ad19970
ad19970
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In general I think he is really well balanced. Despite me making a post about wanting his cooldown to be increased, but that would be to simply just allow survivors slightly more viable counterplay by dodging his shock therapy. Though who knows if that wouldn't backfire already and be too much. He needs his good chase potential, so if survivors again would receive enough counterplay to reliably loop him for too long, he'd become weak again.
I think his chase potential is great, and killers need that in order to have a chance to keep up with the fast generator times. His static blast also allows him to apply fairly good map pressure, by finding survivors faster in general ,tiering up their madness and being able to hit them at a decent range. But he does lack mobility, which in the end hurts his map pressure somewhat.
I think he has just enough power to actually be viable even against optimal survivors.
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@MrsGhostface said:
Wish they kept him as he was. I loved maining him. I was already amazing with him and this update just makes it too easy, and now he’s such a popular killer everyone runs calm spirit. Also, he is definitely a bit too powerful, coming from a survivors perspective. Worried he’ll be ruined because he’s so good now :( Should’ve just left him. He wasn’t even bad to begin with in my opinion.
I personally thought he was pretty weak before the rework. I wanted to main him because of his general visual design and concept, but he just wasn't that fun to me. I feel like he is now pretty well balanced. Strong, but not op. Against optimal survivors he'll still have a challenging time. But he might actually stand a chance now.
Perhaps he feels a bit too easy though because of the current rank and matchmaking problems?
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123936/one-tiny-nerf-to-doctor
I dont think he really needs to be nerfed. Surviviors will learn how to counter his power as time passes, nerfing him this early and in this particular area would probably backfire as soon as surviviors learn to counter him
Yes perhaps. From all my experience I got by playing him, and observing his power at loops, I just feared that people would start arguing that he doesn't have enough counterplay in chases, but it's very likely I am wrong about that as well. There's very likely good routing around loops that allow counterplay in order to prolong chases in an impactful way that I probably missed.
It would make me happy if he was never touched again, since he has now become one of my favorite killers in this game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123936/one-tiny-nerf-to-doctor
I don’t think this is entirely necessary. Survivors just need to adjust their approach to loops and pallets, and perhaps be prepared to drop them early rather than attempt a stun (like if they were matched against Clown)
Yep you might be right. I'm aware that I might be overlooking certain other ways to counterplay him. I think I've just realised one more counterplay, if you would call it like that, since I made this post. I think I just wanted to make this post, simply because I do fear that more people might start arguing that he has too little counterplay in chases, so I wanted to explain how I believe survivors could receive just a bit more counterplay, without hurting the Doctor in any significant way.
I'd be pretty disappointed if they nerfed Doc by increasing the charge time of his shock therapy for example, since that would be a nerf to his chase potential, without actually increasing the counterplay of survivor in any way. I do believe the devs would realise this though if they did decide to nerf Doc.
But I'd be very glad if he never ever got touched again. He has now become without a doubt one of my absolute favorite killers in this game. And I really love going against him as well.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032870#Comment_1032870
They’ve been doing that for the past year and a half or so.
To be fair in a lot of that time it was only a few perks that got nerfed, so I wouldn't say survivors got hit too hard either. But yes, survivors have got nerfed, especially in the second half of 2018, and I feel like some people tend to forget this.
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032421#Comment_1032421
Legion has a 4 second cool down on his ability that cripples his game play. You want to add a cool down on doctor. I actually read and understood your obnoxiously long post chief. At this point, any nerf to doctor would be too soon.
You are comparing the cooldown of Legion to the slightly increased cooldown of Doctor I am talking about? Which again I explained why I would want this cooldown so anyone who understood my post would never get the idea to compare these two cooldowns.
I'm sorry but ythat makes me believe you do not understand what nerf I am suggesting. The only thing I am suggesting here is to make the counterplay of dodging Doctor's shock therapy just a tad more viable.
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@TrappersTears said:
If he isn't op then a nerf isn't needed stop trying to nerf everything that isn't broken
I'm not trying to nerf everything that isn't broken. I just feared that people will complain about him not having a fair amount of counterplay so I suggested this small nerf that would add just slightly more counterplay to Doctor.
