Venom368
Venom368
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881154#Comment_881154
Can’t say I agree.
Its a pretty dick thing to do.
The choice to intervene and divert attention away from someone on death hook should be at the discretion of the other survivors.
I'm not sure anyone has the mentality "I'm dead on hook, none of my teammates are. I need their help. But I don't want to be mean and bring the killer to them. I'll just run away from all of them so it's harder for them to help me."
Until red survivor ranks, you generally won't see any survivors run towards a teammate in a chase just to bodyblock/take a hit for them because they know they are dead on hook.
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@InnCognito said:
Id say that feedback on this game for me is as follows: (im not discussing this with anyone, so no replies from me) This is just straight-up feedback to the Creators and Entity.
1 ) Distortion needs infinite use, instead of tokens. Since we get "Calm spirit" for the counter to crows. We need Distortion. BBQ and Nurses calling is being abused too much.
2 ) Pallet loops feel too short. There are literally "zero quality loops. Such as the pallet that is on some hay bails on Coldwind farm. I call this the "spacebar pallet" since the loop is so small. That only spamming spacebar will save a person (vaulting back and fourth on the pallet.
3 ) End Game Collapse. Yes, the hatch stand-offs made for some epic Youtube videos. I've been in several of those stand-offs that went that long. IF the programmers would have set it so the killer could not hatch-grap. The problem would have been gone. I've felt that what makes the game have quality is the hatch. It is "the ace in the hand' for when the other team members of the match are doing such a bad job, that it makes this worth while. Since ECG and closing of the hatch. We have the problem of no "worth while" plays for lower ranks. Because of poor team members. This game is played all over the world and not everyone is a pro for the ranks they play at.
- I'd leave the hatch closing Mechanic OUT, and if a survivor hatches. Just give the killer their points and pips. Be done. 3 players destroyed in a match imo. Is still a good killer.
- If you need to leave ECG on. 5 Minutes is fair. 2 minutes is not enough for any good plays.
4 ) Revert the purple and pink Add-ons for med kits. Insta heal medkits made for exciting clutch-plays. really. This game is becoming very boring without that "edge" of insta medkits.
5 ) Decisive strike. Slow the meter down, bigger skill check zone. Revert to First state.
6 ) Return all exhaustion status perks to recovery meters that slowly recovered at all times.
7 ) Since y'all want to ban players for DC'ing or penalizing. I'd do something about the slugging issues. Where players most often Abandon the game. I'd program it so the wiggle/struggle meter and the recovery meter share the same bar now. With the bar becoming full, to allow the player to recover from the dying state. It makes for epic game speed. Since killers have to forced to make plays.
8 ) Brutal strength raised to 25%. This will help killers stand better. They do deserve this courtesy.
9 ) Blood Warden needs work. A courtesy to killers that allows them to hex the gate zones shut. Yeah it is something that could effect one gate and proc as a hex. Interest?
10 ) Keyrings should make keys invulnerable to franklins Demise.
11 ) New perk idea; "stockholm syndrome". The exit zone is plagued with thoughts and feelings that cloud the survivors mind. As the survivor enters the exit zone. They are exposed status and one hit will down them. If they chose to leave this zone. The effects wear off after 15 seconds.
12 ) Killers with a "sprint burst" perk . I know killers would LOVE that change :-)
---- Im not a game designer. Just giving feedback ---
- Hiding in lockers prevents BBQ. If you see a teammate get picked up, jump in a locker. Or, get within 40 meters of the killer. If you hear their terror radius, you won't show up on BBQ. For nurses, once you realize they have it (when they instantly know where you/your teammate is when healing), then don't heal when in/near their terror radius. Nurses has a 28 meter range, and most killers have 32 meter terror radius.
- Some pallet loops are safe, others are not. Don't make an attempt to loop the unsafe ones. I recommend checking out a youtube vid on the different types of structures that can spawn, which shows which tiles are safe and which are not.
- I think ECG is fine how it is. If the killer could not hatch grab, they would have no way to prevent a survivor from using hatch. I disagree with most of the statements you make here, so i'm just going to move on.
- Insta med kits were just unfair to killers. Imagine a really good survivor looping you for 4 gens, teabagging at every window/pallet, and spinning you until you're dizzy. You finally get them down, and their teammate comes up and heals them to full hp before you can pick them up. That's a feelsbadman.
- DS is in a good spot. It finally is possible to avoid it as killer, and still prevents tunneling.
- I'm starting to believe you've never played killer before.
- Try using Flip-flop.
- Most killers stand just fine. Hillbilly has a bit of a limp and nurse just kinda floats, but that's about it.
- That with NOED would be a miserable experience. Survivors would be obligated to cleansing all dull totems throughout the game, every game.
- Keys are lame.
- This is just a worse version of NOED. The only time it would ever do anything is if you were next to a survivor while they opened the door. Nobody would wait in the exit zone if they were going to go for a save before leaving
- I... but...
