the game out at like 2-3 gens done, and only 1-2 hooks at most to show for it. By the time you actually get any momentum rolling, the game's already been lost. Every time you're in a favorable position to chase, the survivors give out free hits, waste pallets, and get downed in like 30 seconds or less, but it doesn't matter because the gens are already done. They can throw the whole game multiple times via horrible plays, whether it be at the beginning, middle, or end, and still come back to beat you, through bailout perks or just simply because the killer can't be in 4 places at once. If you're not operating at 100% comp tourney efficiency, this could be you as killer, every match. It's just luck of the draw. You get good survivors, instant loss. Mediocre survivors, probably lose anyway. Baby survivors, most likely a win, but potentially a close match.
I've watched the most die-hard DBD killer mains deteriorate in their will to play the game, because of years of this abuse. It's easy to make a game of this genre frustrating for both sides. It's hard to make it frustrating for only 1 side, all of the time, no matter how good you get. If you don't think the best survivors could beat the best killer (not using Nurse, Blight, or Spirit) 9/10 times, you're sadly mistaken. The math of this game, which has been proven again and again, legit says that survivors should win every time. The only thing that's stopping it from happening is the bad MMR system. It hides how badly the game is balanced behind forced mismatches. And at this rate, I don't think that'll ever change. I've waited years and I'm tired.
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@SharonPancakes said:
"Somehow, people still claim that the game is "killer-sided” which I find absolutely insane. Do we play the same game?"
I guess we don't, I have (compared to solo survivor) a lot easier time winning matches playing killer. When I play as killer half of my wins feel free, and when I play as survivor it feels like 90 percent of my losses feel absolutely impossible to avoid (quitters, memes, just not doing anything teammates.) So yeah I've been playing sinice 2019 with over 5k hours. I'm not saying I'm great but I'm saying I personally feel like I don't deserve how much I lose playing solo and how much I win playing killer.
You just said it! It's because of bad teammates/quitters! Why would you chalk that up to the game being killer-sided?!
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Mayers.
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It's probably game breaking. Tunneling, which you have to do, now solved.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834816#Comment_3834816
I just pulled out a controller and his dashes are about just as easy as they are on PC ignoring exploits, most of which are patched. His dashes don't require any insane DPI or mouse only flick for your standard stuff. Unless there's a big difference between PC and console with controllers he's still just as good.
I still don't like that he's 110%. He feels SO SLOW anytime you're not rushing with your power. Like you're never gonna get a good survivor at a loop with his speed. That's why I don't think he's Nurse level like so many people think.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Every single Chucky runs Rat Poison which is one of the most stupidly no skill involved add ons in the game. Essentially the killer goes automatically to another level.
I don't think anything saves him. He's A tier on PC because the flicks, literal worst killer on console, and still doesn't do anything to top teams. Talk about problems stacking on top of each other.
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You hit the nail on the head, but I'd go further and say he's always felt like that in his dash attack, at least for console. PC players can just flick super hard and break into angles they were never meant to. The same goes for Oni and Blight, but nobody sees it. They just see, "Huh, these killers are super strong. Let's nerf them. Oh, they're still strong but fewer people are playing them." That's because you lost the console players. You're not locking the turn rate to its intended limit on PC, which makes these killers OP on there and little more than noob crushers on console. To me, it's so obvious.
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I don't think that would be better for both sides. You can't solve the problems of the game by trying to balance the kill/escape rate. That's like... I can't even find a comparison to make. That's how bad it is.
I really don't put much stock into these stats. But if killers lost a whole 5% of kills, they'd be leaving like never before. Nobody wants to play the control roll where they have no control. That's what (little more than) 50% kill rate sounds like. Survivors are supposed to be running around, scared for their lives, as their players usually are. But in high level matches, with 4 survivors playing good instead of just 1-2, the killer's lucky to get 2-4 hooks sometimes. That's not good. It's never been this hard, only to still get such pitiful results.