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@Eye66 said:
"Annoying" means "Takes mild effort to escape from" to these people, it's so grossly dishonest
What people are you exactly talking about? Who means "takes mild effort to escape from" when saying annoying?
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@EnviouSLAY said:
If he couldn't cancel vault animations especially if they were quick vaults i would be okay with whatever. But i find it completely BS that its a 50/50 if you can vault because of his power. It happens even more now than it did with Old Doctor. Quick Vaults should be more rewarding than they are. Because vaulting in general anymore just means you get hit because of dedicated servers.
I mean if a survivor is still on the side where they begin to vault when getting shocked, than I think it's only fair that they can't vault the window. However, if if they are right in the middle of the vault, I guess I agree that shouldn't cancel the vault and literally pull you back to where you started vaulting.
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I personally enjoy going against him a lot. His madness status effect that he inflicts to survivors makes him pretty unique, and to me facing him is a lot of fun. He's definitely one of the most unqiue killers in the game, in my opinion.
Everyone has certain killers they dislike going against though, I guess that's unavoidable. I personally don't enjoy going against a Hag.
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@Majora said:
Lol doctor still is a very weak killer. Better tracking and slightlyMore ease of use but his game delay was gutted.
Without add-ons his shock is so easy to dodge and is not even that good at stopping loops against half component survivors. Just an m1 guy with tracking. Just learn how to loop him. If he shocks just keep running since it slows him down still.
In my experience, if you keep running around a loop whenever he shocks you, he will catch up to you and get a hit against you. Now that he doesn't have to switch stances anymore, his shock is so much more effective at loops. That's why I suggested to buff one of his counterplays slightly.
I wouldn't mind a different buff to him as compensation, increasing the time to snap out of it for example.
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@Eye66 said:
They tore madness up, that way more than enough so quit crying. He's easier to beat now anyway
I'm not crying though.
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@WhatIsThatMelody said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032340#Comment_1032340
I've never heard somebody have the idea that a killer should never have to kick a pallet lol. Having safe and unsafe pallets are what adds depth to the game
Of course a map still should have a few safe pallets, but not nearly as many as a lot of the maps have right now. More pallets should be mindgameable, and less safe.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
No nerf needed. Sit back and watch the babies cry, they're not entitled to escaping against doc.
To be fair this small nerf I suggested is not based on my experience of stomping players who aren't that good with survivors yet, but rather on my observation and experience of how Doc works and how well he can counterplay at loops.
But perhaps he might not need any nerf in the end. I would be happy, but if he does need a nerf, I pray BHVR will nerf him by increasing his cooldown after shock therapy, and not in any other way.
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I agree with your second and third point regarding maps. Increasing movement speed of killers wouldn't work though, since the game is balanced around the current movement speed of killers.
The devs have said they know we want smaller maps, and they favor those too. Which is good. I guess they are also still planning on reworking more maps in the future, they wanted to give maps more mindgameable pallets and less safe ones, which is also really good. I do think maps should still have a few safe pallets though.
Maps are the biggest balance problem at the moment. Those and maybe the balancing of the individual killers. I hope they find a good balance between buffing weak killers and making unbalanced maps fairer for killer.
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@TitanByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032551#Comment_1032551
No we do it so we can enjoy the game also, you do alot better facecamping nowadays. The ruin Nerf is definitely apart of this because u could still use other killers u like. Also not once have I stated every survivor is at fault, as a matter of fact I go out of my way to say it's not every survivor in most of my post. But they are the reason. It's just getting a taste of their own medicine, bubba style. This is y we r here to remind survivors that the Bubba gang is a dangerous threat and we will fight back.
I mean what own medicine? They are not in charge for the Ruin nerf.
But if you enjoy that playstyle, of course that's fine. I am not going to condemn anyone who plays like that, I just do think that if people play like that for the weird reason to just make survivors salty, that's probably a sign of some slight mental issues or just them taking a game a bit too serious. Goes for both sides of course. Survivors going out of their way to try and make the experience for killer unfun are just as damaged.
Though I am surprised that you say that you do much better with face camping now, simply because with the Ruin nerf there's no way for killer to slow down the match while camping anymore, allowing survivors to punish a camping killer with gen rush more.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1028291#Comment_1028291
Too fast with the current maps. Killers with zero mobility are screwed over by large maps.
