Warcrafter4
Warcrafter4
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I feel like survivors don't like the fact that some killers have proper counter-play to their exhaustion perk and thus harass them for it.
I'd argue we'd need more killers(But still a minority of them) with exhaustion addons not less because it forces survivors to change their gameplay and makes the game less stale.
Its an irony of is situation is that survivor can't seem to see that exhaustion addons do to them what cleasning hex totems does to killers making it "Turnabout is Fair Play" where both sides can disable each other's perks.
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@Toxicity23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1671037#Comment_1671037
Soul guard doesn't counter hexes, actually.
It's countering if you have an ability meant to kill off a hex in the first place.
It counters slugging more accurately. And a damn fine perk too. The perk shouldn't be touched. The effect of reviving on your own is already incredibly niche, you might as well shoot the perk in the head if you want to make it single-use and make another not-so-decent perk into the trash bin.
I never mentioned nerfing the revive to one or removing it at all.
Its a long term problematic perk that is more or less destined to be reworked because once hexes become dominate and that revive becomes a normal part of the perk then it will be reworked for being an objectively better unbreakable.
I honestly don't know how the devs could fix soul guard once hexes become the norm but nerfing it won't actually fix the issues the perk has from a fundamental design perspective.
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You know you can tell as a survivor if surveillance is in the game by how loud the generators are when you work on them?
It increases the area AND THE SOUND of the generators with that effect.
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@tylxr_jay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680478#Comment_1680478
A killer with built in tracking, denies pallets/windows, decent map pressure, 4.6m/s, slowdown via madness 3 and f*ck all cooldown for shock therapy. i dont understand how you could loose tbh.
Lets see: He has no way of damaging outside of M1 with a normal 115% movement speed while not charging shock therapy.
Survivors can dodge shock therapy rather easily if he spams it and he is slowed while spamming it.
Actually timing the wave to get the stun timed right isn't as easy as it seems and mistiming it can cost you hits.
Throwing pallets early can outright make shock therapy irrelevant.
His map pressure is average at best given that static blast it doesn't force survivors off of gens for long outside of tier 3 and any good survivors can ignore most of the madness effects entirely.
He is a solid B tier(Slightly above average/usable tier) killer but nothing more then that.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680296#Comment_1680296
Ok but what does that have to do with things having an oppressive ability in the game?
He doesn't have one and if he's oppressive with perk A they don't need to change perk A to stop him being oppressive with it by changing the interaction.
Also if he does get nerfed guess what 2/3 killers your going to be seeing more often: Freddy/Spirit/Pyramid head because the deathslinger players will begin to play them instead making the game more stale.
Your Deathslinger nerf is a monkeys' paw wish. It will NEVER end well.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680287#Comment_1680287
I'm not saying none of the stuff will be nerfed but I am saying nobody bought the game to play a side that gets a nerf damn near every patch. Also we could sue that same oppressive logic with slinger.
Not overly?
Due to killer's powers being unlinked from each other and their perks unlike survivor's if Deathslinger causes design space issue with a perk they can literally make it not work with him due to being unlinked.
They have done so with PWYF having different actions being allowed/disallowed on a killer by killer basis for what uses a token or not so its already something they do in the game.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680193#Comment_1680193
The meta changes offered by survivors are nerfs instead of changes thatsbwhy they are usually against it. I was gonna bring up this point in my original post but I will say it now.
Playing survivor really sucks because at some point whatever you have is gonna get nerfed. It's been happening since 2016 and it started getting worse when clown came out in for nerfs.
Given the history of the game survivors receiving nerfs makes sense since they have always been stronger then most killers for most of the game's existance.
Also Survivor perks being so strong hamstrings the rest of the possible perk buffs the developers can do because they'd have to consider if it would be too overpowered because of DS/Unbreakable.
Also I know nerfing DS won't magically make everything good but I feel like its nerf will let the game move on as DS is both oppressive in gameplay as it is in design space it takes up.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680178#Comment_1680178
Can you not make this an us vs them. Nobody is complaining nobody is fighting you didnt have to do it but you did. Now if you have nothing better to say leave.
