Tsulan
Tsulan
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SBMMR was the best thing that could happen to DbD. Because now everyone can see how unbalanced the game is.
So no, lets keep the SBMMR and balance the game instead.
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But the whole sentence makes more sense in regard of the first freddy nerf. O_o
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725391#Comment_2725391
As a Freddy main, he really needed his slowdown addons nerfed. Survivors complained about forever Freddy, because he could stack slow down addons + slowdown perks.
Instead of just nerfing the slowdown addons, they nerfed his power in general, which nobody really had an issue with.
Uhm what @NoOneKnowsNova meant was the first freddy nerf, which happend 1 week after his release. There was no forever freddy build or anything like that. Survivors simply disconnected against one of the weakest killers back then.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2725229#Comment_2725229
First off, just to start, a lot of these Killers are really good at tunneling. I'll try to mention it when I think it applies. Since there isn't any DS, BT or other anti-tunnel/time-wasting perks, tunneling is going to be uber strong.
Nurse just breaks base-game mechanics. I don't think anyone is gonna argue with that. Also, Dead Hard is really good against her. If she wants you dead, you're dead.
Spirit is still going to have a busted bonkers chase power. Again, no Dead Hard really hurts. No Iron Will also really hurts. Spirit would probably be one of the easiest Killers to tunnel with. Wait for the unhook, phase and down the injured guy since they are gonna be easy to track in phase since no IW.
Bubba is going to be a camping machine. With no perks like Kindred, BT or DS; he's going to be getting at least 2 Kills a game, if not more. Also, he eats pallets and even if you do rescue, no BT means you and the rescuer are both #########.
Pyramid Head is also going to be really hard to deal with. His power is still really good, he can hit multiple people whilst they are unhooking and no BT means at least one person is going down. His Cages are uber strong because you can guess where they are going, post up and make it move, which wastes more of the Survivors time. He's probably the one I am least worried about tho.
Twins are already very strong (and really unfun) because they are great at two things. Slugging and camping. No BT for camping, no Unbreakable for slugging means Twins will run absolutely wild.
Interesting. You base how strong the killers are on how good they could camp or tunnel when survivors don't have second chance perks.
When very little would change for survivors. Sure, some chases would take considerably less time without DH. But the core issues of gen speed and safe loops or holding w meta don't require perks. So little would change once people get used to it.
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
I'm tired of seeing killers cry every time I'm on this site. Enough with crying and start constructively jotting down points and factors that could make the role better.
And PLEASE for the love of god, stop saying that the side needs to be "fun". If killers find something "fun" then the survivors would probably feel the opposite, vice versa.
Make it "balanced" or "fair". I'm tired of seeing "oh, playing killer is unfun." BS.
And if you still don't get why "fun" can't be a medium for good balancing, then watch this:
That's all.
Why shouldn't killers cry, when this worked perfectly for survivors in the past?
As someone already mentioned, Freddy was nerfed 1 week after his release, not because he was OP, but because he wasn't fun to play against.
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@Pulsar said:
In terms of just no perks, no items, no add-ons and no offerings, just base-game mechanics?
Nurse.
Spirit.
Bubba.
Pyramid Head.
Twins.
I feel like all of those Killers would be problems to varying degrees if we were to take away all perks, offerings, add-ons and items. I can explain further, if it is requested.
Also, for the record, I thought about putting Blight on here, but basekit Blight is actually just good.
I'm actually curious about this.
Please elaborate.
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Probaría con atención al cliente de playstation. Lo más probable es que hubo algún error del sistema.
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Switch to killer and find out!
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@jamally093 said:
So had a match with a camper in the end game chat he talks about how it's fun to camp. How tell me how is it fun to do nothing but stare at a survivor doing nothing on hook while his team gets all the gens done and leaves. Like farming is fun in the way of extra BP but tell me how camping can be considered fun.
What he found fun was your reaction.
That's it. Not more, not less.
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Just open the gate yourself once all gens have been completed. Avoid any further contact once the gates are open. Send a smiley when they escape with 11k bloodpoints and move on to the next instant match.
OR
Simply play survivor.
