TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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@Exerath1992 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817214#Comment_1817214
Yeah, I know it makes it harder the closer they were to victory. A bit of the point. If they all got killed early then maybe the last guy gets a bit more of a break because the killer is better than them. But if they were almost done with gens, they were pretty on par and the last person needs less of a handicap. But either way, its a bit more fair because the last persin still has to do something that will reveal their location before they attempt to escape
Unfortunately, like I pointed out earlier, the game's poor design means that the current way is pretty much the only way of doing things. There's no timer, nothing to force the final survivor to actually do anything. That was the problem back when completing gens was required to open the hatch, the final survivor felt he had no chance and so he wouldn't bother, instead he'd just hold the killer hostage. Taking that into consideration, it becomes a lot more difficult to balance this. A timer too short would doom the survivor. A timer too long would be useless. Well, the survivor could get crows if they don't touch a generator for too long. But then, how long? What if the survivor really is trying to do the last gen while also not getting caught? And if the survivor is just stealthing around, all they'd have to do is occasionally tap a gen to get around the system. (These are comments the devs themselves have made about the issue of using crows to prevent survivors from ignoring their objective.) The devs have decided that making a short end of things is the best way to handle it when the game becomes a 1v1 with a final survivor, and given how a lot of people do just want to hurry it up and move on to the next match it makes sense.
The lack of structure in DbD makes balancing some things just... stupid. I don't know how else to put it, there's a lot that's just stupid. To get around this, the devs use RNG, that's their way of "balancing" some of the mechanics in the game. Like the hatch and exit gates. At least when the killer finds and closes the hatch it starts a timer that means the survivor can't fool around for too long, either they make a quick escape or they die to the killer or the entity. If the killer brings Whispers, guarding the exit gates becomes much easier, and the only thing that screws the killer in that situation is if the hatch is literally across the map from the gates and the survivor was camping the gate and gets it open before the killer can arrive. I know, being forced to bring a perk to deal with gameplay issues sucks, but that's how DbD is designed, perks are band-aids for everything. Bring perks to deal with whatever annoys you most and try to accept the rest as out of your control.
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There was recently a thread about this:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/212270/hoarder
A dev response was posted pointing out that the perk is how it is right now because trying to do their original idea caused unexpected bugs and they hope to fix it in the future. It is not intended for the perk to stay like this forever, it's just not a quick fix.
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It depends on the map. I've had survivors use it on Lery's and so only one survivor ever got hooked; the other three bled out.
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Sir, these are the Dead by Daylight forums. There are certain standards here. It is important to reply to posts with on-topic responses.
You're welcome.
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The fallacy with this is that you don't know how many survivors have done that who you haven't seen; you only know about the ones you do see.
The number of times I thought I'd been seen and then the killer walked right by, plus the number of times as killer I never saw a survivor until they got spooked and ran.... yeah, those numbers aren't zero.
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Hex totems are already super risky. There's no world in which I think a survivor should be able to instantly remove one of the killer's perks. The killer only gets four perks. There should be no instant way to completely remove one of the killer's only four perks from the entire match. Unless it requires like 20 tokens. Okay, you stun the killer 20 times or get 20 hook saves, then sure, you can kick the hex totem.
Wait, what do I care, I don't even run hex totems. Ya know what, nevermind. Let's get this perk fast-tracked. I want survivors to waste their perk slots with this in my matches.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816335#Comment_1816335
I've had people message me that they're telling the killer where I am. I play on console, no one will ever get banned.
But yeah it's been happening a lot lately, and it never used to happen at all, so it's very weird. I've always been a totem toucher, so when a game starts I try to cleanse at least one totem before I start on gens. I had it happen five times in three days, that someone blocked me in while cleansing. One time, a second person came to block both me and the first person who blocked me in. It was especially fun when it turned out to be a Legion and he got three of the easiest mends of his life.
Oh yeah, I love cleansing totems. I'll always cleanse totems. It's often the first thing I do when a match starts, rather than jumping on a gen so I can be the first survivor caught. Never had anyone block me in for doing bones, though. I've reported people for breaking the rules (holding the game hostage), and the devs seemed to take the reports seriously. Someone may not get banned on the first report, but if they don't stop the behavior they will continue to get reported and multiple reports will definitely see them get in trouble.
@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816942#Comment_1816942
I used to report people when they'd send me messages with homophobic slurs and I got a message from Playstation telling me I was abusing their report system. I was like, no, that's how often I get randos using slurs because they didn't like something I did in-game. So I don't bother anymore.
Back when I had messages turned on, I reported a lot of people for the things they'd write to me. Never had PlayStation complain about it. I really expected them to tell me to stop reporting people or stop playing Dead by Daylight.
I finally turned off messages and friend requests, though, just to make life easier. It felt quite freeing. And it lets me joke around with my friends, "Oh man, I've got some angry messages coming my way for that match!"
