ad19970
ad19970
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That would honestly just be horrible. Its already pretty strong with enduring. That would make pallets way too weak against killers with that perk, especially pallets that are only really useful when you get a stun against the killer.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1445228#Comment_1445228
Basekit? Barebone Billy to strong? These are noobs. Addons ok, but basekit Billy was to weak sometimes.
Yes dismissing anyone who argues that basekit Billy is too strong as noobs won't really get many people to take you serious. Maybe at least attempt to understand where other people are coming from. If you don't, that's fine, but you need to accept that they still have their own opinion just like you have your own opinion.
And this game isn't only about you and your opinion on balance.
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How ridiculous. This has nothing to do with manipulation. BHVR is just trying to listen to both sides, not just the people that think Billy is completely fine right now before his nerf. And now they are trying to listen to feedback by toning down the nerf, to try and make as many people happy as possible. Many people here are just smart enough to understand that this game isn't only about them.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1445045#Comment_1445045
Or, or we can just allow people to post as they please and not make them feel bad about doing so from both sides. Killers or Survivors it doesn’t matter. Also, and I’m sure there are others who added to this list who aren’t as active on here that knew or even thought this was a thread was made to play a counterpart another thread. Therefore, we shouldn’t be targeted. Who knows if OP even knew. You shouldn’t assume. I’m not even being malicious here, I’m speaking out of graciousness. I want the community to get better.
Yes exactly, but what you describe in your first sentence is exactly what these two threads are doing. Also, here is the other thread that this thread is responding to:
@Sylorknag said:
Survivors love throwing around the word unfun as a means to justify "changes" for some some killers.
Well then, I think it's just fair we also enlight'em on all the things that are really "unfun" to go against as killers.
I'll start the list.
1. SWF, now, who doesn't love a massive buff that literally breaks the game, without any negatives? Any killer facing this is sure to have a hell of a "good time".
It has the exact same wording without exception. I honestly doubt that's a coincidence.
And I am not targeting everyone who is posting on this thread. I am targeting this constant survivor vs killer behaviour. And the fact that people deal with other people's opinions in such childish ways.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444132#Comment_1444132
They shouldn't have changed him the first place.
Yes but they try to listen to both sides and make as many people as possible happy. And there certainly were people that felt like Billy's base kit was just a bit too strong.
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@TheVVitch said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444984#Comment_1444984
It's a forum meme to make a counter post not really anything unique to the dbd forums. Is it childish? Probably.
It's good to get both sides of the conversation though even if the initial reason for posting was a bit childish.
That's at least true.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444977#Comment_1444977
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444984#Comment_1444984
I’m sorry, but everyone has the right to post what they want in the forums as long as it’s within the rules and guidelines of DBD Forums. I came into this thread with nothing but wholesome thoughts. None of us are asking for confrontation so please stop taking it as such and bringing that negative energy over people having different opinions than yours.
This thread has the sole purpose of being a direct counterpart to the thread about what is unfun for killers, as a mean to make that thread look ridiculous. If you want to argue that people should be allowed to voice their opinions no matter what, you could start with this thread. On the other hand, the thread that this thread is more or less a response to, is also just a response to the complaints survivor mains voice about killers, in the hopes of ridiculing those complaints, which is also stupid. Your argument that people should not be confronted disrespectfully for voicing their own opinion can be perfectly applied to both these threads.
So let's be honest here, this really just feels like kindergarten behaviour at this point, not that that's something rare to find on these forums.
If you really want anyone to be able to voice their opinion no matter what, and that's totally correct as that's what these forums are for, then you should look at the root of the problem. Which is all the people here on these fourms not being able to deal with the opinion of other people.
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@Nerfkiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444130#Comment_1444130
But his base kit was balanced thou there kinda half assing the whole thing why don't they care about Billy that's there boy
Some people would argue his base kit isn't completely balanced, which is probably why BHVR is trying to limit his chainsaw usage just a bit without hurting his performance potential in any significant way.
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I would add gen rush to the list, but people have been complaining about that for years.
