TimberGoingDown
TimberGoingDown
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956441#Comment_3956441
Vibe with match means what sounds like - go with the match flow. Obviously if the Survivors are being sweaty or BMing, it feels bad, but by that same token, Killers performing toxic strategies also feels bad. You can't stop toxic players from being toxic, but what you can do is not let it get to you.
And no, this isn't a competitive game. There's a distinct difference between a competitive game and a PVP. A non-competitive PVP is one where winning, overall, doesn't actually matter. Yes, your goal is to win, and yes you should aim to get that win, but at the end of the day, the game is about having fun. That's what DBD is. A competitive game is one where there's an actual reason to win, and has a competitive mode, where your goal is to win to increase your rank for some kind of reward. DBD doesn't have a competitive mode, and the only reward for winning the match are Bloodpoints, which aren't that hard to get even in defeat.
You can play to win without being a tryhard. Let the atmosphere of the match determine your actions and mindset, not your want for a win. If the match is a standard match, where everyone is trying to win, then play it normally. If the match is more chill, be chill. If the Survivors are being sweaty, then you can be sweaty to. Regardless, don't go into the match with a competitive mindset.
And yes, you're right. No one likes to lose, but a loss only truly hurts if you take the game too seriously. With a competitive mindset, even wins feel empty because you didn't actually have fun.
"No reason to win."
Winning is the reason to win. Winning feels good. Losing feels bad. Therefore, I like to win. I don't need a competitive mode or imaginary internet points to tell me that winning feels good and losing feels bad.
And competing IS the fun part. Testing your mettle against your opponents IS the fun part. What else is "fun" in DBD? Honestly. Running in circles? Pressing the same button for 90 seconds straight? Let me guess, crouching in front of the killer and booping the snoot? Is that the "fun part" in your eyes?
From my perspective, the fun part is doing your best to secure the victory against another team that is doing the same. That's the basis of every PvP game, and why they are, by definition, competitive. Anything that has a winner and a loser will ALWAYS be competitive, regardless of imaginary internet rankings or points.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956432#Comment_3956432
And that is the difference, right there. You completely discount pre-selection.
Comms are nice, sure. Powerful in the right hands, to be certain. Let me pose a question. If having comms is so powerful, why is SWF not escaping more? Either having comms is not as powerful as you say, or the people who use them effectively don't contribute enough to the escape rates.
As to your example, this is true. It's also only really a factor in 4-man SWFs.
I think you overestimate comms and underestimate pre-determined teammates. Realistically, whether for competitive purposes or fun purposes, that is what draws SWFs together, the ability to play with pre-selected teammates (friends).
Honestly? I have no real evidence to back it up, and no real reason to think this besides a gut feeling and circumstantial logic. I suspect that BHVR doesn't always give us accurate statistics.
First of all, it would be in their best interests to not give us accurate statistics. Stats are used by the community in pretty much every debate on every social media outlet. If something like SWFs DID have a huge statistical advantage… would they admit it? It's well known that survivors spend more money on cosmetics and stuff than killers. Nerfing swfs may damage BHVR's bottom line.
Secondly, something really stood out to me the other day when BHVR announced that the anti-go next had zero impact on kill rates. That makes no sense. Do you mean to tell me that getting rid of the survivor's ability to throw the game because they don't like Legion had zero effect on kill rates? It would have been one thing if they had said, "it has had a small, but not concerning" effect on kill rates. But Mandy came out and said, "none." I don't know about you, but I can't tell you the number of games, prior to go-next prevention, that a quick down early in the game turned into someone killing themselves on hook and throwing the match. It was pretty consistent. Not every game, but at least one out of four or five. Getting rid of that has had ZERO effect on kill rates? That doesn't add up. Especially since it flies in the face of my own personal experience, the collective experience of the community, and community gathered statistics.
I guess the real test for my theory will be how BHVR reports the kill rate statistics after they add anti-tunnel/camp/slug. Will they admit that kill rates are free-falling, or will they come out and say, "everything is fine."
Because I think that you and I can both agree that a LOT of killers use tunneling as a crutch to clutch out a LOT of their matches.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956335#Comment_3956335
That's fair. I get very little bm though, and I wonder why the experience is different. I did a misplay a couple days ago that got me a 0k, and none of the survivors tried to teabag while they got their teammate out at the gate. And I very rarely see teabagging during the game or at the gates in general. I'll occasionally see one survivor in a group teabag after a pallet drop, but that usually doesn't even persist for the rest of a single chase.
