UlvenDagoth
UlvenDagoth
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896713#Comment_896713
As long as it’s still in line with being a stall power and anti team work power, sure, I’m behind that.
These have been interesting so far.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896714#Comment_896714
Ok, but people chuck a tanty every day of the week on here over every single thing. Nobody had to open that thread to get "Legion nerf bad" from it.
"Imagine if they polled the community on changes" Yeah, imagine if they polled a community that has to maintain roughly 4:1 play rates of 2 teams which changes should happen. Do you think problematic perks like Balanced Landing would ever get touched? Of course not.
You also make the assumption that many game forums do that the absolutely miniscule amount of people here, who are the sorts of people a poll would actually reach, let alone would respond to it, actually reflects the community as a whole.
So just read the title and move on, ignoring all the feedback?
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@LoverOfDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896705#Comment_896705
This I feel is you are answering the wrong question here, the devs community managers never respond to the controversial or hot pressing matters for the reasons Ulven quoted above, because of "Bias" and "Emotion", of course there is going to be emotion and bias in everything but that does not exempt it from a read after a MAJOR patch. Many of these decisions seem to be made because they devs don't look at the majority of proper criticism because they classify it as said above. Imagine if they asked or polled a community on ptb or upcoming changes they would like to implement? Imagine how healthier and more concrete the changes would be because they asked their own community what THEY wanted, because guess what, it doesn't matter if it's their game, WE GIVE THEM MONEY, THEY WOULD BE NOTHING WITHOUT OUR SUPPORT.
@se05239 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896705#Comment_896705
The problem is that transparency ISN'T a bad thing either. Look at games like MHW and Deep Rock Galactic. The developers are sharing lots of the communities over there and even LISTENS to popular feedback and the communities aren't "demanding" that the developers implement things.
The fact that Behavior used to listen and care what their community makes it all even worse. The only valuable members of the community to them in the current era of DbD are those influencers on Twitch and people who buy cosmetics without a care in the world.
Both of you are 1000% correct.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896635#Comment_896635
Honestly, IMO, if all they did was reduce the stun, even by a third, and got rid of the stun for missing a hit and instead just had the regular missed attack cool down, Legion would be great again.
In my mind they need a full rework, or at least Deep WOunds being replaced with something else so we can avoid this in the future.
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I have to strongly disagree with you about them being "better", based on all of my reasons above.
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Yeah, My 9 page thread with 75 upvotes on the top post in General here? This one: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/109666/dramatic-but-this-is-how-i-feel-now/p1
Yeah i asked Peanits about it on his stream and he told me "Oh I saw it, but I will be honest I didn't read it. It was clear you were upset, and we only read threads when they are Calm and Collected."
Oh well, sorry for being upset you gutted my favorite Killer again and made me lose faith in all of you. When he saw it was me asking about Legion and if they saw how many people thought they were bad now he said "Oh There's gonna be some bias in this."
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896535#Comment_896535
I honestly haven't seen a a Dev respond to any of the numerous threads about legion over the past couple of days. Unfortunately the threads are getting buried due to the map and basement issues.
Yeah, I honestly don't think they care about Legion at all.
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@Colovorat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896635#Comment_896635
Well, if they can easily loop you, i don't belive you have 200+ hours on legion and can't mindgame survivors. Also not all killers have power to end chases fast
I was saying in general, Legion can be easily looped. Nice to see you are still attempting to insult me cause you have no real argument left. Most Killers have a power that is at least useful.
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Let's hope they look at this. Legion needs a complete rework and a removal of Deep Wounds from their power. Without a doubt, more now than ever. The changes done to Legion legit made me uninstall the game and lose all faith in BHVR.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896556#Comment_896556
I've never seen Wake Up! used in-game in my entire time playing DBD until that bug was revealed by a twitch streamer...
Once they revealed it than everyone started using it lmao... once it got patched than nobody ever touched Wake Up! Again...
I bet some people didn't even unlock Wake Up! for all their Survivors until that bug was revealed...
Exactly.
