WingerSenpai
WingerSenpai
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Can confirm.
Found this out with the following: Keys + Streetwise
STEPS: Open chest with key
ON REPEAT: swap items resulting in "infinite" charge items [Med-kits, Toolboxes, Flashlights]
It works as long as the item is placed back into the chest and has a charge bar.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828705#Comment_3828705
You can’t incentivize not tunneling. The devs have tried that by giving buffs and all that did was make it easier to tunnel. Tunneling will always be a zero skill tactic that doesn’t require perks or add ons to be run to be effective. All incentivizing does is increase tunneling by giving them more tools to do it faster, especially since so many killer mains aren’t looking for fair or challenging matches. They’re just looking to win as quick and easy as possible.
The only way tunneling will stop is when it’s PUNISHED period. Punish it and give buffs elsewhere to compensate for taking away the effectiveness of the tunneling playstyle. Until that happens, nothing will change.
Actually mechanically it can be implemented, ever since 'The Lich' is here. To stop tunneling maybe twisting around the invisibility mechanic from him would probably be a good change albeit paralyzing the unhooked survivor from interacting with anything so they can't just hop onto a gen and maybe BT 1.0 see the light of day in a bit more modern fashion.
Also I like the idea that you mention about it being punished. And on the topic of lore (if anybody cares about the consistency of it) it can be implemented in a sort of "the entity isn't deriving any emotions from this survivor" since I think it feeds on hope(?) and make them sort of unhookable with a mechanic or just raw punish the killer if the unhooked survivor isn't taking a protection hit by a hefty hindered or lock them out of their power or perks for a good bit.
@DarthYooDar45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/431054/cant-take-the-tunnelers
To be fair, maybe if every survivor didn't gen rush and make every match last five min, killers wouldn't have to slug and tunnel. I understand if you are exempt from this, but 90% of killers only slug and tunnel because of gen rushing. It's the only counter to it because every gen regression perk gets nerfed to oblivion. This game caters to survivors heavily and you can't convince me otherwise.
But as I feel currently there is a flaw in the fundementals of the game that effectively became stale at best after the game's 8 year long run. If killers find genrushing problematic (sure it was worse before kicks or when it was 80 sec instead of 90 [min 50 sec difference or similiar]) that still should not consequentially lead to tunneling as the solution. The game should have variables sure, but if there is a cause and effect then the cause should be removed. The objectives should change and evolve as well with the game's lifespan I think. Like searching for generator parts, making the survivors move more, and maybe the killers need to set up for a sacrifice too with enough blood, or something along the lines.
The sad reality of this game (I've been playing this game on and off) that during the 7 years since I got it the most obvious pattern is the following:
- Something new gets introduced (Obsession, Hexes, Boons, Scourge Hooks, etc.)
- People find loopholes that shorten or turn the tide on a very major scale (Flashlights, Mori 1.0, Mori 2.0, Camping, Tunneling, Meta Builds, Old Sabotage)
- The developers more often than not just release a new chapter containing band-aid fixes in mostly the form of perks (Shoulder the Burden, Pain Resonance, Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable (even though the last two was free)Half of the end game perks, etc.)
And this is in loop for quite a while now. Somehow almost everything recieved changes except the main objectives of the game. And sadly it shows. And over the years the game just aged, and not in the best ways one would imagine. Sure, revisiting the objectives needs time and creativity, but it has been 8 years, and there were plenty of ideas, and the game is still stuck at tunneling and genrushing no matter how you look at it.
If anyone reads this, Thank you and hope you at least partially agree with my views because this game started out as something amazing (with it's own flaws of course) but sadly it didn't stick to it's horror roots as a game, and became a burnout fest.
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@Lixadonna said:
Because all you care about is making the game as easy and effortless for Killers.
Top post of my current visit on forums.
I have encountered many inconsistencies, inconviniences over the years of playing this game. Barely any of them got touched in survivor regards but on the killer side there are so many changes which some of them I admit were nice, but it mainly benefited the killers. Like at the current release of 'The Houndmaster' are so many hitbox errors where the dog shouldn't even touch you let alone grab you.
I wonder when those will be adressed.
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It's hard to read Snug on darker maps, making him very difficult to dodge and to add insult to injury the overall pathing feels weird.
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I think the default should be like how pyramid head's cages work, random and anti camp included.
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3756939#Comment_3756939
I mean, who gonna leave the hook when there is a survivor nearby
It doesn't make sense to NOT allow it, if they want to make AFC to be that strict we really should remove the hook mechanics altogether
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That's fun. Also it's another garbage thing that the bar isn't filled when others are nearby. Sure under some circumstances it shouldn't but it just leads to "allowed camping"
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751475#Comment_3751475
I truly dislike seeing this argument being used to deflect, dissuade, and defend killers to their last breath, it's such an invalid, trivial statement to use.
Just because the game is supposed to be killer-sided, does not mean that the matches have to be absolutely miserable and every new killer added has to be able to steamroll survivors no matter what they do. The main focus is that 30/70, 40/60 split that the killers hold more than survivors do, but that scale has been FAR tipped to an extreme that makes playing survivor a living hell if you're not IN a SWF.
It's not so much the fact that Survivors have to lose something to win, it's the fact that Survivors are now ALWAYS losing. There's no fun or merit to a game where playing the opposite means getting crushed before you can even get started or getting snowballed with no way of turning the match around after.
I find it generally unhealthy to be on a constant losing streak to the point where you walk into a game and you expect to die before even completing the main task at hand. At that point, why play?
Do I expect to die? Absolutely. You're not guaranteed to win as a Survivor, that's never been the case.
But as of late, especially in the event, it's become FAR too easy for the killer side to just get hooks and kills before survivors even pop a single gen, and that's if the killer doesn't just smack it with PGTW or P-Res
The maps, save for some places, have little to do with the general misery of Survivors.@Kyntak said:
The event just emphasizes. As someone whose played this game for 6 years we need to recognize how the game defaults to the idea that a killer will face a SWF mfybmmmevery match when I'm reality, most games are randos. BHVR either needs to allow VC or internal communications or stop assuming every match is SWF. THIS EVENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FUN BUT IT'S BEEN A NIGHTMARE. I'll elaborate more if you want ((which the community will because it's clearly my fault and not the devs or killer or leaders fault it is mine)). But the event is just the tip off of how the dev and game design really thinks every survivors team is SWF. Try solo Q and understand the ABSOLUTLY FRUSTRATION dev team. It's awful. Rebalance THIS GAME
This is what can be called the conundrum of balancing in my opinion. One side has to be balanced from multiple POVs and the other compared to that is simple factored.
Killers are almost balanced as a whole. If a killer perk gets changes the whole roster recieves them. This is where their powers can be fine tuned to work according to what is sort of balanced and not as an individual but as for game health. If you look at singularity as a whole now (including 8.1.0 ptb) I think overall that locking onto survivors and just slipstreaming to them is just garbage. It removes skill expression, it's almost braindead easy to do. It is a prime example of how NOT to fix issues in this regard. However, if the EMP worked like they want to make it work now from the get go it wouldn't be as bad (maybe a 3x not a 4x speed on EMP printing but that's my personal gripe or having some sort of immunity on cameras after they come back) as it will be with the next patch. It will be overtuned as hell.
However Survivors as a whole roster gets balanced based on the terms SWF & SoloQ because the two are completly different enviroments as a whole. But for some reason things don't adjust dynamically. Everything has to be fixed via band-aiding and nothing that was balanced [let it be a previous iteration's nerf/buff] gets reverted. They gutted healing in every aspect because it was "broken". No it was not. Circle of Healing was yeah, sure. But nerfing everything about it is overkill. (Just some of these examples: 12s —> 16s heal time default, Med-Kits are now 2 heals at tops [you could achieve waaayyy more back then], Anti-Healing perks are living their best lives (Including heal decay as well), Healing perks are burnt to the ground) There is a fine line between fine tuning and excessiveness. I provided examples for the later one since that is what has been mostly seen from behavior.
Just a side note on what I think are the currently overtuned/undertuned things in the game:
- Singularity
- Healing
- Skull Merchant (does waaayyy too much with her power)
- Generator progression (with 8.1.0 in mind gens are gonna fly by without a second glance otherwise just a lil bit too fast)
- Movements (Speeds & in terms of survivors mechanical needs revisiting)
Sorry, forgot to mention that Older perks, killers need heavy updates [Think Doctor, Myers for ex. & Premonition, This is not happening, etc.]
