Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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I think a good way to deal with boons in general would be to make Shattered Hope basekit for killers, tbh. Maybe increase the time it takes to snuff it, but the ability to re-boon over and over (especially if the totem is in a central or hard to reach location) is what made CoH so oppressive.
And often led to the booner being tunneled out of the game.
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@drakejuul said:
While I understand the changes, still I feel unsatisfied. I understand that the the job of the developers are to shake up the meta, but not like how they have done.
DH and CoH the main point of topic, I do not think they should have been touched. If they wanted to mess with one they could have altered the healing speed of CoH, but not taken away its ability to self heal. People who complain about DH only complain because it’s being used properly. While I complain about NOED, I wouldn’t advocate for it to be taken away. I don’t understand why two perks that help people who soloQ the MOST need to be taken away?
I love this game very much and I appreciate the developers going back and changing some things it just feels as if the damage is done. If we want a more balanced game, the more popular and powerful perks of the killers side need to be altered as well. Not just the current meta gen perks.
People being able to self heal with CoH was the problem with it. The ability for survs to heal independently was the overall problem with healing in general. As a killer, if you know survs are having to team up to heal and you don't have 2-3 survs on gens at all times, it should (yeah, I know) make being coldly efficient (i.e. tunneling and stacked slowdown) less necessary.
BHVR's first crack at the healing nerf was too ham fisted and largely missed the nuance, but these new changes are great.
And I think the hit to DH was less about it being too powerful, but just getting it out of the meta. Six freaking years being a near constant in every match was just soooo tired. I've "only" been playing for three years, so I don't even recall a time when it wasn't at the top of the meta.
I don't think it's OP anymore (it absolutely was pre-6.1.0), it's just played out. I think most people are just sick of it, tbh.
Lock in the basement for a while. Or forever, whatever.
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I play mostly on PlayStation, but also have a Steam account, and I can say that it absolutely is a disadvantage being a killer on console. Adjust the controller sensitivity all you want, you just can't match the mouse when it comes to turning. That's not even to mention getting screwed by aim dressing. On consoled 360s aren't impossible to deal with by any stretch, but it's a lot easier on PC, that's for sure.
And needless to say, projectile killers are much more effective if you're on PC.
Survivor? Essentially no difference at all. In fact, I prefer to use controller when playing surv, and will even do so on PC.
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Legion is fun to play as, but weak and annoying af to face.
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@Steakdabait said:
it's rough for new players for both sides. Any game that is this filled with knowledge checks will be harsh for newer players
Yeah, the barriers for brand new players at this point are rough. It's very knowledge dependent, and essentially P2W. On both sides.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384909#Comment_3384909
"There is little risk" ... "They're not trying anything else (gens/escape)"
Except there is a risk, you literally just said it yourself. They are doing nothing to progress the match and they WILL 100% lose. When DBD is based on killing as Killer and surviving as Survivor, then dying is considered the "risk" factor according to the game's core design.
"That's pretty much your classic IRL Bullying scenario"
I heavily disagree. If I load into a FPS game, and I constantly die over and over, I am definitely not having fun. Is the person killing me a bully? No, they are playing the game. Their intentions are to have their own bit of fun, and sometimes it comes at the expense of others, but that does not make them a bully.
What makes the difference between "playing the game" and "bullying" is intentions, you are very blatantly ignoring that not everyone has the intention of making others mad.
"If people want to do stupid hijinks for fun, they should do it in KYF, not public matches"
(Radio Announcer Voice:) Just in, having fun is only restricted to private matches. Every public match must be an absolute sweatfest where everyone takes the matches competitively, as if money were on the line.
Think about this realistically. DBD is a game. Games are made for people to have fun on. Sometimes matches are unfun for some people, that's just how things go, but throwing labels on people based on such is pointless and takes away from the actual issues in the game.
If one party is prioritizing their fun over all else by willfully making life miserable for the other party, knowing full well the experience is almost certainly miserable for the other party, that's bullying.
