TWiXT
TWiXT
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Oh no doubt. For the longest time in the summer of 2019, on these forums, it was all "nurse needs nerf" for an exuberant amount of posts, and less than a year later she got it, but immediately after that everyone clamored upon "spirit needs nerf" and again the devs catered to it, albeit almost a year later... so not so bad, but seriously... tbh, Blight is very well balanced overall (despite some of his add-ons, which honestly serve a purpose to give him an edge against the higher skilled players), and regardless of this, high MMR/SBMM survivors apparently don't like something that can challenge them at their level, so yeah... once Nurse gets nerfed AGAIN... Blight is obviously next.
The devs say they don't cater to the higher SBMM side of the community, but time and time again yield to the overall survivor communities most vocal claims. This would normally be fine if they didn't focus entirely on the majority of the player base (low - mid SBMM survivors) and actually took both sides into account instead of ignoring one (the High SBMM) over the other (the low-mid SBMM). Seriously, What's Wrong with facing an enemy that's too strong for you unless you get better with your perks and playstyle? What's wrong with a killer that, through their power/nature demands that you change your playstyle up a bit?
Sigh! 2019 had the most updates that favored the killer side, and actually worked towards balancing the game for both sides, but as of 2022 however, this "balance" hasn't been kept in mind by the devs, and again one side is outright dominating the other again. Add in the SBMM system that only rewards the "scummiest" play styles on both sides, and well... "you reap what you sew."
As long as the Devs keep at this pattern, Blight is next on the chopping block, and Spirit is again the next one, followed swiftly by Huntress, Doc, and (Believe it or not) Plague since she defeats the healing meta simply by existing. Obviously, "we can't have killers that defeat any core meta adopted by survivors, if all survivors want to play the same way every match." can we?
EDIT: I may seem bitter, and am jailed (for an April fools joke that too many took seriously) but honestly, you know I'm right. I'm not saying that the devs are inherently "survivor sided", I'm just saying that they have an awful lot of historical evidence to support the fact that they cave into survivor complaints much more than they do killers. 2019 was the best year to play killer, because they actually gave killer complaints about balance their due, and as of now, I feel they should remember that and work towards balancing the game by listening to the killer mains again, over the abundance of the survivors complaints.
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@CutiLaura said:
I've been playing for less than a week, and I've already finished games with the nurse in which they didn't even make a player (there were also games where everyone escaped) it depends a lot on the team of survivors of course.
The tips I can give you are:
01 - Never walk with the nurse, always use 1 teleport for locomotion, 2 teleports make her more fatigued...
02 - Always start patrolling the generator furthest from you first, forget about the generators that are close to you, you waste time looking at empty generators..
03 - Whenever you find a survivor and he enters behind a wall, a teleport to where you last saw him, and the second teleport to get him (never try to guess where he's going to be "I think he's going to be out front , I'll teleport to the front" then you teleport and he turned around and you lost him.
04 - Always try to catch the survivor with a teleport, using 2 teleports is not good, you get more fatigue, you only use the second teleport for "short distances", your goal is to reach the survivor with the first teleport, the second teleport is for you "fix" your hit, if he makes a turn, enters a window for example, you use the second to cross and hit him.
05 - Never leave a "Save for free", whenever you hook a survivor, patrol the generators that are near the hook, and patrol around the hook yes that's "camping" and no, that won't ban you like many keep saying. At least try to hold this survivor on the hook until he gets to the 2nd stage of the hook, and if someone is going to save you hit that person, and knock him down, and put him on the same hook. (doing this, the person who went to stage 2 of the hook is already dead, just take him and put it on the hook, that you removed one from the game, you may have taken 3 generators, even so, they will have one pressure, one less person in the game, and another one on the hook, you just need to take care of that person, or go after the others and slug, whichever is easier).
06 - Use the teleport to go up and down floors in some maps with stairs, you can cross from top to bottom with the teleport and take the survivor by surprise, I always do that.
07 - Use 1 or 2 anti-generator perks, I like to use the clown perk, because when I know it has an advanced generator, and I hook someone up, I teleport to that generator, and regress it 25% :) it gives me a lot time.
08 - Most important tip: Don't be a "nice killer" as many survivors are lamenting, saying that "you should stop camping, you can't slug, you're bad for focusing on the same survivor until you take him out of the game".
REMEMBER, YOU'RE A KILLER TO KILL GENERAL, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE NICE BECAUSE THEY'RE "MOURNING"
The nurse for me is the strongest killer in the game.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/71457QLQWJWA/20220403234919-1.jpg
Another thing I would add, because it's just obvious, is that when it comes to cosmetics, you should use a weapon that is either very slim, or has a huge "see through" gap in it. The reason being because her Weapon Wipe animation takes up Quarter of your screen, and anything that allows you to still see where a survivor is going in that lower right Quarter is a godsend for any killer, but especially a Nurse player. I Don't CARE how "pretty", "aesthetically pleasing" or "menacing" the weapon is, if it's a detriment to your view point or tracking ability, it doesn't belong in your arsenal.
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Playing Nurse takes time, discipline, and above all: a good sense of survivors movements.
There are currently 2 tactics most commonly implemented by Nurse players: Reactive, and Predictive.
Reactive: These players use the Nurses Blink ability to follow a survivors pathing, and react to how they react to her movements. You can blink to a survivors last position .3 seconds ago, and still have .5 seconds to react to where they move, so if they move behind an object, and you Blink to their last visible position, you see wherein they are moving next and can again react to that for your next blink, or in the case of them back tracking, attack. This tactic is very effective for a new Nurse player, but also easy to avoid once a survivor learns of it.
Predictive: You actively predict where the survivor will be, regardless of obstacles, and either blink right on their position or right ahead of it. This tactic is very advanced, but at the same time easy to avoid once a survivor learns of it.
After I've defined these 2 tactics... do you see the thing in common with both of them?
Survivors aren't stupid, so, to be a true Nurse MONSTER to the survivor community... you have to master being the 3'rd and most rare type of Nurse player: The Adaptive!
This is a Nurse who recognizes any survivors who have previous experience of either the reactive Nurse, or the predictive one, and employs their blinks in contrast to what they're expecting! You have to have a fluid sense of mind, and an immediate sense of situation to both play against this kind of survivor, and adapt on the fly. For a seasoned Nurse recognizing a survivors playstyle, based upon the Nurses they've encountered thus far, only 1 or 2 chases is enough to suss them out, but once you discover what catches them off guard, and down them, they might still might try to change their tactics, and so you must be willing to change yours as well. No one says this will be easy!
THIS IS WHY THE NURSE IS A VERY HARD LEVEL OF KILLER TO PLAY, and it's what makes her the most exciting! Her tactics and skill take much more time to become simply "decent" with against any equally "decent-good" survivor, and it takes FAR more time to "Master" her against other "Master" survivors! Because of this, she is often seen as one of the ONLY killers capable of keeping up with, and even able to challenge the highest SBMM survivors. To me, that makes her actually fun to both play as and play against, because no matter what level of skill you play at, she can meet and challenge it.
What I'm saying is... I know you don't like her right now, but trust me, she's far more powerful and capable than you know at the moment, and NO, that's not including add-on or Perk combos, because a truly skilled Nurse can still "win" or at the minimum, "put up a decent fight" (without perks or add-ons) against the highest SBMM Survivors... and that scares them (but honestly though, it should invigorate and inspire them to take the challenge head on and do better).