I think that was his point though. The problem isn't the gens and how fast they can be repaired, the problem is unbalanced maps that are too big and weak killers with no mobility to apply map pressure.
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@NullEXE said:
I take back all my thoughts on the rework for Doctor being a nerf. In no way, at all, was this a nerf. I couldn't play doctor before, and never really put in the time to learn how. Kept him at level 1, only used him for the easy "Shock 4 ppl lul" daily. Well just used him since the rework to get the Doctor Archive. Whoa and behold. Here I am with new Doctor in hand. Saw other people play him. Well let's see how this works.
I proceeded to potato stomp 3 redranks, and a level 6 purple rank all with meta perks, with a level 1 doctor w/ Monitor and Abuse.
I ######### you ######### not.
Now i'm not saying he's OP, i'm not saying to nerf him.
but no seriously that is broken af - nerf soonI mean I really don't think he is op or anything. Definitely not broken. All I think is that he might need a bit better counterplay for survivors, that's all. An increased cooldown to his shock therapy would achieve this.
But in general I think he is a very well balanced killer. Fairly good map pressure with his strong tracking ability, and strong in chases.
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@LordGlint said:
If the killer has counterplay, which you claim he does...and hes not overpowered, which you claim hes not...why do you wanna nerf him?
Because I am simply worried that it isn't enough counterplay. Like he has counterplay, but it's hard to tell if it's a fair amount or just very little counterplay that he has.
In that case people will catch on to this sooner or later, and that's why I wanted to make a post about how I think Doctor should be nerfed if it comes to that. Perhaps I'm just a bit paranoid that the devs will make a mistake and the Doctor will end up with a Legion treatement, even though I don't actually believe that would happen.
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@TitanByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032427#Comment_1032427
Exactly LF brings the fear back into the horror game, along with salt......lots and lots of salt #bubbagang
Be honest. Isn't that why you play him like that? To make survivors salty? Simply because you are salty over the Ruin change and blame every survivor for that nerf?
If not then I apoligize, I've just seen quite a few posts about facecamping, especially as Bubba, because of the Ruin nerf. And don't get me wrong, camping is a viable strategy that is allowed. Made up rules don't need to be followed by anyone. I just think it's a bit extreme when people do this just to frustrate survivor players because of the Ruin nerf. It's a little hilarious honestly.
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It's pretty low for me at the moment. I do tend to play more of the actual viable killers though. But I'm having a lot of fun. The only real frustration I feel is when the bugged sound screws over my match, though I do feel like it has improved with the latest patch a bit.
But I really wish the rank system was better, matchmaking was fixed and the rank reset changes from a fewpatches ago were reverted.
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@OmegaXII said:
I played doctor very much after he came out. Yes, his shock can deny any actions, but it has many flaws.
1. In some long loops, if i use shock, i won't catch up to them. Also, my range is not long enough to catch them before they get to the pallet.
2. Doc needs to shock survivors way earlier than the action survivor is about to do. If not, they still can throw down pallet or fast vault even they scream just before it. For base range, this is very difficult because too early, the deny duration expires, too late, they vault. You need to have a close distance to survivors to do this
3. Using shock loses resets your blood lust, even if it missed if i'm not wrong.
4. In very close range, you can dodge his shock very easily, like shocking survivors through some loop with a fence
If they increases the duration of deny or longer range, i would agree with the longer cooldown, but nerfing him without compensation is not good
I think you make some great points, and it makes me hopeful that the discussion of Doctor not having enough counterplay will never actually happen. Though I do think that the bigger a pallet loop is, the better it is for Doctor, assuming he has already been close enough to the survivor to shock him when he approached the pallet a first time.
You're definitely right with the second point. Especially with how maps are procedurally generated, you won't always be able to tell where a pallet is coming up early enough to shock a survivor.
I also didn't know that he does not get Bloodlust when using his shock, that's good.
Your forth point is also right, but that's the one aspect I wanted to buff a bit for survivors. Right now, dodging his shock therapy won't do anything in most cases since dodging his shock therapy also means survivors outposition themselves, which means the Doctor will get a hit against the survivor anyways. By increasing the cooldown, survivors will have slightly more time to reach the pallet they are looping and use it against Doctor if they managed to dodge Doctor's shock therapy, despite them getting outpositioned because he can't attack them for a short period of time after using shock therapy.