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Let's do some maths before complaining about this.
So:
- Specialist - 3 tokens (3 search/rummage) = 12 charges off 1 gen —> 3*10 seconds on chests, has diminishing returns and 1 effect can be guaranteed with appraisal and in theory 13 chests can spawn at tops, thats 8 full activation = 96 charges [+4 for 1 token] (1 gen + 1/15th or ~6%)
- Weaving is 70 charges with also diminishing returns, depending on when it is activated +
- 4 bnps which are 10 charges each meaning a total of 206 charges
In best case scenario which is 2 gens eliminated.
Now then. This is strong in 2 scenarios, if this is spread out or put into core generators. And don't confuse the toolbox buff because the sabo speed got buffed not the repair one. And if you are not min-maxing a toolbox only the green & various event one's hold any significance in repairing due to having 50% repair speed & 32 charges. Others have less charges [Excluding Alex's the only sabo toolbox].
Meanwhile popular killer gen regress perks:
- Pop - 20% / hook —> 220% optimally [ 2 gen + 18 charges]
- PR - 20% / 1st scourge [Thank god this can't be pulled off up to 11 times now [8/9th of a gen —> 88% or so]
- Ruin - 100% regress without limit in terms of usage
- Surge - 8% within 32m [let's say the most optimal is: 8*8 [8%, 8 times] 64 % / gens [if limited by the kick mechanic too]
Adding this up is ~7 gens + ruins unlimited regressing and the fact that any gen not getting touched will proceed the regression which is almost 4sec/1% until it is completly regressed.
The main differences which may lead you to believe that specialist is broken that it permanantly removes that part of the gen, but it also requires set up, along with weaving [now it's not as punishing]. But the survivor to killer ratio is another aspect here which sligthly to moderately tilts this to the survivors side in a raw vacuum.
And that's where I think the whole genrushing is kind of overextended by now. Killers can very easily apply pressure in many forms from almost constantly spamming powers [some are more annoying than others], having perks that put genrushing/action speeds, etc. down, survivors sacrificing survivability for efficiency (keep in mind that this requires 2 perks from everyone and a 3rd from a minimum of 1 person).
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@ReverseVelocity said:
How would I track Survivor's blood with all that blood everywhere??? Survivor sided suggestion smh.
Imagine a map having some flavor for once and actually look more horror esque. Also shading could solve your issue.
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@Emeal said:
And here comes the worst part: In soloQ, people don't even punish killers for tunneling, because nobody even sits on gens. And there's zero communication in this game.
Are you saying you think if you could communicate with other survivors, lets say by a command wheel, that would make survivors more effective while you are being tunneled? maybe or maybe not.
If you ask me, killers need to receive punishments for choosing to tunnel. If you hook the same survivor twice in a row, the requires charges to finish all generators get reduced by 5%, stacking up to 5 times or 25%.
And what if I cant find anyone else but the unhooked? Just screw the Killer right? Thats not fair either.
Though I think you are right that bHVR OUGHT to have some 2 anti-tunneling perks in the game for free by default.
That's where I leave them slugged instead of instantly hooking them. This causes 2 things.
1. I don't straight up tunnel someone out of the game even if they are the only one I can find (even though I don't like this option very much either) and just reducing them to a sitting duck that has to be picked up
2. Still applies pressure to the others to do something and may force chases in certain cases. and they are still down a person for the duration of picking them back up.
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I've read about a lot of stuff so far and it's funny, really. Using perks as reasons for slugging people for 4 whole damn minutes. Is this really what it has come down to? It is unjustified to slug in most cases. The only one of these I find reasonable is the "they have a clear shot of saving" scenario where you have no walls in your face, you hear them already running or they are under a pallet but 4 minutes is just damn too long.
The only reason I slug people is that they just got rescued and I accidentally hit them (this has happened way too often when they barely ran out of bt and took a hatchet not addressed to them ) or I wanna punish them but not immediatly murder them.
Why can't this whole community just chill? Why can't a long chase be enjoyed? Why is everyone tunnel visioned on their sole objectives? Why is this game competetive at this point?
Somehow I enjoy people playing well against me, let it be them punishing me for stupid decisions or me punishing them for their missplays. But for some reason the only thing that bugs me is just how many stupid things I can get away with as killer. Knowing those things and facing them as survivor is also horrible. One of these example is for killers spamming their powers and not getting punished in any shape or form, or survivors having too little objectives. This game should've evolved to some extent compared to what it was 8 years ago in this regard.
And also it wouldn't hurt if we could provide more feedback or feedback in a more direct way so we would know if it has any impact or developer groups streaming gameplay so we would have proof that they actually do something with purpose instead of just relying on a small group's feedback.
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I think pallets should be brought back as well just with a little disadvantage. If hooks respawn after 60 seconds (I mean the original hangman's trick did that but with 10 seconds instead of 60) pallets could respawn with like a 120-180 sec cd and an added condition of being fragile but not insta break so killers get a bit punished for constantly respecting pallets. Either half the break time of each iteration of the respawned pallet and they can only respawn twice (so 2s (or default) → 1s → 0.5s → no respawn or insta break) or it breaks after briefly finishing a vault action or another scenario where pallets break themselves after 2s automatically after dropping if they are respawned (they still respawn twice or so).
That way the thing that occurs during the anniversary where killers respect 85% of party pallets won't be a problem and they wouldn't get a free hit.
The reason why insta-break is fine in the event is that there is basically barely any limitations of spawning them, but in a normal game where very map dependantly (from 8-30) either pallets are the only resources that can loop or there are enough windows on the map where pallets are not as neccessary and only gives survivors a hot second to think about their next move.
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@vol4r said:
Hello.
I feel like we should have some perk balance changes. I listened some of my ideas below.My ideas consider niche perks, with low usage for both roles.
Survivior:
- Spine Chill - revert the nerf. We don't see that perk anymore.
- Iron Will - give it 100% but doesn't work while exhausted or leave it be 75% but exhaust status doesn't affect it.
- Lucky Break - let healing other increase the duration on a higher rate, 1 sec of healing = 1.5 or 2 sec of perk duration to be increased
- Pharmacy - rework the perk so it gives medkits from rummage, not the chest itself.
- Bite the bullet - reduces the noise when you heal but also when you are getting healed by others.
- Blood Rush - let the perk be used 2-3 times in a match, based on tokens which player is granted at the beginning of the trial
- Botany Knowledge - let's get rid of reduction healing efficiency of medkits, we can't get 1 heal of a MK while using the perks without addons.
- Calm Spirit - get rid of speed reduction.
- Clairvoyance - we could use it while holding an item.
- Distortion - recharges only while in a chase.
- Empathy Connection - increase healing speed bonus.
- Light-footed - decrease or get rid of it's cooldown after rush vault actions
- Low Profile - let it work after the unhook for 30 seconds. That would give surviviors a way to hide after being unhooked, possibly preventing being tunneled by the killer
- Poised - on top of hiding scratch marks it would show auras of generators for 6/8/10 seconds
- Scavenger - reduction of repair speed would last 25/20/15 second
- Self-care - let's make it 40/45/50% healing speed. That would make self-healing take 36 sec
- This is Not Happening - we don't need to be injured anymore, works while fully healed
Killer:
- Blood Echo - decrease cooldown to 40/35/30 seconds
- Bloow Warden - adding feature: exit gates close for 5/10/15 seconds after opening the gate
- Dissolution - actives 1 sec after injuring the survivior, instead of 3
- Fire up - each token grants 4/4.5/5% to action speeds.
- Hex: Ruin - buffing regress rate to 100/125/150%
- Oppression - decrease cooldown to 100/80/60 seconds
- Overcharge - make th regression to start from 100%
- Save the best for last - revert the changes. Perk was not that opressive while unhooks, surviviors still could trade even with 8 stacks
- Septic Touch - make effects linger for 10/15/20 seconds
- Surge - Increase regression to 8/9/10%
- Thwack - would activate whenever you break the pallet, without getting a hook, but the range would be 5/10/15 meters
- Trilling Tremors - change cooldown to 80/60/40 seconds
- Undone - surviviors don't really miss skillchecks. let's grant 3/5 tokens for every successful hit on a survivior.
What you guys think?