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Yup, I came across this problem as well. Same map, same gen, PS4.
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@Exerath1992 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817182#Comment_1817182
If the hatch is closed, 2 things happen:
-the final survivor now only needs to do 1 generator to power the exit gates, regardless of the number of generators left.
-all generators over 50% progress get reduced to 50%
This would actually make it so that the further the survivors got, the more difficult it is for the last one to escape. Because if there are 7 unfinished gens left on the map, that's a lot and the survivor is more likely to stay hidden and complete one. However, if the survivors got four gens done, the killer only has 3 gens to patrol and that last survivor is never getting out.
Anyway, back before the hatch opened if there was one survivor left no matter what, it required the survivors completing at least two gens for the final survivor to have a chance at escaping through the hatch. Usually at least one was done, but still, a lot of final survivors never bothered to even try to finish that second gen, and instead they would stealth around the map avoiding the killer, doing nothing, holding the killer hostage hoping the killer would just DC. It was hell.
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More Prestige rewards: cool. I've prestiged my favorite survivors and am working on prestiging all killers.
More prestige levels beyond 3? No. [BAD WORD] no. Never. That would make all the BP I've put into killers and survivors after P350 a waste. No. No more grind. God, no.
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I hate Haddonfield I hate Haddonfield I hate Haddonfield I hate Haddonfield...
I hate the fences I hate the houses I hate the windows I hate the ridiculously long never-ending fences...
Did I mention I hate Haddonfield?
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1817182#Comment_1817182
Its the same "hatch shouldnt exist REEEE" mentality of old.
The hatch exists because the game is poorly designed. But, because the game is poorly designed, the hatch has to exist. Extra chances for the last survivor to escape have to exist. To remove those, the core gameplay would have to be seriously reworked.
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@terumisan said:
In all fairness after the hatch is closed the gates shouldn't be powered since hatch exists as a free escape to begin with they shouldn't have another chance on top of the second chance they get for losing
But... then what would the survivor do? They'd have no goal. If the survivor isn't going to one of the exit gates to attempt to open it, then how will the killer find them? Should the final survivor's feet just be glued to the ground and their aura shown to the killer upon closure of the hatch? Or are killers going to have to search the map for an hour for an immersed survivor?, because I do not want to go back to those dark ages.
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One that sticks out in my mind was completing an archive challenge as Doc. I needed to kill three survivors for it. These guys didn't go down easy, matchmaking usually screws me with survivors quite out of my league, so I did work for it. I close the hatch, find the final survivor about to start opening the door, and she puts down her item. Okay, fine, I don't actually need to kill her anyway so what's it matter, she can escape. She opened the door, then picked up the item, teabagged like mad, and ran out.
That'll never happen again. Unless I feel bad because the match went to hell or I just really like the final survivor for some reason, I'm taking that fourth kill.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816463#Comment_1816463
personally to get them to about the same power and not end the match early my thought was they let the last survivor open hatch
I have trouble imaging the devs doing that. It would make keys nearly useless. Survivors have no options with that. I really don't think keys are used that much now, as is. It's just that when they are used, they're really frustrating for the killer. On Friday, running Plunderer's and Appraisal for six matches, I found four keys in chests. I never used a single one. Another survivor who picked up one of my keys didn't get to use it, either. Keys as they are already require luck with the RNG and avoiding the killer while you scour the map looking for the hatch.
If a key allows only the survivor using it to escape, then they either A. abandon their team before the end of the match, or B. use it to escape after the killer has closed the hatch as the last survivor left.
Another thing that would make keys more fair would be a slight change to the hatch mechanic. When the hatch closes after a survivor uses a key, the hatch disappears and respawns elsewhere. Four survivors each with their own key can't line up at the hatch to escape. If two survivors are left and one escapes with a key, the final survivor can't just sit there and wait for the hatch to reopen; they have to go find its new location. (If a killer finds the hatch and closes it and no key was used to open it, then the hatch does not respawn elsewhere. This allows a daring final survivor to follow the killer to find where the hatch is and then use a key after the killer closes it.) While it sounds like it'd be annoying to code, I think it actually wouldn't be. When a map is generated before a match, a hatch location is chosen. With this change, the game just needs to choose four hatch spawn locations instead of one.
The iridescent add-on that lets the hatch stay open longer so more survivors can escape was something I suggested mostly because the "Where did they go" achievement exists, and I assume the devs don't want to rework that achievement. The add-on being iridescent means it can never screw a killer by being found in a chest. In normal gameplay, when not going for the achievement, that add-on would be competing with other add-ons like the milky glass, so a survivor would be sacrificing a valuable slot for expensive, risky (the hatch takes longer to open if using the iridescent add-on even if you're the only survivor left) altruism.