And the situation just keeps getting ignored, because MMR is not being brought into the discussion, because some are convinced that it either needs to go, or that it's perfect as is. It needs to stay, and it needs lots of work. The beginning of MMR was the closest to perfect it got, excepting the solely kill/escape method of gaining/losing. Back then, you got put with teammates and opponents of equal skill. Who cares if you had to wait a minute to join a lobby? The devs could actually balance off what they saw, because they got to see even playing fields for the first time. But after that, MMR just became stupid. Going back to random matchmaking, or worse, now forced mismatches, makes it impossible to balance off anything, because you're getting unbelievably skewed data and nobody knows ######### is going on. Not the devs, not the killers, not the solos. SWF's doing fine, but then again the sky is blue.
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I usually respond with BG, after a game like that. Don't need to go into specifics with them, but hopefully allude to the fact that I had no control in the match and got rolled, after not even playing bad. Before anyone starts, results do not equate to performance.
A more appropriate GG would be when both sides had fun/experience. At least some back and forth, you know. Not 1 side getting destroyed the whole time. This is the only game of the genre where it's accepted as normal to let the 1 (in the 1v4) experience that. Predator, you can take pot shots at soldiers until they're weak enough to kill. Klowns, both sides are teams, so there could be a swing either way at any point. Friday (RIP soon), you can focus down the weak teammates and guard multiple objectives at the same time (relatively).
So I don't knock people for saying GG. It just isn't a GG a lot of the time. And that goes for survivor matches as well, but that's another story.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834750#Comment_3834750
So basically you're likely exaggerating and using your experiences to try to disprove any that disagree with you. If you played that much the chances of you not encountering equally (or more) skilled survivors is near impossible. If that is honestly your experience, I'm sure most players would absolutely love to get your matches.
I sure would. Matches where I can just do whatever and 4k? That'd be a big break for me. The only issue is I don't think that's possible, because I've never been able to "take it easy" as killer (an oxymoron), even with the old ranking system (maybe because I was still learning).
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Come on. Who gets tired of winning? And what's funny, I never hear this from survivors. "Just too tired of winning! Please nerf us!" It's just not something that someone in their right mind would say. Apply it to any other multiplayer game.
I tell you what you should do. You should seek out a tough SWF to custom match with. Maybe they'll make you fight for that 4k. Most likely they'll do a little bit more. But don't take my word for it. Do it.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3830179#Comment_3830179
I just assumed you would be one of the people who adamantly believe Huntress is A or S Tier like everyone else on these forums tend to believe. So I was trying to use it as an example of a “strong” killer being asked for buffs but I guess I was mistaken.
I’ve never played against teams that have consistently wiped out my traps so I guess I can’t really say. But every time I play her it’s a 4k blowout so that’s where I get my idea from.
I haven't played a ton of Hag, but I played her a bunch back in day, and again a while back, and my mind has not been changed: she is extremely stressful to play. It's like having your traps disarmed as Trapper, but 2-3 at a time instead of just 1, and you're 110%, so what are you gonna do? Walk over and replace them?
In terms of playing vs survivors who know how to counter her and vs those who don't, she has the biggest difference in power in the whole game. Nobody knows what they're doing? 4k in 5 minutes or less. Everybody knows what they're doing? You would struggle to even get a hook with her.
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Same as it's been. Nurse/Blight: S tier. Everyone else: irrelevant tier.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Killers were already slugging but now the "mask is off" and now they are just shameless about it.
Now we just have to be humped while survivor #3 dies and we have to like it
That's just buzzwords and speculation.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834560#Comment_3834560
Both of those kind of suck… Basekit Dead Hard and basekit Sole Survivor please! lol
Therein lies the insanely high standard of power. You're not satisfied with free self-pickup and killer stun? Really?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834420#Comment_3834420
Does this strike the killer groups as problematic? Is there any desire to get hooks appealing again? Are killers fine with 'slug > hooks?'
I would assume not. The game is not fully functioning as designed. Side options are turning out more appealing than the primary goal BHVR clearly wants which is hooks. I sincerely hope they get their game together. Its so cattywompus at the moment.
It most certainly does. We called this. We called that if you keep ruining perks that reward hooks (Pop, Pain Res), reward injuring (Thana, Sloppy), and reward chasing (STBFL), what else is killer to do? We'll do what we need to win, but this is simply not enjoyable for either side, and it was entirely preventable!
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@ErebusSurge said:
silly argument.