Yikes. It was a bit too much to take in as fast as I read it but here is my opinion:
- Survivor side:
- Spine Chill —> I agree, maybe only remove the vault speed to prevent complaints again…
- Iron Will —> By itself would be a bit overkill. They should bring back the very very original that you get 100% while standing still and 75% at any other time.
- Lucky Break —> It should pause the timer while you are being healed, so it won't come out to 0.
- Botany Knowledge —> Bring old Botany back. 33% bonus speed & efficiency. It would perfectly cancel out the self-heals debuff.
- Self-Care —> Doesn't need tweaking by itself, healing times should be shortened by 2-4 seconds.
- Distortion —> In chase it should charge at 50% efficiency. So it can be used against undetectable killers.
- Low Profile —> It would overlap with Off the Record. And at that point it should be somewhat of a base kit idea to prevent tunneling.
- This is Not Happening —> Just scrap the perk. After a bit it's useless to most survivors anyways.
I mainly "rated" the survivor perks since thats the side I play more. The rest is either fine or doesn't need too much of a change.
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@Ginnypig said:
Do you survivors ever stop complaining at all? Are you really missing 4 slowdown perks every single game?
Play against it and you shall see. I think if you only play one side your opinion on the matter is basically invalid, since you don't know how the other side works. Thank you.
And may I add how the devs don't play their game where balancing usually feels misguided, and in some case actually pointless?
And while I'm at it let me reverse the question: Do you wish to play against 4 hardcore genrushers every single game who loop you for eternity?
@CLHL said:
Nerf requests are becoming more and more ridiculous. Yeah, you can get value from it, that's the point of having perks in the first place.
With the exception of small maps such as Midwich, I don't see the problem. Although we could say the same about placing a boom totem in such a way that leaves a quarter of the map winouth scratch marks.
It's not that nerf requests are requested more and more just for the heck of it. It's most of the time a balance or mechanic issue that isn't addressed properly in the first place or the decision they made on the matter was from another time where it worked, but they didn't revert it or addressed it since (looking at ds & tunneling where DS was kept 3 seconds when tunneling and camping became insanely relevant just to say one, or COH and the entirety of healing getting nerfed [12 sec —> 16 sec heals & COH 100% eff. SC basically, to 75%, later 50% then only heal speed boosting, and also gutting medkits basically making them weak [you can't get 2 heals without perks or with luck + add-ons]).
The only part that bugs me about this is about someone dropping the item by their own decision. Franklin's doesn't work on it, so why does WA do tho? Also most lobbies usually run 4 items (but 2 as a minimum I've seen recently) now, the perk has a 12 meter radius, gives 30 second oblivious on pickup (if I'm not mistaken). Let's compare it to it's counterpart basically which is Wiretap basically.
Wiretap has a 14 meter range, 120 second duration, gives a minimal info on undetectable killers (if they kick the associated generator) and has a prerequesite of half a generator being complete before applying it to any generator that has even a sliver of progression. The perk is deactivated if it's timer is up, or the killer damages the generator.
Let's compare this to WA.
The aura reading zone is very big (by area, the radius doesn't sound terrible until you do the math) it can last the whole game, it can be countered only 3 ways: Bring a perk against it (Distortion, Shadow step or Off the Record) where neither of them helps too much in the situation, Bring Object of Obsession to constantly have a staring contest against each other, or put items in a useless corner.
In my opinion it's slightly overtuned because of the fact that it has 2 effects that are pretty valuable. Counteractable even if only slightly, but still. I would reduce it's radius by 2 or 4 meters at max, and chip a bit away from the oblivious effect, or something has to be done with Franklin's. But this needs to be addressed too sooner or later just like the 3-gen hostage meta was. Or the Bully Squads, or the "Ruin single handedly stalling games for a decade" time was addressed.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743674#Comment_3743674
I would not go that far.
Most perks on both sides are sitationally useful. That means, that in some situations, they will give good value but are useless in others.
This, of course, makes them less desirable than perks that give guaranteed value almost every game.
Does it make them useless though? No. I think not.
90% is also a bit exaggerated don't you think?
They are not useless, as in fact as a person who prefers survivor I know all perks effects, and let me tell you a good 15-20% of the perks is only that bad that they need some stitching, others are as you mentioned, are more situational, however all of them can be used to gather value one way or another. (Some perks of the stiching category: Premonition, This is Not Happening, Borrowed Time [not entirely useless just an enhance I think more than a perk now], Up the Ante [Too situational, and an abysmal effect that is Luck], Chest perks all together for looting gets less and less relevant besides tomes usually, or you open chests without them [Plunderer's, Ace in the Hole, Apprasial mainly], etc.). On killer side there are a couple of these too. The perks wouldn't be bad, they are just old and need a little fine tuning, or synergies built into the perks themselves.
@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743873#Comment_3743873
I mentioned it. Like Lightborne, killers can use the perk ONLY if there are at least 2 flashlights. Same to this perk, they ONLY use if there are 3-4 items. So bringing the case where survivors dont bring item just to justify the perk is weak or useless is silly, using this perk when there is 1-2 items is on killers' fault, not the perk is weak.
You may never know when flashbang squads or residual manifest gangs start being meta :D . And just as a side note Lightborne is not neccessary either, because most of the times the blind will barely matter, or you look into a wall anyways.
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@Ohyakno said:
That's honestly kind of cool. Pretty unapproachable from a standpoint of learning the game though.
Well the people who are in the game but don't get too much knowledge on perks before this implementation would suffer the most I think. Because they just started playing, getting a little comfortable maybe, but everything is shaking around them. As far as learning, if it's executed well there is not too much to add on a knowledge basis, and players starting with this mechanic already existing may not have that bad of a time since they didn't know the system before that.
Think of it as a selectable 5th perk (sort of) which is a bit weaker in overall impact but synergizes with 2 perks (unofficially more) and it may just fix or return some things that were taken out as a little side-snack. And if you want to play with a build not including a synergy, sure. These effects are more like enhances to already used perks, even though some of them might feel a bit overpowered on paper.
Also I think after boons, hexes, teamwork, obsession, scourge hook perks, this wouldn't add anything crazy as in terms of gameplay mechanics or things to pay attention to mid game. These would just feel like gentle bonuses so that underused perks may return or as a compensation mechanic.
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@Ohyakno said:
It's ok. They'll absolutely gut weave attunement in response to the complaints and we'll have yet another pointless perk that does nothing at the end of the day. Then everybody will slot the game stall perk of the week in it's place and the sweet sweet status quo will be preserved. Nobody's allowed to have anything interesting or new. Just the same stuff, for forever.
Welcome to the life of someone who doesn't like using meta perks, or doesn't look at them like they are meta (because I want to enjoy the game but somehow I always find the sweatiest and untolerable killers :) ) and I could almost make every perk work, but whoops. BHVR just came and slapped buffs-nerfs across the board and now nothing exists just the meta.
Thankfully I don't mind such things. Because at the end of the day something will ruin a game that otherwise I would've had fun in. Let it be perks, maps, or in some cases certain killers with obnoxious combos.
For some god forsaken reason somehow no one in the dev team came up with actual perks that could influence one another to have a different effect/or tweaked numbers. (Like DH + No mither combo should remove DH's hook requirement so the adapt would be doable, and you are still 2 hit if you look at it.
Imagine a couple of these:
- DH + No Mither —> DH doesn't have hook requirement
- Calm Spirit + Iron Will —> Iron will becomes 100% again / 75% isn't linked to exhaustion
- Decisive Strike + Object of Obsession —> Stunning the killer by any means shows their aura for 3 seconds (or other value)
- Call of Brine + Overcharge —> Would cause additional gens to gain the effect if they are not being worked on with the color change on the kicked gen.
- Pentimento + All hexes [?] —> If a hex is broken all additional totems are blocked for x seconds (10 [?])
- Tinkerer + Enduring —> Enduring gains a token every x seconds spent in chase to resist a pallet stun completly.
- Hope + Resilience —> Hope gains tokens for each generator completed and each token gives 0,5% haste while in chase for x seconds for a period of x seconds.
- Resilience + This is not happening —> While injured great skill checks gain +x% progression bonus.
- Bloodhound + Predator —> Survivors noises are increased by +x%
And these are just a couple ideas. Some weaker perks could have multiple ones. Otherwise the balance of these combos would be up to the developer teams and would shake up the meta a little.