I am sorry about making it "Us Vs Them" but:
I was mainly bringing it up because its an infinitely repeating cycle of these forums that I am personally getting sick of seeing and it mainly(But not exclusively) applies to the survivor side of the player base.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/197847/so-i-have-quit-dbd-for-a-bit
The meta feels stale because it's never really changed for survivor
Lets also add that the moment anyone brings up changes that would change the stale survivor meta would be harassed by the same survivors complaining the game is stale.
Also the same survivors complain about seeing the same killers every game also complain about less common killers until they are nerfed and are seen even less making their own issue far worse(You can see this currently with Deathslinger an uncommon average/below average killer).
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The issue with this suggestion is that windows are already the best type of loop due to being infinitely reusable.
This would make them stronger as window loops don't have pallets so killers can't blood lust.
Keep in mind you have the "House of Pain" loop which is an already near infinite window loop against Huntress/Deathslinger with the current blood lust mechanics and would be an outright infinite with these changes.
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@Milo said:
Well yeah, you have 2 hooks in you! Why not use them while trying to help the team? You can allow your team to reset with those 2x60seconds.
While I agree with you there are exceptions:
Killers like Legion(Spreading damage/Hit and Run) or Oni(Instant down/Rampage killer) who like to spread out the damage and usually don't both pick up the first person they chase.
So I have had games against Legion/Oni where i did do most of the looping but just Feral Frenzy chained off of or get demon striked into the ground and slugged until picked up while he runs off to try to down the rest of my team.
That being said however it doesn't sound like either was the case for them in their games.
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@xXCAM3R0NXx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679241#Comment_1679241
But shred isn't a basic attack? So it wouldn't be affected by the STBFL?
Your missing the point:
Its good because it DOESN'T COUNT AGAINST YOUR STACKS!
This means demo can attack the obsession with impunity to losing STBFL rendering the main downside of STBFL moot while being able to reliably kill of the obsession while keeping all 8 stacks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1678902#Comment_1678902
Your post might have some meaning, but the screenshot is just an ego boost making you feel big because you dominated one match. Congratulations.
This a False equivalence fallacy:
Just because they won doesn't mean they can't complain it both frustrating and wasn't fun winning said game.
Winning =/= fun/relaxing/enjoyable.
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"Wannabe Comp Squads" are far more common then most people think and given how the ranks were spread out its nearly 100% a "Wannabe Comp Squad" looking for an easy game.
Mind you match making can make weird looking matches as I have been solo que in a game as the only player above rank 16 but that 1/4/5/10 split is a tell tale sign of SWF group trying to game matchmaking to smurf.
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1677397#Comment_1677397
If your hex: undying is countered in 60s, you're either very unlucky or blind af. It shows you the survivors aura when they try to break it.
You know I was on both the giving and receiving end of that combo and its far harder to defend then it may sound given that if they stick to cleansing the totem the aura reveal doesn't stay so you'd only have a few seconds into them touching the totem to see them cleansing the totems.
So most survivors(Myself included) wait for the killer to either chase the obsession or hit someone then hop onto the totems when the killer is least likely to notice us and/or least likely to punish them for doing so.
So a lot of the time killers are given a choice to give up their chase and defend the totems and still risk losing them or continue the chase and pray to RNG that undying doesn't go first(Which is a 50/50 chance).
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Ah the strongest killer meta that can be completely countered in 60 seconds and only works on hyper mobile killers who totally need the help anyways. Totally makes slower killers more viable.
Its not like slower killers are being nerfed in the PTB due to the lowered Pop duration or anything.
Its also not like we aren't in one of the most gen rush heavy survivor meta yet which further makes slower killers less viable.
Nope everything is fine and dandy on the killer side...
I am really having hard to keep up the sarcasm right now while trying to describe the current meta.
