Z0mbiv0r
Z0mbiv0r
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- Z0mbiv0r
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I agree with this petition and wholeheartedly support it. Given the next entry in the series is coming soon, it would be nice to see them added as legendaries.
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I, too, usually play both roles kind of evenly. It's true I used to play killer more because I somehow found it more interesting than playing survivor, but now I usually play survivor more. And yes, I rage quite a lot, actually. This game gets me most of the times. If it's not because of the players, it's because of the game lagging or making 'mistakes'.
When playing survivor, I hate it and usually rage when I get toxic trolling teammates who try to sandbag me in any way (trying to bodyblock me, bring the killer to me, farm me and then bodyblock me…) though fortunately that isn't so common nowadays - there was a time in which I had plenty of this players, though. I also get annoyed by survivors who refuse to engage in any kind of 'normal' activity from the very first moment (I had a Mikaela yesterday who hid in a locker for the whole match since the beginning).
I also get annoyed by killers who will go full tunneling and camping soon in the match, specially if there's been no progress made by survivors. And let's not forget killers who will work with the teammates and spare them while they farm you and hunt you down.
When playing killer, I just get angry when survivors play way better than me and I can't seem to get nothing done, and then they t-bag or do toxic stuff. Or when they run a full build meant for messing with the killer (several members with head-on and perks focused on stunning / messing with the killer); it's ok finding one, but when you face a coordinated team of people abusing these perks, it's infuriating.
And I algo get angry when the match is lagging and hits that should have hit do not, or when I see people teleporting all around the map.
Also needs to be said, I usually don't get that angry when facing one of these things when spread out. But there are several times when you have to cope with this issues back-to-back. And the last couple days in the event queue has been like that for me. -
I don't see how Dracula being also in a spot where he can pretty much abuse his shapeshifting makes Jason's situation any different. I'm not saying 'Jason is the only killer who must be nerfed or tweak', now am I? It's still diferent since you can see him coming and therefore have a slight chance to prepare. I just don't see how anyone can defend Jason as is now as a perfectly balanced killer.
And to the guy elaborating on what I can or can not do. If this community has shown me anything, is that your saying that does not have any effect whatsoever on my ability to get or not salty. If you want to keep adding insult to the injury, be my guest. Not changing anything, anyway, nor are you silencing me. -
@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089615#Comment_4089615
I don't understand where these people are coming from that are just acting like this is the first killer that can infinitely engage a mode or traversal means for information. Wraith, Xeno and the litany of stealth killers just seem to not exist when these conversations take place.
It's maddening.
Jason is literally at disadvantage for staying in OE longer, so why in the world are survivors barking up this tree about the duration on it? It's to the detriment of the killer to stay in OE.
But since I'm eating downvotes already I may as well commit.It's not 'abuse' to play the killer. The window block and tp both have counter play windows, you regularly 'don't know where the killer is coming from' if literally any killer runs anything with undetectable, it's not all that much easier to tunnel with jason, and his ranged attack isn't that great.
I'm not saying playing the killer is abuse, I'm saying most players are abusing his kit to tunnel early and easy. If any killer runs undetectable they're choosing to use one or more perk slots for that. BHVR is designing killers who are stronger and stronger, then need to be nerfed, while also making other previous killers pale in comparison.
I'm not saying 'destroy Jason', I'm saying he needs to be tweaked. For the entity's sake, some of you guys act like it's your life on the line. -
@TheMruczek said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089611#Comment_4089611
Yeah, unlike Spirit or Dracula he cannot just cancel it and hit you.
Yeah, but Spirit has no ranged weapon or sees you pretty much whatever you do, also, she can be heard approaching. Dracula can be seen easily and doesn't have a clear indicator of where survivors are. Jason sees you whether you move or not.
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So you're fine with him having unlimited map traversal with no way to know where he's coming from?
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You won't hear me complaining about his addition. I don't think he's a good fit, though, or a horror icon. I tried to watch the first movie after watching many people talk about him like he's some kind of avatar of the best horror in the world and all it seemed to me was a pervy, gory porn movie. And a bad one, at that. I think there are plenty other choices better fit for the theme and more interesting to create as a concept. But… People like it, so why not add him? It would be dumb.
But yeah, you're not changing my mind about him being a horror icon. What's next? Pretending reggaeton is music? Please… -
I'm not much of an expert, but wouldn't it be expectable that it still run similarly to how it is now on lowest performance settings?
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Yeah, I am amazed at the amount of people that didn't fully understand Silent Hill F. Hinako is nowhere near 15.
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Yeah, it's kind of hard for me to draw a line without a psychological exploration and constant checks. We also can't underestimate the impact of external influence (not necessarily the household only) and the different experiences one individual may have gone through. It's not the same being corrected in a positive way, debating and exposing misplaced beliefs than being attacked and harassed. We humans are kind of complicated to read and treat.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085252#Comment_4085252
he was written to be very racist which then got changed to have racist implications.
i do think the influence the parents have matters when we are talking about a child. because thats what billy is, he is not an adult he is around sixteen when we see him first in season two and is somewhere between seventeen and eightteen when he dies.
he did not had a chance to unlearn the racist behavior thought by his father. if he where an grown man that had all the chances in the world to see his behavior is wrong and to be better i would agree that the influence of his father would not matter
Out of curiosity and for debate's sake: when do we draw the line of influence having an impact on people's behaviour? A 17 year old has possibly had pretty much the same time as a 20 year old adult. And depending on the case, maybe a 17 year old has had much bigger chances to learn that a 30 year old.