Back to the original topic though. The only gripe I have with Weave attunement is it combos with franklin's too well and 12 meters is almost an unconditional wiretap. And survivors don't have as many chances hiding their auras unlike killers.
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@francotorra said:
Its necessary put an end to the genrush, specially with the genrush builds, there people who don´t care about having fun, they just want to repair and leave as soon as posible. I know what are they are going to tell me "the objetive of the survivors is repair the 5 generators and escape" of course, but this types of builds promotes toxicity, it does not contribute anything good for the game or for the DBD community.
BHVR please create a system that does not allow combined these perks or directly eliminate them, all the anti genrush perks received a nerf but the survi genrush perks did not receive any changes.
I dind´t do a 2k stop posting that THANKS.
Also if we are at anniversary problems, how come when I play killer I have the decency to not slug, tunnel, camp. Like it's worse than in normal games. I don't know how but these problems are still not addressed correctly, just like genrushing or certain perks.
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@dbd900bach said:
Just slight curiosity coming from a killer main that tries their best to not tunnel. Up to the point of completely ignoring someome that was unhooked even if no one else is around. Yet I still get the 4k so the question I'm asking is if survivors still find blame somewhere?
Slugging never happened. Maybe the perks I'm running or the particular or perhaps the killer? Perhaps it naturally just falls to their teammates or is it all of the above? I suppose the point I'm getting at is how do people still find a reason to complain when the killer played fairly?
It's a stupid question. That much I do know.
This is sort of my playstyle too. I play huntress mostly (I am a survivor main but enjoy her every little detail) and I don't tunnel. Instead either I slug a person (because I don't wanna rush hook them but if it comes to it it happens) or I give them a sort of grace period. Which is either around 30 seconds, and the next bump in costs them or until I hook someone else. So in a matter sometimes tunneling appears as a side effect but it's never a main playstyle for me.
Maybe it's me and my conscience stopping me from it but I know how it feels to be tunneled over and over and over again so I try to avoid it to an extent.
And my games are pretty varied. Sometimes they effectively work against themselves, sometimes I get so ran over I just blink with wide eyes and think "What the hell happened?". But no matter I accept what happens.
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Okay so let me clarify some things that need it the most. 70% kill rate means the killer is mostly dominating lobbies over and over again. It's been 2 months give or take since OP made the post. Fun fact, that didn't change anything at all. And pray tell me where the devs were when she had a 10% hindered when you were deep wounded because you can't play a loop against her for that very reason, which in terms forces you to go to a different tile overall, and let me tell you most maps have 8 useful tiles at tops, some of which are weaker some of which are stronger. The excuse I see here is the "suicide on hooks" which shouldn't be used just because of simply hating her. I see the problem somewhat in her power and not giving her the right treatment. She was somewhat unjustly reworked into this mess, which I see was being pointless, because no matter how I look at it locking down 6 potentially completly seperate areas in 10m radiuses are just overkill, along with the pointless buffs she gets from the drones (haste & undetectable). Either one would be fine but the two together is just overkill.
I would go ahead and say my opinion of how I think she should be combined into the two versions of her taking away some of the parts that created this mess.
- Revert her drones to gives certain effects upon being in their radius for set period of time (this way survivors are not as harshly punished as they were with her original design and the current one).
- Remove one of the effects (either one is fine as long as it's done properly)
- Claw traps should function as a sort of buff to the drone's effect not as a secondary power basically. (Can't take fast vaults, get incapacitated for a short time [don't make eruption v2], slower action speed, next instance of damage within claw trap's lifetime is a deepwound, etc.)
- Hacking a drone shouldn't just render them inactive it should require some sort of action from the killer to turn them back on [possibly even remotely after some time (10-15 seconds)] in which case they get a grace period)
- Keep the LOS requirement (I think that was a problem with the original version but not sure)
- The number can be kept 6 and I think it should be although I would lower the radius to 8 or let her have 3 with 12-14 meters. I think the current numbers feel a little overtuned, especially with her monitor. Also I would give back the eye to survivors with an active trap because it was a unique visual, and actually gave them a sense of uncertainty in some cases.
This is MY version of "Skull Merchant 3.0" where I combined her current and older design in a sensible way so it's not as oppressive as it is currently, but not as useless as it was before with the 3 drone. I think this way skull merchant players won't lose their mind, and survivors can breathe a sigh of relief and not neccessarily have to die of boredom facing her.
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Can we just talk about why they had to ground up an already nieche perk (which would've become more releveant, since every or every other killer has something to do with screaming now…) and even stab it in the chest with the added debuff you get to some actions?
Devs are sadly making the bad decisions at bad times mostly. Look at the anti tunnel perks, how much of those have been gutted. Look at Dead Hard, because that perk had to go (fine) but thank god No Mither and David's Adept challenge still exists. And now it's almost undoable thanks to that.
They could add conditions or modifiers to a perk, but I guess another 3-4 years may be needed for that.
I've seen metas change over 9 years. And somehow something worse always comes along and the only band-aid fix, if it even counts as a fix, is to push out a new DLC with new perks which sometimes provide solutions to said problems instead of patching those problems into something reasonable.
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I think the gen system needs a shake up. It is bad this anyway you look at the current state of it. As a survivor it's boring as hell. As a killer by the time you usually (emphasis on USUALLY) catch a survivor who is experienced in looping 1 or 2 gens fly by minimum. I think the gen system should be a treasure huntish game but then depending on the solution killers and survivors may need to be hindered. I don't say there is no skill in either role but sometimes on both sides feels like you don't need functioning brain cells.
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IMO scratches are the least of the game's current problems atm, but I don't consider it too much of a problem. As a person playing both sides, I sometimes run Lightweight as survivor, and barely anyone runs it but it can give a considerable advantage as long as you are confident in your looping skills. As a killer I don't see it as a problem because I'm more auditory than visual when chases go in weird directions. I prefer playing more killers so I don't know which killer suffers more or less, but scratch marks are not as inconsistent, even though they are WAAAAAAYYYY less visible than they were before the map reworks started and that's a fact.
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Yeah, don't know how many veteran dbd players are here, but remember when you saw iri hatchet huntress and ppl dc-d immediatly?
No? Then you shouldn't remove the feature because it keeps matches effectively in check. And those who constantly rage get a lil headpat and a time out so they don't work themselves up too much.
TLDR: you want even more chaos in an already chaotic game which would efficiently kill the game itself… I mean not kill it exactly but would reduce effective playtime by a ton. -
@CammyChameleon said:
A while back 10 Seconds were added to gens, which I think was a much needed and solid change on the game, but in terms of dealing with the current gen speeds going so fast, I don't think adding another 10 seconds per gen is the best way to handle this. 1. That would be more boring for the survivor side for what I enjoy, and 2. I think Base kit corrupt can help with a lot of these issues.
Base kit corrupt would help all killers out, while also helping to deal with the larger maps, and also helping to deal with survivors spawning right on top of the objectives.
I know it's not optimal to spawn and work on a corner gen, but often times that's what survivors, including myself do. It's fast and convenient, and gets the gen done usually before the first down.
However when the killer has corrupt the survivors are forced to work there way into the map, and explore more to see what gens are not blocked, and what they have to work with.
This I think makes it more on par with killer since the killer has to also work their way into the map to find their objectives (i.e. finding survivors to chase).
It would be really unfair for the killer to spawn next to a survivor. Which is why it doesn't work like that. It should also be seen that it's really unfair for survivors to spawn next to the gens. Since we don't want the maps to be huge, it's hard to spawn a survivor away from a gen, which Is another reason why I think base kit corrupt would help. It would allow survivors to spawn next to gens, just ones that are blocked for the first minute of the game.
This would allow both sides to get set up properly and begin the match at "the same time". Because as it feels for killer right now it's like survivors start a minute before you do.
At the current state of the game (Chucky is the latest killer in 7.4.0) I think gens are just designed badly. I would redesign the objective sense of it completly because there are facts we can't skip in the game IMO:
- Gens at 90 seconds can be rushed down incredibly fast if a team is at least slightly coordinated on completing objectives
- Some slowdown perks are getting value more than others and stacking them is not good for game health I think ("Hostaging" meta)
- After more than 7 years simple M1 objectives need a touch-up I think.
- Also reworking gens [and maybe even hooks] would freshen the game up, and if implemented correctly the game would not lose it's identity.
