Warcrafter4
Warcrafter4
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@Sluzzy said:
In some other match, a killer slugs all survivors with 5 gens up. How are kill times ok?
Meh 3-4 of them will have unbreakable so they'd need to do that twice which would be 8-16(Depending on how they use them) hooks worth of downs while also being easily disruptable.
Mass slugging only really works in select set ups as talking from experience as both a survivor and a killer player(Mainly from the survivor side since I don't like to mass slug) that if you don't get the 4th person its extremely likely you'd lose the hooks on 2 out of the 3 survivors if the last one plays properly...or an unbreakable happens.
Edit: What I am getting at is unlike gen rushing mass slugging has a lot of risks with it an can easily backfire and lose you a lot of hooks depending on a lot of factors.
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@RizeAki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1630323#Comment_1630323
Holdup those are the perks that scare you? And doctor and plague?
I think they are just baiting at this point.
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People complain about BBQ because they see it a lot when they lose.
Its NOT because it actually does something as I have had people complain about BBQ when I was playing as/against Trapper who can't use the aura reveal information at all...
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@Zozzy said:
If the game is balanced around 2 dead 2 escape, that means the dev's expect all 5 gens to be done in every single game.
Every game being split evenly 1k or 3k means its a 2k average.
Or if 0k/1k/3k/4k are all evenly split 25% each the average is still 2k.
2k can literally never happen and still have a 2k average.
So no the 5 gens/gates AREN'T meant to be open every game.
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@Iron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1622489#Comment_1622489
If they power through gens ruin does nothing, you need to be a high pressure killer to get use out of it. With surge you can cause gens you weren't able to pressure to be regressed.
Seriously, ruin is an ok perk that doesn't last nearly as long in most games as you give it credit.
I play all killers and ruin is best on killers that induce pressure, while surge is better on set up killers.
We're going to disagree here because honestly you can't have a conversation without trying to discredit the other side.
Yes and you state things that simply aren't true.
I'll agree to end it here though.
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@Iron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1621906#Comment_1621906
It is a time saver in that I do not have to walk over to the gen to regress it, especially in situations that I would rather start another chase, than have to pop a gen.
Ruin does its job better in a perfect situation, but in the scenario of ruin being cleansed and there being only 2 gens left I would rather protect the gens with surge than have to walk up to each individually.
In plain terms, ruin does not last all game vs a semi competent team, so I would rather not rely on it vs something I can control.
A couple of things.
- The survivors have control over Surge not the killer as survivors choose where the chase ultimately ends or at.least the general area. However Ruin is under the killer's control as it starts the regression on the generator you chased them off of aka the ones your trying to protect.
- Ruin is just flat out better with more overall up time even if cleansed half way through a match. Ruin's regression starts at the beginning of a chase and not the end making it have a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER up time when compared to Surge.
The total regression in games where I have Surge vs Ruin even counting the upfront regression surge has the uptime ruin has since its at the beginning of the chase means it got well more then double if not triple the total regression even in games where it lasted only 5 out of the 10 mins the game had lasted.
Finally being honest: From the way you talk about Surge you clearly haven't played with it at all and/or not played with Ruin enough to get a proper contrast.
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@Pawcelot said:
Reduce the damage it causes to 1/2/3% but remove the cooldown? You're often not using it for the actual damage it deals, rather that it starts regression on nearby generators.
Then that would be just a worse ruin.
The whole argument about it being used to begin regression kinda falls flat once you realize ruin is objectively better at doing that then surge is.
I honestly want to know where this idea that its a "Time Saver" perk even came from given how many people say it despite it having no basis in reality. Aka which youtuber/streamer called it that?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1620381#Comment_1620381
Afaik Peanuts also gets his information relayed to him by the development team.
Peanits is also known for saying things that have no basis in reality in the past(that comment was a long time ago and was never repeated when asked).
So there's a good chance that the comment was Peanits simply being wrong(Especually when we have Q A answers that directly contradict this statement).
