cogsturning
cogsturning
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So this is, what, 7 escapes for you out of 10? Tragic.
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@Rudjohns said:
I'm struggling to play survivor
Brother there ain't no way. Let me see your gameplay footage.
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I don't run regression perks as killer and my 30 day KR is 70%. And I'm not even good. I'm much, much more unhappy with my survivor experience. It's not so much about escape rate as enjoyment and agency. What I want my matches to look like is this:
Close, tight, down to the wire, anything might happen.
But what I often get is this:
Hopeless, depressing, miserable matches where the killer ignores everyone but their unfortunate tunnel target and you have to worry if you'll be the next one.
Survivors have no way to make me feel this way as killer. I always have agency and I can win even when it's going horrible for me. As survivor, we're just doomed, often from the get-go.
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@Mushwin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/458243/28-days-later-in-dbd
The 28 days/weeks/years is NOT a zombie movie. Depends which one you would wish to see in the game as 28 years later sucked big time. It is a rage virus, they vomit up blood, get infected and go on a rage destructive path, they do not go for brains, eat people, move slow and do not go for brains, those in 28 days etc later are NOT corpses etc. Same as world war Z, again they are NOT zombies.
Though you are right, they aren't zombies (it's just easier to call them such), what you're defining is the George Romero zombie, and the concept did not begin or end with him. The modern concept comes from folk traditions adapted to fiction. People think voodoo when they think zombie origins but the Tibetan ro-lang is where much of zombie fiction gets its ideas. A corpse possessed by a demon will infect others through touch. A second type, brought about through necromancy, has a particular weak spot, which varies by type.Most people consider the infected humans of Resident Evil to be zombies yet they aren't undead. Re-animator features corpses reanimated through scientific means and that can be fully cognizant. Even Frankenstain's creation is a sort of zombie. If the rules are slow, eat brains, and undead, that's basically nothing. That doesn't even fit the traditional zombie.
Incidentally, Romero was heavily inspired by Richard Matheson's post apocalyptic I Am Legend, which is about vampirism as a virus, so concepts kinda blend and change over time. Romero rules are limited in their application. The concept has gone well beyond him.
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Both are lore accurate for Wesker. So both.
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They could do 28 Years Later for a more recent tie-in. That big zombie could work. The blonde wig track suit crew would make a good Legion skin to.
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I agree. Axe the auto aim. Make the mushrooms like First Aid sprays, where you have to stand still and there's kiler instinct but the recovery is instant. At the very least, half the time they take to work.
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It's back to the Sinister Grace lobby and I am sad. Was nice while it lasted.
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@Kev19915 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011921#Comment_4011921
same, I did complete them but it was not fun at all. I am unhappy. The 111 days is probably because they are doing a health update in November.
I finished like two days before the end. At the least, I would like some decent reward in place for grinding all that out.
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I guess they increased the time instead of lowering the numbers. The completist in me is weeping though. I don't want to grind for 2750 hooks again.
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All the killers ones are meh. The Trickster one looks better in the art and trailers. The Dredge and Spirit ones just look sloppy.
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The Milestones are there, guys. Close the game and reopen it and they appear.
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I like the stained glass theme. I'll be using several of these cosmetics (though the survivors fared better than the killers) and other trinkets. That being said, I wouldn't have unlocked it if I hadn't had auric cells to recycle from the last one. The free track is a genuine joke. It's also wild the Claudette head just wasn't available in time, so this feels a bit half baked.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011474#Comment_4011474
Here's another scenario. I once went against a Huntress with Iri Head hatchets. Somehow all three teammates got slugged in the same tile. Feng Min was hooked, but Jill and Carlos continued to lay there, not moving at all. With Kindred, I could see Huntress standing there camping. She had no reason to leave the hook as long as the slugs stayed there. I hid, praying to the gods that the people on the ground would crawl away, but nope. So there was no way I could make a safe save, knowing that the Huntress could insta-down me with her Iri Head. I even considered letting that happen so we could all abandon, but my dumb arse stuck it out anyway. Only when Min died on hook did the two slugs finally start to move…towards the basement. Huntress eventually found me and gave me the signal to pick them up, so I did. And then they went into a locker and DC'd. I'm just like, "Okay then…" Should I have been punished for "ratting" in that situation?
In a similar scenario, I had three teammates all get slugged in shack in early game. Like your case, none moved, and they all stayed around the basement. I finished our one and only gen and walked over to the killler to make an appeal. It failed. Should I get a suicide penalty for that?