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@Colovorat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896580#Comment_896580
If you fanatical legion main, you will still play on him because he's so good right now. Power doesn't help in chases? Really? With new speed healing is so stupid against legion, like cleansing against plague in early game. Especially against self-care gamers. Survivors always injured, and that's how it helps in chases. This "buff" is reverted nerf? Well, you want from Bhvr to revert release nerf? You want to play old legion? I no, and no one wants it. Legion power now really good. With new speed he really make map pressure and everyone injuring, really helps in chases and founding survivors. Legion power is not mending. Mending is something like mangled effect, it's just little bit slowing healing. Legion power is injuring survivors and making map pressure
Former Fanatical Legion Main. I picked that name cause I played Legion despite them being bad, Despite the hate I got for playing them. I see now that it doesn't matter if I play them. They don't care. Sure they are injured, but guess what? They can loop you easily. You try and use the power to catch up? Well you can't down them unless you eat that 4 second slowdown and they get away during it. I don't want to play Old Legion and never have said that. I'm actively against it. Legion's power is worthless. You get no map pressure out of it cause it's not a threat. You can injure Survivors all day and it means nothing, cause Injure doesn't equal a down and that's the part Legion has a hard time with. Good try on attempting to make me mad again.
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Nice attempt to make me mad. I've played Legion almost exclusively since they came out. I know the Killer back and forth, inside and out. They have been weakened by this patch and had most of their utility and fun pulled away from them. They have no power in a chase and mending is even more of a joke now, since survivors can just sprint away to the other side of the map with no harm. How about you try and think about what you say? I am the Former Fanatical Legion main, with multiple mega threads of Legion rework ideas. I've played and beaten Red Rank Survivors with Legion. I'm telling you this was a nerf.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896563#Comment_896563
Well, right now Legion feels a lot better than before.
But like I said, I still want to see a few more buffs in the future. Two ideas I had involved granting Legion a speed boost when he hits the first survivor (this will make it much easier to chain hits) and allowing Legion to recover his power gauge very quickly if he doesn't hit anyone while in feral frenzy (which would let Legion use feral frenzy for map pressure).
"Feels better" is not the same as being better. I'll just repeat myself.
Their power doesn't help in a chase. This means he's just a loopable m1 Killer. The power does nothing against Injured survivors. He has a hard time downing survivors. He lost a ton of perk synergy and mending times got reduced. On top of that some add-ons got lowered when they didn't need it. Survivors can now sprint under the effect of Deep Wounds, making it more of a joke.
Nothing else to say at this point.
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@Frank_Sriracha said:
I think they just want to avoid the deep wounds "existential nightmare" Legion. I'm not sure why people say he's useless now, he's in a better place now without being totally annoying
I think they should just remove Deep Wounds from Legion and give them a rework cause right now they ARE useless cause you get no stall, no slowdown, a ton of perks are bad on them, a survivor can just run cross map while having Deep wound and mending times are super short. Their power doesn't help them at all in a chase so it boils down to super loopable m1 Killer fun times.
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@alphaholic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896556#Comment_896556
And those were scummy survivors. But that's my point, one doesn't excuse the other. Trash gameplay is trash gameplay. The argument that it's okay because survivors did something similar is just bogus.
I'm not arguing that. I'm saying people suck
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@Mister_Holdout said:
I just played Legion for the first time in a few days and he felt really good to me. The speed boosts he received actually helped out.
I never relied on slow down perks (other than Ruin) so the other stuff didn't bother me.
There are a couple more changes I want to see, but overall I feel that Legion is a bit better now.
They feel better cause the "buff" was just a reverted nerf. What you are feeling is how fast Legion should have been. All of the nerfs and the BS we already had to deal with are in no way made up for by the speed increase.
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Legion was one of the weakest Killers and they still felt the need to nerf them, gut them, and hang them up in the Town Square like a warning from the Mob. They didn't give Oni time to settle in like they claimed they would. No one is safe.
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@alphaholic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896549#Comment_896549
Well if you're a killer main and didn't read the forums or Twitter the past couple of days, that would make sense. But I'm talking about the people that DID know and were like "Hell yeah I'm exploiting it survivors have exploited [insert bug here] in the past."
I saw survivors do the same with the "Wake Up" bug. It's just bad people being bad.
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an "OwO" mask for Ghost Face and an "UwU" mask for the dead, burned, defiled corpse formally known as Legion.
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@Astrian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893232#Comment_893232
This is such a good idea, the devs won't use it though because it's too creative and interesting to play against.
If they would like to prove me wrong, it would be really cool if you could customize every summon-able Legion member.
They legit don't care. My Thread in general is gonna be ignored cause i wasn't "Calm and collected."