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@DuckApproved said:
@Venom368 It was a bet I made with a group of not so nice survivors. The point of the post is to show that both sides, Killer and Survivor, have busted stuff. Its all in an effort to get people to stop bitching about the other side so much. This is what happens when both sides bring their strongest stuff.
Okay gotcha, that is less upsetting than this just happening randomly lol. I didn't catch the custom game part.
Yeah, this explains more why the game is not competitive. Because stuff like this exists. And nobody has fun when people try to play competitively using the best items
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I'm not really sure what the point is of this post, but it's upsetting just looking at the image. Both sides of this match brought things in an attempt to make the match the least amount of fun for the opposing team as possible.
I mean, good on you for handling everything they brought, but everybody in this image just looks like an #########. I don't really understand why anybody would want to play this way
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There are several spots on many maps that have a single passage entrance/exit where a trap completely blocks the area and must be disabled before passing. Is there something different/glitched about this one?
If not, just disable it. This is intended and not a bug.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869366#Comment_869366
When I'm not having fun and I've decided I don't want to continue playing, I'd like to be able to say "I give up, you win" instead of having to wait for the survivors to escape after they've had their fun taunting me. When I play chess, board games, or games like Hearthstone or Starcraft, I can concede the match at any time if I want. I don't see how it ruins the other team's fun when I give them a win, unless they only find enjoyment out of watching me suffer.
If BHVR doesn't want survivors to quit the game without any penalties, then why do they give survivors the option to die early during the struggle phase? If purposely dying on the hook is a reportable offense, then BHVR has the power to make it so you simply can't die on the hook before the 60 seconds are up. Why not take advantage of that instead of banning people for making use of normal in-game mechanics?
The difference with those games is that they are both 1v1 and symmetrical games. DBD functions much differently:
- If you quit as survivor, you're letting the rest of your team down and ruining their experience. You aren't on a team by yourself.
- Both of those games are much more rank/leaderboard oriented than DBD. At top levels of play in those games, you can much more objectively say who is the better player. (More-so with Starcraft, because it's less random than HS)
- A 'win' in DBD isn't clearly defined. The other games have explicit definitions of what a win is. To go with that, most of the time the opposing team isn't going to pip if you quit.
In DBD, survivors play less for the 'win', and more for the experience. Same goes for most horror themed multiplayer games. People play as survivor just so they can be chased and work together with other people to complete an objective. The other team's fun doesn't necessarily come from winning.
I think an important thing that shouldn't be overlooked is that survivor queues currently take ~5 - 15 on average to find a match, where killer queues are relatively instant (from my experience on PC over the last couple months). Survivor players want to spend more time playing the game than they do in the queue.
I come across survivors that just continuously juke me and I just cannot catch no matter what I do it feels like. But I'm not going to improve if I just quit. Sure the survivors can all escape against you as killer, but you can't die and be taken out of the game like you are with survivor. If it's late in the match and you aren't doing well, change your goal of the match from killing everybody to learning how a survivor did what they did, and what you could change in order to catch them.
BHVR lets you die early in the struggle phase because it's thematic to a horror game. It's to show that you have to physically do something to keep your character alive. It would be poor game design if there was a part of the game you could be in where you couldn't interact with anything at all and just had to sit there and wait. There should always be something you can do to interact with the game, no matter what state you are in. Dying on hook alone isn't bannable. Blatantly refusing to play after entering a match is bannable, like walking up to the killer and pointing to a hook.
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I think the feeling of the opposing team preventing you from using your full power, regardless of what that ability is, feels unsatisfying to players. It's a somewhat similar feeling to Trapper when every trap you put down gets disarmed 5 seconds later, or with Hag if everybody Urban Evades / flashlights all your traps.
It's not a great feeling when the people you are trying to kill can just deny you from using your power, and it's out of your control.
I think that just might have been an overlooked part of her design. She would certainly be more fun if you could earn her corrupt purge in a way that wasn't dependent on the survivors or add-ons, but then other pieces of her kit would definitely need to be nerfed. I think her power level is balanced as it is, and it would be a better time investment for the devs to work on new killers rather than reworking an already balanced character to make them 'more fun', and then having to try to rebalance her again.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869483#Comment_869483
Myers is awesome.
I find him extremely basic and boring. His power is to look at people. And you're useless in your Tier 1 which can be a pain to get out of. You might be able to get a hit on a survivor if you sneak up on them, but thats it. The only strategy/skill related thing you can do with him is 99% your tier 2 until you get close to someone and then pop tier 3. And even at tier 3 you're back to the Plague thing people are complaining about where you're still just a insta-down M1 killer (with a longer lunge and faster vault speed, instead of being able to track people easily from the vomiting)
You can do some interesting scratched mirror stealth builds with him, but that's usually only effective on indoor maps. I'd rather choose Pig for a stealth build anyways.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869423#Comment_869423
The conversation is more about making her more fun to play, not about how strong or weak she is.
