VomitMommy
VomitMommy
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759752#Comment_3759752
if self-care is allowed to exist as infinity slow healing, COH should exist as well. their poorly constructed killer changes on killer side is a killer issue.
if self-care is allowed to exist as infinity slow healing, COH should exist as well.
No, there is difference if it works on 1 survivor or on whole group. That would be We'll make it, Self-care and Empathy for all survivors in one perk…. Just no
You would have any survivor running there and just start healing, everyone else can see them and just go there finish it faster if they are nearby or keep working on gens and let them self-heal.This would be stronger than prenerfed version.
their poorly constructed killer changes on killer side is a killer issue
There is definetly no need to make those issues even worse.
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Cleanse the trap, when she can see you crouching there…
Wow, what an idea. You just didn't know what that addon does, talked without a knowledge and just continue same path… -
Single survivor can't unhook, two survivors can. Still worse than Bubba….
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It was definetly a nerf, so you had option to remove it without triggering, like next to a hooked survivors.
But most traps you can just abuse holding S and she won't get a hit on you from triggering the trap unless she has specific addons.
Hag has only two modes, either you stomp the survivors, because they don't know what to do, or you going to have really bad experience. -
@Jamaya_Y said:
So? Just crouch. She's no different from Skull Merchant's drones.
Seems like you don't know what that addon does…
Mint Rag:- Press the Active Ability button to teleport to any untripped Phantasm Trap anywhere in the environment.
Mint Rag has a cool-down of 10 seconds.
Good luck crouching this one.
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It's still very good perk for SWF. It's bad just for soloQ.
Giving it self-care with same speed doesn't make sense, you would again give survivors additional perks and infinite self-healing.
If you would want that for whatever reason, then it should be definetly slower than self-care.
Buffing circle of healing is kinda an issue after Sloppy and STBFL nerfs, there is not really a good way of countering mass healing now. -
I would definetly keep combination of screaming and aura reading on Thwack.
There is not really a reason for hooking requirment, when it is connected to limited resource already. Just give it cooldown like 45 seconds and you are good to go. -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759566#Comment_3759566
mangled is kinda useless when it's time limited now, changing % is kinda pointless. You can as well replace all of them with broken.
i can agree with that. They are scheduled to rework freddy. Originally they nerfed thanatophobia and freddy specifically. He used to be about this concept. We shall see how they change freddy. -action speed is weakest it has ever been for killer. Freddy has been dead for like 2 years. Sloppy butcher was last remaining perk standing. All weakened to the ground.
this is not soloQ improvement, that's completely rebalancing whole killer vs survivor.
if we focus on aura for survivor and better base-kit game-delay for killer. we are taking baby steps. bodyblocking and health-states is different angle to talk about for killer & survivor. overall my position on bodyblocking is that bodyblocking at base-kit shouldn't be good. if a survivor want to bodyblock safely, they should use an exhaustion perk to gain distance. For example 99% a sprint burst, taking a hit then use sprint burst post-hit or using small sprint to vault a window to Lithe. People have different opinion on exhaustion perks which is another whole can of worms to talk about… as some may view them as too strong especially if you talk to @Blueberry for example.
bodyblocking at base-kit shouldn't be good
Well, right now bodyblocking is definitely strong thing to do against M1 killers at least. But it can be difficult to coordinate even with SWF.
Bond makes it equally as effective, but way easier.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759549#Comment_3759549
Either way, just show where other survivors are for everyone, and even killers with range of 4-8meter around hooked person, go wild and do everything
Or go calm and do nothing.... Breaking everything for several months is not way to go on my opinion.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759552#Comment_3759552
but swf already gets "win-more" effect at good level. why does soloq need run perk taxes to be as good as swf? a top-level soloq player should have same chances to win as top-level swf. this makes survivor much easier to balance.
Funny you want something basekit and counterplay against the issue it creates it on perks...
In my ideal version, i would attempt to make m1 killer less perk dependant by giving them -20% successful cooldown and a reduction of speed boost to 1.5 from 1.8. STBFL would be weakened to 2% per stack.
One could argue that perhaps healing would not be as enjoyable with less speed, so i am suggesting that to reduce healing time from 16→12. In order to keep anti-heal perks somewhat relevant, mangled would be increased from 20→30% which is 15 second heal and thanatophobia would apply to healing at 5%. at max stacks, it would be 21.25 second heal which a little bit more then current mangled.
I don't know about mangled timer. i don't think this is good change i am not going to judge. this is sort of different topic altogether.
If perks are fine as "fix" then just use Bond if you want it so much.
I do use it. I just don't think it is healthy for soloq to be running Bond and Window of opportunity in the meta because it restricts any perk variety for 80% of soloq player-base. It is same thing with killers and the game-delay perks. there should be better base-kit game-delay for killer so that killer rely less on them. I am completely fine if they even weaken slowdown perks by like halving their numbers. the thing is, i don't think they need weaken slowdown perks because survivor technically have game progression perks.