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@trick said:
fair enough fair enough , but whats the point xD like the animations are what they are , and they are all different , it started off simple and got better, thats how this game went why change trappers now i mean xD what wud it be? him manually putting a trap on their head or? it wud be buggy as hell haha
Actually, Trapper using one of his traps in his mori has been requested by other players previously. DbD has no environment kills to make things more interesting, the least it could do is have more than one mori animation per killer. Even the cool animations lose some of their shine after seeing them over and over again.
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Weird. The Pig can have a teabag-off (albeit a slow one) with a survivor, seems like that'd be more fun than watching them bleed out.
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I was just thinking about how to rework keys, what would be a way to make them not useless but also not have them prematurely end the match the way they can now.
As a rework: The key's base power only allows the survivor who uses it to escape through the hatch.
An iridescent add-on would allow the key to work as keys currently do, keeping the hatch open for a period of time, but it would require the survivor to go through an unlocking animation that is not instant and that the killer can interrupt. Keeping this function limited to an iridescent add-on means no one key found in a chest can allow multiple survivors to escape.
Sorry, I'm just throwing this out there and I should totally be in bed right now. I'll wake up and realize this idea was terrible, I'm sure lol.
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@trick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816400#Comment_1816400
i get 100k a match as killer why do i care about 7k ;DD
Mostly, I just want new mori animations and this seemed like a good excuse to bring it up.
However, the comment about moris needing to be worth the BP spent on them was inspired by this thread: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/212013/buyback-the-mori-from-us-the-right-thing-to-do
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The solution is BHVR needs to release more mori animations for the killers, because Trapper and Wraith have really crappy moris. If a mori offering is now mostly meant to just show a cool death animation with minimal effect to gameplay, then the mori animations should damn well be worth the BP spent on the offerings. Killers need multiple moris. Give them out in the Rifts, maybe instead of those twenty recolors of the same charm.
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@Greatamygdala said:
Yeah, I sometimes lose track of which is which in my many things I already have to keep track of. Like man I lost to a DS as well because all the survivors are using the same character and I picked up the a survivor I previously hooked..
This is why I ditch lobbies with multiples of the same character. When I play killer, queues are instant, so I can go by whatever criteria I want, and I'm not dealing with survivors who I'm gonna have trouble telling apart.
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I'm willing to bet it was nerfed because trying to code the rarity decrease caused unexpected problems that aren't easily fixed. I just can't believe this could possibly be a choice made because they thought the perk was too strong.
If they have problems decreasing the rarity in terms of percentages, they could make it so that with Hoarder survivors can't find anything better than brown, yellow, or at best green items. That seems more reasonable to code. Plunderer's be damned, Hoarder would trump that, and any item add-ons from Ace's perk would be guaranteed brown.
Then again, I've never seen their code, so who knows, it may be impossible to untangle.
Edit: Of course as I'm writing this an actual dev response is posted. D'oh.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213301/acceptable-disconnects
I've had a bunch of teammates block me in when I'm cleansing a totem lately. Like, it's happening 2-3 times in a few hours. And that's happened more than once. I DC every time and just go play another game. I'm not waiting to play a game that bans me from playing. Meanwhile, we have queues that are sometimes 20 minutes long. But hey, keep banning people from playing the game, devs.
Actually, if survivor queues are long, one of the quickest ways to fix it is just ban a bunch of survivor players. Boom, fewer survivors per killer player so the survivors left will have faster queues!
Really? You keep getting teammates who block you in? That's weird. And dickish. And a bannable offense, actually. If a teammate body blocks you and prevents you from playing the game, record it and report that player. If you don't report the player for doing it, they can't get banned and the problem will continue.
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RNG is the great equalizer in this game. Unfortunately. Doors always kinda close to each other, killer wins. Doors always far apart, survivor wins. How does the game make it fair? Well, sometimes the doors are close and sometimes they're far away, so it averages out to be perfect! (That last bit about it being perfect is sarcasm. But, this really is part of how they balance the game. RNG.)
If this situation is a common problem for you, Whispers is an amaaaaazing perk. I love Whispers. If this situation isn't a common problem for you, then things are averaging out the way they're meant to, and hey, Whispers is still amazing.
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I mean, players end up with a ton of crap from the Bloodweb they don't want even when they first buy it. What the game needs is the ability to trade-in unwanted items/add-ons/offerings to get back a percentage of the BP.
As stated above, the devs have never bought back anything else that's been nerfed. Survivors would've sold their BNPs and Insta-heals back in a heartbeat. Damn if I didn't wish they would buy back Leader and re-lock the teachable for me after its gen-progress-boost got moved over to Prove Thyself. But they're never gonna buy back anything after a change. The reasonable request is for them to finally add a way to get rid of unwanted junk cluttering up our inventories, because that would benefit players overall, both killers and survivors.