"I'm not trying to win (or accomplish anything, really), but we're just having fun at your expense, sorry not sorry" is bullying BS. It's the exact same mentality schoolyard bullies have. Full stop.
And who cares if the end result is a win? The dead survs don't care because they weren't trying to win, and the killer almost certainly had a miserable time.
Almost every time I face a group like this, they end up dead by one means or another, but that almost always follows 20-30 minutes of tedious nonsense that I didn't enjoy one bit. I'd rather get get rinsed in 5-6 minutes by a comp squad than spend half an hour indulging some entitled friends on a power trip.
And the hilarious thing is that if you respond by doing something like slugging them all (if they are a B.O./Sabo crew), they'll usually get salty af and DC, because they weren't having fun anymore.
So yeah, it is a power trip. If all your focus is on frustrating the killer with one particular tactic, it's easy AF. The game isn't designed for that. It's designed for the survs to try to get out via completion of their objectives, and the killer to try to kill them. And every person who loads into a public match should reasonably expect that the game will play out under some variation of those conditions.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384923#Comment_3384923
I agree with that 3 hooks a row definition being true/pure tunneling but there are few exception. Like I have see good Oni:s who only focus hooking one survivor but just keep slugging everyone else between that survivor hooks.
In that match I was also pretty sure on yui:s second hook that it was another yui... There was 3 yui:s with that same drift cosmetics and I didn't paid much attention to names... I had huge pressure that whole match so for yui perspective I can see she felt I targeted/tunneled her but she could still see I hooked and chased others and she literally was last one to die.
I have had at least a couple of games where three or more survs were wearing the exact same cosmetic and I unintentionally tunneled someone straight out of the game.
Not your fault as a killer, and the risk survs take when they get cute with coordination. At this point in my DBD career, if I see a matching lobby it's kind of a relief because I don't even bother trying to sort them out, just down and hook whoever I see.
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@Deathstroke said:
So yeah the title says it so I was playing with dredge and I downed/hooked yui and then left to chase other survivors. So then I downed another yui very quickly and hooked her. In that time other yui was just healed under hook and I went there as I saw them with BBQ. There where two yui's and I could not tell who was who. But after downing one of them and hooking her appearently it was the first hooked yui.
Then I went to chase others again and found renato on locker and hooked him. Then again with BBQ saw two yui:s and downed one of them. But I noticed now it's again same yui who was hooked twice so I left her on the ground and chased the another yui downed and hooked her.
I decided to leave the other yui on the ground to give her second chance. And went to find others and I downed and hooked renato again. But last yui didn't unhook or heal the yui on the ground but instead was hiding so I ended up downing her as well. So game ended me slugging and hooking everyone.
First hooked yui blamed me from tunneling after the game. So was this tunneling she was literally last one to die and I had multiple hooks and death:s between her hooks...
No.
First off, if people wear matching cosmetics, they're kind of abdicating the right to cry about tunneling. Expecting the killer to filter for names and not just character/cosmetic is unreasonable.
As for other factors, they vary from person to person, but imo if you down anyone else after to surv in question, you're not tunneling. Also for me, to be a true tunnel, it has to be three hooks in a row. Sometimes people just aren't good or unlucky and end up in your face too often, and you can only expect the killer to willfully ignore you so much.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384887#Comment_3384887
I disagree. Being chased is the most fun aspect of the game for many Survivors, so having the opportunity to only have chases and ignoring the objective for the sake of personal fun does not constitute bullying.
"But it comes at the expense of the Killer's fun" is a common argument I see, but their intentions are NOT to make the Killer mad or upset, their intentions are to have fun and interact with the Killer, and just like any other game it sometimes does come at the expense of the other side. I dont see any different from any other game, just suddenly in DBD it becomes "bullying" which I dont agree with.
Bullying, in my opinion, only happens after/outside the match. If you attack or harass someone after the match/outside of the game, or directly make something personal (intentional targeting), then it is bullying.