To sum up I think the game at this time is just plain and not much is involved. I guess an overhaul would fix stuff (change objectives, add game modes, items, power&perk variants possibly, etc.) because I played this game for multiple years and it lost it's fun and exciting feeling when it started to look more like a prank wars, where both sides (and survivors amongst themselves sometimes) have to screw with each other.
To me this was one of the 1st games i put more than a thousand hours into and it just became stale because of the toxicity, the old and dumb mechanics that stayed in the game, the constant bashing of one side before the other gets any changes, And the huge issues that are not addressed or band-aid fixes that just doesn't sit right when playing the game.
I'm so sad that this game is a rubble, and it needs some serious fixes.
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I don't think so but it is very close in frames at least, but it may have been. It otherwise shouldn't exist if you are on the verge of finishing a vault. A so called "bug" kept this in place but since then it's patched. :)
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@EldritchElise87 said:
Just a quick post, as i have been gone for almost 2 years and its been a lot to catch up on getting back into the Killer role after a long beak, as many others have done. Aside from the usual complaints and balance issues, it really does feel like killers have not been having a great time, and survivors have had endless reams of quality of life improvements and buffs, to make up for 1 dead hard nerf, killers having hard counters since Wesker, Maps being made more survivor sided with reworks etc. (Red forest has more fog than old purple fog addons, its insane)
(Its crazy how it seems every survivor that plays the game is hard of hearing, as good as accessibility options are Would a visual footstep/vault sound indicator be too much to ask for perhaps?)
But the main thing that i have noticed when actually playing is that now with the built in endurance after an unhook, and how prevalent survivors blocking for the unhooker is.
It just seems the better play to tunnel now almost every time, or at least, if you force me to hit your endurance, it is almost always the best choice to follow you up and try and get the down.
I can understand how this might be frustrating from a survivor pov, but with so many ways to deny a hit with endurance, and the only time you know someone hasn't got endurance, is right after its activated.
Why is this not always the best play?
On that note, given the vast amounts of info survivors have now, a visual indicator of who is currently invincible wouldn't be game breaking would it?
I think you missed the part where killers could hold the game hostage until the servers had enough and matches hit the time limit thanks to Eruption, Call of Brine and Overcharge, (or whatever the 3rd perk was in the combo) which basically stunted the survivors ability to progress the game for 30 seconds. That patch was literally almost unplayable. Or the times when killers constantly get good or even great perks while survivors (last exception is MFT) get mediocre perks at the very best.
Also remember the perk overhaul where most survivor perks got tuned down, very few saw real changes and killer perks as far as I was concerned were yet again, get QOL changes/buffs. So I don't know where you got the bright idea that this game was survivor sided, but if you commit to a single player, not spread pressure, not learn a killer properly or you are a beginner with it (<-- in most of these cases the lack of experience causes loses, or getting survivors way above your skill level) don't mind losing the game because that's on you.
But I wonder then:
- How come there is only about 10-15 killer perks seen overall throughout most matches when there are a lot of perks which are underrated yet can perform exceptionally
- everybody runs one of 5-8 killers when all of them are viable (in a lot of scenarios)
- Always see high-tier add-ons when they should be scarce/expensive/change play style/straight up overpowered as hell
- stick to one strategy throughout most of the game (camping/3-gening/tunneling)
My answer is that most killers who started playing this game now only play the "easy mode", same goes for most survivors. And that's how a game gets boring. Everyone runs meta and metas are usually stale. Remember when gens couldn't be kicked and still killers got 4k-s across the boards without runing noed, being a nurse etc? I still do. And sadly that was a buggier and less polished period of the game, but then you didn't have 90% of the games getting tunneled/having to tunnel. What changed? Because in my opinion most of the annoyances are pretty much gone, and there are enough perks on killers to compensate for weaknesses and for survivors to focus on an aspect or give a little boost to all of them.
But it's funny that you wanna tunnel and that's because they made a good change for once for survivor players (sorry 2nd good one being removing hook grabs [yet hits still interrupt]) that they don't play with 3 perk slots (bt was a must back then, you must remember). But go ahead, tunnel, be competetive, ruin a game for others, because it seems like a trend with killers with your taste to be selfish/arogant and straight out not value others' opinions.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3510516#Comment_3510516
then we fix both (:
I like you and your enthusiasm, but years of experience hints to me that this will be pushed aside as well.
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@FirsEncounter said:
Hello, I'm a musician, totally fan of the game and a bit obsesive with it. A few years ago I was dedicating myself on a YouTube channel to making fan-made music for the game of possible killers and chapters that I would like to see in the game and logically I had done the Alien one previously.
Honestly, as a songwriter musician, I'm not too happy with the chase song they've given the Xenomorph (with most of the killers that have come out lately) so I'd like you to take a look at my interpretation of the character in the game and give me your thoughts on whether it would work in this game or not.
Thank you very much for the space and taking the time to listen to it if you do.
You're the best! <3
(the chase music is a bit too busy imo and would be a bit distracting but still fantastic!)
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@BuffDoctorClown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3510435#Comment_3510435
Which addon do you think is the best?
I think Acidic Blood is one of the most creative add-ons that actually seems balanced, fun, and inventive.
It has a balanced duration, gives a sort of bloody coil like effect but on stuns, fits the character and counters smash hit to some degree.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3510402#Comment_3510402
Hinder how besides "cant hook me cause i ran into a corner"?
Then explain to me how come that on more than not there are 3 or more hooks having:
- Direct line of sight on each other
- And being in a 30 meter radius (all 3 of them)
Because by your way of thinking you have a problem with edge map hooks, I have more of a problem with mid map hooks, but sometimes edge map hooks (for similiar reason as you if I decide to play killer) yet if I have a somewhat reasonable idea I get boo'd down or if I have an opinion I get judged for having such just because I play survivor.
Also killers holding games hostage took months to fix. (CB, OC, Eruption combo). This has been for years, and somehow this is not adressed. They would most likely just chalk it up to "you have the option to use an offering to change that fact.
And now remembering: Scourge Hooks. How would those perks effect the game if hooks couldn't perma break? Sure as hell "Floods of Rage" and "Gift of Pain" would get value out of that that's for sure.
Under the 7 years dbd has been runing hooks have changed the following ways for anyone who doesn't know:
- Sabotaged hooks didn't respawn, then 180 sec respawn and now 30 second respawn after sabo
- Old Hangman's Trick respawned broken hooks and marginally decreased sabo respawn timers.
- Quality of life hooks spawn logic change from 1 every 3 tiles to a fixed minimum and maximum (based on offering), meaning that there is less of a problem now than back then.
In conclusion, hooks changed a lot. And shame on the people who run corner just to not get hooked. Okay that's fine. But if you hate edge hooks now, imagine them back then.
@[Deleted User] said:
Boil over corners or dead zone exploits should be considered abusing game mechanics.
I am very much against slugging, camping, tunneling. But if I end up with players who refuse to do anything but run to a corner with boil over? I slug them and let them bleed out. The team isn't really losing anything from them dying 🤷🤷
I have to agree with you. No harm no foul removing those people. If I see those kinds of people I sometimes only bother for the points. Or not even.
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As a survivor it feels to close already without the offering, especially if the killer decides to hook someone in the middle of the map, removing the hook break would be only executeable if they are more spaced out too.
I understand your problem don't mistake me because I usually see Ormond suffer from this problem if the killer doesn't account to it and the survivors pay enough attention, but just removing it for "no price" wouldn't be justified because it would only benefit killers and hinder survivors.
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@Xendritch said:
Nerf exit gates to 45 seconds and you have a deal. I'm all for ending 3 gen slogs if in exchange we can make end game an actual phase of the game instead of a formality.
Make it a minute, have the slowest regression ever, and have them WAAAAYYYY more spaced than how they're generated now (seriously that's a problem imo) and it would be fine.
PS.: left out: make gens 80 sec again.
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@Sharby said:
The bottom line is that this is a community-driven problem.
Everyone wants an easy, chill game, but also want to win. How do you accomplish that in a PVP game?
Play against people severely under your skill level.
Meaning, if they put a ranked mode in nobody would use it because people don't actually want appropriate MMR based on how people complain they go against Tryhards every other game. So the people that sweat will always be mixed in with the casuals because they don't want to go against other sweats, so the casuals will continue to be punching bags for content.
Harder games means less 5-gen chases, less 4ks, less flex-able moments overall. The current community is way too competitive for it to ever work.