But maybe this nerf won't be needed. I do agree that an increased range to his shock therapy would be a good compensation for this nerf, should have mentioned that.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032060#Comment_1032060
Maybe because it's too early to say if he needs a nerf or buff now?
Perhaps. Like I said, I don't want this nerf to happen immediately. Just from all the experience I've gathered with Doctor up until now, I feel like a nerf might happen in the future, simply because I fear more and more people will start arguing that Doctor doesn't have enough counterplay, which is why I made this thread, to suggest what nerf I would like to see.
This thread wasn't done just because I feel like I lose against Doctor too many times within this short period of time. I made this thread based on my experience and observation of playing as Doctor, and I explain why exactly I think this nerf would be good, and what exactly this nerf would affect. I'm not saying I am right, just what change I would probably like to see for the Doctor, at least if more people start complaining about doctor, because I feel like I've gathered quite a bit of experience and knowledge with the new Doctor and how he works the last couple of days.
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@EverflowingRiver said:
So you want to give him the Legion treatment? And only 2 paragraphs of your whole post was necessary to make your point.
Yeah no not really. This certainly wouldn't be the Legion treatement, heck I even explain why this wouldn't be a big nerf in my main post. I guess you didn't understand the idea of this nerf and why I think it might need to be done in the future, but that's fine.
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Isn't the risk for survivors that they don't find the totem and have to deal with a particularly strong perk effect the entire match?
At least that's how I understand Hex: Perks. They are risky to use because survivors can disable them if they cleanse the associated totem but these perks come with a particularly powerful effect that if not removed can have a big impact on the matches outcome, especially the longer they stay active.
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@GoshJosh said:
Static Blast was a completely unnecessary and poor decision for this rework. All they needed to do was what they did to shock therapy, and that was to remove the need to change his stance between punishment and treatment. Static Blast is such a jokingly easy detection ability with a brief cooldown - and if that wasn't enough, it also inflicts madness.
And yes, I play both sides. Almost all of my Doctor matches have ended in 4ks or near slaughter of the survivors. It's way too easy. I would keep nearly everything the same but remove Static Blast.
So just Doctor the way he is now without the Static Blast?
I personally think Doctor is very well balanced at the moment. I do make the argument that his cooldown after using shock therapy should be increased to 2 or 2.5 seconds, but that's it, and that's just my early opinion on him anyways.
His static blast allows him to actually apply a fair amount of map pressure without having mobility, simply because he can find survivors more easily. But I dont find that to make him op at all. I would heavily disagree with removing his static blast. His map pressure combined with his good chase potential is exactly what makes him actually viable in my opinion. But definitely not op. It's good to have more viable killers in this game.
The static blast also increasing survivors madness tier by 1 is also nothing too powerful in my opinion. The effects that are applied to survivors while in madness tier 2 are really not that strong or overwhelming in any way, and madness tier 3 is now also less of a threat because survivors can snap out of it more easily.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032025#Comment_1032025
I agree that an increase in Charge Time would be too much, I think that new Doc is quite fragile, at least currently. And a Charge Time increase might indeed break him.
But I would disagree that his Shock Therapy was useless in a chase. It was much harder to use, but not useless. You needed to be spot-on with your Switches between Modes and Shock Timing.
And one thing is still the same - it is quite inconsistent, sometimes the Survivor still makes the Window, sometimes they get set back mid-Vault. But this Inconsistency had a bigger impact when his Shock Therapy was harder to use.
Useless is a bit much, I admit. It was helpful against window loops, especially god windows, and it probably was helpful at pallet loops if the loop was particularly big, like the really long Coldwin Farm loops.
It was also really good at killer shack, though now it's even better. But to me his shock therapy just wasn't helpful at enough pallet loops for Doctor to be even nearly viable, and now it is.
The inconsistency still sucks a bit, but now it's much more doable to just shock survivors early enough.
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Any reasoning for why you disagree with my nerf suggestion? And keep in mind I do understand that it's too early to nerf Doctor right away, this is just about what change I believe the Doc will still need, based on my observations on how effective his shock therapy works at loops, which I explained in my thread.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123936/one-tiny-nerf-to-doctor
Doc is still too early to even be nerfed.
