TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964500#Comment_3964500
You could hit them and push them out, and that would end the teabagging. That's the equivalent of the abandon button right there. If you refuse to do that, then you'd refuse to use the abandon button if it were available.
Lol. What? In what world is being forced to go to BOTH gates, hit survivors 8 times all while being tbagged the same as hitting two buttons and immediately ending the match? You're talking about 90 seconds of BM vs 1 second without BM.
I refuse to go to the gates. I just tab out and let the survivors waste their own time, but I would absolutely use the abandon button. I don't mind losing. I don't like having it rubbed in my face.
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964487#Comment_3964487
This is the first time that Huntress has seen you all match, isn't it?
First? no
She was tunneling though on each target. Thats not my problem if she wants to focus on ONE person and then do the same thing on repeat.Also, Nancy wasn't tunneled. She gave up. Probably got hit early with an Iri hatchet and called it quits. Because you literally earn more points from losing 10 second chases and hitting Wriggle/Struggle checks. Laurie MAY have been tunneled, I guess. Though 15000 points is a little much for someone who was hard tunneled after someone else gave up.
Nancy did not give up though, she was tunneled immediately off her hook. Unfortunately I dont have the entire match to post I didnt have OBS going just the usual 30 second clip capture at the moment.
Laurie was always there for the save is probably why she has so many points.
Plus one of the gens she worked was part of the reason we got out. I found one at like 50-60% so the 3 gens I had to do while jill chased was more like 2.5.Finally, you only got out thanks to a bug. That hatchet clearly hit you right in shoulder, but the hit registered against Jill, because for some reason the game has been prioritizing hooked survivors over actual targets lately.
No she clearly hit Laurie there was no hit on me. She was not even close to the side of hitting me. It was pretty clear it went right at the jill. You have to be on the side to get a hit with how large huntress hatchet hit boxes are. Everyone who plays huntress knows how large the hit box is on hatchets. Thats not a bug, thats the huntress not taking the extra half second and messing up.So… no. I don't think you "earned" any tbags here. You spent the entire match hiding,
You need to apply your point logic in the other direction. If that was the case I would have not been ahead of points on Jill.
So no you are flat out wrong here. I saved multiple times its just you cant body block a iri hatchet huntress. You can trade sure. But laurie gave me no opportunity for that. And a 3v1 you really have to sit on gens, not recklessly go feed extra hooks.
Definetely didnt hide though, otherwise I wouldnt be top score. You dont top score by being a gen jockey and hide all match. Thats not how that works.You're very clearly embellishing the truth. I've been hard tunneled off of hook before and have went down almost immediately, and I earned 5k to 10k points. I've hard tunneled at times and the survivor earned 5k to 10k points. You earn MORE points than that just by losing three 10 second chases and wriggling.
And, yes, it is your problem. If a survivor is getting tunneled, you save them by taking hits. Huntress is a 4.4 killer. This one only had one hatchet. You taking a hit or even down for this "tunneled" Nancy could have helped her get away. When I tunnel, survivors are much more likely to get away if other survivors are slowing me down.
That clearly hit you.
You couldn't have saved multiple times. A hook save is what, 1K? 800? I forget. You only had 2-3K Altruism. So you mean to tell me you didn't do a single heal all game? Really? With a healing perk and a juiced medkit? I'm pressing X to doubt.
You have more points than Jill because you did three gens, got extra points for those gens for the masquerade, and you got about 5k in the last 10 seconds of the game off of that late hook save, two protection hits, and final "chase."
It's kind of convenient that you don't have any evidence of this awesome come from behind win besides a 30 second clip of you earning what are really your first Boldness points of the match during EGC.
PS: You can absolutely body block against an Iri Huntress. It might involve you going down, but you getting your first hook is better than Nancy getting her third, right?
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964469#Comment_3964469
It does though.
The only time it is not is unbreakable.
Game design isnt designed around "what if" perks. Its designed around game play.
Otherwise we would still have no basekit BT and require someone to bring borrowed time so the killer couldnt immediately down someone after an unhook.If all four survivors are in the exit gates, and the killer isn't playing a specific couple of characters/addons/perks, then it is literally impossible for them to do anything other than get tbagged. So we shouldn't design around "what if perks/addons" and design around the fact that in the VAST majority of cases, once those gates are opened, the game is over.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963720#Comment_3963720
While you aren't wrong she needs a ground up rework not simple buffs.