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Thanks a bunch, @Mooks . That was kind of you to go to all the trouble of quoting AMAs to elaborate on the answer. I will eagerly await for more news, then. Maybe on the Anniversary Event they will show something. They went all the way to show a teaser on the SGF so maybe they're waiting to show more news. I can't wait. I've always wanted to get a CV outfit for Claire, and now that they've shown Veronica is coming in 2027, I cannot wait to see what Capcom did and wish there will be some new content coming to DbD too.
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@XenoMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081440#Comment_4081440
This isn´t the problem.. Survivors have oppurtunities to punish these "tactics" there are plenty of perks that can ruin this playstyle and often on high MMR you see these builds. For example I post here the screenshot of my one game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C84CQRZAOXAH/sn-c3-admek-obrazovky-2026-05-17-221005.png
I'd say the same as before. You may say survivors have a ways of 'punishing' (which I'd say is both inaccurate and an exaggeration unless you're in a well coordinated SWF) these tactics, but then you're forcing them to play in a specific way. And, even though I do think survivor entitlement is a thing, that should be out of the equation.
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@harvan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081440#Comment_4081440
I don't want to discuss balancing of this game. There's a lot of players who REFUSE to play this game. I don't care about tactics, about genrushing, camping etc. There are people who are queueing and are RUINING whole game for other 4 people. I am waiting 10 minutes in queue just for someone to refuse to play.
You may not want to (and it's fine, I don't either) but I think it usually goes hand in hand.
Sure, there are also people who just DC's because doesn't want to face an specific killer or whatever, but I'd say most of the times it's because they're sick and tired of being pitted against the same kind of players. Just like you're complaining about this specific kind of players. And it's also worth noting that a player who dc's when things go wrong will do so regardless of which side they're playing. I've face some killers who dc the moment they're not achieving what they wanted.
So… Before punishing one side for quitting, we should check what's making them quit and address that problem. -
I'd agree… But first let's punish killers who camp or tunnel from the very first moment of the game. Then, and only then, we can punish survivors who afk after being hooked.
Not saying you're doing some of those, but from my experience, most killer players are. So maybe that's why so many survivors do that. -
I agree that Parasite Eve, Dino Crisis and Fatal Frame would be cool as chapters. They're all very different and terrifying in their own way, and could provide with different powers and perks for killers and survivors alike.
As for Dead Space, I never finished the first one out of fear, so I guess it could be spot on, I just don't know what kind of options we'd have for killers. And no, thanks, not another failed spaceship map.
As for Siren… I guess you're talking about Forbidden Siren? Played the game and loved the concept, but found it eventually boring and frustrating so I stopped playing. So it's the same with Dead Space with this game for me. Could work, I just don't know what could be used for Killer.
The others I haven't played them, so I cannot say.
And to add some other licenses, I'd add the following list as potential options, let me know what you think.
Eternal Darkness
Obscure
Onimusha (if a little far fetched)
Any Dark Pictures game
Deadly Premonition
There are other more modern horror games that are very good but I find there's little potential for killers, like Chronos The New Dawn, Tormented Souls, Amnesia…
But well, we could always use Metal Gear Solid's Vamp, Psycho Mantis or The Sorrow. -
@BloodDiamond said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070178#Comment_4070178
The cogs in your head sure aren't turning. If biased killer mains got what they wanted, 2/3s of the roster wouldn't be hot garbage, Blight and Nurse wouldn't have been nerfed, these killer "buffs" wouldn't be a joke, and SWF would have gotten nerfed years ago. It's astounding that after 9.2.0 showed BHVR's true intentions with the game that you still SOMEHOW think they care at all about killers, nevermind that you actually think they favor them over survivors. You're either staggeringly oblivious at best, or disgustingly malicious at worst.
I won't dare to say that devs might favour one side over the other, but the fact remains that Blight and Nurse are two potentially extremely lethal killers that needed to be adressed, and doing so was actually healthy for the game. They just need to achieve balance without destroying what the killer was known for, and they're still the same.
Also, don't need to be rude to other people, specially when they're being nice and giving plenty of reason for their opinions. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
Just use perks against it, when you see it that much…
Killer is expected to bring slowdowns perks, but survivors still can't be bothered to use anti-tunneling perks.I personally don't care, if I get tunneled, mainly because it's rare. So I just use Babysitter to help my teammates in most of my builds...
You see slugging often? Use WGLF/Unbreakable
I think using perks against it is not gonna change the outcome. That usually helps if there is not much difference in skill between killer and survivor. I don't usually bother using slowdown perks with killer anyway, I rather use other ones which are more fun to play. I'm not worried about using meta because I don't really feel like I need to win all my matches (even though I'll try to, but I'm quite comfortable having matches in which I lose as long as they're interesting).
I'm not saying I'm tunneled every other game. I've been playing DbD for half a month since I came back to it and my matches were going smooth overall up till yesterday, which was what made me create the topic. Also, I'm not the one being tunneled in all those matches. It was either me or some other teammate. And the first ones I got angry when some of my teammates dc'd or gave up first hook, but after 5-6 matches going through the same I sympathized with them.
And slugging happened only actually in two matches, one against Nurse and the other against Oni. Still, my point remains that those are unhealthy playstyles that should be balanced around, not just patched with some perks. And yes, I include genrush too.@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070076#Comment_4070076
Can't say I've ever had that happen. No one is gonna tell me how to play. I won't even get on comms with anyone until I've felt them out. I'm not hopping on a mic with some random stranger, nor would I expect anyone else to.