I was trying to give some insight into how I have fun with her. I realize people don't like her because the survivors are the ones who choose if she can use the upgraded version of her power or not. I think she has a lot of decision making that makes her fun though. I think there are certainly less fun/interesting killers in the game than her, like Myers.
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Plague is one of my top 5 most played killers. I was inspired to learn her by FunGoose and the build he used to get over 100 Plague wins in a row without using any add-ons (Meaning the exit doors were never opened by the survivors in any of the games, i believe).
Her ability to puke on gens either prevents them from being worked on for 35 seconds, or somebody gets sick and you know where they are. Her vomit being a projectile lets you shoot it upwards onto ledges, over walls, etc. which can save a bunch of time or hit survivors who thought they were safe.
Yeah she becomes an insta-down M1 killer if nobody cleanses, but it's so easy to track people because they are so loud. Iron Will doesn't counter the sound of vomiting. I've had many games where Infectious Fright just lets me down everyone at once because nobody cleansed. And then, you can also just bring an apple or 2 as add-ons to have guarantee you can use your corrupt purge.
I have fun practicing and learning the physics with her projectile, and also when the right time to take the corrupt purge is. They could add more of a debuff to survivors to encourage them to cleanse, but I usually have much more successful games when nobody cleanses. In those games it feels just like running Infectious Fright on Billy where it's super easy to snowball.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869113#Comment_869113
This is a game, dude, not a job. If your response is to say "suck it up" when I'm not having fun, there's a problem. You can't tell me that I should be having fun when I'm not. If the survivors have the option to quit without a penalty, then killers should have the same option. It's a simple principle of fairness.
And if dying on the hook during the struggle phase is a reportable offense, then why does the game even give you the option to die early during the struggle phase? Just take away the button prompt so the survivor doesn't have to do anything if they want to stay in the game, AND so they can't just suicide on the hook.
I'm saying you shouldn't have the opinion "i'm not having fun, so i'm not going to let anybody else in the game have fun either". It's being considerate and a good sport.
BHVR doesn't want survivors to have the option to quit the game without a penalty. Why would the add a way for killers to do that when they don't want it to exist on either side? That's like saying "Survivors can abuse a bug, but killers can't. They should add in the bug for killers so they can abuse it too. It's a simple principle of fairness."
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If a survivor is blatantly trying to get you to kill them, you can also just not kill them...
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868953#Comment_868953
Survivors can leave the game without incurring a penalty, so why can't Killers?
Leaving a game because you're losing or you don't like how someone else is playing comes from an entitled mentality. It's part of the game. Get over it. Stop being a child and throwing a tantrum.
If you're getting stomped by the toxic SWF group, suck it up and say 'gg' after the game. It can be extremely angering, but take a breath and just play it out. They are trying to evoke a response from you for their amusement.
Most people rage quit on both sides because they want to deny the opponent points/fun/satisfaction/etc. This is just purposely trying to ruin the game for other people, because you were losing, or things weren't going how you wanted. That's why there is a penalty being added for leaving.
If a survivor kills themself on hook at the start of a match, you can report them for Unsportsmanlike Conduct/Greifing. These type of reports are going to have greater weight once the disconnect penalty patch comes out. BHVR isn't stupid, they know survivors are going to try to do this as a way to get around the automatic time penalty ban.
In the case of
4-man immersive blendette squads who refuse to do gens
you will eventually find them and kill them. And your rank will increase. You have the chance to dodge if you see 4 Blendette's in the lobby. And if you really are so frustrated with how the game is going, leave and take the time penalty.
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You can just leave the game. If you really don't want to play the match anymore, take the time penalty you're going to be given.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867809#Comment_867809
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/553/X1EE58IR0CQY.jpg
just wanted to say that a team of 4 blendettes appeared against me. and i guess you can know what happened from this screenshot.
#MoriAllBlendettes
Brings a tear to my eye
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I feel like this type of playstyle rewards killers for having physically good vision, rather than a solid chasing strategy.
For most people, including myself, this is very frustrating to play against. I would take getting infinite looped by a tea-bagging survivor that keeps 360ing me over squinting at my screen in the corner of the map for 5 minutes because Whispers is going off.