Then they should have made the rework before nuking her. Leaving a character that people paid money for in this state for 9 months is unacceptable. If they were going to nuke her this bad, they either needed to make reworking her their TOP priority, or they needed to already have a rework ready to go.
However, it's been 9 months and we literally have NOTHING to show for it. They're still in the "planning stages." They have done next to zero work getting a character that people paid for back online. They either need to start offering refunds or they need to buff her back into a playable state until the rework is done.
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@ChuckingWong said:
If OP had their way, plays like this wouldnt happen.
WARNING
May cause emotional distress due to control button being used in gameplay.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUZR15c655I
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T2U2SA3VXO1I/image.png
Look at that. Not even 2k points? Really? You're gonna tunnel THAT HARD cmon. Game was 2v1 for 3 gens that I had to do, which Jill held chase for WITH DEADLOCK. Giga teammate.
Huntress camped out and tunneled both of those survivors but the first one didnt even get to play the game. That deserves a bit of control button if you ask me.
Especially with iri hatchet.
If OP had their way plays like this couldnt happen. Someone would be hooked and then theyd just abandon. Or if someone got the unhook theyd just abandon.
Gameplay at this stage MATTERS.
This is the first time that Huntress has seen you all match, isn't it? Prior to saving Jill, you had maybe 1500 points in Boldness, and about 3000 points in Altruism. I'm guessing you spent the majority of the match hiding.
Also, Nancy wasn't tunneled. She gave up. Probably got hit early with an Iri hatchet and called it quits. Because you literally earn more points from losing 10 second chases and hitting Wriggle/Struggle checks. Laurie MAY have been tunneled, I guess. Though 15000 points is a little much for someone who was hard tunneled after someone else gave up.
Finally, you only got out thanks to a bug. That hatchet clearly hit you right in shoulder, but the hit registered against Jill, because for some reason the game has been prioritizing hooked survivors over actual targets lately.
So… no. I don't think you "earned" any tbags here. You spent the entire match hiding, let your teammates get "tunneled" without taking aggro or protection hits, and only escaped thanks to a bug. But even if the Huntress did "deserve" bags here, does that mean that any time a survivor does something I don't like I can bleed them out? Kill two survivors, then let the flashlight user bleed out for four minutes while their last teammate tries to finish gens? Or is it only okay when Survivors do it?
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Agreed. What they've done to the Skull Merchant is extremely anti-consumer. People paid good money for her and her skins. Essentially deleting her from the game for years is not ok.
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Absolutely hate playing against him. Stealth and ranged should not be a combination.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963552#Comment_3963552
Agency is directly linked to fun. It is unfun because there is a lack of agency. And no, you dont have the "agency" to dodge bottles, there is an instant AoE around the bottle that you would need to move 6 meters per second for to dodge.
Sure you can. I've dodged Clown bottles in the past. You dodge it the same way you dodge Unknown AoE attacks.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963310#Comment_3963310
Except, as a killer, you have basekit counterplay to it and none of them remove agency. If anything, if you want to compare it to survivor mechanics, you should apply that to Chemical Trap, as it forces something you cannot possibly counter and thus removes player agency. Which, I agree with, fyi. But even then, Chemical Trap cant be spammed on every pallet you encounter. Champion of Light only really has an effect if survivors blind you at the last second of a pallet break, and even then they technically lose more distance than if they just ran away.
As for fun, it's subjective, sure, but when 80% of players facing it actively despise a mechanic because it removes agency.
Its not that its not fun for survivors, its that its NEVER fun for survivors. There are a lot of mechanics that people consider unfun that others consider fun. Near 20% hinderance is never fun. You literally move at a speed that you would walk at with Fixated. You're effectively facing a killer who moves at 144%(comparable to a cloaked wraith) if they have Flask equipped, or 135%(comparable to legion in frenzy) if they dont, but you cant fast vault windows, only med or slow vault them.
And no, they didnt lose 60% of their effectiveness. Most good purple bottles have survivors run through multiple times or have the killer hit them within 1.5 seconds after they exit the cloud. Again, its roughly a 1 meter distance loss per bottle. That's at most 10% more distance assuming the survivor gets hit by a single atom of the cloud.