She is probably the only killer designed around a "high effort = high reward." Regardless, it's well earned, so don't give up on her, and you'll understand why after enough time playing her (if you have the patience to put up with it, which, surprise, most "Reward me now/entitled" players don't). It takes a minimum of 20 hours playing her exclusively to just get "decent" or at the least "good" with Nurse... and sadly it take 3x that to become a "Master" with her, and at least 2x that to become a "GOD"... Funny enough, no other killer in this game takes nearly that long. However, amongst all the killers in the roster... Nurse, is actually WORTH the effort! This is probably the only thing the devs have gotten right IMO.
Edit:
Stop complaining. Decide if you are willing to put in the effort to master her, or simple give up instead of coming here to complain about it. She's Very Hard to learn, but I promise you: If you devote at least 50 hours into playing her exclusively, you'll be more than "decent" and well on your way to "Mastering" her, and if you actually do "Master" her... you'll actually start to pity the survivors you face. Not because she's "broken" or "OP" mind you, but because you damn well earned your skill level with her, and there are very few survivors out there that can compete/say the same.
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It's the power of Bushido!
A time honored Japanese tradition of expectations for anyone be it as a way of life, warfare strategy, or purpose, which doesn't accept the shame of defeat, and focuses entirely on honor. This is something obviously, all survivors should respect... but due to the current meta and nature of survivors in the game at the moment, none do, otherwise, at least every Yoichi player who remains the last survivors standing, wouldn't accept the Hatch, and choose to die by their enemies hand, as otherwise it would only prolong their shame, which would intolerably mark their entire bloodline and those who were most loyal to them.
This is a STRONG power that earns respect among those who team up with them, and their enemies, and is the ultimate sign of good sportsmanship. This power CAN be yours, but sadly, setting an example of honor in an honor-less world, is almost meaningless. Sigh... Poor Asakawa-san's values don't stand a chance in modern times.
Edit: Incase you're wondering, I got jailed over an April Fools joke, that not enough people understood was a "joke" So, be careful when making your own jokes. Enough said. Otherwise, if you read (most) of my previous comments/discussions, I think you'll find I'm a pretty nice guy that just wants to help. I may be a killer main, but honestly, the set of rules I follow and posted on these forums, are non-biased, and I stand by them. If you like, you can read those here:
@TWiXT said:
Due to the new Resident Evil Chapter release, we have received an influx of new players, and so I must start this post by saying:
Welcome to Dead by Daylight, and I hope you are all having fun so far (despite how rough this chapters release has been)!
That being said, you're likely to see a whole lot of forum posts, and/or chat messages citing "Made up Rules" Killers and Survivors should follow. Most, if not all of these are based on individual experiences, and are heavily biased for what ever side (Killer or Survivor) the posting member primarily plays, so before you comment or "side" with anyone, here is a list of unbiased "rules" that I believe everyone can get behind as a foundation to enjoying your experience in DbD:
1 - Play how you want to play and enjoy the game.
2 - If you show no respect... don't expect any.
3 - The Killers role is to kill, the Survivors is to survive... Both by any means necessary. This is the Hearts-blood Core reality of how this game is played! No matter how a killer or survivor(s) win the match, it's all part of the games design, and no one should waste any time or energy complaining about it as long as they've gained their victory using the legal mechanics, or tactics the game provides/allows them to achieve it!
In other words ALL IS FAIR when it comes to playing the role you've chosen (unless cheating/hacking, but we'll get into that further down the list in rule 7). If there's anything you feel is unfair about either side:
- Reflect upon your own side and what tactics and builds you/your team are using to achieve your goal.
- Compare it to what your opponent(s) used to achieve theirs.
- If possible, strive to experience the other side FIRST before you post any complaints on the forums about your experience against your opposition.
- Ask yourself if there is something inherently broken in the games mechanics that needs to be addressed before you resort to posting your complaint (e.g. Encountering perks, items, add-ons, mechanics, or abilities that absolutely provide too much of an advantage to your opposition, and are un-counterable by anything you do. If there is a counter to these things, either discovered by yourself or researched, save your complaint and learn/employ said counter the next time you face it, if not... then by all means let the devs know by posting your complaint).
Always remember, if your opponent won a match/trial while using the legal mechanics the game provides, it's not really their fault for taking advantage of it, is it? In other words, if you have a complaint you're just itching to express on the forums, you should first ensure that you're Legitimately Hating the game, not the player. As anything else will be seen as nothing more than a post filled with "banal whining" by the majority of the community.
4 - When the gates are powered... Anything goes!
Don't kid yourself by thinking otherwise! Neither side is gonna roll over and just "let you win" when this happens, and not only do both sides know this... Realistically at that point the only job the killer role has is to secure kills since there aren't any gens left for them to protect, and the only job the survivors have is to escape with as many alive as possible.
So, No matter what tactics or skills you employ at this period in the match/trial... The gloves are off! Recall rule 3, and feel free to do whatever it takes to achieve your goal. No one can blame you for whatever you do in the endgame, and if they do, for the most part they're just being sore sports.
Enjoy your victory, or embrace your defeat. Either way, "When the gates are powered" is, more often than not, the most intense part of the trial, and you should take whatever advantages you can against your opposition as they (mostly) won't show any mercy towards you.
5 - You paid money for a multiplayer experience, and thus aren't entitled to win every match. Anyone who takes umbrage to this should stick to single-player games where-in you are entitled to eventually win for the money you paid. Being salty because of a lost match is unbecoming, embarrassingly juvenile, and toxic to the communities reputation. We're all people pitting our skills, strategies, builds and knowledge against each-other. If you lose and have nothing good to say in the post game chat or over the console chat system: Either Leave a "gg," or no message at all, and then calm down/lick your wounds, and move onto the next match. This is just a game after all.
6 - For PC players: Post game chat can be closed using the ">>" in the lower right of the chat box, and will remain closed until you open it again. No one deserves abuse, so if you find yourself frustrated over excessive endgame chat toxicity: Feel Free to Report the most egregious offenders, or otherwise Just close it, and continue enjoying the game in peace.
For Console Players: I understand that many other players can/will attempt to contact you via the consoles messaging service, and that this can't always be ignored or shut off. None the less, you do not deserve abuse, and if anyone is violating that via text or voice messages, then they are violating the policies the consoles communication service stands for! Feel free to let your consoles administrators know that your rights to enjoy this game are being infringed upon by other players, or otherwise, if possible, try to simply ignore the messages they send you, and continue playing at your leisure.
7 - This is a 4v1 Lobby and Match style, or Asymmetrical Multiplayer game. When you queue up to play a match you are committing to seeing it through so that everyone can enjoy the game, and everyone else who queued up is depending on your commitment to the match in order to experience said enjoyment. The acceptable reasons for Intentionally Disconnecting from a match are as follows:
A Game breaking bug rendering you incapable of playing a normal match.
A Player(s) taking the game hostage/hacking/exploiting bugs or unintentional game mechanics, or bullying/griefing you. (Record if possible, and Report them after leaving the match.
Influences and situations outside of the game that make your disconnection unavoidable in order to deal with said circumstance(s).
Disconnecting from a match intentionally for any other reason is a practice in bad sportsmanship that Ruins the experience for all other players, Disconnecting over petty reasons doesn't do anything other than piss off everyone else, and makes you a worse player for it since you don't learn how to play any better by quitting. Disconnecting is currently being punished for a good reason: Too many DC's from too many players results in leaving the community as a whole with a sour experience, and could eventually kill the game we love. If you are frustrated with how a match is going; Take it in stride as a learning experience, see it through to the end, take a break if you need to, and decide if you want to queue up for another match. We all bought this game in order to play it with others despite how each match goes, and the majority of the fun this game offers is in the variation of each individual match.