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@gatsby said:
It seems like most Killers don’t like good old fashioned looping anymore. They’ll leave you at the drop of a hat if you’re playing good and camp you like crazy if they can tell you’re playing bad.
Killers with anti-loop spam that stuff so hard it’s like they’re allergic to looping normally. Huntress, Doctor, Pyramid, Freddy and Billy players will go around and around for ages trying to use their power, when they could’ve just looped the standard way, ate the pallet and moved on. It’s actually crazy.
Are most Killers unconfident and rusty with their traditional looping now or what?
Games end too fast right now due to the gen rush meta.
Killers will play to win and extending loops is how you lose.
Killers got to start "Applying Pressure" after all by cutting chases short or else the survivor mains will mock and TBag them for not "Applying Pressure".
You got what you'd want aren't you happy now?
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I feel like not only broken keys should look different but also have a faint glow of their rarity only while in the lobby.
This would make it easier for everyone to tell pregame who has a key and of what kind but it doesn't effect their ability to hide in game.
So broken keys would glow green.
Dull keys would glow purple.
Skeleton keys would glow pink/red.
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@Demonl3y said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1677160#Comment_1677160
No offense but no one should listen to true tho..
For as much as some people may hate him he is often right about things...
Edit: I am also not saying to take what the fog whisperer's word as law but to just consider it which the developers have never shown any signs of doing.
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They have tried with the fog whisperer program but the developers ALWAYS IGNORE what people like Otz or Tru say.
The developers really just don't care about most of the community's opinions even the people who they put into a program for them to listen too is the issue.
A lot of the problem perks that have been added into the game the fog whisperers warned the devs about their issues like old MoM but the devs completely ignored them and ended up with egg on their faces.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Don't "devout points" kind of not matter at all?
Try telling that to people who were doing the killer path on the final tier of the now recently closed rift.
You had to get 3 iri devout emblems and a single DC meant you can't get it that game(Unless they DC after the 3rd death hook).
That challenge was the gate keeper for the killer's final tier path so people who wanted to do the killer path had to do it or do survivor challenges instead.
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Trust me when I say pre addon changes billy was even worse.
Due to having no pink addons in the past ALL pink slots were ebony moris which is why billies were known for using them so much because he got them 3 times as often as the others.
PS. If you think that's bad my un-prestiged level 44 blight had 14 ebony moris.
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Reading this thread makes me realize that people here cant' tell that this is a "Loss Less" addon in the same vain NOED is a "Loss Less" perk.
Also having a addon cripple your normal CP is devastating which survivors will quickly figure out if your using it and just delay gen pops to make you lose a lot of your CP time from this addon which is a "Lose More" mechanic.
So it lets you "Loss Less" by gimping your normal game winning ability making you "Lose More" if multiple gens pop at the same time while making the plague who already has too much counter-play have more counter-play.
Its badly made either way you look at it but its far from powerful trust me...
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@PigMainClaudette said:
They said that BEFORE everyone started consistently tunnelling and DS/UB became the meta thing.
Not overly while unbreakable's use has increased DS usage from all forms of media on the game I(And many others) have seen has remained the same.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1674452#Comment_1674452
That Idk but I wonder if they just lied to us about the usage of X perks or they really don't play the game the same way we all do.
The developers as far as I know have NEVER shown the perk use statistics at all for survivors so they very well could have been lying.
They also have never said HOW survivor perks are calculated.
Is it based off of if the perk is in the game at all(Meaning 4 DSes count as one)?
Is it based off of how many time that perk appears(4 DS count as four)?
Does it only count the DIFFERENT players using it(4 players using 4 DS count but only once no matter how many games they play)?
Each of these gives a different answer but the developers refuse to even tell us which(If they even use any of these methods) they count for survivor perk usage rates let alone the number itself.
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@JacobD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/197173/blights-biggest-issue
Its definitely one of his flaws his other 2 major faults being not able to collide with certain objects like cars and some trees, and the last being his insanely low fov that seems very out of place
Didn't Tru show that the blight even when slumped over is slightly taller then Adam Francis and whose heads are roughly at the same height as each other.