Purple bottles were too weak 5 years ago, then haste was added to compensate because more hinderance or just more bottles wasnt a healthy option. Then more bottles were added anyway to give both bottles more compatability. But as you can see, just adding more purple bottles wasnt a healthy option. Players then have used the additional bottles just to play purple bottles, which isnt a healthy playstyle. The only reason it took this long for them to adjust the purple bottles after increasing the bottle count, is because it took 4 years for people to discover Flask of Bleach. They were too distracted by Pinky Finger for the first 3 years and when that got nerfed people who dont main Clown stopped playing Clown.
Seriously, this isnt a bad change, in fact, I can easily see his bottle cap being increased too before it hits live servers. Clown gets a lot more fun to face again, despite his purple bottles only having a relatively minor nerf, while his haste bottles see a significant buff(on top of better reloads, which was the biggest time consumption for Clown over the course of a match).Oh, so now it's NOT about fun, but about "agency." Funny how the goalposts move. You have the "agency" to dodge the bottles. Just like the killer has the "agency" to face a wall when picking up.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963423#Comment_3963423
Nightlight stats for Killrates are currently not useable. They count abandoned Survivors as escaped (since it shows the Escape Icon). So if a Killer slugs for the 4K and downs the last Survivor and the two remaining Survivors abandon, for nightlight it is a 2K, even if it is a 4K because the Killer will hook the two Bots which are left behind. If the last Survivor abandons when getting downed, nightlight coutns it as a 3K, even if it is a 4K because the last Survivor gets morid.
If the Killer slugs 4 Survivors from the beginning and hooks them afterwards, but all of them abandoned, nightlight counts it as a 0K while it is a 4K.
You get the picture, Killrate stats on nightlight are currently not really worth anything.
That's the official DBD stats, not Nightlight. Nightlight counts abandons as kills.
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I think the gen speeds are more of an issue than medkits.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963290#Comment_3963290
The fun of purple bottles is very one sided tho, and especially at 19% hinderance, there is 0 challenge to it.
And once again, he does have a difficult playstyle, which is why 1 second activation for clown and 2 second activation for survivors, with that 1% additional haste will push his yellow bottles in the realm of significant lower difficulty while also being insanely rewarding with perks like STBFL or Rapid Brutality.
They wont be killing what makes Clown different, because the haste is already what pushes Clown to quite a high skill ceiling with a ton of reward. If we just delete Flask of Bleach from the game right now, I rather would face a pink bottle only clown than a clown who uses yellow bottles too.
Once again, any hinderance that's 15% or higher basekit, needs downsides to compensate for the fact that it kills loops AND kills going from tile to tile. Especially considering that next to the 15% slowdown, he also has access to a 10% haste effect.
Ultimately, Clown is boring to face with his current hinderance effect. And that can matter a lot more than him being balanced in a 1v4(again, this change is a buff overall).
It's the same with Kaneki's stun, 2 seconds of immobility should be extremely difficult to pull off, because otherwise it gets boring. Kaneki is boring due to his removal of agency. Clown is boring because his massive reduction of agency.
12% hinderance is plenty for basekit bottles. If you wanna use pink bottles more often, use Flask after the changes for a 14% hinderance, more than plenty of hinderance to get hits if you're good."The fun of purple bottles is very one sided tho"
The fun of flashlights is very one sided. They should be nerfed significantly. The fun of hook sabo's is very one sided. They should be nerfed significantly. The fun of pretty much every item is very one sided. They should be nerfed. The fun of Shift+W is very one sided. It should be nerfed. The fun of exhaustion perks is very one sided. They should basically be useless now.
See, the problem when you try to say, "This isn't fun for survivors!" is that the same argument can and should be applied evenly. Either we care about how fun something is for the other side, or we don't.
EDIT: And you can pretend like it's not that big of a nerf to Purple Bottles, but they lost 60% of their effectiveness.
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I think that the "Otherworldly" voters are very split between what they want, while the "Chimeric" voters pretty much all want a werewolf. I'd be pretty stunned if Beastly didn't win this time or didn't at least place second. Cosmic or Divine will be the other top choice.
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You're looking at this wrong. This isn't a continuation of the last vote. This is an entirely new vote with five new options (two of which happen to be from the second choice of the last vote.)
You're also forgetting that 40% of the voters from last time don't have their first choice represented at all. For all you know, most of the people who voted for "Mundane," for instance, could have wanted a werewolf or whatever as their second choice.
EDIT: To be more clear, what I mean is that while "Otherworldy" may have won the last vote, it may not be the most popular individual choice. Some may be looking for an alien. Others, Cthulu.
