Tsulan
Tsulan
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@GoshJosh said:
Agreed, it can also be used with OoO for unlimited killer aura reading in a coordinated SWF.
Everyone ignored this. But yeah, MoM + OoO = the old OoO, where a SWF will see the killers aura at all times.
Not problematic at all!
And people call it a nerf...
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Whats even worse is, that Legion players will change their playstyle + equipped addons to always keep everyone injured at all times (even more than currently).
If people thought that playing against Legion now is a mend simulator, then they gonna love the upcoming patch!
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106946#Comment_3106946
It was a silly and fun perk that took a bunch of setup to possibly make big plays like saving in front of a facecamper or getting someone out of basement. I rarely got value from it, but when I did it allowed me to do ridiculous things as a reward for the work it took to activate it. With the new change, outside of body blocking twice rather than once (which is inconsistent as is because you lose collision after the first hit for like 5 seconds), it now cannot be used for...anything. Unhooking deactivates it. Healing a slug deactivates it. Healing yourself to get to full so you can take 2 hits deactivates it. And the killer is just going to ignore you anyway, because after you take a protection hit and the killer suddenly sees your aura, they know that as long as the aura is visible, you're useless to your team.
You could couple it with Inner Strength, cleanse a totem before it activates, then jump into a locker once MoM is active = 3 health states. Combine with OtR for the same effect.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107054#Comment_3107054
Another useless change the devs decided to make even though no one asked for it.
and it wont be the last one.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106980#Comment_3106980
You mean like BBQ did.
That one hurt...
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This nerf will achieve 2 things:
- reduce the popularity of Legion and Plague (we´ll be less likely to face them)
- reduce the lethality of those 2 killers, since its effect is non existant unless all 4 survivors are injured (dead doesn´t count as injured).
So a success i guess.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106961#Comment_3106961
This change is more the devs wanting to make the Endurance effect from MoM to match the endurance effect granted by other perks. It's good for consistency, but the way they are going about the change just makes it bad.
Its not like its the first time or something like that...
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Thana is trash now.
Watch how we´ll go back to gen rush meta.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106946#Comment_3106946
People have been asking for MoM buffs for a while. Not that I agree the perk needed a buff, but it's a perk that people like even if no one is using it.
Original MoM was busted. So maybe the devs are cautious buffing it again.
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Well its a change for the usual "nerfs" that are actually buffs. Like the BT "nerfs".
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Did i miss something? Did MoM suddenly rise to meta? With the amount of threads about the nerf, one could believe that this was the second most used perk next to DH.
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There is obviously somewhere a MoM main who gets a lot of juice out of this perk. Singlehandedly increasing the escape rate with that perk.
Kinda like that Twins main out there, thats a beast on high ranks.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106722#Comment_3106722
Not really.
Having 1 person healthy against Legion is easy, which basically nullifies Thanataphobia
Thats impossible! According to the countless examples on this very forum. All survivors are always injured and only 1 of them has to repair gens. All 5 of them alone.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106170#Comment_3106170
It's what happens when you have popular streamers spreading this idea and people cant think for themselves and follow these streamers like they're the law or something.
Streamers can have a opinion of the game like everyone else. But since they´re (most likely) human, they can also be wrong.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Why'd they have to nerf MoM? That's the most unnecessary nerf ever
Because... somewhere out there, there is a player who uses MoM to the fullest and his escape rate is off the charts.
You know, like that one Twins main that single handedly dragged their kill rate up.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106170#Comment_3106170
Ha I thought I was the only one who read that and went; "Wait... wat?".
There are loads of console players and I don't think it's that easy to just up and play cheats on consoles. OP makes it sound like there's a cheat button anyone can turn on and boom!
Its ridiculous. I could believe, that the people that don´t have fun take a break, switch sides or go on holiday. But cheating?
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To claim that the people that don´t have fun go straight up and start to cheat is a bold statement...
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Its summer. People are outside and enjoy going to the beach or pool.
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@Bupkiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097739#Comment_3097739
Pretty good points, but killer is way more chill than survivor, always has been. A killer cannot die. A killer can still easily win by being the high scorer even without killing any survivors. Survivors are trying to stay alive and get points.
If it's only about points. Then survivors are in a better spot now. We have longer matches and survivors regularly gain over 30k bloodpoints per match.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099462#Comment_3099462
If they nerf the proper aspects, which is camping, tunneling, and certain oppressive slowdown perks, then both sides should be pretty happy. There will still be people that will be unhappy, of course, especially those people that use camping and tunneling as an easy way out and don't want to lose those skillless strategies. But in general I am posititve that both sides would be happy.