If you want things to change, you should want people on your side. These big, broad complaints are daily here and it's pretty tiring. Nuance and understanding will get you further than generalizing. If you say "everyone who tunnels is a bully" ans you have killers here who tunnel, you just called them bullies, and they won't listen to anything you have to say at that point.
Even though I brought it up, if you don't have the stat page, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I didn't think I cared about numbers either and then I did. It's also inaccurate for survivors if you use the abandon option, because all abandons are just removed form the players history and not counted even though they're all deaths. Killer stats are fine, until they finally get this abandon option they keep whining for.
But if we don't strive to do better in every situation, then we will only spiral down.
There are plenty of people already self-policing. Every single day I give people hatch because they got a raw deal. Everyone I bother to speak with has a similar mentality. You can't remove tunneling or bully squads from the game. It would need to be a different game entirely. Deincentivizating should absolutely happen though, but it would come in the form of killers being buffed beyond measure, because these chronic complainers on the other side will settle for nothing less.
I think you are right in many points, I just gave up hope long ago on people, so I guess what I try is for someone up there to realize there are some valid points in my critics and do something about it. But yeah, I guess it's just wishful thinking. Like, through the years most of the comments I've read on these forums are the same: killers not acknowledging when they're not right and survivors behaving the same ways. And most of the time, not offering reasonings and being rude about it too. It seems like not so many people is able or tries to (my money is on they can't be bothered to try) empathize with the other side or even consider their point of view.
I realize the irony since some of you think that's what I'm doing here, but it's not that I feel people would listen any other way. And again I'm generalizing, so that proves your point. Not trying to say I'm a victim, but I do feel like that's the kind of attitudes I find the most by a long margin.
Just a final question - a genuine question. Why do you feel killers would be buffed so hard if they disincentivize this playstyles? People will complain first when you change something, sure. But change after change I think they could find a healthy balance without buffing killers that much. But that should come in hand with this MMR rework we are so desperately in need of. That's what I think anyway. -
@Rick1998 said:
perks like self preservation and fast track harm you if you spread hooks . These perk changes last patch sre wild design choices .
Yes, you may be right. But it's all a negative feedback, I guess. I don't know where it started, but the thing is: killer players use tunnel to cope with survivors using meta perks, and survivors use meta perks to cope with killers tunneling. It should be simpler to balance everything if there wasn't an obsession with winning. But that is something that's not even possible to change.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070062#Comment_4070062
I always play solo.
Yeah, I guessed that. The most anti-SWF players in this game are often solos. I can promise you it's not the land of milk and honey it's assumed to be. It's just having more fun while still being beat. There isn't really anything to distrust either. If I play with someone new and I don't like them, I just delete them after that session. Easy.
Except when I get several matches back to back suffering cheap tactics just so they can get their satisfaction of 'another game won'.
I get it. It's frustrating, and I'd like it changed too. I had more than one killer repeatedly slugging everyone yesterday without hooking anyone. I've been hard tunneled out by Blights 3 mins into a match. I think these things should lose power. But this sort of generalizing and assuming about bullying doesn't win people over to your side. I just got out of a match where someone accused me of targeting them because they had a Pride flag (which I never even noticed), when in reality I was on one of the worst maps for my killer, with a hex build that was immedialty cleansed, and everyone prerunning from me. He was just the easiest to catch when I became desperate. Yet he made a wildly offensive assumption and then blocked me, instead of simply starting a dialog.
I probably escape like 20-25% of my matches
...20%? That's a crazy number. Are you a newer player? Are you logged into the stat page? My 30-day as survivor is usually around 50% ER and I'm mid, at best.
It's not about liking or not liking, it's just that I've become wary of everyone. Or tired. The amount of times I've found players, usually males, who go crazy the moment you make a mistake. Plenty of people complaining or trying to show you how to do things when most of the times they don't even know. And then there's the hatemail of course, but that's another thing entirely. I'm not free of blame either. I am an introvert guy, I'm usually quiet, I'm not used to communicate, to chitchat and I usually feel uncomfortable in those situations. I mean, I can't even play Monster Hunter with one of my friends much because he gets pretty intense and chatty about what he can do or what he think I can or can't do.
Survivor stats.png Killer stats.png
I guess you're right when you say generalizing and assuming is not good (not that I mind about people being or not on my side as much) and certainly it's not fair. But even when I am to blame for falling to generalization and false assumptions, I do think we should find a way to get rid of those playstyles. I don't think it's that far fetched to think that by adhering to some basic rules, most of the players would eventually feel, if not happier, less frustrated, angry and angsty, and therefore cases in which players make other players go through hell in retaliation of previous experiences would diminish. I'm no fool, I don't expect people to give up privileges and start looking out for other people all out of a sudden or globally. But if we don't strive to do better in every situation, then we will only spiral down. And the world is already a pretty unstable and unkind place to live in as it is.
As for the numbers. Maybe it's not 20-25% and more of a 30, but it sure is not 50%. No, I'm not entirely new (been playing since 2021, must have around 2000 hours in) but my matches tend to vary a lot and I often face opponents much better than I am. But it's fine, I don't mind not escaping as long as I feel that what I did mattered or had fun doing something. I am definitely not a good survivor player, and I also don't usually care for stats, but I might to try and learn the accurate number for didactic purposes. May be my escape rate is way higher than I expect.