I've also had several recent killer matches where the survivor team failed to read my perks properly and all were downed a minute or so into the match. If people are already accruing hidden penalities for dying too fast because they screwed up, I don't want to cause that. And I definitely don't want it to get worse.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011351#Comment_4011351
I promise you, if the devs are smart and work with competent people within the dbd community they can make everything bar soft griefing able to penalized.
If people over 50 hours of game time are overall going down in less than 15 seconds reputedly, suspension. This negates griefing by walking up to the killer or suicidal body blocking while protecting new players. It would record that behavior over many games as to not hurt people having a funny interaction with the killer every 5 games. Same with afking, the system can be tuned to after a player has a decent chunk of time for them not to afk under hook without suspension. Luck offerings can be joutright removed. There are ways and they are truly necessary for this games long term health.
As others have said, survivors griefing each other actually leads to a repetitious cycle of survivors getting more frustrated. You can address the issues but the mentality will remain, one that's been around for a decade. With the communities current mind set you could outright remove tunneling, camping, slugging, every S tier killer and add the ability for survivors to ban 1 killer each, there would still be a 15%+ dc/suicide rate. So both things need to be addressed.
Suicide attempts in my matches aren't that fast. People getting downed in 15s are likely genuine AFKs who got nabbed by a dishonorable killer using Lethal and taking the free hook. Being away from your screen for a few seconds isn't throwing the match and doesn't need that sort of penalty, even if it's chronic. People suicide out when they get frustrated or feel the match (or rather, their own escape) is lost. Is there a point when it's okay to give up?
This is from one of my matches a couple hours ago:
This Mikalea stood or tbagged by a hook three or four times while I ignored her. This was the last time. Match was clearly over. So is this one fine or no? Is it okay at this point but not at the point a gen back with an additional living teammate?
Had this Nancy a few days ago:
Every time she saw me she got off her gen and chased me to die. She spent more time chasing me than I spent chasing my opponents. It was so annoying I kept becoming bats just to get away from her and her pain noises. This match was obviously a stomp, and with a DC too. Are they just supposed to run in circles and be toyed with until the end or is it okay to just give up sometimes? Like, where's the line between griefing and admitting defeat? And who determines it? Will it be based around time? On the ratio of gens complete vs amount of living teammates? When she wasn't tormenting me this Nancy at least worked gens, while the Vee dying in the background ratted. Details matter. Motivations are complex. You think a company who can't release a chapter without a random beam on the loading screen or a god-sized tambourine will be able to make anything remotely nuanced in this regard? There have been a number of people in the forum saying--just recently--that they've had grade reductions for being killed too fast. There's already a system and it's flawed. We dont need another one penalizing the wrong thing and ignoring the real problems.
And who is getting downed on purpose every 5 games? Who are these trolls that I've never, ever seen? All I've seen close to that is memeing.
If you want to address both genuine gameplay issues and random disgruntledness then lets address both, but efforts to improve the survivor experience have been routinely taken out back and shot. And, as I said previously, this seems to be a heavily survivor-sided issue, yet people insist it's just random reasons and minor inconveniences despite that being pure assumption, and despite killler DCs being drastically less common.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011297#Comment_4011297
"We're loosening penalties" people will go absolutely feral and DC en masse
You've contradicted your own points repeatedly so far, as @tes has already pointed out but this one is easily the most egregious. You've said that they can't (in the hypothetical scenario) loosen the DC penalities because everyone will just DC. Which is the exact thing that is literally happening right now because they lowered the DC penalties several patches back. If loosening a penalty would encourage DCing, then why can you not accept that raising it would discourage it? This is straight doublethink.
The DCing is happening because there's no proper penalty. That's it. Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason. This huge wave of DCing started when they dropped the penalties. Penalise them properly again and it will stop. All of this talk of "longstanding frustrations" or whatever else is just an intentional attempt to muddy the waters and make them seem deep, when it's actually incredibly simple. Low/no penalties = DCs. Penalties = No DCs. That's it.
This point is just moronic, and I don't think you really mean it. Of course it matters what causes it. Of course it matters why people are frustrated. Whether or not you think it's justified is down to personal opinion at the end of the day, but saying it doesn't matter why is just silly.
I wholeheartedly stand by what I said. I do not care whatsoever about the cause of it. The feelings of people who consistently abandon their teammates in a PvP game do not matter at all to me. I literally don't think it's worth listening to anything they have to say about the game because they're going out of their way to cause it immense harm. These players don't get to do everything they can to sabotage a role and in the same breath complain about how bad the role is. You can call me moronic for that but it doesn't change my opinion.