He's human after all he can make mistakes.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1620361#Comment_1620361
And from what I remember on these forums, they said that wasn't its only purpose.
They ackowledged it can be used with clicky clicky flashlight spam as a distraction but only Peanits who has no say in design has ever called it anti momentum and no other dev when asked has ever called it anti momentum.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619593#Comment_1619593
The devs have confirmed before that while anti-tunneling is a side effect of DS, it's main purpose is an anti-momentum perk, not anti-tunneling, in its current state.
The developers whose designed the rework to Decisive strike themselves have said its an anti tunnel perk.
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@Iron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619607#Comment_1619607
Meyers is probably the worst example of this you could give. Ghostface is a probable for fast repeatability. Plague, and legion as well could do this. The point is that the cd is there so you can't just walk from gen area to gen area killing their progress. It's a time saver, which in regards to the ability vs pop comes out to still less in most cases, but if you can chase another person immediately while it's regressing it is better.
You clearly don't play killer a lot if you think Purge is used as a time saver as HEX: Ruin is strictly better then it as a time saver(Trust me I have tried both on legion and plague ruin is better for both as a time saver even if cleansed halfway through a match).
It also doesn't help that ruin is also a better regression perk.
Surge's point is to spread out regression across multiple generators including ones being worked on and its cooldown is far too restrictive to allow that.
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@Iron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619572#Comment_1619572
I'd be ok with it being like 12% with the same cd, either that or you could increase the radius by 8-12m and I think it would make it more powerful.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1619577#Comment_1619577
If there was no cd I think it'd be too strong. There are killers who can take advantage of it being no cd and could regress gens excessively if someone is actually sitting on a gen nearby.
Here's a better question:
If 2 people have gone down against lets just say an extended tier 3 Michael within range of surge and someone is still on the gen then I'd have to ask what's the bigger issue there?:
The 16-24 percent gen regression(Less then one pop or equal to it in an average case)
Or
The near guaranteed 3rd down.
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@Iron said:
Imo it's fine, I use it on trapper all the time. Would you want to remove it or just lower it to a smaller cool down?
TBH it really doesn't need a cooldown given that regressing generators are immune to surge.
Aka Surged generators are immune to being surged again until a survivor begins to fix them again.
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I think this change has to do with all the impossible blind glitches that were happening more then anything else where you could blind a killer who wasn't even facing you.
Which mind you they have tried multiple times to fix over the course of 1-2 years so a rework to try to finally fix those glitches isn't all that surprising.
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If they increase his switch delay then I'd think they would have to increase his base range on his ranged attack as a trade off as he would be too weak without it.
The trade off would mean his binary pallet/window play would be heavily weakened but his more skillful long range attacks would be more viable.
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Its RNG if it even protects anything.
If there are 2 hex totems in the game then its a 50/50 when a hex totem goes that its undying or the hex its trying to protect.
If Undying goes first it hasn't really done much but reveal a survivor cleansing a totem whose probably on the other side of the map from you who will almost always break the totem and run due to the Hex broken alert.
Also there just aren't enough good hex perks for it to protect for it to be worth running since it doesn't really help with NOED(Do bones counter both) or Devour hope(Loses all Tokens when broken).
Only ruin/Haunted grounds work with it and no one is going to be cleansing Hex totems after the haunted grounds pops so I doubt the dream will be realized.
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@Ghost_Face_Main said:
Do you care to elaborate?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9YPF0KQF41FD/img-20200825-063143.jpg
They are refering to the Trapper resisting the Entity's control and was physically tortured by the Entity until he gave in.
Its also why he has hooks stuck in his flesh.
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I doubt they ever will release the "Raw" stats again since people on these forums can't seem to accept that the data is flawed because its not refined enough to give the full information.
I mean look at the now nearly year old stats: People still try to use them to argue for killer nerfs despite both their age and game updates since renders them invalid.
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It simply depends on what I am seeing a lot of:
If its nothing but Tier 3 builds(Extended or Permanent)Michaels/Oni's/Legion I'd probably run it.