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Apparently cause I wasn't "Calm and collected" no Dev will likely ever read ANY of this thread. Though he replied to "FRICK YOU".... Didn't know my faith could go negative.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896069#Comment_896069
Legion was always an extremely flawed killer. I think they're trying different tweaks because they don't want to go into a full rework. Unfortunately a full rework is realistically the only way to fix Legion.
Exactly. They need so much help they need to just rework them. Remove Deep Wounds from their power for a start.
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interesting Ideas.
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This is almost as laughable as BHVR thinking Legion needed another nerf.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896451#Comment_896451
I mean it would be interesting to use the other members of the legion gang in-game!
But it seems too ambitious or gimmicky when not adding in a sort of boost... if it has no benefit in-game than it's just a wardrobe change if anything...
They'd also have to change Joeys posture, since he's basically Frank in-game except for the cosmetics that're exclusive to him. It would be cool if Joey had the same posture that 5th member of the Legion does... I mean GhostFace!
(That last part was clearly a joke...)
Or Meg with the mask. I let them go as I feel they are fans of the Legion. Or well, I used to let them go. I don't play anymore cause of this last "Update"
Also, you should read those two I linked.
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@supersonic853 said:
Having the other members of legion be usable in a rework using lockers is amazing and one of the best suggestions ive seen tossed around in these forums a couple of times i hope they use it if they do rework.
you'd like the two i linked.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/110587/legion-rework-idea-8912
You've done this 8911 times before?
Also, I don't agree with the scratch marks part... and the blindness and hemorrhaging side effect is kind of... niche... I wouldn't use that in a Killers primary power, it's more so an add-on thing.
I'm indifferent about the rest of the post except for the secondary power effect... that seems gimmicky/ambitious... I'd add a sort of boost or something to it, not a massive one though.
I like the concept of bringing in the other members of the legion though, that sounds cool.
Yeah, I've seen two other reworks that do something like that well.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/110567/legion-power-rework-idea#latest
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This also reminds me of "Mob Mentality" by Mong that i can link if you want. You two should talk about an idea together. @MongByeolBuddies
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Interesting, though i'd like it explained a bit more. Why it would be good and fun and all.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896214#Comment_896214
You can't tell me the devs made T and L walls with the intention of players running right through them.
You can't tell me they didn't put them there to give survivors time to run and hide or that they weren't added later.
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I really enjoy the idea of this, though sadly I don't see it being added. But, Go with the Blessing of The Legion. This is at least one of the more fun and original ideas i've seen lately.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896303#Comment_896303
I really don't care if you agree with me or not, in fact I much prefer people who don't agree with me, that's the basis to make a discussion - if we already are on the same page, what's there to talk about?
What I despise though is arrogance, and I'll leave you at that. Take care and I sincerely hope you'll find another game to enjoy in your free time :).
Imagine calling someone else arrogant when you called them out multiple times and then acted arrogant right back while telling them that they don't know anything about something they are well known for supporting. (oh and nice claims of constant 4ks and all with no proof. So "Killer Main, BTW") Have Fun in the Fog man. I'll come back when BHVR does something to earn my faith back. That's the main thing with all of this. I lost all faith in BHVR that they listen to feedback, know their own game, or understand anything about their community.
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They just need a complete rework and a removal of Deep Wounds from them at this point.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896234#Comment_896234
I'm not condescending, I'm just trying to be polite with someone that just said that people who don't see Legion as you do are either bad at using the killer or massive suck ups - not the best way to approach the other speaker, don't you think?
I mentioned you because you raged (and considering the caps lock, still raging?) about the changes what, 24 hours after the patch? It really is not enough time to digest what changed, and since you uninstalled the game I honestly thought you would have taken pleasure to read that actually Legion is still a good killer - and maybe you were just too quick in your judgement. Apparently that's not the case, well, I'm sorry then, what else can i say?
Yes, I do double pip a lot, I 32k a lot and 4K a lot, and yes, I think this makes me if not good with Legion, at least decent? I don't know how else should I see if I am or am not proficient with a killer, other than pips, kills and bp.
Raged? My friend, I am depressed over the changes. What I rage about is people like you who don't see what they did to Legion. I've explained myself till i'm blue in the face, fought for legion changes for months and even had two mega threads of ideas for them.... for what? For the Devs to ignore it all and nerf Legion who was already one of the weakest? For people like you to tell ME that I don't know my favorite Killer who I've done so much for? SO, don't mention me again. You obviously had no idea i'd be so against you. Legion is not a good Killer and wasn't before. They are not fun, original, or anything other than an M1 Killer with a useless power that punishes you for using it.