If, like you said, Beastly wins this vote and Divine places second, we'd get five more choices. Three flavors of Beastly, and two flavors of Divine. Most of the people voting Divine are picturing some beautiful angel-like killer with wings and a sword. What if that isn't the case? What if the two options don't follow the picture in people's heads?
The point is, people's votes may change as things get more specific. I like that we're not being locked into an otherworldly killer.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960043#Comment_3960043
if i was in a swf i would just run this perk or have someone run it and make sure to get downed as close to a vault or pallet as possible and just fast vault during pick up animation. it's just a flashbang alt since if you mess up a pallet save you can vault the pallet and still get the save then smoke bomb to cover up any tracks
Yup. It's yet another tool to deny hooks.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959621#Comment_3959621
This is absolutely feedback I can bring back to the team - both regarding Franklin's and the Jailer.
With regards with the standard spawns, though, I'd be interested to see if the spawn times still feels too quick when the extended times for longer paths is factored in during testing. While it is 4 seconds on the short end for the Jailer and Assassin, this can be extended up to 8 seconds by drawing a longer path.
Wow. A whole 8 seconds. Down from 20.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959526#Comment_3959526
sounds like a you issue, clown is good and overall got a buff, but yes, focus on the negative and never improve
Don't make me do the math on you
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/450481/purple-bottle-is-used-more-so-we-nerf-it
because majority of clowns only use purple slowdown and nothing more,
behavior and clown mains want to use both, the yellow bottle isnt just for "mobility" its also a chase tool.
im not a clown main and i managed to use the yellow bottle in chase alot more then purple around a 40/60 split,
its still a much easier pick and alot more value to gain, but you shouldnt be spamming it in chase 24/7
this just feels like a complained because you cant slowdown spam onto the survivors anymore, which you still can, just less effective to do so without the yellow.
we still have a ptb comming up, so time will eventually tell if this is true or not.Well now nobody will play the Clown at all. The purple bottles might as well not exist. The hindered effect lasts for about one second. Old Freddy's traps were more effective.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959108#Comment_3959108
If I'm doing a 3 gen, I'm not looking for a war of attrition lasting 15 minutes. I'm looking to force survivors into a reduce area limiting their options.
But they'll just pre-run. If you commit to a chase, they'll pop one of the other gens.
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@Mr_K said:
The first chase could set the tone for the match but it's not the only factor in which direction the match will take. Even the best survivors can get caught off guard for an easy hook. Doesn't mean the next two will be just as easy.
Because 3 gens pop, doesn't mean a strong 3 gen is impossible.
You can't hold a 3 gen for long, though. The 8 regression events start adding up quickly. Your only hope is to snowball, really.
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BHVR really hates Spirit, don't they? Got nerfed the hardest out of all of the old S tiers, Quiet Mode, and now Fog Vials. Fun.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Well, to be fair, the “go next” prevention system has been a total dumpster fire, so it’s not surprising that the anti-cheat is also a total dumpster fire.
The go-next prevention was literally just a timer. "If survivor dies before x amount of time has passed, then they must have done it intentionally."
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958376#Comment_3958376
No, I am strictly saying there should be a 30 second window where the killer is required to at least move to the survivors. No "grace period", maps should be both big enough and survivors should be spawning far enough away that it takes a killer 30 seconds to reach a survivor. Especially with how often Corrupt is used this should not be a problem whatsoever. If it takes killers longer to reach survivors you also have significantly less games where it just ends in 5 minutes because nothing could be done about bad spawns (which this game has a lot of), coupled with Lethal being incredibly popular already giving a large amount of killers instant knowledge that they get an easy down immediately. You don't see other PVP games spawning people directly next to each other ever, and its a direct flaw of DBD that its even possible, especially with the volatility of new killers, Dracula is an awful killer to spawn near (made worse by all survivors spawning together), because of his ability to hit and down multiple people instantly, or insanely snowbally killers that are getting extreme power increases by this. Have a Legion spawn within a certain distance of you and they are guaranteed a down because of how close everyone is together.
I do think an innate basekit corrupt of like 30 seconds would benefit the game. Just not for my example. The survivor gameplay being hindered by something like that because of how 1 dimensional it is would just be a net loss overall, even if changes were made to balance it. But that's an entirely different story.Lol. Just say you want the first two gens for free and get it over with.