And frankly, Id rather face off against teams playing for fun instead of winning than deal with 4 BNPs or medkits every match.
Nah, I think it's power trip. If you've got four friends who are decent enough at the game and coordinate things like flashlight saves and locker stuns well, there's little risk, and even if the killer is good, the team is in a position of power since they're not even trying to anything else (gens/escape).
People often rightly accuse many killers as being on a power trip, but bully squads are the same thing. Trying to toy with the killer.
And yeah, if the four survs are having a blast but the killer is deeply frustrated/annoyed, that's pretty much your classic irl bullying scenario. You can be toyed with and frustrated or DC, but the survs are having fun so it's not bullying? Yeah, not so much.
People should have a reasonable expectation that when they queue up they're going to get a game where people are trying to play the game as intended, even if they get their butts kicked. If people want to do stupid hijinks for fun, they should do it in kyf, not public matches.
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@Trollinmon said:
If you need kick perks to win games in pubs then it's a skill issue.
It's not just that the gen kick meta is getting killed, it's that all the old slowdown remains dead, so there's not going to be much left on the vine here with regard to effective slowdown.
And unless you are exclusively playing S/A tier killers, that creates a problem beyond being a "skill issue".
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@tippy2k2 said:
I'm fine with the term but kind of like Tunneling, many have labeled acts of...well...playing the game as Bully Squads rather than a very specific playstyle. The term has been watered down something fierce by people who think that a player who is good with a flashlight is a bully squad.
I think the "bully squad" term is overused and often misused; a team that just kicks your butt or otherwise demoralizes you just by being really good is not a bully squad.
On the other hand, if a coordinated team goes into a game with no real intention of pursuing their objectives (gens/escape), but instead intend to only engage and harass the killer at every opportunity (spamming flashlight saves, locker stuns, Boil Over/Sabo fiascos, etc., then yeah, it's accurate. That's a bully squad, and unless you know beforehand that the killer is in on it, it's bullying behavior.
It's a crappy way to play, and people who do it should be called out on it.
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- Not all of these changes will make it to live as is; some will be toned down
- This update hits both sides equally hard. It's a rare update in that way.
The only thing I see and really just hate it on its face is what they're doing to Billy.
People are funny; they want change, but they don't want to change.
Not saying I'm in love with all these changes, but any moves that are going to spur actual change aren't going to feel great at first. That's how life works.
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@Khastrx said:
Even if you ain't a streamer, some players just like the privacy. I dunno about PC, but on console other players can pretty easily find your profile (if they're on the same platform) and send you unwanted messages. Some people just get toxic for no reason, so it's either you turn on anonymous mode or change your (platform) profile settings to not get messages from non-friends.
You can change your settings so only friends can send messages. Non-friends can send friend requests, but few salty people will go that far, and even if they do, they're easy to ignore.
On PS4/PS5 I haven't seen an actual message from another player since 2019.
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Tunnelers are gonna tunnel; it's a player issue, not a game design issue.
No matter how you slice it, that remains the same. Keep healing strong, some killers are gonna tunnel out survs with medkits because they are huge time sinks. Weaken healing, and it will be as OP says. Every coin has a flip side
There's no good answer here, because no matter what is changed, the stone cold arithmetic of 3v1 vs. 4v1 for killers will always remain, the rest is just details. For those risk averse cowards who are terrified of losing, getting to a 3v1 asap is always going to be their play.
@fulltonon said:
none of those are related to healing at all, it's about survivor's choice and nature of tunneling.
There is no situation where saving 1 hooked injured person with your own body will not worth it, if survivors decide to not do objectively good choice they are just bad.
Hell, hook trade literally do exists, and proven to be fairly effective.
Yes. If escape is the goal, the correct play (pre-EGC, at least) is always going to be to give yourself up for someone who has been hooked more than you have. This will not change.
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@WesCravenFan said:
I'm willing to give up TEN top tier killer perks if it means banishing Dead Hard forever.