Edit: 36% escape rate. Much higher than I thought. -
@cogsturning said:
I'm all for deincentivizating camping, slugging, and tunneling, but you want this and SWF gone? So what's left? Every match being identical, with a hook spreading killer going against 4 solos? Boring as hell.
I'm really tired of everyone generalizing SWF. As someone who's played with serveral dozen people, there's no one way that SWF is. The comp players doing clock callouts are a tiny minority. The average SWF is regular people playing in a regular way, while talking—and still getting stomped. I escape probably slightly more matches as a solo than in a SWF, but I have more fun in SWF. It's not some all powerful force.
And as much as I'm against hard tunneling, and how I do agree some unwell people use this game to boost their fragile egos (I've met my fair share), you can't say everyone who's aggressive is a bully. You have no idea why they're acting the way they are. Carried over tilt? Losing all their other matches that day? Not even understanding there's a potential moral dilemma? Generalizing "tunnel = bully" just ain't it, just like generalizing "SWF = problematic" ain't it.
Yep, I am aware and agree that most SWFs are not navy seals squads. Still, as I said in the previous post, it's about the potential ability to cause harm. And hence why I said 'it's what I'd like, but I know it's not going to happen'. I always play solo. The one friend I played this game with left it long ago after hooking me in (pun intended) and tbh I don't trust people enough to start playing with randos. And it's fine. I love the game and I love playing solo. Except when I get several matches back to back suffering cheap tactics just so they can get their satisfaction of 'another game won'.
And for those of you who are all about numbers, I probably escape like 20-25% of my matches and I am usually fine with it. As a killer, I usually get several games of 2-3 kills, followed by several of 0-1 kills, followed by some of 4k. And it's usually fine too (even though I find killer more stressful than survivor). -
While you certainly have some points, I can't quite agree with you on many of them and find it none at all different from the own posts you're criticising. Which is valid, because I do think complains have a way of making wrong things turn better, but seems a bit hypocritical. Not saying that you have actively tried to be, we sometimes act in ways that somehow contradict what we do. But you're complaining about people complaining, after all. The irony. Not going to focus on that, though, and I could argue there's little point in arguing further, since you've made clear your opinion and I don't think I'm going to convince you otherwise. But, for the sake of debating, let's go. You are free to assume whatever you like, obviously, that's for you to decide but if you think it's ragebait (there's definitely rage in it, but I don't agree on the bait thing) I don't really understand why all the elaborated answer.
First things first, anyway, you're right in that there's no video recording proving my words, but I honestly can't be bothered to record and upload then share the videos. I've almost never recorded any videogame (I don't see the point unless you're a youtuber or streamer), never made an habit of it and thus I don't ever consider it. Nevertheless, I don't think what I'm stating is something unheard of or extremely unlikely. I have been playing for a week in the event queue and it was usually fine, but the last couple days have been worse and worse and today I got these matches. Make of it as you will.
About the SWFs thing, it's not about punishing people for playing with friends, it's about the inherent potential to get massive advantage in the 'wrong' hands. I do agree that it's not exactly fair taking that away from those who don't or can't abuse it, but that's why I said it's definitely not going to happen. But if not taking that ability away, we should try and find a solution to it.
· The efficiency of the meta should not dictate what playstyles are or not healthy, and if so, it should be changed so playing (not winning consistently) is attainable without the need to adopt these so called 'strategies'.
· I'm not sure I get your 'conditioning' argument, but yes, you have a point, players might be conditioned. I wasn't talking about the killer tunneling 2 gens done, though, they pretty much tunneled from the very first moment, which is why I criticise it.
· The game being intended as a sort of gamble, while true, does not excuse from my point of view the extreme tunneling and slugging, or any kind of abuse of a certain 'tactic' that makes another player eventually feel miserable.
· Again, if the game favours 'extremely impactful playstyles' (I don't exactly get what you're talking about - you mean tunneling I guess) maybe it should be changed. I don't think it needs to be that way.
· Mistakes are made, that's for certain. Obviously I take mistakes into account, and there are plenty, I'm not pretending otherwise. I make mistakes when playing as killer and survivor alike. Then again, making a mistake once shouldn't condemn your whole match.
· I get the feeling you think I'm asking for tunneling in a certain circumstance to be impossible. But resorting to it immediately as a basis and abusing it should not be possible and should be disincentivized. In the matches I've talked about, most of the times they started tunneling from the get-go, so no, players weren't hovering over zones the killer were trying to defend (in this scenario anyway).
· Again, the killer was putting pressure from the very first moment. Specially the Blights, and I don't get it. I suck as Blight, so hard. But these guys didn't. So if you're good as Blight, why the hell do you need to tunnel? Chances are you're going to win anyway.
· Having a bad day or reacting to previous matches is totally possible and understandable. Hell, I may even sympathize with them if so. But having 8 matches in a row (and 10 out of 12) repeating the same dynamic… Well, explain to me why I can't just dc and go next. Because I didn't, but cthulhu knows I wanted to in the last matches.
· Again, having their own vision on how to play the game seems fine. But when that vision includes actively making other people feel bad when you can play it otherwise seems shady to me. There are laws in society to prevent that for a reason. How is a game any different? Even more so, you're supposed to have fun, and yes, fun is subjective and there's always going to be someone who doesn't like something. I guess you could say it's cultural, and personal, but I personally find these behaviours unacceptable. And hence the topic.
