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ad19970
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671601#Comment_671601
1 Survivor being chased = Everyone else has free reign.
It's literally one of the major reasons people hate 3-4 man SWF.
But that's the case with solo survivors as well. I mean why wouldn't they work on gens if they aren't getting chased or hear the heartbeat of the killer? They can still work on gens just as effectively. If one survivor is being chased, there's nothing stopping the other survivors from doing gens.
As far as i can tell, the biggest advantage swf survivors have is a built in kindred. And by the way, if solo survivors were brought up more to the level of swf survivors, especially by adding kindred into base kit, killers could be balanced more around swf anyways. It would be the most optimal way to balance this game.
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@Raccoon said:
Looping - With SWF, you can call your pals over to bodyblock if you're going to go down, get them to try and force a switch off, clicky clicky, etc.
Healing is still easier if you know where someone is - SWF>Solo
SWF can send out their non-exhausted member for chases.
SWF can relay pallet information (used/unused/fake) in real-time.
That just means one less survivor on gens though. Not sure if that is often such a great thing.
Regarding healing, I give you that, I admit that can be an advantage. Though the meta seems to be not healing that often anyways.
You really don't often have a choice as survivors which survivor gets chased by the killer, and the biggest impact this nerf had was in chases, so once a survivor is already being chased.
This one can be a bit helpful at times, sure. But gens often control at which places survivors can run to, and the killer himself has some control over where a survivor runs next to.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671586#Comment_671586
This change will kill every killer, aside from Nurse and MAYBE Spirit.
Of course, Killers/Gen-Times would be buffed in compensation, hopefully before the game is killed.
That information would not kill every killer. Survivors that don't hear the heartbeat of killers will work on gens anyway. It would just be a nice little extra for solo survivors. It's not like every killer is killed by swf.
Also, killer queue times are longer than survivor queue times, at least on pc. I think inreasing objective time would kill the game, unless you enjoy 30 minute queue times as killer.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671568#Comment_671568
May as well if you can't tell that they are chasing someone at some point for the entire duration of the game.
That's not the problem. But if a survivor finds a hex totem, and then gets chanced, there is a high chance that no other solo survivor knows about that totem and doesn't know the survivor who found the totem is being chased. Swf survivors can just tell their friends where the totem is and that he is being chased so he should get it. How are solo survivors supposed to get that information to have a chance to cleanse the totem like that?
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671554#Comment_671554
Okay first: Looping
"Hey he's chasing me. Yall do gens, I got a jungle gym."
Second: Those Nerfs
Those are very general, so sure they effected everyone evenly cause it was a very broad change.
Third: Which Perks?
I meant being effective at lasting long in a chase.
Also, I'm pretty sure the majority of the community would want to have that feature where survivors can see if some survivor is being chased or not by looking at their icon below, so that should be a thing anyways.
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@Trwth said:
Right away, I think a nerf is a bit too sudden for this. Remember this, The Demogorgon is a trapping Killer, so protecting objectives is where he is supposed to be strongest, which is a definitely a sign of a really good Killer if you play your cards right. If it didn’t affect totems, then potential is taken from that Killer.
When you see a portal placed by the Killer, you’re goal is to make sure you play your cards as well. If it is next to a generator or totem, you should be cautious and see how you can deal with it. If it is inactive, you can take your chances or leave it alone. If it’s active, perhaps gather a few fellow survivors to help you destroy it.
Do you get what I mean? We don’t need a nerf. Those mechanics encourage strategy when you’re facing certain Killers which, by the way as some have mentioned in this thread, also include existing Killers such as the Trapper, the Hag, the Plague, etc.
Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm making it out to be worse than it actually will be. I can't know for certain, I am just stating my opinion based on my observations.
I'm honestly happy if they end up not having to nerf him at all. I'm just scared they nerf him in unnecessary ways just because of stuff like this. You know, nerfing his ability in a way that hurts him in general instead of just nerfing his ability in a way that it only affects his totem protection power.