Don't be a petty DC'er.
8 - For survivors: Rage Quitting via suicide on the hook is a unique option available to the survivor side of this game and is your choice, but If your suicide on the hook isn't advantageous to your team, as with rule 7, all it does is ruin the experience for the rest of your team, and piss everyone off. While it's not likely to ever be punished, it's still regarded by the community as a show of bad sportsmanship. If you don't at least try to play through until the end, regardless of the results, you are only hurting the experience for all other players both new and old, but it's with the new players where this hurts their game experience the most.
Bad matches happen, we understand, but that's no reason "throw a game", especially over petty reasoning. Matches can turn around at the drop of a hat as long as everyone's still playing, and often do, but you won't experience that if you RQ on the hook, and by doing so you drastically affect the teams ability to pull off said "turn around". On top of this, it does nothing for your personal skill growth as a player, or your Blood Point/Experience gains, so there aren't really any reasons to do this other than petty/selfish ones.
9 - Regarding "Toxic" behavior: Killers have a limited but impactful set of behaviors that are, by and large, considered "Toxic" by the community, but survivors have far more of these "Toxic" behaviors available to them. The reason for this is because... while killers can only be "Toxic" towards survivors, Survivors can be "Toxic" to either the killers or their fellow survivors.
I'm certain many of you have either experienced these behaviors, or have seen them reported/complained about on the forums, and While a decent amount of them don't fit the "spirit" of the game... a surprising amount of them do!
Please refer to this article:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/139-game-rules
This outlines the basics of what is considered Reportable amounts of player Toxicity, but also defines what many consider to be "Toxic" behavior, as simply part of the game.
That being said, there's still a lot of behaviors that, while not ban-able offenses, are ultimately considered "Toxic" by the community: Leaving a survivor to die on their first hook even though the killer isn't "Face-camping" them, Purposely "Sandbagging" another survivor so that they will get hit or downed by the killer, Face-camping in general, Slugging the Entire Survivor team until they bleed out, etc... While none of these behaviors are considered ban-able offenses, none of them are any fun for the victims, and They will let Behavior/the Devs know about it!
I Urge all players to Recall Rule 2 when making these choices, and Have some common decency when you play! We're all players, and we all want to enjoy the game together, but when any Player(s) repetitively engage in these kinds of "Toxic Behavior" to the point that the community picks up on it, they have been known to outright Mercilessly attack/target these players, and with enough community pressure/collected evidence, some "toxic" players have been banned by the Devs due to enough community backlash over their antics (look up Ochido if you aren't convinced).
There's only so much "Toxicity" this Community and the Devs CAN or WILL tolerate, as should be expected of any gaming community, so while it's "Okay" to have a little "Toxic" fun at others expenses from time to time, PLEASE, for your own sake... DON'T MAKE A HABIT OF IT!
Consider yourselves Fairly Warned.
10 - If it's a legal mechanic in the game, don't be afraid to use it...No matter what side you play. Half the fun is discovering new strategies, counters, and synergies using the tools the game provides, so no matter how effective or overpowered you feel they are, there's nothing wrong with using them to your advantage.
11 - Take the good with the bad in stride, rise to meet the challenge every new match presents, but overall...
have fun!
Honestly, this is just a list of Common Sense spelled out for everyone to see. The inherent problem of "unwritten" or "Made up rules" is that they're more of guidelines that nobody is obligated to follow. I know that this list won't change everyone's minds, much less their playstyles, but I felt that if I expressed the rules I follow when playing this game for all to see, maybe others might have them in mind when playing, whether they choose to use them or not.
To all you new players, again Welcome to DbD, I hope this was helpful for you, and if you are going to follow any "Made up Rules", I believe this is a good set to start off with.
Any Praise, condemnation, Creative Criticisms or suggested additions to this list of rules are welcome! Please comment if you have anything to add or say.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2879767#Comment_2879767
i really hope you are joking bc discussing any reason behind any punishment is an offence and will lead to a ban um
I really was joking. I made a post making fun of the survivors perspective of what's fair titled "Playing survivor sucks ass", and how much being a survivor sucks, how op the killers are, etc. and was getting good responses from people realizing it was a bait post for "April fools day", all in good fun/faith that people would realize it was satire/a parody of survivor complaints on this forum. Apparently though, enough people just didn't get the joke, and griped about it enough that @MandyTalk jailed me. Admittedly I had 1 previous offense/warning for a post 5 months ago, that I admit I'm ashamed of, but this post wasn't ever meant to be "mean spirited" in the same vein as that one, and just gave everyone who read it a good laugh today... sigh I guess I suck at humor so much that no one can tell if I'm being serious or not, which is a shame since not only does @Sluzzy get away with their bait posts almost weekly without getting jailed, but also, I thought everyone liked my last humorous post:
Sigh... sucks to be me. Don't think any less of me for trying to have fun here, but getting put down because my joke was seen as "mean spirited"... seriously? Jailed Over a joke? Sigh
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careful, I got jailed less than 30 mins ago for posting an April fools joke... you're likely next my friend, and yes, sadly I'm not joking!
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/315781/onryo-is-op-come-at-me-bro
I really like Onryo and think she's a good killer with a bunch of intricacies. However, I would say she's more an upper mid. She can't compete with Nurse and Blight.
You... didn't read the actual post, and are responding to the title alone, aren't you? It's ok, I was being purposely misleading in all honesty, but welcome you to read further please. There might be things you missed, and either agree or disagree with.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2871069#Comment_2871069
imo i think the whole like condemned system needs to be changed
As in let's say if a survivor reaches half condemned state, killer instinct would reveal them and on full they are exposed just so survivors actually do the tvs instead of not even caring and for the remote it should be :
Survivors spawn with tapes and already have half a bar of condemned which would put pressure on both survivors and killer to choose between which survivor she should follow, after making a copy u are cursed and cannot hear sadako come out of a tv for 60 seconds the further away you are from the tv u put the copy into, but also staying near that tv would alert the killer so you don't just camp it and wait out 60 seconds
I know that sound broken but again, its a red add-on it should be a bit broken cuz its rare
You just gave me a funny as hell and broken idea:
Remote control:
Survivors with 3 stacks of condemnation can be killed by your hand and killer instinct reveals them every time they gain a stack of condemnation for 4 seconds.
TV's power back on 50% faster after using projection.
TV's powered off by survivors stay so for 50% more time.
Any survivor carrying a VHS tape removes a stack of condemnation, instead of gaining one, for every TV they turn off.
Your Lullaby, and Projection sounds are silent.
Basically, you can Kill anyone who has 3 condemned stacks, but they can remove any condemnation stacks just by holding onto a tape and shutting off TV's, but Carrying a VHS tape still gives them a condemned stack every 30 seconds until they eventually copy it to remove 3 stacks. In other words, you see every survivors position when they gain a stack of condemnation, If you manage to teleport next to a survivor and give them their third stack, you can kill them on their next down, but if they get a VHS tape, they can both delay your insta kill or remove your ability to kill them entirely by copying the tape. Adding in the bonus sound reduction to make her more stealthy only seems fair in this case, makes the game far more exciting for all players, and would definitely earn this add-on its UR status in my book.
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Thank the deity's that be, that this isn't getting much attention or developing a following (whew), I think I, In my inebriated state, I actually advised survivors on how to counter my go-to girl killer in my first comment, and I don't want them to do that honestly... it would ruin her if everyone started countering her in the next week or so, and would piss me off to no end knowing I brought this upon myself.
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@Heartbound said:
I cleanse and if she has Corrupt Purge and I'm in her terror radius I hide by a pallet and drop it on her before she realizes I'm there. It knocks her out of her power and helps the player playing the Plague empty their bowels from the jumpscare.
