UncannyLuck
UncannyLuck
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I just want them to fix protection hit events for WGLF. Half the time you'll get the score for it but not actually get a stack.
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How often do you run into DS, let alone DS during End Game? And would Enduring have made the difference?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/479477#Comment_479477
Nothing has been confirmed for changing insta-heals yet. It might seem like a waste at first, but all things considered, if that first chase lasts a decent amount (at least 80 seconds), that's a quick three generators right away. If that guy goes down and a second guy saves with a styptic and MoM, all they'd have to do is stall for another 80 seconds or so and the remaining two survivors could get the last two generators. It's got a real potential to snowball out of control if it's too easy to use early on.
And how often did you see this happen with current MoM?
Actually, further, how often are matches actually < 3 minutes to finish gens?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/479412#Comment_479412
We're still experimenting with different changes at the moment, it's not set in stone just yet, but I'll just throw a scenario out there for discussion.
- Survivor is being carried to a hook.
- Take a hit.
- Styptic.
- Take a hit.
- Take another hit, MoM activates.
You could basically get MoM right away with little to no effort. This could be a game changer at the start of the game, allowing the downed survivor to go free and restart the chase. This was a huge problem with the old DS and a big part of why it was changed.
Ideally it should be pretty hard to activate. The effects of the perk are huge and could completely change the course of a game. Making it too easy to get would be a bit of a problem.
That seems like a waste of a stypic to get your perk to activate? Also weren't you guys going to nerf instant heals cause they're kinda dumb?
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Err, anyone else have difficulty getting WGLF stacks from protection hits that aren't from a killer transporting? Cause it's a coin flip whether I get them or not.
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It's definitely not a double edged sword though, and arguably is not a high risk high reward perk.
The only way this perk could be double edged is if survivors just don't bother cleansing or healing and just do generators, but with hindered they're still moving slower than no blink nurse.
As for high risk high reward, it's not really that either. Unlike Devour, where you legitimately risk it going out before it does anything, you get something out of it by hitting even 1 survivor. Just because you can get nothing out of a perk in a match doesn't automatically make it high risk high reward. Take Spirit Fury for example - you can go an entire match without getting it to proc, which is no different than losing a hex perk before getting to use it. Does that make it high risk high reward? If a survivor never hits you with a pallet, you don't proc enduring. Does that make enduring high risk high reward?
In any case, what was the idea behind the change to third seal? What did you want to accomplish or what play styles did you want to enable? Like, did you want to slow the game down?
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Hindered and Broken would probably be way too strong in addition to not being fun to play against. On the other hand, it might make no mither into a meta perk.
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For the reimagined BW, I was thinking legitimately until the totem is cleansed - just like every other hex perk.
Frankly, I'm not sure what would work there. If it's a timer, survivors just hide or do nothing until it runs out. If it's not a timer, then your best bet is to camp your totem which wouldn't be fun to play against.
Also I really like the suggestion for third seal above. Hiding progress bars on top of blindness would be strong, but survivors could still see a generators progress by the amount of pistons moving.
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That's a fair counterpoint - would you say it should do both (e.g. when powered AND after hook) or just activate like NoED then? I think you're right that the secondary condition won't happen enough.
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I wasn't sure if that'd be too strong or not. I think that, as long as you have another dull Hex totem, it should be able to re-activate. I guess I should clarify that it's no longer time-based but rather the exit gate switches are blocked until the totem is cleansed. It's less situational than it was previously at least?
And yeah EGC probably isn't an issue. You might have a hilarious situation where someone makes a key escape and gets their team killed, but that'd be rare.
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Yeah it's kinda a wash. With a Gen, all 4 survivors could pile on and do it in less time than it'd take to cleanse 5 totems individually. I just want to see the widest selection of perks available, so having clear winners is a no-go for me.
Here's an idea for Blood Warden: After hooking someone when exit gates are powered, a dull Hex totem will light up. The entity will block the exit gate switches until the totem is cleansed.
The change here would be rather than blocking the exit itself, it would prevent survivors from opening the exit until they cleansed the totem. It might need to be disabled if EGC is activated.
