Warcrafter4
Warcrafter4
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If a killer isn't strong enough to force survivors to change up their gameplay then there is no point in that killer existing.
Remember the developers said survivors are all the same because the killer is meant to dictate their gameplay.
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Their solution to new survivors being set against veteran killers trying a new killer was to instead send the veteran killer playing someone new to get slaughtered by SWF sweat squads because all killers you have are forced to be near each other MMR wise.
Instead of fixing the issue the developers simply made it the killer's problem and called it a day like they always do...
So there's no real point in bothering with new killers until this is changed but I doubt it ever will be, making the advertised individual killer MMR completely meaningless because its tied one way or another to your top mmr killer anyways.
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From what we know they are another hold M1 mechanic according to their thrill changes(Blessing a totem takes longer aka totems are an M1 mechanic).
They are also made in a way to be (Unwanted)game-play for the killer not for the survivors given that the killer is the one whose forced to deal with them.
Which mind you has been the theme for most of the new mechanics that help survivors such as breakable walls.
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The Clown would be mine:
His power is him throwing a bottle at the survivors...That's it. Even with the yellow bottle it adds so little to him that its entirely uninteresting.
His design is just kinda there. He's one of if not the least physically changed killer in the game even when compared to the trickster.
The clown's horse is more special then he is visually...
So ultimately he's just a fatman who likes figures with nothing else really going for him other then his silly elephant costume. Which mind you is community made and thus disqualified from the developer's design of the clown.
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@indieeden7 said:
I've never understood the consensus that Third Seal is a bad perk, against a team of solos, it can be completely nuts.
That's also why people don't like it:
Its only useful against solos but useless against even a 2 man swf.
We really don't need solo stomping perks given how horrible solo queue already is for most people.
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Mob mentality:
Its very easy to act horrendously against someone when you know you have people who will back you up that and that outnumber the people your acting horrendously towards.
Aka because survivors don't back up the killer post game is encourages other survivors to attack the killer post game and be toxic mid game because they know there will be no consequences from their peers.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Basekit he's probably still the worst, but the fact he now has a free addon slot is huge, just like it was for Wraith. I think a buffed Trapper with those strong addons like Honing Stone, Iri Stone and Bloody Coil is going to be at least better than Pig and Legion.
We don't know if he's even keeping those given that they have already shown that they have completely reworked 2 of his purples.
So its entirely possible that they nerfed ALL of his purples or higher rarity add-ons.
Remember clown despite getting a similar buff also had most of his add-ons heavily nerfed making him on more viable then before.
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Its a clown style rework:
Add a low rarity add-on and nerfed his others add-ons(His purple bag was shown to have been nerfed into the ground).
So much like the clow his viability won't change as they haven't addressed any of his underlying issues.
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I feel like they have been fundamentally made wrong:
The killer already has no time for side objectives even if said objectives is part of their power(Plague).
Meanwhile survivors need a side objective not only to slow the game down but to give them something new to do other then M1.
What we got is a side objective for killer which is the role that doesn't need it, meanwhile having another hold M1 mechanic(Blessing takes time according to the new Thrill of the Hunt) mechanic for survivors.
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@KolbyKolbyKolby said:
Fix gen rush and facecamp?
I find that most times the latter is the leading cause of the former.
The former also causes a lot of the ladder as once the last gen pops the killer has no reason to leave the hooked survivor causing the face camp.
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@Brokenbones said:
Hillbilly mains are probably excited
His addons are rock bottom, so how could they possibly make them worse?
All add-ons with unconditional effects(Such as all overheat effecting add-ons) now make billy's chainsaw only injures instead of putting them into dying.
Speed limiter also now halves your movement speed while using the chainsaw. This makes you have normal movement speed while chainsawing.
Don't underestimate the power of bad ideas!
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I fully expect her to get Billyed:
Double nerfed(Both base kit and add-ons being nerfed into the ground). Aka completely gutted
Then the gutting humiliating the developers like what happened with Billy.
Then they will refuse to ever acknowledge that they screwed up just like with Billy.
