Tsulan
Tsulan
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565490#Comment_3565490
Rewarding people for playing bad to increase the odds that they would win against someone that plays better than them seems like a terrible game design choice. This gap should be closed by learning to play better, not by some stupid mechanic.
If the other side is playing better than you, you should not have such a mechanic, because why even? The better side should win...
How is a slow killer supposed to catch up then? When someone runs around a rock, the Huntress can´t throw her axe above it. Break the chase? Then on a new chase, the survivor runs towards the same/similar spot.
There is a difference between survivor and killers hit boxes, that requires the killer to run a bigger circle around a obstacle. Thats no skill issue. He can´t just run a smaller circle.
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Devs tested the removal of Bloodlust for a weekend a while ago.
Since we still have Bloodlust, it´s save to assume that it didn´t go as expected.
I´d be ok with removing Bloodlust as long as the hit boxes of killers and survivors are the same. So survivors can´t make up for the higher killer speed, by simply hugging a wall.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565436#Comment_3565436
And what exactly did you mean with far from ok in that case?
OPs statement was that she was Ok to play.
I said the kill rates were far from Ok. She received a rework, because the kill rates were inconsistent. We had a few streamers that only killed with condemnation and normal players that could never condemn. A killer who´s power revolves about condemnation should have a consistent way to apply that power.
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Had a survivor complain about face camping, when i didn´t. Surprise, the next match i was matched against the same group of survivors and proceeded to actually face camp. (the real face camping, where no one could unhook because the prompt wouldn´t show up).
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564884#Comment_3564884
Before her rework she was one of the highest kill rate killers even in high MMR, I wouldn't really use kill rates as evidence as to why she needed a buff :p
See above ;)
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564884#Comment_3564884
Her killrates have been high since even before the rework because people are so bad they will die even to meme killers like what she was before. However I do think she was a bad killer before and they made her better, just correcting you, she has always had a high killrate.
And were did i say that they were low? I only said that they were far from ok.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565152#Comment_3565152
What are you talking? Thats the hight of fun and how you outplay the killer. Bonus points if there is a pallet at that trash heap and you can get the killer get exactly nothing for that fun chase, but also know if they break off that pallet will stay for later. Fun.
I know, i know. I´m burrying my own grave with this statement. But to me, there is little skill and 0 mind games involved in running around the same piece of wood. So its simply not a good chase.
Survivors often say, that they love mind games, but then loop the same small tile without any view blockers ad nauseum. Killer can´t moonwalk or mind game or anything. Its just boring. Especially on slow killers.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565152#Comment_3565152
Sounds like it's time to uninstall.
I didn´t know people would instantly uninstall over that statement. But hey, i heard Civ is a pretty good game. Maybe check it out.
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A good chase consists of not running around the same piece of wood for 5 times.
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@mecca said:
The skill required to play survivor is so ridiculously high that everyone on the teams has to be like pros. It's insane. Matchmaking will never fix that. Survivors need buffed in all aspects.
Is it bad if i don´t know if you are serious or joking?
I mean, survivors have gotten so many base kit changes in the past, that i don´t know where else the devs could make it any easier for survivors, without making them blatantly OP.
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Unpopular Opinion: I always find it amusing, when people complain how killer perks are not restrictive enough, don´t have enough pre-requisites to trigger. Meanwhile the top survivor perks pre-requisite to trigger is to be just injured.
The game will never be fairly balanced, as long as SWF exists. I´m not saying that people shouldn´t be allowed to play with their friends, but the game was never designed around it. SWF players have a lot of "inbuild" information perks and no amount of HUD elements or status icons will ever make up for the high information level that voice chat provides. A thing that mose people don´t want to be in the game.
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Probably because her kill rates were far from Ok.
May i suggest you always keep a tape on you?
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564428#Comment_3564428
Fun is subjective to everyone.
Many killers see only 4K is fun, dying as survivor doesnt matter.
For some survivors, 8 hooks, meme around and let everyone escape is fun. But escape as survivor is fun.