· Is the game shifting towards a more competitive scene? Genuine question. If so, then maybe we should have a separate line for those of us who don't really want to pour hours and analyze mistakes just to get better and have a chance at playing the game (let alone winning a match).
Yes, I am trying to adapt the game to my comfort and convenience, but I think it's a reasonable and logical complain. I'm not saying 'you need to let me do gens before downing me' or 'you need to play using only one hand'. I'm asking for stablishing certain rules so that everyone can have a modicum of fun while reducing the amount of times people suffer instead. So I guess you're right in that I don't 'chin up and accept it as it is' but I don't think that's an acceptable behaviour anyway. Slavery was also once something accepted and it doesn't mean in any way it was good or right or that noone should have complained about it. When something is wrong, the right thing to do, from my point of view, is trying to make it right. So yeah, I guess it's a 'me first' mentality. So I will have a 'me first' mentality for once in my life for something I believe to be right.
And yeah, I know it happens pretty much in any other MP game. That's why I, as a general rule, do not play MP games. It just so happens that DBD is one of the only 3 MP games I play, and it is very bad actually (the other one being SMITE, but I quitted playing that game long time ago). Also, another solution could be to let us create a custom game versus bots and be able to customize their behaviour and difficulty. That way, when a player gets tired of being BMd, we could go and play some custom matches instead.
Letting aside the fact that you consider the description of my matches an exaggeration, which is fair since you have no proof, I can say that sure, sometimes I will get myself in a situation in which I'm tunneled. But most of the times, I don't. Also, if I'm watching someone being tunneled or BM'd, I will generally try to step in. And yes, if I'm being tunneled (which usually happens against killers who are better than you, because if that's not the case they can't tunnel you) it's due to a lack of skill. Which, again, if the killer finds themselves with 3 gens gone and few hooks, I understand the tunneling since I'm the weak link and they need to try and turn the tide. Again, the problem is being tunneled (or someone else being tunneled, or camped) first thing in the match. Yes, I do hope people will agree with me because I somehow always end up thinking the best of people, contrary to what life has taught me. And, if not, well. So be it. I left the forums once already. I don't need you to agree with me. I need people to be considerate, not the usual bad mannered trolls that plagues the internet.
And yes, I know people is complicated, but that doesn't mean I won't ever stop striving towards being better. Me, myself, and as a society. As impossible as it seems most of the times. -
Yeah, I have had some of those players sometimes and it is a pain and uncounterable by any means.
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You either fail to understand or to communicate, or you're trying to be a troll without success. I'm not saying I can 4k every match, nor is the purpose of the game. You have a problem (we have it as a player base) if you think you should or are entitled to 4k every match.
Your saying I must be an incredible player because I am able to 4k without resorting to cheap tactics is both absurd, lame bait and irrelevant. I'm an average player and I get 4k as much as I get 0k. Still, irrelevant.
Now, are you going to say something on topic or are you going to keep rambling about your inability to get 4k without tunneling (or lack of acceptance of the fact that you are not supposed to get 4k consistently)?
Edit: For more details, this second match I got 2k, but only because I camped the last hooked survivor when the gates were powered. -
I can. Sure, many times I get matches in which I can't. As was my last one I just played. 4 hooks, all of them got alive, and of course the stupid Mikaela had to tbag at the exit gate. Those are the kind of players that we would be better off without.
That's what MMR is supposed to be for, even though many times it doesn't work.
Being able to 4k by using those 'tactics' doesn't justify them. Sure, I guess I could make a lot of money by scuming people, that doesn't mean it's fine to do so or that I will. I see it no different, truth be told. In essence, all you are doing is taking advantage of something to take something out of people.
Edit: Being good is kind of subjective and totally relative.
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You both raise very good points I hadn't considered. I mean, obviously I had considered different people valueing rewards differently, but not to the point that they might be a good chunk of the playerbase who either have thousands of iri shards, buy the stuff they want with money or simply don't care. I always thought that 'hey, there's a chance to have some nice rewards for free, so why not have a look around if we have free time?'. But yeah, I guess there will always be people who rather have an easy win over 20 Iri Shards (or more accurately, the possibility of getting 20 iri shards).
And do you really think the rewards are 'good' enough that a noticeable percentage of the playerbase will throw a game or postpone other more vital actions for a chance to get some decent rewards? I'm not doubting your point, at all. In fact, I do believe I should have thought of it myself. But I do wonder, what would an estimated average percentage of the playerbase be who acted like that? And what rewards for the current match could incentivize disengaging with the main goal enough for people to risk an assured win?
I considered that option myself but every reward I could think of benefits the already winning side, so there's no actual point in it. -
@Terror_Misu said:
Hey! I think I remember your name. I think. Anywho!
Great write up. The idea of secondary goals, imo, are what this game desperately needs. Gens? Boring af. I wanna do something else. Chase is the only option at the moment (Which I do not dislike! lol) but other objectives would just make things a lot better, perhaps.
The 'Erie chests' idea sounds pretty awesome! Not sure BHVR would put shards or even BP in them, but the idea has merit imo.
The 'efficiency' issue is what I think will kill this from killer side. They have one objective: kill the survivors. Things are apparently waaaay to difficult for killers right now, so adding another objective will likely get MAJOR push back. This is my theory, anyway.
