WesCravenFan
WesCravenFan
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319274#Comment_3319274
Being that teammate who hides every time they hear terror radius means the killer ends up chasing your teammates more. This means they accumulate hook states faster while you're quivering in the corner.
Hiding can have its uses depending on the situation and distribution of hook states, but if you're on first hook you should be aiming to be chased around mid game at least. Before everyone else is on death hook.
Circling a tile to dodge the killer and getting back on my gen isn't "quivering in the corner".
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319433#Comment_3319433
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4V2DACDIHOVY/image-2023-01-15-044308304.png
New OR Different From Your Own...
I.E. I use to hate certain Killers and Perks in DBD, but I kept an open mind and nowadays I actually really like them since I took the time to consider things and give them a chance.
I considered the idea.
After consideration.... still boring.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319431#Comment_3319431
This helps ofcourse if you play survivor too but even then it's not completely gone
If you know the ideal way of running a tile you can still catch even good survivors ofguard, things like going through the pallet side of shack after they vault the window. Usually a bad move to lose distance but in this case they usually don't expect it and will try to run the tile optimally running into you.
Not to mention that a lot of mindgames just are 50/50 no matter how good you are.
It's certainly not impossible to score some hits against even good survivors, you are playing against humans. By definition they can't be perfect
No, not perfect. But it's still lost its excitement and fun factor for me. There's far more variables in the hide and seek aspect of the game for me than running shack over and over until the window locks, then running to the next tile for the umpteenth billion time.
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So, it's the charm on the hook that breaks your immersion, and not the dwight wearing an elf skirt in the bike helmet?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319346#Comment_3319346
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GMXGWWZF8YZG/image-2023-01-15-034158543.png
I never said "you said they couldnt enjoy it", Im saying to be more open minded since people enjoy different things regardless if you enjoy it or not. You clearly mock the idea of looping and how people enjoy it, so Im just saying that people enjoy it regardless if you enjoy it or not, and that you could be respectful of the opinions of others.
That's it.
Open mindednness means "open to new ideas". Not "I've seen this idea and I think it sucks".
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318584#Comment_3318584
Cause you're only thinking of looping at it's most basic form of running around a low obstacle in circles untill you drop the pallet and move on
When people talk about how looping is fun they are talking about high wall structures that you can mindgame and there is a gameplay element to them.
Say what you want but making a survivor run into you by tricky positioning never gets old
Once you start facing survivors that perfectly know how to run these static tiles, the excitement of that is pretty much gone.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319266#Comment_3319266
So you can't think of one either haha
Oh, I can think of one right now: Evil Dead The Game.
Your argument is still a logical fallacy called "Moving the Goalposts". Feel free to google it.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319308#Comment_3319308
"And if people just enjoy being chased, that is their personal preference", I said it for a reason. Everyone has their own definition of fun. Some people enjoy being chased, some people enjoy interacting the different players (including the Killer), some people dont. Im saying to be open minded since everyone is different, they have different playstyles and approaches to things.
You might enjoy doing generators and hiding (not saying you specifically, but "you" as being a broad term for the sake of example), but others might not enjoy that, but DBD leaves a lot of room for people to play in different ways so I feel like you have to be respectful of other's opinions, etc.
When did I say they couldn't?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319275#Comment_3319275
People want to get chased because maybe they want to improve in that aspect of the game.
And if people just enjoy being chased, that is their personal preference, everyone is going to have a different opinion on literally anything so you have to be open-minded.
No, people want to get chased because they are bored. They don't want to do gens or hide. Looping is the whole game to them. The vast majority of players that do this to admit to such.
What does open mindedness have to do with anything?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318584#Comment_3318584
I mean, what do you expect Survivors to do when they get found? Just sit there and do nothing, Idk, sit in the timeout chair?
Looping should be the CONSEQUENCE of getting found. The "Oh, crap?!" moment.
Today players bright flashlights, click at the killer, teabag them in their neon green cosmetics, and WANT to get chased.
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@LooeDbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318584#Comment_3318584
what do you find fun then?
The rush of the terror radius while I try and hide and hope he doesn't find me.