From some of your other comments it sounds like you don't actually play the game anymore. And with that context, your point makes more sense because you don't actually have to deal with the behaviour that you're defending. And that is how this comes across to me. There's nothing that could reasonably qualify "I am against further punishment" when it comes to repeated DCing for me. The end of your sentence does not justify the start and only serves to enable bad behaviour IMO.
Of course you're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a harmful one. But I'm sure you'd say the same thing about mine so I guess we're at an impasse.
Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason.
It will just change forms if the penalities tighten. You said you have a DC about every third match. That's about how often someone tries to suicide out of my killler matches. I have daily matches where a survivor chases ne instead of me chasing them. I have locker spams, pallet slams, AFKing under hook, luck-offering unhooking into second stage, and suicidal body blocking. That's penalty-free in terms of automatic detection, as long as they don't die too fast. If people want to leave, they'll find a way.
Why is addressing that there's an issue on the survivor end of this game so hard?
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011233#Comment_4011233
Not sure why you got down voted, but that's exactly how I felt. I wish the devs actually would play their game, or extensively watch good survivors and killers play it if they aren't going to. I would assume it takes a good two weeks at least with the entire community ( not just the select few of ptb) playing to see if something is terrible or not to point were you have to completely nuke it. After the Ptb they should've released a dialed back version with maybe one change at a time or maybe messed with the values of everything a bit. The fact they just scrap something after a select few get to try it out on the Ptb is crazy to me. Point and case the krasue they "nerfed" her but didn't really address the places that were the most problematic, they didn't completely nuke her they just dialed a few of the wrong things back. They should've focused on cool downs after changing forms and after spitting etc another topic for another day though lol
The fact that they must have worked on that for months and months and didn't even let it get a proper testing was crazy business. Because why? Streamers? Killer tears on social media? It was a lot at once, for sure, and they could have just started with the 90s slug recovery and the Elusive, but just try something, anything, of these ideas.
Krasue is a great example though. She also only got two days of ptb testing, people said the head control was a little clunky, so they buffed the holy hell out of her. Quite the stark contrast.
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Plague because she hilarious. Dracula because WOLF.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010874#Comment_4010874
Depends on your MMR. My MMR is at the point where most of my matches are against mediocre killers trying to boost their kill rates with Kaneki and Krasue along with the occasional good Blight or Nurse, but I'm a high (not top) MMR mediocre survivor who can only do well against a good killer when the entire team is coordinated (and I play solo, so that's basically never).
I'd imagine things get rough if you're good enough to get to a higher MMR than that.
And if the tunneling changes go through… well, it's clear that the last couple of killers were designed for nu-DBD where playing the same way every single game is mandatory, but the majority of the roster will suffer, and past a certain point in MMR, you'll see like three killers all the time (even more than you already do).
I hear this, but then I see people post their ERs and most are the same as mine, close to the target range of 40%. Only so many people are in upper MMR. I play with friends of varying skill so I probably see more than one MMR bracket. Yet I rarely see either Blight or Nurse. I also rarely see Kaneki. I think I've played against five or so Krasues, a super low number for a new killelr on my end. I really don't see anyone all the time except maybe Micheal.
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My experience with game novels ranges from okay (Bioshock: Rapture, Dead Space novels) to dreadful (the Resident Evil books) and DbD would probably be bad but yes, I absolutely would. I've really been wanting one. I'm a big fan of physical books and I'd also like a hefty character reference book with all the current lore organized within it.
They would have to hire a proper writer though and not whoever makes those embarrassing messes on the in-game bios.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
So from my perspective (97/3% killer main) I think some changes need to be made, this is completely unbiased as I hardly ever touch survivor in fact I have over 1100 in game hours on killer and only 99 on survivor.
So we all can agree that hard tunneling combined with camping/proxy at 5 gens can and do win games that's an undeniable truth. We see then stats of 80+ KR daily, the win streaks daily, and what they all have in common. If hard tunneling wasn't as strong as it is then you wouldn't have so many people staunchly defending it while refusing to admit these things wouldn't be possible without it.
I do in fact think the 1st iteration was over kill from the perspective of someone who rarely if ever tunnels. 6 hooks and all gens being blocked was crazy. I feel like 4 is more reasonable due to the fact that someone dead at 4 hooks is without a doubt hard tunneling.
The BK tenacity wasnt needed. The 90 secs slug prevention in my eyes was fine I mean come on outside of end game why in the world are you slugging for that long.
The perks of not tunneling were kinda meh but also good as you actually got a basekit benefit for going unique hooks, which if you already did you got nothing for so it was just a straight up buff.