While many of us would absolutely love to see Dead Hard eternally banished to the Shadow Realm, I think the point is that BHVR seems utterly incapable (or unwilling) to practice discretion when nerfing perks (except for DH for some reason). It's usually the ham-fisted, wrecking ball approach, and then maybe a tiny fractional walkback that is akin to putting a dot band-aid on a giant sucking chest wound.
Now on the other hand, when you're trying to remake the meta, you kind of have to do that. If you lightly nerf things and people just keep on using them, you haven't really accomplished what you set out to do. If you want to push people away from their security items, you have make them unusable. It's really the only way.
My issue with this round of proposed changes is that if you're going to break the meta, you have to facilitate the rise of something else. The big perk overhaul last year did that. Kill these perks, fbut give us something else, even if it's different. I think some of these perk changes (aside from DH) will be eased off a little (CoB, OC and SH:PR are being murdered), but I'd almost rather they didn't, and we get some of the old slowdown meta back, or some other perks reworked in new ways.
From the killer side, what is going to replace the gen kick meta? I'm not going to be sad to see it go, but the old meta perks are still dead.
As it stands per the Dev Update, what we're likely to see is more people running medkits, but also more people absolutely shoving gens, and very little for killers to do to mitigate it.
I'm for a new hit and run meta, but something is still missing here.
But yeah, if you're going to kill DH, just kill it.
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Anytime NOED turns a 4E into a 4K, it's because the survs were bad (overly altruistic).
Don't get me wrong, it's annoying AF and I always toss a few choice words at may screen when it I see it, but it's not used enough to be an issue, and when it is, people need to know when to just bail if they can't find the totem.
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@SilentShepherd said:
And I say this as someone who owns every single Chapter DLC, every survivor, every killer in the game.
At least BHVR is trying to make the game better. There are other games out there, with their devs that simply let their game die and they don't care, no updates, etc. BHVR actually does care about Dead By Daylight.
I'm not saying don't complain.
Complain your hearts out. But at least support them, so they have the money to fix stuff and make the game better
What you're talking about is enabling, and long term it doesn't help.
Paying for a subpar product just says that you'll pay for a subpar product, and if that's what people do, that's what they'll continue to get.
That sort of approach is why the American auto industry went from the best to a joke; people bought out of loyalty regardless of quality.
In business, the only feedback that really matters is the feedback you give with your wallet.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383837#Comment_3383837
The game is not, no. Some people might be, on the other hand, and their use of meta perks can further drive others to use meta perks to counter them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the best perks to improve your chances of winning, but you should always expect them to be adjusted if that's the case. It's on us to make sure that there aren't undisputed best perks and instead a lot of different options to pick from depending on your playstyle.
It's not perk dependent in theory, but in practice it really is, because how the game plays is almost entirely a function of the people playing it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383854#Comment_3383854
...what?
6.1.0 massively favored Killers.
It was (far more than the upcoming one, really), but it was also kind of an outlier in that regard.
"Mains" might disagree, but this new update is actually pretty even handed, tbh. It really blows up the meta on both sides.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
I disagree. The ammount of strategy is (most of the time) nonexistent.
All most people do in this game is chase down the most braindead easy tactic available. I don't know at which point "Most Effective Tactic Available" got confused for "Most Lazy Tactic Available" but here we are 🤷♂️
Yeah, a lot of people are really invested in the idea the DBD is a skill fest, but it's not.
Even at its highest level (perhaps moreso, even), DBD is not 4D, galaxy brain chess.
And perhaps most importantly, the overwhelming majority of the player base (whom all players face at least sometimes because SBMM doesn't really SBMM), are hella casual.
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@Xane99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383722#Comment_3383722
Then why are you touching hillbilly? He already doesn't get picked a lot, so you nerf add-ons to make him even more unplayable? I'm sure you have an answer for everything.