My experience is completely different. I've tested it with multiple killers, I've tested it following the "survivor rulebook" with a perkless Demo (one of the most popular killers with survivors.) It's the vast, vast majority of losses that see at least a little bagging in the gates by at least one survivor.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956393#Comment_3956393
No one is saying to let the Survivors win all the time, but focusing on getting 4Ks the whole time is why the game doesn't feel good for anyone. Killers who are tryharding feel the game sucks when they don't get a 4K while, while the tryharding Killer makes the game unfun for the Survivors due to how little the Survivors can actually counter the majority of the Killer roster.
At the end of the day, Dead By Daylight is not designed to be a competitive game - it's a PVP, yes, but it's a party game. It's why there's no competitive mode. You're meant to have fun. When you forget to have fun in your matches, and focus solely on winning, then you're going to be miserable. Winning is not, and never will be everything. Stop stressing for the 4K and just let it happen naturally. With how bad the balance is, unless the Survivors are actively tryharding, then it's going to happen regardless.
Just vibe with the match, stop worrying about winning. That's how you have fun, not stressing yourself out just because you only got 3 kills or because you're being outplayed.
First of all, I don't "focus on getting 4k's." I play to win. 3k is a win. If some survivor gets the pity hatch escape, that's no skin off my back. I already won.
I also feel like you're vastly misrepresenting killers to the point of parody.
Please. Dead by Daylight is a competitive game. We can argue on its merits and balance, but denying that it's a competitive game is dishonest. You have a game two opposing sides with conflicting goals and victory conditions. By definition, that's competitive. Nobody enjoys losing. Nobody. Everybody likes to win. Some take wins and losses more seriously than others, but at the end of the day, people enjoy winning.
"Vibe with the match." I don't even know where to begin with this. What does this even mean? Could you give an example? "Oh, yeah. The generators went in about 4 minutes and now the survivors are all rubbing the loss in my face in the exit gates. I got like two chases in and made about 10k bloodpoints. Totally rad, duuuude!"
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@bleep275 said:
Remember the point in my original point about killers scoring higher on sadism and machiavellianism? Thanks for proving it right. Pretty much to the T my post.
Please explain, in detail, how anything I posted was "sadistic." I'll wait. I can't believe that "playing to win at a video game" is somehow a "lack of empathy" and "indifference to morality." You people are absolutely wild.
EDIT: By the way, my definition of "sportsmanship" was pulled straight from the dictionary. Yours was pulled out of your butt.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956402#Comment_3956402
John psycho-analysist over here lol
If you look at what I said in my reply which was, "And I'm saying that if hit tanking is the sort of metrics…". I am trying to tell you to take a step back and breathe. You don't know who is in a SWF because BHVR doesn't want you to know. Every metric you could use to determine if they are a SWF can occur "naturally", you admit as much. You just want them to be a SWF because it fits your ideas better.
If you can believe it, I was once in the exact same spot. Trying to discern who was a SWF and who wasn't, who I could expect to employ cheating tactics (my words, not yours) and who was playing the game as it was meant to be played.
Ultimately, it got to a point where I was checking profiles and friend's lists prior to the match to determine who was playing together and who was okay. I had come to blame all of my losses on SWF players and how they broke the rules of the game.
What I came to realize, eventually, is that it didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It mattered to me, of course, but it wouldn't really change anything in the match I was about to play. Perhaps that knowledge gave me an advantage, but it also stressed me out, made me play extremely tightly and it just wasn't fun.
Everything a SWF can do; a Solo Team can also do. The true strength of SWF isn't even communication, it's pre-selection. Being able to pre-screen and pre-vet your teammates removes the randomness of Solo Q. All this does is make it so that good SWF's are more common than good Solo Q teams, which are few and far between.
Thirty percent is probably too high of a number, I'd say more than likely other factors play into that, at that percentage point. I'd say good SWF teams make up, perhaps, ten percent of the total population of SWF's and even then, that fluctuates based on builds and attitudes. Ideally, we'd like good SWF's to go against equally good Killer players, who have the same mindset as them, but MMR is nothing if not worthless and it's impossible to gauge attitudes.
I'm not psycho-analyzing. I didn't postulate on why you strawman, only pointed out that you do.
Possible doesn't mean probable or even plausible. That's the point that you keep missing.
And, no, one of the most powerful things SWFs do is warn each other where the killer is and where they are going. Communicating their own locations and the killer's location is absolutely powerful. Pretending like it's not is dishonest. A heads up that "killer is heading to you, Jim," is the difference between a surprise hit and 5 seconds of pre-running. Sure, technically, a survivor can pre-run at anytime. They may even do so at the perfect time by happenstance. However, a swf can work the gen even within the TR and get a heads up the moment the killer starts to break chase and will start pre-running at the perfect time every time.