The one questionable thing here is that moris and keys weren't changed at the same time. Moris getting changed suggests keys are next, which means survivors get to use the keys they've been stocking up before the future change. That shouldn't be the case. Not telling players that a mori nerf was coming in the next update was the right call. Not waiting to go live with the mori nerf until their key rework is ready was, I personally believe, the wrong call. No, you don't want killers using up their stockpile of moris, that'd be hellish, but it's kind of a kick in the teeth to killers to wave a flag telling survivors now is the time to use their keys just when killers lose what they consider their best defense against keys. C'mon, man, even if the current conditions are a test to see how keys perform against the nerfed moris, it just looks bad.
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Survivors dying after the exit gate is open for no reason other than they didn't leave when they had the chance. They didn't stick around to make a save or something, no, they wanted to make noise notifications at the killer or get the hatch or open the other exit gate which I've decided is my exit gate, no they don't get to open it. Whether playing survivor or killer, it's always funny to me when screwing around gets someone killed. I recently stuck Bloodwarden in my meme-ing around build as Spirit for when the survivors decide to test me. I mean, they're the ones who stuck around to try to flashlight blind me, but hopefully they take the surprise of Bloodwarden in good fun (seriously, just 'cause a killer kills you doesn't mean it's malicious; have a sense of humor, guys).
I also enjoy sneaking up on survivors on gens/totems/chests and getting a grab. That is always fun to me. And hook grabs feel soooo good, too. Oh! and cleansing a dull totem as the last gen pops and suddenly it lights up for two seconds before BOOM, it's destroyed. I love that.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816054#Comment_1816054
Probably Devour Hope.
Yeah, you're probably right. The requirements for the Devour Hope one were crazy specific: Hook 5 times, Hit survivor while he is exposed 2 times, Mori 1 time.
There was also one for hitting an Exposed survivor while running Haunted Ground. I probably used Myers for that, too. I never seem to be able to find survivors before the HG timer is up.
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Having it only work from a certain distance away or (not and, or) truly limiting the number of hatchets she can carry to one would I think be enough to make it more reasonable without making it useless. One day I may try to use it to get her stupid "down 100 survivors from a crapton of meters away" achievement, so I'd personally prefer the first option, and I definitely don't want them to just remove the add-on altogether.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1816026#Comment_1816026
This.
The descriptions often trick us into thinking the player needs to get the direct outcome from the perk in question.
I remember having an infuriating time with the Devour Hope challenge a few tomes back, embarrassingly misunderstanding that I simply need to have the perk equipped and mori, not literally get 5 stacks and mori via Devour Hope.
Oh man, there was one where the killer was supposed to down Exposed survivors while running some perk, I forget what, pretty sure it was one of the hexes. But screw that noise, I just put on Myers lol.
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I don't like the "complete in a single match" challenges, either. Sometimes they can be quite frustrating, especially ones where it feels like the stars need to align.
You do realize that with the "8 gens with PGTW," you only need to kick 8 gens during a single match? You don't necessarily have to hook a single survivor. PGTW doesn't have to be active when you kick the gens, you just need to have it equipped. I put on Discordance, PGTW, and Surveillance and so I knew every time they touched a gen and was able to go right back and kick the thing.
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@PyroGL said:
Last time I heard a complain about the entity bubble and it obstructing the survivors view, the dev response was that this was intended. They did not give a specific reason why.
Yeah, I remember this, too. Same goes for the completed generator notification bubble obscuring the killer's vision. It forces the player to have to predict the opposition's movements.
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@sQuAde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815765#Comment_1815765
its not ridiculous lol, you will eventually get players 4+ ranks above your current rank
and it does NOT happen all the time, and you literally exaggerated a lot by stating that we """""""""should"""""""" match rank 20 survivors with rank 1 killers
that doesn't happen since 2017, and that's that. You will go against good survivors eventually, fact. You will get high rank killers such as 11-7 if you're 13, fact. The rank fluctuates but it doesn't fluctuate up to 10 RANKS. Your examples are completely ridiculous.
I've gotten red rank survivors as a rank 17 killer. It absolutely happens. Not years ago, now. The game's matchmaking is practically turned off when survivor queues get long, it throws new players (both survivors and killers) to the wolves to get players into matches. It's a problem. Unskilled killers should not be put up against highly skilled survivors. A game should be a fun challenge, not an ass stomping. Most players are not going to stick around and play through that, they're going to have numerous miserable matches and say screw it, and queues for this game will get worse. DbD needs players to stick around long enough to improve.
I have seen red rank survivors come on these forums and complain about going up against grey and yellow rank killers, as well. They don't have fun going through an entire match not interacting with the killer, because that's exactly what happens. They waited through a 20 minute queue to do gens. Players want a challenge. The majority of players are not happy when matchmaking just throws anyone and everyone together.