The developers made this a game of hide and seek. They STILL call it that, to this very day. But the community decided "Nah, we playing NASCAR now."
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The man counters BASIC MOVEMENT. That is absolutely insane. Killers already have a speed increase over Survivors, as they should, but Blight turns it up to 11 with tokens that self-regenerate. Other mobility killers are penalized in some way for this. Wraith has to cloak and decloak and lose time doing so. Teleporters are limited to the targets of their teleports.
Blight is just an overpowered lawnmower. The only thing that tops him is a pallet, and McClean decided to let him break pallets while rushing, too!
And then there is a hug tech, so you can't even try to dodge around an object. He's just the most broken killer in the game.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318816#Comment_3318816
... What game forces you to spectate and give you dc if you leave? Not trying to be a dick I honestly can't think of one
Moving the goalposts.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318789#Comment_3318789
No, thats not the real reason. That was a symptom behind the real reason. Try again and be honest this time.
That is the honest FACTUAL answer. Anything else I give would be pontificating.
My personal experience with Dead Hard was it was causing too much of an imbalance in chase time compared to other exhaustion perks. Dead Hard created way more chase time than Lithe, Balanced Landing, etc. And is an example of why a perk like that should never be able to be used AT WILL.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318511#Comment_3318511
You forgot to mention that the Bubba in your example must be bot enough to:
- Allow the unhook to ever happen, thing that he can deny altogether;
- Let the unhook be a safe one on top of that. Again, something that he can deny given his ability to double hit through the unhook endurance and speed boost.
Just bringing X perk to band-aid design flaw Y is essentially a non-suggestion. Neither killers nor survivors should be forced to do it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318095#Comment_3318095
Congratulations, you just ignored all the other differences between Billy and Bubba.
None that matter. And the ones that do would still put Billy ahead of Bubba.
The whole point of Bubba is he has the ability to threaten a whole area immediately around his person, but he lacks mobility.
The whole point of Billy is a singular directional attack, but at high speed.
Take away the speed and Bubba is Billy with a sprained ankle that doesn't struggle to curve.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318789#Comment_3318789
It was 20% pick at low mmr, 40% pick at mid-mmr, and 75% pick at high mmr (BHVRs stats)
Averaged. I specifically said at its peak.
Which even averaged is still insane.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318791#Comment_3318791
Still don't understand the logic, getting shot in the head in a fps means I'm dead and can go about my business. Getting slugged means I'm laying g the ground not doing anything. It would be like a 4 minutes of camera stuck on your dead body before you were allowed to respawn or find a new game.. that's would be boring as hell .
Can I at least get a suicide button ?
Have you seriously never played an FPS where once you die you get to do nothing more than spectate and wait for your teammates to finish?
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@Blueberry said:
I think that stems from a bigger issue which is tons of bad/useless addons and offerings. A lot of them need improvements.
STARS Combat Manual comes to mind.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
Honestly, just here to say there is no point trying to have a reasonable conversation with WesCravenFan. I’ve learned there is no point and it is a waste of time. Life is too short.
What is unreasonable is thinking being on the floor because you lost somehow needs to be entertaining. It's like listening to someone complain that there's no fun factor in being shot in the head during a first person shooter.
For a wait time that is realistically two minutes.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318599#Comment_3318599
Why did dead hard need a fix?
Because it had an over 86% pick rate during its peak.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318777#Comment_3318777
Dude ######### adding sex to DBD, add a Twister slug mini-game
My God, do not give them ideas. This is a pathway to shirtless Myers that cannot be undone.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318633#Comment_3318633
"It's not fun for the other side" cannot be a game design argument.
It absolutely can, and I hate this misconception.
Most people believe it because most of the egregious examples that prove that this is a valid design argument never see the light of day, or get trimmed relatively quickly. But you can absolutely create something utterly balanced, and yet necessitate its removal because it's just damn unhealthy for the game.
Misconception?
The misconception here is that people think it should be fun to be lying on the ground. I'm sorry you guys can't play Twister while on the floor.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318633#Comment_3318633
Bad argument.
