Zarathos
Zarathos
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@Red_Beard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051594#Comment_2051594
So fairly new to killer. If you don’t mind sharing, what are you most afraid will happen when you play killer? Or to phrase differently, is there something you don’t want to happen when you play killer more than everything else?
Getting haddonfield or some map that horribly limits my killer like laboratory with huntress or blight on lerys. If this happens twice in a row I just want to dc and drop the game entirely. Poor luck or mot its really awful to play and creates these misrable non-games where even if i win im not having fun im nto exploring power possibilities im just playing a base or hampered killer.
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@Dragonshensi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051272#Comment_2051272
That’s difficult cause how far he leaps away if he misses. If he’s not right next to me then he recovers before I can get to him.
Kicking the gremlin is a big element as to why he's so frustrating to play. Ya if he misses I'd be more accepting that you get punished but the fact that you can get kicked post an accurate hit is really frustrating. Then you have to drag Charlotte slow ass over to the downed survivor so now your wasting more time.
No making viktor easier to kick isn't going to help the killer play in a less scummy way. You need to remove victors detection and give charlotte more map traversal capabilites so shes isnt dragging her slow ass across the map. Map traversal wise you could give Charlotte a boost of speed to help her catch up or potentially weaponise it to get easier chases post downing a survivor.
This gives Charlotte a purpose beyond releasing the gremlin. I dont think making charlotte a base killer with no appeal chase wise was smart there was so much more that could have been done.
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This is an ongoing issues with a lot of killers with power's. So many killer builds and killer bloodweb's are gunked up with useless perks that simply do not play well with a large majority of killers. Maybe the reason perks like ruin see so much play is down to the perk functioning in a core position that other killers desperately need's filling. I remember playing huntress and getting crap for running ruin and my immediate reaction was what would you suggest I run instead. To which they named surge, pop, thanatophobia even tho most of these don't work because
a. Pop is adding to your downtime of on top of reloading also taking up time.
b. Surge doesn't work because of the m1 condition being hard to achieve as a 110 ms killer.
c. Thanatophobia doesn't return any results unless you have the mangled hatchets to help (used to with old sloppy).
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Throw out self care adopt iron will. You wont believe how often that perk will save you from being spotted or allow you to straight leave a loop while a killer is mindgaming themselves. I reckon a majority of the games i have lost has been to the self carer who let others hit 2nd stage instead of just making the rescue whilst injured.
Ds has wronged me too often to ever feel good about using it from my kiler experiance. Thinking because it has less abuses its suddenly bad is opening your team to some awful tunneling. Trust me packing ds is sensible.
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@GamerGirlFeng said:
It's interesting how when a post like this is made about a survivor's scummy plays and toxicity during end game chat this community is on board with the poster and ranting about how horrible survivor's are. The reality is killers are just as bad but for some reason this community ignores it and gives them a free pass because they don't play enough survivor to know any better.
Bravo.
Probably because post game its usually boils down to 4 people harassing the one person. Yes thick skin yes killers players can say some slimey awful ######### but that dynamic of 4 people harassing one person with the default not being to mute post game is frankly stupid.
Let me make this clear a killer camping or tunneling isn't toxic. Just as using a flashlight of t bagging isn't toxic. Posting vile crap on someones profile or dropping racial slurs and mocking others is. No killers wont get a free pas but if you think a killer tunneling or camping is out of malicious intent then your no different then the frankly foolish killers who believe t bagging and flashlights are toxic.
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Just had a game where one player post unhook ran straight to my totem twice in a row post unhook. Whilst the unhooker ran the oppositie direction. Now im sure the op would say i should give up the totem and not tunnel but im not giving the free totem cleanse no if your injured or unhooked move away from the danger zones. You dont get immunity and cleanse my totem that is greedy and you know it.
From the other survivors perspective it seems like obvious tunneling but of course since your a rando survivor how would you know the reasoning when you just keep assuming every killer is some snidely whiplash villain out to ruin your fun and make you misrable. (yes were playing the killer role no the irony is not lost on me).
When i was playing survivor other red rank survivors the people who by now should know how hard dbd is for new players was harassing a rank 13 for camping. Calling him a nasty crap. Instead of offering advice or maybe just accepting that the newer player is still learning. Spme of them even said its not an excuse. But apparently going out of your way to demean someone is.
No a camping tunneling killer or t bagging survivors isn't ruining dbd its frankly disgusting post game chat filled with derogatory racist crap that really hurts people's ability to play/recommend dbd.
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Flip flop, power struggle is low key pretty nuts and if your desire to buy a survivor for there perks is heavily based on how meta they will be its kind of an uphill struggle. How are you gonna beat the meta survivor perks without breaking the game. Do you want some bt 2.0 where you both get protection from being downed post unhooking a survivor? Maybe you would like adrenaline 2.0 where every gens you pop restores a health state. See what I mean if these perks saw the light of day the game would be horrendously broken. Perks like flip flop are fantastic and current MoM is the kind of fun perk that actually create some great moment without horribly breaking the game.
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@boostedsurvivormain said:
Nurse has the lowest kill rate. Is she weak now?
Exactly either use data and acknowledge that nurse is weak or throw it away. Simply saying this data is only legitimate for easy to learn killers makes no sense. Especially when this matchmaking is before we have competent matchmaking. I'm sorry your data is worthless when I'm still getting rank 12s in my red rank games. Anyone who says that a rank 12 is gonna be just as good as a red rank survivor is delusional. Even in red ranks experienced players struggle with nurse you know people who have a higher playtime and is more likely to do well. Mmr matchmaking is being experimented with and once they crack how to properly implement it we can start taking some of these stats seriously. I legitimately avoid killers who struggle at jungle gyms because of how competitive games can get. Deathslinger, spirit, huntress are the kind of killers I stick too largely. Bubba for me is if I got dailies and I can tell you he might be better then a lot of b tier killers but he still only is a b tier killer. Once you get the survivors who can consistently hit the pallet stun during his chainsaw sprint then you will see how pathetic your bubba actually is (note enduring, spirit fury will require that you wither track bubbas use of it or play safe on pallets in locations with no vault locations closely located, this build is more prone to gen loss since your delay on gens will be much more limited) . A lot of survivor like killer are just painfully average at this game and killers like bubba really prey on these kind of players. Chainsaw killers in general rely heavily on serious positioning mistakes bar old crack billy entity rest his soul.