No one said it didn’t exist before, they said it happens more often.
and the reason killers get significant benefits in both perks, powers addons and Basel it is because most killers are bad and the game is built to ensure killers succeed more. So to make up for how bad killers are they get every boost going.slugging for 4k is a failed skill check. If you can’t win without slugging that’s a killer problem because it is so easy to get a 4k without trying. (I play 70% as killer btw)
Then you haven't played enough killer. You think most killers are bad, and that's why they're supposedly overpowered (by getting entire unique powers and add-ons!). But you haven't visualized what's gone on in recent years. It's not that killers have been getting that much stronger. It's that you're correct on your other point, that the game is built to make killers win more. How does the game do this? Not through balance, but through matchmaking.
It used to be, through MMR, that killers and survivors would go against opponents and have teammates of equal skill/hours. But at the top level, survivors dominated almost every killer, which led to killers leaving or switching roles. Then the next lowest skill level of killers started getting put against those same survivors to fill the void (to not have such long queue times), and they got fed up and quit/switched too. Then the next level down, then the next level down, etc. I used to think that was it, that all killers were just bad now, but I forgot that within each level of killers leaving, there were a resilient elite few who stayed to play killer. So actually, the average killer player is pretty tough.
On the other hand, survivors, new and old, still have to be put with these killers. So while top level still plays out as usual (killer getting stomped), the mid and bottom levels have almost morphed into being 1 and the same, because here's the average match at that MMR: 2 good survivors, 2 bad survivors, 1 decent killer. The killer tunnels the 2 bad survivors out and gets a win, or the killer accidentally chases the good survivors and loses. That's all it is, a coin flip. And the devs, rather than fixing the MMR's forced mismatching of players, keep buffing those uncarryable teammates you keep seeing in the hopes that they'll be able to beat any killer. They won't. But they will keep getting put in your matches, and keep sabotaging your team.
Killers are having to play harder than ever to win, and we can say the same of solo queue, except for killers it's a balance issue, and for survivors it's a matchmaking issue. That's 1 reason I have an objection to your point on slugging, because killers have to do it vs certain teams, and can't take the chance that your random solo team isn't one of them, because if they guess wrong, they've lost. Reason number 2 is that you're asking killers to play worse in order to supposedly show more skilled gameplay (chases), the equivalent of which would be asking survivors "Don't do the generators fast. Do random chests and totems first." to give the killer more skilled gameplay (looping). It sounds like, on both ends, the issue is that gens are too fast. So it's easy to get a 4k every time "without trying," assuming you have survivors who don't do gens.
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@smurf said:
I've seen several posts like this lately, but I think there are actually players experiencing negative impacts on their experience in the game as a result of the update.
The finisher mori gives a reward for getting to a 4k, and doesn't care about the methods used to get it. Personally, my matches recently have had a much higher incidence of multiple negative playstyles in the time since the update. I've seen much more tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k, to such an extent that I'm finding it less rewarding to play the game now and have found myself having days when I don't even feel like playing a match.
My suspicion is that not everyone is coming here and making things up. I really enjoy the game and would like to see the experience stay good, but so far recently whenever I play a few survivor matches, I usually wonder why I started up the game.
We're not saying they're making things up. They're complaining about stuff that they either can't change, or could change with more experience, which they refuse to wait for. The mori 'reward' is a pretty animation which will soon fall out of style to prioritize, except among the newest players, who btw are probably the same group complaining about this issue. I'd like to see the devs fix the game, because the miserable survivor matches come more from bad, forced matchups, rather than killer being OP. It's as the original poster said. If survivors could learn in-game how to play, and similarly skilled/hour'd players got put against each other, it would reveal and fix a whole lot.
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I don't think all that's happening in 1 match. Did a killer really tunnel you, without a single gen being done, and then you got BM'd on the ground for minutes, without the killer losing any additional gens?
You've got some points though. Gates should be getting opened nearly every time, if survivors are playing well. There's no reason to give up as survivor, and I'm pretty sure if they didn't they'd escape a lot more. There needs to be harsher penalties for constant DCers, if not put them in their own queue. Killers are gonna sweat. The only way to combat that is to sweat yourself. I don't buy a lot of cosmetics myself, because they're just so dang expensive, no matter the currency.