Personally, efficiency kill the fun part of the game, and since a game is supposed to be fun, well… yeah. The lever idea is interesting, though: Finish a gen, all gens are locked until you pull a lever. Is this correct? Could be something! :)
This would be paired with a stronger anti camping and tunnelling measures I'm still working on,Lemme know what you come up with. Would like to discuss this more when I get home. Again, nice write up!
Hiya! Thanks for taking your time to read and post a reply. About my name, not sure. I tried to participate in a respectful and constructive way but most likely ended up being the opposite since disrespectful attitudes tend to bring out the worst in me. Anyway, nice of you to remember (if remembered correctly).
I know rewarding Iri shards is most likely the biggest issue BHVR could have with this system. That's why I think making the chance for them to drop be extremely low (maybe 3%) and then giving diffferent quantities based on probability once again (say 60% chance to get 5 Iri Shards, 30% to get 10, 10% to get 20) could sweeten the deal. Specially when we're talking about 3 - 4 chests per map. Like, when you add all those conditions up, how many Iri Shards would they actually be giving away? And then you do need to take into account that players need to be invested into going out of their way to try and find them or else they will just be mostly ignored. That's what I thought when 'designing' the system. I already tried to desing different goals but all of them felt not worthy or more like a punishment for survivors, which wasn't fair.
And in regards to the 'efficiency' solutions I proposed -and yes, your understanding on the levers design is correct-, why do you think it wouldn't work if paired with the levers idea? The way I see it, balance in the game is extremely difficult to achieve, and making one side 'suffer' a minor setback could really change the whole game, so imo, it goes without saying that if I'm changing things for survivors to need more actual time to complete their goals, killer needs something similar too. That's why I thought an 'entity gauge' could be an interesting idea to work around. This kind of works like a snowball breaker in my head. Of course, it might turn out entirely different from expected, hence why I'd like to read different opinions and insight.
As for the anti camping and tunneling measures… Well, that I know some killer players won't ever accept. But I usually play -used to play- both roles evenly and I disliked having gens pop in no time as much as a killer tunneling and camping, and so tried to not rely on any of those tactics. And yet I'm trying to take into account both the fact that sometimes a killer might be 'forced' to play around a hook or hit a survivor abusing off the hook buffs as well as the fact that survivors need some buff to compensate for a extremely aggressive tunneling or camping killer to have a chance. And tbh I don't really find an in between solution I feel comfortable with. -
Tbh, if 'weaponizing' the perk means the killer can't pick up the survivor because he's moved using tenacity during 0.5 seconds, then the solution should be making the downed survivor unable to move for a second, then apply perk normally. Asking for a 10 second lapse before activating doesn't seem reasonable or fair.
I do believe the increased speed and recovery should be basekit, maybe to a minor extent, and then just boost both with the perk. Maybe add a little extra, to make Tenacity more viable. And yeah, some minor version of gen defense should be basekit. But that wouldn't solve tunneling, because tunneling killers tunnel because they can and enjoy easy, not because they "are forced to". If anything, basekit gen regression / defense would give them more time to tunnel, so maybe they could tunnel with other killers instead of the same old same old. -
@LockerLurk said:
The problem is, they previously tried all this and it didn't work, except pipping for grades which for the life of me I don't understand WHY NOT, it can't be that hard to implement.
The issue isn't bots, though they don't help. The issue is, nobody wants to play Survivor when the 2 part of 2v8 is and always has been the big draw.
The bigger issue is that Killer has simply always and always will be the much more fun mode. You never played Survivor "for fun". You played it to hang with friends.
Completely disagree. Sometimes survivor is funnier than killer. Sometimes it is the other way around. While on average killer does provide me with more fun, survivor can be extremely fun in a different way. It is true that its fun is destroyed by killers more often than killer's fun destroyed by survivors, but when it happens (and it happens) it is a worse feeling than that of a survivor.
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Well, I don't really think it's that bad. 2v8 is chaotic, most of the times you get teammates who are equally or less skilled than bots, and tbh, next 2v8 looks like the most unbalanced mode ever in favor of survivors, so I don't really think it's nothing to write home about. I'm already trying to make my mind to the fact that I'll be losing most of the trials as a killer and that it's supposed to be about just trying to go wild. I'm pretty sure I'll still be annoyed and frustrated and will stop playing after getting the tome rewards, but what can you do?
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Bumping this thread because I think it's important. Is there an official statement regarding this I'm not aware of? Can we get at least a 'We're looking into it' or even a 'We're not going to do anything' as an answer? I mean, I don't expect them to read every thread, but I highly doubt the above poster and me are the only ones suffering from this.
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Tbh I didn't read the lore because, as stated before, have other things to do and so I went down to business with the 'playable' stuff. It does sounds like you put a lot of effort into it and indeed Audrey Magna sounds cool. About your other concepts, I would love to check them if you tell me their names (so I don't have to go through pages and pages of 'Creation' tab threads), I do enjoy thinking about possible additions to the game, and in time, if you're interested, can both share our concepts.
I already like much more your updated concept on this killer's power. Having a cloud of locusts get to vault locations would fill double the purpose and I'm sure it would be an interesting gamble. So how would the gen effect end up being? -
No, I don't think so, unless you go the Casting of Frank Stone (needs to be much better, though) route or do something with another genre, kinda like LoL did with Ruined King.
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On to Perks:
Sett's Blessing: Hindered is a relative status effect, the default value being (apparently) 3%. On itself it might not be much, but if you apply it to all survivors for 30 seconds, it may be too much. Consider reducing the timer to 12/15/18 or maybe apply a heavier debuff (15% maybe) to all survivors who finished repairs on the gen.