While I do kinda agree that it is a bit dumb to literally demand and expect a killer to be nerfed just because one doesn't like going against them, if this post is about ridiculing the complaints survivor mains have towards killers, you should really pay more attention to all the killer main complaints that can be seen on these forums every day.
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If this is a post as a respond for the same thread that was made about what is unfun for killers, and I highly believe it is, then I would argue these forums have officially become a new kindergarten.
Holy hell.
And no, I am not defending the other post, because that post is also ridiculous as is.
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@SambaSaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444882#Comment_1444882
Well that is the problem because good billys back revv and mindgame you. Now if billy makes a small mistake he is punished grately.
Well I believe that won'tt be the case now that they are toning down the nerf to Billy greatly. People will still be able to use his chainsaw effectively in chases, just with a small limit if they misplay too much.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444871#Comment_1444871
The community keeps tearing them down because they said themselves Billy is fine yet continue the changes.
All there needs to be done is removing his Insta-Saw and Double Engravings. That's it. Instead, they're wasting resources on these changes, not adjusting match making, wasting resources on bringing the game to STADIA, who the hell asked for that?
The new addons are a joke, the .5 seconds when you rev his chainsaw to 100% to let out a scream before he takes off makes no sense. Do you want to see more Spirits and Freddies? Hell no, but if the changes to live without proper tweaks and changes, you bet I'll be playing Spirit over Billy.
No doubt it was bad wording, but I'm pretty sure their thought process with this nerf is that they still want to keep Billy functioning and performing as he does now, but sttill just give him a bit of a limit to his chainsaw usage. There definitely have been people complaining about Billy being too strong and their voices can be heard as well. One of the main complaints I have seen regarding Billy is that he can just use his chainsaw as much as he wants, whenever he wants. This nerf will limit the usage of his chainsaw just a bit while still allwoing him to perform very well when played properly.
I understand why some people think Billy should not be changed, but I personally think it's fine that he is getting this small nerf. I do agree that some of his addons are completely useless, and need some changing for sure.
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Killers have received many buffs over the past time as well, the argument of Billy getting a small nerf warrants a nerf to DS doesn't really make sense.
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I think denying it is fine, now that the overheat values have been reduced and it's way easier to simply not overheat the weapon. I think good Billys will easily be able to manage the overheat of Billys chainsaw, so having the chainsaw being disable for 12 seconds or whatever the time is for overheating your weapon is a fair punishment.
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I think this game definitely needs some nerf to camping, but I would argue that's not the way to do it.
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I really don't think Huntress needs any nerf, and I also don't think that Hag needs any buff. I agree that Freddy could use some small nerfs maybe, but adding another cooldown to his other power is not the way to go in my opinion.
Wraith being completely insvisible would be good, but only if it was only after a certain distance. Otherwise chases against him might become a bit too unfair. And Clown needs some kind of map pressure increase, his chase potential in my opinion is already powerful enough, making the bottles damage a survivor would be too much.
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@Kruegersleatherface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/172001/wow-bhvr-thats-it
I'm thinking they'll either become oni or leather face mains. It sucks that dead by daylight is so survivor sided
How is this game so survivor sided? The game literally received and update just a few months ago with a bunch of map changes that all benefited killers. Many other killers have also been buffed in the past, like Freddy or Doctor. And Leatherface is also receiving a buff in the same patch that Hillbilly is receiving a nerf. And now we know that they are also heavily toning down the nerf for Hillbilly as well.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1444203#Comment_1444203
Ptb comes out, Killers complain Hillbilly is weak, survivors complain Leatherface is strong. Not shocked at all which one gets listened to and which one gets ignored.
Now they finally nerf Hillbilly and not only are they caving to killer main pressure yet again and giving them their ez mode killer back, but Peanits just said addons could change too so yay for a new version of instasaw which is what Hillbilly players want deep down.
I’m not even surprised anymore. The killer main community on here has the company wrapped around their little finger yet they act like they’re persecuted everytime they don’t get exactly what they want.