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I always appreciate someone doing the math on the game. This proves the devs "right," but it doesn't mean it's a good goal to set. Even if the 60% kill rate is true, that still means that killer gets little more than a draw most of the time. And possibly, if we look at all match combinations that could lead to that average, a killer could draw like 80% of their matches, and still "win more than the lose" to get that 60%. That, to me, doesn't seem like a good outlook on the role, and doesn't encourage anyone to play it. I know survivors must escape as well sometimes, but you are a "killer," not a "chaser" or a "pallet breaker."
The kill rate and escape rate doesn't mean anything as long as the game is balanced around skilled play, but that's a separate discussion.
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Well, that's where the conversation is at. There's a lot to complain about. Oftentimes, dumb stuff gets complained about which has no place getting complained about. But all it takes is more argument in good faith to fix the culture on here.
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As Demogorgon, it's best for you to equip Black Heart and point-blank survivors with Shred so you recover faster (faster than a basic attack, I believe), but if the survivors are just too good at dodging, just M1, because the massive stun from missing is not worth it. And don't use portals on a big map. Just tunnel, and then maybe if you're already winning, start using them. Lastly, going up or down elevations (stairs or drop offs) while using Shred actually makes you go further, making it a good choice for closing distance faster/mobility.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832180#Comment_3832180
This is very solid advise and so true, BUT in the case of bully SWFs you can bet that the one who escapes will rub it in in the most devious and painful way, claiming that the killer didn't win at all, because they escaped yadda yadda yadda.
Most of the time I can just ignore such non-sense, but not gonna lie, some games that survivor made your life SO hard and got under your skin and seeing them escape and mock you can be pretty painful, even if you are mostly levelheaded, BUT in the end, the best is just to try to ignore it and don't let it affect you.
That's another reason I don't like the mechanic. But I don't think it's going away anytime soon.
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@AssortedSorting said:
Survivors by design constraints of the game don’t get to loop the Killer for 5 gens unless the Killer is really, really bad. (Killers are faster than survivors, window block, bloodlust, depletion of chase resources). Nor can they all expect to escape even if they do fairly well.
Killer by design constraints of the game isn’t guaranteed a 4K even if they do exceptionally well.
I think this is a decent balance. (Though I do find the hatch experience itself rather lacking in player interaction).
Be that as it may, I think if you take the killer on a 2 gen chase, which can be as easy as looping shack til pallet drop and 1-2 filler pallet drops, that's a game-losing chase for pretty much anyone bar Nurse/Blight. But it's unfortunate that you rarely see that, even as a really good survivor player, because MMR shoehorns bad teammates into your match. Meaning, the killer can be half-decent at best and still beat you, because it's supposed to be a 4v1, and it was forced into a 2v1. MMR only works well enough so that the highest caliber of killers get put with the highest of survivor teams, which is 90% of the time a loss by default for anyone not Nurse/Blight. That causes killers to quit or switch role, forcing those overpowered survivor teams to go against less and less experienced killers, and makes MMR work that much harder to create solo queue teams which are constructed to fail. I don't think the devs have realized what they've created with that.
Killers not getting a 4k after beating the whole team, I can live with. I'd just hope that after the game's major balance issues get sorted, and especially the MMR, that hatch would be addressed. In a vacuum, it is kind of dumb that the survivors lost, but through luck of the draw, whoever is the last standing has a random insta-escape button spawn on the ground.
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@PreorderBonus said:
DBD was never intended to be a stealth game. Even back in the day, killers had perks like Spies from the Shadows and Whispers to counter sneaky survivors and encourage chasing. Over time, the game evolved, and now everyone plays with ten times the efficiency they used to, making "general location" perks like Whispers far less effective (even though Whispers itself was never changed). This led to the addition of more aura perks. There could be 200 aura perks, but a killer can still only equip four, so I'm not sure why it's an issue. Plus, only a few aura perks are even that useful, and figuring out which one the killer has is part of gameplay
That's the problem with a lot of these posts. They assume that killers have every aura perk in the game on. You wouldn't even run more than 2 if you were smart; there's so many better options to choose from. And sure, killer complain about perks that aren't there, like DS, like Unbreakable, because there's so much to lose by getting hit by those, so you have respect it. What are survivors losing by being seen? They can still loop, and if survivors simply cannot loop, well then... we don't care. The game should be balanced around people who know how to play. This balancing strategy of prioritizing casuals over everything, and forcing draw games, is a death sentence for this game.