I do think removing tunneling entirely would make killer extremely unbearable and most of the vets would probably drop it. As it stands tunneling has never been truly addressed and I think it's time we actually see how the game would fair with a bit of it's power stripped away, you can doom post all day long but no one actually knows exactly how it would play out. Making straw man arguements definitely isn't the way to go.
I do in fact think the 1st iteration was over kill from the perspective of someone who rarely if ever tunnels. 6 hooks and all gens being blocked was crazy. I feel like 4 is more reasonable due to the fact that someone dead at 4 hooks is without a doubt hard tunneling.
The BK tenacity wasnt needed. The 90 secs slug prevention in my eyes was fine I mean come on outside of end game why in the world are you slugging for that long.
The perks of not tunneling were kinda meh but also good as you actually got a basekit benefit for going unique hooks, which if you already did you got nothing for so it was just a straight up buff.
All of this was exactly how I felt too. Four hooks was the way. There's no reason they couldn't have made adjustments and tried it. If it didn't work out right, change it. Two days of a limited test group with zero adjustments wasn't enough to gather any meaningful data. And it's not as though you couldn't still hard tunnel. If you get someone out at 5 gens you're probably still gonna win even with these penalties. If a game is snowballing heavily in my direction, I often don't even waste time kicking gens. I don't bring regression perks either. So the gen stuff isn't as game-ending as people made it out to be.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011167#Comment_4011167
My advocacy is for addressing root problems instead of band-aid fixing things, not for DC'ing. I am stating again that I am not advocating for DC'ing, but rather for addressing causes.
And I'm telling you that I don’t think the root causes exist and so your advocacy starts and ends with defending DCing IMO. It's a symptom of bad atittude and not any problem with game balance. As evidenced by the fact that this problem has ALWAYS existed regardless of the state of game balance, and happens consistently regardless of the state of the match.
Like I said, I do not know why you brought it up. It is clear that the reasons do not matter to you, so I do not know why you brought up what you thought people were DC'ing over. Even if it wasn't trivial, in your opinion, it wouldn't matter.
The reason doesn't matter to me, but it does to you. Which is why I brought it up. I'm trying to explain that the "frustrated with game issues" argument doesn't track, because these people are giving up left and right in games where said issues are NOT even happening. A match can be going as well as humanly possible for one side and they'll still just DC. You would've been correct a year or two ago when DCs were mostly reserved for a very early down, or a tunnel out, or some other situation that seems untenable. But these people have taken it too far and now just give up over anything or nothing. There's no rhyme or reason to it anymore. You can play the least offensive Killer possible, in the least offensive way and they're still going to DC. So the "average game is miserable and that's why they DC" thing just doesn't work. Because even when the games are good, they're STILL abandoning. Therefore the conclusion I come to is that these people don’t like DbD.
So BHVR should continue to add in Killers like SM? Things they know people hate and people should just take it, right? That's the right thing to do? They should release more Killers like Krasue and Ghoul in an extremely overpowered state and then never adjust them. I don't think either attitude is entirely correct.
No. They should try their best to find a balance between fun to play and fun to verse. But naturally, they're not always going to get it right and sometimes there's Killers you hate for non-balance reasons. Of course BHVR needs to address the former ASAP, but the latter is inevitable and people need to accept that that is just part of the game and that if they want to play it, they're going to see such characters. DCing is not an appropriate response (unless there's medical reasons like your migraines, but that's an accessibility issue and not what most of these players are doing).
and then start banning normal players! Make no mistake, that's exactly what you are asking for.
You're intentionally taking my point and conflating it with the most extreme position someone could possibly hold on this issue in order to discredit me. No, normal players shouldn't be banned.
Let's break down exactly what will happen. You will never achieve your first objective, and I suspect you already know that.
No. I don't know that. I truly, wholeheartedly, believe that if people stopped responding in this manner to DCing that it would go away. Seriously. I legitemately think that it's a behaviour that is primarily being enabled by the community. You might think that's naive, but I truly believe that. 100%.
We up the DC penalty. Let's say we make it far more punishing, the first is an hour ban. The second is a 24-hour ban. Three times? A week. So on and so forth.
What will people do? Well, they can't DC and they can't suicide. They will AFK.
Alright, well, let's ban for inactivity, same penalties as before.
Now they can't AFK, DC or suicide. People start running to the Killer.
We can ban for that too, if you get hit without making enough distance post-hit, you get banned like if you DC'd!
Now they can't DC, run to Killer, suicide or AFK! People start soft-throwing chases.
Now you have to start banning for intent.