I just hope Devour Hope won't become too demolishing on him against solo survivors.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671554#Comment_671554
I disagree with all of this.
Why?
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@DraxColdheart said:
They should make when all 5 totems break the killer dies and the survivors automatically win and get 999 million blood points.
No that's not what anyone wants. But sure, wanting the killer instinct near portals not to work on survivors that are cleansing, and only when they are cleansing and nothing else, is practically just as bad as wanting that what you just commented.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671505#Comment_671505
Can you give me some examples?
I mean, generally looping is no more easier when playing with friends than it is when playing solo. The healing nerf, exhaustion nerf or pallet density nerf didn't hurt solos anymore than swf survivors. Heck, most of the killers abilities aren't more powerful against solo survivors than they are against swf survivors.
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On the game map, whenever you see a closed metal door that fills almost the entire wall, you can be sure that a gen is in one of the rooms that are seperated by that wall. If you don't see a gen in the one room you are in, it has to be in the other room at the other side of the wall.
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@Kilmeran said:
He didn't patrol the gens. He spent all the time messing with portals and chasing one guy just . . . why?
I can't even fathom why he would comment about "teams being this quick" when until he got 3-gen popped, he didn't even pressure the gens.
He's red ranks, he knows better. But he played like a yellow or green rank in the beginning of that match.
He's not new at this game. Those three gens were on him.
I agree. He should have patrolled other gens after he got that first hit against the survivor. The only small problem I maybe see is that the map is so large, it really is hard to apply map pressure on a map that big. But that's if anything a map design problem.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Unpopular opinion:
The Speed of the first Gen(s) does not matter that much. At this point Survivors are at the strongest. The more time passes, the weaker will Survivors become because they need to be more careful once they are on their last hook, they need to heal and/or save Teammates and the Ressources (aka Pallets) are lower.
Furthermore, this is with a new Killer, so it can be assumed that tru3 is not playing him in an optimal way.
And well, in the end it was a 3K...Not too bad tbh. Even with the fast 3 Gens. (Have not watched the video, just the Results at the end)
He did have a mori, but yeah, the less gens there are, the harder it gets for survivor, and he probably still could have won even without the mori. If survivors play optimally, though, of course there will also be matches where you lose as a killer, or only get 2 kills. If you could win as a killer every game, even every game where you play against optimal survivors, then the game's balance would be really heavily screwed.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671482#Comment_671482
That's the thing. There is no margin for error on Killer side cause of it. You chase that one guy for like 10 seconds too long? Doomed.
I mean, when survivors play optimally, the killer should have to as well in order to win, it just seems fair. The only thing this game needs is map reworks, so that weaker killers also have a chance to fight back.
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@Rivyn said:
Instinct only activates when the portal itself is active. Which means that it can be destroyed. So, destroy the portal, have him run you around a bit, somebody else breaks totem. Not much different than Hag, honestly.
Yeah, but that strategy only reliably works with swf survivors. Whereas solo survivors once again have to pray that more than just one survivor knows about the totem, and that one of the survivors who knows about that totem knows that another survivor is getting chased.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671446#Comment_671446
Cause he is a good player that thinks up viable strats with all Killers? Come on man, you need to chill.
Uhm, I am chill?
@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671449#Comment_671449
EVERYTHING HURTS SOLO MORE THAN SWF. Nature of the game boyo.
Not everything hurts solo more than swf. And only few things hurt solo more than swf as much as this new advantage the Demogorgon has.
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@Jesya said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671405#Comment_671405
Jeeze this comment is so underrated. Even for a solo survivor you can figure out when someone else is in a chase...
There's quite a difference though. For one, you won't always know if another survivor is in a chase. More importantly though, if one solo survivor finds the totem, the others don't know where it is or in some cases know that there is a Hex totem to cleanse. They won't know if a survivor found a totem and is now being chased by the Demogorgon. Solo survivors would have far less of a chance than swf survivors in that situation, which is something this game really doesn't need anymore of.