I dont mind losing. But I mind lying around for 4 minutes, because the Killer really needs to push their ego for a 4K, when they won anyway. A 3K with potential Hatch Escape is still a win. (Especially since the Killer has the advantage in finding the Hatch)
So when I am losing, I dont mind, but I would like to move on and go into the next game.
This just an argument of impatience. It's 4 minutes, assuming you never spent any time whatsoever on the ground at all the entire game AND the killer takes that long to hook the last survivor.
VERY few people slugged for the 4K reach the full four minutes.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318601#Comment_3318601
Marketing department.
Don't make the art team look bad they are awesome
Okay, that's fair.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318599#Comment_3318599
Slugging for 4k is a way to bypass a game mechanic (the hatch) by forcefully extending an unwinnable situation for the last survivor and essentially playing hide and seek with them for 4 minutes in the hopes of securing a meaningless 4k. It's pathetic, and boring to play against.
Lots of mechanics exist to by pass another mechanic. That's not a pejorative.
And being boring to play against indicates you get to tell other people how the can play.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318688#Comment_3318688
I don't really think either of us are going to find a resolution here.
Well, what kind of dynamic gameplay do you think DYING survivors are entitled to? Or would you rather they just die instantly? I'm trying to see here what you think SHOULD happen.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318620#Comment_3318620
I never said or implied any of that at all. I just stuck to "art department" and "coding department" because those were what you mentioned, and between those two tinkering with the store inside the game should be outside the art department's responsibilities.
BHVR spent time and money changing pre-existing cosmetics in the store to now only be available for a limited time each year. It doesn't matter what specific person or people BHVR used, time and money (which are finite resources) were expended to make these changes. There are a lot of other features, including cosmetic and store-related features, customers actually want. BHVR could've left well enough alone and put their resources into something else. This was a waste of time and effort, and all it's done is made a lot of their customers unhappy and the other customers are just indifferent. There's no increase in customer satisfaction or user experience with this change, and it would have been less effort on BHVR's part to just leave the cosmetics in the store.
The original comment you replied to was still correct: BHVR should've focused on something else. (There's no need to focus on their examples of balance and bug fixes, no one wants to list everything else BHVR could've focused on, those are just the first two every person who plays DbD thinks of.) You made it about departments, but in the end it all comes down to resources: time, money, people. This change wasn't made in a bubble.
You really think that "time and money" was not one dude in the span of a single afternoon?
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315002#Comment_3315002
Here. Let's removed exhaustion from Headon. Let's make it so the most viable strategy is to have two survivors just chain stun the killer at two lockers while the other two get the gens done. It'll be the most viable and simply strategy in the game. Why not?
Oh, right, because one person doesn't get to play the game then. That's why not. I know most killers can't see beyond their own sweaty need to 4k every single game without effort, but try thinking about someone other than yourself for once in your life.
Terrible example. The Head On thing does not advance the win condition. Your comparison is flawed from the onset.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318633#Comment_3318633
No, it sucks because I literally can't do anything. And it already is used for game design, that's pretty much why locker saves were removed. Were they strong? No. Was that team gonna win? Probably not. But it wasn't fun to face so it got removed.
I am literally better off going to make a sandwich while waiting to bleed out
Locker saves were removed because they were literally uncounterable if you didn't have Lightborn.
As for the ground, you are not supposed to be able to do anything. You are in the DYING state.
You think you should be allowed to loop and do gens while in the DYING state?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318619#Comment_3318619
Probably because there's still a game to be played in one example.
For the Survivor who is slugged, they have zero agency. They can't do anything, they're stuck unless someone picks them up.
When Survivors go back for the 4-man out, everybody gets to participate. The Killer has an opportunity to get more than a 1K and the Survivors have the opportunity to get a 4 man out. Everybody has agency and the ability to affect the outcome of the match.
It's not that they aren't allowed to try for the 4K, it's just that it's dreadfully boring for the poor ######### slugged on the ground and clearly, BHVR agrees in some sense.
"It's not fun for the other side" cannot be a game design argument.
It sucks because you are losing. Very few games are fun to lose.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318601#Comment_3318601
The art department didn't design the limited-time-ness into the outfits. That's not art, those outfits leaving the store is a feature. The coding department had to add that new feature into the game. That actually required more work than just leaving the cosmetics in the game store like normal.