You cant put your 32.000 BP and dying as survivor is fun, into anyone else. And demand other survivors should do totems, open chests just to guarantee the whole team dying with more BP, because its fun for you, mean it should be fun for others.
Sure, fun is subjective. Thats why we have different killers with different playstyles (well at least some of them).
Like for example, i love going against Scratched Mirror Myers on Indoor maps. Its hit&run, i never know when to expect the next attack and i´m constantly on my toes. Doesn´t matter if i escape or not. On that occasion even the bloodpoints don´t matter to me. (they usually matter the most for me)
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564430#Comment_3564430
So playing against hit and run is fun? I don't think so... Hit and run strats usually don't give you good chases, because the killer hits you before you could initiate a proper chase, which was the issue with unlimited TInkerer value...
Maybe its a personal thing, but i prefer hit&run over getting constantly chased without a break.
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@I_CAME said:
I'll say what I always say. There's zero incentive to stay in a survivor game that looks like it's going badly. You aren't going to win and you aren't going to get any bloodpoints either. Especially true if you are a solo player. The odds of you making a comeback are very low due to how quickly things snowball for the killer. For less experienced players there's also a high probability of them being hard tunneled out so I kind of understand why they give up. The person who gave up might have just been tunneled out five games in a row. It's impossible to really know their motivation for giving up. Give people more of an incentive to stay in games if you want to solve this problem. I don't know how to achieve this but clearly something needs to be done.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564243#Comment_3564243
Harsh reality but this is the truth.
I often see survivors dc/suicide on the first hook, after the first chase of the match.
How is anyone supposed to evaluate how the match will go, just because that survivor had a bad start? He can´t know how the others will play, if they will last longer in a chase or if they actually know how to push gens. Instead they go "nah, this isn´t fun, lets end this".
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564346#Comment_3564346
Let me go over those in more detail... Old Ruin wasn't fun because only hitting greats is hard and loosing progression when only hitting good skill checks was even worse for weaker players.
Getting tunneled mostly isn't fun because you may not be able to reach a structure to properly loop the killer depending on where you get hooked, so your chase is a lot less fun than it could be.
Hit and run isn't fun because when used on killers without terror radius, like back in the ruin undying TInkerer days, they just appear, hit you, leave you and then you either need to heal, which is hard without coordination/medkit or risk going down if it happens again.
Doing only gens is ultra boring, maybe unless you use hyper focus, if you are into that... The only fun thing about doing gens is the macro strategy with which Gen am I going to do...
Some players find hiding fun, or giving themselves challenges, I find it fun to improve or work on tome quests/steam achievements. Making a Wesker accidentally vault a windows is one of the most fun things...
Now we´re getting somewhere. A mix of everything brings fun. A killer who is constantly switching targets mid chase SHOULD therefore also be considered fun. Its not like the killer is coming back after 10 seconds, he breaks the chase, finds the gen with the progress, starts the chase until a hit or until another tinkerer triggers. Thats calm phases and chases. So in my book its whats makes a match fun.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564352#Comment_3564352
Im sure killers be happy with 10.000 BP when a match ends in 3mins with 4K, than 30.000 BP with 4 escape. BP is what players earn in progress of a match, not the final goal, escaping is the goal. Same to killers, BP does not matter, but earn at least 3K.
Before EGC, survivors could stay in the trial for another 20min with killers after 5 Gens done, make a few loops, down, flashlight save and repeat until batteries depleted, there may be 1-2 extra hooks in the end, but then 4 survivors escape. Alot of interaction for both sides. Now tell me, does it fun for killers? Forced to play knowing you can not reach your goal.
As I said, everything has alot of gray zones.