Your changes completely throw any balancing out of the window. And this is not soloQ improvement, that's completely rebalancing whole killer vs survivor.
And mangled is kinda useless when it's time limited now, changing % is kinda pointless. You can as well replace all of them with broken.
So if you want to nerf bodyblocking with basekit bond, you can give killers basekit Forced Penance. That will do the trick without affecting general gameplay.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759517#Comment_3759517
high-level swf already bodyblock without needing it. it is more that soloq becomes able to bodyblock. My position on bodyblocking remains the same. decreasing the cooldown of basic attacks+reducing survivor sprint burst is my suggest change to lowering the potency of that.
if healing become too weak, than maybe make healing 12 seconds but slightly buff anti-heal perks like mangled being 30% instead of 20%. Maybe they'll revert thanatophobia to apply towards healing like before.
If this is your example you want improved, than kindred is doing way better job at this anyway. You know, survivor on hook....
that is just an example. there is many other cases of survivor playing poorly due to lack of aura.
high-level swf already bodyblock without needing it.
But you were talking about medium level, which is not true for them. Bond is going to make them on same level without skill needed.
anti-heal perks like mangled being 30% instead of 20%.
Funny you want something basekit and counterplay against the issue it creates it on perks...
If perks are fine as "fix" then just use Bond if you want it so much.
there is many other cases of survivor playing poorly due to lack of aura.
Like what? Kindred is doing way better job at it in all situations and it does it only if needed.
If killer doesn't have anyone hooked, then it's not really good idea to give basekit kinda "win more" effect.
Current balance SWF and killer doesn't need to change in my opinion. Bond definitely changes it a lot.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759514#Comment_3759514
But the point is It works far better for soloq than SWF
Kindred effect is more important for soloQ than SWF way more in my opinion, while effect is not that oppressive for killers, because you can't really abuse it that well.
When someone is hooked, that's when I need help most as soloQ and global aura reading is clearly superior.
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@YayC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759103#Comment_3759103
Depends how they implement it. If you go into the pod at the same speed but holding it will begin to track them as you're going into it it'll be fine.
If it's setup like PUBG where the hold interaction is delayed compared to the press interaction it could be a problem.
Well, they nerfed duration it takes to target a survivor along this system. They could that bonus duration transfer to holding button, so people who want it control manually won't be affected.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759497#Comment_3759497
i don't really use bond in swf. the perk will help soloq more than swf especially at medium levels. At medium level of survivor, saving a survivor from the hook in the end game vs m1 killer is so poor. it is ridiculously for how many people die in end game because of their poor coordination.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759498#Comment_3759498
a big part of why soloq does gens so slowly is because they don't loop in correct places when other people are doing gens. it gives killer free generator defence. I also think that healing is not nearly as optimized in soloq as it could be creating unnecessary attachment to med-kits.
i don't really use bond in swf.
Because they don't need it, but it is going to allow way easier gameplay for them.
the perk will help soloq more than swf especially at medium levels
Medium level SWF doesn't have that good call outs anyway. Everything it improves for soloQ also works for SWF, but body blocking is going to be used by SWF way more than SoloQ can ever dream of.
saving a survivor from the hook in the end game vs m1 killer is so poor. it is ridiculously for how many people die in end game because of their poor coordination.
If this is your example you want improved, than kindred is doing way better job at this anyway. You know, survivor on hook....
You could see who is going for save, who is still on gate, easier finding a location for healing.
For soloQ that's better than bond can ever be. While those results are really easy for SWF.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759497#Comment_3759497
I don't know, not running into gens with ongoing repair seems to be stronger than anything SWF can pull off
But that is going to work for SWF too.
Even above average SWF usually calls out only generic location of killer, or where is chase headed.
Bond creates an accuracy than almost no group is able to achieve and because of limited range, the generic location is suddenly more than enough for everyone.
SoloQ doesn't have that, for them global aura reading of survivors when someone is hooked is way better while effect is not that much important for SWF.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759486#Comment_3759486
It would be stronger and buff for SWF but frankly I don't care, just increase every killer speed by 0.1m/s if it was too much
Anything that makes difference between SWF and soloq smaller is good
Bond basekit doesn't really make it smaller. Effect of bond is going to be used better by SWF than soloQ.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Instadrop was okay because it basically didn't exist. The game bars you from summoning your guard unless you walk backwards for like a whole second, otherwise you're too close to the pallet or wall, and it just doesn't let you summon them. How is nobody factoring this in?
Another thing I don't like that was changed that nobody is talking about is Jailer and Carnifex getting their chase times swapped. Instead of the potential time waste being spread across Carnifex (with his chase) and Jailer (with his patrol), now Jailer has both. So Carnifex is basically only used for breaking now. And Jailer potentially wastes the most of your own time now, because he patrols the longest and chases the longest. So he can patrol almost til the end of his timer, spots someone and chases them, and until that chase ends, you don't have your ability to chase someone else. And I don't know the numbers, but that would be like what, 1 - 1.5 minutes?