If I am getting thana/Sloppy combo nearly every game I'd run it.
But generally speaking I'd only run it as my flexible slot if I am playing a build that has one(Which I usually do as a solo survivor).
But its not a main stay perk in any build other then the No Mither dream meme.
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I often see this type of double pallet set up on the Macmillan estate maps most commonly on coal tower near the killer shack because 1 god pallet wasn't enough 3 back to back can spawn.
I can't blame killers for giving up that side of the map if that spawns.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1593026#Comment_1593026
Proven to be wrong? So when you go for someone else at a gen after you hooked someone, what do you think that is called?
I honestly don’t care if it’s Otz, Tru3, The President, Keanu Reeves (well maybe then), whoever.. mocking the very thing you always do as killer. Everything you do to prevent survivors from outpacing you and as a result getting them off gens is called pressure.
But let’s reel it back to why that was even brought up. You just said how sometimes it is impossible because of perks/map set ups, yet you do not take into account the skill of a survivor... you assume that survivors stun the killer with DS when (at best) many of them are only able to bait it, but without the killer biting.
You aren’t always going to be able to work around DS and sometimes that won’t matter because that survivor might be able to loop you the equivalent of them being able to DS stun you because in actuality they are very good at the game. Doesn’t mean everyone and their mother have the same skill.
As a killer however, you can slug and force the same pressure you normally would without DS even being in play.
Ultimately this is just a derailment of the thread so lets get things straight:
The point of this thread is to show that the game's gen speed is directly affected by the abundance of 2nd chance perks regardless of how its played and its overall effects on the game's generator speed balancing.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I actually disagree.
When/If I notice there is an obsession In that match, I tend to slug someone (WHEN I find it convenient to do so) thus slowing down the game because I have now created pressure and forced at least one person off of a generator.
The problem with your theory is the problem I have with most of the “DS/Unbreakable” complaints. You present it in a scenario where they ALWAYS use it. This is not true if you know how to play around it.
Earlier I had a Squad that took me to Haddonfield, and 3 of them had DS/UB. I knew they were together because they immediately unhooked. So without further notice I went ahead and acted as if I left the next time and noticed it was the guy who had just gotten unhooked. Downed him and went for the recently unhooked they had BT. In the meantime a 3rd survivor was around to try to pick them up because they didn’t have enough time to use UB, so I stopped them, by injuring them, then picked up the survivor with UB and chased and downed the 3rd survivor.
That is how when people tell you “Apply Pressure” that is what it means. Needless to say I got all 4. But ended up giving one of them the hatch. I know this is only one of many scenarios, but let’s stop acting like certain perk combos actually proc when if you play it right you can prevent them from pro cc’ing at all.
You know the apply pressure thing is proven to be wrong right?
Even OTZ and Tr3 both mock the "Just Pressure" arguement because it can literally be impossible to do so without the survivors messing up depending on how the map spawns/having these perks.
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@InsidousEqualWin said:
Its pretty obvious Nurse is the best killer in the game and has no counterplay. Alright so you know how Plaid Flanal ad on shows Nurse where her blink is going. I think that same animation should be on survivor point of view so they can see where her blink is going. I think this would give her actual counterplay Thoughts?
One this doesn't address anything since all since nurse mains DON'T USE IT.
Two this is a purely spiteful change as this is solely to let survivor stomp newer nurses who'd need the addon to even be able to play the killer.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1592827#Comment_1592827
There are more important things the devs are supposed to do as opposed to just changing gens time.
-Buffing certain killer
-More Map balance (size,amount,strength and distance between each looop)
-Adding something for the early game (Is confirmed to be added soon)
-Balancing SWF and solo queue
And if you look at the last kill statistics you will see that killers are performing really well.Even before all those map changes.
Killers are,except a few,in a really good spot now.
Those kill rate statistics are a nearly a year old at this point and are no longer representative of the game as win rates do naturally go up and down over time based off of how much people have experienced these games.