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@tt_ivi_99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/478358#Comment_478358
Why does It have to come with a risk tho? I mean... Does Balance Landing come with a risk? Does DS come with a risk? Does Adrenaline come with a risk?
I'm not even saying it should come with a risk there - just that the perk described would always be run by every killer because you're effectively saying "start the trial with 6 generators to do." And that's boring because that means you only have 3 perks to do other interesting things with since you always have to run that perk unless you feel like gimping yourself that match.
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Ruin isn't that good and it's considered to be a 'must run' perk and you've designed something that is strictly superior to Ruin in every situation, barring playing against survivors who cannot do skill checks for the life of them.
Even if they do cleanse all 5 totems then you've effectively made them take enough time to do an extra generator anyway (70 seconds to cleanse 5 totems assuming they aren't interrupted at all since cleanse progress doesn't stay vs 80 seconds to do a generator). It's not a risk in the slightest because you always benefit.
EDIT: Let me recontextualize this - if there was a perk that said 'Once per match, revert a completed generator to 0% progress' what would you say about that perk? Would you ever run something other than that perk?
Also since we're talking about perks, what would you do with Dying Light? I was thinking it'd be usable if it applied its debuff if the obsession was hooked / in the dying state, but didn't if they were dead.
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Could you list those things? 'cause it's mathematically better than Ruin, and any situation where you'd lose Ruin you'd also lose NoED.
Also I didn't realize you still intended for it to keep its hidden-totem-perk status - I take it that you couldn't cleanse it after the fact? It's basically "cleanse all totems or you have to do an extra gen"?
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I think the suggested NoED change would be too strong - when would you ever not run that? Like, what other 4 perks would you choose over running that?
I don't think it's reasonable to call Remember Me situational since a killer will either: A) make it to the end game, or B) not have needed the perk to make it to the end game. And once you're in the end game, unless your Obsession is a master of disconnection or stealth, you're likely getting something out of it. If this perk was increased like that, they wouldn't be able to do something like make EGC start when all gens are powered since you could easily make it mathematically impossible to win - just something to keep in mind.
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I think the problem is less "too tipped in the killer's favor" and more "1v1 is a waste of time for everyone involved, except in rare cases."
A concede button would solve this by allowing the survivor to give up if they know they can't win or don't want to bother against overwhelming odds.
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It looks like you missed a few killer perks that you listed as "not very good" (e.g. Hex: Third Seal & Hangman's Trick)?
Also, Left Behind is still probably not worth using as it's a strictly inferior Wake Up! which you also had to buff. It's probably just a conceptually bad perk, because you could make it like "When you are the last survivor in the match, you instantly repair any generator you start repairing" and nobody would take it.
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Hot take: Spirit Fury:Pallet Stun::MoM:Survivor hits
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The problem with the hatch is I don't like it.
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Bill - WGLF / Borrowed Time / We'll Make It / Empathy
Jake - Iron Will / Calm Spirit / ??? / ???
I like IW+CS a lot even if it's just silly.
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What about changing it to be twice as long to revert as starting the regression takes normally, and buffing regression to 0.33 from 0.25?Orion said:Yes, this needs to be reversed. It should take a single Survivor 4 times as long to recover the generator as it does for the Killer to regress it.
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What proof or evidence am I expected to have about a hypothetical game mode? What proof or evidence do your have for your claims? That's a ridiculous request.
As for my unconscious survivors being effectively dead - tell you what: start up a KYF match and follow the rule that after rescuing someone you both have to stay at the hook for 5 seconds. You can't start healing until that time has passed. Then, after if they get hit they have to DC if you don't get around to healing them. I say KYF because it will be important that the killer is aware of how it works too.
I assumed that you'd remove self care with these changes because otherwise you've turned it into a literal must-run perk.
Franklin's with these changes will be very strong because it sounds like you've balanced around the assumption of them being required.
Dropping off med-kits doesn't sound like interesting gameplay to me, or doesn't sound interesting enough to justify these changes.