That doesn't mean the guy that goes in and tinkers with the store is the same guy decoding bug fixes.
I swear, people think video game companies have like 1 hundred employees that all have the exact same job, and they just assign them wherever.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318604#Comment_3318604
I'm sorry I don't understand? Even in your scenario both the killer and survivor are contributing. Killer fighting of the 3 and survivors getting the hook. In a slug for 4k I'm just laying there, or at best slowly crawling in a direction I can't effect the game at all so it's boring .
A Killer slugs because he doesn't want a 3 kill. He wants a 4 kill. So he wants to finish the game by going back.
A SWF goes back because he doesn't want a 3 escape. He wants a 4 escape. He wants to finish the game by going back.
Why is it okay for Survivors to not take the full win but bad when Killers do it?
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318599#Comment_3318599
because it's boring sitting on the ground for 4 minutes? It's incredibly obnoxious because you've already won the game if you're in a position to slug for the 4K. At least let the slugged person give up after they've been slugged for a certain amount of time. The obsession with the 4K is weird and wastes everyone's time.
So if you have three people near the open exit gates and one dude across the map hooked, you always just leave right?
You never go back for that person for the 4 man out?
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@dreamsy10 said:
Yet again they do this extra non sense when no one was asking.. instead of focusing on more important things such as game balance and bugs. Gj.
Here we see player #546433478 that does not understand the difference between the art department and the coding department.
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Why does this need a fix?
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318591#Comment_3318591
Except Chain Hunt filling up forces the survivors to interact with the killer. And yes, doing gens means you don’t interact with the killer, but so is hiding. Which is what the game was supposed to be before everyone made it about chasing.
All I’m asking for is to make tombstone be able to either be harder to get or make it so it has some kind of stipulation before he can kill you like PH or Sadako. Cause with the way it is right now, all he has to do is just get into a chase with you and pop tier 3 and you die. It’s not fun for either side
Chain hunt does not require you to interact with the killer. At all. I can and have walked over to a totally unpatrolled box not even in a terror radius, solved it, and got right back on my gen.
Tombstone doesn't need a change. You bring up Sadako, where it is basically impossible to kill unless you spend 30 minutes doing it and refusing to hook, and Pyramidhead, whose ability to kill does nothing but save himself one 8 second walk to a hook.
Also, it is totally fun for Myers. Not sure about this not fun for either side stuff.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318577#Comment_3318577
Except I never said I was bored or want to be chased? I want him to interact with me, not stare at me from 40 meters away and gain stalk as I can barely see him. So many killers interact with survivors, why is it that his best add on makes it so he doesn’t need to interact with people?
I’m not playing a game as Michael. I’m watching survivors do their objective until I hit tier 2 then I watch them run away. Please explain to me on how that’s interacting with them. Especially when you have killers like Trapper, Billy, Hag, Huntress, Doc, Freddy, Pig, Plague, Oni, Trickster, Nemesis, Cenobite, Artist, Sadako, Dredge, Wesker and Knight.
And that final point you made is a lose lose situation if I answer it. It’s a trap to lure me into a scenario in which you’ll gain the upper hand. We aren’t talking about survivors doing gens, we’re talking how Tombstone is something where Michael doesn’t have to interact with the survivor in any meaningful way in order to kill the survivor
It's pointing out a double standard. You think that Myers stalking isn't interacting and that's bad, but gens are literally done through noninteraction. But the Myers example is bad?
And is a game mechanic that LITERALLY requires you to find Survivors NOT interacting? This isn't like the chain hunt filling up all by itself.
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Well, he does go CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK.
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@LooeDbD said:
I noticed as killer now survivors don't loop, they just camp pallets and hold W, is this a better strat than looping?
its just boring for both sides, looping and being looped was really only the fun part of the game IMO
Looping is the single worst part of the game for me. I have no idea how people can not only claim it is fun, but somehow "the best part".
Huh?!
Do you love NASCAR as well with all those left turns?