Nah, 10k match won´t be a pip. Neither for the killer nor for the survivor (who escapes with that amount of points)
Fast matches usually don´t award pips on the higher ranks. Since the requirements are higher. So if people don´t earn bloodpoints, don´t earn pips for bloodpoints and and only want to play matches that end faster than their queue, i really don´t see the fun in that.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564269#Comment_3564269
I mean, sort of? I had never heard of the game before she started streaming it, and it looked like a lot of fun so I got it. But I also have played other games before I started watching anyone on Twitch, but I watch them too. Like right now as I am browsing these forums in my ADHD attention span making me do multiple things, I am watching a stream of someone playing a different game than DBD that I also play. I started watching those streams due to their Twitch Drops. Watched the main game channel that streams every day, and they have a schedule where their equivalent of Fog Whisperers actually stream on their channel. I found one particularly fun, so now I watch her more than the main channel (unless she's on it, which is two nights a week.)
So yea, I do both and a lot of players do, especially with Dead by Daylight. If you want, I can send you a DM of some of my favorite DBD streamers that either do open lobbies or are just fun to watch.
Mmhhh fair enough.
Yeah, you can drop a few names. Maybe i find someone new to occasionally watch.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562775#Comment_3562775
I watch a lot of Twitch while I work. So, yeah can be "watching" for several hours.
So its just mute it and do something else...
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564267#Comment_3564267
Everything has gray zones. Depends on how much progression people can make.
If Gen time is increased by half, but pallets increased by double. Yes Gens become much slower, but you cant make progression with hooks, you would not like it.
Old Ruin/Undying giving similar thing when killers put pressure, yes killers dont tunnel, its only my Gen regressed by ~40% when I go for unhook/heal a Dwight. It doesnt matter if survivors have 10 hooks state and killer play fair if they cant make a progress toward their goal.
Thats the thing i don´t understand. I´ve seen survivors complain about a 12 hook match, where everyone died with 25k+ bloodpoints but be happy about a gen rush match, where they all escape and barely make 12k bloodpoints. With no killer interaction at all. Where is the fun in that? Its a pvp game. The more interaction both sides have, the more fun it should be. But turns out, that this also doesn´t make people happy.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3564267#Comment_3564267
Constantly getting interrupted doing your objective and not getting any progress done while the game just continues to get dragged out is just not a fun experience... With the new undying where you only need to cleanse two totems to get rid of ruin it would be a lot fairer than before, if ruin wasn't as bad as it currently is, at least cleansing them is a lot easier now.
Then what is fun?
Old Ruin with the hard skill checks wasn´t fun.
Killer tunneling isn´t fun.
Killer constantly switching targets isn´t fun.
Only doing gens also isn´t fun.
So what is actually fun?
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562775#Comment_3562775
Yes, a lot of streamers have a community. Heck, that's how I first found out about Dead by Daylight, when one of the streamers I am a founder and moderator for started playing it on stream. Then she introduced me to other streamers, so yeah. I watch them a lot, also play with some of them during their streams.
But that just sounds like you started playing because your colleague (?) started playing.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563614#Comment_3563614
Some killers yes, some not, but most maps offer some good line of sight blockers to get quite close...
But it still requires the killer to constantly switch mid chase. Which should be considered a good thing.
But somehow it seems survivors are complaining that they don´t get tunneled.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563610#Comment_3563610
Then it isn´t free. As i said, the killer would have to constantly switch targets.
You kind of have to do that anyway, since while your primary target is on hook, you don't get any value out of staring them down and waiting for an unhook.
Unless you mean switching targets mid-chase, which I already pointed out is not necessary. If you have one on hook and one in chase, one of the other two survivors has to let go of their gen to go for the rescue, causing both the gen of the person you're chasing to regress, and the gen that the rescuer was working on to regress.
Btw. you didn´t answer if you consider 2 survivors on a gen OP.
Oh, I thought it was a rhetorical question, considering everyone knows 2 survivors on one gen is really inefficient due to the co-op penalty.
I didn't realise you were this unfamiliar with the game.
Oh personal attacks. Well thx for the conversation.
Have a nice week!
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Biggest threat to survivors are other survivors.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562831#Comment_3562831
3 perks: ruin undying and TInkerer mostly with corrupt, that was what ever single player ran...
Thats... 4 perks.