Killers are still incentivized to get at least a down in this scenario, since it will run the bleedout timer and prevent self-care. We actually might see slugging become meta again in that case. Actually, that's probably the smartest thing to do with these changes since hook stages don't really matter anymore.
Chases are not currently a death sentence. With these changes they become one though unless you play flawlessly (since, again, I assume these changes also kill self-care). Even the best survivors get found, take hits and get put on hooks. The worst survivors have all these happen frequently. In this world, getting hit means you've got to get away from the killer and then find someone to heal you in 5 minutes or you're out.
Basically, I stand by my original statement. None of these changes sound fun. A lot of perks would have to be rebalanced as would abilities of killers. Being left unconscious on the ground while the killer goes to look for the last survivor doesn't sound fun (and isn't fun when they do slugging, but at least I can crawl around like a moron while waiting for that). They also don't sound better balanced. -
This doesn't work at all for solo play, and sounds unfun to play as even with SWF. Once a survivor goes unconscious they're effectively dead. Doubly so if they're hooked. Franklin's Demise destroys every team unless they play ultra immersed, which they will have to because they can't "win" chases anymore. Every chase is a death sentence since good luck losing a competent killer.
These changes heavily discourage altruism despite claiming to promote it, again because taking a hit is a death sentence. Your last survivor change won't work because killers will just leave the other survivor unconscious like they do now for the hatch.
This is not the way to go, not in the slightest. -
What underused perks would you like to see buffed for killers? What sort of buffs? Are there any perks that need nerfing for killers?
Ditto for survivor.
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I like Sloppy Butcher but I wouldn't mind seeing it do something like apply Broken for n seconds before applying Mangled.
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You do realize it's only been ~20,000 hours since the game launched right? Like, 1800 = 9% of the last two years playing DbD.TheDarkLycan said:@Nickenzie said:
So, I think I have enough evidence and experience to voice my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Before I start, I'm gonna say how many hours I have which is something I usually don't say because it really doesn't matter but I'm going to anyways to show you that I know what I'm talking about!
MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
(Spoiler)Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
(Spoiler)i hate to say it Nickenzie but even though you are mostly right, i think you need to at least double or triple your hours to get a good say about DBD.
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Putting every survivor to sleep isn't hard right now with the right add-ons. It's certainly not hard enough to warrant a free Exposed, and that's considering that people can self-care wake themselves right now. Nobody should have trouble putting 4 survivors to sleep with these changes.
30 seconds would be too short, 4 minutes is fine. The bonus from getting all 4 asleep is more than enough. Especially considering you can't actually do anything about being asleep any more.
And how would hook recuses work? Do the sleeping survivors teleport to the hook? -
The exposed effect is too much unless you rework all his add-ons and don't allow him to have aura reading period. Remember, you're giving him a 40% bonus to attacks and action speed. That's a full 8 tokens on STBFL that stacks with STBFL and can't be lost. I think his reward for sleeping everyone is in the bonus you gave him.
Also, how does this interact with hooks? Does he have to pick them up where there sleeping? -
So are you saying this wouldn't help with discouraging people from breaking hex totems? If there was an actual risk associated with them?
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Jen plays the whole round and DCs when she is dead or about to escape. It's what gave me the idea for the suggestion earlier.
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Don't use add-ons then?
Immediately DCing makes the survivors de-pip as well, but AFKing wastes everyone's time. That's why I suggested playing normally and DCing at the end. -
I mean, you know you're not rage quitting so just close out of the match before they make the comments?
Not that it's appropriate to make the comments but you can't control what other people do. -
I think the change to surveillance would be neat. The question is whether to do something so the survivors know it's being watched or not. I was leaning towards letting them know, but it'd be a stronger perk if it didn't.
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Have you considered playing the game and then DCing at the end when they escape / are going to escape? I think that's the fairest way to de-rank for everyone involved.
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Why would anyone run this over borrowed time? It wouldn't even work on basement hooks, and there'd be another hook like 3 feet away anyway.
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I like that you provided reasons for why you made choices, which makes it easier to understand. The BP gain between survivor and killer is possibly more out of whack with these changes but aside from the removal of offerings I like most of these changes.