And, no, maps shouldn't be that big. They made maps smaller for a reason.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958419#Comment_3958419
Always found it pretty cringe
It's the same as those Noob3 clones whose entire content is just bullying baby killers and editing the video like an MLG montage, it's just not as obnoxious.And you can tell that it's baby killers. They often don't know how to chase basic tiles.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958411#Comment_3958411
A lot of Killers are quite simple mechanically as well, so I don't think there's some massive gulf.
As usual, the difference really is just knowledge. As a Survivor, you need to have knowledge of all Killers and we have, what, 35 or so now? That's a HUGE amount of knowledge to need to learn and you really have no control over when or how you learn it.
As a Killer, you can choose to play as many or as few Killers as you like. Every Survivor is the same and has the same basic abilities. Learning perks will definitely be a pain, but that's also true of Survivor.
However, most killer powers are countered in the same ways. You counter Huntress hatchets in a very similar way to Deathslinger. Also, most killers in the game are weak to shift+w, which is arguably the EASIEST survivor strategy. You're not learning 35 different counterplays. You're learning around three or four. And, again, most of it is easily reproduced and mechanically simple. For instance, once you know to crouch behind a low wall vs Nemesis, you can easily do it over and over again.
Not only that, but shift+w and pre-running allows even below average survivors to have reasonably long chases. (I should know, it's what I do.)
I guess what I'm saying is that there really isn't THAT much to learn. Watching a few videos when a new killer comes out is usually enough to know how to counter that killer, and applying that knowledge is usually relatively simple.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958105#Comment_3958105
Invictus was on a 202 game winning streak. One of the best survivor teams in the world. The post is a good example of having a conclusion and working backwards from it.
Where there things Invictus could have done differently? Absolutely, but the killer makes quite a few mistakes as well (and also doesn't have an overpowered build on). It was not like they lost because of one single error or the killer playing an absolutely perfect game, they lost because they got outplayed even though it was a Legion spreading pressure, the type of thing people insist is impossible to win with.
If you watched otz survivor chalange with hens and another good survivor players when they have to get rank one snd each survivor that died coudnt be used every time they saw legion it was almost free escape ( if I remeber corretly thry have like one/two perks each and only thing that helped them was swf team work)The Hardcore Survivor challenge, done with Otz, Hens, Ayrun, and JRM, is not a great comparison because they start fresh accounts, meaning they are at new player MMR. They also can use any number of perks they want, but being they are on new accounts they have to unlock them and they can't use a perk after a survivor has died and they aren't allowed to stack bloodpoints to spend on other survivors (and the challenge went poorly for them this year).
Edit: Now that I think of it they do have perk restrictions early in the challenge, but they aren't really relevant and have little impact compared to the starting characters fresh with no BP.
Otz's Hardcore Survivor challenge is one of the most disgusting things in the DBD content creator sphere. A group of players that literally play for a living create smurf accounts to bully a bunch of baby killers, then upload it as "content" for all the world to see. It's the single reason why I refuse to watch any of their content.
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@SigmaLord said:
Define tunneling
Tunneling is whatever the survivor in question needs it to be whenever they lose.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958390#Comment_3958390
Being under more pressure doesn't mean the role is more difficult, just less accessible, which is a whole different issue, though still one worth discussing, I feel.
Back to the topic at hand, objectively, Killer is easier than Survivor. The game is, currently, designed to favor the Killer. We've seen Killers go on 2000+ win streaks, even Killers like Clown have gone on 400+ game win streaks. These "low-tier" Killers you've suggested? They function just fine for most players, with some specialists pushing them far beyond what people thought possible.
Whether or not this is a problem is a debate, but it seems to be a different one than what you're having.
I disagree.
I think that survivor is easier mechanically. At the end of the day, it's simple third person movement with an occasional button press. You could argue that there are a handful of loops in the game that are difficult to get a fast vault at, but besides that, the act of looping a tile is ridiculously simplistic.
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I guess I don't care about the charms or bloody clothes for survivors I don't main
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@Mr_K said:
Wish they just release new global perks instead of 18 more prestige levels I have to do.
Why 18?
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957111#Comment_3957111
Your region may be different then others, keep it in mind.
You're always defending the killer side. Stop it, survivior problems are important.
Excuse me? Who are you to tell me what I can and can't defend?
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Stats are broken at the moment. Disconnects and abandons count as escapes. Also, I think "Last 30 Days" is more telling than "All Time."
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957021#Comment_3957021
If you're doing a full gen the two are basically a wash. You'll save an extra .34 seconds assuming you're running double charge addone on both.
@topic the Mechanics toolbox is hot garbage imo. I'd never bring it personally.