So the killer breaks the chase to go after the gen with the most progress, because of Tinkerer. You can usually see the killer, even without Terror Radius. So you start running and the killer chases you, while your gen starts regressing until another Tinkerer triggers and the killer needs to break the chase to go for another gen... Back to square 1.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562858#Comment_3562858
Free, as in, 'don't have to break chase/spend a couple of seconds to kick gen'. You didn't even need to be there. If you had someone on hook while Ruin was active and you chased a second survivor off a gen, making it regress, a third survivor letting go of their gen to go for the rescue would also start losing progress, even if the killer was nowhere near. That kind of global pressure was insanely valuable, and is why Ruin continued to be a frequent pick, up until it needlessly got axed in 6.1.
Again, regressing at half the speed a single (!) survivor takes to repair isn´t strong. Because if you say that, then you also mean that 2 survivors on a single gen = OP
Regression and progression speeds are not equivalent and should never be, otherwise you get infinite matches. The base regression rate is chosen for a reason, and flatly doubling it is -very- impactful. It's why We'll Make It is still a solid pick despite being relatively conditional. Call of Brine was a big part of the genkick meta despite it -only- contributing the +100% regression rate to kicked gens, as opposed to Ruin, which did that and more.
Ruin was incredibly powerful for how much it could slow survivors down if they didn't deal with the hex, and Undying could make it practically impossible to deal with the hex. That's why Undying had to be changed, so that it worked better with stacking perks like Devour Hope, but didn't accidentally lock down an entire match by how powerful it could be with Ruin.
Ruin was fine as a hex perk specifically because it was a hex, but Undying sometimes removed the 'hex' part and just made it a passive.
Then it isn´t free. As i said, the killer would have to constantly switch targets. What does switching targets mean other than breaking the chase to go for something different?
Btw. you didn´t answer if you consider 2 survivors on a gen OP.
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562804#Comment_3562804
what good killer get 360? with 4.3K hours It happened once to me 2 months ago and last time it happened was over a year ago, that wasn't a good xeno, he hit walls all the time and attack too soon or way too late. that was simply not a good xeno.
So you are saying that not avoiding the Aliens tail attack is a skill issue.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562834#Comment_3562834
Because any time the killer applied any pressure, it gave them free, substantial regression. Gen kick meta, but without actually having to kick gens. Ruin, prior to its nerf, was that strong. Which is fine as long as it is a hex perk, but Undying effectively made it NOT a hex perk.
Ruin was really substantial prior to 6.1, you don't seem to get that. It was legitimately really powerful. Which is GOOD, but not so long as Undying gave it up to 70 seconds of cleanse time.
How is taking 2 perks free?
Thats like taking CoH, SC and BK and say "look, free infinite fast self healing!" Its not free. Its sacrificing half the build in order to slow gens down by constantly switching targets. Which isn´t effortless as you claim. Because it also meant to break chases earlier. Giving survivors more time to heal up.
Again, regressing at half the speed a single (!) survivor takes to repair isn´t strong. Because if you say that, then you also mean that 2 survivors on a single gen = OP
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562789#Comment_3562789
So no, the MfT complaints wouldn´t diminish.
No, they would. They absolutely would. You stop caring about lesser issues when much bigger issues present themselves.
Which was the problem with Ruin + old Undying, since it was so overpowered that it made all other issues pale by comparison. What you're spinning is basically a remastered version of the 'just make killers brutally overpowered and maybe they'll camp/tunnel a little bit less' adage.
How is something that can be completely ignored from the survivor side, because it does literally nothing while you do your objective, overpowered? If it was old Ruin, where you had to hit skill checks, i would say yes. But the passive Ruin? Thats something you could completely ignore. As it had no effect when you repaired gens.
You want all the benefits of reduced camping/tunneling but no downsides.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562789#Comment_3562789
But you had the same 3-4 perks on every single killer... Maybe survivor variety increased, but killer variety was 0,because it was a combo wort running on every single killer...