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@R52G said:
I feel. I started playing last March (2020) and I struggle a lot with playing killers such as Hillbilly, Nurse, Huntress, Deathslinger, Blight, and others to a point where I just think that I’m just bad as killer. I’m okay as other killers but not good with certain ones. I wish they’d do something where it would help people like me be able to practice these “higher skill” killers so I don’t look like an ass trying to saw through a tree when I aim for a survivor.
This game needs a real tutorial mode so bad. There are some skills that help all killers and there are other killer-specific skills that really could use a good training mode. Back when I was trying to learn Nurse, I must've played dozens of matches where all I did was blink around without ever even glancing in a survivor's direction. I'm sure that was tons of fun for the survivors, but it's not like there was any other way for me to learn blinking.
The game throws killers into the deep end with no guidance whatsoever (the tutorial they have right now is so useless). The intuitive way to play killer includes tunneling and camping, but the way to win as killer is to pressure gens, and the tutorial gives no hint of that at all.
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I'd say that right now the most punishing thing for new killers is the lack of any sort of decent matchmaking. New killers go up against veteran survivors, get their ass stomped, earn like no BP so they can't even unlock perks to help them out, and what, they're expected to just play through that? I don't understand why any new killer would stick around.
New survivors don't necessarily have a good time either. The lack of matchmaking means plenty of them are going against experienced killers, so they're waiting in a 20 minute queue for a 1 minute match where they have no fun whatsoever.
If matchmaking worked as it should and had people of similar skill playing with each other, then the other stuff could be worked out. If the strength of all killers depended on the skill of the person playing them, as should be the case, then that would be perfect because the killer would not be going against survivors who are so skilled that it takes an easy, superpowered monster to stand any chance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815494#Comment_1815494
Agreed on the variety part, it's hard to strike a balance when you want variety.
And yes, Injured off Hook. The issue of the hour/week/month... It's always been an issue. And I do agree it needs to be addressed. But only in a manner that targets literal tunneling and not "The survivor was a dumbass and ran at me".
This is all just spitballin', but personally, I'd love it if (basegame) when you were Unhooked, you had DS for ~8s whose timer paused while in a Chase, and if downed while active would allow you to stun the Killer for 2s when picked up if you hit a moderately difficult Skillcheck. (Can't outwait the timer if downed within the window, and the Stun/Duration isn't significant enough to be super effective (unless you used the DS perk itself), but can serve as a Pavlovian response for new Killers, and make it seem like a '######### you dude' for the Survivor getting tunneled.). I would also love it if basegame you could recover the last 5% of the dying state over 50s.
Regarding Events, I think that's why they're planning on reducing the number, but upping the quality of them.
Bringing up events was more a comment about how the game is more punishing than rewarding and so we see players really latch onto the chance for more rewards. I play some other games and if their events didn't offer rewards I wouldn't care, those games are fun enough and rewarding enough as they are. DbD is not like that. A game can be more fun and less rewarding, or it can be difficult and frustrating but very rewarding for your efforts. DbD is frustrating and difficult and not very rewarding, the worst of all worlds. If they're going to keep the reward system the way it is, matches should be longer, both sides should get to participate and have fun.
Anyway, sometimes the devs try to use rewards to encourage players to play a certain way (perks like BBQ and Make Your Choice, the emblem system) but there's a tendency to punish players for not playing a certain way (DS, any slug-related survivor perk, possibly BT, and again the emblem system), and when the game encourages killers to chase injured survivors by having it be that the only benefit to a survivor being injured is that they're easier to chase, but then punishes the killer for doing so, well that just frustrates the crap out of killers. Or even when the killer does try to follow the rules: they play nice all match, don't tunnel, but then lose any chance at a kill due to DS in the late game. The game sends conflicting messages to players, and adding more punishments doesn't help that, it just confuses and frustrates all the more.
Punishing people for playing "in a way we don't like" instead of addressing the issues causing it in the first place isn't going to increase overall happiness within the game. Everyone should be able to have fun while playing optimally, and that requires changes to core gameplay.
Sorry, I seem to have gone off-topic from the original 12-hooks thing.
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The reason they're doing it this way is they want to boost their player numbers. You don't need to play to do that, you just need to log in once a day and boom, their player numbers for that day look high, even if you didn't really do anything. A Bloodhunt only boosts players for one weekend. And for some reason BHVR takes their Bloodpoint economy very seriously, keeping the grind frustrating.
Also, for anyone saying they're giving players something for nothing, that's not true: they're giving you 10k BP a day to boost their player numbers. That makes investors happy and translates into actual money for BHVR. (Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to spread misinformation. This is how business works, though.) Given the stupid grind of this game and how unrewarding it can feel at times, plus how Halloween was an absolute nothing of an event, wanting a bit more out of the advent calendar doesn't seem entitled. Don't get me wrong, the advent calendar's nice, it's better than nothing, but it could be better and it'd be as easy as a higher BP gift which would cost them literally nothing while still artificially boosting their player count. There's nothing wrong with pointing that out as long as people keep their expectations realistic, both in not asking for the moon and also not expecting BHVR to change their plans whatsoever because it's super highly unlikely they'd change their planned rewards.