It's pretty smooth.
Well, it would be, after all, the poor girls very sick and I don't think she has "Solid" bowel movements.
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Plagues greatest weakness is that the most powerful aspect of her power, Her Corrupt Purge, is almost entirely controlled by the survivors. At the beginning of any match, she starts with a total of 1 corrupt fountain, which gives her arguably the best ranged attack in the game. The reason I feel it's the best is because, while it has a limited 13 meter range, it's a constant chain of liquid pain that she can spray over a large area for a max of 1.8 seconds at a time with only 3 seconds of cooldown time before her next 0.3-1.8 second volley of death! The only thing that protects survivors from this attack is LoS (Line of Sight) and distance, and believe me, that's more than enough.
LoS blockers are EVERYWHERE, especially in indoor maps! Going with range may be more difficult, but again, Plague players often misjudge this, and their aim, favoring a more "Spray and Pray" attack style, so take advantage of distance whenever you can. Add in the fact that she has her Corrupt Power for only 1 minute at a time, and it becomes obvious what the best tactic against her should be: Don't cleanse, Rush gens.
Even if she goes after her 1 fountain, at best that delays the game for 1 minute while you and your team hide and wait it out, and at best for her, it = 2 downs and hooks, but overall, once that is gone she is reduced to an m1 killer that suffers all the disadvantages every m1 killer does. As long as you are a competent looper and can choose your looping routes carefully, you have nothing to worry about. Let her have her 60 seconds of OP attack power, but leave it at that.
Sure, she has better tracking against all sick survivors, and can 1 shot down all of you if she hits you, but there-in lies the problem for her... she has to basic attack you!
For survivors the choice is admittedly a hard one:
- Cleanse and give her the most powerful ranged attack in the game.
- Don't cleanse, be easier to track, and 1 shot downable.
The answer is pretty obvious honestly... The ranged attack is far harder to deal with, even if you are healthy, but being sick and easier to track makes her a standard m1 killer that you can loop for days! When Plague first came out, everyone refused to cleanse until the gates were powered because they had complete control over the best aspect of her power and could deny it at will. Currently, she always starts with that power available to her, but only for 1 minute (unless she brings certain add-ons), and as long as you and your team are able to just endure that 1 minute of time, and can loop decently... Staying Sick allows you to do gens and beat her at her own game much more often than giving her all the power she could ever ask for by frequently cleansing.
Which would you rather try to dodge: An instant down Basic attack limited to her m1, or a broken as hell, wide area, ranged attack that can be repeated every 3 seconds? It's honestly as simple as that.
I'm not saying that there aren't builds the Plague players can make that won't counter this strategy, but overall this will win you most matches against the average Plague player, as long as all of your teammates agree to it. Otherwise, if someone else cleanses, you might as well too, because, its better to face her ranged attack healthy than it is at 1 shot down despite the fact that gifting her the corrupt purge upgrade usually results in a 4k for her, you still have a better chance against corrupt purge while healthy and not injured/broken. Regardless, I haven't played a single Plague game wherein everyone cleansing resulted in a win for the survivors, and I main Plague equally as much as I do Doctor, when I play killer, so... Take my advice, and if not in SEF, try to convince others in the pre-game chat that if its a plague: don't cleanse, rush gens, because nothing pisses me off more than an anti-cleansing group (especially if its SWF).
EDIT:
Also, If you ever come across a Plague playing with Hex: Blood Favor... Drop all of your objectives immediately and cleanse that totem asap! I don't care how you or your team does it, but get it done! The reason I tell you this is because you have to realize that Plague is currently the only killer in the game that can drop a survivor from the Healthy state to the Injured state WITHOUT giving them a burst of speed to get away from her. Hell, even Nemesis can hit them with a tentacle strike that doesn't even injure them (it just infects them) but still gives them that burst of speed as if they'd been hit! Plague on the other hand, has this as her biggest strength: When she fully infects a survivor, no matter how close she is, they don't gain a burst of speed for entering the injured/broken state, which allows her to be literally right next to them when it happens, and follow up easily with her M1 attack and get a down. (also avoid getting cornered by her for the same reason... this should be obvious.)
Now... add in the fact that Hex: BF activates the moment you drop a health state, blocks every pallet for 32 meters, and well... you do the math on why this perk is broken as hell on her!
Just some friendly advice...
EDIT 2:
TL;DR:
DON'T CLEANSE is best strategy, but if your allies start cleansing, cleanse as well, and hope for the best. Use LoS Blockers as much as you can against her corrupt purge, cancel it with a pallet stun whenever you can, and again "hope for the best" because honestly her ranged attack is the best in the game, even better than Huntress's. Otherwise if you and your team refuse to cleanse, simply wait out/hide from her if she activates her 1 corrupt fountain for 1 minute, give up on having any stealth advantage while fully sick, loop her to the best of your abilities, and rush the gens. Only cleanse when the gates are powered, and above all: DESTROY Hex: Blood Favor Immediately if she has it, otherwise you're all screwed.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KJUUGYPXNXKW/it-27s-a-trap.jpg
Tbh most of the latest releases have been weak, dunno what's up with that
me neither. BTW, I was right in the middle of editing the post for an Alternate Version of Remote Control to make it more viable, so please, I would like your thoughts on that suggestion if you have the time. 😃
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@Kurri said:
That was a nice bait and switch.
@Aurelle said:
I have been bamboozled. But her addons do need work, though.
Bait and switch aside, I just wanted to open up conversation, make a suggestion to change something that's significantly underpowered for the level it's at, and get at least a few people to read it/debate me on it and my suggestions. It was a "dirty tactic", right up there with anything "Clickbait" oriented, but at the same time, I felt that if I didn't try for that, no one would give a damn. Sigh... such is the world we live in. I never outright meant to deceive anyone, I just meant to get attention... and sadly, Had to resort to this.
I'm not exactly ashamed of it, as it did give me some responses, but I do feel scummy for having to go down a peg in my integrity to accomplish these results, which in all honesty, while still valid, aren't what I wanted, but better than I would've had if I had simply been honest with the title.
Human nature sucks. We crave and pay more attention to the things that annoy or frustrate us, than we do over the things we inherently agree, or disagree with. I simply used that mentality as a ploy to get attention, and if you fell for it, I'm sorry, but at the same time, I'm happy that you actually took the time to read it. So... was I actually in the wrong regarding the title, here? Did the ends justify the means?
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Ok I'll bite because I always think back on this moment:
The era of DbD was about 2 patches after the Pigs release.
In this time, there was an extreme problem with killers able to hold survivors hostage by standing on the basement stairs, and I believe it was only a few months after Clown's release that this was finally addressed so that killers would lose their body blocking potential on those stairs after being there for x seconds, to prevent "hostage" situations.
I on the other hand wondered (at the time) what would happen if I used this mechanic to body block survivors with an RBT on their heads, while it was ticking down.
The result was crazy hard to accomplish, but also ridiculously malicious and rewarding...
At the start of the match/trial, I worked fast to both equip RBT's on multiple survivors and hook them in the basement, and because this team was super altruistic, Managed to get 3 in the basement with RBT's on their heads before2 gens popped. Then I hid myself near the basement, crouched to be in stealth mode, waited for the 4th survivor to come and rescue the others... and body blocked the stairs of the shack for almost about 2 minutes. The result was 3 survivors scrambling to the nearest boxes, trying to get their RBT's off, but ultimately dying to them, all the while I chased down and hooked the final survivor.