#MoriAllBlendettes
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@Galklife said:
" I know the community is split on how competitive DBD should be"
this game isnt competitive xd its party game to have good time xd in this game rank doesnt mean anything (100h surv can be R1, 150h killer can be R1)
there were couple attempts, maybe you remember those twitch things that was based on emblems in X games but it still was mostly for fun (at least in those communities that i belong to)
well maybe in your opinion community is split, its split like 6 to 1 because maybe you wont believe me most players are casual players that dont even try to get better in this game xd its as competitive as dont starve.
but im all about doing another que to keep all sweaty i mean competitive players away from myself, because playing vs "competitive" tunnelers off the hook is quite boring you know? but i would rather have casual que and ranked que (for those that still believes R1 will give you bigger E-pen) but without special treatment because i dont think with this polarized community it would pass (at most i would make sth like you cant bring add ons above green to casual Que)
and about "this game isnt ballanced around swf" well tbh this game is ballanced around having 1-2 bad players in your team that will die in 20sec to give killer time or lick walls for 1min, and funny enough when youre doing swf most of the time you wont get those bad players because maybe its weird but someone that knows you wont leave you on hook to 2nd phase most of the time wont just throw himself into random billy that is passing by with chainsaw
I don't believe DBD as it stands is a competitive game, but a there is part of the community that wants it to be, and plays like it is. I think it would be interesting to see what the game would look like with in a much bare bones setting. Possibly even no perks or something like that.
I find that I struggle to rank up at the top ranks of killer because I usually give the last person hatch, I don't proxy camp, or use perks that are frustrating to go against. But I think having a mode like this would make it so I wouldn't feel bad about trying hard.
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I realize that this is a stretch goal, and would take quite a long time to develop, but It's the best solution I can think of for addressing SWF comms.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866996#Comment_866996
Botany doesn't give efficiency to medkit
The perk states
Healing Speed and Healing Item Efficiency is increased by 11/22/33 %.
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I've spawned within the Huntress' whistle radius recently, but I don't have any extreme examples.
The worst I've had was a while ago, before Badham preschool had any changes to it. I spawned in as Doctor, and a survivor spawned together with me inside the killer shack... I just ignored him and let him run away because that was surely not intended.
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Probably Botany. The efficiency and speed are both very nice, especially when bringing a medkit.
I have found that running Bond is better than Self-Care or Empathy. Self-Care is so ridiculously slow. I also see teammates use it when they shouldn't be, like when they are facing Legion. Then they spend the majority of the game self-healing and don't touch any generators. It's usually better to just find a teammate with Bond and heal in half the time, then work on a generator together. Empathy just isn't as useful as Bond I feel. With Bond, I'm running to the person to unhook, but I see a teammate 30 meters away through a wall is already on the way there, so I can go back to doing the generator.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I personally wish this game had an option to have the hud disabled would really make the game look nice imo
That's true, but I do not know how much more the HUD could be limited. Like, you need it for skill checks and such. I think it would be reasonable to hide many of the sound bubbles that occur during event's like a survivor being hooked. When the killer is using 3rd Seal it's rough, but you can skill play with it.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866732#Comment_866732
SWF was introduced after the game received a review bomb on steam from survivors demanding they add a way to play together.
The game was obviously designed for solo survivors in mind. I think an obvious extension was always going to be something like SWF, I just wish they had planned for this or since they didn't, would address it for the health of the game.
Gotcha. That makes sense.
Another option I could see addressing the issue would be having an unranked mode. And you could play solo/SWF in that mode. In ranked you could only play solo.
The issue with that is rank really isn't important anyways. All it's used for is matchmaking. There's no leaderboards or anything like that. And there is too many aspects of the game that can be abused on both sides that would prevent any form of competitive experience from being enjoyable. I can see it being a cool idea if in ranked mode certain perks/items/add-ons were removed/restricted. But then again, I feel like that would just be forcing a game to be competitive that doesn't feel like it's meant to be competitive on that level.
Or maybe, introducing this restricted mode as a new mode with its own separate rankings or something while leaving the normal game how it is would be a solution. Call it Hardcore mode or something.
EDIT: I just made a post about this because it actually seems like a somewhat feasible way to address the SWF issue. Or at least have a more competitive mode in the game. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/107317/hardcore-mode-addressing-swf-balance
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866710#Comment_866710
It's funny you say there is nothing that can be done to fix the flaw, when the flaw was actually introduced due to review bombing :^)
What do you mean by this? And why did you add a smiley face? We were having a civil discussion 😞
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866611#Comment_866611
I don't want to punish friends who play together, but you admit it yourself the advantage it provides is basically unfair.
Killers need to be design around this because if they don't have the capability to deal with the most broken and powerful techniques in the game from survivors, survivors will always win and the game will become extremely stale very quickly. Of course survivors have been getting weaker with updates but that just shows you how strong and how much of the power role they really are if even after years of nerfs they are still too powerful in some aspects.
But my suggestion to fix this, and many others suggestion, doesn't even affect SWF. If we make solo survivors comparable or on the same level as SWF, then we can make the game much easier to balance around. Right now there are essentially 2 game modes, solo survivor and SWF survivor. 1 of them is significantly harder than the other, and 1 uses tactics and 3rd party software that was never intended to be a part of Dead by Daylight.
This makes balancing the game very harder because if something is too weak for solo survivors that doesn't mean it isn't broken and game breaking with SWF, or vice versa. Some killers can deal with SWF (cough like Nurse USED to be able to) and some just can't. That is bad game design especially when the problem can be mitigated by fixing the survivor issue of SWF.