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The original post here is one of my favorite things I've read on this forum. Seriously. Really made me smile.
(There's really no reason not to have fun here. Taking DbD seriously or getting invested in the us vs them garbage is just... well, quit the game now and save yourself the eternal damnation of frustration that is Dead by Daylight. If you're gonna stay here, ask for unicorns that you can call with a brown flute item which will immediately make an open hatch spawn under its hooves. Every game could use more unicorns.)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815391#Comment_1815391
Which is why I'm not against anti-tunneling measures. Asides from BT though, DS is basically a slug simulator. where either the Survivor or the Killer is waiting on a timer, it's on-rails in a much more yes/no fasion.
And no, the game has an incredibly strong core structure. Survivors do Gens/Unhooks and get Chased, Killers Patrol Gens/Hooks and Chase. Balancing problems are simply present given you want to add variety, and doing so can have drastic (see unbalanced MMR) or unforeseen differences.
What I'm concerned with is that the structure you're talking about is adding in additional on-rails features to Survivors that Killers have to follow, and in general just serves to make Killers more... Boring, less options.
You could add a dynamic number of Hook states to Survivors based on the number of generators done compared to Hooks in addition to dynamic gen slowdown based on Hooks as well, but then that makes the game feel more like you're facing the game and another player. Rather than a player's perk choice and their skill alone.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815408#Comment_1815408
See above. Slugging is a means to fewer hooks if you prevent Hook saves that way (If I have 3 people down, does it not make sense to go for the 4th if I see them?).
I'm concerned that you're advocating gameplay measures that automatically slow the game down based on game-state with no input from either side. Raising the floor, but also lowering the skill ceiling.
Mmm, I'm using the word "structure" in a more general sense. Too general, actually, so my bad. But there need to be changes made to the core of the game.
People want variety, but like with their newest killer The Twins, the devs add variety and there are a lot of people unhappy about how that variety plays out. A lot of killer players feel weak as The Twins, and trying to make the killer stronger by slugging makes survivors hate it. As it is right now, slugging is an absolutely necessary mechanic, but that doesn't mean killers enjoy doing it, either. Unless the survivors have done something to annoy me I feel bad if they get down to half their bleedout bar during the match. Variety without anything to keep it in check (and trying to keep it in check with annoying cool downs is not fun for killers) is messy and problematic.
Anyway, one of the problems with the core gameplay mechanics is being injured. Being injured has two effects: one, it means that barring something like BT or Mettle of Man, the survivor will go down with the next hit, and 2. the survivor is easier to find due to blood trails and injured noises. Both of those only encourage the killer to chase that survivor. If the killer does not chase the survivor, they are not taking advantage of the survivor being injured. This is part of why killers tunnel survivors off the hook. It just makes sense. Injuries do not slow down repair speeds (except with Thanatophobia, which has little effect and again, we're talking band-aids for gameplay issues), whereas killing a survivor slows down repair speeds immensely. A problem at the core of the game.
Another thing we've seen recently is players being upset when a holiday comes around and there's no event, because despite the variety of killers in the game, DbD still seems to be lacking something for a lot of players. Adding a new mechanic feels fresh and fun, even though that addition is never perfect it seems to fill a hole. The game asks a lot of players and doesn't reward enough in return, both in terms of the amount of effort put in to win and the misery that comes with a bad match. Events offer an extra reward, and feeling rewarding is something DbD really needs. When survivors sit in a queue for 20 minutes to get a match where they spend four minutes slugged and then die with very few points, they just feel frustrated and who can blame them, that sucks. When a killer gets gen rushed and only gets a couple hooks because the survivors zenned out holding M1 all match while the killer spent the whole time frantically trying to win a chase, that sucks. Yes, we can say "git gud," but new players won't bother and won't stick around when their first experiences are nothing but misery and they could play something else that's actually fun even when first starting out.
The EGC provides some structure to matches and I think it's one of the best additions to the game since I started playing over two years ago.
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Killer/survivor queue times change for me depending on the time of day and day of the week.
Anyway, there shouldn't be a killer shortage. It takes four times as many survivors as killers to play a single match, so going by numbers alone survivors should always be the side with a shortage.