2 Perks. The combo completely removed kicking gens, as you said. Which gave also more room for killer perk variety.
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@timetodohottakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562625#Comment_3562625
show me 1 video of you countering a good xeno/nemesis and i'll agree with what you say.
Not me, but this guy looped xeno before it was nerfed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chw_cbqTC7c -
You won´t see that from me. I´m not really someone who contacts the killer after the match (why would i want to keep in touch?).
But i´m afraid that the same people that like to harass killers (like i had on my steam profile), would do it even more, if they knew that it would cause distress on the killer. Because some people are just terrible and can´t seem to separate a game from RL.
So i´m really sorry if that happens to you.
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You are getting matches against Xeno?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562768#Comment_3562768
Okay, but if they'd release a perk tomorrow that increased repair speed by 50%, you'd also get fewer MFT complaints.
Doesn't mean the problem's gone or diminished.
MfT, DH, WoO, perk that speeds repair by 50%. Kinda looks like you can have both at the same time, while not leaving the meta we currently have.
So no, the MfT complaints wouldn´t diminish. Would you see also complaints about the repair perk? Sure! But you would see complaints about both perks.
You are also missing the point, that the Undying Ruin combo created more variety on survivor builds. Not the copy of a copy of the copy of a streamers build. I´m all for more variety in perk builds. Seeing the same 6 perks every match is kinda boring. At least for me. The Undying Ruin combo gave the chance for more varied builds, without getting weird looks from the teammates. "dude, why are you using this?!"
I´ll die on that hill defending Undying Ruin. Because i really didn´t like the Eruption meta and i sure as hell don´t like the current stacking 3-4 slowdown perks meta.
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Honestly, i don´t get the idea behind twitch drops. You get a skin if you "watch" instead of playing yourself.
Do people really watch twitch for several hours? Or are they only muting the channel and setting it to 160p while they play?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561453#Comment_3561453
Are you pretending like camping and tunneling wasn't a thing back then? Yeah sure, you would get less value with this, but then again you did not have a hud to tell you if someone is already going for unhook, so you probably have 2 people leaving their gens for the unhook only to see the killer staying there? Meanwhile you loose progress on gen, and obviously if you just face camp for no reason you don't get much out of the combo, but if you proxy camp you, which is still the more effective thing to do...
And even if they just chased normally, it was still way too much regression, think about it, pain rez is super strong and removes 100% of a gen at max, without the stays regressing, so thats 90 seconds, with ruin undying, you either had around 2 minutes bonus, because people needed to do so many dulls and run between them, if they found them right away, or just power through ruin and get at least the same amount in regression there... It is not that a perk that gives value if you take chases is a bad thing, it is the amount of regression it could give you that was completely insane..
I´m not pretending anything. But complaints about camping went down during the months of Undying Ruin. Instead we had tons of threads complaining about how impossible it is for a single survivor to cleanse 5 totems...
Did we have complaints about camping? Sure, but they were more like what we have now with people complaining about the anti-facecamp mechanic.
During that time i was very active with a totem hunter build and even remember some matches where i cleansed all 5 totems alone.
I still think that the amount of regression was a small price to pay for less camping/tunneling in the matches. And it was way healthier than what we got afterwards: the gen kick meta.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561369#Comment_3561369
Having the players need to record their stuff for reports is obnoxious. Our Switch cousins can't even do that, they removed that ability like two years ago.
Exactly! Only way to make sure players across all platforms can successfully report their cross play experience against cheaters is making use of the dedicated servers.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561452#Comment_3561452
Also, at this point, even if the tail hits would register properly, a missed tail attack has basically the same consequences as any other killer power, yet ALSO can be taken away by flame turrets. I really don't understand the design choice at this point; either make the tail significantly stronger then other killer powers, but with the caveat that it can be completely canceled and taken away by survivors, or make it in the same ballpark then other powers, but let the player have it up at all times, only resetting the runner mode after picking a survivor up.