.34 seconds is .34 seconds lol
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957105#Comment_3957105
where it's not one sided, none of this 4 gen regression stopping survivors from playing the game fairly, or tunneling. I feel like there is probably full gen rush builds but IDK what they are coz I dont run them? maybe, with the spawn changes etc it's not so much an issue? Maybe? idk.
I just want it to be more fun for both sides, idk killer queue times are longer for a reason atm and I can barely queue for them.Killer queues are longer because we just got a killer only chapter that brought in tens of thousands of players. Those queues are already starting to even out. I've had killer queue bonus every evening this week from 9pm on, and the longest queue I've seen in the last couple of days was three minutes or so.
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@Anti051 said:
The gen speed isn't as much of a problem as map safety. It's because of the amount of interconnecting safety that 3 gens will be done by the end of the first chase.
I've noticed this. I feel like there's a pallet or window every five feet.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957092#Comment_3957092
No I don't, it's a strong perk but it's not exactly that common I'm sure official stats confirm this.
No pain res is still S tier among others, what are you on about, idk it's not perks I'm on about its not like items are s-tier, huh?
I just want more fun interaction, play more survivor pleaseWhat is a "fun interaction?" Be specific.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957014#Comment_3957014
While I agree, you can read some of the stuff being said here currently. All that matters is the win, they don't care if it was easy or not, or if they had to learn to actually reach that point. They just want the win. Exclusively because "winning is fun". On top of that DBD is inherently a poor competitive game, it suffers the exact same problems that fighting games do but with less feedback. With enough skill you can beat stronger characters in fighting games, that's not always the case in DBD because of the increase in players. Its more akin to bad matchups in league of legends, where in some of them you just never have a chance, but not because of skill, because you just brought the wrong thing to the game.
You're missing the point.
The competition is the fun part. Testing yourself against an opponent is the fun part. Using macro strategy, scoring hits off of mind games, or hitting with your power is the fun part. Winning is the icing on the cake. Sure, the cake is okay by itself, but it tastes REALLY good when it has the icing. Losing normally wouldn't be so bad, but survivors can and do take every opportunity to rub it in your face that you lost. So not only did you not get icing on your cake, but someone hocked a big ol' loogy on it.
Running around "goofing off" with survivors isn't fun, from the killer perspective. What, realistically, are you going to do? Point at each other? Pretend to do a gen? It's funny for about 30 seconds, then it's really freaking boring. And you make zero BP.
"…not because of skill, but because you just brought the wrong thing to the game."
You're so close, so close to getting it. Unless you're using an S tier killer, not using "unsportsmanlike" strategies is "bringing the wrong thing to the game" when you're playing against survivors that are efficient on gens. You just don't have the time to 12 hook the whole squad. You have to get someone out by hook 5 at the absolute latest, or you're going to get crushed. And that's if you're getting fast downs and have some map mobility.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Timber is cooking in this thread. Yes, survivors BMing no matter how the killer played is common in 90%+ of matches. Even when the survivors have objectively lost, that last remaining survivor will bag you out the gate or wait until you walk over to him so he can hop out the hatch.
Bottom line is survivors can play as toxic (bully squads deliberately only playing to frustrate the killer and get him to DC), BMing in general or as boring as possible (split and slam gens, comp drop the map, make non stop call outs on comms, stack all meta) and it's totally acceptable. There's no outward community pressure for them to stop that. It's like how survivors can BM the killer non stop and killers get told to get thick skin even though people experience real negative emotions caused by bullying. But if a killer does it, BHVR introduces in game mechanics to make sure the survivors can't get a taste of their own medicine.
I think the point is that there's a double standard in the community. The killer player is expected to take everyone else's feelings and fun into account, while survivors can use every trick and BM in the book and not catch any flak. The killer has a long list of things that they're not allowed to do because it's "unsportsmanlike," while survivors can do whatever they want.
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Asking the obvious question here… were you cheating?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957080#Comment_3957080
nah we lost dead hard, that's enough its just ghoul who is zzzzzzzz anti thesis to this game
anyways who are you you dont soun like you play both sidesDead Hard is still a meta perk, ######### are you talking about? You still see it almost every game.