Finally they'd wonder why no one trusts them...Again.
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@PIP330 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515025#Comment_2515025
didn't even test it and here we are already complaining lol
"no one will play spirit."
great.
I remember people like you saying the same thing about billy's gutting...
You don't need to put your noise into rotting garbage to know it stinks.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515224#Comment_2515224
Eh, the last part sounds like the issue being Haddonfield, and that's about it. Maybe they could increase the duration for the add-on.
Its still an add-on that makes it so even though you successfully trapped the survivor your own trap can still stun you mid chase.
That is an inherent downside to the add-on as survivors never have a reason to go back to where they just escaped from a trap.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2515189#Comment_2515189
We haven't seen the rest of his add-ons yet. Also, Tension Spring doesn't give Trapper any downsides. I agree Trapper Sack will need to be looked at again.
The Trapper change is what many of us have asked for and we should be grateful that they listened. Keep in mind they also gave us base-kit dark traps in a previous patch.
Think about it like this for the tension spring:
You blocked off a long narrow path with a bear trap.
A Survivor gets trapped in it and you go to down them.
They escape then the trap resets blocking off the path FOR YOU THE TRAPPER!
Aka if you ever use it on maps like haddon it will be an active detriment.
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The Trapper is getting the Clown treatment:
Making a single low rarity add-on baseline that doesn't truly address his issues and nerfing the rest of his add-ons.
I mean both purples they have shown are actively detrimental to the trapper.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
oh yeah they are survivor biased it’s not like they buffed trapper and finally gave him his 2 traps by default and buffed Blood favor third seal and retribution! Wow so biased
They also shown that they have nerfed his bag add-ons into the ground with the trapper sack along with the new spring add-on they shown being actively detrimental in a lot of situations:
Trap blocks off a path a survivors gets trapped and escapes as you come to them and now you got trapped because the trap reset.
So Trapper might actually be WEAKER then before when you look at the fine print.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The killer add-ons change is the most exciting part for me. I really hope they are looking the legion too though, they have some really bad add ons. Like Frank's Mix Tape
Given the flashy but uselessness of the add-ons shown for spirit and trapper...
I fully expect nothing but nerfs to good add-ons and non-buffs(Technically a buff but doesn't actually do anything) to bad ones.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2513185#Comment_2513185
I wouldn't be so condescending in your dismissals. Here's a grand final match where a Pig gets a 3k:
The truth is that people can win against a top tier swf, and it's not only a Nurse or Spirit which can do it. This disproves the thought that top tier killer streamers end up with 1k.
I don't know whether you're uncertain in your own beliefs which is why you respond with "obviously you don't play at high level to understand this", but it comes across as close-minded that people may actually have an alternative opinion originating from their own experience.
But you're attitude needs adjusting. I'll end my correspondance with this topic here.
You mean in the tournament where they'd purposely handicapped(Notice the lack of add-ons for the survivors vs the killer) the survivors to make it remotely fair?
Also 2 of the 3 kills are tamper timer RNG kills...
I don't get what your trying to prove here.
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Given that the timer for a stage is always the same unless camaraderie is in play, there is no reason to hide it as the killer knows the time.
Same goes for the survivor hooks as there's no real reason to hide it as the killer should always know it.
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I'd say a full rework to make his ability better suited for the newer map designs as the new maps cause a lot of issues with his power.
That being said I voted for buffs because the developers can't be trusted to rework him correctly if they can't admit their first rework on him went wrong.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2511943#Comment_2511943
In the past, each Killer used the default rating when you first played them. In theory, this is great. You try a new Killer, you get to practice against easy opponents as you get used to them.
In practice, however, it's a different story. When this was tested in the past, it ended up with incredibly one-sided matches as really good Killers would get paired with new or inexperienced Survivors just because their rating started at the default. This is because most of the skills you need to do well are shared amongst different Killers. Things like time management, how to run certain tiles, zoning, etc. are more or less the same whether you're playing Wraith or Legion.