Right now it feels so unrewarding to play the Alien: the tail has a big punishment for missing, its inaccurate and very inconsistent to hit with and on top of all that the power can be taken away by the survivors for basically the whole chase. Imagine if Huntresses hatches sometimes register at the survivors hit box, sometimes on the modell and if a survivor enters a locker, you can't reload at that locker for 30s, its something like that.
Add to that the sinking feeling that BHVR is too afraid to release a genuinely strong killer. The last well designed killer was Wesker, and a lot of survivors are kinda sick to be seeing him. Singularity was promised to be the killer that should be able to enter the higher tiers and shake things up a bit, and after that the PTB promised us the Xenomorph, but both were significantly nerfed in ways that make them very unrewarding to play, unless you sink a lot of hours into them, while apparently survivors love to verse them for the counterplay they offer. But this counterplay often leaves the killer without a power, which is the hight of "unfun design" for killers.
Very well summed up. Currently it just feels unrewarding to play Alien. The turrets made sense on release. But now, with the harsher conditions on a miss and with how easy it is to miss. Its just... not fun to play.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561424#Comment_3561424
Back then gens were 80 seconds, so 50% means 40 seconds left, with going there, unhooking, coming back with the other guy, maybe even healing, because there is not really that much progress left on the gen anyway, you will need to add an aditional 45-50 for actually repairing the gen from 0, and then only if the killer does not come back and interrupt it... Ruin just regressed a gen for 50%, that's massive... That's half of what pain rez can do nowadays and you're telling me this was not a strong perk? Like what? Also during all that time the killer probably has found another person to chase, most likely, and his gen is now regressing as well... Back then the icons were not in the hud, so you didn't even know that there was some gen regressing, so if the killer finished his chase and hooked the next guy his gen was probably at 0 until others even noticed the gen has been worked on... You could fully regress several gens and did not really have to go out of your way to stop and kick something, the perk was ridiculously good... Especially with Undying to just get rid of its downside of being easy to cleanse.
Yep, you´re right. We are better off without it. Back to camping and tunneling killers to avoid losing gen progress...
Sometimes i really wonder what the community wants.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561426#Comment_3561426
Because they spammed and played only M2 knowing there's no downside. The point is after the update I haven't see any Alien player. Maybe once. Keep that.
No one knew if it was intentional or a bug for the first days. Then the devs fixed the bug and on top reversed the tail attack cd to the PTB version + introduced a new bug that made hiting a tail attack very hard.
So of course people stopped playing Alien.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Alien players used and abused tail hit survivors without losing any distance, same if they miss, didn't matter. Devs fixed that issue and no one wants to play Alien anymore. Simple as that.
How can someone abuse a mechanic that has no other way to being played?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561390#Comment_3561390
Ok so what exactly do the other two do? Usually 1 in chase 1 on hook two on gens... So you still loose progression on the gen you did until you went for the unhook? That was the most obvious problem with it, you just lost so much progress on the gen, but you could usually not finish it in time to still get the unhook safely.
Ok lets break this down. We assume that the rescuing survivor is working on the gen alone. Maybe 50% progress. Distance isn´t on the other end of the map, but a medium distance. So rescue takes roughly 30 seconds. Unhooked survivor can come back with you to the gen or go somewhere else. If you go straight back to the gen, with the rescued survivor, you spend like 1 Minute away from the gen and lost 30 seconds of progress. But now you repair at almost double speed. Which makes up for it and you repair the gen in less time than you spend rescuing or what it would have taken you, if you continued alone without going for the rescue.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561367#Comment_3561367
Okay, i´m sure i said that somewhere in the past of this discussion. But i´ll say it again.
Undying Ruin was healthy, because a killer that used the combo only could benefit from said combo, by playing in a non camping/tunneling way.
And I've already told you that that was RUIN doing the work, not UNDYING. RUIN was healthy. UNDYING was not.
Undying just made it so that Ruin couldn't really be considered a hex anymore. And even after Undying was nerfed, Ruin + Undying was still a very commonly run combo with plenty of power in its corner. It never needed 5xUndying, 5xUndying just amped it up to a ridiculous degree.