No, they won't. People are greatly perturbed by minor inconveniences. As soon as giving up becomes any more involved than having to hit a DC button or let go on hook, most of the playerbase doing it will stop. Of course there will be a determined minority who will go to great lengths to bypass anything you do, but most won't. It's human nature. As soon as you make it even a little bit more tricky, most reconsider. It’s the principle behind a great many things in society.
All that needs doing is to make it so the first DC is no longer free. 60 seconds or maybe 2 minute for the first DC. It’s short enough not to be overly punishing for legitimate emergencies/crashes but long enough to make players have to wait before their next match so they can no longer DC and be in another game within 30 seconds.
Most of your list is moot because:
A. Most of these things are bannable anyways. AFKing is already detected and punished.
B. It would never come to this anyways, at least not for most players. Most people value their time enough that if “going next” involves having to run to the Killer and go through all the hooks/unhooks that they’ll deem it not worth it.
So if people DC because of bad attitudes or mild inconveniences why don't more killers DC? With this belief, you should see more killers with no hooks DC at 3 gens popping, or even just a single lost chase, but it's not that common at all. It's all the same player base, after all, so why is only one side so much more bothered by these mild inconveniences?
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A lot of people seem to think they know the exact motivations behind every DC that occurs. In many of my matches, I have no idea why. The only thing BHVR can go off of is the discontent people vocally express. And the fact that they're largely ignoring that discontent shows how significant it likely is (or isn't) to their bottom line. These supossed endless DCs everyone talks about must not be hurting the game as much as people assume.
In my killler matches, people are more likely to try to die on purpose than DC which is really much worse. But there's never going to be a system that can read people's minds, so analyzing these intents without accidentally punishing people simply for being bad is impossible. People will always find a way to leave matches if the game remains consistently frustrating.
The fact that it's vastly more survivors that ragequit is pretty telling. Killers have a chance at a win up until the last second even when they play terrible, but some early scenarios are instant doom for survivors even when they're good players. Why regular comebacks are possible for one side but mostly impossible for the other is the most baffling thing to me me about the game's current structure.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011139#Comment_4011139
definitely kinda wanna give her a shot because one time I had a period where I exclusively played the artist because before that she was another one of those killers who I just never played, but now as you can clearly see that changed so I’ve been thinking of doing that again, but with plague. Except spirit, I am never touching that killer for as long as I live because I have a genuine hearing problem so I can’t play killers that are reliant on audio unless I’m running stridor
I haven't played a ton of her so it probably changes with really good opponents but I've found Spirit's counterplay more reliant on audio than her actual gameplay. Her power is basically like bat form Dracula. You can also use her dried cherry blossom add-on, which gives you killler instinct for nearby survivors, but removes scratch marks.
Plague is basically a meme character for me. She's not bad but I just can't take her seriously.
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Give Plague a chance. I'm not good with her and she's single-handedly bringing down my stats as my number two most used killer but she is hilarious. I never get tired of everyone puking everywhere.
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Is this a poem?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010906#Comment_4010906
Because a lot of those reasons are selfish and petty, and based on entitlement, and a lack of respect for their teammates.
We should NEVER feel sorry for frequent ragequitters. The deserve to be punished.
Who are you even shaking your fist at here? Where's this secret cabal of sinister serial quitters? And how do you know people's reasons? Has everyone who's ever left your matches filled out a survey for you?
Just say it. Say you're okay with flawed systems that hurt survivors but not ones that hurt killers. If it's okay to have a system that sometimes punishes the wrong people then pushing the anti-tunnel to live and correcting it at some obscure furure date shouldn't have been a problem for you. It must be worth it to punish those few innocents in order to get the real culprits, as that's been your whole argument.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010884#Comment_4010884
And the solution is Go Next should be improved to try to detect people intentionally sandbagging. And the AFK crows should be improved to try to detect survivors that are excessively hiding way too early.
How would you like it if BHVR said "well, we didn't get the phase 2 changes right on the first try, and it's really difficult to figure out, so we should just give up now and never try to do better"?
I anxiously await the system that can clearly and accurately detect everyone's intentions and reasonings. Why not just fix the reasons that people go next instead of trying to relentlessly trap them in matches that leave them feeling hopeless?
If we're comparing phase 2 to go-next then I guess they can just shut it down until they fix it then, can't they?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010854#Comment_4010854
If survivors are giving up because of the people who DC, that sounds like all the more reason to address the reasons why they're DC'ing. You say there are plenty of people who would take the place of those who are quitting, but will it be enough? If veteran players won't stick around, what makes you think that new players will? That's why they need to address the reasons for the frustration.