If you nerfed every strong killer into B or C tier, then you'll kill the game. End of story. Nobody likes getting tbagged in the gates. And B tier killers can't reasonably go against good survivors running meta perks.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957028#Comment_3957028
No they need destroyed, such boring gameplay. It's not fair and they need to come down and low tier killers come up.
boring utter bad gameplay design that makes me hate this gameThen we'll have to nerf pretty much every meta survivor perk into the ground.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957053#Comment_3957053
It gets used in lots of different ways
Anything but 12 hooking is tunneling
Going after the survivor right off the hook
Going after the survivor right off the hook, unless that survivor body blocks
Hyper focusing on the first survivor found until they are 3 hooked and eliminated, ignoring all others
Trying to find the weakest survivor and then focusing on them until they are eliminated
It even gets used for targeting players for specific reasons - anything from a player who was a really good looper and now the killer wants to eliminate them more than win the game, to targeting specific characters and/or charms due to personal dislike.
All of them focus around the general idea of the killer targeting a specific survivor, though how extreme the standard is, and whether there are any other circumstances that might change it, are also important to consider when discussing such a broad topic.
Soooo… tunneling is a meaningless word that can mean whatever the survivor in question wants it to mean.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956959#Comment_3956959
Tunneling: Going after the most recently hooked survivor despite there being another equally viable target without attempting to chase another.
See how easy it is to define a version of tunneling?
"a version" of tunneling?
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@scoser said:
MMR has always been terrible since the playerbase told the devs in a survey to concentrate on lowering queue times over actually matching for skill. Blame yourselves for this situation.
Because content creators told them that tight MMR was a bad thing. Content creators like loose MMR because they not only get very quick matches, they're unlikely to play against people at their skill level. These people literally play DBD for a living. They should be getting nonstop swfs and top tier Nurses and Blights. But you can't make "5 gen loop!" or "EZ TOP MMR 4K!!!" off of matches against someone at your level.
You also can't make, "Here's a BROKEN Demogorgon build with no slowdown whatsoever!" videos. And I've long suspected that Fog Whisperers have a "curated" MMR. Why do people like Otz and Scott Jund never go against comp teams?
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MMR is a myth because matchmaking is ridiculously loose. The matchmaking system values speed over accuracy, so if you're in queue for any length of time, you're probably playing against someone you shouldn't. If that's not bad enough, the matchmaking system literally just grabs the NEXT AVAILABLE PERSON to fill any empty spots in a lobby. So if someone lobby dodges for some reason, the person that fills that slot will almost certainly be the wrong MMR for that lobby.
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The best toolbox in the game is the Engineer's Toolbox with max charge addons. It gets the most charges into the generator the quickest.
Engineer's with max charge addons: 100% repair speed with 36 charges
Commodius with max speed addons: 100% repair speed with 32 charges.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956413#Comment_3956413
It’s considered poor sportsmanship to run up the score against an opponent in most sports when you’re already clearly the winner. Rushing towards a 4K at 4-5 gens is the same thing and something I see a lot of in solo queue matches.
When I play survivor, I care far more about being able to accomplish anything in the match - popping a gen, cleansing a totem, successfully having a chase last longer than a few moments, or being able to engage with event items than I do ‘winning’ when it comes to whether I find the match frustrating or not.
Killers in aggregate, not knowing when to stop punching down likely contributes to why there’s almost always a blood point bribe for people to play survivor and comparatively longer queues for killers. Whenever I see the 2.5x value I know it’s a choice between either a long wait to play killer or an extra miserable survivor match
You're using the wrong comparison. Securing a win isn't "running up the score." It's not "running up the score" to score 35 points in the first quarter of a football game. The only time in sports when it's considered "unsportsmanlike" to keep trying your best is when the result of the game is beyond question. For instance, if you're up by 40 points in the 4th Quarter.
However, tunneling a survivor isn't "running up the score." It's securing the win. It's scoring the original 40 points, not tacking on extra ones.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956453#Comment_3956453
This mindset is the very reason many new players find Killer stressful and why many older Killers rage when they can't secure a 3 - 4K. Winning alone is not a good reason to tryhard. In a game like DBD, where the balance is so off that one side has a much, much easier time than the other, focusing solely on winning is never going to result in a good time every time.
You can play to win, and I hope you do, but if winning is the only thing on your mind, you're not truly having fun. Losing can be just as fun as winning if your head is in the right place. You don't need to run around letting Survivors boop you, but you also don't need to stress getting kills. There is nothing wrong with goofing off during the match. When I tell you to go with the flow, that is what I'm trying to teach you. The Killer's one goal is to kill Survivors, this is true. However, working towards a goal is never the only way to have fun in a match. You can goof off, you can completely dominate a match, you can run builds that serve a funny purpose (like jumpscaring the Survivors), you can befriend the Survivors, you can try Killers you're not good with, you can do so many things beyond just trying to force a 4K, things I definitely haven't even listed. Party games do have a winner and loser, but that's the result, not the point.