That's only one example, but I'm sure you can extrapolate from there. Comms are very, very powerful tools. They're not quite as powerful as permanent aura reading, but they're pretty close.
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@PatchNoir said:
Update: after doing some trials on bots the perk really isnt showing the yellow hook stage until you hook the shoulder the burden user, in the past once you had used the perk you would scream and automatically show the golden counter, but RN it only shows after the user get hooked.
If its not intended or in the patchnotes, just kill switch the perk until a fix comes out, it does not need explanation on why its a bad idea to leave it be while its broken
Video RN:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4-7qFZSwLs&pp=ygUTc2hvdWxkZXIgdGhlIGJ1cmRlbg%3D%3D
Video of it working as intended: https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxxC3MhHtTkXDhWUSaeF16RQV5wHKBNGlz
Off topic, but how do you play with those filters? It's actively worse than the base game lol.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956393#Comment_3956393
Found the ego gamer
you don’t have to let them win to have fun though. And you can win but play in a manner that is fun for you and the others. We learned this skill in like….toddler years. Ya know…sportsmanship…”winning isn’t everything”….casual gameplay for the sake of playing not for dominating.
If you’re ego is so fragile that a primary source of validation is your performance in a video game…that’s an issue.
Oh, wow. You took the completely wrong lesson from those toddler years and little league games.
Sportsmanship isn't "playing in a manner that makes sure that everyone has a good time." Sportsmanship is "an understanding of and commitment to fair play, ethical behavior and integrity, and general goodwill toward an opponent." It means not cheating, not breaking the rules, and not being a jerk about the end result. I can have goodwill towards an opponent while actively trying to crush them in-game. Sportsmanship is about fair play, respect and grace in both victory and defeat. The competition, in and of itself, is supposed to be the "good time." If you can't have fun while competing, maybe competitive multiplayer games aren't for you.
The point of sayings like, "Winning isn't everything," is to teach kids that it's better to play fair and lose than to cheat and win.
What's ironic is that I see far more survivors utilizing poor sportsmanship than killers. It's quite common for survivors to gloat when they win and spout the most vitriolic stuff in the end game chat when they lose. Especially if they lose because the killer didn't follow some imaginary rule that they made up in their head.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956392#Comment_3956392
And I'm saying that if hit tanking is the sort of metrics we're going off of, that casts some doubt upon your claims, which were dubious to begin with.
My point is, you don't know. Not sure it really makes a difference though ultimately, if you feel frustrated and maybe fatigued by having these experiences; then maybe it's time for a break?
Did I say, "if a single person takes a hit for someone, I assume it's a 4 man god swf!" Or did I say, "If I have a group of survivors that are consistently taking hits for each other, I'm going to assume they're in a group. That may not be 100% always correct, but it's a pretty safe assumption." That's right, I said the second one.
This is a common trend with you, I've noticed. You consistently strawman other people's arguments, bring up the 1% exceptions as if they're statistically relevant, then say condescending things like, "maybe it's time for you to take a break." You're unwilling to look past your own preconceived notions to the point that you either don't read the posts that you respond to or you just blatantly and intentionally misrepresent them in order to make them easier to argue against. Either way, continuing this is pointless because it's impossible to have a discussion with someone who lacks intellectual honesty.
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@bleep275 said:
honestly. It’s the psychology of the different roles and the emphasis the individual player puts on winning.
Survivor: based on altruism and team mentality for the most part. You got social loafing and diffusion of responsibility, meaning responsibility is hated between 4 people. Survivor is about cohesion which creates bonding so people tend to joke more and goof off. Other people tend to buffer emotions. There is also partial success meaning they don’t need to escape to win or feel empowered (most survivors don’t care about escape just about having fun).
Tltr: survivors can take less responsibility and are more prone to taking the game less seriously. It is social and playful
killer: unlike survivor they barely the full responsibility for their failure, something ego does not like. The isolators “power-role” of killer also appeals to people who like feeling in control. This can lead to control-based aggression and hyper-focus. Think “I am the killer why are these survivors bullying ME!!!”. Also due to the power fantasy of being a killer when that happens it triggers even more frustration. They’re supposed to be in control but aren’t and the ego does not like that. Also people who tend to score higher in sadism, and machiavellianism in general.Killers would find less stress if they treated it as less of a “they’re my enemy and must be destroyed” and more of a “they’re my fellow players, let’s all have fun.” I got 4k (about) and have been a pretty dedicated killer main. The game became 1000 times more fun when i approached it less about winning and more about enjoyment. I like meme and jumpscare builds, they’re funny for everyone.