The Hillbilly change is down to two things, imo:
- Overheat was a mistake, but BHVR doesn't want to remove it fully, because that would be admitting it was a mistake
- The proposed engraving nerfs are to "balance" out the Overheat tweak, because BHVR can't seem to process that not every single thing has to be a give and take.
Almost no one plays Billy, and the ones who do primarily do so to play fun, fly across the map curving Billy. Take that, and he's all but dead.
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@Katzengott said:
Or in short: MMR forces meta and ppl feel even more they have to use the strongest perks to compete.
That primarily, and because when so many people are running the same perks, it forces similar tactics, and games start to feel like a skipping record. Having games constantly playing out the same way is really boring, and takes a lot of the fun out of the game.
Mixing up the meta is very much a good thing, and while it causes short term discomfort for some (as people are forced to change a bit), it ultimately keeps the game feeling somewhat fresh.
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BHVR really needs to learn that in some cases you can just give without taking.
Poor Billy.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380123#Comment_3380123
If you thought genrush was bad before. Just you wait. With healing being a complete waste of time now, I hope you like everyone running repair speed buffs and just genrushing with toolboxes 24/7.
Yeah, they basically killed the old slowdown meta (Pop/Ruin/Etc.) and replaced it with the genkick meta, which they are killing without bringing back any of the old stuff.
Gens are gonna fly.
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@GannTM said:
Jesus Christ the amount of whining on these forums is so astronomical.
Every time a big update like this comes out it really highlights who the players who only play one side are. The ability of some people (on either side) to only see half of what is going on is mind boggling.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369096/the-survivor-entitlement-is-insane
Complaining about 50% healing speed nerf is entitlement?
I play mostly survivor these days, but healing was busted af, and has been for years. A fully loaded green/ranger medkit was a devastating weapon. LIke there is/was no real reason to run anything else as a surv. These changes just bring it to where it should have been.
And let's not forget that the most popular gen slowdown perks (Eruption, CoB, Overcharge, SH:PR) have been either crippled or cut in half with these recent updates.
There's a lot of wailing from partisan "mains" going on, but there is actually a lot of balance with these changes.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378521#Comment_3378521
you can have normal ping with that icon, because it's not showing ping but packet loss...you can have low ping but high packet loss hence the two different icons in teh game.
Yeah, I had the red packet loss icon the other day, but my ping was like 35. The two things can be mutually exclusive, though they often aren't.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378515#Comment_3378515
Basekit BT gave survivors tunnel protection. The result of giving survivors this perk only increased tunneling - not decreased it.
Could that perhaps be because BT only works for 10 seconds and DS used to work for 60 seconds so now killers can just wait out the 10 second endurance to get a free down now that DS is garbage?
Speaking for myself, with old DS I'd be more likely to put an unhooked surv down again because I assumed they'd have DS, and I'd want to eat it to take it off the board so they couldn't use it late/end game. Of course BHVR disabled it in the end game which would have greatly reduced that approach (in theory), but unfortunately they also nerfed the stun duration to the point where it became generally worthless.
I say keep it disabled in the endgame (and of course have it deactivate on a conspicuous action), but make the stun duration longer than before, like 7 seconds, and maybe even add in a haste boost. I think that would be the best approach using a perk to dissuade tunneling.
Of course the worst thing about old DS was how it was used offensively, so you'd have to be very careful of not tuning it back to the point where that becomes a thing again. Like basekit BT, using it for anything but getting away from the killer isn't the intent, and killers should be able to punish survs for using them to bodyblock or otherwise interfere with pursuing other survs.
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@Veinslay said:
Acting like there's no correlation between being P100 and being above average/sweatier at the game is silly. Generally the more people do something, the better they get at it. P100s in lobbies means multiple Dead Hards, strong items, map offerings, and probably SWF
There is some correlation, but it's not 1:1, and sometimes it barely means anything. Especially now that enough time has passed for even semi casual players to have accrued enough BP to P100 at least one character. It's not a high bar to clear.
And yeah, most P100s I have encountered have been at least somewhat sweaty, I have gone up against some pretty mediocre ones as well.