Yes, the gameplay loop, especially for Survivors, is incredibly stale, and that's on the developers. But, as it's not going to get better for that side, the best you can do is enjoy each match as they are. Yes, you will lose sometimes, but the easiest way to ensure that loss doesn't feel bad is to not take the game seriously in the first place. The Killer role doesn't have the same oppressive atmosphere that Survivors have - you are the one who decides the flow of the match. If you go in with competitive mindset, it's going to feel bad. But if you go in simply not caring if you win or lose, and simply go with the flow of the match, even losing won't feel like a loss.
And no, PVPs are not inherently competitive. Competitive games are always fair match-ups, where neither side can dominate without having actual skill. Dead By Daylight is not designed that way - it's designed so that the Killer will have the easier time overall. It's a 1v4, that's not a competition, that's nothing more than a party game.
Finally, the learning curve for both sides is completely different. Killers have a low ceiling (depending on the Killer, anyway), while Survivors have a high ceiling. A competitive game is where the ceiling is the same height for everyone.
If that's how you have fun, then great for you. However, a lot of people like to compete. Who are you to tell them that they're "playing wrong" because they don't just… let the survivors win? And the balance of this game isn't "so, so bad." Afaik, global kill rates are at about 60% for pretty much every killer.
I don't find "befriending the survivors" or "goofing off" very fun. A lot of people feel the same way. What that ends up looking like is standing around for several minutes while the survivors finish gens. It's very boring. There's only so many interactions you can have with a survivor. Maybe if there were more things to DO while "goofing off" or "befriending the survivors," but there's not. You dink around for a couple minutes nodding, then they do the gens, then you get about 10k BP. So much fun.
I'm sorry, but you find this game difficult for either side? The skill ceiling for DBD is depressingly low. Let's go over the roles:
Killer:
- Basic FPS movement and camera controls.
- No need for pinpoint accuracy. Headshots do the same as any other hit.
- Few, if any, demanding reactions or hand-eye coordination requirements.
- Very few mechanically difficult powers to master. Mainly Blight and Oni flicks. A case could be made for Xeno and Nemi drags, but they're still not really difficult.
- There are 30 maps to learn, but most of the individual tiles are recycled between maps.Survivor:
- Basic Third Person Movement and camera controls.
- No need for accuracy. Even flashlights (the only thing a survivor has to aim) are very forgiving.
- Few demanding reactions. Dead Hard is pretty much the only exception, and even that has a full half second leeway.
- No mechanically difficult things to master. Skill checks are easy. Looping is mechanically easy. It's literally just running around in circles using basic third person movement.
- There are 30 maps to learn, but most of the individual tiles are recycled between maps.
- 40 killers to counter, but most are countered in similar ways. For instance, some killers, you leave the tile, others you loop the tile. You really only have to learn a handful of ways to play. All projectiles are extremely telegraphed and relatively easy to dodge for anyone who's ever played action video games before. Killers generally only have one power, so you only have to learn to counter 40 different things. Compare this to, say, a fighting game, where you have to learn every character's moveset, frame data, gaps and punish windows, and the difference is staggering.People like to pretend like this game is some super difficult game, but it's not. You have knowledge checks, but that's true of any video game. Literally anyone who cares to get decent at the game can do so. There are no "hand eye coordination" or "reaction speed" barriers to getting good.
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@I_CAME said:
It's a combination of a lack of survivors and Behavior's refusal to give this game a real matchmaking system. It doesn't help that they seem to take a lot of advice from content creators. In my experience these are the people most likely to lobby AGAINST stricter matchmaking. I have listened to some of the biggest content creators passionately defend the awful system that we have now. Of course there are some people like OhTofu who think the matchmaking should be more strict but I feel like he is in the minority among this group.
The content creators love easy matchmaking because it gives them a bunch of easy content. Do you honestly think Otz could do half of his challenges against competent survivors?
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@Columbus1492 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956337#Comment_3956337
Exactly why it's stupid. They also block vision for survivors on killer when hooking.
That's the point. It's supposed to block you from seeing where exactly the killer is heading next.
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They now have an increased chance to go to the realm, but it's not guaranteed.