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Imagine calling one of the most controversial and OP perks "garbage".
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Fascinating how this went from "are the devs reading this" to "whats the definition of a game dev".
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Totally missed the loadout on my phone. My bad!
Now that i think more about it, i´ve seen some weird matchups lately.
Maybe they altered the MMR to not only face players of the same MMR but from a wider range too. I´ve even just watched a streamer talk about this. But why would they do that?
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DbD was free for a week on the Epic Game Store.
Rockstar still has problems with cheaters in GTA5 after having a free week on the EGS. Sure, many got banned after the first 6 months, but before that the cheating got so blatant, that it made the game unplayable for most normal players.
So i wouldn´t be optimistic about a solution any time soon.
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Survivors constantly complain about this or that killer. Asking to nerf already mediocre killers. Devs give in and as a result there are only 3 or 4 viable killers out of a roster of 26.
Now you face only the same killers and wonder why?
I mean, what did people expect?!
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718399#Comment_2718399
You cant balance a Killer when its possible to have 2 teams like these
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8BEFGLHCZERB/image.png
Believe or not, I didnt tunnel/camp on both match. And 1 newbie died with 5.000 BP
You can only balance between 2 sides IF these 2 survivors team have equal strength, which is 2 newbies from the Left go to Right team, 2 veteran from Right team go to the Left.
But for that part, I would demand Survivors to have something to defense again tunneling & camping. Because only the Right team can punish tunneler/camper.
Whats wrong with those images? Grades only serves as indicator on how much someone played since the last reset.
Grades have nothing to do with the MMR which is hidden.
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As a rule of thump, if the killer is on the map, he´s camping.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719834#Comment_2719834
Dont have time to browse the forums when I'm queueing since mine are instant.
No need to brag, killer main.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719860#Comment_2719860
Congrats on your 10k posts btw
My wha..?
Oh thank you! I didn´t even pay attention
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@The_Medicine_Man said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719875#Comment_2719875
Well let's have them nerf everything killers have. Then people will stop playing killer and we can finally have some change in this game. It'll be fun to see what they're gonna do when that happens.
They´ll simply make it f2p on epic.
Oh wait...
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All we have to do to win as nurse is main her for 5 1/2 years. *noted
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@Marigoria said:
Some people really have too much time on their hands. Do teachers not give out homework anymore?
I can´t speak for others. But i usually spend my survivor queue browsing this forum.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718856#Comment_2718856
I have seen this posted before and dismissed it at first, but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. The idea is already in use and there isn't issues with it, so I would say push it out.
Maybe just have the survivor teleported to random hook on the opposite side of the map when they are hooked. It's already been used with Pyramidhead cages without issues, why not just add it to hooks also. The developers already have the code in the game, just make a random hook appear, then disappear after an unhook just like a Pyramidhead cage.
Killers aren't punished and survivors can't be effectively facecamped.
What when the game is almost over, you hook a survivor and he teleports to the other end of the map, next to the gate that is about to be openend?
You would take any strategic value of hooks away.
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@microppman said:
Before I start, ill preface this by saying i did this, and i have been enjoying the game so much ever since.
Start by not running 4 slowdowns, just run perks you think are fun/cool, and then stop caring about 4king every game. You'll more then likely start getting absolutely destroyed for a while until your mmr lowers to a level you can play at, but once you do, you'll find you will enjoy the game far more.
You can also start playing a killer that may have seemed fun to you, but you maybe have been intimitated by, due to maybe the killer being difficult, after i stopped sweating i picked up billy, and never looked back.
Also, if you're having trouble justifying this, just think to yourself, if you can't win at the mmr you're at, do you deserve to be at that mmr?
I genuinely think the comp sweat that everyone has tried to do ever since mmr came out has killed all enjoyment of it, and i dont like seeing people unhappy, sorry for kinda a rant but maybe give this a shot if you're not happy with the game right now.
The MMR isn´t the issue. The terrible balancing IS the issue.
Now if you recommend killers to simply "enjoy" losing so often until they get matched with newbie survivors, where the matches are finally fun. Then you ruin the fun for both sides. For the new survivors and the old killers.