This is the problem: punishing DCs without addressing their source. They need to change the wincon and make the survivor role less selfish. If I'm solo and a killer is tunneling me, what's my motivation to fight it? Randoms that don't care about me? But If I can survive long enough for them to get us on a winning trajectory, I could get a win on my record instead of just a death, even if I died. If it's a team role then the team should win or lose as a whole. That would decrease the feeling of insta-defeat for individual players. It would also end ratting.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010880#Comment_4010880
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UO33MSUZTUVO/img-1383.jpeg
I also have some proposals!
Dead Hard (medium buff)
Now survivors have 1/2/3 second of endurance
Instead of old animation of dashing forward, survivor can gather all of their strength, turn around, and punch killer to the face, stunning them for 3/4/5 secondsLegit I would start using this perk if I could punch the killer
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010869#Comment_4010869
The anti-killer phase 2 changes were so terrible that they needed a lot more than a few minor changes to fix them. I have zero sympathy for the phase 2 changes being reverted, because survivors got the phase 1 changed nerfed into the ground.
People should never be punished by being in a game where someone ragequits early. That's the part you keep ignoring. We aren't comparing a survivor getting punished with a survivor not getting punished. We're comparing survivors getting punished because another survivor ragequit early, with survivors being punished with a false positive from Go Next. The number of overall survivors being punished is much less with Go Next intact.
I already said people regularly try to suicide out in my killer matches. I don't play as any of the top most disliked killers yet I'm not exaggerating when I say it's daily. But those people are probably not being punished because I simply don't let them die fast enough, yet they basically sandbag until I let them fly free.
What your advocating for isn't even all that helpful to the problem. If someone gets two-hooked and, instead of trying to die, rats in a corner, they're just as useless to their team as they would have been if they'd died. There's no punishment for that. To some people, that sort of ratting is a strategy. You're just as trapped with that rat as you would have been without them. You'll never know what anyone's perspective was just by judging in-game actions.
So the system is useless against much of the genuine problems, yet it's punishing at least some people who did nothing wrong. That's a crazy thing to root for.
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250% for 10 seconds dawg what??
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@SpringMyTrap said:
Hopefully never, they will be a massive decline in gameplay quality and the inevitable compensation / killer design change will make the game so much less enjoyable.
edit: to people downvoting me, do you genuinely want the game to turn into blight (krasue/ghoul moreso) by daylight? or do you just completely lack the ability to understand cause and effect and think they'll actually keep making fun and interactive mid tier (as of today's standard) killers in the dbd with these systems?
People are always mentioning these endless Blights that I basically never see.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010846#Comment_4010846
There were lots of false positive on the PTB. Killers were constantly being punished even when they weren't doing problematic behavior.
And you still haven't said if you think BHVR should improve the auto-penalty mechanic, or completely get rid of the auto-penalty mechanic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010863#Comment_4010863
It has been OVER TWO FULL MONTHS, and we still haven't seen recent video evidence for Go Next punishing people incorrectly. At some point, people really should admit it's not really happening often at all.
I would think you of all people, the champion of believing everyone has a sleazy ulterior motive, would embrace the idea that people are going onto something as potentially important and performative as the ptb with the express intent of shifting the narrative in the direction they want it to go. And again, the devs could have 1) let it go on for more than two days and then 2) modified it based on what they'd learned. All people asked for in regards to Krasue was less clunky head control and they buffed her into braindead invincibility, probably because not enough streamers were getting their easy 4Ks with her. And now we have another despised, overturned killler. Tell me how these two things make sense.
If they can properly revise it, why wouldn't I want that? It doesn't benefit me having my teammates suicide out, nor do I enjoy hopeless opponents running up to me to die. I'm also pretty tired of giving the remaining players hatch/gates because they had a deranged teammate and now I feel bad. But I don't see how you can make it identify genuine go-next behavior. People should never be punished for doing poorly, and they never, ever should be punished for someone else's behavior. If that's what you want, then the killer can get the same penalty for tunneling them out in two minutes. That's a choice they made, unlike an unfairly punished player.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010809#Comment_4010809
Because the tunneling reduction PTB had a very large amount of video evidence of people getting punished unfairly, because the PTB changes actually were giving an extreme amount of false positives.
See how that works? People were super easily able to get video evidence of the tunneling reduction problems, because it was happening often enough to be a problem.
Streamers and sweats go on the very limited ptb to test the limits, hence all that video evidence. Average players aren't doing any of this. They could have just adjusted the numbers and sent it live to see how it works with regular players, then hotfixed it again. There was certainly no issue sending the untested Krasue buffs that are making everyone miserable to live.