What the devs shouldn't do is revert the baseline buffs killers received. Those were good. Now survivors just need help against the cheap strategies, and some slowdown perks just need to be toned down a bit, so they aren't as crazy strong.
I think the biggest issues would be fixed by turning the base "BT" into a different health state. Thats not affected by a Enduring timer + increase DS to 5 seconds.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101739#Comment_3101739
Well I want to understand what are the potential issues and the abuse possibilities. I don't care about other perks, this thread is about the "stop the hook timer" anticamp proposal.
So far I didn't really get any replies that would present some serious issues.
You mention that maybe survivors could delay the chase with slower killers like huntress. Yes it's possible, but is it really a big issue? I am not convinced. Maybe it would be a new "chase delay tech" that sometimes survivors could manage to pull off, but that's it.
Survivors are clever, they´ll find a way you and i won´t think about, to squeeze additional time out of it, even when the killer has no intention of camping.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101684#Comment_3101684
I want to understand how would they abuse it. So far what I heard is that survivors would deliberately loop around the hook.
I want to know if this is really such a big issue, and if yes, why can't we easily fix it by an additional "killer is not in a chase" condition.
I mean, we could have had double CoH, buffed Boil Over or penta Enduring. But people chose to abuse them, so they were removed. Introducing a frozen hook progress would be simply the same thing.
Even with normal progress during a chase, survivors would find a way to loop the killer around the hook, without triggering it. Just watch how survivors can loop a Huntress around a stone, without triggering Bloodlust.
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The reason why we can´t have nice things is, that people would abuse the ######### out of it.
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DbD would be in a better spot, if the matchmaking would match notorious plug pullers/suiciders/afkers with each other instead of the normal players.
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And i lost respect for the survivors that suicide on the first inconvenience...
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099514#Comment_3099514
I can't understand how you don't see that if the majority is unhappy with some changes that something needs to be done, then we can discuss what could be done, but as it stands this patch is NOT a success in any way shape or form like you claimed.
You may like it, and I am happy if you do, but this patch has created lots of problems, which I may try to break down for you:
There are 3 main areas of survivor gameplay:
1 gens -> this area has been made slower and more boring + combine this with slowdowns it is a disaster (net survivor experience got worse)
2 chases -> this is arguably the best area of dbd but this patch made chases faster and more hopeless for survivors. Especially mega bloodlust 3 coming quicker COMBINED with slower gens is just a death sentence (net survivor experience got worse)
3 rescuing and healing -> possibly the biggest issue. Longer gens made camping stronger, super STBFL even more. If you are camped as a survivor you are not playing the game, it is annoying and a boring experience (net survivor experience got worse)
The survivor experience got worse in every area, how is this in any way, shape or form a success?
Plus a lot of killers, not all, got meaner with more slowdowns and more camping. This was NOT intended, at least in the words of Mccote during the stream about this patch.
Something needs to be done, and even if, let's say it is all survivors not wanting to adapt like you say, fine it doesn't change the fact that survivors are finding their experience way worse and this is not a smart move.
Finally I agree with you, if they just deleted DH, nerfed endgame DS and removed MMR completely (or maybe never introduced it) the game would be better.
I think MMR was the beginning of DBD's decline and it needs to go
The changes we got, sparked from exactly that. Killers being unhappy about having to equip 4 slowdown perks to even have a slightest chance of a normal match + and devs not being happy with kill rates, that were below expectations. Devs wanted to increase match length, which was impressivly short during the last event. Survivors made very clear, how fast they can repair gens, when they want. Now pretending that gens don´t exist, won´t change that.
Devs also wanted to increase kill rates. They probably didn´t expect how survivors prefered to ruin the game for everyone else instead of trying to adapt. But here we are. We just got a statement in another thread from mandy, that they won´t do any hastly reactions to this. So unless your plan is to suicide on the first hook for the next 3 months...
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099211#Comment_3099211
It's only 4/5ths of the player base, hardly significant. The best approach is to ignore 80% of the play base.
And if this is the case, then really, it only affects about 20% of players. Those 20% of players definitely don't care about the misery of 80% of the player base so who cares anyway.
But its not. I´ve seen many experienced survivors that play perfectly fine and don´t try to ruin the game of everyone else by suiciding on the first hook.