If you don´t enjoy playing killer anymore, then just switch to survivor.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718856#Comment_2718856
And those proposals should be hastily ignored (and will be once they decide to act against facecamping).
In any case limiting BPs wont make a dent on the issue, people who camp do it for 3 motives:
- Trolling: being camped on hook is infuriating and a lot of people get a kick out of pissing off others, trolling is its own reward, they dont care about BPs.
- Venting anger: people who got angry because someone looped them too much, clicked their flashlights too much or tbaged, they dont care about BPs, they just want revenge.
- Securing a kill: otherwise they feel like they lost they care more about kills than BPs you could reduce the gains to 0 and still the importance of kills will override the 0 BPs, this is the only group who could care about BPs but then again, killing>bps.
The only real way to punish camping and making it less of an issue is if Survivors have an easier way of knowing when its happening and they react accordingly by rushing the gens left so if someone camps, they get only 1 kill, plus the camped person has the solace the other 3 got out and is less likely to tilt, reducing the odds of the troll getting a reaction from the camped person.
There is a fourth one: killers that don´t care about anything and only want survivors to have a bad time. Those killers basically got bullied several matches in a row and now they take it out on the first survivor they find. Sort of like "if i can´t have fun, neither will you" thingy.
Years ago there was a proposal to give survivors inbuilt Kindred. Showing every other survivor where the other survivors and especially the killer was.
But luckily, this idea was scrapped. Because it would greatly improve survivors gen efficiency. Since only 1 survivor would run for a unhook. It would put killers (even the non camping ones) under even more pressure.
BBQ was a step into the right direction. Rewarding killers for hooking everyone once. The devs should continue on that path.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718715#Comment_2718715
qe can do the same for solos. If you play solo you gain 500% more bps. And if you play swf you only get 100%, as usual. This would incentívate play solo
Something like that could work, if it went both ways. Killers that earn a bonus for facing SWF. Even though the 500% bonus seems a bit to much.
But thats a whole different thread.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718686#Comment_2718686
Having a punishment for playing the game in a way doesnt sound unhealthy to me, after all a lot of strats have punishments by either side, rush gens on the outskirts? get 3gened, predrop pallets in an excessive way? create deadzones, attempt a mass slug? people get picked up by the others, split damage? people get mass healed, put all your apples on the Hex basket? everything gets cleansed in the first minute etc etc etc, obviusly nobody is advocating for bans most people are asking for ways to know when a facecamp is happening so they can push gens without requiring Kindred.
Camping against Solos should have a stronger punishment by the Solos instead of what we have now, where camping is super effective against them.
Thats not what some people mean with punishment. The proposals for punishment seem to go as far as limiting players from playing and/or preventing them from earning any bloodpoints.
But instead we should reward killers that don´t camp with more bloodpoints.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718666#Comment_2718666
If a killer doesn't catch a survivor, due to lack of skill or the map being very poorly generated, what would you like the other survivors to do? They have no one to save and thus the only points they can actually get is from escaping, which 5K of that (usually a whole quarter) is from escaping
Camping the killer? What is this, a new mechanic you've designed to argue against something that doesn't exist? Or do you mean when each survivor has to find out the killer is camping because yet again, people have to continue reiterating that not everyone SWF is a 4 man stack of comms players.
ALSO, what am I trying to counter? You just can't flat out admit you're wrong, ever. Survivors do gens because they have to ( it's literally how they escape ) killers camp because sometimes they have to (end game) and the majority of them camp at 3 - 5 gens because they want to.
Because my name is Sean, Senzu is from a TV show I've never watched (me and my friends used to have similar names on Xbox, they liked DBZ so we all changed over to Senzu 'animal') after years of being asked about DBZ and what I liked about it, I decided to change it with something simple that removes me from being asked about DBZ but also incorporates my real name.
I´m not trying to counter anything. I simply asked why killers apparently "deserve" punishment.
What i´d like the other survivors to do? Well, as i already said, totems (to prevent NOED), chests or some kind of interaction with the killer. Because both sides profit from interacting with each other (at least points wise).