Also all this buff did was make him from low tier to mid tier killer, he's not even an A tier killer.
If we were to do a nerf this early one, like BHVR did to Oni, it would basically end the Doc
But as I said this is more just a thread about what nerf I believe the Doctor will need. I'm not saying they are supposed to nerf Doc now. This is especially about what nerf I think the Doctor should receive if BHVR decided that he needed a small nerf. Because I feel like he could easily be nerfed in a wrong way, hurting him way too much.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would also say that it is too early. Give Survivors time to adapt to new Doc, he is out for a few days only and once everyone got used to new Doc, a Nerf (if needed) can be considered.
Things should not get rushed, because it can easily destroy Doctor again. I think he is really strong, but I cannot figure out if he is TOO strong or just right. I think when he is on Live for a few weeks or months, more can be said about it, but I feel when there is a Change quite soon, it might be too much.
It also looks quite bad to rework a Killer and nerf him again afterwards. The Devs also took their time with Freddys Slowdown Add-Ons, so I guess the same will happen with Doc. But nothing should be rushed here.
I do agree that it's too early to nerf him now. This thread was just about my experience and my opinion what might need to be done to Doctor in the future. I think I am just worried that they nerf Doctor in a way that will make him much weaker again.
I've seen the suggestion to increase his shock therapy charge time, and I feel like that would be a terrible way to nerf him. Because it would either just increase the amount of times a Doctor needs to loop around a pallet loop while shocking the survivor everytime they approach the pallet again before he catches up to the survivor to get a hit, or if the charge time is increased too much, his shock therapy will end up being just as useless in chases as it was before the rework.
An increased cooldown on the other hand will simply make one certain counterplay of survivors a bit more viable, which I think would be the far better way to nerf him since that counterplay takes skill.
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@Pennosuke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1031677#Comment_1031677
I don't think that increased Shock Therapy cooldown longer than 2 seconds is a good idea.
Since his pre-rework cooldown was 2 seconds and it's really clunky to use so that is the reason why dev decrease cooldown to 1.5 seconds.
I already read your comment about "...The difference here is that you don't move slower while the cooldown is active..." but I want to say that the duration that doctor moving slower is still stay at the same.
I tried him for 4-5 games and I'm really glad that he is a high tier killer now but also agree that Shock Therapy is a little bit too strong, you can easily change short-loop into a deadzone, a way moooooore easily than clown and freddy.
IMO if I really have to nerf him, I have 2 ideas (choose one of these to nerf, not all of these)
- Shock Therapy cooldown should be more than 1.5 seconds but should less than 2 seconds
- reduced survivor shocked duration to 2 seconds to make the remaining time to hit a survivor before the shock wears off stay at the same (1 second).
With decreased movement speed I didn't mean the movement speed while charging your shock therapy. But old Doc had to always switch to Treatment mode to use his shock therapy, and in that mode he only moved at 110M/S.
I guess reducing the duration of the shock could also work, but that's a nerf to Doctor that is not tied into the counterplay of survivors. The increased cooldown would give survivors a bit more of a chance to use a pallet or vault against the Doctor if the survivor manages to dodge the shock. So the pay off is pretty much just a bit more likely if the survivor manages to dodge the shock therapy attack of survivors. And dodging the shock therapy is counterplay to the Doctor.
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1031693#Comment_1031693
Oh please. It's not about killers "never being nerfed" you sanctimonious donkey. It's about the fact that for the last 4 months it's been repeated ######### killer nerfs. So instead of having knee jerk reactions and expecting garbage survivors to be constantly catered to, maybe the community should let the doctor rework settle for a minute without making "nerf this killer because I'm a ######### noob" threads for five damn seconds? He literally JUST got reworked and the entire point of the design was to make him EASIER FOR SURVIVORS TO DEAL WITH. Everything he does has a way to defeat it. You just can't loop him on autopilot which is something survivors have always struggled with understanding.
I try to be civil but this forum community is just. Ugh. The amount of one sided BS is getting old. And I think you're wrong about survivor complaint threads not leading to nerfs. Every nerf has had complaint threads previously. Even if the thing wasn't actually OP, and survivors just "don't like it".