I agree that it is an unfair advantage. But, I think it is an inherent flaw with the game and there is nothing that can reasonably be done about it.
The only possible way to balance the existing issue would be to enable comms in game for all survivors. That's the only way. And that would require rebalancing everything about the game. It would be far too much to reasonably change. It would be a completely different game.
I can't think of any other change that could be made that wouldn't make you feel disadvantaged for playing SWF. Any other change would be subjective.
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@Uxoricide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866444#Comment_866444
@Venom368 There are multiple threads from survivor mains who complain about how unfun she is to play against now as well... not sure what you're basing your comment off of...
Honestly, it will never be fun to play against a good Nurse. Ever. These nerfs have just made it harder to be a good Nurse. Right now, you do what you can to mindgame and juke the Nurse, and pray that they make a mistake. Survivors now just have more time to separate themselves from the Nurse if she messes up.
I've said it during every nerf they've made to the Nurse since release, that she will never be 'balanced' until they change her blink power. Windows, pallets, and mindgames are the 3 things you can use to defend yourself from killers in this game when in a chase. The Nurse negates 2 of those things. You are left with hoping the Nurse doesn't predict you correctly as your only defense. They could increase the blink recharge fatigue to 10 seconds and that would still be your only defense.
Until they add another form of defense or remove her ability to go through things, she won't be fun to play against. I used to only play Nurse for the first several months that I had the game, but I've realized that the game would just be better without her. I want both sides to have fun.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866554#Comment_866554
How many videos have been and still are made showing squads bullying killers? Or streamers looping killers to the point where they have DC montage videos. Nothing has been done to address SWF, a problem that affects EVERY killer, yet we have decided to completely gut the fun of a killer who only saw use on a very specific platform and only in high elo where the devs say they don't want to balance the game around.
And there was always counterplay to Nurse. Tru3 did a few videos on it that I saw many people put into practice against me. It was up to survivors to change the way they engage with the killer when it was Nurse. Most refused and tried to applying the same boring looping strategy to her as they do for other killers. When that doesn't work they complained of no counterplay. Now they can just literally run across the map a few times and waste so much of your time without even having to wipe a single drop of sweat off.
I haven't really seen any DBD montages or anything, but I'll take your word for it. And I've only ever played solo survivor. I haven't played SWF before. Comm's in a SWF group seems unfair, but a killer shouldn't be balanced around its ability to deal with that..
Nothing has been done against SWF yet because people shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with their friends. And there is certainly people playing SWF that aren't in comms with eachother. The people that are in comms have an advantage, but just based on the nature of the game being asymmetrical, I don't think there's anything that can/should be done about it. Especially since there is no way to prove that a SWF group is in comms. The most BHVR can do is not support voice chat.
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Tenacity is the one I see used most often, but I think it's the least useful of the 3. If I see a survivor zooming across the ground, no way I'm leaving him slugged.
I think Stake Out and and Detective's Hunch are both pretty underrated, albeit not the best perks either. If I had to pick one to just throw on a build in the last slot it would probably be Detective's Hunch. It seems helpful for finding Ruin and can be combo'd with Inner Strength if you happen to have it.
Stake Out is helpful if you run it with Autodidact, but otherwise you might be wasting the Great Skill checks on healing somebody rather than on gens.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866504#Comment_866504
But most of the outcry was for addons. The devs started out saying it was just going to be addons.
It would have been so much better to have data and reason behind basekit changes instead of a shotgun approach by people who clearly don't understand what makes her fun and interesting to play.
I was not active on the forums prior to the nerf, but I did of course know that the multi-blink add-ons had always been an issue. But, every streamer I had ever watched pre-nerf always used her without add-ons and still complained about her strength. So in my eyes, it seemed like a nerf to her base kit was justified when several rank 1 killers consistently complained about her ability to be far more effective than other killers, even without using add-ons
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866468#Comment_866468
Yes. It breaks her flow. You use blinks for everything, and having the so limited when you need them the most (finding a survivor after traveling the map) it forces you to hold 1 blink at all times otherwise risk making the next chase extremely long. Because that's the next big unfun part, it went from skillful map interaction and reading of survivor and killer to juke Nurse, but now all you need to do is run forward and occasionally break LOS so you can get out of double blink range before in essence resetting that chase completely. It went from skillful to -> anyone can do it.
Lastly, you know this was a band-aid fix when something like 99% on blinks can happen. It was clearly never intended to have such restrictions on it and they certainly have done nothing to ease it such as a slower recharge rate while using blinks or even just another blink in the vault so you have options.
The changes removed her mind-games, her map-travel, her fluidity, and diverse ways to play her and is now forcing you to play a very specific way or get punished extremely hard. I have had zero fun with her changes, the addons would've been enough on their own but we didn't even get a good addon pass either.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866458#Comment_866458
You say it yourself, stats aren't everything. You take fun into consideration certainly, we can see that by the recent Spirit changes. So why then, when there are so many good suggestions, fixes, and altogether better changes on the forums that have gone ignored?