I remember being dumbfounded once recently when we (a random solo team) absolutely pantsed a Nurse and thought they must have been a baby, but they were P100.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376885#Comment_3376885
So, would the Killer equivalent of a "bully" squad be a Skull Merchant or Knight 3-gen?
Grueling, miserable games that you might end up winning but your experience was totally #########?
Maybe; I think of bullying as your opponent(s) trying to make your life miserable as much (if not more) than trying to win.
So maybe more of a power trip killer who slugs all game, smacks you on hook, bleeds survs out, and just tries to generally demoralize the survs. Sometimes you win those games, but they suck.
I think early game, hour long three genning is more about being so afraid of losing that you'll make everyone suffer a long miserable match (I can't imagine it's fun for even the killer) than intentional bullying.
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@BenOfMilam said:
I would actually say most killers have really good add-ons. There's just a handful that don't have a lot of good ones. Namely Pyramid Head, Freddy, and Nemesis. You can make an argument for Deathslinger, but the good ones he does have are VERY good.
Kind of funny that you mention Sadako and Knight, since they both have a lot of really good add-ons.
Yeah, people always bring Sadako up, but her add-ons are pretty good. God tier when compared to flaming trash like PH's add ons. He desperately needs an add-on overhaul.
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Baiting DH out works much of the time, but at strong pallets/windows you are forced to take a swing at a predictable moment, so there's little you can do in those situations. And lunges and wind-up attacks are pretty useless against DH.
And debating the semantics of "second chance" seems silly; you get to stay up where you otherwise would be on the floor. Not sure how that's anything but a second chance.
You know what would be fun? Like a "pump fake" option where a button tap feigns an attack.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376793#Comment_3376793
You raise an interesting question.
Can you be "bullied" in a game that you won?
Yes, or at least an attempted bullying. I've won grueling matches against bully squads, and just because you win doesn't mean the experience wasn't miserable.
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@Pulsar said:
Because they're afraid of losing.
That's really what it boils down to. People dislike losing and will do whatever they can to ensure that they get an easier game.
I only rarely lobby dodge as killer, and when I do it's not because I'm afraid of losing, it's because there are 3-4 TTVs in the lobby, and that often means some sort of meme-ing or dumb hijinks for entertainment are going to ensue. I'll take on a squad of all P100s, but I just want to play a normal game.
Also, I see lots (at least one every 2-3 lobbies) of survs bail on matches, ostensibly because they didn't like the look of the team they were grouped with, which is valid. If I load into a lobby with a bunch of base cosmetic P0s and P1s , I might bail as well.
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@Marik1987 said:
Everybody plays at high MMR it seems 😅
Studies have shown that about 70-80% of all people think they are above average at any given thing (which is of course impossible). And upon reading that, most people tell themselves that they are ones who actually are, and others a deluded.
That's not to say OP doesn't play at high MMR, just that saying you do means about nothing.
@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376355#Comment_3376355
Killer isn't stressful. It's mostly just boring.
I have over 1.2K hours in each role, and if killer is boring, then survivor must be like being comatose.
Killer is only even a little boring at lower levels.
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Friday the 13th is always going to be at the top of my list, until it either happens or we definitively hear that it won't.
I love the Alien franchise, but I also don't feel like it'd be right for DBD somehow. Willing to be wrong, though.
As log as it's not FNAF or another zoning killer I'll probably be good with whatever comes.
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I don't know, but if they replaced the current Freddy with the Robert Englund version and gave him smack talk voice lines, I'd play the hell out of him regardless of how bad he was.
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Once all the gens are powered, especially if a gate is already opened, "tunneling" and "camping" don't exist anymore, imo. Once there are no gens left, there is no objective left but to salvage what kills you can, and you're totally justified in doing just that by whatever legal means you can.
If a team has been playing well and dominating all game, that doesn't mean they're entitled to the 4E.
As a survivor, I expect nothing to be off the table in the EGC, and neither should anyone else.