There's more to it than just playing with friends. I mean, that's part of it, but that's not the whole story. There are fewer killers on console because of how [BAD WORD] the performance is in terms of fps and frame drops. There are a lot of variables at play here. And as nifty as 2v8 might be, it would take a lot of reworking to make that viable, there'd have to be a lot of changes between 1v4 and 2v8, possibly to the point that it'd be like playing a completely different game. The devs haven't even perfected 1v4, yet.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815283#Comment_1815283
IMO if the Killer can't be cruel if they choose to be, that kinda washes out the Power Role feeling of being a Killer. Now it should be something that the Killer is heavily dissuaded from (or else you get the Deathgarden problem), but not something completely prevented.
(EG: a Survivor that is re-hooked too quickly after being Unhooked is sent to the other side of the map by The Entity (like PH's Cages), Injured and Unhooked (still losing a Hook State), but not something like they are invincible until another Survivor gets Hooked.)
You mention the killer being cruel, which makes sense, but it's still a game that should be fun for both sides. Being cruel within the confines of the game shouldn't exclude the possibility of fun, but right now it rather does. DbD is severely lacking in some areas. The closest thing it has to severe injuries are the mangled state (oooh, a red bar so you hold M1 longer while healing) and Deep Wounds (oooh, hold M1 mending). There's no torture or dismemberment or anything (I'm not saying it'd be easy to add or even that it should be added, just pointing out that the in-game mechanic of being a cruel killer is severely lacking. What the killer can do to be cruel right now is tunnel and slug but that sucks for survivors, it doesn't add to their gaming experience it literally takes away their ability to participate in the game.).
The game's lack of structure makes it really difficult to balance killers, too. A killer that's too strong can take out the survivors way too quickly and isn't fun to play against, but a weak killer isn't fun to play as, and the reason that sweet spot between the two seems damn near impossible to hit is because of the game's lack of structure. There's nothing to prevent a killer from slugging and tunneling at five gens to end the game too soon and there's no timer putting pressure on the survivors when it comes to gens nor anything preventing gens from going too quickly making set-up killers' lives hell. Everything is all over the place, it's a scatter-brained mess held together with peeling tape and spaghetti.
When you have SWF vs solo, perks as band-aids, and killers with such totally different powers, the game becomes impossible to balance both in terms of a fair match and in terms of fun.
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The problem with a perk like Gearhead is that it's conditional on a very crappy bit of RNG. While I was doing those "great skill checks" challenges, I noticed that a lot of times I'd repair an entire generator, get one or two skill checks, and then for the rest of the generator... nothing. The skill checks just stopped coming. Two skill checks for repairing an entire generator.
Have I mentioned lately how much the RNG in this game can freaking suck sometimes?
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The things that make SWF stronger are information and coordination. So, the way to bring solo survivors up to that level is by providing them more information and more ways to coordinate. Information like knowing if the killer is chasing another survivor (if the killer is chasing the obsession, then this information is given to you, so why not for any survivor being chased?). Information like how many totems have been cleansed (at least provide a counter with Small Game for god's sake). An option to coordinate without requiring comms (like a wheel that allows you to say certain stuff along the lines of "the killer is hard-camping me on the hook, just do gens").
You don't want to provide too much information, otherwise perks on both sides become useless. And you don't want to make it so that survivors are forced to use comms or else be severely handicapped (plus, an options wheel would allow players who speak differently languages to play together while comms would screw them).
Those are my feelings on it.
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Yeah, I'd like for matches to be longer. As survivor, if matches are too short, then it's just miserable. If matches are too long and drawn out, then it's boring. There's a sweet spot in there where I have a chance to participate in multiple aspects of gameplay within the match so that whether I escape or die I still had fun.
I don't tunnel as killer, I do try to go for hooking survivors multiple times and "spreading the love." But, I'm also not usually playing to kill. I make the game harder on myself by playing in a manner that's more fun for survivors, so to make the game easier on myself I've just sorta said screw it to the idea of "winning."
(As the game is right now, I prefer doing challenges and going for achievements over playing to kill or playing to survive.)
DbD lacks structure, and while that may be part of its initial charm, I think it's bad for the game's health. There are ways for each side to win that are just no fun for the opposition, and while those are legitimate strategies they are not fun. The game shouldn't punish those strategies, the game should be reworked so that those strategies can't even come into play. Of course, that would require a crapton of reworking, so it probably won't happen.
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@Emsilyy3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1815197#Comment_1815197
I’ve never said about removing keys myself so don’t twist people’s arguments and words. I’ve clearly said that I’ve seen threads about people wanting them gone, and I’m curious to know why. A rework is perfect, but some people’s ideas are just too one sided. I agree they need a re work, yes, but what I’m also asking for is structured ideas as to what can happen.
Also, I can mention the slugging-tunnelling because I’m tired of double standards in people’s posts. It’s stupid.
Okay, if you want to mention tunneling and slugging, you can. But I never mentioned it. In general people are going to be biased towards whatever role they favor. That's human nature.