Tltr: isolation, performance pressure, ego based gameplay
"Hello, fellow killers. I'm here to tell you that the game is much more fun if you just let the survivors win all the time. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk."
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956384#Comment_3956384
I mean, it's rare and remembered because we became friends, not because that was the only incident lol
I'm not saying it's the only incident. I'm saying that it's extremely rare. You know what, nevermind. This conversation is pointless.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956383#Comment_3956383
The post's still aimed at new/beginner players anyway.
But also, slowing down generators is necessary no matter where you are, and this is still the most stable way of doing it. I didn't bring up tunnelling in this post largely because I don't think new players should do it, and that'd overcomplicate an already long post.
No, the most stable, consistent way of slowing down generators is turning it into a 3v1. Just saying.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956376#Comment_3956376
I have, it's actually how I met one of my friends! I was…not happy since he sandbagged me at a pallet. He did fly in to try to take the hit at 5 gens but just ended up getting my killed at Shack with a Bubba…in like 2018.
But apparently it's rare enough to be remembered and remarked upon. That's my point. If I have a group of survivors that are consistently taking hits for each other, I'm going to assume they're in a group. That may not be 100% always correct, but it's a pretty safe assumption.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956369#Comment_3956369
This post is aimed at newer players, hence "beginner's guide", and they have the luxury of sucking equally across the entire cast.
Though, for the record, these concepts don't change based on who you play, they just get harder the weaker the killer is. The basics are the basics anywhere on the tier list and anywhere on the skill curve, it's just how much effort it takes and how much extra you put on top that changes.
The problem is that you can't get downs fast enough with over half of the cast to just rely on pressure. Once you're out of the "new player" mmr bracket, you can't just rely on chasing survivors into a 12 hook 4k. You need to pick your targets, pick your chases, and defend key generators. Sometimes, you need to remove someone from the game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Wholeheartedly agree.
Couple things I can add:
the better you are in chase, the quicker you can create pressure
This is the one area I think the devs have "gotten it", even though there's a lot of work to be done in the name of balance. All of these map reworks, weaker pallets, reworked tile spawn logic, etc all goes toward reducing chase times.
While I don't think that maps are perfect, far from it, and I still disagree with the target goal overall, I think that focusing on chases is way, way healthier for the game.
Because the alternative is related to my other thought:
A killer player that not only plays very actively, but does so by creating scenarios that force a response, will notice the effects of pressuring survivors
The "pressuring survivors" part is where I feel like many get this wrong, because an unfortunately large number of people want the game to be entirely about gens again. A lot of killers can only think in terms of "pressuring gens", and gens are not the killers objective.
There are a ton of people who, even years later, still want the game to be pve gen kick simulator, where there is effectively no skill expression to be had for anyone. (Which, for some, is the entire point)
Gens are a resource for the killer, and expendable. Just like health states or even hook states are a resource for survivors. And while you might be able to finish a game without expending any of those resources, you're likely going to give up one or more of them to win the overall match.
The pressuring gens part makes sense, though. Because not all gens are created equally. Generators close together should be protected more than a gen off in the boonies.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956368#Comment_3956368
Three hook offerings is a fair assessment, I think.
Taking hits to delay the first down as much as humanely possible is pretty standard operating procedure for high-skilled players. I would say it's plausible to use that as an indicator, but I would say it's more accurate in more average skill brackets. Normal players won't do that.
Some SWF's and Solo Q play differently. Clearly, not enough to affect the KR's significantly, but there are more competitive SWF's, just as there are more competitive Solo's.
I have never, not once, in my time playing DBD, had a random survivor come flying in out of nowhere to take a hit for me unless I was on death hook getting tunneled.
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So… only play A tier or better killers. They're the only ones with the mobility and down speed to facilitate this kind of pressure consistently against good survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956342#Comment_3956342
Now that you mention it, I did do a perkless Legion winstreak back in the day…
How are you able to accurately discern who is in a SWF and how many of them are in it? Do you have some kind of software? Or is this just another one of those, "I feel like there in a SWF because of X" kind of things?
Because let me tell you, if what you are saying is true and those players are genuinely of a high caliber, then it becomes harder to use those forms of discernment.
Easy example? In most brackets of play. SWF's usually have good hook rotations. They've got someone on a gen, someone distracting the Killer and someone going for save. Consistent rotation is a pretty good way to determine if players are together or not. However, really good players will just kind of do that, no comms required.