All the devs can do is either rework the game's objectives overall (sacrifices/gens being replaced.) Put a PVE mode in, or continue to put carrots on sticks everywhere to prevent people from playing efficiently (gen-rushing, tunneling, etc.)
I'd say we're a ways away from the current game-state tanking the population of players though.
Ranked would be executeable to a certain degree. Offer stuff exclusively limited to ranked and people should experience ranked games as a sort of "test" where they go up against a killer of their rank or a freshly promoted/demoted one and every 5-10 games is forced to be ranked otherwise it is casual.
But it definietly needs to be built/blended into casual play because people are willing to go for the throat in this game. Or just add rank based perks (ash IV gets +5% speed, +5% action speed for each survivor alive etc. [this needs actual balancing but you get my idea]) and maybe get handicaps based on rank difference/high ranks for balancing purposes so a new killer won't be face stomped by 4 man swfs as they step into the game.
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@SleepyLunatic said:
Point of this? Just so you can trashtalk killers who, by your own logic now, play as efficent as possible?
Playing efficiently by your standards is "Let's pick a person who's day I should ruin today." Being efficient is not playing the game as intended because people place to much punctuation on playing the game way more competetively and sweating all over themselves, same goes for those swfs who constantly play for saves non-stop and clicking flashlights and t-bagging constantly. Also it's sadly not trastalk if it's true.
And to comment to op's post as well, this has been an issue in multiple fashions, back then with literal facecamping, then tunneling so bt was effectively a must, then they made bt-lite basekit, and now they did nothing after (if i'm not mistaken) solid 1,5 years about this problem.
@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477907#Comment_3477907
There's already a bunch of anti-tunnel in the game though. If a survivor doesn't want to or isn't skilled enough to use the many options they have, that's a skill issue.
You're right, but none of them are solid enough considering the meta, and killers most of the times just outright deal with these one way or another, and none of them are worth runing anymore.
- DS got nerfed to 3 seconds, can only be used for 60 sec, and renders you almost completly useless for it's duration if you want to get any value or you outlast it.
- Killer counter mechanics got removed that gave survivors a slight edge at the start of a chase (think burning the wraith out of cloak with a flashlight/flashbang)
- BT is basekit, but with the perk on most of the times it just get curb stomped like most endurance perks because its just an extra health state which in a game where you get tunneled it's useless because all that means is the killer got a "fresh chase" for 15 seconds which is non-sense because most of the times either killers time it or survivors outlast it.
- OTR is a decent version of BT but with the same problem as ds as but with silent grunts/no aura reads.
- Other endurance perks mostly won't effect a killer who is tunneling except if you run something like the new buckle up and for the people or some similiar stuff preventing the downed survivor from dying.
My problem with tunneling is that if you want a solution you have to use a perk slot for it (minimum 1) and there is nothing in the game that gives the unhooked survivor a period of grace where they could actually get away and guarantee that they won't be harassed for that time.
@SweetTerror said:
In a lot of my killer matches, it's not uncommon for 1-2 gens to be done before I've even gotten my first hook. Smart survivors will apply pressure by splitting up on gens, whereas smart killers will focus on the one survivor that is closer to being removed from the game.
A survivor's priority are the gens, and a killer's priority are the survivors. Blaming one another for getting the job done is ridiculous. If anything feels unbalanced, that's on the devs, not the player.
You're not wrong but you're not right either. Smart is not equivalent to good. Smart survivors do their objectives the fastest way they can. So do smart killers. But good survivors will do secondary objectives as well because they are considering NOED (still an 11% pick rate perk since april) and other tide turner perks that can effectively win the game for the killer. And good killers will most likely apply pressure by snowballing in a game, and rather downing a freshly unhooked survivor instead of hooking them again because in most cases it applies more pressure.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498440#Comment_3498440
Please enlighten me as to what the counter play to this is : https://streamable.com/whcaot
Killer plays the tile perfectly, yet because that "loop" was around 16s, MFT gave the Ada an extra 2 meters of distance over perkless and got a chase extension.
I keep telling people in these threads, re-watch any recent dbd video/stream, and count how many times a survivor with MFT made it to a pallet/Window right just in the nick of time and caused an undeserved chase extension.
Also from your post history, I see you've complained about wesker being "same old same old" , and "the game is stale seeing BBQ and ruin 5/5 times" if you see a problem with repetition on one side , hopefuly you can see a problem with survivors bringing MFT+Resi with Hope/Adren/WOO sprinked in every trial.
Just asking (I seriously question the correct ammount) How many loops of that size exist with those conditions? And how many pallets are almost unplayable? Because in that case look at the opposite as well. Also scenarios exist where other killers fair better against different things too. And to the clip: a 99'd SB wouldve done the same.
And a comment to you looking at my post history: Ruin one was before it got reworked and BBQ gave 100% bp bonus for free so constant use and too much benefit for nothing, and I stay firm on the Wesker topic of him being overplayed, overloaded, and bugged via hitboxes, well the overplayed part until the last patch when my games consisted of 60-80% of them playing against Wesker. But nice try trying to look at my post history and making me look bad.
@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498245#Comment_3498245
I played Trapper on GoJ. It doesn't matter if I trap shack because every tile is extremely safe. And again, that's just one example. If I outplay a survivor on an M1 killer, there's no reason I shouldn't get a hit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498202#Comment_3498202
"just dedicate 25% of your build to counter one perk that survivors may or may not bring, that you need to farm stacks off your obsession for, that you lose a stack every time you M1" yeah, sounds just like the days of old COH where people were saying "just bring shattered hope bro!"
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498440#Comment_3498440
Survivors are stronger without perks than most killers are with full gen regression perks. Survivors don't NEED perks to be good, they are strong basekit. Most of the killers in the roster (save for like 2-3) NEED perks to stand a chance in most trials. MFT isn't just "good", it's actually broken. You wanna see good perks? Look at Nic Cage's perks. All of them give very strong effects, and yet all of them are balanced. Killer perks are rancid? Which exactly? COB+OC+Eruption got nerfed into the ground, PR got nerfed, it seems like every good gen reg perk is getting gutted.
I would argue MFT is even worse than old DH. Old DH was a one time thing that guaranteed a window/pallet. MFT is the same thing, except to a lesser extent but consistent any time you're injured and unexhausted. Either killer dedicates part of their build to inflict exhaustion (hoping that someone is running MFT), or they don't and they get slapped with MFT constantly.
Survivors should never get perks that allow them to extend chases as egregiously as 6.1.0 DH, or now MFT, because survivors can already stretch chases long enough for all gens to get done, and maps are safe enough to predrop every pallet and finish all gens twice over.
SH:PR already got nerfed, it's now 4x25%, and it gives no value if you use a white hook when there's no gen with progress. DMS is fine, just get off the gen as someone is being hooked (of course, it's bugged now with early hook effects). NOED has already been nerfed into the ground; NOED is literally the killer version of Adrenaline, an endgame second chance perk. Eruption only takes effect when someone goes down, at most, the 10s aura read gives the killer an idea of whether the survivor is committing or leaving. The 10% is barely enough to make up for the killer getting the pick up and making a hook. Jolt is 8%, might wanna double check those numbers, chief. Pop gives 30% of the TOTAL progress on a gen, and is probably one of the healthiest gen reg perks in a very long time.
But while we're on the subject of overpowered perks that need to be toned down, let's talk about survivors getting busted Endurance perks back to back. First, we get MFT, then we get Buckle Up rework. How many more ways to get Endurance do we need? At this point, it's so difficult to even tell what the perk was. Did the survivor have OTR? Was it MFT? Was it Buckle Up? A Styptic? DH? Mettle of Man?
This isn't gonna turn into a us vs them conversation. We're here to discuss MFT and that's all we're gonna discuss. I'm a killer main but I was actually one of the biggest proponents of nerfing old Eruption. I was also hugely in favor of nerfing old PR because it was oppressive in the same way that old Pop was. I'm also one of the biggest proponents of anti-facecamp measure now; I think they disproportionately affect solo Q and help SWF, and it's a very low effort way to build up pressure as killer. But now, MFT is broken, and we need to fix that.
Okay then let's stay on topic:
Made For This is 1-3% Haste when Injured And 10 sec Endurance when healing a state (just have to heal to change the state not a full health state), can't be used while exhausted, but won't cause exhaustion, correct? As far as the wiki is correct, yes.