It's still a nerf, just not as big. The overheat in the ptb certainly was too much since it limited Billys chainsaw usage too much. His chainsaw power is no doubt strong, but having too many restrictions on that power is not good either. I think video footage showed that quite well.
Also, have there really been many complaints about Leatherface? I really don't feel like he'll even end up as a top tier killer or anything. Except maybe for his red addons combo which was confirmed to be a bug.
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This has to be a bad joke. He will now generate about 60% less heat when feathering his chainsaw, that is pretty big. It shows that BHVR does listen to feedback, unlike what some salty killer mains want you to believe.
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I do feel like the devs have listened to feedback of the ptb before, for sure, like when Oni was prettty broken in the ptb, or Spirit getting buffs since she was too weak in the ptb.
I still understand why the devs did nerf Nurse despite the feedback, but I do actually think the devs will listen to feedback to lessen the overheat values so Billys chainsaw will overheat slower than it does on the ptb. But I'm of course not sure about that.
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I think the corn itself is fine. I like the element of stealth it adds to the maps.
For me the real problem is the sound. 7 months now and the sound is still utter crap and bugged like hell. Which is ridiculous considering how important sound is to the gameplay of the game. You can't hear survivors running 3 meters in front of you.
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I'm still not sure if it's completely confirmed, but i think the devs are working on an early game phase to prolong the general length of matches.
However, the higher tier killers are arguably already viable, on most maps now actually after the patch with the changes to maps, and they will probably even need some small nerfs if matches are prolonged in any way.
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Personally I think they are all good. DS and Borrowed Time in particular are important perks for this game. Barely ever have a problem with those perks.
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Killer with instadowns are balanced around their potential to instadown survivors. So I wouldn't classify them as unfair if that's what you are going by when comparing them to second chance perks.
On the other hand, I also think every one of the second chance perks that survivors have are balanced.
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@ClickyClicky said:
and there we go 😂😂😂 ITS ALL THE SURVIVORS FAULT!! You didnt see the Oni coming around the corner at 200mph!
Meanwhile killer fails to pressure gens or gets greedy in chased and its never the killers fault they get genrushed against a good team.
Let's be honest, would you really say the survivors played optimally in that video? They certainly didn't mess up nearly as much as some people would probably argue, but they didn't play that well either.
I think the bigger problem is that when people see these videos where the killer gets gen rushed within a few minutes, they don't try to see what the killer could have done better to not get gen rushed as fast. And one of the problems with that is that it's not as easy to judge if a killer applied map pressure well or not, since that's something you can't get much feedback on. But of course many people also sadly just ignore mistakes made by the killer when it comes to those gen rush videos as well.
Also, I would argue that Oni's slugging potential is a bit too powerful anyways.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1437149#Comment_1437149
Dunno how long until people realise this:
If the killer wins in the first 5 minutes, the survivors played trash.
If the survivors win in the first 5 minutes (or more), either A) The killer was trash, or B) The survivors genrushed to high hell
There is absolutely nothing in this game that makes you win as killer in under 5 min against a good squad, nothing. As much as you might want to deny it, the survivors were trash.
True but if a killer gets gen rushed within 5 minutes he most likely didn't play well either, unless maybe he got really, really unlucky. Good survivor teams won't be able to get all gens done in 5 minutes either if the killer player is good and is at least playing one of the better killers in this game.
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I guess people overuse the argument boring when it comes to killers, and I always find it to be ridiculous when people say they dc when they have to go against certain killers, but in general people have the right to find certain killers boring. Everyone has killers they don't enjoy going against. However it gets pretty laughable as soon as people think those killers need major changes just because they don't like going against them, not considering the people that do enjoy going against those killers.
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I think now thatPyramid Head can't see the cages aura it's fine the way it is. If they did that they should make cages work with all perks that are affected by hooks, and that would become quite complicated I guess.
The one thing the devs still really need to change in my opinion is to have the tormented status effect removed from a survivor if Pyramid Head hooks the survivor. Right now he can just hook a tormented survivor and then tunnel him off the hook without having to fear DS at all.