But the camera on the blight is below Adam's waist despite said character's model's faces being at the same height.
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Try practicing the hag within the first 10 games of unlocking her only to run into a 4 man swf with 1 OoO, 2 sabo, 2 unbreakables, 2 flashlights, and all 4 having DS plus they used an ornmand map offering.
They were even trying to talk down to me telling me how to play killer(While having no idea how to play hag at all) while they are going full "Wannabee Comp Squad".
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I would like to see what the developers do with the idea of a "Failed" entity made artificial killer/survivor chapter.
What kinds of monstrosities would the entity try to make for both and what kinds of perks would they have.
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I'd say the nurse in additions to what others have said given her skin is turning greenish gray from what seems to be necrosis.
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The TLDR on these discussions are always going to be:
Its been tried and abused too badly so it had to be removed.
Or.
It would be abused badly and removed.
Camping is not going away just due to the fundamental design of the game's hook system makes any anti camping measures either FAR FAR FAR too abuse-able or not abuse-able but completely useless like Camaraderie.
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Soul guard is a problematic perk due to how hard it counters hexes...
What keeps soul guard from being problematic is most hex perks suck and there's no guarantee that there even will be a hex perk in the game.
Soul Guard just isn't a well designed perk but its going to be ignored until we get ENOUGH better hex perks to were they are more reliably seen and that your going to have more then 1 curse up at once(Even in undying games I have been on both sides were undying and ruin go within the first 2 mins of the game).
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@CaffeineMochaFrappe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1668814#Comment_1668814
But then again, this can only happens when you tunnel .-. Though I agree that it's one of the best perks in the game, since many killers love tunneling (at least in my matches when I play survivor).
You clearly haven't played killer a lot or watched any streamer nor the recent tournament if you think that's true.
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If your complaining about huntress'(Or clown's) exhaustion addon then you rely on Dead Hard FAR TOO MUCH.
Remember this is coming from a persons whose main survivor is david and my main Exhaustion perk is Dead Hard.
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@CaffeineMochaFrappe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1668232#Comment_1668232
Um, I'm not really sure about that lose/lose situation. I'm trying to be neutral here, no offense, but try to look at it this way: DS and Unbreakable fill 2 slots of perks, from the total of 4. I believe we all agree that each slot is very valuable. When you don't tunnel, those 2 slots will completely be wasted, and it's actually a big lost for those who use it, don't you think?
Costing 2 slots is not overly costly when it:
Killers can't pick you up after DS so they have to leave you slugged no matter how aggressively you played with your DS' 60 seconds.
A single DS(5 seconds) + the extra chase(Lets just say the average is 30 due to distance and average kill) if all 4 survivors are up and working is 35 seconds total 35 X 3 =105 seconds worth of gen time which is about 131.25% generator progress gained by one DS
Killers can't slug you with Unbreakable. While its one time use it can outright win you games for reasons I don't need to state.
DS is one of the best gen rush perks in the game along with Unbreakable as they both reduce the natural game slowdown the killer's pressure would normally apply.
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Moon walker:
Down a survivor who you have been walking backwards at for at least 5 within 5 seconds of facing that survivor.
The master plan:
Have 2 survivor step into bear traps within 10 seconds of each other.
Palletrarian:
Break at least 10 separate pallets and/or breakable walls.
This must be done in a single trial.
Welcome to pallet city:
Have as a team drop 12 pallets.
This must be done in a single trail.
Wait that's it?:
Have the killer quit while chasing you or within 30 seconds of the chase ending.
Out of chances:
End a trail with no more then 1 survivor living while the survivor team has had 8 or more of any combination of these perks:
Decisive strike, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, Soul Guard.
Defective light:
Have the killer evade your flashlight 3 times while carrying a survivor.
This must be done in a single trail.