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@sinkra said:
Adrenaline, Boil Over and Distortion nerfs were the last straw for me. Distortion has one single charge while killers get to wall hack all game with constant aura reading JFL. You can't even hide anymore in a game that was based on stealth. Survivors are just supposed to be playthings for a killer's ego and not allowed to have counterplay?
These devs don't understand how to make a game fun. I remember an interview with a dev in another game who said the aim should be to make all abilities feel powerful, because it's FUN and balance each other out. Gutting any useful perk to the point no one with any sense would take it is effectively removing it from the game.
And I must insist, the problem with the scenario you're laying out is that you assume that the killer is all-seeing. Most of my killer builds include 0-1 aura perks, because there's simply better stuff to use. The game has moved far beyond hide and seek; it's looping that shows skill and gets wins. But ironically, you still can play stealthy. Distortion is not the end-all be-all stealth perk. Shadowstep is infinite aura hiding (within range) for the whole team, Self-Preservation to hide scratch marks and sounds when a nearby teammate gets hit (helps against slugging), and Quick & Quiet/Dance With Me to disappear after a quick vault. Aura hiding isn't all there is to stealth. The chances that the killer's seeing your aura mid-chase, which is where it's most important, is pretty low. I haven't even tried that reworked Predator perk. Shows how excited the average killer player is for supposed "crazy killer perk buffs!" So it's not that survivors are the killer's playthings, boosting their ego. In fact, once you learn the game, and assuming you've got equally good teammates, it's quite the opposite when you're survivor.
The devs don't know what they're doing. On that, we agree. But killer's issue is that the game is imbalanced for him, which you don't see because matchmaking forces subpar survivors into many matches, which ties into survivor's issue. You can be as good as you want as survivor, but it oftentimes doesn't count for anything, because you've got 2-3 bad teammates destroying any momentum that you had. The killer may not even be that good, but because the devs have decided to hide bad balance behind forced mismatches, you pay the bill. That means losing matches you have no place losing, exactly the same feeling you get when playing killer. You don't have really good survivors as killer all the time, but when you go against them, no matter how good you are, you just lose. 1 DS, 1 chase at shack or a jungle gym where you don't get the pallet down, 1 body block, 1 gen done in your face when you were about to Pop it. Any one of these is game-ending for the killer. You just don't see it in solo, because your teammates are almost completely random skill levels.
In terms of "gutting" useful survivor perks, I don't see it. You could nerf the top 10 survivor meta perks (except Windows and Deja Vu, because they're 100% fair), and survivors would still have plenty useful stuff to work with. Any Means to reset dropped pallets is useful, as is Soul Guard for protection after a pick-up. It's just that the meta perks are so easy to activate and so insane in their effects.
Think about it: Get off hook, 80 seconds of an extra health state and silence, or 60 seconds to stun a killer and full stop their momentum. Killer downs all 4 survivors in 45 seconds, free self pick-up. All gens get done, move almost the same speed as the killer. OTR, DS, Unbreakable, Hope. You can run all 4 of those effects at once. Compared to killers meta perks: You see survivors a few seconds after hook. Block some gens at the start, until you down 1 person. Knock 25% off 1 gen, only if you use a special hook which is randomly placed, and is 1 use per survivor. After hooking a survivor, knock 20% off current* progress, which is usually 2% off a 10% done gen. Big whoop.
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@GoingToGetDwight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834135#Comment_3834135
Might as well move hatch then sense all you killers will be doing that either way make us run around with our heads chopped off around the map till you finally catch us.
No. You give yourself and your teammate no hope. I've had matches where it was a 3v1 super early, or it was a 2v1 with like 2 gens left, and we got all the gens done. Might not have both escaped, or even one of us, but if the gens get done that means there's a chance. All us killers play to the bitter end as well, because of that chance of winning.
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I don't see it. The killer did this before.
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@イエローミント said:
Wouldn't it be better if the killer won as soon as the hatch is closed? The End Game Collapse after the hatch is closed always feels like wasted time.
Because survivors need yet another chance to escape, so the exits get powered for free. Or, if the gens have already been done and then there's 1 person left, the killer has to patrol 2 exits AND hatch.