As it was already said, this leads absolutely nowhere. So instead of throwing a tantrum, how bout trying to adapt? There won´t be a backroll of the patch, so suiciding brings you nothing.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099462#Comment_3099462
Honestly if they did that I think that would be the straw that broke the camel's back for most of the killer players and then we might actually see the pulse of DbD start to slow down. This patch showed that the Devs actually care a bit about both sides and gained some much need trust with them....if they rolled it back then that trust would be shattered beyond repair for many.
Yes, the survivors that sabotage the game aren´t realizing, that they are killing the game with their ridiculous demands for easy matches.
For once the game looks more balanced than ever and yet...
This could be very well a breaking point for DbD.
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3099462#Comment_3099462
You are trying to reduce the problem to other survivors being bad, that's not what is happening. The patch was made under the assumption that by making gens slower and chases faster killers would play easier builds and avoid camping, tunneling and slowdowns, this did NOT happen.
A lot of people are GENUINELY disliking the patch and this is a problem. You cannot ignore the response the patch is having, some could be cry babies fine, but not everyone, and I have never seen such a response in this forum where killers supporters, like you, are very vocal.
A solution needs to be found, this patch is not a solution when the majority is annoyed so something needs to give.
From a business perspective, it makes more sense to appease your larger player base that is now, largely, very unhappy.
I am 100% sure the devs are panicking and looking into a solution right this moment because they were not expecting this kind of response
Thats not whats happening? Turn on any streamer and count how often survivors suicide on first hook. You´ll be surprised how many it is. Like literally every single streamer is complaining about this. So it isn´t just a couple of people that sabotage the game.
DbD has been stressful for killers since the MMR started. When killers complained, they got just a "git gud" or "just take 4 slowdowns for a ez win" as response. Now survivors are feeling the same stress killers did.
Appease the larger player base? Devs have done nothing else for years. Killers always got the short end of the stick and now, that survivors received for once the short end, they demand changes at gun point?
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097739#Comment_3097739
Come on man, I know you are fanatical about protecting killers but calling this patch a success when a large number of the majority of the player base (survivors) are unhappy with the changes is a stretch even for you.
This patch is the most complained about I have ever seen and I have been playing DBD since November 2018.
No matter what you think, you ALSO can see the response to the patch and it is bad, just admit it.
You like the patch, you like killers to be in control and powerful, that's fine and I accept that, but calling a patch a success when it is strongly despised by a large amount of the player base is just wrong.
This is a PR disaster comparable with the rings of power on amazon prime (with smaller numbers obviously)
The issue why survivors are unhappy is mainly other survivors. That sabotage the game in the hope that the devs roll the patch back. Ruining the game for everyone.
Lets say for a second, that the devs actually give in. That they roll the patch back. That killers get the short end of the staff once again, like so many times. What do you think, how killer players would react?
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You can even play without slowdown perks, camping or tunneling. Survivors will still give up on first hook.
Totally pointless to play, when everyone is sabotaging the game.
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What should they comment on? That survivors are collectivly throwing the game and trying to ruin it for everyone else?
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097286#Comment_3097286
First auto BT and OtR aren't actually protective against tunneling, which we've proven, so while they were done with good intention their overall contribution isn't actually anything special. Ruin is just as much of a threat as it was before. It has half the regression but its still there. They didn't remove it, they simply slowed it's rate, which btw was a mistake, I never saw ruin as a problem.
Pop was a decent nerf, but the 2.5% perk kick is what makes it not really matter too much, because you get that 2.5% regardless of pop, so every kick is just killing your progress.
Now as far as NOED is concerned, it might be easier to find but think it through. The time you're spending finding totems, the killer is spending killing everyone, because now you're all 1 shot. So you could spend that extra minute going around looking for it, but if it's even a half way decent killer that will result in a 4k.
Actually, i think that the auto BT should be a separate health state. Which isn´t affected by Enduring and does stack with BT and OtR.
During the PTB, everything stacking up to 5 times was simply to much. But a middle way would be nice.
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@Neyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097664#Comment_3097664
Even over the past week or so since the patch it's been dropping daily. There are three main peaks in player count every day, I'm assuming oceanic, EU, and NA each spike the count at their respective peak times.
Last Wednesday was the biggest day since the patch for each of these, the highest was the first peak at a little over 55k. That same time period yesterday was 43k. Every region seems to be dropping daily since the patch launched, and each one is about 12k fewer players than a week ago.
It's the game dead? Nah. But I think enough players are taking a healthy break to notice in the metrics, myself included. And I recommend a break as being healthier than taking out frustrations on other players, regardless of which role you queue into.