Knight is just a nothing killer.
Jailer has patrol duration fo 24 seconds with maximum hunting duration of 36 seconds.
So in theory you can lose your power for up to a minute with Jailer, which is kinda big deal when you won't be able to use Carnifex in chase.
Ability to summon guard at any time made him feel way better, but I guess only survivor favored bug can be called a feature with Knight...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759394#Comment_3759394
not really. icon give incomplete information. Like i know someone is getting chased by icon but which pallets are being broken? I'd like to know so i don't run into deadzones….. Bond base-kit would be better.
I think this is only team-game that doesn't show information about teammates. Like can you imagine playing league of legends without shared fog of war? Like you can only see your own fog of war/vision. not your teammates? that is what DBD is like.
I imagine that aura for survivor will show up because they'll eventually end up buffing so many killers to be at SWF-level that soloq will feel too bad to play because too many killer got buffed for SWF but thrash soloq due to self-imposed poor play.
Bond base-kit would be better.
No, it would be stronger. That's different.
It would also be buff even for SWF, while kindred is not that big deal and it helps survivors only when killer has some pressure. Bond would allow super easy protection hits / headon for everyone whole game even if killer is struggling, which doesn't make sense to me.
Main focus of kindred is to not make multiple survivors / no survivor run for unhooking. That's rarely happens for SWF, but is regular experience in soloQ.
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@Neaxolotl said:
It should be basekit with killer aura, but range should be shorter
Definitely not, even with shorter aura you can see where killer is heading, so this create just another annoying counterplay so you can't never run directly where you want, because survivors can always prerun/hide, if it's their direction.
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@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3759145#Comment_3759145
You can, but the killer can easily turn around and go hook somewhere else. Just stating the obvious
And my other comment were just an example. Either agree or disagree. Or come with a better example.
Hold yourself to the case. Don't "someone likes to get bleed out here..." It has nothing to do with his case that I agree with, and came with a suggestion of.
I don't speak to you to comment. It's either the person who made this case, or a Dev/crew/manager.
Yes either like or dislike my thoughts. I know why the 99% sabbo were removed. There were less hooks at that time, and people abused it.
Now we have so much more hooks. Yes some maps have less than others.
Or the Devs can look at all hook spawns and thibk about it shoukd be there or not. Death hooks are coming back.
Hold yourself to the case. Don't "someone likes to get bleed out here..." It has nothing to do with his case that I agree with, and came with a suggestion of.
Of course it does, that's going to be an outcome of your bad idea.
Only thing you can do against sabo is to not hook them at all, why would you bother when there can be someone hiding with toolbox?
So whenever someone tries to sabo, I bleed them out.I don't speak to you to comment. It's either the person who made this case, or a Dev/crew/manager
Sorry to dissapoint you, but you are not that important. The OP and other members is best you get in most cases. So deal with it.
I know why the 99% sabbo were removed. There were less hooks at that time, and people abused it.
People abused it. Exactly and only thing you can do with this change is to abuse it again.
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@Nightram said:
It's not okay. I play both sides. And hooks are not at all balanced for killers and survivors. Killers will always find a hook.
If hooks will stay this way with the update. We should get back the sabbo 99% the hooks. I know that get's abused. But killers hooks are already too many.
Someone likes to get bleed out here…
You can already Sabo in front of killer without getting drowned.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758497#Comment_3758497
FIrst of all, can you calm down and converse normally or not? If not, I'll mute you and happily go about my day without wasting it on someone who is certainly not worth my time or energy. Like I mentioned all those burn mechanics because it was an umbrella mechanic that allowed all of them, did I state that they ALL required the same level of skill? No.
FIrst of all, can you calm down and converse normally or not?¨
That is the calm version…
I'm not even going to bother responding adequately
I just use your approach to any idea/opinion I found with no hope for middle ground. Why bother taking it seriously and give a constructive feedback, when there is no hope in doing it?
I'll mute you and happily go about my day without wasting it on someone who is certainly not worth my time or energy.
I can definetly live with that. Not like I would care if you didn't respond from start…
Like I mentioned all those burn mechanics because it was an umbrella mechanic that allowed all of them, did I state that they ALL required the same level of skill? No.
Did you state all but one of them required skill? No, you were trying to use single exception as a metric for whole mechanic.
You mentioned all of them in same style, where all of this was supposed to be in a sense of "bring skill expression back", no? Which is funny when it didn't need any skill for all of them except one.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758308#Comment_3758308
Their reason for it is the source material and the atmosphere it brings. From a balancing point she doesn‘t need it. I would like if they made it map wide or something like that.
For atmosphere you can just give it like 10 meters radius arouch each TV. That would work no?
Not really a need to force it on stealth killer.