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@DeBecker said:
Why are killers so inclined to get their 4k?
Because they beat all 4 survivors, not just 3. Them doing gens in just enough time to get 1 out through gates is different. But with hatch, 5 gens could be left, and 1 still escapes. That's called a forced outcome. Imagine if instead, the killer could find and step on a certain spot in a map, and a survivor automatically gets sacrificed. That's basically what hatch is.
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@Autharia said:
Right now Gen time is at its longest its ever been so games longer.
And you're sure that has nothing to do with the quality of your team? There were many games I could have won, or had the gens done way faster, had my teammates been playing half as well collectively as I had been individually. Take the killer on 5-10 gens worth of chase? Most likely they still don't get done. So it's matchmaking that needs looking at right now, not "the slow gens speed" as everyone says.
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@Ayodam said:
Can you blame those survivors? Clowns play in a usual way that’s very nasty. I rush games against them too. And when I play Clown I’m very nasty as well. His appearance and power sort of demands it.
You're attributing "nasty" to how people normally play the game. It's like a killer not only getting mad at survivors healing fast or doing good in chase, but also saying, "That's so horrible, what you're doing to me! Play easier for me!"
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Because they're deluded into thinking that the strategy still works. And against bad survivors, it always will. But against good survivors, it never has. Even a moderate amount of game knowledge and strategy would tell you that all you have to do, to break a 3-gen, is to push the 2 furthest gens and not get downed. Just undo the regression event, hold W at the first sight/sound of the killer, and soon they won't be kickable anymore. Then they killer's screwed. It's always been like this, excepting the gen blocking mechanic. But the game is balanced around people who 1) have had their mind blown by what I just described, or 2) they still don't get it and never will. So go ahead and keep forcing that game balance strategy, and see how to works out.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3833625#Comment_3833625
W post. I literally said aura reading was gonna end up being OP once they nerfed the one perk survivors had to combat full aura builds.
It's not, and it never will be. Just had a match where survivors were revealed like the entire time through Weave Attunement. It does not mean you automatically catch them. If we're talking about survivors who know how to play, they couldn't care less about having their aura seen. The ones complaining about that are the ones who can't last 20 seconds in chase, or who don't play killer.
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@Fthat said:
Why not just show the survivors auras the whole game. This game is unplayable as a solo survivor now with all the exposure perks. No more money will be wasted until it is balanced back out. You rarely have a chance to save anyone so everyone just hides and waits to be last or worst -stops playing. Cashless cow. Moooooo
Tired of hearing this exaggerated crap. The killer doesn't see you all game at base. Even if he does so through perks, what's it to ya? Can't take a chase? Is the deciding factor, of whether you live or die, the mere idea of the killer seeing you?
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
OP, please take a few minutes to cool off and think about what you're saying before you come onto the forums to demand that people who are playing within the rules of the game be banned. Even better, try playing killer yourself so you can get some perspective. I guarantee that you will run into some survivor squads playing sweaty AF and abusing every possible thing they can to win and they'll stomp you and you'll probably be frustrated by that. But then maybe you will realize that players on both sides try hard to win, and they are entitled to do so. It's just a game - improve, learn, enjoy your wins and let it go when you lose.
Definitely needs to cool off because you know what they said is an exaggeration of what they've seen. If a killer won at 5 gens, they didn't have to tunnel to do that, and in fact it had nothing to do with them and everything to do with the survivors not putting together ANY amount of pressure. Slugging, too. Why did the killer get 3 downs in under a minute? Do the survivors even loop, or like look behind them at all? Sounds like 1 side playing sweaty is being counted as a crime, while the other being expected to play equally sweaty is somehow unreasonable.
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They're already punished, by smart survivor players. Just do what they do.
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I don't see it. Maps are still strong with plenty of pallets and windows to run to.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832567#Comment_3832567
All can use it but maybe nurse. Cause every power but hers has spots its better to chase then use the power. Bloodlust 1 is more then enough to get a hit 99% of the time.
And yet there's loops where Bloodlust 3 + PWYF + Coup won't get you the hit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Im not against the idea, though even with 8 kicks max we'll likely still see stacked gen slowdown builds every game again.
We do, and they still lose to good survivors. Just because 10 noob teams lose to those builds doesn't mean it's a good build.