It was REALLY hard to accomplish this feat, but also insanely broken, and I both chuckled to myself while feeling an equal amount of shame because of how WRONG it was. Sigh, despite all this, it was still a "damn fun time" and due to its difficulty to pull off, I felt well earned. Broken as hell though, not gonna lie.
This is the only time I think I actually "Cheated" and was not simply being "Accused" of doing so. Other than that, I have a plethora of examples from survivors that simply don't understand the legal mechanics that the game provides via perks or powers, but insist that I couldn't of won without "cheating". For example: just run Mad Grit + Agitation, and if you have the ability to chat with survivor players post game, drink in their sweet salty tears as they rip into you for exploiting/hacking/cheating, etc. That never ceases to be funny.
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@GingerBeard said:
Nope, not even gonna give you the gratification of reading your post. Your title alone is enough to tell me you're just another entitled survivor main resorting to your go-to tactic of whining in order to make the game even more survivor sided than it already is. Onyro is Z tier at best, might as well just delete her from the game if you want to nerf her even more. Go back to Roblox LMAO baby survivor.
OK, now if I still have your attention, let me drop the sarcasm and actually talk about your idea. Yeah, the addon is just outstandingly bad and especially for an iri. Definitely agree with your first bullet point, its also how I thought it should function. The other two im undecided on, but at the very least it might actually make it worthy of being at its tier.
The question I want to know is why even bother making iri addons anymore. I thought they were supposed to either really strong or offer an alternate playstyle, possibly both. Seems the majority of them nowadays are neither.
The first 3 levels of add-on's, aside for the apparently mandatory brown "meme" add-on that gives bonus bp for putting up with it, seem to be devoted to enhancing the killers power by varying degrees. When It reaches the Very Rare (purple) level however, they either "super charge" an aspect of the killers power, or introduce some new uses for it. When it reaches the Ultra Rare Level however... that's when the gloves come off and survivors are made to "witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station (read: killer)!" The UR level isn't meant to simply enhance the killers power further than they have already been, and instead open new uses for them, even in ways that can completely change the killers Current and expected play style.
While My suggestion doesn't quite do that, it still opens up the opportunity for it when paired with some of the other add-ons. All the while, it still comes off as pretty lame tbh, but at least not nearly as useless as it currently is. I feel sad That I took the "Baby step" route when making my suggestion, but because of how scared the devs have proven themselves to be when it comes to killers and their perks/add-ons... I felt my changes were at least something they could see as "reasonable".
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@ImHexyAndINoed said:
Well actually Sadako is actual- wait remote control? POWERED TVS... [Badword]ing laser sights?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KF05RYIVZT88/cover2.jpg
In all honesty though I do like your change!
Side note to any one whom got baited. Op didn't masquerade...nor did they lie to get you too click...
They've just got afew TWIX's up they're sleeve...
(I'm so sorry I feel bad after that pun I'm not going to sign off this comment:()
I beg your pardon... I don't have any (name/brand) candy up my sleeve!
All I've got up my sleeves is my arms, and TWiXT them, myself... I dunno why you'd think I'd have candy... it's weird. 😋
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The Avatar of Gozer:
THE STAY PUFFED MARSHMELLOW MAN! (Make it happen!) Takes up 1/8th to 1/16th of the map (Depending upon map size), up to 4 stories tall, but moves slowly, and while his basic attacks deal a 16m AoE damage, his overall power belches flaming marshmallow goo over anything within his inner 45% degree cone of vision for a large 32 meter area that causes the dying state on those who aren't covered over 10 seconds. It takes 120 seconds to cooldown. Passively, While he walks around a map, his TR is always beating as if he's immediately in the range of attack. Also, Where his Marshmallow feet land, all survivors are put in the dying state (8 meter radius) When he attacks an area with his primary attack, any survivor within 24m of his attack zone takes a health state of damage, and, all lockers within 8m are destroyed. The Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man cannot spawn in indoor maps, and so, any indoor map offerings against him are useless. Multi Level Buildings in otherwise large maps can and will be leveled to the ground upon any strike against them, but never go any lower than that. All generators on the 2nd level structures respawn immediately on ground level, and Basement level structures remain intact. Stay Puffed cannot be stunned, or blinded, and any down pallets are instantly broken by all of his attacks if they are within range of them.
I know what you are thinking... "HOW, OH HOW, can we defeat such a killer?"
Whelp, here's how:
If all 4 survivors manage to reach all 4 active Proton Pack positions, and attack him all at once, they can bring him down. It takes all 4 packs striking 1 at a time to bring him down, but if all are discharged at the same time, they reduce his overall health by half, however, if all 4 survivors cross the streams while attacking him, they will bring him down from full health within 2 seconds and reveal Gozer the Gozarian.
Gozer the Gozarian is a nimble, little, survivor sized minx whose gender is undetermined, but that doesn't matter, the fact is that they are fast to take down opponents, and out to kill all who oppose them! With a base movement speed of 4.2 m/s, Gozer has both a melee and ranged attack options: The ranged attack is lightning that stops Gozer at a fixed point for 2.5 seconds, but every survivor within 24 meters in font of their inner 30 degree cone of vision loses 1 health state, if not covered by the environment. Gozer can also perform a leap action, and a strike action otherwise. Directly striking a survivor with your claws causes the dying state, and the leap action can send Gozer up to 32 meters in any direction they choose within .2-1.6 seconds depending upon distance, with a recovery time of 1.6 seconds upon landing, and a cooldown time of 30 seconds.
Regardless of the form you are in, Press Space to summon Ghosts to hook a survivor in the dying state upon the nearest hook, this cannot be body blocked by other survivors, and deals no damage to survivor who try.
Perks:
Death's Vigor: Whenever a survivor successfully stuns you, you gain a +.5/1/1.5 to movement speed, and a .5/1/1.5 second reduction in stun time, up to a maximum of 12 stacks. 1 stack is lost per hook state you gain.
Are you ready to Die?: You become obsessed with 1 survivor. When you Hook your obsession the first time, their hook state progresses 15/20/25% faster. Anyone who unhooks your Obsession becomes your Obsession the next time they successfully escape your chase.
Selenium Construct: The Pallets of the realm are much heavier, and harder to use. Pallets now take .2/.4/.6 seconds longer for a survivor to drop and for you to destroy.
The Survivor is obviously Ray Stantz. Is he a God? Yes!, and He brings 3 perks:
Ectoplasmic Residue: This slimy substance holds great research potential for those who know how to identify and track it. Killers now leave marks upon the land Whenever they interact objects that lingers for up to 5/10/15 seconds. Contacting Killers markings gives you aura reading on the killer for 4 seconds. This Perk deactivates any time you are affected by the Oblivious status.
P.K.E. Meter: A fancy device only the best minds in paranormal technology could create. When looking in the direction of a killer within your inner 10/20/30 degree cone of vision for up to 24 meters, P.K.E. activates with varying levels of intensity. It becomes most intense when the killer is in the exact center of your vision and less than 20 meters from you, and less intense when they are either further away or when they are undetectable. The Oblivious status effect doesn't affect this perk.
GET HER!: A bums rush tactic that might've worked if Ray's colleagues didn't get scared. After spending 3/2/1 seconds within a killers terror radius without being seen, Press Run to rush out at a killer within 8 meters of you at 150% Movement speed, and if you contact them, you will stun them for 3 seconds. This attack has a cooldown of 120 seconds, and causes exhaustion for 40 seconds.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868186#Comment_2868186
Even without carrying the tape just double the condemned gain I'd love that.