Or make it simply global and every survivor is going to hear it whenever she is demanifested. Doesn't really matter that much for her stealth and you get even better atmosphere. -
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757344#Comment_3757344
I'm on the train into work and been pondering this more. I cant find your original post which has the rework that interested me the most. I found my own post that referenced the same idea though. For reference:
- Nerf: Survivor HUD marked red when a survivor is scanned and on her radar to help survivors track her speed boosts easier.
- Nerf: Broken removed to encourage attempts from survivors to heal. This creates more macro decision making for SM to switch chase to a scanned
survivor while they are still injured. Also allows survivors to decide to deliberately eat a scan to remove their stacks while SM is occupied
to try and mend/heal. - Nerf: Slow on clawtrap scan reduced to 5% hindered (was 10%) to reduce its obnoxiousness but still cause slow vaults to aid her chase.
- Buff: Speed standardised. While any survivor is scanned SM gains 3% bonus movement speed. While any survivor is claw trapped SM instead gains 6% movement speed.
- Nerf: Drones that are disabled cannot be recalled.
- Buff: Auras of disabled drones marked in red.
- Buff: Drones recovery reduced to 35s.
Is there any part of Pixel's rework you'd consider pirating and adding to this?
Drones in stealth mode do not rotate
I want that yellow addon to work this way....
The stealth drone being stationary is interesting for basekit, makes her a more set up and trap killer, but I agree with you this makes sense to be the new way the yellow add-on works,a nd it avoid the lock off a loop at base issue.
Skull Merchant now gains stealth when recalling a non-disabled drone
It would make it less reliable. Simply because you don't have direct feedback of drone is disabled or not. Yes, you can notice drone getting disarmed and it gets slightly higher, but that's just impossible to track on most maps when you need undetectable fast.
Undetectable on drone placement is way more reliable in my opinion.
I think there is potential in this idea with regards to your rework. It may be that her stealth needs a numbers boost (maybe 10 or 12s?), but this does raise a resources management level of play that makes her more interesting. It increases her skill ceiling, make disabling a drone more profitable for survivors, but allows you to set up long chains of undetectable at a cost... all with a then implied "re-setup" time.
This also gives her reason to recall the drones she has available on the map beyond wanting one for a loop.
It would also remove a fair bit of the "Just push the button" stigma around her, as she doesn't get to hide her red light whole plopping a drone at a tile, which would help her image.
When scanned with a claw trap, <guff>shocks a survivor, expending one claw trap charge.
If we abandon the shock idea, the part of this that is interesting to me is the claw trap charge... The claw trap lasts for 45s, which means each power circle on the HUD lasts 15s...
What if each time you are hit by a beam, the claw traps zaps you and you get hindered as per your rework above... in doing so you expend the remainder of your current Clawtrap charge? This basically gives Skull Merchant 3 zaps to capitalise on a clawtrap, or 2 or less if the survivor times their Zap well.
I'd probably add some idea that the clawtrap will only "Zap" a survivor in chase, but this opens up additional counterplay at tiles, where it might actually be beneficial to stay at certain stronger tiles to get rid of the clawtrap via zaps, giving skilled players more methods of winning the exchange vs. SM.
I'd also consider a mechanic where if a claw trapped survivor heals in full, getting scanned again reinsurer them with the same Zap, but also uses a charge.
Any of these idea you'd consider pulling in/tweaking?
This is my last comment about it I think:
@VomitMommy said:
Broken is literally first thing I would remove and I am mostly Skull merchant main.
I will prefer survivors healing over working on gen any day…
Skull merchant is simply noob stomping killer and broken has part on it. New survivors are not able to play injured.
So by removing broken, survivors will still get punished, if they don't pay attention outside of chase → get injured, but they have chance to recover from it at least.
It's some time since I wrote my suggestion, so here we go again:- remove broken → always mending
- disarmed drone aura is diplayed red
- drone is disarmed for 35 seconds (was 45)
- drone can't be recalled while disarmed
- reduce hindered to 5%
- rework haste
I would make haste work based on only two stacks, each giving 3%.
3% is for claw trap duration and 3% is when any survivor got detected by laser. That would make it easier to track for survivors, her average haste will be slightly increased, but maximum decreased → less noob stomping again.
Disarming drone would become trade off again → completely disable drone in trade for information. It would actually make it viable to disarm mid chase, which is just too funny for me. Right now merchant can just instantly recall her drone, so there is no point in doing it.
I rarely use Hindered, so I don't care that much about it, but there just should be something, so drones can't be completely ignored by injured survivors.One thing that I would add is cooldown (like 4-5 seconds) on changing rotation direction of drone. So you can't spam it on survivor.
About this post:The stealth drone being stationary is interesting for basekit, makes her a more set up and trap killer
Thing is it makes getting tagged in most loops near impossible to dodge unless you always hold W. Right now you can play around rotating drone by standing still / crouching, running in rotating direction. It can be difficult, but definetly possible.
If laser is static, I can put it in middle of loop, or entrance. Then just run in a way to push survivor into it. Because laser is stationary, it's going to take longer to dodge it by crouching, which on most loops means either you run away asap or I get a hit.