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I managed to finish the Milestones but this is probably the most grindy thing I've ever had to do for this game. And for what? There isn't even a noteworthy reward? Why were these so absurd? If someone who plays every day struggled to finish these then who were these numbers even designed around?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010828#Comment_4010828
On the contrary, I believe I have about 60% on Survivor, if I am remembering correctly.
See, all these 80%-90% KRs leave me numb but I see 60% overall ER and I'm shocked. That should be a rule and not an exception for experienced players.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The devs playing solo queue probably experience the same things as the overall solo queue player base. Around 40% average escape rate. That’s about where I’m at in solo queue as well and that feels fine to me. Anything much higher than 40% average escape rate and the game becomes a grueling sweat fest for killers. How do I know this? I play killer as well. Sweating your butt off for two kills at most match after against very good survivors gets unfun pretty quickly. 60% kill rate on the killer side and 40% escape rate on the survivor side feels the most balanced to me as someone who plays both roles about equally.
BHVR realizes that overall most players (at least those who play both sides) feel this way as well, which is why they balance around these rates. Of course they can’t make everyone happy, and they won’t be able to please those who have unreasonable expectations.If you've been playing the game for awhile and put effort forth, it's not unreasonable to expect to climb past those two base rates. Being forever average gives you no incentive to play. There are a bunch of killers on this forum with 80%+ KRs yet the highest overall survivor ER is usually around 50%. Even upper MMR is 48%. If that's the best rate the best players can maintain, then something is off.
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@brewingtea said:
No killer DCs though. That's interesting. Like the problem is only on one side for weird and unknown reasons
I have a pretty full folder of killer DC screenshots. They happen, but you're right, the incentive is lower. I can't tell you how many killer matches I've had where I've played like hot garbage, got 0 or 1 hooks, then somehow managed a 2k-4k outcome in end game that I absolutely didn't deserve. There's always a change for a bounce back for killers. Would be nice is survivors had a similar chance, but that got canceled real fast.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010750#Comment_4010750
And we could just as easily say that the benefits of the tunneling reduction far outweigh the downsides of it. But it got pulled because it was deemed unfair for the Killers who weren't tunneling, so it's (supposedly) being worked on. Why should go-next prevention not receive the same treatment? Yes, we know they did it once, but they need to do it again, if they absolutely insist on having this system in place.
It seems silly to think the company is biased in favor of the 20% of players playing killer but the way things play out, it's also hard not to feel so. The immediate axing of fog vials and anti-tunnel, and pushing through a buffed and untested Krasue, highlight that.
The fact that I could choose to go into my killer matches determined to be a terror—proxy someone, hit them on hook, hump them, and shove them back to the lobby--and receive no possibility of automatic penalty, yet they could be penalized, is totally wacky. I've never seen anyone say this happens to them as killler, so even if they're AFK the whole match, there's probably no punishment system for that.
I suppose the killer role is the one that sells the game, and is the favored one by content creators, so that has to be the driving force. And if survivors continue to play and spend money, the devs won't have a reason to change.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010788#Comment_4010788
I see a fair amount of DCs but can't remember the last time someone tried to feed themselves to me. I even played an entire evening of Krasue the other night and had like maybe a couple of DCs. I pushed my luck with a few rounds of Kaneki and somehow managed to not get a single DC.
I have seen salty lips and chalk pouches as offerings a few times in survivor matches but no one really used them as far as I could tell.
I guess I just get the deranged ones, though I probably get more suicide attempts than DCs. It happened to me at least twice in my session two days ago and I was Wraith.
I'd rather people DC than throw the match though. Bots at least try. Had a recent survivor match where someone DCed after a double hook and it ended up a 4-out. Even the bot got to leave. We might not have made it if they'd just killed themselves.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010610#Comment_4010610
I think if I’ll start M2 challenge, I’m gonna lose much more next time at the start.
New pallet density update affected him a lot. Before you were able to smartly close survivor in safe construction and lock him there, now before getting hit I can be sure at least 3-4 pallets would be pre-dropped and survivor will just do some random stuff which is hard to read, so I have to M1 most of the time. Playing on new Autouheavem now killing me as much as playing on Badham..
I was incredibly lucky that the game chose not to show me the new Crotus on this killer yet
The predrops have been so annoying. They can chill with the pallets on some of these maps. I've been thinking about bringing Brutal Strength uts been so dumb. I keep getting Badham too. One session, I got Badham three times. I just about screamed the third time.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010688#Comment_4010688
Who are you arguing with here? Who is saying rage quitting is fine?