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How is Ruin annoying with an AFK killer? You are not getting chased off gens. It's doing nothing.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318564#Comment_3318564
Not always, cause he can just stalk someone from the top of DDS and no one will notice and then he hits tier two and people finally notice, now he’s already a quarter of the way to tier 3 which isn’t really interacting because he’s just staring at you from far away
He has to find a survivor and activate an ability that requires their presence. That's interacting.
What YOU want is to be able to drop pallets, vault windows, and other things because you are bored.
It is more interactive than Survivors, who literally do not interact with killers by doing their primary objective of working on generators. Imagine if we made some weird rule that generators cannot pop unless a Killer is swinging at you within terror radius to get the last 1%.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318520#Comment_3318520
It’s not the fact that I don’t feel “invincible” while healthy. I play injured half my games anyways. The thing is is that he can get a free kill on someone without even interacting with them, that’s the main issue. He doesn’t have to interact with someone at all and then he can just kill them outright without even having a chase with that person. Or if he does chase, it isn’t for a long time
Again, not free. He has to do an enormous amount of stalking. Which is interacting. You may be blind and not see it, but it is still him engaging with the Survivor.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318011#Comment_3318011
Well you need good first chase that's all. Wasn't average first chase like 40s so let's assume you perform at least that so usually only one gen pops when survivors work it together. Then it's 120s for them to do 4 gens. Usually at least one comes to check if bubba is camping so that is less times on gens. Once that camped survivor dies it's usually 1 gen left which is soon to be done but that should be enough to get someone down and hooked. 3vs1 is lot easier to turn to your advantage so once you have one survivor on hook and last gen pops then and you can go find another and down with noed which usually catch them bit off quard as they expect you to camp. Then it's just finding the last one who usually just leaves at that point.
This entire paragraph both:
A.) Hinges on the team being stupid
and
B.) Acts under the assumption that perk existence is relevant to gameplay balance.
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318037#Comment_3318037
It’s not that I want him to be countered by looping, that’s why I stated I’m fine with his base kit getting buffed cause I know it isn’t as strong as some other’s. But his iri add ons suit unhealthy play styles at times and need to be adjusted. He can just get a free kill by barely interacting with you that it’s not really fair to the survivors
"free" is a buzzword. It means nothing.
I don't consider a free kill game-throwing for 3-5 minutes straight. But go and keep hating the fact there's a killer that doesn't let you feel invincible as long as you are healthy.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318095#Comment_3318095
Nice way to expose that you haven't played Bubba friendo. Does billy have unlimited turning in his chainsaw? Can billy control his chainsaw movement in any direction at any time, letting him moonwalk and mindgame? Does billy have addons that get wallhacks on survivors when charging his chainsaw, or give his saw built in Franklin's, or recharge his power to max like alchemist ring when he hits someone? He doesn't need multidowns.
"Nice way to expose that you haven't played Bubba friendo."
Dude, what?
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ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Flashlight bully squads do not need a buff whatsoever.
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@FreakPrince said:
The solution is very simple actually: make the chainsaw sweep stop after the first hit. Done.
Congratulations, you've turned Bubba into a Billy that can't run.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318059#Comment_3318059
SWF is an option and not the default play mode. Most players are solo ques so why punish the majority of players to benefit the few?
Is your argument here seriously "If some people are screwing killers, all of them should be able to!" ?
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@End_of_Slayer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317976#Comment_3317976
I’m not sure how I feel on just making Tombstone harder to activate. If they made it to do he had to interact with the survivor in some way before he can kill them like Sadako and PH, I think it would be healthier.
I agree with the other points though, Hairbow, Dead Rabbit, J. Myers Memorial even Judith’s Journal. They need to be nerfed or altered (and many more)
That is just code for "Make him do something I can counter by looping"
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317882#Comment_3317882
Rarely survivors finish all 5 gens in 2 minutes. Deadlock should prerry much quarantee 2K maybe even 3-4K if you use noed as well.
Yeah, I see this fallacious argument a lot.
You need to count the 2 minutes from the time of the hook, not start of match. I can easily lose gens BEFORE I ever touch that hook with Bubba. If say, 3 gens pop because it was a 90 second chase, then they only have to do 2 gens in those 2 minutes.