Camping the killer: camping or better yet face camping is often regarded as the killer standing still in front of the hook. Now camping the killer is exactly the same. Survivors standing in proximity to the camping killer. Also motionless and waiting for him to leave. I even posted some screenshots about survivors that wasted a whole gen by simply standing in proximity to a camping killer. Instead of like, you know, do gens.
Which btw is a weird behavior. Since you yourself said, survivors have little to do apart from gens. This behavior suddenly stops when the killer camps. Thus rewarding the killer for camping.
I firmly believe that the biggest part of camping killers would simply stop or at least reduce camping, once they would only get 1 kill from it. But since survivors reward the killer by not doing what they usually do when the killer doesn´t camp (gens). It turns into a habit. Because a killer that gets more kills by camping than by playing without camps, will stick to that playstyle. Simply because it works.
So far nobody has brought up any good arguments on WHY killers should be punished. Therefore i propose something else. Reward killers for not camping.
The easiest solution that comes to my mind would be to simply upgrade BBQ: Once the killer has hooked everyone once, the killer can get another 4 stacks by hooking every survivor a second time. Resulting in a possible bonus of 200%. While the devs are on it, they could also upgrade WGLF. Now of course, the amount of stacks and the way stacks are gained would have to be updated. How about 2 stacks for a unhook and 1 stack for protection hits, cleansing/booning a totem? Which still results in 8 possible stacks for a bonus of 200%.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718277#Comment_2718277
Face camping doesnt only mean "blocking the hook" which it isnt doable anymore, its means camping the hook within a very small distance, lets not devolve into "technicality" arguments like "your exact words could mean something a tiny bit different of what my words mean so your whole argument is invalid from your first post", this forums are a mess but I think it deserves better.
What kind of argument against punishing camping is "Survivors have to waste time looking for a match"? Do Survivors queue times affect gen times? Are gen times slashed by 40 seconds if they had to wait 5 minutes to get into a match? Do the guy who gets camped enjoy being camped after a long queue? one thing is the time you "waste" looking for a match from starting your computer, running the game, clicking search and waiting and another is the time you have inside a match to do what you have to do towards your objective, they dont relate on the slightest, dont derail.
Please, give arguments that counter my exposition about "camping is way too effective against Solos and so the punishment is not as hard as it should" instead of trying to derail the discussion, recurring to cheap semantic arguments or "whataboutthism" because right now you have given none.
Was face camping unfair and unhealthy? Absolutely! Thats why the devs made unhooking from every angle possible. Strangely enough, they kept the tight hook angle for the killer, which still can be body blocked by the survivors.
Now fearing a punishmend for playing a game in a intended way doesn´t really sound healthy to me.
Hell, i´ve even seen a thread where someone proposed "punishing killers with the removal of their entire bloodpoint gains for the next 2 matches, IF the killer was still in the hooks proximity after 10 seconds". Why would anyone even consider playing killer, if something like this was in place? We all know why the hook timer doesn´t pause when the killer is nearby. Because survivors simply looped the killer around the hook, to abuse the mechanic. If there was any way of punishment in place, i guarantee you that survivors would go out of their way to force that punishment on the killer they dislike playing against.
You brought up survivor queues. What do you think is the cause behind the growing survivor queues?
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716722#Comment_2716722
not a lot of bloodpoints - It's the killers choice
Being camped is boring - again, it's the killers choice
These 'counter points' are absolutely hilarious.
and as for your paragraph...
Yes, sure, survivors "rush gens" but they HAVE to actively move to another gen to win, survivors can't stay on the same gen the entire game and earn anything from it, a killer can camp a survivors until they're dead and then they've won against that survivor, the dead survivors does not matter anymore to the rest of the game, and the other 3 escaping isn't suddenly a win for that dead survivor because they got camped.
When survivors gen rush, they´ll leave with very little bloodpoints in comparison to a "normal" match. - survivor choice
camping the killer - survivor choice
I agree, your "counter points" are... hilarious.
Btw, what happend to your nickname? Someone added a A, may i ask what the reason was?
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The MMR does a great job at showing people how unbalanced the game actually is.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718394#Comment_2718394
What about the anti camping perks then?