I think it should be fine on addon, but not really basekit.It would also remove a fair bit of the "Just push the button" stigma around her, as she doesn't get to hide her red light whole plopping a drone at a tile, which would help her image.
With my changes, where you would be able to see disabled drones it might be fine with increased duration.
Issue is you can't really increase it, because it will create infinite stealth again. It's going to be annoying to do, because you need to place the drone, recall it and repeat. Then when I get near survivor I just start dropping them as usual, so later I can start recalling them.
You would basically have to put cooldown on recalling and that just felt terrible on PTB. At least for me….What if each time you are hit by a beam, the claw traps zaps you and you get hindered as per your rework above... in doing so you expend the remainder of your current Clawtrap charge? This basically gives Skull Merchant 3 zaps to capitalise on a clawtrap, or 2 or less if the survivor times their Zap well.
Not sure if I understand this correctly.
Zap basically means you still get only hindered, but it takes part of battery away?
Thing is it would be kinda unintuitive for me to work only in chase… But making it work outside of chase is going to let survivors remove their claw trap super fast, which I don't think is needed if we remove broken.
With this thing I would definetly keep higher Hinder, I don't think it is that strong to get double nerfed. -
@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758312#Comment_3758312
To quote yourself to you:
Not sure if burning was really a skill expression. You need around a 1 brain cell to do it…
I can agree it could have stay on Nurse. That was actually difficult to do and something you could call a skill.You're quite literally contradicting yourself. So I'm not even going to bother responding adequately to someone who acts "higher than thou" and then in the very next sentence contradicts themselves. If you have anything useful to add to the convo and the other points I made I'll happily read that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758330#Comment_3758330
Exactly, the map layouts and the way they're nowadays filled up consist of more pallets and since WoO became meta for a hot minute newer survivors only do hold W, instead of learning to preserve resources, mindgame, and actually loop. But the problematic thing with that is that the newer killer powers also push the players into that playstyle which inevitably leads to more frustration on killer-side, because they feel like they can never catch or not on time, or simply resort to using gen-slowdown perks. This forces survivors to use more gen-perks/toolboxes and the cycle repeats itself and games become sweatier, convoluted and boring.
Of all those burn mechanics, Nurse burning was only where you needed some skill. All other were brainless. That's why I wouldn't mind that specific burning mechanic to stay.
You want to tell me I needed skill to burn Wraith? You needed maybe half brain cell to do it with flashbang.
Crow, or Hag trap? Oh no, so difficult to aim at stationary target…
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Not sure if burning was really a skill expression. You need around a 1 brain cell to do it…
I can agree it could have stay on Nurse. That was actually difficult to do and something you could call a skill.
Remove from Hag was in favor of survivors in the end.
Wraith definetly didn't need it.
Not sure about Artist… She is decent, but not really popular already and burning definetly wouldn't help. -
I mean, does Onryo really need a lullaby at all?
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758202#Comment_3758202
Or put another way, we might have a better game.
Like:
A removal or rework of map offerings.
Problematic perks being identified and addressed sooner.
Over-buffed Killers getting a justified nerf.
A functional MMR system.
A means for Survivors to actually practice looping, just like the custom game mode for Killers.
An apparent lack of curiosity as to why players DC will do the game no good in the long run. Of course, I don't know if this is truly the case at BHVR or if this is just my impression, but it sure feels like there's a lack of interest sometimes.
A removal or rework of map offerings.
I feel like that's a nerf for survivors…
Problematic perks being identified and addressed sooner.
You mean like CoH was over a year, MFT 6 months or something like that? That's not really us vs them. That's a fact. Updates are simply slow..
Over-buffed Killers getting a justified nerf.
Killers are not getting nerfs? That's new to me.
A functional MMR system
We had that, it was terrible. Please no…
A means for Survivors to actually practice looping, just like the custom game mode for Killers.
Hell yeah and better tutorial. We be really good to have some quick tutorials of how actually each killer power works and what are limits → Vecna/Nemesis/Hag/Skully and how crouching works against them etc., so new survivors have at least some basic knowledge how to play against each killer.
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@devoutartist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757360#Comment_3757360
no role should be a power role it should be a game where both sides have in and out where the game can strive to be a better game for everyone
Depends what you want from the game, if you want such balanced game, then go play some competitive game like Dota, or CS.
DBD is far from that, if you want balanced competitive DBD, then you have to go play custom games with custom rule set. Funny is survivors are usually more limited than killers in competitive DBD. So you wouldn't like even that…
It doesn't make sense for asymmetrical game, where it's 1v4. To reach balance of 50% in reality it's going to be in favor of survivors, because you have to expect 1/2 survivors are going to be bad and when you get 4 actually good survivors most killers are simply without a chance.What is most balanced we ever had are queue times (game overall too in my opinion). I don't mind playing either side, doesn't matter the BP bonus, queue times are good. That's what matters to me, I don't want to wait 6+ minute on your "balanced" 10 minutes game, that's simply huge waste of my time.