@Melty said:
Fellas, are you ready for an unpopular opinion?
Bubba is one of the strongest killers in the game.
He's not on the same level as Spirit, but he's damn close.
I know, right? I must just be a salty Survivor main, one that sucks and doesn't know how to not get caught out in the middle of nowhere — wrong. I'm a Killer and Leatherface main, and I've gone against him on occasion as a Survivor, too.
Oh, well, dang. Then I must be pretty new to the game and/or still in green ranks, at best — wrong again. I'm consistently Rank 2 as Killer, not that it really matters since playtime correlates way better with skill than rank ever did, of which I have nearly ~3k hours to speak of (over half of it dedicated to Bubba alone).
I must just be an idiot, then, or have never run into teams that know how to properly use and chain windows together. I mean, after all, windows are his biggest weakness.
Yeah — no.
Sure, windows work. They do against any Killer that doesn't have an attack or ability which can extend past the wall the window is on, I.E; Huntress, Gunslinger, Pyramid Head, etc. You're going to suffer from a strong jungle gym no matter who you play, especially against good Survivors. That doesn't make it a unique or even all that effective counter to Leatherface.
Neither do pallets, by the way. Unless you're really lucky or unless I play sloppily, single pallet loops are going to get you killed, and most Survivors realize that — the smart ones do, anyway. The best thing to do is drop it early and run to the next nearest loop. Fortunately, I can just eat through those and regain my charges by the time I catch up.
Consistently, my biggest counter has been map-based and has relied on Survivors having comms. If I get a map saturated in pallets and jungle gyms, and the Survivors know to split and do gens? I'm #########. Any Killer would be, aside maybe from Spirit or maaayybe a really good Nurse. Any other map, though — especially ones with low pallet counts or lots of space? Nah, son. Doesn't matter what you do, Bubba's kit just makes him a monster at running people down and punishing saves, especially considering he's faster than a spring bursting Meg during an extended charge.
The only reason he might not dominate is if the person playing him relies too heavily on his chainsaw and forgets that basic attacks are still a thing, or if they don't fake their charge for mindgames nor go for cheeky window swings when Survivors get too cozy on a particular gym.
The best map pressure and game delay you have, as a Bubba, are hooks. People are going to come, and you can punish them incredibly easily if you hook someone out in the open. If they don't? Free kill, and you can just passively threaten all the nearest gens. They come to you.
Don't believe me?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WLMT0T65L2AA/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GCKL7IJYHX9O/image.png
Here are the statistics from 2020.
Just keep an eye on where Leatherface is, consistently. Even newer Killers can just pick him up and immediately boost themselves because of how easily he sweeps the low to mid ranks. Your only real weakness is sweaty SWFs and comp teams, which — again, any Killer would struggle against, not just him. The only real counter I can admit to having is Survivors bringing keys, and that's an entirely different rant all on its own.
These posts remind me of the old Billy complaints there so dismissive of counterplay that seriously mess with these kind of killers. If you early drop pallets vs bubba in every loop no wonder you see him as a threat. Pathing in dbd is hugely important if you mess it up bubba seriously punishes it but you need to seriously mess up to let that happen. Bubba has become one of my favorite killers to play against when I'm warming up. He teaches the fundamentals and some advanced looping elements. Not that I would say the survivor role is that complex I'd argue it needs more mechanics and tools but that's for another discussion.
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On the same boat with a lot of people that we need weekly perk changes. Not permenent some can be temporary experiments. They domt have to be cpmplex simple number changes to promote expermenting with new perks.
For example surges cd is 50% lower or autodidact generates two stacks instead of one per skill check.
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Plans for next chapter goes blight, wraith then huntress. I can't think of a single reason to play trickster over huntress besides maybe meme's. Thats just not a good selling point for me. I can't express skill with him in any unique ways so whats the point in playing him.
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Twins because there gameplay is misrable and boring.
Hag (daily shows up il play a round) otherwise she dosent appeal to me. Gameplay wise i lile her design but it just dosent suit my preferences.
Crapper for a time I enjoyed crapper but as time has gone on he just gets worse and worse. He has so many weaknesses spends way too much time doing nothing and has no tricks beyond his bear traps making his loop play just awful.
Trickster will likely join the category of not playing mostly because if I ever want to play a ranged killer I'll play slinger or huntress. There way more intimating and dont spend so much time trying to get a down because you need what eight or 6 blades to down. Nothing nunced about his throws either so ya pretty boy is looking real underwhelming.
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You need high tier killers for high tier survivor play. Dowsey video really puts into perspective hhow unpleasant dbd is when you bump into these squads. Behavior threatening mmr means now more then ever we need nurse and spirit.
This won't be a problem for you if you don't perform to a high standard. If your at a high standard push buffs for weaker killers or direct sensible survivor nerfs that hurt the best players but have a limited impact on low rank players. You can't sit there and complain killers you play against are awful and also name killers as examples of balance who do not adaquately perform at the highest level.
I try to play variety but everytime i see competitve survivors that are doign the same tactics of split up push gens on each corner and run optimum builds I'm gonna bring the best killers i can. Your "balanced trash tier" billy isn't going to cut it.
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@grayon444 said:
Even if we got the best chapter in DBD the community will still complain.
Because after all this IS the DBD community.