I would say, following your clarification, that I would lean more towards their line of thinking. It takes a very good SWF to genuinely break the game, barring skill issues of course, which are a lot of times really matchmaking issues, so it's hardly the poor person's fault who got matched against a 15K hour god squad.
Complimentary builds or actions that almost require communication. If I'm getting 3 hook offerings and sabo toolboxes, I'm assuming it's a squad. Or there's the old, "Ace just flew out of nowhere at the perfect place at the perfect time to tank a hit during the second chase of the game." Solo Queue doesn't do that. They sometimes try to do it for someone on death hook, but not for someone on a fresh chase.
SWFs and Solo Queue play differently. Pretending otherwise is dishonest.
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Afaik, the yellow hook indicator doesn't show until you hook the person that used the perk.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956336#Comment_3956336
Bad news then. Unless they've massively tightened matchmaking, which I doubt, you don't play against the top 1% in 30% of your games.
It took me multiple days and/or WEEKS to find decent games against quality opponents. Just because you think they are the top .001% doesn't mean they are.
Yes, Pulsar. We get it. You're a god-tier killer with 8 billion hours that can go on a 2000+ 4k winstreak with a perkless Skull Merchant with both hands tied behind your back while blindfolded. The game is very, very easy for a killer of your caliber and the rest of us lowly peasants just need to get on your level.
Also… you should read what I wrote again. I said that they're NOT the top 1%. I said that 20-30% of my games are against good players, usually in 3-4 man groups. I was disputing what the other person said when they said, "So because the top 1% of the top 1% are gods among men the rest of the people playing with their friends are magically in the same bracket and deserve to get the same treatment?" They were implying that only 1% of survivors who play in groups are good. I was saying that it's a lot more than that.
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They're explicitly there to obstruct your vision. That's why they last so long. So that it gives the survivor a chance to actually use the gate.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955830#Comment_3955830
So because the top 1% of the top 1% are gods among men the rest of the people playing with their friends are magically in the same bracket and deserve to get the same treatment?
Lol. Look at this gaslighting. Pretending like it's only the top 1%. It's like 20-30% of my games.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955839#Comment_3955839
Every time a survivor escapes?
I've actually tested this. In over 90% of games that I lose, I get BM'd by at least one survivor.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955836#Comment_3955836
Not really. Dev's will make sure to buff killers that feel left behind.
I feel like if m1's will suffer, they will finally have real reason to buff them.
I think making survivior experience better will push them into making the killer roster more equal.
Maybe. But can you honestly say that they'll do it quickly enough? Or effectively enough? Behavior takes forever to get anything out of the door. It'd take them 3-6 months to "watch and observe," and another 6-12 months to formulate and implement any buffs to killers. By then, killers would have left the game en masse, survivor queues would have jumped to obscene levels in between the sweatiest Nurse/Blight matches imaginable, driving away many survivor players, and the game would essentially be dead.
If you don't believe me, look at Skull Merchant. She's been effectively removed from the game for ten months, and all we have to show for it is a handful of Microsoft Paint concept art. They've barely even started reworking her power, despite nuking a character (and skins) that people paid good money for.
That's the problem with the whole "we'll just buff killers later as needed" mindset. Behavior is too slow. If you make sweeping changes that makes the killer role miserable to play, they'll just leave. Behavior was this close to killing their game prior to 6.1.0, but managed to pull an emergency ace out of their sleeve at the last minute. And survivors STILL to this day whine about 0.3 seconds off of pallet breaks and blade wipe animations.
Honestly, I'm worried that Behavior is going to screw the pooch with Phase 2 of the QoL changes. They need to tread very carefully.
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Knight needs a full rework. He's my most played killer of all time, yet his power is absolutely atrocious. Instead of AI, have his guards do something else. Get rid of the weird guard path drawing system altogether. Instead, give him the following abilities, all on separate, but lengthy cooldowns:
The Knight can point his sword, slowing him down to 3.8 m/s for 2 seconds, at a dropped pallet, breakable wall, or generator he can see within 16m. The Carnifex will appear and damage the targeted item, instantly breaking pallets and breakable walls, or dealing 10% instant regression to a generator. This ability has a 30 second cooldown.