Well healthy break. You said it. Doesn´t has to be because of the patch. I mean, its summer. People are on vacation or don´t want to sit in a scorching hot room, when dbd is turning the pc into a furnace.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097739#Comment_3097739
Lmao not everyone has the time to put into the game to become "skilled" at it. The game needs to be balanced for less experienced players as well.
And I seriously doubt everyone who complains about solo queue is simply not "skilled". There are simply aspects of this game that are pretty problematic at the moment. I've already listed them.
I also don't really see how the meta was broken up in a significant way. Former meta slowdown perks were just swapped with other slowdown perks, and survivors now use Off the Record instead of DS. The meta was shaken up a bit, but not enough in my opinion.
Again, the killer queue times speak for themselves. The devs will need to help out survivors now, and not only because they are catering to the "not so skilled" survivor players. Otherwise you could just as well make the argument that this patch catered to the not so skilled killer players in particular.
Oh so now that killers have queue times, the devs need to help out survivors. But when survivors had a queue of the same length, there wasn´t an issue...
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3092889#Comment_3092889
5 seconds are better than nothing, but not much. Definitely not enough for all the buffs killers got. Survivors need more help against camping and tunneling at base, not just with perks, because then they are forced to use those perks.
The entire point of this patch was to have more perk variety, and for both sides to not be dependent on certain perks anymore. For survivor this changed not at all. And for killers, while they are less dependent on slowdown perks, the best builds are still just multiple slowdown perks stacked, because some of the slowdown perks are still too strong at the moment, now with the gen times being increased to 90 seconds.
I do think at the moment the game's balance is problematic. Tunneling needs to be nerfed more, camping needs to be nerfed, and certain slowdown perks also need to be nerfed. Then maybe we will see more balanced queue times again. I think the current killer queue times speak for themselves.
The patch wanted to achieve 3 things:
- grind reduction = fail
- break up the meta = success
- increase kill rates = success
Now what we do with this patch, well survivor used to be the chill role and has become more challenging. Many people didn´t like that, so they started to ruin the game for everyone else out of spite. What we will end up with? Honestly, no idea. Skilled players have no issue as solo survivors. But will the not so skilled ones buckle up and try harder or will they continue to ruin the game for themselves and everyone else?
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@LaMeR said:
https://steamcharts.com/search/?q=dead+by+daylight
according to steamcharts in last 30 days DBD has lost 10k players averagely
Its not like there was a dbd event in the last 30 days or something like that...
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@Tiufal said:
Thats acutally not true. Even the best survivor players dont escape much at all in casual games. its definitely not a skill issue for survivors. It was a skill issue for killers before, most are just patheticly bad at playing killer. now those get carried by 4 slowdowns. somehow competent killers now 4k every single game. there are even 50-50 players that dont want to play this easymode killers anymore, but theyre also suffering from impossible games as survivor. anyone still claiming that this patch didnt broke the game is completely biased.
The survivor main streamers that i watch still escape just fine, when their teammates don´t give up on the first down...
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Tell me you don´t know how to read charts. Without telling me, you don´t know how to read charts.
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@night_ph said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097306#Comment_3097306
Nise try compare games in which synchronous multiplayer and in which the built-in information capability.
in these games(Battlefield. LoL), I can share information with teammates, thereby making it clear my steps and their. In these games, I can change the build during the match. Your comparison is completely wrong
Regarding the sabotage of matches, this is how the players convey their disagreement, because they don’t hear them otherwise.
Yeah and what if i would have mentioned assymetrical games? Those are also with randoms.
Sabotaging the game for the others won´t get you heard. It will backfire just like it did with all the disconnects during Freddys release. Which ultimately lead to the dc penalty we currently have.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097294#Comment_3097294
5 seconds is literally nothing. A killer can easily wait that out unless the hook is like right next to a pallet or window. That occasion is not that common.
5 seconds is way better than nothing. Hell, i remember how people complained about the 12 second BT protection, that killers could wait it out. What did people expect, when asking for basekit stuff? 80 seconds of hit immunity?
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@night_ph said:
Niсe try Matt :)
if you dont TRY or play BETTER than your opponent you shouldn't win.
in a game that is built on random
Too many people will see a red bar, or a certain killer and just give up straight away, even if the games not unbalanced they will just give up and use the patch as an excuse.
Regular behavior in a situation where the developers themselves don't play their game and force them to play as they want, and not the players
YOU HAVE TO TRY TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO GENS.... expecting to win without trying or playing well is stupid.