I don't remember hearing any complaints about oni or reworked freddy on release. Hell a lot of the changes behavior made and chapters thats worked were love and liked. Its just the fact that looking back on the last few chapters its hard not to be miffed. I mean come on the twins, trickster upcoming release, breakable walls reworked maps, holy hell midwich was and still is a disaster map. As the old saying goes where there is smoke there is fire.
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We need more s tier killers because even high ranks don't want the same crap all the time. Were due an s rank killer so hopefully blight post fov change can do that.
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The issue is killers will drop the survivors to prevent the breakout which is important because losing pressure as killer is a death sentence. Maybe if pressure wasn't so important we could see breakout be stronger but if it actually worked consistently dbd would be a much more frustrating game.
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@Goofenstein said:
very petty over a video game character. ok.
People are miffed were getting another weak killer. Its not that the fact that hte killers weak but the community was continously trying to suggest good changes for the trickster to distinguish and give him his own unique gameplay i.e. ricochet, exploding knives, anything that went beyond fire a projectiles it hits it lacerates. That's the issue This is on the back of the twins failure to make an impact resulting in the killer seeing little play.
For my swf and solo survivor games it meant we got little to no games vs the new killer and naturally we were disappointed. As a killer player it means that I'm still playing the same old killers. I'll admit the blight and wraith changes look promising but all the same its kind of frustrating.
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Encountered about two cheaters. One had the instant heal ability picking herself off the ground immediately after being downed. Then they deliberately started blocking my shots as deathslinger (glad we have counterplay hackers can exploit). Then there was a game I actually recorded and still have. Ticket sent in and game was reported no response so far? There were two hackers who kept dropping from the sky on the groaning storehouse somehow. Monto has encountered it as well. So ya they exist and they have been more prevalent as of recently. I wouldn't mind all of this if I got some feedback that they are doing something about this.
Also dude linked his youtube where he does these hacks in other game not just dbd but I'm not linking them since they don't deserve the views on top of the naming and shaming rules.
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Were just going to casually ignore ohtofu and the billy mains community at large are we? They have said the issue with billy is hes not fun. People can say oh overheat dosent affect billy for players that dont overuse the saw.
You mean his power the reason you play the killer. Did people forget that one of the most exciting and fun things to do as billy was saw across the map for prolong periods of time or are we just gonna pretend that never existed.
It makes no sense if billy was still a fun killer then people would be playing him. Saying there all just bad players is arrogant and really speaks about the kind of egos we got in this community. If you can still have fun with billy thats good for you but the community at large is having an abyssmal time playing him something needs to change.
There were people who swore by old freddy but in the end behavior changed him and now people actually like playing him you can argue hes to strong and yes you'd be right but now freddy actually sees play.
That arguably more important then whether or not you enjoy playing him. Its also nonsensical to have a cooldown meter on a power you want to learn. Stop and focus on this point stop being dismissive and actually explain why does overheat need to exist?
Do you want billy players to learn there powers limitations or just be harassed by the overheat mechanic. Im so sick of the overheat apologists who dont even try to explain why its needs to exist bar to punish payer who are learning the killer. You know the ones who are struggling. Its nonsensical and arrogant.
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I've said this before and I'll say it again MMR is a good idea but killer/survivor rank needs to factor into the mmr matchmaking early on. Eventually you can use 100% mmr ranking only but right now 50% of your mmr score should be based of your pre-existing rank. Rank doesn't matter is not to be taken literally it gives a vague idea of what the players is capable of and should be used as some metric to separate the rank 18 player from the rank 10 players. So far 4 games in and whilst the last one is starting to pair me close to the capable players I'm used to its still feels wrong to have those initial stomps. Rank does matter and its a good indicator for creating some early categorization for some distinction among player skill levels.
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Iri head huntress hatchets and 4 man slugs tend to trigger the most dcs. That's the most consistent I have gotten dcs. Apart from that early downs or not wanting to farm. If there claudette's the chance increases dramatically don't know why tbh?
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@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
The developers have no interest in making any killers strong. There are 4 survivors and one killer per match and it is in BHVR best interest to appease the larger percentage of the player base. Its sad, but true.
Even with that logic I would state it's in behaviors interest to make killers desirable to play. Survivors want variety. The same killers all the time only serves to bore them. I remember hitting up a few games with my swf post twin release and everyone in my group was disappointed when no one was playing the twins. Naturally I explained why the twins aren't being played and hell if I was going to pay money to play a killer that would be awful to play. Making strong killers is more desirable then making weak killer because initial impressions matter. For all the Style and flash there bragging the trickster shaping up to arrive to little fanfare.
As a killers player what I want is a powerful killer that has mechanical depth. If the killer does not perform to a high standard I'm going to ignore him and focus on playing more powerful killers. If there is mechanical depth that allows me to achieve these level's of power I'll more then happily subject myself to the learning process.
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So picture this you have 45 iri heads and 47 hunting belts? You telling me that allure of power isn't gonna draw you to it. Also its a fast way to push the skilled huntress achievement which is kind of ironic when you stop and think about it. Besides iri head is terrible with weak huntress players if you can't hit your shots having a smaller capacity is terrible. You can lie to yourself and say oh huntress is a crap player they need the add on to win but we all know its just the add on being busted as fk. The huntress has to be at least decent to actually do well with the add on. But there I go again using a metric besides good or bad to define the skill level of a player what a strange concept.
@Sandt21 said:
My idea for a Iri Head nerf was always remove the Insta-down, make it so you can only carry one hatchet, that number can not be increased by any means, and instead have it give every singe negetive status effect survivors can get. Mangled, hemorrhage, blindness, oblivious, exaustion, hindered, broken, and deep wound.
This is terrible why would you want to stop throwing hatchets after you get a hit. You need to score a down fast and a slow ass huntress whos reloading all the time is never gonna be played because your wasting to much time. The easier solution would be to make the first hatchet instadown and subsequent hatchets work as normal. I get it its a funny idea but its terrible in a game like dbd where the clock is against you and snowballing is important. In dbd meme add ons need some competitive merit or people will just ignore them and only be used by players who are only out to make content.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025343#Comment_2025343
One of the things that are frustrating as survivor on Midwich and Gideon, Is when someone is hooked on the second floor and you just can’t even find the stairs. Same when the exit gates are opened.