Desert Grave: Looks cool in concept, and I take it you wish to disincentivize tunneling, but it's a one time only perk and very situational (all survivors hooked once). You could argue that there other perks already existing which are situational too, like NOED and such, and you'd be right, but I never liked NOED and never use it. You could also argue that the compensation for getting to that one-time only use is good, and you'd be right too. It's way too much, I think, specially with how good it would sinergize with other haste perks and Sett's Blessing. It would be a perk that, if used by a good killer, would completely destroy balance. Maybe have it be something like 'gain one token for each survivor hooked' kind of perk. Something has a smaller effect but can be used more often.
Follower of Anubis: Not gonna lie, I don't really dig this one. Not only you need to sacrifice a survivor to get something out of it (which would encourage more tunnelling, despite Desert Grave), but the effect is so good that it would basically allow a decent killer to stomp survivors on the ground.
Overall, the perks the way you desinged them, while interesting, would be extremely OP in the hands of, say, a skilled Wesker. You need to think of them while being used by a somewhat good killer and with a different bunch of killers in mind. It has to be somewhat useful to all Killers while not being extremely OP on other killers.
Now, on to Survivor Perks.
Ancient Eyes: Good, but again too broad I think. I'd give the benefit only to the bearer of the perk and only when they are the ones who finish the gen. Then you can give the benefit to other survivors who helped them finish the gen. I'd do something like this: 'Whenever you finish repairing a gen, you and other survivors repairing the same gen, are granted 3/6/9% haste. The effect lingers for 10 seconds as long as your teammates stay within 10 feet of you.'Blessing of Sekhmet: I'd swear there's a perk similar to this one, but if not, it's not bad, but just another healing perk. Just keep in mind that an unhook is not considered safe until some seconds have passed without the unhooked taking damage, and then maybe 60 seconds is way too much, so you could maybe consider another effect entirely.
History's Friend: It's not that it's bad, but it would make Kindred kind of redundant once you upgraded it to Tier 3. Also, having it be active every time any survivor is hooked would be way too much.
So that's all from me so far. I really hope my criticism doesn't disencourage you, it's an interesting design and you did a good job. Also, it's my point of view and I might be wrong after all. I just wanted to share my opinion and help you improve it since I do like it. -
@Ilikechips said:
Sam and Dean Winchester are arguably two of the most dangerous characters in television history.
Angel's, demons, demi gods, ghosts, monsters, arch-angels, the four horseman, Hitler, Death, every mythological creature you can think of and the most powerful thing in the world, God. They have defeated them all.
You want to what, put them in a game to be killed by Checks notes a lady with a hatchet or.. An angsty teenager with a knife?
Moronic.
The only way they would work in this game is if there was a new mode called killer killer where the Winchesters stomp killers. Of course for this to happen as they are killer killers both the killer and killer killer would have to have a 60%+ kill rate as we all know the devs simp to killer/killer killer mains so it wouldn't be able to work anyway.
Most killers on this roster wouldn't even make a filler episode in supernatural. They are a joke compared to the Winchesters.
Seeing them killed by a fat guy with a bottle or a fat guy with a chainsaw is pathetic. They are far too deadly compared to anyone in this game.
But hey while we're here why not out in Thanos as a survivor or maybe Goku or I know what about Superman? Surely they would fit as well as the Winchesters right?
What are you talking about? Thanos is a villain and Superman (aka Homelander) is already on his way as a killer.
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Overall it's good, I would have given more details but I was (still am) in a bit of a hurry. I will be going over all of it again for the next couple hours (I have things to attend to inbetween so it might take time for me to edit this post fully).
Edited: Ok, so… The Power.
·While thematically it looks good and certainly is a good anti-genrush tool, I don't think it would work quite well as a power, since it's very passive and there would be no much skill involved. It also seems a bit underwhelming somehow.
·Since it only works on gens in your terror radius, people would learn to always go outside the TR, and it would be kind of predictable, turning most likely into a boring gen regression game. In this sense, it would be more interesting imo if you could just use it on whichever gen, giving more mind-game-ability to the power (as in, blocking a faraway gen in hopes of luring survivors closer to you)
·The whole 'regressing but not blocked gens' doesn't convince me. If a gen is not blocked, it can be repaired, ignoring the power, and the 30 seconds timer until a survivor suffers from any of the effects is way too much. Not taking into account that maybe the gen will only be affected for 20 seconds if the killer decides to change the affected gen. Even if the survivors were affected (which could be prevented by just disengaging with the generator 29 seconds into the effect and then have another survivor go to the gen so it won't regress) the afflictions itself are either way too little or extremely annoying (imagine a Stegull crying for 30 seconds non stop).
·If we changed the regression only to block and regress: a gen for 120 seconds seems a lot to me, but if you can spam the power and keep alternating between let's say 2 gens and activate it 10 seconds each it's also quite powerful (preventing gen completion, not in chase). However, if let's say, we reduced the active effect to 30 seconds but also prevent the power from being spammed, then it seems way too little, since A) doesn't help in chase, B) only afects one gen and C) the gen would regress little and the duration of the blocking, while powerful on itself, would be a bit wasted given there are more gens (unless 3 gen situation, which would be way too powerful). This doesn't even take into account the possible sinergy with other gen blocking perks. Could be a nightmare.