What killed Ruin was the undeserved 50% nerf it got in 6.1. because BHVR decided to axe the meta. Same tragedy that struck Decisive Strike.
Lets agree to disagree.
You don´t see the benefit of Undying Ruin for survivors and I don´t see how that combo was bad for survivors.
So instead of going back and forth for ages, we just call it the day. Okay?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561380#Comment_3561380
So you're telling me you don't need to unhook people and therefore leave the gen you are currently working on or what?
So you are telling me you only play as 2 survivors in a match or what?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561348#Comment_3561348
That's the point, it was powerfull but cleansing that many totems was even more time consuming, so what exactly is your point here?
Yes some of the hex perks definitely are... Think of NOED or Devour for example... I agree that not all of them are that good, but Devour for sure, if this would not be cleansable it would be broken af.
The point is, that you could cleanse Ruin. But you didn´t had to cleanse it. Ruin was only affecting gens no one worked on. It only worked when the killer pushed survivors away from gens. Which in return required the killer to play in a way. Which most survivors would consider healthy: no camping, no tunneling.
What is bad about that? You could repair the gen, like nothing would affect it and didn´t had to worry about a camping or tunneling killer.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3558507#Comment_3558507
Yeah a fresh recode from the ground up would be amazing. Prolly fix soooooany things, and allow for new features like a trial replay system to help with reporting.
More importantly with a fresh code: we got dedicated servers. A dedicated servers should constantly be able to monitor everything that happens during a match. Anything thats fishy like hooking all 4 survivors in the first 30 seconds, or finishing all gens in 30 seconds should automatically be tracked and forwarded to the support.
Only way i see to get rid of the ridiculous amounts of hackers. Since the report system by itself is still way to complicated to use.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561344#Comment_3561344
The reward was that it regressed gens at double speed AND skipped the kick requirement. The moment a killer pushed a survivor off a gen, it would make that gen start losing progress and at DOUBLE speed. It doesn't matter that that's half the speed survivors can progress with: It's an asymmetrical game, after all, and these speed weigh differently across the board.
But at 200%, it was solidly powerful. If the killer got a hook in before Ruin was found, it was a majorly uphill battle for survivors. Even after Undying was nerfed, Ruin was still a very consistent pick and in my opinion, it was very healthy.
But Ruin taking up to FIVE totems to cleanse was not okay, and from what I understand, it skyrocketed killer winrates as well.
I don´t see the reward part.
The average killer in this game does not see a lot of things.
Okay, i´m sure i said that somewhere in the past of this discussion. But i´ll say it again.
A killer who is constantly pushing survivors away from gens, is a killer who isn´t camping or tunneling. The 2 things survivors complain the most about these days. Undying Ruin was healthy, because a killer that used the combo only could benefit from said combo, by playing in a non camping/tunneling way.
Somehow i get the feeling that survivors don´t understand that the combo gave them exactly what they wanted all the time.
Also, remember its a 4vs1 game. No survivor would have had to cleanse all 5 totems alone. Thats like claiming a survivor has to repair all 5 gens alone...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561330#Comment_3561330
The need to effectively cleanse so many totems that it was more time efficient to just ignore the perk? Which was a big mistake considering hex perks are designed to be stronger than others because they can be destroyed? Effectively removing that negativ of it?
I agree. Survivors could just ignore Ruin. Which speaks a lot about how "powerful" it was/is.
And yes, Hex perks should be stronger than normal perks. But they aren´t which is kinda the problem isn´t it? After all, they are supposed to be high risk, high reward perks. But literally every normal perk is stronger than Hex perks.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561330#Comment_3561330
Perhaps having a hex as powerful as ruin without the drawback of being a hex was a problem?
Ruin powerful? At 200% it regressed a gen at 1/2 the speed a single survivor required to repair. Whats powerful about that?
I mean, i could understand if you would complain about the old skill check Ruin. But the current passive one? Nothing is powerful about it.
Remember, Hex perks are supposed to be high risk, high reward perks. I don´t see the reward part.