Again, Fair Point. I believe that you and I are on the same page at least in regards to the fact that an Ultra Rare add-on should at least provide something that the survivors would consider OP, but not something that they can't work around.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868184#Comment_2868184
I think the TVS shouldn't turn of after she teleports through them and only when the survivor shuts them down for 60 seconds.
Also they should remove her lullaby,I think this will be enough to make her a decent stealth killer that's not too oppresive.
The lullaby is overkill... Seriously, if they intended her to be a "stealth killer" then why give survivors 24 meters of warning that she's in their area? FFS, I thought they actually learned from the horrible Ghost Face PTB debacle, wherein he had a 24 meter directionally audible "ghostly wind" sound while he was within his Night Shroud mode... That got torn to pieces by the community, and for damn good reason. It's such a shame that they are "bringing it back" with a new and licensed killer, with the only saving grace being that it's onmni-directional, when she should be every bit as terrifying as and unpredictable as her cinematic representation.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868176#Comment_2868176
I feel like we come from very different experiences with Sadako. I've actually been getting semi-consistent condemned kills provided I whack on Ring Drawing - it's shockingly effective at building condemned stacks fast, and if you can combo it with BBQ you can prevent them doing a tape for quite a while.
Which is probably why I'm not for the idea- because it happens quite a lot to me, that I can get condemned kills, so I don't really want it spiralling out of control (bc I could do a lot with that part of the addon)
I'd be more than happy with removing that final aspect and buffing that other two even further. Hell it even increases the range at which Survivors can be condemned to make it more of a threat idk. But I'd also just like some basekit changes too which make condemned actually kinda threatening (like making it take longer to put the tape into the TV so people can't do it mid chase, increasing speed boost out of manifesting, etc).
Fair point, how about, instead of increasing the range, survivors get 2 stacks of condemnation when within 16 meters of a TV she Projects to While they are carrying a VHS tape?
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868162#Comment_2868162
I agree Sadako has strong things going for her as well,such as completely denying bodyblocking and being short which helps a lot in some loops.
In my experience, It only helps in the endgame when multiple teammates are trying to body block an injured survivor you're trying to down, and even then, only IF they aren't less than 1m away from them. Otherwise It doesn't help her at all when attempting a hook, nor does it help when pursuing an injured survivor running from a gen (as most other survivors not on in SWF or on VOIP won't go to help them).
Honestly to me, the only things she has that are strong are her potential map pressure (at a high time cost for using it), and her semi-phased state after manifesting (because she's the only "Stealth" and m1 ranged killer with a lullaby radius, and everything she does: every interaction, attack, vault, break or any usage of her power... is directionally audible to survivors) which can be used for some, albeit random, misdirection when used against survivors.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
I'd argue that the final effect is a bit much. An addon shouldn't change her that much (and people really dislike Tombstone Myers because of this. While it wouldn't be as good as tombstone, because condemned is still terrible, I'd much prefer basekit buffs than making her addon change her basekit in this way and that's the only way to ever make condemned a minor threat
I respect you on this (as well as a forum poster, and person), but can't agree with you that it's "a bit much", because unlike Shape, she has 2 other conditions to make it work: Fully condemned, and Carrying a VHS Tape. Ever since she was released live, I've only encountered a total of maybe 3 survivors that have become fully condemned, and surprise, if you read my "Ultimate strategy to defeat Onryo" Post:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/313948/the-ultimate-counter-to-the-onryo#latest
You'd know how abusable this aspect of her Condemnation power really is.
IN My Opinion, unless this part of her power is changed... like, at all in a way that makes it more of a threat that is no longer completely survivor controlled, then my suggested changes aren't going to make it broken in any way.
Buffs to her base kit? ugh... THAT is what the common-RARE quality add-ons are for, whereas the Very Rare are meant to super charge or introduce new ideas/aspects of a killers power, and the Ultra Rare should be Broken/OP, but not so much that they = an easy win against the decent-best survivors. I mean that's why they're Ultra Rare, that's their purpose, design, and intention... isn't it? Add-on's like Remote Control, in their current iteration don't even deserve this position and come across as laughably bad/condescending.
I like you, and don't want to argue with you too much, but considering the details of my side of the argument, and the overall weakness of this add-on, I honestly think I've just been a little too lenient in my suggested changes, don't you?
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@Adaez said:
Sadako is as op as territorial imperative as a perk.
Now, now: Territorial Imperative doesn't grant you the option to immediately teleport to the basement. Which, now that I think about it, It honestly should, even if the teleport takes 3 seconds to do, that's still at least 2 seconds behind when the survivor enters it, and could lead to some excellent plays on both sides an-* AHEM * I digress.
What, I guess, I'm pointing out is that she's actually better than the current iteration of Territorial Imperative... but not by much. If I were to compare her to a perk, it'd be Surge/Jolt: Too many requirements to get it to work, meager map pressure/rewards, not enough benefit, and above all... not at all universal to killer players who don't completely focus on it!
Sadly, not many people listen to me, support, or appreciate my ideas.
Sigh... to quote an old song, "I've tried so hard, and gone so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter" (Linkin Park, In The End) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVTXPUF4Oz4
Ignore the video, listen to the lyrics, and tell me this doesn't apply to the current DBD Killer player mentality.
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@Mr_Madness said:
I must be tired cause I thought OP meant Original Poster and was highly confused.
Yes, you're Tired, because in the context OP meant "Over Powered" which I, as the "Original Poster" am not, but I can understand the confusion... wait... ummm... no I can't because that would mean that you either thought that the Onryo was posting this message on the forums (which TBH, would make for a fantastic breath of fresh air sequel to the original movie) or you though I am Sadako, the Onryo! In which case I'm flattered, but at the same time, just gonna say: 7 days
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@Heartbound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868124#Comment_2868124
Nah I agree with what you posted, I just got the funpost in my head and had to make it. I don't know why Demogorgon lets you reveal all survivors while you're traveling and Sadako gets such a short aura reading with a bunch of if/or. Just because you see a survivor doesn't mean you can catch them.
I know Sadako just came out but while I really enjoy her, I think she could definitely use something in chase. I'd even say the remote control could be used to manually turn on a TV. It's a remote control. You know?
OOOOOH, that's actually a good idea, one wherein if she walks within 16m of a powered down TV, or If a Survivor with a VHS tape does, it turns on! Man I wish I had thought of that BEFORE I made this post... you're brilliant!
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@Heartbound said:
*blows up the generator and hides in the nearby bushes*
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6CBDMEKZAT54/iwasbored.png
Apparently, you didn't even read my suggested change... that's just awful. WTAF man. 😘
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@IronKnight55 said:
Damn! The bait worked...
Just because it worked, doesn't mean it's a bad thing. C'mon, take off your shoes, sit down, look at what we have to offer, and enjoy yourself for a while...
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
That isn't ever her worst Add-on. Videotape Copy takes that spot
That's a meme/BP gain add-on, they're supposed to be bad! Almost all killers have them, they're annoying as hell to have in your blood webs, obviously more survivor favored as they purposely nerf your power, and the only reason anyone might use them is for the pathetic BP bonuses! Ultra-rare Perks, on the other hand, are supposed to give the killer a massive, and even game/game play changing advantages. SO yeah, it's NOT her worst perk, but the problem is that unlike VTC, which is by design /BAD, Remote Control is supposed to be one of her BEST!
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I read anyway, looks good but aura reading is so strong at DbD. So revealing survivor's aura indefinitely looks broken.