You know what's really messed up about the lack of options going upstairs is that as killer its more worthwhile to not open the way upstairs because in a lot of circumstances you can get a free health state taken away since survivors struggle to reach the survivor in a timely fashion midwich is so messed up.
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Haddonfield, Haddonfield and did I mention Haddonfield. Legit tho this map should be disabled its such a garbage piece of crap. One of the only maps where I can generate bloodlust at an accelerated rate both in and out of the game. Midwich sucks as well but at least both the killer and survivor is suffering in haddonfield its just fences and mindlessly looping buildings because there is no threat of being caught unless you royally botch it.
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Large maps in general just suck. Why would anyone deliberatly play a game where the interaction with there opponent is non existent because there spending most of the game traversing the map or camping.
I don't care how pretty your map is or how much easter eggs you have keep the size of your maps down not every killer has good map traversal.
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I've encountered speed hack teleportatation hacks and instant health state hacks. I managed to record it and I sent off a ticket but never got a response. The speed hack I was skeptical of until i saw the survivors radomly drop down from the sky on ironworks. At one stage they dksappeared and immediatly healed from being down to injure to healthy in 6 seconds.
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Friend's have recently been turned off dbd because in there view there getting sick of playing against the same killers as survivor. Hopefully the blight and wraith changes add some spice but if this is the second killer in a row that get underplayed its not gonna be very interesting. If you have to push the killers power level to make him semi competitive early on that would be way better then releasing a weak killer no ones going to play. You can dial back the power of a killer as players get more experienced but the initial impression's of new killer released and virtually no ones playing them on the third or fourth day will be a stink that sticks with the killer and it will be very hard to get people to come back and play the killer. Like with the twin's I'm gonna hold on buying the next dlc and see if they fix this killer. Looking at the twins I have little to no hope this will be addressed as even now the twins are abysmal to play. I'm not upset just disappointed this is shaping up to be another crap release. Dbd needs fresh exciting content if the new killers aren't doing this then what's even the point
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Hellraiser would be amazing of all the licences he fits well with dbd but if it was fnaf or resi its always gonna be resi. Nemsis and mister x just leaves way more of an impact for me.
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@Mat_Sella said:
this map is amazing for him, what? all the corridors are free hits and if they go through a window thats a free hit as well...wait thats like 80% of the map.
On top of this, he has a low terror radius so not only will survivors not see you coming, by the time they hear you, they wont have enough time to prepare for an escape.
In theory this sounds great until you realize all a survivor has to do is break los and your kinda screwed. The low tr is undoubtedly helpful but its not gonna be enough when your power is gimped so heavily by consistent los breakers. I highly recommend trying it because its probably filled me with more rage then any other killer games I have had. Indoor maps bar the game(its open enough) should not show up for huntress or deathslinger those killers should at the very least have a different movement speed to compensate for there heavily restricted power.
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Its odd because despite having these hitboxes huntress still has one of the lower kill rates. At this stage her wind ups and hatchet velocity speeds are dependent on the width and ridiculous aoe. What scares me is the thought that they get the hatchets right and not bother messing with her hatchets wind up or hatchet velocity speed and were down another killer. Last I checked the billy changes and nurse changes destroy the playrate they once had and has cast them pretty far into much lower play rates. Which is a shame because nearly all the killer above are way more fun then playing against a freddy, clown,hag or spirit.
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@Trashmaster said:
The removal of directional lullaby was absolutely idiotic, that is for sure. The whole point of it was not to be a direct upgrade to terror radius but now it is just that
Ah have you ever abused old lullaby funniest ######### ive ever seen. I was on gas heaven and the dude was a twitch streamer who was chasing me around the fuel station. I was circling the building and cars and planting myself in a position that was always the max distance the huntress was approaching from. Anytime she tried to cut me off an go back the way she came I just went the other way the place was a near infinite. We won that 3 v 1 and holy hell was the dude frustrated. Ya no lullaby being directional was super problematic when fully abused but again good hearing was the key which isn't really a skill survivors train
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@Alphasoul05 said:
Maybe not allowing a trap near x radius of the hook, but other than that you can't nerf her much. She had a buff to the range of her traps long ago because she was basically never played whatsoever and the only way people would play her is by straight up camping, as opposed to actually bothering to push out onto the map like now.
That could easily break hag. The amount of bugs we saw with the restriction cant trap x within x meters massively messed up trapper on the twins release. Even tho that wasnt inteneded. I think hag would need a meaningful buff if your gonna nerf her ie making her move at increased speed post teleportation would massively help her out and make her way more approachable.
In exchange simply disarming traps would be the most reasonable change i would introduce but again if you want to disarm traps there needs to be some kind of buff to compensate and it needs to be big. Hag is often overstated in power imo.
Any hag whos has felt the sting of survivors consistently smashing her web triggering it whilst shes picking up or just deliberatly triggering traps at a semi safe distance will tell you how detremental that is. The core issue i have with hag is something i have with the basement in general.
But tackling the basement issue right now is a whole other issue. Hag right now with one change can easily slide into non-existent popularity and become a straight up terrible killer. Remeber the hag went from unviable to viable with a mere trap setting timer change.
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Killer role I will always play competitively until i lnow my opponents are in a weak position in which case I will give them room to breathe and play for points. Survivor I tend to only ease off again when the game is swinnging my way. Might search a few chests or work towards challenges. Deliberatly 99% gens and do another for points etc.
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I'd hightly recomend oni instead. Billy is a mere shadow of himself but if you insist on learning him you need to try and get better at the curves on his saw. Using the saw actively to limit test how far you can turn the saw and what loops it works on is the ultimate test of how good a billy player you can be.