I'm not a dev, I don't get paid to come up with how they should fix their game. Nor should they necessarily listen to the ideas of their players, anyway. Personally, I think it would be reasonable if only the survivor holding the key could use it to escape. However, there's a challenge requiring all four survivors to escape through the hatch, so that becomes problematic. Maybe a key only allows one survivor to escape unless all five gens are done, in which case then the key works as it does now keeping the hatch open for a period time.
I don't want keys gone. I love finding keys in chests. I almost never get to use them, unfortunately, because I'm a killer-magnet, not a hatch-magnet. But still, I enjoy finding keys.
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@Emsilyy3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1814600#Comment_1814600
Now it all makes sense, you stole all the keys and that’s why I never find one.
But in all seriousness 3 gens means 2 survivors can escape. And 9/10 the killer has the chance of finding the hatch whilst patrolling generators? They still have to do gens to get to that point. If people are saying 3 gens are easy then make gem speeds longer by 15 seconds, or killers need to run Franklin’s.
Theres such a double standard for this game. If a survivor gets tunnelled or slugged then they have to use ds or ub, so if killers are so butthurt about keys, why can’t they just bring Franklin’s?
Okay, I'm not trying to sound harsh, I understand the desire to compare aspects of the game, but.... don't change the topic. This is about keys. Nothing was ever said about tunneling or slugging. There are enough us vs them arguments when it comes to killers and survivor all over these forums. We're talking about keys.
I read farther down the thread and see you talking about removing keys. What? You never mentioned removing keys in your original post. You asked why are keys unbalanced, people are responding. I don't think keys should be removed; they just need to be reworked. Moris just got changed, keys should also get some attention so that they don't end the entire match prematurely just when a killer actually becomes dangerous.
It is quite confusing for you to ask about why keys are unbalanced and then assume everyone responding wants them removed completely from the game. Sure, some people want keys removed entirely, there are always a small amount of people wanting anything. But most people who find keys unbalanced just want them reworked.
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It takes practice. Different strategies for dealing with it include taking a step back, crab-walking, and watching for their pattern and waiting for them to do it before going for the hit. I still mess up plenty. Having your sensitivity at max on console really helps, at least for me; I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to keep up with a turning survivor if the sensitivity were any lower.
(I can't pull it off as a survivor. I theoretically know how, but doing it in practice I just get my ass put straight on the ground.)
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@Dpooly said:
@PassarinoT I wasn't implying that this would be the 'end all' band-aid fix, just a small QoL change
A "quality of life" change would be like changing the color of skill checks so they're easier to see. It'd be changing the Archives so that you can have separate challenges for survivor and killer selected at the same time. What you are suggesting is a balance change, not a QoL change. And it's not small, neither in effect nor in the amount of work it would take to implement.
Anyway, Spirit has no control over her husk, she'd have no defense against this, no counter to it. It would frustrate the crap out of killer players.
Also, survivors can use flashlights in a similar way right now. I've seen plenty who will attempt to blind the Spirit to see if she's faking. If she gets blinded, she's faking. If she doesn't get blinded, it's her husk. Of course, this doesn't account for bad aim or Lightborn, but in the majority of cases it works. It doesn't take her out of her power (which again, would be super frustrating and have no counter), but it's useful for the "'is she faking' mindgame" part you mentioned.
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Do you like the animation? That's what moris are for, really: a nifty death animation.
So, this is probably a killer-specific question. Some killers, like Trapper and Wraith, have really crappy moris, so theirs aren't worth the BP in my opinion. Other killers, like Hag and Spirit, have moris that I enjoy watching, so those could be considered worth the BP.
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I played six survivor games today running Plunderer's and that new perk from Elodie, Appraisal. There were no extra chest offerings. I found four keys and a rainbow map. (I was running it to find flashlights so I could do the stupid blinding challenge without tipping the killer off. I found one flashlight in those six matches with all that chest-searching. One.)
Anyway, one key can get all four survivors out. As stated above, it's pretty easy for survivors to get three gens done. It's the fourth and fifth gens where the killer can apply more pressure. With a key, though, the survivors can bypass getting out of a three-gen. One death, and the other three skip out through the hatch, which absolutely screws the killer.
The devs themselves say the killer isn't really meant to stop the first three gens from getting done, the killer gets stronger when it's down to one or two gens, and yet there's an item in the game that lets survivors skip out at this very part. Makes perfect sense.
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@Exerath1992 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1812564#Comment_1812564
The cool down? Really?
Yeah. Back before they gave her the cool down, I was trying to learn her, putting in a lot of time and effort to get good at her on PS4. I could deal with the fatigue, but when they added the cool down it was just too much. I can't get used to it, I'm always doing it too early and missing out on the second blink. I used to enjoy even just blinking around the map as her without hitting survivors, but there's nothing fun about her anymore. She's not longer an entertaining challenge, just a miserable chore.