Pity party:
As the killer carry the last survivor have them break out of your hands, let them pallet stun you 3 times, let them finish 1 generator or open a chest while your looking at them and exit the trail.
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@azame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1668205#Comment_1668205
This exactly. People act like DS unbreakable became meta for no reason. It quite litterally was the killer players who influenced the meta.
Funny how people keep on saying this...
People said the gen rush meta was because of the nurse:
The Nurse got nerfed and the meta didn't change.
People THEN said the gen rush meta was because of the spirit and her prayer beads:
The spirit an her prayer beads got nerfed and the meta didn't change.
People THEN SAID AGAIN said the gen rush meta was because of billy and his instant saw:
Billy and instant saw got nerfed and the meta didn't change.
Notice a pattern?
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If survivors are going all out with a key + map you have no reason to hold back at all.
Also if they complain about you going all out when they are going all out then they are hypocrites whose opinions should be ignored.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
This is also why survivors get a global notification that you’ve teleported. A demo player is meant to take advantage of that info to trick survivors into closing portals you have intentionally set up as a red herring.
Which doesn't work because unless demo has traveled to a portal survivors can't see nor close them.
Aka you can't set red herrings because you'd have to use it first kinda defeating the point of being a red herring.
Also demo not being able to override old portals means that going for red herrings(Somehow) and they get ignored then your stuck with a lot of dead portals and next to no map mobility despite your long set up.
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@Heartbound said:
You guys know she starts with corrupt pools available to her now, right?
Yes and it doesn't help when it can frequently spawn in a deadzone corner on Ormond(or any large map) that has no generators anywhere near it.
The pool's positions and the fact that the plague doesn't have mobility to reach them heavily limit her ability to get and use Corrupt Purge.
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@Yords said:
Ask me for whatever knowledge you need since I have gotten bored of scrolling through the forums and seeing one too many "Undying + Ruin combo OP plz nerf" articles hehe. You can get specific or detailed, just go ahead ask me questions like "How do I loop the killer properly?" or "How do I play this killer well?".
There's a specific part of the forums called "Ask the Community" for these questions:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/categories/ask-a-question
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1668232#Comment_1668232
I don't think that people would have really found it without being forced towards it, or at least it wouldn't be so prevalent now.
Trust me people would find it no matter what and all it did take was streamers winning with it for everyone who wants to win to bandwagon it.
Any combo as strong as DS/Unbreakable in a PvP game like DbD would be run as meta no matter what.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
That sort of killer mentality is EXACTLY why I made that thread saying how we each have 4 objectives.
There is so much more to this game than kills and escapes.
If it weren't for people like them, DS wouldn't be so popular. We then wouldn't have skugging on response to DS, leading to a surge in Unbreakable use. We brought the current meta upon ourselves.
I am not trying to justify what the legion did(They're insanely entitled) but:
Let not kind ourselves DS/Unbreakable would still be as prevalent even without people like this because its an insanely strong perk combo that forces killers into "Lose/Lose" situations.
A lot of people play to win and DS/Unbreakable is the best perk combo for survivors when it comes down to helping you win games.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1668155#Comment_1668155
Well tbh, her only counter play are loops assuming all 4 survivors are smart enough to not cleanse. Regardless, my point still stands. She's a boring killer to play against.
I know and agree I was just pointing out that it isn't the lack of counter-play but the killer having far too much counter-play as she is literally just an M1 killer who can be looped forever if no one cleanses.
Her power's counter-play is so extreme she doesn't ultimately have one unless the survivors gives it to her.
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@Mazoobi said:
In my opinion, I just find the Plague a boring killer to play against. Its literally a broken/injured simulator against her. Most people don't cleanse (for obv. reasons) and I rather play against Legion because at least they have a decent amount of counter-play instead of just coughing and vomiting every second. Though I wouldn't consider her an OP or broken character, I'd rather classify her as a boring one that's all. I really do like her backstory and lore though which is a shame because matches with her are just so boring, but that's my opinion though.