Build wise whilst learning him make sure to use heat add ons so you r not gimped by the overheat mechanic continously limiting your power and make sure to pack some turning add ons to allow for better mannovouring.
Im not sure if there any modern billy guides post changes and I doubht the older guides are in line with his current limitations so you might have to do a lot of testing/overheating to figure out where you can and can't use your saw. Of curse you want to m1 in a certain areas but if you want to get really good. Play around with the saw on a lot of loops to limit test his power.
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@Sluzzy said:
Survivors nerfed tremendously and Huntress has never been touched. Billy was only broken because of a very problematic perk, BBQ. He can spam the saw and chase the auras. Huntress is overpowered now, no counterplay on many maps and her hitboxes are broken. She definitely needs more cooldowns and add-ons all nerfed.
This is straight up lies. How long have you been playing? Huntress had her wind up hatchets change maps have way more added debris that makes the huntress power way weaker. You used to be able to turn jungle gyms and get a hit but the addition of little stick barricades in maps lioe crotus prenn prevents this.
If you still doubht look at old renditions of badham vs new badham that map is way worse for huntress and that without getting to maps like the lab where huntress power is significantly weaker. Survivors got nerfed ah yes new game map was such an incredible nerf right? 60 safe pallets really? Nevermind changes to undying (needed but were doen badly) and pop, thanatophobia (completely uneeded).
On the topic of bbq no survivor worth there salt complains about this perks it is a perk that pubstomps weak survivors who are incapable of looping or evading a long distance aura reading perk. I would welcome bbq effect of double bp being moved to another way better killer tracking perk discordance, tinkerer, thrilling tremors. All would be way better then bbq which is a garbage perk that is only used for its double bp.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
So far it is only known that Huntress will get an Add On-Pass. This will 100% include that Iri Heads will be nerfed (finally), those outdated Exhaustion Add Ons will most likely go as well (finally). Other than that, everything is open. The only thing that she might get nerfed are her Wind-Up Add Ons, but I would not consider them problematic personally.
IMO the Billy-Nerf was justified, he is still good. You have to think about the fact that Billy got called "the most balanced Killer" for years, but the game got easier and easier for Killer. Something that is considered "the most balanced Killer" will not be balanced anymore.
However, I have to agree, if they are nerfing Billy, they will go for Spirit at some point again. The Nerf she got was almost nothing, even when removing her most broken Stuff, she is still very strong with a somewhat low skillcap.
In an ideal world, Nurse will get a full rework, but this will not happen.
Killer got easier? Wait what? Have you seen the added debris in reworked maps. What about all the maps added that massively restricts his power.
For example compare og badham to new badham. The new map has way more debris significantly and is significantly less open. Billy was nerfed simply so the question of why play blight when you can play billy would be answered with because billy is awful to play now.
If theres any doubht look at how close they both recieved there changes now huntress is getting changes (ya sure im gonna buy that its only add on changes sarcasm). Which will probably follow shortly after the trickster release who also suffers from the why play him when you can play huntress. Remeber billy changes were expected to be small instead the majority of billy players were devastated to see his curving and cd massively limit him.
Billy was a balanced kiler now his turning his add on options feel so awful and lacking in actual competitive options and the cd on his saw take a lot of the fun out of the killer. There no end to the clips of people just curving around maps with billy but nah lets strap an overheat mechanic on that sometimes get bugged and doesn't decrease.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006384#Comment_2006384
You have some severe mistakes there bud.
"Also no you cant protect your totem that is a foolish thought to even think about."
What? I thought that the killer's job was to multitask, as a hybrid player I have protected my totems in my games, even if they know where they are. A killer's job is to also keep an eye out for their totems. A perk shouldn't just magically protect your totems. You should earn it.
" lets be real here the majority of players are at least grouped with one other player on comms and most player will direct other members of its location with general pointing. "
I dunno chief, the last time the devs released information proves the exact opposite. If you want to I can search the exact photo they released.
"All of what you fear exisits already. It called corrupt intervention no you dont have to cleanse it but for all its threatening potential it hasn't broken the game. "
This isn't a fear, is a necessity. Corrupt is arguably the strongest killer perk for 2 reasons, it forces early killer-survivor interaction at mid to high ranks and gives the killer a bit of time on the early game. This lasts for 180 seconds and then doesn't reactivate ever. So, here's what the high level survivors do in tournaments, mind-blowing I know.
They just don't reveal themselves and wait for corrupt to pass. Because they know that if they waste all 3 minutes, the killer has 3 perks left.
Does it work with the old undying/ruin? No, otz actually explained why. With undying/ruin being released the killers is tournaments started to smash the competition easily, why? Because even if the survivors hide with corrupt, you have to deal with the combo, but you can't stay simply hidden can you? Since the killer will patrol. So what they do is not going for totems, because if they're unlucky they wasted precious gen time. So they tried to power through and it resulted in most loses. And the killer doesn't even have to do anything to gain that pressure, the mere existence of the combo demolished high level of play.
".If you don't get something early pn you be put so far behind its nearly impossible to claw your way back."
Again you're wrong, because all gens are done doesn't mean the game is over, comebacks exist. Hag is the best killer example I can give, with hag you make a web and the survivors are forced to interact with it. If they decide to genrush and not harsh the hag, they are in deep trouble because every chase will end in an instant. Endgame builds and perks also exist. And killer powers interacting with endgame like pigs. So, again, you're simply wrong. Not a single high rank survivor will say that the game is over once the survivors have one or two gens left.
"There is no end to the number of survivor perks that can mitigate and halt a killers snowball. Ds, unbreakable, adrenaline, even exhaustion perks mitigates and hinder pressure at pivotal moments"
You kinda instinctively result in whataboutism but let me focus on that one as well. Ds gets nerfed so I won't mention it, adrenaline needs to activate in endgame and it is still counterable, exhaustion perks are always expected in high level of play and they get countered if you know what to do when you know they have a certain exhaustion perk (example: dead hard, you bait deadhard early and they have no exhaustion perk, or equip addons such as the toxic on huntress).