Your behaviour is absolutely ridiculous. And if you think of me as someone who just wants a killer nerfed because they are a noob, then I can just laugh. I've thoroughly explained why I think this small nerf would be fine for Doctor, if people choose not to read the thread fine. Just don't accuse me of wanting Doc nerfed just because I am a noob.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Oh dear ad19970 I do pity you. You’ve just opened yourself up to 10 pages full of abuse for even suggesting a slight killer nerf based on your experience. You know the rules of the dbd forums, killer nerfs must NEVER be mentioned.
I’ve noticed that pretty much every Doc I go against gets the 4k. His static blast when spammed as often as possible can be a little but irritating too. He’s not a killer I hate going against however.
I feel like its still too early to say whether he’s a little bit too strong or not. On one hand survivors need to learn the best counterplay and need some experience going against him. On the other hand new killers often do poorly as players are inexperienced at using them yet Doc is going well. Doc is different though as he instantly feels familiar but is so much more powerful.
I’m not worried though. Unlike most here I have confidence that people are monitoring the data on Doc and will tweak accordingly if there are any problems.
It's been fine until now though. All replies have been nice and civil.
Personally, most Docs I've been going against have actually only gotten 1k or 0k. But from my own experience as Doctor, I do feel like this one change to Doctor will be needed. It's true though that it's still very early to say if this really is the case. Especially considering that many people even didn't know how to play against the old Doctor, probably because he played much differently to other killers and barely ever got played at high ranks.
The only thing I'm just slightly worried about is that BHVR might feel the need to nerf him, and then nerf him in a different way. Like increasing his shock therapy charge time, which would be awful in my opinion. That nerf would either just force him to run around a loop more times before he can catch up to survivors, which means it will weaken his chase potential slightly, but totally detatched from any counterplay of survivors, or if the charge time is increased too much, he'll just turn into old Doc with survivors being able to run him around pallet loops infinitely if he continues to try and shock survivors when they approach pallets.
An increased cooldown on the other hand simply buffs an interesting counterplay to him, which is exactly what I would like to see to him. But I do believe that the devs at BHVR do realise this as well if they decide to nerf him in some way.
In the end a killer's balance simply comes down to whether survivors have the chance to survive in chases long enough for their team mates to make an impactful progression on gens, while considering the killer's map pressure, stealth capabilties and tracking potential. And if that's the case, the question is whether survivors can survive in chases long enough because of skillful counterplay, or because the killer's power forces the killer to take too long to chase a survivor. Old legion is the perfect example for the latter, where as Nurse probably is a great example for the former. Increasing Doctor's shock therapy charge time would buff survivors, but in a way that fits in the latter category, while increasing the cooldown of Doctor's shock therapy would buff survivors in a way that fits the former category.
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@emeraldx107 said:
Don't think this is a good idea. The reason his cooldown was reduced Is because it was longer than the survivors scream animation lock (which is like 2.5 seconds). I love the doctor but he is not A tier. To be in the higher end of killers, you have to have some kind of mobility tool (which he doesn't). They increased the range of his shock but its still not very wide. Would have liked them get rid of moldy electrode and make it basekit. The shock still takes a second to connect with the survivor after you release it. Giving him a longer cooldown would mean the survivors would be free from the animation lock before you could attack them and are able to do what you tried to prevent them from doing. This was the original issue and would defeat the purpose of the shock therapy mid chase.
You've got that wrong. The delay of Doctor's shock therapy is 1 second. Then, it shocks survivors for 2.5 seconds. That means survivors that get shocked are shocked until 3.5 seconds have gone by after using your shock therapy. If the cooldown was 2.5 seconds, the Doctor would still have 1 second timne to hit a survivor before the shock weares off from them.
That's why this increased cooldown would only come in to play when survivors manage to dodge your shock therapy. It would simply make the counterplay of dodging the Doctor's shock therapy slightly more viable. I guess I should add this to my main post.
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People who can't deal with other people's opinions and get offensive about it are not to be takenb seriously. Never, ever. You just can't.
Of course, if the statement they seem to be offensive against is offensive itself, or provocative, then that doesn't really apply anymore, because it's not just an opinion they are replying to at that point.