The Knight can plant his sword in the ground for 2.5 seconds. Upon finishing this interaction, the Jailer will spawn directly in front of where the Knight was standing. After another 2.5 seconds, the Jailer will start guarding a 16m circular area for 30 seconds. He can't see through walls. Any survivor that runs or walks through this area will be attacked by the Jailer, dealing one health state of damage. Survivors can crouch through and remain undetected, and can even sneak up and dispel the Jailer, though this will give the Knight a loud noise notification. This ability has a 30 second cooldown from the moment that the Jailer is dispelled, either by time limit or by survivor interaction.
The Knight can point his sword at any generator not within his TR. When he does, the Assassin will appear and damage one survivor working that generator, while also blocking that generator for 10 seconds. If the Survivor is already injured, the survivor is put into deep wounds. He prioritizes healthy survivors, but if all survivors working the gen are equally injured or healthy, he will choose the nearest survivor to the Knight. If no survivors are working the generator, the ability is wasted and goes on cooldown. This ability has a 30 second cooldown.
This gives him a usable chase ability in the Carnifex, a usable Macro ability in the Assassin, and a usable area denial ability in the Jailer. The Jailer will still be good in certain loops, like corner shack, but dropping him in the middle of chase would usually be a waste.
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I like it. It's very different from every other killer.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
Because one side of the game is so unbelievably bad its practically unplayable, any survivors that are actually "winning" aren't even playing the same game. Solo Survivor players are leaving the game in droves because of how awful the experience is while killer queues get longer and longer because nothing has been done to help them whatsoever. The game relies exclusively around kills instead of hooks so one person is always out of the match before 5 minutes passes and barely gets to interact with the game whatsoever.
I play exclusively Solo Q when I play Survivor. These are my Last 30 Days stats:
I'm not that good. I just stick to gens while trying to make the best play I can. Most often, when I lose, I don't lose because of the "Oppressive Tunneling Killer," I lose because Feng went for a flashlight save, missed, and then went down. Or because my teammates will literally give the killer free downs because they're trying to body block or sabo a hook. Or someone farms a hook and then gets both the person they unhooked and themselves downed. Then we get snowballed because multiple people are down right next to the killer.
Most of my games are lost because my teammates are absolute garbage, and that's coming from someone who's not that good. It's really sad when I'm the best survivor on the team. And I somehow STILL have an over 50% escape rate.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Because too many people think the 4k is all that matters. I used to stress out a bit playing Jason in my F13 days. I felt like if I didn't wipe the entire lobby I failed. Once I got past that I found it pretty relaxing and enjoyed going for cool plays. At this point with DbD I just aim for a good match. Not getting my teeth kicked in nor completely steam rolling the survivors.
That's nice in theory. In reality, every time a survivor escapes they go out of their way to be as obnoxious as possible about it.
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If you implement these ideas, survivor queues will jump to about 20 minutes.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954461#Comment_3954461
While it's true changes have been made to help Solo Q, said changes have not made SWF's more broken lol if anything they've been slowly reducing the disparity and it's showing rn that survivor is not in a great place over all on the casual side of things.
Not every SWF is some esports competing for wendy's gift card squadrons.Lol. I hate this argument. "Some swf's play poorly, so the role isn't actually OP."
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955220#Comment_3955220
So the counter is a scourge hook you can't probably won't even be able to realistically apply all of the time. Because scourge hooks aren't guaranteed… cmon man.
Agitation makes it very consistent
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955035#Comment_3955035
I wouldn't go that far, other anti-heal perks do just fine against healing in general, and self-healing via medkit and the like. It's specifically Resurgence (and to a lesser degree We'll Make It) they struggle to counter, which GoP/WW is especially well suited to handle.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955043#Comment_3955043
See above: Gift of Pain/Weeping Wounds is a good counter, and others do exist in their own way.
I would go that far. I see two Botany's a match these days. That reduces a Mangled heal from 20 seconds to just under 13 seconds. You're only gaining 2.5 seconds per heal using something like Sloppy Butcher from just Botany alone. Broken is a really rare status ailment, and Coulrophobia is really only viable on a handful of killers with extra large TR's. Most survivors aren't healing within TR unless they absolutely have to.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955042#Comment_3955042
I remember them explicitly saying they wanted injuries to be more meaningful and allow the killer to slow the game down with injures rather than camping tunneling. Then they proceeded to giga buff Resurgence first then a bunch of other healing perks. I think the devs just throw darts at the wall at ideas and have no coherent vision for the game
I think they play the game at a very low level and have kneejerk reactions to things. They also cave to public pressure too easily. I'm still salty that they essentially deleted a killer (and cosmetics) I paid money for because some survivors whined about her.
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Survivor: Crofty Raider
Killer: Bad Hair Day? Just turn invisible!