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There have definitely been people that do think Billy needed a nerf, and I can definitely understand. Of course some killer mains will go overboard with a change like this, just like some survivor mains went crazy because of the map changes.
I think the idea behind the nerf was too limit the chainsaw usage of Billy just a bit, since it is so powerful. Yu can traverse the map with the chainsaw insanely quick and you can just insta down any survivor that you catch off guard, or even at loops if played right. I guess this nerf was supposed to help with Billy feeling so oppressive and being able to snowball like crazy. That and they probably wanted to decrease his camping potential.
However I do agree that this nerf on the ptb is too much. They need to tone the overheating of his weapon down to not limit him as much.
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I do think Spirit is a problem, and while Deathslinger isn't op, it's hard to argue that he has proper and fun counterplay. However just nerfing these killers won't do it, especially Doctor and Pyramid Head who are certainly not op. If the devs did that, I can tell you people would go crazy. Just look at how crazy people are going because of the billy nerf.
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I actually think it's one of the most balanced maps in the game, with many interesting and fun loops. I guess someone like Freddy or Spirit could be slightly op on that map though.
The saloon is actually pretty good for survivors with a very good generator. It's probably best to keep that gen so it ends up being one of the last three gens.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1418051#Comment_1418051
So why will overheat be introduced in the first place then?
To limit the use of his chainsaw only slightly. It's not supposed to be an impactful nerf, it's just so Billy players can't spam their chainsaw too much, because it is such a strong power. Which is also great against his camping potential.
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Don't think I've ever seen someone call Franklin's Demise toxic before. Then again I've seen someone say Plague is toxic so nothing like that should really surprise me.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1417462#Comment_1417462
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1417447#Comment_1417447
I didn't ask to judge him with his best build (that's rarely used, because it needs a lot of skill and training). I asked how the @ad19970 would rate flick billy after the nerf.
I'll explain the issue most people have with the billy nerf again, just for you guys.
Like at least one of you realised, flick billy gets nerfed the most by this "slight change", because one engraving would go for more overheat.
Why do we nerf te most skillfull billy build, but keep cheesy builds like instasaw SF+Enduring Bamboozle?
I'm sure if the overheat has too much of an negative impact on being able to play curve Hillbilly effectively, they'll tone the overheat down.
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The one problem with balancing around the killers base kit is that addons then can not make the killer any stronger at all, otherwise the killer immediately becomes op when played with addons if the killer is balanced and viable without addons. If every addon had just as big of a downside as an upside, this would work, but that's not how the addons are designed and that would most likely be insanely hard to balance when considering the amount of killer addons in the game.
Also, I have often seen many complaints about the addons of some of the newer killers not being good enough as well, which is pretty much the exact opposite direction of trying to balance the killer only around their base kit.
Regarding Billy, I definitely have seen people say that his base kit needs a small nerf as well, since he has so much going for him. I think the nerf is fine, as long as the overheat isn't to significant. If the chainsaw overheats too fast, his loop potential will be hurt too much, which of course isn't good, but giving him a small limit on his power usage is not a bad thing in my opinion.
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Pretty sure if the overheat turns out to be way too fast then the devs will make changes to that, so Billy doesn't actually become weak at loops.
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Survivors can just pick maps that are strong for them. So if anything, the killer should get a vote as well.
But in general I highly disagree with this proposal. Maps should be selected by random, and that's it. Otherwise some maps will never be played at all. I also really don't think that's the way to shorten the gap between solo and swf survivors.
There are two main ways that I think the solo and swf gap needs to be shortened in. Most importantly. there's matchmaking, which needs to be heavily improved, as solo survivors suffer from bad matchmaking so much more than swf survivors.
And then secondly, there's the balance gap. Now I personally don't think the gap is as big as others say it is, but I definitely think it needs to be shortened as much as possible. Small changes like having an hud indicator of who is getting chased or having a totem counter as well as bigger changes like adding kindred into the survivors base kit would improve the game's balance a lot.
I think once the devs implemenet the future new early game phase that will prolong matches, buffs to solo survivors will be a necessity in the same patch as well.