And like others have said, don't engage. I will never stop extolling the virtues of disabling endgame chat/messaging.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375797#Comment_3375797
You act like this hasn't been a thing long before basekit bt was a thing. Bodyblocking with your anti tunnel perk is the one way you will get me to tunnel you.
Yeah, BT is there to help you get away from the hook after being saved.
I almost always will go to lengths to avoid tunneling, but if a surv decides they don't care about getting away, I will oblige them with an express ticket out of the match.
Being freshly unhooked is not a free pass. If you just got unhooked, gtfo or back on the hook you go.
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The game is not a hide and seek simulator, it is predicated on the survivors trying to escape, not simply trying not to be found.
Because the game isn't designed to account for this, doing nothing but hiding is exceptionally easy, and finding survivors who are doing nothing but hiding is exceptionally tedious. There's no real gameplay or skill involved, it's just stalling for the sake of it.
If you find yourself in a no win scenario, it is what it is. Hiding is literally prolonging the inevitable. Hide long enough, you lose anyway.
If all you do is hide, you're not trying to win, you're just playing to frustrate the killer and you're in the wrong, simple as that.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372048#Comment_3372048
If they care about winning, they should probably play a game where winning means anything. Not that winning is the priority for these people. Their obvious priority is to curate negative attention.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372055#Comment_3372055
No really, what second chance perks? Decisive Strike was nerfed into oblivion. OTR and BT are negated by killers just hitting you immediately off hook. No one runs any of these. That leaves, what? Unbreakable?
Also I'm not sure why you're playing a multiplayer game if you seemingly despise the idea of interacting with other players. If you don't want to actually play the game, and instead want the comforting monotony of trundling between three generators and kicking them over and over and over until the server eventually forces the match to end, might I suggest a farming game? That way you can get your fix of repetitive non-gameplay without deliberately boring other people into submission.
Yeah, I think the disconnect between some people is on their feeling/perceptions on what "winning" means, and how they value it.
To me, "winning" in DBD means about as little as it can in a multiplayer game. DBD is unbalanced as hell (and unbalanceable, I would argue), technically buggy and unpolished, is extremely poor at reflecting technical skill, each match is massively RNG dependent, and win conditions are ill-defined and vary wildly.
When it comes to viewing a "win" as a contest of skill versus your opponent(s), DBD is worthless. If there was a spectrum of multiplayer video games based on PvP skill requirement, I might put technical fighting games on one end, and DBD clear on the other. To me, a win in DBD means essentially nothing.
It's a party game people try and paint a comp element over. Many people who play in other comp scenes are amused to find there is a comp scene in DBD, and for good reason. I am generally an intensely competitive person, from athletics to video games, to pretty much anything where performance versus an opponent can be quantified. To the point where I have had to spend a lot of time maturing and toning that part of myself down. But I don't bring that mentality to DBD, because it doesn't lend itself well to that at all. It's a mess.
Which is why people who use intentional three genning, early game hard tunneling, etc. are so exasperating. They suck the fun out of a game where fun is the only real draw, and for what?
I would argue it isn't that they enjoy winning, so much as they are afraid of losing. These sorts of tactics aren't about having fun so much as they are about eliminating the risk of losing quickly, and at any cost. Or simply to make sure someone else isn't having fun, which is pathetic and reflects a real need for some sort of introspection on their part.
But some people can turn anything into a way to validate themselves, to make themselves feel above others. If they want to feel like they proved something by winning (or simply not losing) a game of DBD, more power to them, I guess.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372023#Comment_3372023
Another idea for 3 Gens killer.
- Trapper is weak af and needs the help
- You wouldn't need to have all your traps at the beginning to do that, you could gather and place them all, or simply use the trapper sack, so his three gen potential really wouldn't be any greater than it is now
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Trapper should just start each match will all of his traps; BS RNG like this is just one reason why.