It only reveals the aura indefinitely as long as they are still holding onto a VHS tape... In all honesty, do you even know anyone who would hold onto one for longer than 20 seconds? even freaking noobs figure out how bad of an idea it is after their first 2 games against her. Otherwise it's only revealing the auras of those who have a condemnation stack and are within 16 meters of a TV. TO me, this doesn't seem broken.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
This is trap, i will not come to you.
I know you trapped everywhere. Not trusting you.
I'm not Hag or Trapper, But if their tactics can at least make people "stop and smell the roses", then I'm not against using them!
Read it, c'mon, you know you wanna... I'll be your best friend... Seriously, ask me a favor, and as long as I agree to your point on it, I'll promote it with you. (Devil on your shoulder voice) Come on, there's got to be some way, you and I, can reach an "understanding"...
EDIT: Wait... when Have I actually "Trapped" anyone in these forums before this post? TBH, I think this is my first attempt at it.
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COME AT ME BRO!
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@MissBehavingX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868043#Comment_2868043
again if you would've told me that a few months ago i would've agreed, but i see way more variety in the perks i see from my random teammates than the killers these days
I only counter this argument with a simple question... What choice do they have?
"A few months ago"? Even then there wasn't much a killer could do to slow down the survivors gen progression speeds, and now it's even worse. The bottom line I'm getting at is that While I'd LOVE to make a full ATTACK POWER build that forces survivors to abandon objectives in order to keep up with their losses, the truth is that they have gained far more "2nd chance" and "Gen Speed" advantages over the killers ability to counter them other than to slow down the survivors primary objective. Basically, Killers are FORCED into this position, but funny enough, survivors aren't... they just choose their meta because it's almost always guaranteed a win. I can't lie, Hex Pain Resonance was a GOD SEND For killers, but even while choosing their "Slow Down" meta doesn't guarantee a win, at least it gives them a decent chance at one.
TBF, If a survivor team came in with full non-meta builds against me now, I'd most definitely lose... because I've been conditioned to expect what they normally bring in. In a way, I feel that this is also the sole reason I do so well as Plague... Because survivors these days just don't know how to effectively play against her, especially when they rely on CoH, seriously, I'm having a ball against survivors as Plague now more than I ever did before! That's not me bragging as much as it's just acknowledging how funny things have changed so much in her favor, due to the most recent survivor buffs.
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@lauraa said:
i have lots of fun with bbq, agitation, starstruck pain res as well as lethal pursuer, bbq, no way out and NOED. Yeah ok, BBQ might be old hat, but it's just too useful for me to take off. I can't help it.
also, if you're still leveling killers/survivors in the game, that bonus BP is fantastic! Hell, Most of the time I equip it, I don't even care about the information side, just as long as I get all 4 stacks of that delicious BBQ&C bonus BP!
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Killer meta have more perks than survivors.
Survivor meta: IW, DH, DS, SB, UB, CoH
Killer meta: Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, PR, DMS, Pop, BBQ, Corrupt, Deadlock, Pentimento, Plaything etc.
For me survivor meta more boring. Because always same perks.
IKR? Where's the variety? Gimme a good survivor with Spine Chill, Alert, Botany Knowledge, and Lucky Break any day, and It will both be nothing I expected, and far more effective in throwing me off than any of the current "cookie cutter" survivors I face at mid-high sbmm.
The only difference between the survivors meta vs. the killers meta is simple: Survivors only go after anything that gives them multiple chances against the killer, and killers only go after anything that can buy them more time against a "gen rush" so they can actually get a few hooks in if not a kill or 2 by the endgame. Survivors objective is well, objective based, but the killers objective is entirely time based. The more time the killer saves = the more chance they have to complete their objective. The more time the survivors waste for the killer = the faster they complete their objectives.
Is it any wonder at all WHY the killers "Meta" is based solely around information and game delaying perks? More than that, does OP honestly think for a second that the survivors meta isn't "BORING" for the killers?
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Modern times call for modern killers, no matter HOW absurd or flamboyant they are. He came from a culture that glorified him for being deviant, daring, and all the while someone female/homosexual fans would coo over, and he used that to his advantage in order to murder them. While he is over the top, In all honesty, his culture that glorified his image and songs, and also enabled him to feel a sense of power over others as if he were untouchable, and could get away with anything he wanted to. He's as much a product of the system that made him famous, as he is for the deeds that made him infamous. IMO, He's fine... because as Wednesday Addams once said when asked about what her costume for Halloween was, in which she wore the same old clothes she normally wears, "This is my costume. I'm a Homicidal Maniac, they look just like everyone else."
The only difference between Trickster and Wednesday Addams is that, He doesn't look like everyone else, he looks like someone people admire, worship, fawn over, and even want to fall in love with or fantasize about... because he's Famous! What more of a power trip do you need for a "Homicidal Maniac" before they become scary?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2860937#Comment_2860937
It's not hard to do. I do it sometimes as killer, even when it turns out none of the survivors had it. It can stop them from getting that 6% boost for a few more seconds and finishing the gen in your face.
no, it's not hard to do, but when you are playing Billy, Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Freddy, Shape or Ghost Face... you Literally have to look in the direction of your opponents in order to use your power effectively and in the case of Shape or GF, to use the stalking ability at all! Reducing the range from the obscene 36 meters that the survivors have to 24 isn't that hard of an ask to make Spine Chill more balanced.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2858803#Comment_2858803
I used to think Adrenaline was OP. It's just an annoying perk, and potentially second chance/win more. Not as applicable as Dead Hard or Unbreakable though, because all of the gens actually have to be done, so I let it slide.
Adrenaline is fine as is. Let me be clear on this: The condition for it's activation relies entirely on the survivor team completing all of their primary objectives, and such are rewarded for it by being granted an extra health state and/or momentary burst of movement speed, which in this game can be either the thing that saves you in the endgame, or loses you the game if activated too early. Dead Hard, unbreakable, DS, hell, even Soul Guard can be used to give survivors 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th chances of escape especially in the endgame. TBH, I once suggested that many of these perks be nerfed in that they become disabled when the gates are powered at the endgame in order to prevent the killer "No Win" scenario... aka, nothing the killer does will result in a kill or win regardless of their build, if the game reaches the point wherein the gates are powered/opened. Sadly My suggestion was laughed off and bemoaned by the entire survivor main community.
I've grown a bit since then, and take into account both sides viewpoint, and no longer begrudge either side for bringing in perks that give them any advantage in the endgame.
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@Ravakahr said:
Spine chill is fine the way it is. Get better at the game get rank 1 killer and survivor and you quickly realise its NOT OP and you'll be crying you didn't have DS or UB.
Whats next nerf adrenaline? TO OP?
@danielmaster87 said:
From one extreme to another. No, it doesn't need a nerf. It's the 1 stealth detection perk, because Premonition is a joke.
36 meters, traveling at 4.6m/s = 7.8 seconds of warning to a survivor, regardless of if the killer is undetectable or not.
24 meters, traveling at 4.6m/s = 5.2 seconds worth of warning to a survivor, regardless of if the killer is undetectable or not.
on average, if the survivor starts running away from their position after 1 second of Spine chill being active, they can run away for 6.8 seconds, or a total of 27.2 meters from their position when it activated at its current 36m distance.
If the range was reduced to 24 meters, on the other hand, they gain 20.8 meters of distance... only 7 meters less.
This suggested change doesn't break the perk, it barely balances it. All it does is give survivors 2.6 seconds of less warning time, and allow killers like Myers and Ghost Face to Stalk them, as long as they have an Unobstructed view of the survivor and are more than 24 meters away. Currently those 2 killers can't even manage that against anyone with Spine Chill, because their max stalk range is 32 meters, which is 4m lower than spine chill will detect them, and even worse... GOOD LUCK finding an unobstructed 32 meters of clear vision on a survivor, hell, finding 16 meters of unobstructed vision is hard enough. I 'm Obviously being LENIENT in my suggestion to balance this perk, and yet you guys still are against this... I just can't, can I?