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@joeyrou said:
How about instead of nerfing killer again, we fix that one issue where survivors have 60 seconds of immunity, nah who ######### cares about that
Are you talking about DS? Because this doesn't have anything to do with DS. Not even in the slightest.
This one nerf I am suggesting doesn't exclude other balance changes, and doesn't have anything else to do with other balance changes. Meaning, bringing up DS in this thread is totally off topic and useless.
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@TAG said:
Considering that (according to Peanits, I think?) the original pre-rework time between when you could shock and when you could attack was 2 seconds total (including the time needed to switch between Treatment and Punishment mode), I feel like nerfing it back to that time risks making him bad like he was before.
The difference here is that you don't move slower while the cooldown is active. That was the main problem of Doc. He also had to wait a very short time after shocking before he could switch stances again.
In fact, increasing his cooldown would do absolutely nothing if you as the Doctor manage to hit a survivor with his shock. In this case, the survivor is shocked, can't use any vault or pallet, and you can still just follow him with your normal movement speed while the survivor keeps running. Your cooldown ends before the shock of the survivor ends, and you will get a hit against the survivor if you catch up to the survivor enough. Absolutely nothing changes as long as the cooldown doesn't overlast the shock of the survivor. And nobody wants that because that would make his shock therapy so laughably useless.
The only thing a higher cooldown changes, is that it gives survivors slightly more time to reach a pallet or vault before the Doctor can attack the survivor after using his shock therapy, if survivors manage to avoid the shock therapy. Which is why I think this would be a healthy change to Doctor, and the only proper way to nerf him if he does need a nerf. Because this is simply a change that allows for some more skill based counterplay. And in return, will also afford some more skill based counterplay of the Doctor player. Not that he doesn't take any skill, I do think he does, but this would just add some more skill based play for the Doctor.
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@DawnMad said:
I'm not disagreeing with you and I haven't faced enough Doctors to have a solid idea about this. As far as I've seen, the 1.5 sec cooldown he has and the slowdown he gets while charging his ability gives you enough time to react in most cases. If you were able to counter him in every situation that could remove his loop potential, which would be really bad for the killer. But again, I'm not sure if a small tweak would be for the better or the worse.
I just wanna add that the stun survivors get after shocking is around 2 seconds as well, Doctor's cooldown was deliberately lowered below the survivors because previously it let survivors drop pallets before the Doctor was able to even attempt attacking them.
Undrestandable. But if the cooldown isn't too high, survivors would only be able to counter his shock therapy if they are close enough to a pallet or vault anyways. Here's the thing. Shock therapy has a 1 second delay, that means, when the shock actually hits, Doctor only has a 0.5 seconds cooldown left. So avoiding his shock therapy will never be useful if it forces survivors to become outpositioned, and in most cases, this does.
Increasing his cooldown to 2 seconds or 2.5 seconds will give survivors 1 or 1.5 seconds to reach a pallet or vault before the Doctor can attack again. Also, the shock lasts 2.5 seconds, and it starts one second after shock therapy was released. Which means even if the cooldown was 2.5 seconds, the Doctor still would have 1 second to hit a survivor before the shock ends on the survivor.
Also, Doc still would be able to try and predict a survivor avoiding his shock therapy, or he could just fake his shock therapy. So I'm pretty sure his shock therapy would still be very useful in chases. the last thing I want is that his shock therapy becomes fairly useless in chases again. Which is why I don't want them to increase the charge time of his shock therapy.
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The rework was so fantastic in my opinion. He now actually feels like a rank1 viable killer, who is actually viable even against extremely good survivors. And I never thought I would ever be able to say this about the Doctor.
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@Sleephartha said:
If I really need to clarify.... you can’t decimate a decent team as billy right off the bat. It takes time to figure out the steering and timing etc. Nurse should be obvious. Freddy seems to take a lot of work... placing traps, teleporting... chasing. But with doc it’s just Static blast, then chase. And he’s 4k ing a lot. I dunno... just my impression.
I mean if Doc is decimating a team right off the bat, the survivor team probably wasn't that good.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030686#Comment_1030686
yeah but i apply enough pressure that they dont get any gens popped, the closest they have gotten to getting them all done with me is 2 gens left.