There are some exceptions, of course. Nurse, like you mentioned, plays completely differently from other Killers. The mindgames you normally use don't transfer over, and there's a mechanical skill involved with nailing your blinks on top of that, though most Killers do not have the same problem.
The shortest way to put it: Starting at default ends up with a lot of unbalanced matches as you gradually climb to the rating you're meant to be at. Starting at the average typically ends up with you in the right place within only a handful of matches. Most skills are transferable between Killers, although there are a few exceptions.
Then why not have an exclusion for killers like Nurse/Huntress/Deathslinger? (Maybe Blight/Billy too?)
Killers with Nontransferable Skills should just have their own separate MMR as well it doesn't matter how good you are with the rest of the cast or with them as the skills from one doesn't effect the other.
I mean the entire point of separate MMRs is so you can play killers with Nontransferable Skills without getting curb-stomped every single game.
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I'd vote:
Reset it to the 2nd test version.
That version seemed like the most fair version they have ever tried because this current version is kinda stupid.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
Some killer players have the mentality that a 4k = balanced game for some reason. If survivors try to win as well then the game is unbalanced. Just look how the other day we had a post here suggesting survivors should start playing perkless, or how we were sitting at an almost 70% kill rate on the last stats and people still cry "omg killer is so hard".
This goes both ways buddy:
survivors who think they lost if a single survivor died or think the game is unbalanced if the killer tries to win.
I mean you see it all the time on the forums let alone in game.
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@RenRen said:
Wait didn't they say there was individual mmr? Is it bugged or something?
From the looks of it its either horribly bugged or they decided to remove it for whatever reason.
Given the developers actions they probably removed it on purpose without telling us...Again
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@Foxy_Teltac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2508692#Comment_2508692
I played a lot of red rank since Pyramid Head and I never saw this many, by old red ranks do you mean before MMR or what people would consider "Legacy" dbd?
I'd say before MMR not "legacy".
The SWF i saw at rank 1 were a lot sweatier then ones I ever faced at rank 4 so I probably should have mentioned that as you get casual swf at low red ranks and a lot of sweats at high red rank.
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Welcome to what high rank killers have been experiencing for a while now.
This is just an average sweat squad set up at old red ranks. They may not be the best but they are going all out and they want to show how much they don't care about your fun!
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@NomiNomad said:
"They gave him a longer lunge."
Wat
No they didn't. Myers is the only one with a longer lunge at base. Unless you mean his tentacle whip?
Even then his whip is smaller then a lunge(6 Meters) at T1/T2(5 Meters) and the same as a lunge at T3(6 meters).
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507291#Comment_2507291
Oni is literally a vampire. He feeds on blood. We have had a vampiric killer in the game since 2019, which actually highlights the problem: people need something that's both a stereotype and that fits into DbD.
Seriously, it's not an easy ask. If you just cut-and-paste a Dracula character, it's not going to have the suspension of disbelief that lisenced characters have. That's why Blight is so different from Jekyll and Hyde.
So... Why would they bother making an appropriate mix of slasher and gothic horror when they could just make other semi-generic slasher killers instead? That's the question that has to be answered, because as I pointed out numerous times, we literally have a vampire that everyone forgets is a vampire because he's too original.
Would I love for a stereotypical vampire to be added? Hell yes. But it's not that likely to happen.
Just as an fyi blood magic/drinking isn't special in eastern myth. Even TREE Yokai such as the Jubokko can do it its that common.
Also gothic vampires have a lot of magic at their disposal then is often shown and even more varied types then one would suspect for hunting.
So a possible magic focused gothic vampire isn't out of the cards given how much room there is to work with without going near the Oni's niche.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507284#Comment_2507284
You do know not all balance standards must be applied equally to both sides, right? If survivors have a strong thing with no downside, but killers have an incredibly strong thing with no downside, there's no need to add a downside to the survivor thing if you add a downside to the killer thing.
Not everything is an us vs them debate, and you don't have to bring it up in every conversation, you know?
Just pointing out the hypocrisy
Btw You are literally saying: "Rules for THE not for ME".
I am sorry but double standards should be called out.