"Yet a killer forcing totem interaction early on is considered broken. "
I never said that an early totem interaction is the problem, it's that it last the whole game in worst case scenario. Also, undying did many things at once, such as the aura reveal, which forced survivors to lose-lose situations.
"This makes no sense. When you as a team can spawn next to gens on large maps rng that is not a small percentage then you cant honestly tell me survivors shouldnt be pressured early on to remove a ruin twice?"
Removing a ruin twice in the best, and honestly the only scenario after the patch. Large maps need to be fixed, and they will according to the devs. They have made large map adjustments after all in previous patches. And I also think that spawning close to gens is kinda stupid, I think survivors should either spawn separately on the same side of the map or, preferably, together on the edge of the map or deadzone. The survivors should be forced to interact with the killer, not the totems, the secondary objective.
"If a killer snowballs that on the survivors for making those mistakes. A killer success is ultimately dependant on how many mistakes a survivor makes and how competent the killer can exploit this. The early game for killers need to be revised and since the devs refuse to bake this into the core gameplay we should at least get perks to fix this. Undying was meant to do this but its ease of destruction renders that mute as well."
Common mistake I see a lot in the community and Scott actually debunked this. By saying the killer is simply looking for the survivors to make a small mistake, and that's how they win the game is really untrue. Then youtubers and streamers like otz are good players, because they capitalize on survivor mistakes more often? No, they outplay them. By saying that the killer just outplays because he saw a mistake in the survivor side, completely negates the chance of the killer actually knowing what they're doing.
Defense of totems is one of the first mistakes you can make as a killer. If you focus to much on defending your totem you will lose the game and any survivor will know that simply ignoring the totem and pushing distant gens will often crush killers who focus to much on protecting there totems. Multi tasking is easy to say when you have high mobility killers but what of the low mobility killers. I'll get on to large maps later because woo wee is that a major issue. If your totems is found you can try and use it to get some pressure spreading damage out but again you will lose the totem. Plenty of players know this that's why many experience players acknowledge its inevitable it's gonna be taken down.
On the subject of comm's and swf where is this data. The inability to access this data is rather infuriating. How is its parsed do we account for difference in ranks (incoming rank doesn't matter even though that yellow ranked meg is self caring in a corner). If I want to check the data on how a champion is performing in lol or dota I can easily bring up sites and get the information there yet dbd tends to restrict that information. I don't care how the greens and yellows are doing I'm interested in what red ranks and how players with higher win rates are doing with x perks and x add-ons.
You used the hag as an example but her counterplay admittedly much more tricky has some glaring holes. If every player keeps deliberately messing with her web she falls apart as a killer. It not easy but that again is why she's one of the better killers I acknowledge this. Flashlight will horribly mess her up but that's just a given. A lot of killers who are less trap based and lack that snowball potential think wraith, pig, bubba, ph etc do will struggle to claw back games. Killers bouncing back from a poor start is not the norm and the point I'm making is that the odds are stacked against you when going up against competent players. Max no of pallets in play, breakable walls are in effect creating infinites structures like shack are available and are at max power.
Now I agree undying needed a nerf but your opening sentence implied you were happy with it as is. Even though it is not fit for its purpose. There were two ways to go with making undying effective.
A. Its loses its aura reading entirely and now instead of two totems being in play there is the one totem you have active. Upon destruction another dull totem lights up so your chance of a hex totem being broken is reduced thus prolonging the ruin or hex perk effect.
B. Hex undying triggers a maximum of two times no more so instead of breaking 4 or 5 ruins you would have to deal with 3 totems a much fairer and reasonable number.
Finally whataboutism is dressing denial of an issue as a positive. No these all exist in the same ecosystem of play this all matters. Scott even engaged in the concept he talked about when pop got nerfed and question why is ds remaining as is. There are two sides to dbd if you reduce the power of one side you need to consider the other so the scales of imbalance don't get horribly mangled. If the dev's have a change that's gonna hurt one side at the very least withhold it until both sides receive a prepared nerf or changes that should keep the balance of power in check.
Map adjustments? Are we not paying heed to the fact that nearly every map from legion onwards (bar reworked maps) has been a large map. You can adjust maps all you like but when they keep making massive complexes I really have to question if they are being genuine or just lying to our face. I present all of these issues and the answer is its being addressed be patient meanwhile haddonfield is still the most disgusting piece of trash to grace dbd despite not receiving the necessary fix with years of time to improve it. The claim of we addressed the large fences long ago was a blatant lie. Since then no changes.
Finally as survivor to get a comparison across you are a control player your goal is to outlast the killer which is the aggro role. The survivor has a map with a wide access of control tools(structures). The aggro killer player has to navigate the control tool's used by the survivor to get the hook. Killer skill expression is down to the survivor making a misplay, either mispositioning or choosing to use a tile that is unfavorable or is lacking the necessary defenses. The killer chases the survivor this is the nature of the role the killer can herd or manipulate certain misplays but its up to the survivor to make those decision's. Your last sentence makes no sense. How can I not know what I'm doing if I'm deliberately trying to manipulate the survivor into taking an action I know will be unfavorable. Yes you have agency as a killer player but the agency is very limited by a lack of good stall tools(that are being continuously nerfed e.g thantophobia, pop and undying.
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Gonna say this till the cows come home but NERF SWF specifically it dosent have to be huge a minor action speed decrease that decreases further with each subsequent memeber joined to that group. If solo sucks stop balancing aroind swf and start separating the solo play from swf play.
Yes solo sucks but even bar the game balance argument why is it rainbow rank matchmaking. Sure you can argue rank dosent matter but back when my games as survivor had almost gurranteed purples and reds my success was much higher. Now I get greens and frigging yellows in my game. Who can single handedly get the entire team killed by wasting pallets or pulling the team to a bad spot at the start of the game.