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Yeah, on the other hand if people want to do true "hardmode" builds then Autodidact 1 is perfect for that as it makes all your skill checks only slightly better than great ones after you do like 3.
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I also think they should give BPs for being in the killers terror radius while not being chased (stealth).
They do though. I mean, they should give more but they do right now.
Also fair on the basement thing.
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@HaterMcTater said:
@UncannyLuck said:
Fun fact: you actually never positively impacted a match with that perk. At 4 tokens, you've healed -10% of a bar (-25 + -10 + 5 + 20). You need an average of 5 tokens (aka 5 skill checks) for it to not be a net negative per match.I think reducing the starting penalty and reducing the number of tokens would make it more usable. It'd still be better to run We'll Make It most of the time, but if you wanna run an empathy healing build it'd be usable then.
I think the original math you said is incorrect since by the 4th token, you'd have a +35%, (-25% + 15% = -10% + 15% = 5% + 15% = 20% + 15% = 35% + 15% = 50%) however, it still doesn't positively impact the match like you said. The amount of time it takes to work, not to mention the amount of time you waste on healing action for the initial build up is detrimental. Then most importantly, with skillchecks being RNG based, you may not get a skillcheck until the end of a heal, and by then it wont even matter what token you have unless its a -25% or a -10% which shows how it hurts healing progression rather than help. I agree that if they can limit the initial build up penalty to something like -10%, it could help this perk a bit. Thanks for the comment!
Yes, you'd have +35% on your next heal. The problem is, at 4 tokens that means you haven't had a chance to use that +35%. This means that if you look at it cumulatively, you've added a total of -10% to a heal bar. And that's how this perk should be looked at.
To further clarify:
1st Heal = -25%; -25% cumulative
2nd Heal = -10%; -35% cumulative
3rd Heal = +5%; -30% cumulative
4th Heal = +20%; -10% cumulative
5th Heal = +35%; +25% cumulative (you never got to this state because your max was 4 tokens)It's even worse because even if you average 5 tokens, it'd be better just to bring botany knowledge which would be almost as good (+20% cumulative vs +25% cumulative) and have a 0% chance of being actively harmful.
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Can't you get bold by standing in the terror radius and then leaving? Or hanging out in the basement?
The only thing you can't get is altruism, and I guess in theory you could get that with an AFK trapper running bloody coils + self-setting traps.
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Hey, +2% healing means after 4 tokens you're only at a net -2% rather than -10%! It means you've ALMOST not hurt your team by bringing the perk and that's... something right?
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... but you can't get great skill checks with autodidact? Can you like record a video of you doing it?
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... how does stake out help?
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Frankly, I like it better than the ideas that were pitched during the dev stream. This is a scenario where the survivor has a chance to make it out. Plus, it'd make Left Behind / Sole Survivor not as bad which is a major plus for me.
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Fun fact: you actually never positively impacted a match with that perk. At 4 tokens, you've healed -10% of a bar (-25 + -10 + 5 + 20). You need an average of 5 tokens (aka 5 skill checks) for it to not be a net negative per match.
I think reducing the starting penalty and reducing the number of tokens would make it more usable. It'd still be better to run We'll Make It most of the time, but if you wanna run an empathy healing build it'd be usable then.
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Would this only apply during usual hatch times (i.e. after 2 gens), or if the gates are already open?
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False. Nothing can compete with the Pebble.
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@Jack11803 said:
And I’m saying they should change that. WGLF needs more ways to gain tokens. They should also add more score events for survival, as surviving doesn’t even fill itWhat even awards survival now? Self heal, struggling off the shoulder (does decisive count? never unlocked it), and escaping right?
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@Jack11803 said:
It’s drawback is no self care, and rng. It usually only saves 6 seconds anyway. That’s after it potentially got a teammate killedIts draw back is that it takes 4 skill checks for it to not be a net negative to healing.
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Yeah 3 & 4 never work. The most reliable way is to take a hit for a survivor on the hook which procs it for some reason.