I am all for soloQ QoL features, those are needed in my opinion. But base game buffs for survivors, or nerfs for killers? No -
@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758085#Comment_3758085
Actualy they dont play, they only be found by lethal and die in 2 sec, do yes its better if they can grind and learn with a system you can see like grades and see when you are doing a good or bad game with gain/loss rank.
You can create the system for yourself. Don't play with them until they are good enough. Boom, fixed.
No need to force your issue on everyone else. -
@Krogund said:
@ColdCobalt , @VomitMommy , @mizark3 , @Ohyakno , @cclain , @bjorksnas , @Halloulle , @Deathstroke , @Nightram , @BlightedDolphin
What about this?
When there are two Survivors Left…
- Both survivors gain the ability to recover from the dying state at a 100% speed.
- After recovering, they receive 10 seconds of endurance, to avoid immediate downing.
- If fewer than three generators have been completed, the remaining generators will be completed automatically, except for the five that are the furthest apart. This ensures the last two survivors need to complete only two more generators to power the gates.
- During this phase, if at least one generator has not had any progress for the last 10 seconds, the killer receives Killer Instinct on both survivors for 3 seconds.
When there is 1 survivor left, current rules apply.
This way it is ensured that the survivors still have a fair chance at escaping the trial. We avoid slugging for the 4k, we avoid survivors hiding until the other die (even with stealthy perks you can't hide from killer instinct).
You think you are leaving as 2 survivors with 2 gens left? Seems like lot of work for little effect
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@cclain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758004#Comment_3758004
I dont ask to be back in 2017 with the same old system.
I ask to linked the grades and mmr, also dont let group with to much distant rank play together , like all pvp game with a good mmrSo instead of getting them higher, you wouldn't be able to play with them at all... Wow, sooo much better
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Lol, you bring tombstone piece and try to complain survivors died too fast?
That's what happens when you skip 3 hook stages… who would have thought?
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I just want chat wheel...
From Vecna we know it's possible.
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Jeff
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This was always an "issue" even with old rank system.
If you put 1/2 rank 1 survivors, even if other two were rank 20 you were about to find someone on higher end.
But changing match making to find someone on lower end of the group is also not optimal, but for the killer.
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Yeah, kinda annoyed how bad it is for Deathslinger. It was kinda main perk to make him viable imo.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757629#Comment_3757629
I just like the concept of it. I wish the devs would intensify testing things with the help of PTBs, they only test when it's a new chapter or a mid-chapter.
I wish the devs would intensify testing things with the help of PTBs, they only test when it's a new chapter or a mid-chapter.
For sure
I just like the concept of it.
Yeah, but it wouldn't really work.
Like is that going to be "custom space" where you do 1v1 or current state of the map? If you got teleported outside, then it's very bad for setup killers.
Where would you start the chase? Shack without a pallet would kinda suck...
What could work is basically set all killers as 115% and disable the power, kinda like we had on Halloween (I think). That's basic Trapper version of 1v1. Probably turn off perks too.
Then tons of testing on the 1v1 map and get actual time needed to escape on average.
I really like to play 1v1 and wish it would be game mode... So this would be lot of fun for me, but it doesn't work with actual killers.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757600#Comment_3757600
It could be like a minute or so, nothing crazy.
Well, that's super easy to get against lot of killers. You think Hag is ever going to 4k? That would be impossible against healthy survivor.
Minute chase is not really difficult to get against most killers if you are healthy.
But if you increase it, then the survivor is not going to escape against chase oriented killers.
That is just going to make it a mess and always terrible for one side.
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It would be very difficult to last 2 minutes against many killers.
But if you lover it then on other hand it's going to be near impossible for killers like Hag to ever get 4k.
I would say current setup gives better chance to escape.
And if you want to "buff" two survivors and completely remove slugging, then I would definitely want to remove any option for stealth gameplay too for them. Then I am fine with it.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757596#Comment_3757596
They should rework the hatch mechanic entirely. Removing the hatch and instead making it like a fun last 1v1. Maybe in a different world or something? Like the ultimate test or whatever lol
I would guess you mean if you last X seconds you escape?
Issue is that you would have killers near impossible to win against and some super easy...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757493#Comment_3757493
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757505#Comment_3757505
I see what you're both saying, but the shock isn't triggered by the scan immediately, it's triggered by the Skull Merchant using her radar, and can only be triggered within a set time frame.
In the scenraios you describe, you've got a survivor claw trapped and now you block off a window or pallet with your stationary drone to ensure they hit it. You cannot neuroshock the survivor until they are scanned and when they are scanned you only have a set time frame you can shock them… if their input is buffered they pull the pallet or vault anyway before you can shock. Pallets are a little easier to for Skull Merchant, but vs. Windows you've got to account for input buffers.
If you counter rotate to get the survivor scanned and the survivor guess it while blocking off a route (such as shack), the survivor can eat the scan deliberately and continue around the loop counter to your roatation, now with a scouting drone instead of a stationary silent one. The shock is only available for a set duration so if the an now dodge the scout drone for the duration of the shock timer, they can still freely use the resource...