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I knew this video would end up on these forums.
But as others have said, increasing the objective in any way at the moment would just hurt the game so much, since survival, especially or at least at low ranks, isn't that high. Even at red ranks, survival is below 50%, though those stats are of course affected by dc's and so not entirely represantative of the game's balance. Nevertheless, this would just demolish low ranks. Not to forget to mention that already strong killers would just turn out absolutely broken.
He probably shouldn't have chased the first survivor he found after he injured them, plus even with two gens left he could still have had a chance to win even without the Mori.
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@Locker_Monster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671440#Comment_671440
Ok? That's how some Killer powers work. Trappers traps. Hags traps. Etc.
Why change it for one Killer?
Hags can just be ignored. You've got some point with trapper, though they take way less time to disarm, and they can't block off every totem. Also, survivors can be revealed even while destroying the portal, at least I believe so, which gives Demogorgon even more time to react. He could also place two portals near the totem, if one gets destroyed, he'll just teleport to the other one.
We just don't need more certain powers to killers that are so much more effective against solo survivors than against swf survivos.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
Another nerf to solo’s maybe, SWF will always be able to find a workaround.
SWF are kinda like The Avengers tbh
Exactly what I fear. Demogorgon seems fine, the only concerns I have is his power with Hex perks and his teleport power being to good when only 3 gens are left, being able to defend those gens for an eternity. Nerfing him in those ways could be compensated by buffing other parts of his kit, like increasing the radius of portals in which survivors are revealed to the Demogorgon via killer instinct, letting him keep place portals even if he already placed all 6 of them, and/or decreasing setup time of portals.
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@Palleteatergorgon said:
"Personally, I would suggest that the Demogorgon's killer instinct does not work on survivors that are on totems. But only totems, nothing else. Should still work on survivors that are on gens, that's one of the main features that gives him nice map pressure." thus cutting of half of their potential. Portals are fine as they is. They surely can be a nuisance and even a death sentence for survivors in some situations but this how they are supposed to be, imo.
If devs take away killer instincts procs for survivors interacting with anything besides portal, Demogorgon`s map pressure ability would be useless.
By the way, you shouldn't care about totems, because you still can force him to chase someone and break the totem, think about how can he camp exit gates against last remaining surv and he doesn't care if they are on the opposite sides of the map, he just tracks surv with KI
Why? It's just when they are working on totems. In any other case he should be able to detect survivors with killer instinct. The killer instinct not working on survivors that are cleansing totems wouldn't cut of half of their potential. It still we be most useful for detecting survivors working on gens.
We just don't need a feature of a killer that once again hurts solo survivors much more than swf survivors.
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@Alice_pbg said:
Which video exactly? Would help your case if you have a link
He uses the strategy in almost every match with Demogorgon, I believe. I'll add a link to one of his videos maybe soon.
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@Raccoon said:
"He's chasing me - Do the totem."
But that's just a solution for swf survivors. What about solo survivors? Should they be left out once again?
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@Locker_Monster said:
You do know that unused portals (which are invisible) don't activate Killer Instinct?
So a portal has to be destroyable for KI to even trigger, which means it can be destroyed before the totem.
It's fine. This is an unneeded nerf.
Yeah but if you destroy a portal he will know you are at the hex totem.
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@LonlyGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/648605#Comment_648605
all loops even god loops are counterble if you take them away it basically becomes killer chances you for 1min downs you and then on the hook which is like killer bullying survivors which is fun either except for killers. And if they do that then what fun is it a game instead of lasting maybe 15 to 20mins it last 5mins because all loops are ez to counter what fun is that.
What? There is np counter to loops like the window loop of the Ironworks map, all you can do is chase a survivor three times around that loop until the vault gets blocked. Also, a 1 minute chase is if anything average and not even that good for a killer, since gens can be done quite fast.
Maps don't need these ridiculously safe loops that take no skill since you are just runing around that same loop without being in any risk that you might get hit by the killer.