You also think "genrushing" is intended right?
I think one of the mods posted a recent video about them doing something about facecamping, so I guess it is not "intended" anymore.
Well it was a core mechanic for over 5 years, that was intended to be in the game from the very beginning. When they come up with a "solution" it better is something that doesn´t punish normal gameplay. But we both know it will probably be handled like the mori and key situation.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718399#Comment_2718399
Well judging by how they balance around stats (pinhead, Freddy) the future ain’t looking bright
Correct.
Now 2 things can happen:
- they take the data from the higher mmr players to balance the game accordingly (like any pvp game does).
- they take the data from the lowest mmr players to balance the game and face the consequence that fewer and fewer people are willing to play on high mmr.
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The mmr made the balance issues more visible. Now the devs need to decide what to do with this kind of information.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3DvvOQI04&t=46s&ab_channel=DeadbyDaylight@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718286#Comment_2718286
Where did the devs say "camping was intended from the beginning of the game"? Or is that something you're just assuming?
Because if camping was really intended, why did they create BT and DS? Why did they remove the option from the killer blocking the hook?
Here you go. Timestamp 0:40
I don´t assume anything. Everything i say is based on facts.
Oh and before i forget it. Insidious also exists.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2718286#Comment_2718286
Many people believe this game can't ever die/everyone comes back to it if they quit. Since the game has no current competition and all previous competition has failed, it gives people a sort of cocky sense of "We can make any change we want and nothing serious will occur in reaction. Where are you going to go?"
When people are fed up, they will simply go and play something else. Even when dbd hardly has any competition, there are tons of other games that can be enjoyed. Especially when they don´t have punishing mechanics implemented.
This is a game after all. It should be fun. No one would want to play a game where they get punished because another player simply dislikes something and demands punishment.
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@SleepyWillo said:
Camping and tunneling (unless at endgame) is basically refusing to play the game and ensuring someone else can't play either.
MMR can't be blamed because if you try it at high MMR you'd be gen rushed and barely scrape a single kill.
If a killer is so bad and skill less that they have to use a tactic that would only punish bad players I have little sympathy.
That said, this is a game. No matter what happens in a game there is no justification for irl threats/insults.
When survivors rush gens its considered an effective way to play the game.
When the killer does the same with his objective, its considered being bad.
Weird, huh?
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@Raccoon said:
Seems like a healthy way to keep one of the most popular games on Steam alive, for sure.
I'm also amused at these 'gen-rush' and 'camping' experiments that just perpetuate the very behavior people hate seeing.
I know it is anecdotal, but I don't really see enough hard-camping/gen-rushing for it to even register on my care-o-meter.
The moment they start to punish people for playing the game in an intended way (because lets face it, camping was intended from the very beginning of the game). Is the moment they´ll lose a significant potion of their playerbase.
Its actually kinda ridiculous how people want the amount of players they play with to be reduced.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717597#Comment_2717597
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R84C37ZY6Q1D/image.png
Here's the full quote, so that it is not misrepresented.
The issue is, that they can´t "fix" this without making survivors lives extremely easier/killers lives extremely harder.
Old BT also protected the unhooking survivor, which made hook bombing something completely risk free. Punishing every killer along the way. Not just the campers.
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@Impartiality said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717614#Comment_2717614
Then stop camping for kills and you might actually be in the correct MMR where a survivor doesn’t run you for 3 gens lol.
I´ll try to stop camping for kills. Especially since i´m obviously the survivor on those screenshots.
Apparently your mmr is low enough to have killers get more hooks per gen. If you want any tipps on how to escape and raise your mmr, just message me in a new thread about getting better.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717614#Comment_2717614
Doesnt matter, my argument about Solos having too little information to punish facecamping properly still stands, more screenshots wouldnt give a proper counter to what I say:
Solos still have to go near the hook, see the Killer there and go back to a gen wasting a lot of time, even if those 2 were to reach the hook and go back after confirming the camp you still had to finish 4 gens as 3, with those 2 having lost roughly ~25 seconds of gen work, lets say you finish yours, guy on hook dies, the other 2 are around 60-70%, Killer is free to patrol again and you still have to finish 3 gens, someone else gets downed and facecamped, now you have to finish 2 gens as 2 in those 120 seconds, perfectly doable, guy on hook dies, NOED activates and its a gamble if someone else goes down or you manage to open the gates before he finds another victim. Result of the game, best scenario is 2 kills and 2 escapes, worst is 3 kills for doing absolutely nothing with a strat that requires very little skill.