If someone does not like the imposed concept of the game, then they can express it or convey it as it suits them. In any, the players should have a CHOICE, and not the imposition of a certain style of play. This applies to all parties.
Its a pvp game. Last time i checked, Betafield, LuL and R6 were mainly composed of playing with randoms (unless you play in a clan, but thats the equivalent of playing SWF).
If someone doesn´t like the change, then i´d prefer they don´t play at all instead of sabotaging everyone elses matches by suiciding/disconnecting on the first inconvenience.
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@GannTM said:
They buffed so many basekit mechanics killers have and what did survivors get? A 5 second BT. It’s insulting how much they catered to just killers this patch, and it hurt solo queue big time, yet you’re still acting like the game is purely survivor sided.
If you go by actual time efficiency, then those 5 seconds are more than all what killers got combined.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097257#Comment_3097257
Ok lets address this 1 by 1. First the 5 second BT, sounds like a great idea right? Here's the issue, 5 seconds isn't enough to get anywhere safe from hook, and this has been repeatedly proved by multiple high level streamers. Now the actual BT is only a boost to the current BT, so yes it helps, but again if you do anything other than run away, like heal, or unhook or open a gate, it goes away. Now, OtR that's basically a longer version of BT, starting to see a theme here? And this is to make up for the HUGE drop in self-care.
Now let's address ruin, ruin was not removed, it was made to stop working IF a survivor is killed, and if a survivor is killed I'm pretty sure ruin is the least of anyone's worries. Now Pop goes the weasel was nerfed by 5% but here's the thing, now kicking a gen is automatically 2.5% without any perks, so you're actually only getting a 2.5% difference which is a hell of a lot more than it used to be.
NOED was never debuffed, it starts before the gates open and the only difference there is that you can now see its aura if you're within 30 meters after it starts.
But people askes specifially for a protection to face camping. Which the 5 second auto BT effectively is. You won´t go down instantly and your team has a better chance of saving you with that. Same goes for BT and OtR. Wasn´t the general census, that people were annoyed by SC users healing in the corner of the map? That was kinda solved, wasn´t it?
Ruin isn´t a threat anymore to gens, even when everyone is alive. No one will go out of its way to cleanse it.
Pop (you got that wrong here) not only got nerfed by 5%. It also only gives 20% reduction of the current progress. Not the overall progress. So before the nerf, a killer could hit a gen that was at 25% progress and reset it to 0. Now, the same kick to the gen will take 7 seconds away. Thats a huge thing and pop was also basically nullified, since the killer will most probably spend more time walking to the gen then the actual progress reduction he gets out of it.
That aura debuff from NOED makes it much, much easier to find and therefore survivors are even less inclined to do bones than before.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3097159#Comment_3097159
What did survivors get that was good?
Basekit 5 second BT + speed boost? BT buffed? OtR? Removal of Ruin, Pop and NOED?
Basically things survivors have been asking for?
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096511#Comment_3096511
That's the thing we don't need 1 side to get more than the other, we need them to balance the sides. And they haven't done that from what I can see at all. Because instead of taking baby steps to correct the issues they instead create different issues.
For example one of the biggest problems prepatch was dead hard. So they could have taken endurance off of it completely and it would have been much more balanced. Instead they take the dash off of it and make it slow you down? That's not balance, that's something a 12yo does when he doesn't understand the problem.
Both sides got good things with the patch. The fact that the game was so survivor sided before it, probably contributed to giving killers more stuff to catch up with kill rates.
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Did I miss something? Why are there suddenly so many BBQ threads? Do people really ask for more camping?
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096489#Comment_3096489
I don't disagree, but making it killer sided doesn't make it better, it just makes it horrible for different reasons. There's a reason why the goal is balance, because balance works. And them overcorrecting on survivor side and then overcorrecting on killer side doesn't lead to balance, it leads to more mistakes.
Patches go in waves. Next patch survivors will probably get more than killers and so on.
The devs risking more with a patch is a good thing. For example, I liked the craziness of the Boil Over rework. We need changes like this. Because they shake up everything.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096489#Comment_3096489
What is the better of the game? Solo Q being awful?
I honestly don't understand why you are so against solo Q being buffed.
Where did I state that?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3096475#Comment_3096475
Yes, they do complain about those things. They claim about all those things stacked.
Haven't seen any threads dedicated to that topic. A quick glance over the first page of the general forum showed nothing.
Maybe not many people complaining?