Maps need these ridiculously safe window loops to be altered so survivors at least can't run killers around those loops three times, need more mindgameable pallet loops and then just more pallets in general. That's the plan of the devs. Have more pallets on a map, but more mindgameable ones and not as many safe ones, and not have these safe vault loops that can be looped until the entity blocks the vaults. Of course some safe pallet loops are still fine, as long as there aren't too many.
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The map looks really good, they should just change a few of the unsafe pallets into mindgameable ones. Right now there are a few too many unsafe pallets.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670292#Comment_670292
So, What you are saying is that if you don't play Spirit, Nurse, or Billy that you don't wanna win and should pick better killers? Then, if you do pick Nurse, Spirit or Billy, you have no skill and should be removed from the game?
Also, wanna know how not to get 3 gen'ed? Don't leave 3 gens close together last.
That aside, I do think Gen speeds are insane. There is no reason for them to be so fast.
I'm not sure I understand what you are telling me.
All I think this game needs is to buff weaker killers, maybe to the level of huntress or freddy, and have some of the bad maps reworked a bit. That's enough, we don't need increased gen time. It would buff killers way too much. Especially since we already have viable killers. Buffing the weaker killers by buffing killers in general is not the way the devs should do it.
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@ScoopsAhoy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670292#Comment_670292
Ok, but I still think making survivors do a secondary objective than pressing m1 is more productive and better for the killer, heck, even a survivor main right here and many others want another objective. Post while back of a person talking about adding fuel, had like 100+ upvotes. Map reworks are on the way, but how much can they really solve?
Sure, if we reduce the gen time so that the overall objetive time is more or less the same as it is now, than I would be all for it. But I feel like that would be very hard to pull off without screwing over the balance in some way or another, and I'm not sure if the devs want to change such a core design of the game so late into the game's cycle. Would be nice of course.
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People say gen speed is a balance problem, but with the current state the game's in, there is absolutely no need for gen speed to be nerfed or for objective time to be increased. It would just make the majority of killers absolutely broken, especially ones like Nurse or Spirit. Increasing the regression might be ok, since it doesn't affect gen time too much, but it might already be too much if we consider the 3 gen strat of killers.
Map reworks are on the way, that's the only real general balance change the game needs. Especially since it's mostly low tier killers that benefit from those reworks.
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@liviu1911 said:
i hope they won't touch his special attack ... it's pretty balanced as it is now but they need to buff a little bit those portals, and let you see survivors without using them ... that's not nice... :D aand it's almost mouse1 killer since his special attack can't be used anywhere
If there is one thing I do not want to see get nerfed, it's the lunge. It seems to be in a really nice spot.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/669808#Comment_669808
Freddy, Doc, and Plague can all do the same thing....I mean, if you get 3 genned you get 3 genned thats been a thing forever....
I mean you might be right. I don't know. I feel like with the cooldown being so low, even if the three gens aren't close to each other, he can still defend gens as if the survivors 3 genned themselves. It's not just the teleport, but also the ability to always see whether a survivor is working on any generator. So that, with the low cooldown of his teleport, seems to be a bit much for when only 3 gens are left. Freddy for example has a much longer cooldown on his ability. The others don't have any teleport ability and can't constantly see whether a survivor is on a gen or not.
I think if the cooldown was 25 or 30 seconds, it wouldn't be an issue anymore. We'll see, but I would be happy if they buffed Demogorgon in other ways to compensate for a cooldown nerf. At least I would expect them to do that, so he doesn't just get a straight nerf and nothing else. Cause in general he doesn't seem op, actually really balanced.
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@Vlyse said:
I don't think buffing solo survivors to match SWF is what should happen. SWF power levels are much higher.
I think SWF should be nerfed, if anything. Solo survivor is the true experience the devs wanted and ended up caving in to add SWF when people threw their arms up because they couldn't play with their friends.
How should they nerf swf though? It seems much easier to buff solo survivors. And swf is very important to the game. You can't blame people for wanting to play with their friends.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/669378#Comment_669378
You clearly are bitter about something so lemme explain.