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I wouldn't really have a problem with NOED if there was a totem counter to help solo survivors to keep track of how many totems are left. But for some reason we still don't have that.
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@slunder said:
@hahahillbillygobroom well, its true that a lot of billy add ons are broken, but here they nerfed his base kit, which is skilled based, and the amount of crutch add ons players vs the amount of fair Billy users is very different. most of the time, Billy players will not use a broken add on combo. This does come from someone who does not use perks and add ons, so maybe I am wrong.
@ad19970 true, but he requires skill, which makes it ifne and deserved. Also, go watch Ussylis play against him to understand the counter-play. Also, they are a lot of worst things like camping that the devs should focus on instead of nerfing a killer that is based on skill.
@NursesBootie well, basing an opinion for a killer on the best build is not fair: the strongest build for Billy is very rarely used compared to a normal Billy build.
I certainly agree that they should start and try address the problems with camping. But still many people have had a problem with Billy, and just giving him a bit of a limit on how much he can use his chainsaw seems fair to me. It won't change much as long as the chainsaw doesn't overheat too fast.
I do know how to counterplay Hillbilly, definitely. He certainly has fair counterplay, but that doesn't change the fact that he is insanely powerful.
I believe all the top tier killers will need some small nerfs anyways once the new early game phase will be added to the game. Either that or solo survivors will need some serious buffs alongside a nerf to camping.
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@NursesBootie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1417429#Comment_1417429
How strong will his best build, flick billy, be after the nerf in your opinion?
I don't know, but I don't think it will be weakened in any significant way. I guess it depends a lot on how fast his chainsaw overheats, but if it does go too fast, the devs will probably make changes to how fast his chainsaw overheats.
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Hillbilly is insanely strong, and he honestly still will be after this nerf.
There certainly have been people complaining about him just having a tad too much going for him. A very small nerf like this won't hurt him though.
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I always feel like those maps are some of the most balanced in the game. Most pallet loops are mindgameable, and the maps don't seem that big to me. Sure it has a fair amount of safe pallets and good windows, but nothing too crazy. At least with viable killers the Badham maps are some of the most balanced maps in my opinion.
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Nerf looks good honestly. Billy is such a strong killer, nerfing him just slightly won't do any harm, especially after the map reworks. If we do actually get that new early game phase in a future patch, top tier killers will need some small nerfs anyways, in addition to a nerf to camping and buffs to solo survivors.
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@Cheers said:
Well, due to them not having a huge team like other companies, and the situations are endless if it causes or not, but it doesn't happen all the time, then it's going to take a while to discover what is the first step to activate the bug as if you were trying to abuse it. And then they have to look for a second step, and third, and so on up until they replicate it.
If you do leave, goodluck in whatever you go onto next. Hope to see you back soon.
Well I'm certaionly not leaving, I'm just not playing this game a lot anymore. I do get that it is a complicated problem, but one that is existent for 6 months now, and it's just so frusttrating to deal with.
I really just wish the devs would skip one chapter and focus on bug fixes and the health of the game.
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Really not a good thing since it's just a free game for any tunneling killer.
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Isn't Ash the only survivor who speaks in the game? Haven't heard Bill ever actually speak. Oh dear I might be talking to a crazy person.
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I personally think Leatherface is quite weak, but he is king at camping. Just awful design in general, though I can't really blame the devs for desinging him like that.
Hillbilly is so, so much stronger though.
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Sad nerds that probably have no life, and sadly it's possible that it's not even their own fault.
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@NightWolfsFury said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1183785#Comment_1183785
Whenever I hear a doctor charging and I know I'll be hit if I don't get that action, I will quite literally mash my space bar and it typically works in time. LOL
That's probably his best counterplay. Dropping a pallet or vaulting before he shocks you. I would definitely like to see the devs to make an attempt of making his main counterplay avoiding his shock, but not sure how it would work without hurting him too much.
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Feel sorry for them. They are the pathetic nerds that most likely have no life. Just realise they might not even be to blame for their ridiculous life. It's sad when you start thinking about it more in depth.