This whole time you as Skully have still be 4.6, and the survivor has still been 4...
I dunno, I just don't see the no option here, and that's excluding the idea that there are still mind games available to the survivor where they bait a shock running to window and running to pallet instead...
Haste + hindered is simply reliable yet not that oppressive.
Shocking is either going to be super oppressive or just useless (if you put limitations on it). I don't think there can be anything in between.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757344#Comment_3757344
the changes transpose her from clown to doctor killer with traps. doctor and clown have different type of skills required but doctor traps are easier to use then clown one.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RDGST3I1C86H/image.png
You get this problem where when any pallet is dropped, you just run around loop and survivor is forced to go through the scan which disables their ability to vault the pallet. In other words, there is no decision making between survivor vaulting pallet and running forward. It is just run forward for killer and survivor gets hit after X time.
With haste and hindered, the survivor can camp pallets and try to bait skull merchant into swing.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G47PB9K6M7AZ/image.png
On undropped pallet the problem is even worse because…. you put a drone on the pallet and the pallet is effectively blocked as if it was affected by hex:blood favor.
This doesn't raise skill-floor. it makes skill-floor as low as possible. there is like 0 ways to use drones poorly at loops with this design.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757161#Comment_3757161
twin is slugging killer. BVHR had no intention to buff slugging so their rework was going fail. In fact they want remove slugging entirely from killer which doesn't make any sense. They didn't even bother to remove 30 second cooldown on Victor hostage exploit on killer itself. This rework isn't any better. it would be just as bad.
Aren't you trying to argue with wrong person?
I said I am not a fan of shock mechanic...
I think those changes decrease her skill ceiling quite a lot overall, which may sound crazy for most players and she would probably be very miserable for survivors.
I think that aspect improved a lot compare to first version, so it's bad idea to make it worse again…
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757344#Comment_3757344
Removal will make survivors just holding W better against her and prerun is already very annoying for her.
This was my initial thought, though the changes to improve her lazer tagging, combined with the idea of her being a set up killer with reliably closing off common survivor paths does limit the ability to hold W, as there is risk of another drone lying in wait for you.
Making it so the drones don't rotate does allow you to pre-emptively close off paths you expect survivors to take, and rewards good early prediction, a bit like Hag. So I'm not convinced the Hold W would be that bad.
Scan immunity and deployment
I'm a little more open to this, cause the initial hit of the drone tag is missable… it doesn't become a stealth drone that just lops off the loop… her stealth drone lazer tag becomes jukable…but if you do hit it, there is potential for more reward, and it strikes me as avoid the initial hit makes for a more reward. Without her haste bonus and the incoming hindered, this doesn't appear as frustrating to me, especially as when scouting the drones are slower as easier to track for survivors, which is where a Skull Merchant actually using her rotation change starts to come into play.
There is the problem ofc that she does close off a loop path though… though Pixel's argument this is effectively 1/3 of an Artist crow is valid.
Shock on demand without slowdown would become really oppressive. With hindered you can still play the pallet as against Clown quite easily. Shock is going to lead to hits where there is simply nothing survivor can do about it.
This one is a concern to me however, because as you say, once you have the shocks… there is little you can do… but in the same breathe… the fact you got scanned while claw trapped was the mistake, and where the counterplay lies… the getting shocked itself is merely a formality for SM getting rewarded for lazer tagging you, or controlling you at the loop. Given all of that is harder, it seems like it might work?
It would make it less reliable. Simply because you don't have direct feedback of drone is disabled or not. Yes, you can notice drone getting disarmed and it gets slightly higher, but that's just impossible to track on most maps when you need undetectable fast.
This is true, I would add one of your suggestions to mark the drone so its clear it is disabled.
Not that I'm blindly supporting the idea mind you, but I see potential in this quasi trap/laser sniper focused Skull Merchant
the fact you got scanned while claw trapped was the mistake, and where the counterplay lies…
But in those changes you would make laser tagging way easier (laser doesn't move). I can just put laser into the loop on run to same side survivor is on. Survivor is simply going to be hit by it no matter what. I would argue that this decrease skill ceiling she has now.
Static laser makes laser tagging super easy to do and it's harder to avoid with crouching, because it's going to take longer when it won't go past you...
So is it really a mistake when you made it easier and faster to get compare to current version?
Survivors would also be more likely to run into it with removal of circle.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757429#Comment_3757429
And shadowstep is honestly broken when you can place it at anywhere
Every unique buildings will be unchasable nightmare
On many maps probably most broken spot to put boon would often be basement. If basement is in main building...
I am not even sure you would be able to hear it from above.
It would be definitely very annoying to deal with if it could be used over and over again.