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@100PercentBPMain said:
in times of great need I go back to Tombstone.
coh? Tombstone.
boil over? Tombstone.
mft? yup, Tombstone.
I gotta say, giving back a gigabuffed Botany with no rollback on Sloppy+Hemorrhage is an interesting choice.
Yeah, I remember them nerfing Mangled and Hemorrhage as a result of destroying the old CoH meta. Now they revert the healing meta, but not the other stuff. They do that a lot. They'll nerf one side as a consolation for a nerf to the other side, then undo the original nerf and leave the consolation nerf.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955026#Comment_3955026
Yeah? That's what I'm responding to.
Well, eight seconds, and only if Bill gets the unhook. Then Ace heals stupid quick, and the other two can self heal at reasonable speeds but nothing crazy.
That's just that screenshot, though, my suggestions were broader than just that.
I agree that GoP is the only healing slowdown that is genuinely worth running atm. Make them choose between being injured and slower gens. The problem is, they can wait out the hemorrhage and 99 a heal, but nothing's perfect and most survivors aren't going to do that.
Honestly, the best slowdown right now is quick downs, just like it's always been. Yeah, the survivors are always going to be healthy ten seconds after they get off hook, but if your downs are fast enough, it doesn't matter. That's why I've kind of stopped playing Xeno and Knight and focused more on Billy, Kaneki, Dracula and mostly Spirit. I suck with Blight, and hate the Nurse's playstyle, but using the rest of the S and A+ tier killers means you can get downs fast enough to keep up… most of the time.
I truly believe that the best build atm is Lethal/Corrupt, Agi, PR and GoP.
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@Callahan9116 said:
Hardly no one runs it already
Nah, Springtrap has made it popular with Sprint Burst to get away when he comes through the doors. I see one or two a game these days. I use it, too. It's genuinely good against ST, since you NEED an Exhaustion perk to get away from his insta-teleports.
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@jesterkind said:
I mean, you'd still be out there chasing a third survivor while they're healing, so you're still spreading pressure. It is weaker if they heal that quickly, though- Resurgence is particularly good at lessening hook pressure in that way.
(Though, while I'm about to help, I do want to point out only one of the survivors in that screenshot can heal in 3/4 seconds, the Ace running Resurgence)
If you're seeing this very frequently, I'd probably recommend keeping a counter perk or two in your build. I wouldn't recommend necessarily something like Sloppy Butcher or Leverage though, I'm pretty sure those numbers break down to not really matter too much in this context.
Rather, the perk I want to highlight the most is Gift of Pain, which I believe is now called Weeping Wounds. On top of it slowing down the heal and providing some progress loss via Haemorrhage, it also punishes them for healing up by slapping a genuinely noticeable repair penalty on them until they're injured again.
That's the perk I personally actually use, but off the top of my head I can think of a few other potentially helpful tools.
- Coulrophobia is probably the only perk I'd recommend that just slows healing down, since it also messes with the skillcheck needle and that throws a LOT of players off. Downside, obviously, is that they need to be in your terror radius, so killer/build/map specific.
- Deathbound punishes the healing action by incurring Oblivious on the healer if they split up. Not great, but not nothing.
- Any source of Broken that lasts a while (especially via addons) is useful here. Can't heal if you can't heal, y'know?
- Exposed helps cut down on it mattering that they're healthy, if you're playing a killer that can reliably capitalise on it.
- In a small way chase perks help here because it minimises the extra time in chase the extra health state brings, which helps you keep the pressure up easier.
Resurgence is very good, and the lesser healing builds are also pretty potent, but you do have answers. I'm probably forgetting a few, even.
The problem is, instead of the after hook heal taking 16 seconds, it takes 6. Less, if they have Resurgence.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949160#Comment_3949160
But this is not even the case with Anti-Tunnel Perks? I mean, just look at OTR. Its description says that it has 80 seconds of Endurance, but in reality, it can have exactly 1 second of Endurance after you are hit off the Hook. Why even introduce Perks which sound good on Paper, but can be negated by a single M1-swing?
Even DS with 5 seconds was not really good as Anti-Tunnel, because it has ALWAYS been the best idea to just push through it. Anti-Tunnel Perks need to be a big middlefinger for the Killer, not some mild inconvenience you can mostly ignore.
And it is not like Killers actually NEED to tunnel. You can win most of your games without tunneling, yet some Killers decide that they want to tunnel every game, because they want to win every game the easiest way possible. But most of the time you have another target nearby when someone gets unhooked… And yet, despite Perks which are supposed to be Anti-Tunneling (aka making tunneling harder), Killers decide to tunnel, since it is still the way easier way to go.