Deep wound should be removed from the power so they can finally balance Legion instead of nerfing them into the ground. Legion needs a full rework. That's it.
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Legion's body has been defiled and strung up in the town square with this update. They need to resurrect them completely and remove Deep Wound from there power to make sure this stops happening. Putting Deep Wound on them was a stupid idea cause of all the balance issues and it would be so much easier to make good but not broken without Deep Wounds.
I don't like the locker idea, myself. I liked "Mob Mentality" by Mong better, but this is an interesting thought pattern for a rework.
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AS far as the rest of the post. The movement speed only feels better cause it's a reverted nerf. Legion needs a rework and to have deep wound removed from the power completely so this crap stops happening.
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@Myers_Is_My_Dad said:
I think you missed the reason that they made the change to Deep Wound. It still keeps the person off generators for a small amount of time. It had to be changed to prevent abuse with certain perks (Nemesis)
Yeah but none of that justifies letting people run around with a wound that should make them bleed out if they don't apply pressure to it. Literally what Deep Wound is supposed to be, but you avoid it now by running a marathon. It was a very stupid change.
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Oh look, another biased Survivor.
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Interesting but they prolly won't bother to do it. I like the DW changes and honestly think DW needs to be removed from Legion or completely changed.
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Cause people like me somehow still enjoy the Killer. Even if I've left cause of the nerfs they just got (cause they were already weak) I'd fight anything that was going to "Remove" them from the game. They need a rework, starting with having Deep Wounds removed from the power and something else added.
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Legion, who was already weak, getting nerfed made me quit the game.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896196#Comment_896196
Well man, I do play Legion a lot and I do have a lot of success with them. If with the new patch you can't see how to make Legion work there are two possibilities: either you are not able to adapt, or you just don't want to.
If you don't want to, maybe because you like slow down Legion, that's totally fine - there's no reason to stick around a killer / game which you don't enjoy anymore.
If you're not able to... well, I'm sorry to hear that, maybe you just don't play Legion enough to understand the killer :).
Also, notice that I didn't say anywhere Legion was actually buffed, I just pointed out what were the changes and how those affect the game play. If, after reading what those changes are, you think that implicitly I'm stating that Legion was buffed that's all on your mind: in other words, you really think that the overall changes led to a buff, not me :).
What I can say (and in fact, I did) is that Legion, subjectively, is more fun to play.
Fun doesn't equal good. Fun is subjective. You have no argument for me. Everything you listed I see the negatives for, other than pallet vaulting speed. That is literally the only good thing in my eyes.
Don't even get me started on you saying I can't adapt or don't want too. I've played Legion almost exclusively SINCE THEY CAME OUT! I've had to roll with the punches and adapt and change and figure things out till I am sick of it now. I refuse to have faith in BHVR when they NERFED one of the weakest Killers. Literally the only thing Legion is good at is getting Emblems, Pips, and BPs which is prolly why you feel you are doing "Good" With them.
Oh and "you think that implicitly I'm stating that Legion was buffed that's all on your mind: in other words, you really think that the overall changes led to a buff, not me" HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THE THREAD WHERE IM MAD THEY NERFED THEM AND LEFT THE GAME?!
So you can take your insulting, condescending tone outta this talk right now or i'm not gonna bother talking to you in a thread YOU mentioned me in knowing i'd have issues with what you said.
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Cause your screen would be filled with junk all the time.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/892798#Comment_892798
Sorry to message you again, but, do you mind if I use some of the suggestions from your Legion megathread?
Go for it. You can use whatever you need.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/895251#Comment_895251
COD is worse than DBD. A lot of games are worse than DBD.
COD is not worse. Hell I didn't even get death threats on League of Legends and I do here, and LOL has an infamously toxic community.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/884707#Comment_884707
are they supposed to hide or something? Why do T and L walls exist? To run past them?
at the beginning of the game's life, yes. Looping just kinda started happening and the Devs ran with it till we now have people running around boxes to avoid a Killer. Can you imagine someone doing that in a movie with Myers or Jason?
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@Boosted_Dwight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/894122#Comment_894122
"You said Delete Legion right?"