The problem is not Solos doing what you show on the screenshots, the problem is facecamping Solos leads to that situation because they lack info and in turn it makes camping much more effective (which they want to curb).
On another note we are talking about facecamping and punishment not about generator speeds, you can create another thread to discuss that, lets not derail the current one.
@Munqaxus I like your experiment.
Well lucky for you, face camping was removed with the introduction of swivel hooks. Problem solved!
Oh and on regard on the "survivors would waste to much time" thingy. Right now survivors HAVE to waste time in order to get a decent match for everyone. If survivors play as efficient as possible, then the match ends in less than 5 minutes and survivors escape with 11k bloodpoints.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717569#Comment_2717569
Still, you have to reach the hook, notice the victim is getting camped and get back to your gen and resume work, thats roughly 20-30 seconds per Survivor just walking from one point to another if the Survivors dont have a decent lead on gen progress 120 seconds is not enough to finish all gens and open the doors.
Thats why the problem is "camping is way too rewarding against Solos", once everyone know whats happening and how to deal with it, you have around 70-80 seconds of hook time to work freely, not enough unless you have 2 gens worth of progress around the map and I suppose thats what they want to tone down, also one of the problems with camping is hardened Solo Survivors will rush the first gens asap because they know if they get a camper and have 0 progress nobody gets out so you cant afford to stop working on gens to cleanse dulls, open chests, set boons etc... lately and thanks to certain streamers, content creators and forum drama queens Killers are going bonkers with camping because "boons are countered by camping somehow" and people are adapting to it, its a vicious cycle and the result is overall worse games for everyone.
P.D. the progress bar on both hook and gen indicates around ~20 seconds elapsed.
I should have made more pictures. Since they stayed almost the whole 80 seconds of the gen.
Oh and the "killers going bonkers" thing is more a direct reaction to how quickly gens go. Since it isn't exactly motivating to lose 3 gens by the time you get the first hook.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717577#Comment_2717577
According to a recent devstream: Yes. They are still looking for a solution. As the lead designer said: Camping is a thorn in our side.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717505#Comment_2717505
Do you think no one can read your passive aggressive "You only want this so you can exploit it"?
I'm sure they'll handle it just like moris and keys.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717193#Comment_2717193
The reason I don't want the hook system removed is because I actually enjoy sneaking my way around the killer and going for a safe unhook. I like that dynamic, I like having to figure out when it's safe to unhook and going for it. I -enjoy- that part of gameplay.
But you decided to immediately jump on the 'survivors bad' bandwagon, didn't you?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717203#Comment_2717203
Camping is way more effective, even against solid survivors, than the forums will dare to admit. Read @Munqaxus ' post, for example.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717286#Comment_2717286
Moving the goalpost, buddy. That PTB shows that the devs intended for camping to be removed, they just don't know how to do it yet. And they recently stated that they're making another attempt to get rid of it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717331#Comment_2717331
It's only a free perk slot if you consider BT a mandatory pick, which in and of itself just lends credence to the idea that camping needs to be addressed. And unsafe hooks would still be extremely unsafe.
Yes, a killer could still keep an eye on the hook, but if you can force the killer to keep distance to the hook if there's no reason for them to be near it, you can get a slightly unsafe unhook, but there'd still be a possibility for accomplishing -something-. As opposed to the current state, where a killer just stands on the hook and the best you can do is a trade, with a very high chance of a free extra kill.
But I appreciate that you're considering the scenario and looking at it in earnest, because the majority of forumgoers will simply say 'Something was tried once, five flipping years ago, so that means that it's impossible to fix', and refuse to consider -anything-.
With the time that has passed since then. Do you really think they are still searching for a solution?
Like... really?