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@MadLordJack said:
Sure. Vampires and werewolves are absolutely at the top of the horror villain list - for gothic horror and dark fantasy. But this is a slasher game, so they're not that important. Which isn't to say they shouldn't be added, it's just that it's one of those things that's probably never going to be a priority for the developers.
Especially since they already have a vampire. Literally. Oni feeds on blood.
They have literally shown a vampire killer(Implied to be Vlad the Impaler aka Dracula from their appearance) in the archives cut scenes.
Its really weird that they'd show us a canon vampire killer then never give us one to play as.
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@Yords said:
I like scott's idea of nerfing it, make it not work until you have been cloaked for at least 5 seconds.
That would solve nothing from what people claim to want the nerf for which is the anti stealth/immersed.
Being honest all seeing blood is probably the most overrated add-on in the game currently due to how low its detection range actually is.
Ps. Not all strong add-ons need a downside or we should start applying that logic to the survivors too as a lot of their best add-ons have no downsides despite their power.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2507011#Comment_2507011
Solo stomping perk therefore unhealthy game design.
Eh not really because you could argue any stealth killer with any generator detection perk would be op...So you want to nerf pig?
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@Brokenbones said:
If there's no available dull totem then the perk doesn't activate
it's the same if survivors go around cleansing dulls.
Slightly off-topic but with the addition of boom totems I have a sneaking suspicious that survivors might not actually 'destroy' totems anymore, but rather 'unlight' them to cleanse them which means boon totems can then be used. That's my theory on how it'll work
IDK random speculation
The only issue with the no longer breaking totems idea is NOED would no long be able to be prevented and perks like play thing being able to go off up to 11 times instead of just at max 5.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I wouldn't say to nerf the Ruin Undying combo. Just take the Tinkerer far, far away.
Tinkerer is entirely under the control of the survivors do I doubt it will ever be nerfed.
In fact Tinkerer/Ruin/Undying are all perks that are controlled by the survivors in some way making it the fairest killer meta the game has ever had:
Ruin/Undying are totems so they can both be destroyed in the first 16 seconds of a game. Also the killer has to pressure generators for these 2 to do anything at all.
Tinkerer literally only activates by survivors actions on generators and only can be reset on said generator by the killer regressing it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2506402#Comment_2506402
I swear to this day that they nerfed Billy's base turning when they changed him. He just doesn't feel right anymore. Maybe it's the animations.
Anyway, without engravings he's pretty much backrev simulator on a lot of maps. And if you want to backrev just play Bubba.
His camera got pushed forward ahead of the actual character model by a lot(by about a good two meters).
So turning is probably uneffected but they screwed up his PoV so badly that its nearly impossible to actually judge curving anymore as you can't see them properly anymore.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2505410#Comment_2505410
Most of what you are talking about is purely PTB. When a killer is released, it is irrelevant.
Him being low wasn't as much of a detriment as people pretend, him not breaking pallets or walls was a complete and utter non-issue because HE IS BLIGHT and could absolutely be removed without any real impact, and here's a secret that I'm sick of sitting on: He was perfectly playable on console with a custom controller like the Xbox Elite one, because his only major issue was the turn curve was misimplimented.
Most of those were from live versions of the game. For example blight's rush being able break pallets was added in 4.2.2. He was released in 4.2
He left the PTB limping.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Lol, all killers have more than 50% kill rate, if they gonna balance gens as per your suggestion bhvr would have to decrease time needed to do gens.
Same bloody thread again and again. "Oh no, I'm not winning 90% of my games anymore, bhvr ruined the game!"
Given the developers have NEVER acted on their claim that 50/50 is balanced its worthless to even bring up.
Also remember that if they do the 50/50 they'd have to massively buff NURSE!
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The selective memory of the community with blight's release is astonishing.
Blight was released half finished to say the least and he has received(The wiki is weirdly lacking in recording this) so many massive buffs(Massive PoV and Lethal Rush now breaking pallets to name a few) and bug fixes were given to him.
If literally any other killer had the amount of effort put into them post launch that blight did every single last one of them would be in blight's position.