*noises not known to humanity*
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@hematophagy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888575#Comment_888575
yea when I was playing legion just for the challenge, no ones deep wounds were going down at all and I could tell cause they had them up for a minute. Which is completely stupid
Yep, but some people still call this a buff somehow.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Saying nobody likes Legion is incorrect. But it is a very small number who do. Most survivors hate Legion because they're annoying to face. Not strong. Just annoying. Most killers don't like Legion because they're pretty weak. Legion was always a poorly designed killer. At this point Legion needs the Freddy treatment. They need a from the ground up rebuild.
Exactly what I think no. THere is no saving Feral Frenzy with Deep wounds tacked onto it.
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@Nobsyde said:
no click bait :P
Ok, just a bit of setting: I'm currently a rank 2 killer (ps4), I play a lot of Legion and was really unhappy on some of the changes before the patch went live. Now that I played 10+ games I think I can try to summarise how really the new Legion feels.
The awesome
Vaulting speed.
The change in vaulting speed is so important, it cannot be understated. After the first big nerf to Legion they felt so sluggish and unarmed against good loopers, but now a survivor vaulting a window or a pallet gets itself in a very bad position, especially if they try to juke you. Very, very good.
The good
Feral Frenzy speed and the new pin add-ons.
The speed improvement is noticeable, even if not that groundbreaking as the vaulting speed is you can still create some new interesting plays, like blocking vaults or paths with much more ease.
The new pin add-ons mechanics are probably taking the spot though. Now there's a feeling to accomplish something other than simply injuring other survivors every time you chain a deep wound, and even if the debuff applied to survivors is only for 60 seconds, it can be important, especially against swf groups which would heal each other almost instantaneously. For now I'm just using the pin which applies the broken status effect, but depending on your builds others can work as well.
The bad (?)
Here's the thing: do you play a slow down Legion? If so, you will be really unhappy about the decreased mending time and the FF hits not applying any debuffs without add-ons. Forget about a Sloppy Butcher build with knife add-ons, it just won't work.
If instead you weren't relying on slow down builds, but you wanted an active one, maybe by using my sweetheart Save The Best For Last (STBFL)... you're in for a very good surprise.
Yes, STBFL tokens cannot be collected during feral frenzy, but also the opposite is true: you can't lose them.
What this means is that once you gain at least 4 tokens, which is not that difficult, your basic hits will start flowing very quickly, but you don't need to lose 4 tokens to down the obsession anymore.
Once you see her, use your FF for the first hit, and you'll preserve your stacks. By doing so you could even find someone else nearby you didn't notice, and actually saving the best for last :P - either way, you'll gain something from the situation.
Trust me: it's slightly slower to gain momentum with your tokens, but it's very easier to maintain them - especially because you can hit anyone in FF without second thoughts.
What about mending time, though? Well, there's an unexpected outcome coming from the quicker mending time - since a lot of survivors will (wrongly) mend as soon as you go in search of their team mates, chances are that eventually you'll see their red heart beat before FF runs out. Now what you can do is to apply your pin effect even to the original survivor, or in any case you'll have an idea on where an injured survivor is located.
I won't go so far to say that this is a buff - it still is a nerf because of the implications regarding slow down builds, but you can work around it and make it work anyway.
Conclusions
Is Legion fun to play? Yes, much more than before, a lot thanks to vaulting speed and the new pins.
Is Legion a viable killer on high rank? Well, it's not Spirit, but as I said, I'm rank 2 and play mainly Legion this season, so by definition I should say yes to this as well.
Should Legion be changed from here? I think some of their add-ons are borderline useless, and the FF ending stun is still slightly too long - I would take away between 0.2 and 0.5 seconds from it, just to see how it goes.
But mostly, should @UlvenDagoth reinstall the game and try Legion out? Yes of course :P.
Why do you think I got so upset in the first place? I tried them and instantly saw how badly they got screwed over. So no, I won't. Anyone that calls this a buff doesn't play Legion enough to understand the Killer (at least in my mind) That or they are massive suck ups (not exactly you). The movement speed "buffs" only feel better because they are a reverted nerf. That's all. Legion has no power in a chase, even less against survivors who stay injured and are any good at loops. The Deep wound is worse than worthless now, and none of the "Buffs" out weigh even the nerfs that come with them, let alone the 4 second slowdown, losing 50% of your power on an m1 and long long cool down we already suffered with. At the end of the day, Legion is a very loopable m1 Killer still, now with less perk synergy and even less slowdown.