This information is only gonna help soloq and small SWF groups (like groups of 2) in that context, the game is actually perfectly balanced. Since soloq is pretty much a free 4k anyways.
You say killers are supposed to be the power role but to what extent? Is a rank 20 killer supposed to win against a rank 1 Survivior no matter what? Is a survivor supposed to be heavily disadvantaged and forced to outplay the killer multiple times over and pray to god their team actually does something.
You sound more entitled than any Survivior main.
I really wouldn't call solo queue a free 4k though. You can still play quite optimally even when solo queuing. But it's in general much harder, so any information that solo survivors can get that swf have is very important. I mean, if swf have it already? And you can't get rid of swf.
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@Gibberish said:
The perks being shown in the lobby should be added.
But the entity legs during chase should not. It shouldnt even be there for the obsession.
Why not though? Swf have that information, it's only fair for solo survivors to also gain at least some of the information that swf survivors have. It's the only proper way to balance this game.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670086#Comment_670086
If they do then he's instantly going to be yet another bad Killer. His low cooldown is what makes his portals useful. The information is nice but being able to use them back to back like he can now is how he can win games.
Without that he's outclassed by Hag and Freddy.
I just fear he'll be too good with three gens left, at least when they are close to each other. I don't know, maybe he'll be fine the way he is now, I'll be glad if he stays as strong as he is.
They could buff him in other ways to compensate for the nerf though, if they need to nerf his cooldown.
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@Ark_the_Bonsai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670096#Comment_670096
It does take longer than letting others heal you technically, but including the time it takes for someone else to get to you it is generally about the same. I, and most people, just see it as a waste of a perk slot though. So many better things could go there.
I'm glad about the healing nerfs, not so glad about self care getting a separate nerf to the healing ones though. Brought it down from a "Meh, but common" choice to a "Why would I run this when I can just bring a medkit?"
Understandable.
But it wasn't really a seperate nerf to Self Care, just that it had it's time increased because healing in general got nerfed. If Self Care waa faster than 50% however, then people would not have a reason to be healed by others, since it would be way more effective to just heal yourself. I guess maybe 60% healing speed for Self Care could work, since it does take up a perk slot, but it shouldn't be higher than that. The point of Self Care is to be able to heal yourself if there is no other survivor around that can heal you.
If you think about it, Self Care could be already considered to let you waste less time on healing because you don't have to waste time running to another survivor so they can heal you.
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@Ark_the_Bonsai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670013#Comment_670013
Unless you're referring to how buggy his reveal, this post is gonna bother the heck out of me. Everyone keeps acting like spooky boi got nerfed into the ground because:
- They made it so that he can get stunned out of his power (LIKE EVERY OTHER KILLER IN THE GAME)
- Made his reveal area very slightly larger, (it's still about as big as your pinky finger tip on the middle of the screen, calm down its fine. Before you could be kissing him and not reveal him. This was basically a bug fix)
- And remove his ability to stalk survivors who were already stalked to full (You're obviously not being stealthy with the stealth killer if you're extending their timer in a chase. This was also obviously a bug given that there were addons to extend the timer. Why bring an addon that makes it last longer when you can just make it last longer yourself?)
Like honestly. Can someone please explain the hate for the Ghostface changes to me. They're nothing compared to how Pig got gutted or how Self Care became F tier (I miss when survs took 7 years self healing each game instead of doing gens) yet people act like it's the end of the world.
Sorry for the small rant. Been sitting on this for a while and it spikes up every time I see someone complain about him like anything important to his playstyle changed for the worse.
I'm surprised Self Care gets so much hate. You still don't waste any more time when healing yourself than when being healed by someone else. It's just that healing in general takes longer now.
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I feel like the devs will probably have to increase the cooldown a bit, since he can otherwise be a bit too insane when only 3 gens are left, especially when survivors 3 genned themselves. Probably needs a cooldown of 25 or 30 seconds.