Also if the devs took those into consideration then The Nurse would have been buffed a long time due to having an overall lower kill rate then THE CLOWN.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1592343#Comment_1592343
I mean,i hate some second chance perks like unbreakable too but let's be honest.
The amount of matches you get against a sweaty team with super optimal Loadout and gameplay is soooo rare that decent killers still get their kills in most of their matches.
Perks can only carry the player to a certain degree.I've seen a LOT of survivors with really strong loadouts still failling because they made one mistake after another.
I know but it doesn't stop the fact that these perks make it incredibly difficult for the developers to balance out gen times as if they balance them around these perks those who aren't running these perks get their games ruined due to the generator progress for them being slowed too much.
However if they don't balance around these perks it gives those who have them a significant generator progress advantage over the killer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
And still Killers are doing well despite those second chance Perks. Well, obviously not the Killers on this forum, but in general, Killers are not in a bad spot.
Even people like OTZ struggles against 4 DS/Unbreakables in a game.
This thread was also here to point that that there are legitimate issues with 2nd chance perks in DbD from a design perspective due to their abilities to both prevent survivors from losing and speed up the game by preventing the killer's natural slow down.
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Items gotten from chests do not appear on the end results screen.
Only items brought in are shown and given that there's a plunderer's instinct it was most likely them finding a dull/skeleton key from a chest.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1591752#Comment_1591752
Alternatively:
Kill Rush = Killer ended the game fast because their only objective rewards using unfun and frustrating gameplay mechanics.
Gen Rush = Killer wasted all his time tunneling and/or poorly providing pressure and let the other Survivors easily complete their only objective.
It's a non-argument either way, but there you go.
If you legitimately think thats the only condition for gen rushing then you clearly haven't seen gen rush squads/Tournament squads who will get those gens done no matter what the killer does unless its someone like forever freddy.
Even then I have seen those squads gen rush some forever freddies just depending on how many pallets spawned.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1591905#Comment_1591905
it dumb when people say that I mean what the point in having all these killer if only 3 can handle a match.
It really does go to show how badly balanced the game is for killers though and how "survivor mains" squeal nerfs about the only usable 3 solely because they lose to them(Its not that they have an actual design problem).
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@humanbeing1704 said:
How was the game with it on I never played during that full period
The main issue MMR had was for whatever reason it was working backwards:
The more you won the easier games you got.
and
The more you lost the harder games you got.
There was clearly game breaking bugs with the MMR system.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1587546#Comment_1587546
Still, don't you think negating probably the most common type of survivor perk spending only 3k BP is too much?
Not really since unless its specifically Dead Hard most exhuastion perks can just be activated early and thus ignoring the addon.
Exhaustion addons almost exclusively counter Dead Hard which if your giving up one of your 2 addon slots to counter one specific perk then I think that's ok to have on a few killers(Not all but it makes playing against killers more diverse).
Mind you this is comming from someone whose main exhaustion perk is Dead Hard and I find these addons to be fine.
Btw BP price doesn't matter to game balance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Her add-ons are outdated. How come she has a brown add-on that causes exhaustion for 30 seconds while Demogorgon's is a purple one and only causes it for 5 seconds?
I hope they don't mess with her basekit. Imagine if her arm would overheat while holding a hatchet?
Using demo as a comparison point doesn't really work given that demo is infamous for having underpowered add-ons outside of one that being rat liver.
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@Axe said:
As a Freddy main I think the passive sleep could go away, Freddy should instead have to work for it. That would be more balanced imo
I'd be ok with this but the passive sleep also forces survivors to use clocks instead of just waking the other up while one is awake.
I'd say just make the first sleep take 15~ seconds longer would weaken him without gutting him because of the interactions of awake survivors and asleep ones.
Freddy is a lot harder to balance then most people give him credit for due to being nothing but an M1 killer without people asleep(No dream traps) since his teleport's cooldown is over twice as long if everyone is awake.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585294#Comment_1585294
The main issue is just how powerful those ealier perks are.