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I fully expect one of two things with boon totems:
They are either overpowered by being strong enough to force a killer to break them(Good luck getting to one on the other side of mother's dwelling without losing even on blight/wraith). This would most likely just be nerfed out of the game.
Or
They are so underpowered the developers might as well not even bothered making them a boon totem as killers will always ignore the totems on the opposite side of the map. They will stay underpowered forever.
I don't expect the devs to actually balance them let alone with a mechanic that's conceptually unbalancable like forcing killers to break the totems.
We don't even know if the killer kicking the totem will destroy it or not and if not broken when kicked the killer might need to kick totems(Or even one totem) 16 times a game.
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Given how much the MMR tends to raise all your killer's MMR way too much right now...
I think its an issue of the game pushing killer's MMR up far too much when compared to the survivors causing you to enter MMR deadzones.
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Known bugs section is only for recently discovered bugs.
Trust me they know nurse is heavily bugged but it not appearing in the known bugs because they are old is normal.
Why they don't try to fix them is another question entirely.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
I tried Undying Ruin and it just seems to gave me wins I really didn't think I deserved. How can I moan about survivor meta-perks when we have that?
Simple: You can literally lose both within the first 16 seconds of a game unlike survivor perks.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501769#Comment_2501769
There was one version of it only; that is not iterating on it. Not that it matters - I'm not even asking for that system. I'm asking for a genuine fix to very badly broken game design.
They did iterate on it in PTBs with changes to radius it counts, Making it deactivate in chases and instead of stopping the sacrifice it simply slowed by X amount.
No matter what they did survivors managed to abuse it.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2501647#Comment_2501647
That one idea was abused and then not reiterated on is very telling since it means they do recognise its an issue but can't be bothered to deal with it over other issues. Fact is, the implementation they had didn't then get obvious number changes for range/even changes to what counts as 'chase' in order to deal with the abuse, so nothing changed. At least at that point it wasn't so common.
Now we need more than bandaid perks when some like BT can't exactly do something about Bubba and another idea would be to start completely changing the functionality of staple camping perks such as Monstrous Shrine (why does this not have a use other than to counter camaraderie if you want to camp lmao) and make Insidious be chase specific rather than a blatant camping perk lol
It WAS iterated on but every iteration got abused to the point that they gave up.
Simply put if there is a way for survivors to gain an advantage over the killer by using a feature they will find a way to do it and abuse it until they lose it.
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@Triadequinaxor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2497226#Comment_2497226
the one thing to alert you that wraith is nearby gets removed because of an addon, your bait
Also Crystal bead makes maps 4 times as powerful as instead of one person seeing what is mapped everyone can!
Also blood ember reveals the killer unless they are undetectable which bypasses terror radius reduction perks as well allowing you to see the killer when you normally can't.
Survivors have as much if not more unfair stuff then wraith can ever dream of having.
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@Triadequinaxor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2496137#Comment_2496137
The problem with the Coxcombed wrapper is that it has no trade off, like you still have windstorm, if you are using that addon it should remove windstorm
Most add-ons for both sides have no downside for using them including ultra rares such as the Crystal Bead, BNP, and or the Blood Ember(Given that you'd need add-ons for keys charges to be used it in practice has no downside).
Add-ons don't need downsides for the sake of having downsides. That mentality Its how we get useless junk like Abdominal Dressing.
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The devs would first need to acknowledge that they screwed up billy with the gutting they gave him and given that literally no one at the company has taken credit for making those changes...
So Billy will never be fixed because the developers refuse to accept that they screwed up with him.
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You do know he already has an innate Franklin's Demise effect when he downs a survivor with the box right?
All the perk does is to let the innate effect work on healthy survivors.
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Remember that you'd have more diversity if survivors stopped begging for nerfs for everything.
Billy would be seeing play and give you more divsersity but a group of people cried so much about him on the forums that he was gutted.
Remember asking for killer nerfs is a monkey paw's wish:
It will always go badly for you in entirely predictable ways.
In this case there's much less killer diversity because of the nerfs.