Maybe they they could buff him in other areas a bit to compensate for that nerf. I actually thought until now that he can keep placing portals even if he placed all 6, so that could be something they could add. Maybe some other small buffs if they nerf the cooldown.
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I fully agree. And they did fantastic job with this new dlc, especially the killer in my opinion.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/667339#Comment_667339
I am killer main and I love blood Lodge get good with countering looping instead of bitching then you will see a difference. Out of azarov places in dbd the worst one is wretched shop. Even then it is still able to be countered.
How do you counter all the safe pallet loops that can't be mindgamed because they are too big and the surivor can see the killer?
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@MegsAreEvil said:
The Portals/porting will get nerfs for sure cause they break the game under certain circumstances.
The teleporting will most likely get an increased cooldown, that would solve the problem.
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@ScoopsAhoy said:
They shouldn't do anything except BUFF his teleporters as a possibility.
Actually, people have been saying his teleport is very annoying when only 3 gens are left, and with his ability to see survivors working on gens near portals with his killer instinct, it makes it ridiculously hard to complete one last gen of the three remaining gens, since he always knows on which gens survivors are working, and he can teleport to those gens very fast.
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They didn't do it with the Freddy rework though. And he is quite powerful, also having both an ability that helps him in chase and an ability to apply map pressure.
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@Karltastisk said:
boring add ons, i wish all addons would get the wraith treatment, but no! Boring stats you will never see or feel during gameplay (except ultra rares). All add ons the last 3 chapters are really lackluster.
There's a positive side of this as well, though. Having them not have such an impact on a match just means the killer is less addon dependent.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
I can already see the complaints of people dodging them in lobbies because they aren't using meta perks or are low rank.
That would be really sad if that turned out to become a serious problem. Who the hell would leave a lobby just because other survivors aren't using meta perks? I at least like to believe that there aren't that many immature idiots in the community.
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@Carlosylu said:
Good sir, it would be a good Idea only if it was applied to survivors, killers will DC as soon as they se a lobby full of DS, Diehard and borrowed time
Killers bein able to see the survivor perks would just be broken. Just imagine all the lobby dodging.
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Haven't played the map myself, but from what I could see in videos, many of these pallets are mindgameable, a few even completely unsafe for survivors. I don't feel like it's bad at all, honestly. Seems like a well balanced map, with both safe and unsafe loops, as well as mindgameable loops.
Also, how are multiple pallet loops forming and infinite loop? Survivors will have to drop the pallet sooner or later and then you can just get rid of that pallet.
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@toxicmegg said:
not everything in videogames is supposed to go the way u want. ok play something else or at least stop crying about it here.
This is the forums here, people are allowed to express their opinion on certain matters.
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@altruistic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/669442#Comment_669442
If you ignore it he will just port onto you.. I didn't play as him, but it seems his traps don't have a range.
I'm not asking for nerfs or trying to complain. I am just expressing that in my games, he was very unfun to play against.
If this is indeed a problem though, then maybe the devs should look into this problem. Maybe increasing the power recovery time of his teleport ability when there are only 3 gens left. Or increasing the distance from the gen at which you can't place portal, at least when only 3 gens are left. The only problem I see is that the devs probably don't like altering a killers ability depending on how many generator are left.
Haven't played against him yet, but in general he looks like a lot of fun to verse. Chases against him look very fun, and his map pressure forces you to be alert all of the time, with his portals being a bit like an optional second objective for survivors.
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He seems to be in a perfect spot balance wise. I hope I can try him out in a few days when I get back home and am not stuck with a potato pc.
Balance wise he feels just like Freddy, a healthy amount of map pressure and chase potential.
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@FishFry247 said:
He is good, Not to good. But a mid rank killer, I'm keeping my rank one with him currently but people seem not to want to dodge his lunge for some reason. Hope they don't over nerf it
I hope they don't nerf it at all, it seems strong in chases but definitely not overpowered in any way.