2 Things with the perk:
- 1 you have to be injured to make any use of it, so any form of exposed basicly breaks the perk any time you hit a healthy survivor and exposed perks are most of the times fair.
- Neither of the perks effects are useable while exhausted by any means, so you have a ton of ways to counter it the most relevant one being fearmonger or if the survivor is not the sharpest sometimes they counter themselves. Main point is it's a sort of risk reward perk, that you don't get an exhaustion perk with short term benefits but get a long term small boost.
Besides the perk you mention endurance from other perks. Why are they exactly hard to track of?
OTR: if you wanna make use of the 80 seconds renders you useless for your team for that duration, but people like to tunnel so that warrants the perks existance there,
BT: does this too but for 10 seconds with the speed boost lasting +10 seconds too so those are anti tunnel perks, which lose effect after literally touching anything that's objective related (gens/heals/totems etc.).
DH: needs to be timed and 0,5 second window is not the easiest to hit especially when the killer huddles up to you, and the perk can be used 2 times/survivor/game, and it gives a 40 sec exhaustion.
Styptic is 5 sec and eats a med-kit, so thats a variable.
Buckle up/MFT/Soul Guard/WGLF are the only ones that can confuse you, depending on who you hit but it's not impossible to comprehend it.
Also only 1 endurance can protect you at a time basicly besides Mettle of Man which overwrites a hit. But if you still look at it all of them have a condition still :)
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@madoniflicks said:
I am sick of seeing 1-3 MFT comboed with hope every games and read people that claim it's a fine perk.
It reminds me of the conversation on old DH.
hope a nerf won't take years this time around...
Funny... Imagine complaining about a good survivor perk after a long time while killer perks are still somewhat rancid to this day. The fun part is that you also wanna say that hope is overpowered with it. It is a fine combination for it's price in my opinion, since no matter how you look at it that's half of a survivors loadout, which only comes to fruition in the end game basicly.
While killers can run perks that almost exclusively circumvent the survivors from getting that far. Look at all the gen regression perks that the killers have at their disposal and yet for some reason it is still enough to run 1-2 of those to cause pain.
Also killers who are actually good will not complain about this perk/combination because they will know that the survivor who runs this makes a mistake is dead and can capitalize on this.
Now to give you a point about the old DH. It is fair that it was nerfed because it was a free time waster one way or another. Or the time when survivors effectively bugged out with DH or negated a hit after it should've taken effect. This time MFT is not that bad,
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3497441#Comment_3497441
It's nowhere near as strong in practice as some are claiming it is in theory. Practice never works out the same as theory, survivors need to loop flawlessly and consistently throughout a chase to get the value out of MFT, while a Sprint Burst or a Dead Hard pays off in the second you use it. One wrong read, or one second caught on a corner of a loop, loses the chase.
3% Haste theoretically extends a chase by 20%. But for one thing, it entirely depends on the length of the chase as to whether or not that is impactful. 20% extra on a 5 second chase is 1 second, and it's highly situational as to whether or not that gives the survivors anything of value. But if that chase lasts for more than 15 seconds, then killer gets Bloodlust, which is 5% and outclasses MFT altogether. This serves as a hard cap on the value MFT can give you. You might get one extra loop out of it, which is essentially what every exhaustion perk has the potential to do when used correctly.
And that's the key point, using MFT correctly has a high skill floor, on par with being able to use a 99'd Sprint Burst mid-chase, and the survivors who can pull that off are going to out loop you anyway.
Like I said, MFT has given me no trouble at all. And on the odd times it has, I've been very clearly outplayed by the survivor, it's given them an edge, but it hasn't been the sole reason they've won.
MFT is no better than any Exhaustion perk, and survivors are allowed to get a half-decent perk every now and then. Shaking up the meta is a good thing.
2% haste would be extending a chase by around 13.3%, so you'd need to be chasing at least 8 seconds to gain any value out of it, while 1% extends a chase by a potential 6.6%, this is now requiring a chase of around 15 seconds to give the survivor one extra second, and 15 seconds is where Bloodlust kicks in. So effectively, 1% Haste is giving the survivor absolutely nothing.
As stated in here if you are bad it may save you like once or twice a game, but if you are good and consistent it wil look like that you are abusing the perk, but otherwise you shouldn't crack the whip over survivors because you will sound biased. Survivors nowadays don't get nearly as many chances with perks being good as killers.
But if the maps, tiles and buildings would be the way they used to be (infinites, loops that favor survivors horribly well) this complaint would be acceptable. But if I look at things the way you do but as a survivor main, then the following killer perks should be nerfed:
- SH: PR (just because 4*15% is too much)
- DMS (because why can it block any gens and why can it combo with PR)
- NOED (because it's boring and such an easy perk that gives almost a free kill or 2 if used at least decently)
- Eruption (because you still scream and 10 sec of aura read is too much)
- Jolt (because 10% for a down is too much)
- PGTW (Because 7-11*30% is too much)
yadi-yadi-yada... This list could go on for quite a while if I would be biased, but since I know that killer perks need to make a more significant impact that most survivor perks I'm not complaining half as much as some of the killers I met. Also besides killer perks, can we do a hot take on most killers basically spamming powers with close to 0 or very little cooldown just if we are at the point of complaining...
(Respect to the following killer tho: Huntress, because she actually needs way more mechanical skill because of aiming and punishability and Trapper for the limitation in resources)
I don't know why are the killers throwing tantrums constantly about survivor perks one at a time basically and getting stronger and stronger perks constantly yet survivors getting nerfs after nerfs but still having 2-3 good/strong perks is a sin. This reminds me more of a CoH state because it came in strong, all the killers started runing sloppy, and other heal slow down perks, the perk got nerfed to 50% self-heal speed, was still too strong, then along side with the second wave of nerfs making it a conditional empathy+botany*2 now its not nearly as good ever since the med-kits got gutted alongside the perks.
And let's take a word on killer add-ons:
- They offer various effects (not a bad thing, but the capability of stacking more than 3 effects on survivors by a single instance of killer power is just immense. , [Blindness, Exhaustion, Exposed, Hindered, Mangled, Hemorrhage])
- Some are overtuned for their rarity (Adrenaline Vial for Blight or Demo's Black Heart or Spirit's 2in1 add-ons buffing Haunt Duration/Speed/Recharge Rate [Finally got nerfed, Thank God] or Clown's speed slow add-ons)
- Some are completly useless, and/or irrelevant (multiple of Nurse's add-ons which have a better counterpart/are too niche/uncomfortable to use)
So if survivors get the treatment of "Let's make their items worse", then I think it's time for killers.
And I can already imagine that a lof of people seeing/commenting to my comment will be like: "You are the problem.", "Just another salty survivor main.". Call me what you want but it won't make me less entitled to my opinion. And keep in mind that the game can be just as dead without survivors as it can be without killers. So if survivors leave the game because it becomes far too killer sided killers can't play it either.
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@Wylrin said:
Note that the listed options aren't necessarily what a killer addon should be exclusively. But what is your preferred addon purpose for killers, if you find multiple functions appealing?
I mean all 3 should exist in my opinion with greys/yellows being augments to base values, greens should fix some weaknesses/in some cases give new playstyle options (but not huge changes) and purples/pinks should almost entirely change the fundementals of a character (but keep the core somewhat similar)
Like how the pig has the option to:
- augment her base kit (crouch & trap timers)
- give her power huge buffs (exhaustion on trap)
- and give her new playstyle (injury & deep wound add-on if you wanna make survivors miss skill checks)
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Would find a lot of things enjoyable to be honest, from back in the day the more horror like parts peaked my intrest and made the game fun. Like playing a "restless hunter" trying to take out their prey and with its essence serving its mysterious, higher power the entity or get excited by being chased by a scary yet humanlike "monster".
Then when I grasped the actually more competetive side of the game, looping and chasing became more fun, strategies on how to prolong my life or ending someone's sooner if I rarely played killer.
After that survive with friends came along and playing with friends refreshed and made it the more enjoyable, especially those moments where we risked everything for one another.