Let's take Unbreakable and Flip Flop as examples - Why do you want to risk getting off the shoulders (without 100% succeeding) when you can just pick yourself up. And yes technically flip flop can be used a bunch but Unbreakable still is better in that regard.
I agree that they are far too strong but my main issue with them is that the devs designed themselves into a corner with these perks.
The main reason why I say that is every second chance that can keep a survivor in the game also increases the total amount of possible generator completion by the virtue of keeping the survivors in the game for longer.
Ex. Let alone Decisive strike making survivors not need to leave the gens to go for a save gives a lot by itself but a 5 second stun is a theoretical 15% total gen progression(Across 3 gens) let alone all the progression added in from the rest of said chase.
So second chance perks both keep the survivors alive and ultimately increase generator completion speed so they add a lot more benefit to the survivors then they first seem.
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Efficiency is a factor:
Early on into a game being as efficient as possible matters the most and that's where theoretically the syringe shines.
However efficiency in time matters little when its down to the last 3 generators(Where toolboxes shine and healing is easiest) where one generator being powered out as fast as possible rather then as safely as possible.
A commodious toolbox with a clean rag + BNP will get you the gen done faster then the syringe will because of the progression penalty from multiple survivors makes it equal to commodious + rag at 170% speed.
TLDR: Effectively toolbox + BNP can get you more done when it matters the most.
Edit: Also early game where the syringe's efficency matters the most is also when its the hardest to use unless your SWF as finding another survivor to use it on that early can actually be quiet hard.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585425#Comment_1585425
Why was the escape/kill/point/rank section not included?
You can tell that was a SWF because they're running meta perks, but what would you have the devs do, nerf all the meta perks? Balancing the game around SWF is a horrible idea.DS has already been nerfed extensively because of SWF and people still want it nerfed.
The DS change was a side grade as DS became better for people who weren't the obession because the killer could no longer juggle you to prevent DS from activating.
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@Avarice10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585392#Comment_1585392
That's some interested invented logic you have there. But it's not true. Perks like Alert say hello.
Here's the thing though if you have used alert(Like I have getting adapt fing min) is that it rarely if ever goes off in chases as you usually see the killer kicking it anyways and see them chasing you.
Alert is mainly helpful for letting you know when a killer has kicked a gen sense you can't physically see them most of the time when they do thus letting you see the aura.
Also "Im All Earns" says hello as well.
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@Avarice10 said:
Killers get all sorts of perks that show exactly where survivors are, why can't Survivors have OoO? Balancing the game around SWF is ridiculous.
Pursuers(Killers) are allowed to know where the people they are pursuing(Survivors) are but not vice versa because the person being pursued(Survivors) just has to escape not actively catch the other unlike the pursuer(Killers).
Aka the killer has to do more then the survivor does in a chase hence why they are allowed to get more information.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585328#Comment_1585328
This week i gave 2 "pity hooks" to killer who had bad games.
The first pity hook i gave i died first hook because my team left right away.
The second time i got facecamped. "gg ez" from the killer btw
And some wonder why survivors dont do it that often anymore.
You are literally the only person on the forums who has ever done that as other who complain about killers showing no mercy when questioned admitted they never have shown mercy to the killer.
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@Sluzzy said:
Killers never have mercy for solos but you are calling on all SWF to have mercy on the killer and not hurt their feelings and be a good little sport? I don't think it works that way.
I have seen more killers show mercy to survivors then I have ever seen survivors show mercy to killers.
Killers never have to give someone the hatch but do anyways when they win hard.
But the opposite never happens were survivors will give pity hooks for when they win hard against the killer.
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@MargretAtWalmart said:
Why are PC players on dbd so sweaty? Like, I thought us console players were bad but after playing against all these tryhard spirits, nurses and the race car bubbas I'm rethinking that. And jesus the amount of face camping and tunneling is actually UNREAL. And is it just me or do hitboxes just die between PC and console? Like, there are times when there is a whole wall between us or the killer just hits a wall yet it still downs me. And there have been other times that things should have hit but it didn't. Does anyone else care to share their crossplay experience?