You know she is drastically less fun and certainly less flexible than before, can we please do something to address this?
I think a nerf to her flexibility was needed, regardless of her add-ons. She does feel very punishing to make mistakes with though, so I could see them reducing the base blink recharge time in the future. Without any recharge at all though, you just feel like you can't escape her no matter how many jukes or mistakes the Nurse makes. I think that was an issue that needed to be addressed because that just isn't fun to play against. More time will tell, though.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866444#Comment_866444
I don't think they were overwhelmingly positive from everyone else. Certainly from people like yourself who are content with the changes. Bystanders with no investment one way or the other have, just as their group name is, mixed opinions. I've seen quite a few people agree the addons should be changed but the basekit was too much (especially if they haven't tested the addon changes first like they should have) but I've also seen people agree with the changes.
Either way, we'll never have the solid data that could be very useful in this debate. If they have changed her addons first and left her basekit alone, we could see if it was just addons over-performing or if it had something to do with her basekit. Now we'll never get to know AND she's unfun! The best outcome!
I do agree with you that it would have been better to test the add-on changes alone first. But from what I recall, many people used her without any add-ons. (I know I did)
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I finished the achievement last week sometime. I have yet to complete:
- Catch 100 survivors in bear traps
- Stalk for 300 tier power increased with Myers
- Have 300 Hag traps triggered
- Down 100 survivors while they are in Clown gas
- Down 25 survivors that have Deep Wounds as Legion
- Down 50 marked survivors with Ghost Face
You will get it eventually. I find Huntress to be one of the most fun killers to play, and you can see which killers I don't play much lol
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@Uxoricide said:
Hey, @Peanits hope all is well!
With the data released showing how nurse has become one of the least picked killers added with multiple threads explaining how her base kit is unfun, are there any upcoming changes?
Performance and fun are not the same thing in my head, I know that I can still get 4 kills but that doesn't make her fun
She went from being a 'fun killer' to 'not fun' because of the blink recharge..?
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@PickCollins said:
- Hag is the least popular killer in red ranks despite most tier lists placing her at around B to A tier.
- Freddy has the highest kill rate at red ranks, being over 75%. Freddy has an average pickrate too, Being the third most played killer.
- The top 5 most popular killers in red rank are Spirit, Billy, Freddy, Huntress, and Ghostface.
- The top 5 strongest killers in red ranks are Freddy, Billy, Spirit, Hag, and Pig.
- Statistically, the Clown, Demogorgon, and Nurse have the lowest kill rates in red ranks.
- Statistically, despite Nurse still being rated as S tier by some people, the Nurse in red ranks has a lower kill rate than Legion, Wraith, Trapper, Pig, Plague, Doctor, Leatherface, and Hag.
- The Clown is statistically the weakest killer in the game right now in red ranks. (When all other ranks are taken into consideration, the Nurse is statistically the weakest killer in the game).
- While the Spirit had the highest pickrate in the game, her killrate was only in the top 3. She was only the most popular killer, not statistically the strongest.
- Statistically the best 3 killers are Spirit, Billy, and Freddy. All of them have strong winrates and pickrates.
According to BHVR's own stats the following statements can be considered true.
- If Spirit was "overperforming", then she either barely grazed that bar or Billy and Freddy are coming close to it. (If they aren't already. If one of them is over the line I'd say Freddy is probably what BHVR would consider "overperforming").
- Nurse is no longer one of the best killers in the game. Statistically she is one of the weakest right now. She is only statistically stronger than Demogorgon and Clown.
- The Clown is statistically the worst killer in the game.
- Huntress is a very popular killer despite having a low killrate (if my estimate is correct Huntress is 14th.)
- Placing killer viability based on these stats is kinda tricky. But if these stats are true (which there's no reason to assume they aren't, then the following killers would be considered "not viable" at red ranks without a lot of help (Legion, Wraith, Nurse, Demogorgon, Clown, Plague, Doctor, Leatherface). (Hag would have been included due to her low pickrate but her high killrate disqualified her from what I would consider "not viable".)
Also, according to these very same statistics
- Hawkins, the Game, and Lery's are statistically the strongest killer maps. All of these maps are small, and Hawkins in particular has a distinct lack of safe loops, making loops winnable for the killer.
- Haddonfield is statistically the safest survivor map. This map features a lot of safe window structures and popular spots for the perk "Balanced Landing", allowing the creation of very long chases with minimal effort.
So with this in mind. I have a lot of questions for BHVR based on these stats.
- Are Freddy and Hillbilly on your radar for changes? Are they, what you would consider, overperforming?
- What exactly caused Spirit to be "overperforming"? Is it her pickrate or the combination of pickrate and killrate?
- Are there any plans to address the 3 statistically underperforming killers? And by "any plans" I mean, within the next 2-3 patches and not "they're on our list of things to address".