Just accept that camping is here to stay, because it was designed as a core mechanic since the beginning.
Which also means that there won't be a punishment for it.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717281#Comment_2717281
No, thats the exact problem me and the dev refer to, it actually supports my argument.
Against a camper Solos have no clue of the camping so they have to quit the gen, get there and either figure whats happening and walking away (which gives the Killer a lot of extra time since its work not being done on a gen) or being tricked and getting downed (which essentially dooms a third Survivor since now its almost impossible to get all gens done before those 2 die), thats why devs want to tone down how rewarding it is, especially against Solos.
Im almost sure in that screenshot only 1 got out tops (and using Hatch), since 1 is almost dead on hook, 1 down and 4 gens to go against a facecamper is a 3K most of the time.
Look at the progress bar of my gen. They didn't exactly wait 10 seconds. But wasted more than a minute, by standing there and pointing.
Survivors can spend up to 120 seconds on the hook. More than enough time to complete a gen. Unless survivors waste that time and complain about camping.
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@Marc_123 said:
Just announced - every killer weapon is being replaced with cotton balls!!
So survs can be happy - no more slugging or hooking or camping ever.
...so any suggestions about what to complain now?
Queues
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717066#Comment_2717066
The -very first- PTB was testing out anti-camping measures. They've come out and stated, again, that they're looking for ways to get rid of camping. They are trying to get rid of it, it's not intended.
And insidious has application outside of camping, it just works worse outside of it, but you could use it to camp a half-finished gen and use that as bait instead of another survivor, for example.
And again: Killers should be punished for camping because -they're the ones doing it-.
I love your phrasing! "insidious has application outside of camping, it just works worse outside of it, but you could use it to camp a half-finished gen"
I remember that PTB btw. Devs tested how stopping the hook progress would work when the killer is to close. Aaaaand survivors abused it by looping the killer around the hook.
You could say that they outplayed themselves.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717066#Comment_2717066
Camping is intended gameplay, what isnt intended is for it to be that effective against Solos, they already stated something like "we dont want to get rid of camping but we want to tone how effective it is" some months ago in a Dev diary or Q&A session.
What devs want is if you want to camp you are free to but take on account youll get severely punished, which almost never happens against Solos.
The real problem is a different one. I think those 2 screenshots explain it better than 1000 words:
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716956#Comment_2716956
Camping isn't the 'intended gameplay'. The devs themselves have stated this, but they just haven't found an anti-camping solution yet. You can keep giving ideas on rewarding killers for -not camping-, but that's not going to change things if camping can easily net you a no effort 2K against most survivor teams you'll face.
Camping needs to not be remotely viable before it can really start to die out.
Camping actually IS intended gameplay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS3DvvOQI04&t=125s&ab_channel=DeadbyDaylightTimestamp 0:44
Also, if camping wasn´t intended gameplay, then why does Insidious exist?
So again, why punish killers for camping? Which obviously was intended from the beginning?
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2716800#Comment_2716800
Are you legitimately going to try to argue '5 are fewer than 12 so therefor survivors need nerfing'?
Because a m1 holder doesn´t impact the game only for himself. Since gens are progressed for everyone. Not individually. Even though its an interesting concept, that each survivor would have to complete 5 gens individually. Which would outbalance the above mentioned 12 hook issue. But i think 20 gens in total would be a bit to much. Survivors would only do gens, which doesn´t vary much from what they do now, but still. Maybe something in between, or even better: a additional objective instead of so many gens. But this belongs to another thread.
Oh. You actually ARE going for that angle. Okay.
Well, I would recommend that you play the game first, before you get into any kind of argument about balance. You know, figure out how the game works, and its nuances.
Actually you started this argument. As you said: "Survivors have to be hooked three times for a reason." I just completed the logic behind this statement of yours.
That being said, i have probably played this game a little longer than you. Watched how it changed over the years for both sides.
Now let me ask again: Why should killers be punished for camping?
Wouldn´t it be better to reward killers that don´t camp instead of punish them? Both sides could profit from rewarding killers that don´t camp. Punishing players for playing the game in an intended way, sounds simply wrong, doesn´t it?