·The fact that survivors need to spend 10 seconds in a sarcophagus while having given up their location to the killer is suicidal if the killer can just grab them from the sacrophagus, or renders the effect useless if the killer cannot interact with them.
What would I propose in exchange? Some random ideas.
·Have the power be a bit similar to the Plague. Have the Jackal place a curse on a gen (or several gens) that makes anyone who interacts with it suffer from the 'Curse' status effect. Then you can have either A) a secondary power in which you can send, say, a bunch of homing flying insects from across the map in search of the survivor, hurting them after a while (think of a mix of both the Knight's guards and the Artist's crows) or B) have a timer on them (similar to, again, Plague's vomit) and make them suffer from additional ailments when full (be creative and make them hindered and noisy while uncleansed or just go with the injure basics).
·Have it so that affected gens explode, insects crawling out of them. Then the insects come to you and give you their scent. Have them (kind of like Onryo's condemn) or you (kind of like Oni's Blood Fury) get charges so that when the charges are full you can unleash a more powerful, devastating attack.
·Definitely, if you want its power to be focused on gens, you need to give the killer a secondary ability than can hurt survivors or help them in chase. My examples were a bit poor and at least to me, facing The Onryo or the Plague is a bit of a pain, so maybe try another thing entirely.
·As for interactions, though the idea is cool, I think you would need to make it something more engaging while not making it necessary for the survivors something to do immediately after being affected. I don't know, maybe have them retrieve a treasure from a random location and deliver it to one of the sarcophagus (both taking the item and delivering it being done instantly) to lift the curse. Or have it just be Mummified, but I'd change the effects and the interaction with the sarcophagus.
That's as far as I go with the power. I know it's kind of poor, but tbh I can't think of anything better without investing more time on it, and that's something I am not inclined to do as of now (not lack of interest, but I don't have that much free time and I'd rather do other stuff). I know that it's late too, sorry, I was busy with chores and playing some DbD games in between. Maybe tomorrow I'll drop by and comment some more on the perks.Edit 2: Also, don't take my post as something pro at all. I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable about balance and such, so maybe they would say 'don't listen to this guy, he doesn't know what he's talking about'. I'm no stranger to the game (around 2500 h) but definitely not the best.
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Amazing work. I now need to try using them in a D&D campaign.
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Hmmm… While the concept is extremely cool, the killer's power is underwhelming. It really doesn't do much to slow down a gen if you are forced to be an M1 killer after that. But the opposite is also true in a 3-gen situation. Combined with the right perks, it could be atrocious to face this killer.
But we definitely could use an Egypt-themed killer. You could work a bit more on improving the concept and correcting some mistakes (like stating the power lasts for 120 seconds only to say that it is a minute and a half, which are actually 90 seconds).
Killer perks are cool (they would need to be tweaked in numbers imo) except for Follower of Anubis which I think needs a little more thought. Surivor perks are a little more 'meh' to me, but overall good work!
I would love to see more of it if you decide to give it a little more thought. -
Well, it's nice to know there are some chances, but I still would rather keep my hopes down. And btw, I don't know about you, but if Sam and Dean got in, I know I wouldn't be satisfied with any perks because to correctly portrait how badass they both are the perks would need to be 'pay to stomp the killer and mop the floor with them'.
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@CrypticGirl said:
By the time a person rejoins the match, it would be over, so I don't see the point…
While this is mostly true, I think those of us that have suffered this kind of issues sometimes would be happy to join to an almost over game and keep our bps rather than losing your time, bps and items/offerings (if any). Because sometimes this happens early in the match, but most of the times it happens when the game is interesting and or already won (though I do suspect that in this case it must be an action taken by one of the players and as such report them by stating 'suspected hacker').
But yeah, it wouldn't be the first time I'm somehow kicked out of a game I'm performing well or have achieved a difficult or annoying challenge and I lose progress and bp. That's awful, tbh. -
While it would be extremely amazing to have a Supernatural themed chapter, I think it is very unlikely. Not sure why, I just don't think it will happen. Maybe I don't want to get my hopes up.
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For me, it's definitely Adam Francis. He needs more cool outfits and voicelines.
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It has happened only a few times to me, I don't think it goes up to 10, but it sure is annoying, suspicious and unfair. Not only you lose challenge progress and bp while the others leave with all their bp and items, you also lose your offerings and add-ons.
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It could be a coincidence, but I don't really think so. It's happened to me a few times, too, always in the same circumstances as OP stated.
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Tbh current Hillbilly is a blast to play against. But in good hands, he is the god of destruction.
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The fact remains that Homelander still inspires horror and fear in the hearts of civilians (and not civilians as well) and could be fun to play as. It would definitely fit with a little work done.
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Personally I think it would be a blast if done right. And while it would not make the most sense, I still think it could fit well with the essence of this game.
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Indeed, it could. I would really like The Boys to have a chapter, it could fit very well.
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Tough question. I'd like to have, in no particular order…
Videogames
Parasite Eve
Project Zero
Any of the Supermassive Dark Pictures anthology games (including Until Dawn)
Eternal Darkness
Forbidden Siren
Alone in the DarkSeries/Films
Supernatural
X-Files
The Shining
Psycho
The BoysOther media
Marvel (thinking on Venom, it could work)
World of Darkness (you can have pretty much anything from here)
Lovecraft universe -
Tbh I did end up growing fond of it. Sure I had awful matches, just like in regular dbd, but once you get used to what the modifier actually is and just play in a different way and not pretend to win or even play it as you play regular dbd, it's kind of good.