Btw the globe icon doesn't mean PC it just means its someone on a different version of the game.
If your on Xbox the globe could be Playstation Switch Or PC so you might not have even run into a single PC player.
Also killers do have to sweat right now due to archives such as "Item of obsession" or whatever its called that asks survivors to escape with a purple tier item or better so killers are being swamped by SWF going all out.
So in order to win killers have been going all out in response atm.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585140#Comment_1585140
The only way to change survivor meta is to gut the existing perks and give them some other press E to outplay or just exist to outplay perk that gives them 5 extra chances to screw up.
Anything that doesn't screw the killer over or give you 6 chances to make a mistake is "crap"
From a fundamental design level there is no real way outside of progressing the game faster(Aka Prove Thy Self) to make anything more appealing then perks that can flat out prevent you from losing while playing as the the "Non power role".
The devs have designed themselves into a corner with 2nd chance/exhaustion perks because there is no real logical reason to run anything else.
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As a survivor its usually them doing dumb things like:
Selfcaring in a corner in a Sloppy/Thana game.
Farming me when I am on hook because they don't know how to do safe saves.
Teammates that lure the killer to me unhook me then urban evasion away. Aka the above but even more annoying.
Teammates that leave me to die on hook even though they are right next to me and I have kindred showing a teammate being chased by the killer on the opposite side of the map.
Teammates who can't take responsibility when they throw the game and get called out for it by everyone including the killer.
Killers rarely annoy me even face campers(Including being face camped) I just laugh at because of kindred and watching them lose because of it and seeing some of them having a meltdown in the end game lobby complaining no one went in for the same.
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@Godot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/187276/survivors-taking-game-hostage-to-exploit-hatch
How is that taking the game hostage? It's clearly a strategy for Survivors, just like camping, tunneling and slugging are strategies for Killers.
Taking you two hours to finish a game just means you're bad at Killer, no offense.
Holding the game hostage by refusing to do your objective while also not letting the killer do theirs is against the rules.
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People saw this being used against tr3 and now we are getting copy cats.
This has been happening in my games as well but the lag teleporting part so survivors can escape loops without leaving scratch marks.
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@NekoGamerX said:
why is Michael so low yes he got a slow start but he good.
If you had played as michael against a decent 4 man SWF then they can pretty easily keep you in tier 1 for quiet a while depending on how the map spawned.
If they are successful at keeping you in tier 1 for an extended time period of time you pretty much lose the game.
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@Primalux135 said:
Does they stack I wonder... So will hook spawn on each corner of the map or how?
The petrified log only stacks up to 2 times from what I know.
Any extra logs use past that will solely counteract the killers' logs if they use one(The purple log is worth 3.5 petrified logs in terms of counteracting effects).
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Not much of an achievement when you can earn that even after moring 4 people with Devour hope.
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Shred is useful and is arguably one their strongest ability its just only 2-3 addons support it.
If shred had a proper add-on line up it could easily be one of the better chasing abilities in the game but as of now it lacks enough support to do much thus not letting demo do much.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1583298#Comment_1583298
as someone stated before you of you run a nurse for 3-5 gens she isnt good. That was my point and that is why I commented. I dont care for the OP of the thread or his post. I commented on what you said. It was illogical and I gave you a scenario of what a good nurse looks like which you said things basically saying you can't say a good nurse wouldn't fall for jukes or whatever. But that argument works. A good nurse won't chase you for that long, a good nurse will end a chase in 30 seconds or less. These are all valid arguments because the good nurse is not a unicorn nurse. They are real and the situations are real. Anyways the point is the nurses you played against aren't good as that guy said and there is no reason to argue against the truth of the matter
Dude some of those nurses downes against my team in 30 seconds in each chase or less and got 2 of my team sacrifices and I ran her for ~3.5 gens with ONE teammate working on gens.
They were "Good" but due to the "No True Scotsmen" fallacy which YOUR PROVING people call them bad.