Well as an item you would be able to see survivor has the "totem" ready as item. I can imagine dodging lobby against that a lot.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757355#Comment_3757355
I don‘t think it needs to get permanently broken as long as boons are bad and shattered hope isn‘t basekit
I don't consider boons bad. CoH is still very good perk SWF.
Same for unbreakable boon.
If it was permanent totem killer needs to break over and over again, I think that would be too strong. Basically every map would suddenly be strong for boons.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757371#Comment_3757371
There's a reason why every other pvp game aims for 50%, because it creates an equal challenge for BOTH SIDES. How on earth did you conclude that a 50% kill rate means the game would be too easy for survivors, when killers currently win with ease with the 60% kill rate target? Many experienced killers even have kill rates in the 70-80% range. One thing is for sure, if the game was balanced around a 50% kill rate then you wouldn't see these killer main streamers going on 1k win streaks. They would have to face the fact they aren't as skilled as they think they are in a balanced game.
Also bringing up queue times is a moot point since BP bonus was introduced. Your idea that that a 50% kr would mean long survivor queues is a moot point, because the past showed that the BP bonus solved the survivor shortage which happened after 6.1 was released.
There's a reason why every other pvp game aims for 50%
Every other symmetrical pvp game...
How on earth did you conclude that a 50% kill rate means the game would be too easy for survivors,
Because I have played with 50% kill rates? Everything other than Blight, Spirit and Nurse was easy to win against for us.
If you have average 50% with how killers work, you are going to have majority under 50% and few noob stomping killers like Skully, Pinhead, Sadako, Freddy, Pig above it. Those are going to boost the average while other killers would be miserable to play.
Many experienced killers even have kill rates in the 70-80% range
Many experienced SWF groups have those escape rates. Your point? Both sides can achieve this.
Hens in soloQ somehow managed to get 60% escape rate, because he played perks to help his teammates and was able to carry the game with good chases.
If all players have equal skill then game is quite balanced. Issue is there is low chance in soloQ to get 4 decent players, there is going to be a weak link. It can happen tho...
If you would aim for 50%, then group of 4 decent survivors is simply going to have easy time. That's what happens when you balance around the bad players, which 50% escape rate definitely is.
50% kill rate then you wouldn't see these killer main streamers going on 1k win streaks
You would.
Btw during 50% escape rate we had SWF group to get on 500 win streak. How exactly is that better?
Basically when we have those type of players, even now you usually need a competitive killer/team to break it. On both sides.
They would have to face the fact they aren't as skilled as they think they are in a balanced game.
Or you are not as good as you think now... At no point game was more balanced than right now.
because the past showed that the BP bonus solved the survivor shortage which happened after 6.1 was released.
Except it improved way before that. So not really.
If you make one side miserable, players won't play it just for BP. Queue times are good for both sides now, why make it worse again?
My main difference is killer is way more stressful role to play. 50% kill rate means more games end in late game / escapes, which is simply going to make this even worse.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757360#Comment_3757360
When you say terrible to play all I can assume is that you're saying killers don't want an equal challenge and want to win with ease.
On the queue time topic, you are talking about BEFORE the BP role bonus was introduced right? Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
When you say terrible to play all I can assume is that you're saying killers don't want an equal challenge and want to win with ease.
When you say kill rate should be 50% all I can assume is that you're saying survivors don't want any challenge and want to win with ease.
you are talking about BEFORE the BP role bonus was introduced right? Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
Yes, basically time before healing nerfs. Average kill rate was something like 53% if I remember correctly and survivor queues time were between 5-10 minutes. I refused to play waiting simulator.
I am quite happy with current queue times on both sides. Don't really care about BP bonus, even when playing with 0% queue times never get really that high for me.
Because after 6.1 killer queue times went up to 10 minutes but the BP bonus already solved that problem, so it's no issue.
Huge aspect about decreasing queue times was definitely healing nerf patch. BP is nice but it's not going to make you play something you really don't want to do.
About current balance possible questions.
Should all killers get nerfed? Hell no
Should there be specific killer changes buff/nerfs? Yes
Should all survivors get buffed? No
Should gen time decrease for higher escape rate? Hell no
Should soloQ get QoL features mostly focused on information? Definitely
At least from my experience balance SWF vs killers is quite good now.
Even when I play soloQ, killer is not the issue, teammates are.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3757353#Comment_3757353
This is the exact kind of post hoc reasoning from killer mains I was talking about in my post. If you completely ignore stats by rationalizing them to support your view then all that's left is forming an opinion based on feelings.
If the devs wanted a balanced game they would aim for a 50% kill rate, not 60%.
If the devs wanted a balanced game they would aim for a 50% kill rate, not 60%.
Well, we had kill rates like this and it showed on queue times.... So clearly not best approach.
Fact is lack of killers is more noticable than lack of survivors, or at least way faster.
Killers should definitely be a power role, so equal kill rate doesn't really make sense for this game.
If you would aim for average 50% then most killers are going to be terrible to play.
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Sure, but it shouldn't become actual totem. More like Pentimento totem, you could boon it, but it's lost if killer snuffs it.