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@Huge_Bush said:
It's the best! I was on the verge of taking an extended vacay from DBD but I decided to use some AC's and purchase Myers and try him out. OMG I wish I was introduced to this sooner! I always hated going against it when playing survivor since it nullified my playstyle and gave me mini- heart attacks, but my goodness is it so delicious to play as!
I completely forget about trying to win and just wanting to scare the poop out of people. I generally let everyone escape unless they're toxic. Some people cuss me out or accuse me of cheating or picking an OP (lol) build, but the majority praise it. I just watched a streamers stream and it was hilarious watching them scream over and over. One poor girl was so nervous she couldn't hit skill checks any more.
Please Devs, don't ever touch scratched mirror unless you're going to buff it. It's so much fun.
I love playing SM Meyers and I do the same thing: get as many pants filling jumpscares as I can and let everyone go. Seems mean to take years off people's lives and then sacrifice them. Especially baby survs who you can tell have no idea what is happening. You get to that point where they're all just crouching in terror.
It's one of my favorite things in DBD. From both sides, honestly. It's as closer to actual horror as this game gets.
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Probably the Trickster, currently. But big picture, Twins is the one I see the least often, by far. No surprises on that count.
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It was pretty much surv sided crap before, but now it's really scenic heavily surv sided crap. Some days I think like 95% of the talent at BHVR is on the art design team.
That said, despite my best effort, I'm struggling mightily to conjure up a single iota of sympathy for Blight mains
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@SAWII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370629#Comment_3370629
‘Why isn’t an asymm with different team sizes and power roles as straightforward to balance as a game with even teams and roles?’
Hmmm, I wonder.
Yeah, you can't really compare DBD to much, really, and certainly not on a one to one basis.
I don't think it is balanceable, really. The best we can hope for is a loose approximation, and even that seems optimistic. There's just too many ways to play, and too little of what does on in a match is quantifiable in any meaningful way for there to be an accurate system.
And color me skeptical that the match maker is all that accurate even in what it is trying to do under the parameters it has. Most of my lobbies are quick, but the matchmaking seems scattershot at best.
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@Emeal said:
More Killers like Plague? so more Killers with the second part of her Power locked behind a Survivor's action?
No Thanks.
You can get corrupt purge a fair bit without the survs cleansing, you just need to build for it (apple add-ons, iri seal).
And having four fully infected survs isn't the worst thing, either. If you build around the idea you'll have to M1 everyone but they'll be one hit downs (i.e. be sneaky), that can be highly effective as well.
Plague is one of my most used killers, and tbh, I find the "never cleanse" approach survs take to her is only marginally more effective than just constantly cleansing. Almost six of one, half a dozen of the other.
One thing people who don't play her may not appreciate is how fickle actually landing corrupt purge hits can be; it's only super effective in dead zones, hallways, and open areas. In loops your M1 is much more reliable. Most people probably know this, but her vomit functions as a series of small projectiles rather than an actual stream, so you'll see a "stream" of vomit seemingly pass right through survs without landing an infuriating number of times.
Overall though, I think she's very well designed.
@Krazzik said:
I love Plague but I don't know how healthy it is to just completely nulify medkits and healing addons with no effort.
Survs can always cleanse to "re-enable" their med-kits. Forcing the survs into that sort of choice is almost the entire point of her design.
You can deny her power, but there is a price to pay for that. If you could deny (restrict would probably a better term) her power but still heal, how fair would that be to her?
She'd be bottom tier.
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@Pulsar said:
Guarding 3-gens from the start of the game until the bitter end over an hour later needs to go.
Anything that enables that style of play should be looked at.
Absolutely, but how do you deal with that without preventing killers from punishing survs for the self-imposed three gen?
Because just eliminating the three gen altogether is a non-starter.
A killer just sitting on a three gen from the jump is super lame, but if a surv team just starts working on gens from one side of the map to the other and leaving three in a corner is something they should absolutely be made to pay for.
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Ngl, I think the endless screams are pretty funny. When it gets annoying, I'll just start smacking them