His static blast is a nice way too apply map pressure, though if survivors really are striggling with doing gens against a Doc, it's probably also due to their mistakes. Doctor doesn't have any mobility, so he can't pressure gens too much.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i know and some people can loop me for a good minute, but i feel like his primary power should have a little bit of a longer charge time.
Please no increased charge time. I think the one change Doc could use is having his cooldown after shock therapy increased from 1.5 seconds to two seconds. Increasing his shock therapy charge time just has the potential to make his shock therapy useless at pallet loops again.
Also, if survivors are able to loop you for a good minute, that doesn't sound like Doc is op. Looping a killer for one minute can already be pretty bad for the killer.
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@TKTK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026866#Comment_1026866
Well i'm glad i don't have to type this.
Apart from his addons which will probably get changed anyway I think base billy is one of the more balanced killers.
I wouldn't mind a nerf to insta saw billy, and other adjustments to his addons. I just hope they don't touch his base kit.
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@Zenro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026523#Comment_1026523
Reasons to do totems is a nerf to Hex perks though which you want NOT to be found.
I mean fine then they shouldn't add a second objective for survivors. They could make other adjustments to Hex Perks to not make them too weak though.
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@EntityDrudge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026523#Comment_1026523
All that means is more points for totems which no one will care about. And the maps will never fully happen. Tool box might get a slight, barely noticeable nerf. I can see that
As long as they don't stop reworking maps, we will be getting more and more maps that are balanced, which will help killers a lot. they just need to speed up the frequency at which they rework maps.
Did they say that would be the only thing they do with totems? If not, than we can't know that for sure.
No idea what they'll do with Toolboxes, but I hope it'll be noticeable enough.
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I don't get the argument that survivors can't always use Jungle Jyms or Infinite Loops. Of course that's not the case cause otherwise killers would be useless. I mean infinites, if one wants to call them like that, shouldn't even exist. But Jungle Jyms and other good loops do exist, and Billy doesn't have much in form of anti loop, which makes him balanced in my opinion. If survivors were able to use jungle jyms all game, he'd be pretty useless.
Even at mindgameable pallets, if you play it right, you'll only give him the possibility to M1 you and that's it.
In my opinion, Hillbilly is perfectly balanced. He has really good map pressure, an instadown ability which is good, and small mindgame potential at pallets with his chainsaw. Pallets and vaults are still very effective against him, as he can't really counter loops. I also disagree that he takes too little skill. You still need to know how to run tiles and counterplay at loops with him just as with any other M1 killer, controlling his chainsaw optimally and insta downing survivors can also be a bit tricky, and curving is very hard to pull of.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026523#Comment_1026523
I guarantee you there would be a huge uproar if they got survivors doing totems because then killer mains would lose their NOED. They’ll complain its worthless and needs a buff.
They don’t want survivors doing totems. They want their free kill perk.
I doubt it. Pretty sure most killer mains would be happy if they gained more time by extending survivors objective time with dull totems, and wouldn't mind if NOED would be removed more frequently.
I guess if dull totems ever gain more significance as an actual second objective for survivors, BHVR would rework NOED anyways. I personally don't mind NOED at all, but even if I did, I wouldn't want NOED to be changed yet since it's almost the only reason for survivors to cleanse dull totems aside from gaining Blood Points, and Blood Points do not affect the outcome of a match in any way.
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To me the gen times feel fine if I am playing one of the stronger killers and don't get one of the really unbalanced maps.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026304#Comment_1026304
This has to have something to do with paving the way to slowing down gens in some way. No other explanation would make sense to me.
I mean, they will slow down gens indirectly when or if they make maps smaller. The smaller a map, the better a killer can keep survivors off of gens.
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@mistar_z said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1026453#Comment_1026453
for example right now ruin's automatic regression makes it imposible to use pop goes the weasel, by locking out ability to damage generators. other slow down perks will be reworked like that in the future, they might make things like thano and sloopy or dying light not work together.
Ok so no stacking I guess? I feel like they should just add a cap for how much debuff effects can stack with each other and that's it, instead of removing the stacking entirely, if that ends up being their plan.
Still curious how they would want to nerf the synergy between any of the perks that slow down repair speed and PGTW though. Cause survivors repairing gens slower can't somehow cancel out PGTW.