This is very ironic given that its the exact OPPOSITE issue people have with spirit.
She has so much counter-play but none of it is interesting so she ends up not doing anything since survivors dictate her power too much so she can't realistically do much in game.
Also he cant' be overly threatening even when survivors do allow her to do anything due to it being neutered by the survivors who'd only cleanse in areas where she can't ever truly make good use her power in.
Despite you saying she has very little counter-play your argument is ultimately she has too much counter-play to be interesting to play against.
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They probably won't given that they haven't fixed the hag's camera position since she was released.
The blight is as tall if not slightly taller then most survivors but his camera is slightly shorter then Adam's waist if I am remembering Tru showing off how bad it was.
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@azame said:
I feel like I'm at an incredible disadvantage when solo survivor. I uploaded a video where I ran the killer for 5 minutes and only a single gen was done. Also in this game a survivor had disconnected. Solo survivor is just unfun.
I'm never matched up with players that are good or as good as me. It's always players who urban around the map or cant hold a chase. When I'm hooked I've been left to die or left to get second state.
Out of all the swf post solo is not talked about enough. Solo is very bad right now. It's so bad that it encourages swf play because you rather not play with bad randoms.
Just a short rant solo is just bothering me lately.
I have said it before and I'll say it again:
One of the reasons why solo sucks is that the devs have been making killers and SWF go in a perpetual arms race with solos' being the casualties.
The more killers are nerfed and problematic survivor perks are left unchecked the harder killers will have to try to win against SWF.
However because killers can't know who is SWF unless they check steam profiles killers which most platforms can't(Killers also can't check if the profiles are private). Then the killers have to assume its SWF every game to go all out because if they don't they get stomped by SWF.
The Devs random nerfs to killers and lack of nerfs to the problematic survivor perks have lead to a situation where killers are missible and stressed while solo survivors get slaughtered by the killers ever increasing viciousness to win against SWF.
So the random killer nerfs the devs do only hurt BOTH solos and killers while leaving the problematic parts of SWF which caused it untouched.
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Given that the build that you suggests is self defeating I'd say no.
As Dying Light and Coulrophobia/Sloppy don't mix as the obsession only gets a -17%(-50+33=-17) for coulrophobia and still has a +13%(-20+33=13) healing speed against sloppy alone due to how dying light's heal speed up works(Its additive and applied last).
Also thana's in theory extra 4% after this patch if everyone is injured isn't going to matter as because of dying light itself your almost never going to have more then 2 people injured at any given time or maybe even less.
Halfing thana's effect is a good way of realistically showing its effect over the course of a game as your not not going to be keeping everyone permanently injured and making it about ~1.5 people effected on average if dying light is in play due to the healing speed up.
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Competitive SWF is so easy and they are so used to winning every game that they act toxic whenever they lose.
Its pretty obvious just by looking at the builds in end game if they are competitive(Or at least trying to be) SWF as they all will usually have DS/Unbreakable/Sprint Burst or Dead Hard and at least 2 of them will have BT who are the designated Saviors.
They aren't as uncommon as people think as according to the VERY OLD statistics(So it could be higher or low we don't know) SWF groups make up ~47% of the game's total player base so running into a SWF group of at least 2 or more will happen about every ~75% or more of games you play as killer.
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I can't blame anyone who wants to win for running DS/Unbreakable as it does help you win by forcing killers into "Lose/Lose" situations due to how badly designed the perk is.
I find it mind-numbingly boring to play with along with it teaching people to do a lot of dumb things because it will reward them for doing it.Like jumping into lockers mid chase or T bagging while its up because the killer can't do anything to you.
I do believe its impart responsible for why there are so many potato survivors in higher ranks as the combo can carry you to red ranks.
"You don't need to outplay the killer when you can out perked the killer."
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Given that most people can't even agree upon what tunneling/camping even are I'd say most of their claims tend to be...Less then reliable.
Edit: I still see people claim killers face camp when they were getting moried by a 5 stack devour hope...