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But now. It is sad to see the game devolve into a "Who am I gonna get harassed by today?" Either I play survivor and get tunneled, slugged, facecamped, left on the hook until i switch phase or die, get left beind etc. Or if I get a group of friends who abuse killers and mechanics then that's not enjoyable. Also seeing killers getting overloaded, nigh "having no weakness" kits as a survivor main is just another nail in the coffin, and striking survivors constantly with nerfs is not helping either, first it was perks, then items, then generators, pallets, windows, add-ons etc. Most of the things getting nerfed are more survivor sided and killers have too much of an upper hand.
Effectively in my opinion the game needs a whole facial reconstruction at this point because the game in it's terms is falling apart exponentially. Killers with more complex, more effective perks, powers, add-ons and game mechanics are gonna keep coming (would be understandable if not everything would give a person a mild migraine) and survivors only got a single base-kit change which affected them in a positive way. While killers keep coming out and they have 5 parts to their kit, and survivors have to spend sometimes a lot of time to get a fighting chance, while the killer is not punished for their actions most of the times (because spamming most powers with no or very little cooldown is fun I suppose) it's just not the same. It's not healthy for a game like this to have a side constantly hammered while the other gets paperweights added only. This is just not the game I fell in love with on release.
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@Unam said:
At this point, it is hard to argue against the fact that BHVR obviously has two standards when balancing the Game on Survivor and Killer Side.
But I would like to know where this comes from?
I get it. Getting tunneled out of the Game, facecamped on hook, or being incapacitated for 25 sec. is indeed not fun gameplay. Losing in general is no fun gameplay.
But why is the attention to "no fun gameplay" so high on survivor side? I mean like, getting pallet stunned and blinded or getting blinded while vaulting is "no fun gameplay" and has no counterplay. Yet it still is accepted as part of the game.
Getting Blast mined at 3 gens in succession is 12 sec of not being able to move, do or even see things, without counterplay is no fun in any way... Yet still accepted.
Memorizing every hookstate of survivors with the same skin, getting bodyblocked or hook saboed with a purple toolbox has also no counterplay and is "no fun gameplay" to the killer. Yet, aswell, still accepted.
Is it the fact, that BHVR really tries to make every survivor feel like they are winning even when they are (obviously) not good at the game? And why is that? and why is this standard not the same on Killerside?
Fun fact (Survivor main) everything you said literally has some form of counterplay if you must know. But in my opinion I only have 2 problems with this game: The consitent "you got hooked first you must die" (or more commonly 'tunneling') which is frustrating for 3 reasons: you are effectively being harrased (or that's how it feels like if undeserved), won't yield you anything after a certain point, is just monotone (spelling?). My other main problem is how some things are unpunishable for most scenarios. Like the Killer basically has no negative effect besides the 2 forms of blindness that can be afflicted by the survivors. Or how strong a couple loops can be (mindblowingly if chained correctly). Now, back to the original topic. If you don't wanna use direct counterplay to certain elements of the game, then don't. It makes the game actually more fun knowing you "fought for your food". But outside of a couple (these recent couple of days it's more prominent tho...) scenarios where survivors abuse the living hell out of you, or killers tunnel their brains out (in solo queue not even getting punished because randoms or overloaded perks/kits) you could just ignore those elements.
*Side note: Also you are always rolling a dice in a lot of territories in this game too. (like rank (which seriously doesn't freaking matter anyhow), perks, items, the opponent's skill level, rng of the games, etc.) So I can 99% guarantee you if not under special conditions 2 games basically won't be the same.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2031241#Comment_2031241
tbf, perks haven't affected powers in a while. I miss the days of third seal legion.
Same brother, same... But with machine gun huntress...
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@YourNightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2031034#Comment_2031034
This western world society is pure madness.
Ppl are now fine testing things for companies without being paid.
Do you know htat beta tester was a job some years ago ?
And now you beta test things for the developers while it's you who have paid the game lol...
When the game is free, you can't say much and accept, but you have bought Dbd...
Just so you understand my dear I'm going to enlighten you.
Beta tester was a job for games, programmes BEFORE release or if something huge was developed which changed the games major features/trail of the game. Feature testing however is suited for that kind of environment for a reason. Also, be glad that they allow everyone to get a feel of the new features so they don't walk into a wall face first. Because some games (League of Legends is the one I know for this) restrict for people to test widely and they choose some that they allow to test it for reasons. So get your stuff right. By the way not to mention that you are just a single person ranting about stuff but not coming from an objective angle.
Are they trying to fix some things? --> Yes. Are they great at it? --> Varied. Is the game balanced? Ehh arguable.
So they are already doing more than you up to this day. Added bonus: they threw together a very fun game (gets pretty stale over a longer period of time ngl) and you are ranting about you being a fool about giving your consent for something you didn't know about and now you wanna just wanna throw your tantrums to the public at the hopes of somebody agreeing with you and ranting over BHVR with you. Pack your bags baby and do better if you could, thanks.
Also to anyone who plays the PTB and rants just keep in mind that's the place for new things (including minor and major stuff at the same time).Okay I understand that BHVR throws random stuff at us from time to time but if I can pick on one thing it's the MMR being a huge pile and not killer based (separated for killers [performing well with trapper purple/red ranks, underperforming with spirit white/yellows] not that certain killers get certain mmr survs) (yeah red ranks against a green ranked Plague thank you very much)
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Nope. Only pallet breaks, wall breaks and generator damages as far as I know it.
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@Pilot said:
I mean, this applies for both sides.
Killers use their best perks
Survivors use their best perks
As much as I hate it, I'm looking at you Unbreakable...
It's only fair to try your hardest and use the best tools at your disposal.
Also, because people can use whatever the hell they want.
Understandable but this makes the game stale as heck seeing bbq & ruin 5/5 times.
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@Chchchcheryl said:
People use something good and they want another taste. It's like a drug. Chasing the dragon as they say.
Now for some people that drug is a meta perk like DS, UB, DH, NOED etc.
For others its Autodicdic and For The People, Beast of Prey (no judge I've been running it on Wraith and it's kinda hot, bloodlusting near a gen then ambushing them is great, seeing as they either expect a TR or the bell) and Gearhead (like myself).
I think it comes down to the fact a lot of people want to win because it makes them feel good so they bring whatever gets them closest to that. Other people find fun in messing and doing silly things, or just not taking the game seriously like you'll get a million quid if you win the next match.
IMO most of this community is more toxic than swallowing a gram of fine uranium powder. Everyone is sweating balls when the rank is meaningless, and it's so god damn pointless to go up to rank 1 for just more toxicity and playing for dailies against a pink mori basement camping myers with insidious and a 99-d t3. And to be honest these perks not just define meta but the killers that can actually win in the meta (generic not player-to-player). I mean ranks are so restrictive in killers so you have to throw out the killers you are not 100% efficient with in red ranks.
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@linancy said:
After at least 6 games with the new matchmaking system, i played against high winrate killers such as Freddy, Spirit and nurse.
Some were red and green ranks.
I'm purple rank survivor and the matchmaking with other survivors are not bad. not a big difference, just the killers are repeating themselves.
They're always Spirit, nurse or freddy with the most annoying perks.
The game become annoying as well and way more harder.
I don't like this at all.
Yeah. By SBM I think they meant Meta killers. To be honest they should gather WAAAYYY more data from matches (winrates for each killer you played, matches that you played for each killer and win% etc.) so they can narrow down the spectrum. Also if you are picking up a new killer or playing as one while you haven't played with them you shouldn't get green-red ranks from the get go. Especially if you want to pick up someone like the nurse. If they really wanna make SBM a thing they should discard the ranking system in the whole picture and rely on these:
Winrate (how many times a survivor escaped or how well are you performing with said killer)
K/T (constant 4 Kills/Trial should result in you getting better survivors and overall a bigger challenge)
Some separation (Killers should be somewhat categorized: Chase based, Power based, Combined this is how heavily their performance is increased by using their power or how efficient said power for the killer: Like Huntress is mostly power based but sometimes relies on chases so she is either power based or combined, Nurse, Power based (obviously), Spirit same, Clown he is combined because his power helps him in chases but he is just still running after you, Wraith & Trapper are chase based because they are mostly running after you if you don't play into their hands)
So if they ever dream of making SBM possible then they shouldn't just throw specific killers against specific ranks because that won't change a single thing. Instead they should collect more data and try to optimize based on that data stack (okay may be too hard to implement just in a hot minute but still should be considered at rank reset.
P.S.: Add rank rewards, if you wanna implement this throw EVERYONE back to rank 20 every season and base matchmaking on this strategy and have nothing to do with ranks.