Solo sucks because of the following resons.
A. Poor matchmaking if i see one more yellow rank survivor self caring im gonna lose it.
B. Has to be balanced in the same ecosystem as swf? Thsi is unfeasibly dumb. Swf hurts solo play it needs some weaknesses.
C. A lack of communication options current year argument why do we not have pings. Why cant i as a survivor mark a hex totem without having some awkward terrible perk that will likley never be used by a majority of the community ir create a marker that awares other players of an oncoming killer. If the argument is its too strong why the helll does swf exist?
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004925#Comment_2004925
Rng is a major factor that influences the game. From map layouts to bear trap attempts, to 4% and totem spawns. Undying isn't weak at all, and it's role now is simple: if a killer failed to protect his hex, they have a second chance.
Old undying was rng and generally hated. Think about it:
You find a totem, it's either ruin or undying (50/50). You cleanse it (12 seconds I think, without adding thana) and now you either destroyed undying and have to search for ruin or destroyed ruin and you gotta search for a different totem. So minimum you waste 24 seconds + distance traveled to destroy ruin undying, without adding thana or the possibility of a chase. Now, in the other scenario there are 4 totems left, 2 are lit. You find and cleanse one of them and again it's 50/50 if you need to search again for it. So let's do the math here shall we?
Minimum time to destroy the undying+ruin combo was and is: 24 seconds + distance traveled. It doesn't sound like a lot, but if one survivor isn't doing gens, that could cause a snowball on the killer side, because: one survivor is searching totems, one is chased, one is on hook and one is going for the rescue = not a single survivor is doing gens.
Maximum time to destroy the combo is: 60 seconds + distance travel which give the killer free pressure and possibly a snowball effect.
So why shouldn't it be changed? It removed the end factor and kept it to the bare minimum, whilst having the ability to transfer stacks, do you know how powerful that is?
Yes the hex stack retention passive change is so powerful that now hex undying is now run with, nothing except ruin. I tested this change and it didnt matter because undying increases the chance of the perk being spotted and you have to find a hex perk that can net immediate value and make up for the investment of two perk slots. Which there are few to none. Also any survivor worth there salt will never let you get anything out of devour bar maybe one insta down if your lucky.
For everyones talk of lullaby and devour hope it amounted to doing nothing since totems rng and ease of destruction only becomes a problem when undying is hitting 4+ totem resets. Also no you cant protect your totem that is a foolish thought to even think about. If a survivor finds yout totem everyone will from that point on know its location since lets be real here the majority of players are at least grouped with one other player on comms and most player will direct other members of its location with general pointing. Assuming the killer jas some impact on its survival often plays into losing gens at an accelerated rate.
All of what you fear exisits already. It called corrupt intervention no you dont have to cleanse it but for all its threatening potential it hasn't broken the game. A killer getting pressure early is not unhealthy I'd argue the lack of pressure early is a massive cause for dbds imbalances. Killer games can end immediatly with one bad chase at the start of the game. Seriously think about that. If you don't get something early pn you be put so far behind its nearly impossible to claw your way back.
That's it your done. There is no end to the number of survivor perks that can mitigate and halt a killers snowball. Ds, unbreakable, adrenaline, even exhaustion perks mitigates and hinder pressure at pivotal moments. These perks provide absurd ppwer and most improtantly are fit for purpose.
Yet a killer forcing totem interaction early on is considered broken. This makes no sense. When you as a team can spawn next to gens on large maps rng that is not a small percentage then you cant honestly tell me survivors shouldnt be pressured early on to remove a ruin twice?
If a killer snowballs that on the survivors for making those mistakes. A killer success is ultimately dependant on how many mistakes a survivor makes and how competent the killer can exploit this. The early game for killers need to be revised and since the devs refuse to bake this into the core gameplay we should at least get perks to fix this. Undying was meant to do this but its ease of destruction renders that mute as well.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Undying needed a nerf and they nerfed the rng factor, so it's a good nerf for me
So a good nerf results in a weak perk? Undying is supposed to protect your hex perk why is itself active as a hex perk immediatly. Wouldnt it have been smarter to have it only activate post your first hex perks destruction.
This logic of it annoyed me so any result is good regardless of whether or not the perk still fufills its role is very silly. Espicially when you consider gen slowdown perks have been hit continously. Pop got nerfed for some reason, thanatophobia is a nerf to everyone that isn't plague, finally undying is the last perk.
Gen regression perk options are very weak as is. Could have at least improved surge or some other regression perk.
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Undying getting nerfed was acceptable but again were back to the question was it done well? Ah no undying should at the very least not spawn in at the start of the game. When undying is in play it should only appear after its protected your hex perk once. Having two active totems means increasing the chances of the hex being spotted.
Also the tone of stop complaining about ds unbreakable they know. It does nothing kinda assumes
A. Legion didn't happen. A concentrated effort by the community to nerf legion pushed out his nonesense deep wound mechanic and pressured the devs to act fast on patching out his los deep wound nonesense.
B. Keys still are unchanged which is the result of a lack of consistent pressure to focus the teams effort on changing and balancing this above instead of making a few qol improvements to perks that no one is going to use anyways. Or nerfing perks like pop which was never a problem in the first place.
C. Looking at making other perks better fill the spot of undying and opening up killer perk pool options by removing the m1 basic hit condition. Look at huntress and tell me how many perks are dead/bloodweb filler simply because they have zero synergy with hatchet hits. This is a problem for demo pig etc. Surge could have been buffed, sloppy could have been reverted alas instead we just get these changes that nerf only instead of opening options.
Side note funnny how everyone said devour hope and undying was gonna destroy dbd. In conclusion the nerf was handled terribly and if you'll look at the past few patches its be disproportionately killer nerfs bar survivor desync movement which wasnt intended. Finally we'll be seeing ds changes soon so hopefully killer players will catch a break.