And last but not least - even if the main purpose of those Perks is to buy more time, the 1v1 experience should not be forgotten. Sure, the game is 1v4, but you cannot ignore the 1v1. Which we can see with OP here - the one Survivor who got tunneled out will not have had a good experience. I dont think many people will think "Oh, at least my team had more time, even if I did not have fun or much reward for the game". (Let alone that they wont win a 3v1 with 4 Gens to go… Basically at this point everyone can give up, since at this point the Survivors become BP-Pinatas because tunneling is just too strong)
If you made them powerful, survivors would use them offensively. They already do.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954997#Comment_3954997
According to my post above I have a lot of people agreeing with me a lot of votes up. Tells you there’s a big issue with slugging in general it’s not just a me problem. The problem starts when you want to run your favorite build that doesn’t require metas like DS Dead Hard, OTR, And Unbreakable. I have to run unbreakble in every match because I hate getting slugged the problem is I don’t want to because I want to run other perks hoping I have smoother games. People like you don’t know how it feels until it happens to you
Textbook appeal to popularity fallacy. Just because something is popular, doesn't make it good or correct.
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@Hexbadboy23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954809#Comment_3954809
Why should I have to run unbreakable in every match I’m in just to feel safe??? That’s the problem with this game I don’t want to keep running meta perks
This is the problem with the game. This right here.
If you want meta results, run meta builds. If you run off-meta builds, expect off-meta results. Just like Pallet Shredder Wraith is going to get his teeth kicked in by a good survivor squad, running some off meta build on survivor is going to lose you games. They're meta perks because they work and win games.
This is like me playing Legion with no gen slowdown, then complaining that gens went in under 5 minutes. "I shouldn't have to use gen regression just to play the game!"
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Sloppy helps, but not much
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@angrychuck said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954432#Comment_3954432
You understand that DS needs a hook state to trigger, right?
Sorry, I meant Deliverance.
Both of the survivors on the ground could have deliverance. Or there might be a Luck offering in play. OP is intentionally hiding their perks for some reason.
Regardless, this isn't "slugging for the 4k." It's slugging for the win.
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@mecca said:
It should be evident by now that it is not intended to play survivor solo. In fact, I would say 4 man SWF is the only way. They neglect, continue nerfing, and enforcing punishments, rules, and adding more and more unfun play styles to pigeon hole you to basically avoid survivor at all costs unless you play with friends and even then they are likely to leave you to play by yourself.
I disagree. They're trying very hard to balance the game around Solo Queue while letting SWFs get more and more broken.
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Item Tumbling?
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954440#Comment_3954440
Oh, so you barely play Survivor and you want to claim it's easy because the few times you played you had a nice time? F-off. And I've been patient since the game f-ing released, yet the Survivor experience has only gotten worse and worse over time. The crap devs have made it clear they don't really care about the Survivor experience and only want the Killer role to have fun. The fact they need to bribe Survivors will BP is all the proof you need. If you want more proof, look at the first "solutions" they went with:
An anti-camping mechanic that does not work, fills up at a snail's pace when it chooses to work, and turns off after all the gens are done.
An anti-tunneling mechanic that just requires an additional hit and doesn't actually make Killers stop tunneling.
An anti-slugging mechanic that is just a penalty-less give up button.
None of their first solutions even come close to fixing the issue. Oh, but what did BHVR do to mitigate issues Killer Mains were having?
An endgame timer so that Survivors had to rush to the doors - an endgame timer, mind you, that the Killer can forcefully start.
Survivors now spawn together so they can't begin working on multiple generators at once. This one would be fine, but guess what sunshine - Killers can spawn right next to the Survivors.
To stop "gen rushing" they've added multiple perks that make doing generators take twice as long to complete than they already do.
They even have perks that, when paired especially, allow the Killer to basically know where all the Survivors are permanently.
They also added perks that make it to where Survivors can't even leave or open the gate for a ridiculously long time.
Survivors are being punished for simply existing while Killers are having their hands held - nothing you or BHVR say or claim will change reality.
First of all, I'd really appreciate it if you dropped the aggressive, condescending tone.
Secondly, they say they're working on it.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954437#Comment_3954437
I've been aiming for first kill hook 7 for about a year now, and my games feel exactly the same before and after. Different regions or times of day, perhaps? Maybe the late night players are just easier to win against than whenever you're playing.
Afternoon, mostly. After I get off work, and before my wife gets home.
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I can agree with this.
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Maybe they added bots to the matches to mitigate queue times lol.