- Nurse was the recipient of a rework that, while on the PTB, received pages and pages of negative feedback from players. That feedback was ignored and the only addons that people considered good on the reworked Nurse were nerfed when she was pushed to the live server. Now that the feedback remains negative and the statistics show she is an incredibly weak killer at red ranks, are there any plans to go back and revisit this rework to try and address why she is so unpopular and weak?
- What is the reason behind Hag having an incredibly low pickrate. There are very few metrics that consider Hag to be a weak killer. The only logic behind her low pickrate is that people simply do not enjoy her playstyle for whatever reason. Is there any plan to make Hag a more fun killer to play as without necessarily increasing her strength?
Just a couple of comments based on your questions you listed at the end:
The feedback from the Nurse changes has been overwhelmingly negative from Nurse players. It has been overwhelmingly positive from everybody else. I feel like a killer with the ability to avoid many of the games mechanics, that all other killers have to abide by, should have an extremely high skill ceiling and be punished heavily for mistakes.
If the majority of the community feels that when they play against a killer, they are just going to die no matter what they do, I think that killer should be very punishing to make mistakes with.
The hag is an extremely strong killer. And it's mostly due to her ability to camp. And it has to do with people not liking that playstyle. I think having strong killers for different niches of playstyles is good for the game. I think it's impressive that BHVR has been able to make killers that play much differently that remain pretty balanced with eachother.
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If killers exist that can disregard game mechanics, they should be very punishing when making mistakes with them. This is what creates a skill gap. A nurse that makes 0 mistakes in a game is still going to 4k. Making 0 mistakes with her is extremely difficult, but it's healthy for the game to have killers with an extremely high skill ceiling.
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Freddy is for sure strong, but he doesn't feel like garbage to play against. Spirit feels like garbage to play against. I think one of the main things that gives him a high kill rate is that he naturally negates BT.
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The penalty is that the killer will get less blood points overall, likely not rank up (proximity to hooked survivors gives negative points to your emblem post-game), and not pressuring any generators at all.
This limits the amount of altruism bloodpoints survivors can get, but the survivors will rank up, and the killer will not. The survivor being hooked camped just kinda gets screwed and derank along with not getting bloodpoints, but that's just how it goes. Do them justice for being the sacrifice that gets the rest of the survivors the escape.
The killer will either eventually realize that they would be getting more bloodpoints and/or ranking up faster with a different strategy, or they will remain at low ranks. Every low rank killer I've ever seen camps hook, and you just have to realize that and do gens instead of waiting around the hook doing nothing in hopes to get the save.
If you go in for the save with a camping killer, then either you or your teammate is going to get put back up on that hook. Unless you have BT and can pull some God Tier jukes to not get downed while trying to unhook... But otherwise, you're making the killer think "hey this camping strategy works, look at all the points and hooks i'm getting". If you just let them camp, and finish all the generators, they will eventually learn their lesson that hook camping is not an effective strategy.
If any balance change were to come from this, perhaps an extra bloodpoint scoring event for the survivor being camped on hook that depended on the time and proximity the killer was near the hook you were on.
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@SupaSlay3r20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/860113#Comment_860113
I guess matchmaking just sucks then, because when I was rank 10 killer I was playing against rank 2s.
Is that recently? I thought there was a hard cap on +/- 6 ranks last I knew. Several months ago, it used to be based off of the average rank of a SWF group instead of the highest person.
It could be possible that if there are so few people playing killer on a server, that it just matches whoever with whoever.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
I wouldn't call myself immersed, but I'm no runner. Stealth seems like just a viable option then, so I learned how to hide as killers walk past/around and get fed up to leave. No Urban and no corners.
I just wait for you to leave, then go back to a generator. Or possibly healing someone.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859696#Comment_859696
Even the rare Helpful Non-P3 Blendette? The one that did that generator you swear you kicked 30 seconds ago?
ShOuLd HaVe BeEn RuNnInG wHiSpErS.
I had to force myself to stop being a stealth survivor. I used to always run Urban Evasion and play stealthy. And then I realized that I'm never going to be able to get good at running the killer if I continue to play stealthy. It was definitely a struggle at first, and I'm still not a great survivor player, but I get so many more bloodpoints than I did before. I can consistently get 4 stacks of WGLF each game, and I definitely feel confident looping the killer at certain structures now.
It's annoying and boring to play with and against Iron Will, Urban Evading Blendettes. I've noticed high rank players don't even make an attempt to be stealthy and thats why Ruin is seen as necessary on some killers. You will get gen rushed right in front of your face when nobody attempts to hide. One issue I hate as survivor is when an immersed person saved you from hook, they hide when the killer comes back and i'm left there loud as ######### because im injured so I just get back into the chase. The healthy person who saved you should take the aggro from the killer instead of just leaving you to get hooked again.