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Bit of a mix between slinger and huntress these days. A killer I main is often dependant on the style of games i play that arent dbd. So if i have been playing a lot of shooters like hunt then i favour killers like huntress and slinger.
There was a time I played a lot of og freddy before his rework. But as I got more competitive I droped most m1killers since there counterplay tends to be rudimentary and survivors simply dropping pallets early often lost you a lot of games on a lot of maps.
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Also you ping pong at rapid speeds while lethal rushing. More correction is involved while hag teleportation locks onto the target. Not to speak little of hag every killer has there own challenges the fov for blight seriously messes with your ability to track.
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Until it operates off of power hits it will be trash tier for a majority of killers ruins flexible. That cant be understated. Ya it's nice when surge can work on deathslinger or freddy. Also consider the fact that in the early game the map is incredibly favouring survivor because all of the pallets are up most of the powerful loops are available. Ruin regardless of whether you can score a down or not is slowing the game down. Anyone who thinks ruin is a weak perk has no idea how to play with ruin.
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@REL1_C said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003532#Comment_2003532
It's sort of both. They said huntress and demo are the next killers getting changes. I'm not 100% sure but I think they mentioned add-on reworks, so I assume Iridescent hatchets.
They also said that keys were getting changed about a month ago at least still no word don't take behavior seriously until they say they 100% are making change's at a designated patch.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1991550#Comment_1991550
Yeah, of course matchmaking works good only if there is enough killer and survivor players to choose from. If there is an imbalance in the number of players, then matchmaking can't do good matching, because there is just simply not enough players to choose from.
This is a longstanding issue. It creates a vicious cycle of newer killers dropping the role because of these awful experiances. I can't count the number of times I asked my friends why dont you play more killer? Who usually respond with the statement I don't play killler because I keep getting player who are way more experienced then I am.
This is not some exceptional circumstance the regularity at which this occurs is awful. Why introduce an mmr system when whats needed most right now is a less steeper learning curve or better ways to teach newer killer players important fundamentals?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1989768#Comment_1989768
Nah I read you, I just disagree, and I tried to respond to this in my comment lol. Deathslinger is mostly annoying because he can zone. Trickster can't really zone because he has to repeatedly hit the survivor over time in order to actually do damage. There is no reason for survivors to have a lose/lose choice against Trickster. They need to be careful with him if he gets close because they risk taking damage, but there's no reason to ever dodge and eat an M1 because you were forced into a guess and guessed wrong. You just have a limited time window to break line of sight or you're going to take damage. Dealing with his base attack is therefore a lot more like playing against Plague than Deathslinger; if she charges her ranged attack and she's near you, you need to break direct line of sight soon or you're going to lose a health state and potentially also eat a quick follow up M1. His base attack is weak at long range too, so the comparison sticks; it's just a bit better at range in exchange for laceration gradually cooling down instead of gradually gaining progress like Plague's sickness.
He also does have a chargeable attack with more accuracy, but that reduces his movement speed. That attack is more like Huntress; you're able to gain distance while he charges, but if you can't break line of sight in time you're taking a hit. If this were like Deathslinger he'd be able to use his flurry almost instantly without slowing down and he'd be able to fake it to force survivors to dodge and lose distance.
Again, though, the main point is that neither of his attacks allow him to zone and thereby puts you in a lose/lose situation like Deathslinger. I'm not really worried about this killer, and I say this as someone who absolutely despises Deathsinger. No zoning, no deep wounds, and still being able to rely on pallets and windows to avoid hits give survivors a ton more to work with. I do hope his TR is actually loud at the start, though, unlike everyone's least favorite sarcastic cowboy.
Your saying these things about lose lose situations whilst the killer is in a very weak state. These lose lose situations will come to exist once he recieves buffs. The only difference is that your losing to dagger spam as opposed to a well placed shot. His lacerations currently decay at a fast rate and are likely subject to change.
If the devs choose to leave him as is much like the twins his initial impression will be cool killer gimmick that will ware out its welcome the minute players realise how underwhelming his power is. I keep stating this but a killer can't coast off gimmicks to be popular they have to have some competitive or form of deeper learning curve to get a player base otherwise most players espicially in the high levels will default to the stronger killers.
His power has a rather annoying rng element as correcting his recoil is not something you can adaquetly do considering your success is dependent on a large volume of projectiles connecting. At this stage only time will tell but I doubht dagger spam is gonna find some balanced/competitve play.
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In theroy works but ultimatly dbd is gonna match you with the team that has been stuck in queue for 15 minutes because someone has to play with the group of experianced survivours.
I dont think that element of matchmaking is going to change and unfortunately this is very common judging from all the yellow/green killers I'm hitting with my group and no there often usually incapable of performing well.
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@Sluzzy said:
Why should keys be nerfed when its possible for killer to hold the game hostage with 3 gens?
I have cracked 3 gens and beaten those set ups before doctor with og ruin 3 gen trapper with a fortress setup I cracked that. Survivors have to acknowledge one of them will die and have to take the obscene risk of pushing these gens. If you cower and hug a good loop then your the problem. Step up risk your life to combat the 3 gen. 3 gens only work if you choose to take it slow and play for your own survival. The map where a 3 gen is obscenely unfair is bad map design and unfortunatly moris which also combated bad map design (hi haddonfield, current 60 pallet game map.). They still shouldn't exist.
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What do you want them to do? Down you and drag there slow ass across the map to start the chase again? Because someone decided leaving a killer stationery and be forced to make up distance later was a recipe for a good killer.
Twins imo are awful killer there optimum play is one note lacking in options and when played outside of camp and slug makes them the survivors "kicking" bag due to inefficiencies in there design. Probably the only killer I refuse to play of the entire rooster.
Make no mistake the twins are a mistake and a warning that the devs need to focus on efficient kiler design as opposed to thematic first. The community is to competitive for you to pump out a killer with inefficiencies and expect us to look past the streak of losses coming and say they will find some audience.
What a waste of time and resources!