Do you think the only solution to going next is to disregard all actions taken in a match and just go off how quickly you die? Doesn't matter if you were on a gen? Doesn't matter if you unhooked someone? You died quick so you must be throwing? You think that's a good system?
Do you not think the hook changes already fixed the problem? I don't know about you but I'm not seeing anyone going next in my matches. I'm seeing DCs but that doesn't have anything to do with this - DCs are a different system.
I don't know about you but I'm not seeing anyone going next in my matches.
I'm actually kinda surprised you don't. If I play 10 killer matches in a session, two or three will always have people trying to get me to kill them, particularly the one that was hooked first, or if I get three or more hooks before a gen gets done. I had a match recently where someone brought a luck offering and my first two hookings went second stage trying to kill themselves. That sort of thing isn't a rare occurrence for me.
But that highlights another point. If it happens that much in my matches, yet the warning rate appears to be low, the system doesn't work. And that's because—as just about everyone has deduced—it's time based. I usually swerve on people trying to die, at least until I get tired of them spamming lockers, pallet slamming, or chashing me around the map. I don't tunnel, so they're not dying a minute into the match, yet they're still sandbagging and trying to go next.
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@CatManThree said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010581#Comment_4010581
From what I have seen people have been saying this is due to a bug.
The bugs have been better than the content lately.
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60% win rate with one perk is great. I commend your devotion.
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@lunaticlifter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010568#Comment_4010568
you don't even need swf for survivor to the be the power role, just 4 good survivors with decent game sense is enough, the problem is that you don't find them often. If you add too many counterplay you kill the killer. But i get your point. sadly this is not a pure pvp game, it's asymmetrical 1 vs 4, so it's fine to have sometimes a killer that requires less skill and has less counterplay considering most of the roster is not that good. if it's overused and people only face this killer, then it becomes a problem. But because of the lack of variety and people complaining. But that should tell you something more about the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010570#Comment_4010570
if you play everyday you're defintely not a casual and your point is even more understandable.. mmr was a mistake to begin with, but since human nature is competitive this is what we got. we have too many killers that are not good enough, and maybe 5 of them good that require effort to play with.. i used to main og nurse on console on 20 fps with a controller back in 2018, so i know something about that. This game should not be cod or lol, but they moved forward that direction in the past years. For me casual it means you don't play every day, every week or every month constantly. i didn't say killers deserve casuale wins.. i just said survivors have it and always had it much more easier considering the roster and the nature of this game. Maybe krasue do deserve some changes but everytime i see ideas, i see only people trying to literally ''gut her'' so to me it's so obvious the reason behind that
I'm a memey survivor and a merciful killer so if the choices are casual or competitive than I'm casual. I think the game should be balanced around casual/mid-MMR players, not sweats, but I also don't think you should never play and then be able to hop on a no-skill killer once a month and mow people down, especially more experienced players. She doesn't need to be obliterated, but she needs to be adjusted. Fine tunings are a necessity.
If you played 3 games a month as killer you should be satisiafied with 0-2k matches. That's a logical outcome for a game you don't play. If I hopped on CoD right now—as someone who hasn't touched it in an age—I'd expect a 3-16 KDR or something abysmal like that.
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I've been wanting it back for awhile, especially with how bombastic the Tokyo Ghoul and TWD ones were. I'm so glad to have it back.
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@lunaticlifter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010528#Comment_4010528
i mean we can agree that casual people don't want to invest more time than they should because at the end of the day it's a game, sometimes even if they want, the simply can't. So they either get good , get stomped, or quit the game. And we all know the skill cap is much higher as killer.. Fun is subjective for sure, for somebody it can be try different builds, not taking the game too seriously , to improve especially at the beginning, but once you get past that, what's the point? is to win, or at least have good chases even if you ''lose''..i know it's perspective, but for majority of people, that's what it is, especially the one swith a lot of hours, they build a strong ego over the game and they don't accept defeat.
Not sure we can agree. What is your definition of casual? Is that mindset or play time? I consider myself casual yet I play everyday, but I don't take the game very seriously, hence a casual approach.
Killers that are easy to play should have easy counters too. If you want that chill, low stress experience than you need to lose a good amount of your matches and stay in low MMR. There's no scenario where you easily win all the time and never receive challenges or need to improve. And there shouldn't be killlers that skyrocket you out of your MMR skill level.
Also, why does it sound like killers deserve casual, easy wins but survivors don't? What about those casual survivors? Where's their easy win?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010531#Comment_4010531
Taming a Krasue. Our greatest achievement
Twins was pretty nuts. Clown is the next summit.