I actually do run Whispers on every killer lol. I hate playing without it. And yes, mori EVERY Blendette. Not every Claudette, though. Throw any shirt on Claudette that isn't blendy, and you're good to go in my book.
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@SupaSlay3r20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859984#Comment_859984
A rank 10 killer could end up going against a SWF with 2 rank 1s and 2 rank 20s. That killer will likely be looped for most of the game by the rank 1s. It isn't fair for the killer and it isn't helpful to the rank 20s as they won't be getting better by going against a killer that is clearly better than them.
That can't happen in the current matchmaking system. The highest ranked survivor in a SWF group must be within 6 ranks of the killer.
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Imagine the survivor queue times if they decreased the rank range
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/859716#Comment_859716
That's why we've seen a very noticeable drop in her all around, because it was such a good change?
I haven't seen a drop in her play rate whatsoever. I said nothing about it being a good change. All I said is shes still the strongest killer in the game.
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Adrenaline does not cure sickness and will not heal you if you are broken. You will always get the speed boost though. If you are sick and injured, but not broken, it will heal you.
There are no perks that cure sickness. You can only lose the sickness through cleansing. Or dying... technically
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Nurse is still the strongest killer in the game and most likely always will be on PC. I'm sure she still feels just as ass to play on console as she did before
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I highly recommend all of you join the #MoriAllBlendettes movement.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
Fix or delete keys
I'm on the same page as this. Keys are certainly OP. But, then again, this game is not meant to be competitive. There are so many items/add-ons/offerings that are just completely broken.
I throw on an Ebony mori whenever there's Blendette's in the lobby who are going to play the entire game immersed and a part of the #MoriAllBlendettes movement. Other than that, I don't use them. It is obviously an overpowered item, and it was designed to be overpowered. But for 1, they are ultra rare so you aren't going to be able to use one every game. And 2, it doesn't feel good as the killer if you constantly use them. You won't even pip if you kill everyone after their first hook. In fact, you will barely even safety pip.
It's like using cheat codes in any game. Its fun initially to use them, and then it gets super boring because there isn't a challenge anymore and theres no satisfaction that comes from using something design to be overpowered once the initial entertainment value of it wears off.
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I have constantly been wondering why people have been saying he's getting a nerf. It is 100% a buff to Legion. He feels much better to play on PTB than he currently does. The movement buffs are massive.
So many people have said the inability for him to to apply Sloppy Butcher and STBFL stacks with his ability is a massive nerf, but it really isn't... I've always felt those were both already pretty mediocre perks on him in the first place. There is definitely better perks you can currently run on him before this patch actually comes out.
I asked someone complaining about the changes if they has tried him yet, and their response was:
I haven't tried him yet, but i really have no desire too either. You can read how bad he is in the patch notes, and seeing videos on Legion only prove how he's even weaker now.
Don't go off of the patch notes or other people's speculations. Try him out and see how he feels.
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I don't mind playing against her, though it is harder to go for hook saves without Urban Evasion or a flashlight. It certainly depends on the map on how difficult the chases are. You can loop her forever, especially if you have a flashlight, because she is as slow as the Huntress. On a map where structures are very close to eachother, its easy to just move to the next structure once she realizes she can't catch you in a loop and has to put down a trap to stop you from looping there. On more open maps with spread out structures, she will likely get a hit in on you before you can make it to the next structure.
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@Mert_MK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858764#Comment_858764
I don't really care about hatch and don't expect to escape every single game unlike killers who feel like they have to 4k every single game by using the most boring "strategy" ever causing a lot of DC's and you can't blame them for it because people got better things to do than waste their time looking at the ground for 4 minutes. Just for your precious 4k especially when you pretty much won at that point.
Don't worry, people will be punished for those DCs in the next patch.
you can't blame them for it because people got better things to do than waste their time looking at the ground for 4 minutes. Just for your precious 4k especially when you pretty much won at that point.
'better things to do' as in queuing up again and continuing to play the videogame..? DCing while slugged is just being a sore loser. Suck up your pride, wait until you die, and keep the bloodpoints you earned. You come off sounding extremely entitled if you have the mentality:
"You are wasting my time if you slug me. I've lost, but my time is more important than your's and you should be happy enough with just killing me. It's unethical to extend my time in this game an extra 4 minutes just so you can try to prevent my teammate from getting hatch."
or
"It's unfair that you aren't killing my teammate and are looking for me instead. I deserve the opportunity to potentially find hatch before you and escape, and you are denying me that opportunity."
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@SkeletalElite said:
Arguing that the survivors have a competitive advantage from no charms is a bad stance. Survivors also gain a competitive advantage from playing claudette, and yeah theres a lot of clauds, but theres also a lot of non clauds.
Sorry, this wasn't supposed to be a serious argument of the survivors having a competitive advantage. This was a play by play of the vision that went through my mind that I wrote while intoxicated. Adding this feature would probably have no impact on any actual gameplay lol