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@ItsJesseFFS said:
I think Spine Chill is perfectly fine where it's at now. I will only compromise it's nerf when Ghostface' reveal mechanic is fixed and his insta-stalk addons removed.
And what about Myers? Take a moment to realize how it hard counters killers like ghost face and Myers who literally have to look directly at their victims and stalk them in order to get any usage from their power. Now add in the fact that this doesn't just hurt them, but all killers 4 meters before survivors even hear their terror radius, by giving survivors an excessive early warning that the killer is headed their way, while also giving them bonuses to their action speeds. I believe reducing the range to 20-24 meters from 36 is at best a simple compromise in all honesty, but obviously you don't, which says more about your bias towards it's currently broken nature, as well as your insistence keep it as is. Your only complaint is that GF has a bad reveal mechanic, and thus "This shouldn't get balanced until GF's Reveal mechanic is"... grow up. Admittedly GF's reveal mechanic SHOULD be better, and I've made previous posts about changing it from a 2d model to a 3d "Flashlight emanating from survivors heads" one to better balance/fix this, but the devs are pretty lazy, so that suggestion is likely to never be implemented, but even if it was, I doubt you would still think that my suggested balance change to Spine Chill would be justified, and that makes me a "sad panda" (southpark reference).
You called me "Dumb" while obviously not even reading my post. So I asked that you stop being "Dumb" first before engaging in the conversation. It was a simple jab at you for being ignorant, with the intention of getting a more profound response, which sadly, hasn't happened yet, but we'll get there eventually, I believe in you!
@Remohir said:
If you can hear the terror radious, why do you need spine chill? That perk allow you to make a move before the killer comes. Once you are on the terror radious, the killer might be coming while looking away so you don't get anything from it, which is the workaround already suggested.
Someone suggested that it shouldn't work when you are oblivious, which is a great idea. Plus maybe nerf some of the buffs it gives to the survivor.
Hearing a Terror Radius is one thing, knowing that the killer is looking in your direction while you hear it is another piece of information entirely, and I'm certain you know that, but are purposely feigning ignorance! That so called "work around" that's been suggested? I've already explained why that BS time and time again both in the original post and in follow up comments, so please read those since I'm so VERY tired of repeating myself. I do like the idea of it being defeated by Oblivious, since it's meant to defeat Undetectable, and having it defeat both is overkill tbh, but that alone is not enough in all honesty. Considering it's overall POWER regarding information and the advantages it provides to survivors, I feel that a simple, little, reduction in it's radius is a small ask on my part.
@HexDaddyissues said:
killer mains have an issue with every single g dang survivor perk.
does anyone even use spine chill anymore? if spinechill needs a nerf, barbeque and chili does too
Out of all the games I've played for the past 2 weeks (ever since Onryo/Sadako was released) There has only been maybe 5 games wherein I didn't encounter Spine Chill. Which is very sad honestly since equipping it for the sole purpose of countering Onryo is stupid as hell, because she emanates a "Lullaby" radius while de-manifested (in stealth), meaning that she's LITTERALLY the noisiest "stealth" killer in the damn game! In all honesty, this design decision means that she can't even be considered a Stealth killer IMO, so it's not even necessary. Regardless, Spine Chill has seen a MASSIVE increase in usage amongst survivors, and whether or not Onryo is to blame for this, Survivors have noticed how OP it is against all killers, and are making it a permanent addition to their builds. It's basically kryptonite to Myers and Ghost Face, as well as a major pain for any killer, stealth or not. All I'm asking for is a simple balance change by reducing its radius of effect from the grotesquely large 36 meters to 20 at minimum or 24 at max. Does that really scream to you that it would make it useless?
As for BBQ and Chili... that's actually already a very balanced perk. The aura reveal doesn't affect anyone within 40 meters of the hook or in a locker, and other than that, it just provides the killer with bonus BP for getting 4 hooks, so what the hell do you want? You want it's aura reading range doubled or removed perhaps? or maybe you want it to require 8 hooks to give the killers their bonus BP? I seriously don't understand how you can hate on BBQ&C which is far better balanced, over the much less balanced and currently OP Spine Chill... I just don't get your reasoning.
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@mr7ba_bk_ said:
No, It doesn't need a nerf, stop being dumb
You first.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857035#Comment_2857035
That would make sense, but strikes me as too granular a change for BHVR. They generally don't like doing that sort of thing with survivor perks (DS took...years to change like this).
Not to mention, @VikingDragonXii 's suggestion also wouldn't help against any normal killer without stealth and their static 32 meter terror radius. With the change I've suggested, even if survivors hear the TR, they won't know if the killer is headed their way until the killer is within 20-24 meters of them. As it is right now, survivors get over 7.8 seconds warning total, and 1.15 seconds that the killer is headed towards them before the terror radius is even heard.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856926#Comment_2856926
The issue isn't that it 'counters' stealth killers. If it was a soft counter you could play around, that would be one thing.
The issue is that it completely breaks two killers in half, in a way that there is literally no counterplay for. Myers or worse, Ghostface into a Spinechill basically makes you into an M1 killer. It's not good design.
If this perk were made to not function when the killer is Undetectable would still retain it's core purpose as an early warning system that has counterplay, without causing certain killers to basically lose at the selection screen.
Blind hard-counters are never good design.
If it were reduced in range to 20-24 meters, Both Myers, and GF could potentially still stalk a survivor from beyond that range. As it is right now though, that's simply impossible for them.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
Fire up to only 5%? seriously you could make it 8% and it still wouldn’t be a meta perk.
Baby steps man, baby steps... Obviously it would be much better if it gained 8% per stack, but then it would be overpowered as of 3 gens done when paired with Brutal Strength and Bamboozle, but the devs know that! 5% isn't unreasonable even when paired with those perks, and in-fact makes the perk more balanced overall. They're just too scared about the idea that it might make it OP, which is laughable to be honest.
I figured a simple 1% change would make all the difference, and might be something that the devs would consider.
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AWW MAN! this got moved to the feedback forum? NO ONES GONNA SEE IT HERE ASIDE FROM THOSE WHO ALREADY RESPONDED! LAME!
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856709#Comment_2856709
This.
I'm totally fine with this perk in general, but it should not hard counter Ghostface and Myers to the extent it does.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856712#Comment_2856712
When your only response is a strawman, this generally means you concede the point.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856747#Comment_2856747
For the most part, yeah.
For Myers and especially Ghostface, who rely on staring at survivors from a stealthed position, not so much. It's never nice having your entire kit blind countered by a single perk.
I like you! (said in a gir voice. Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cEBkEigNi4 )
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@RYANGUNSLINGER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856904#Comment_2856904
I know I i even said that the directionless was the only point I had for it's defense, I feel like it could be better if they maybe droped the distance to 15 meter at its max.
I feel like I might be biased in favor of spine chill since I used to use it a lot back when i started playing but yeah I can definitely see how it's a problem.
Definitely didn't mean it as a SpIne ChIll oK leave it AS is type of comment
So then... you not only agree with my change, you also want to reduce it by 5 meters at the maximum? I'm sorry, your original response and following rebuttal of my response, made me feel like you were on the attack and were "Completely against" it. At this moment it feels like you are FOR my suggestion, but I can't say I've won you over, which is fair, as I endorse creative criticism, So by all mean tell me/let me have it: How does my suggested nerf/change negatively affect the game?
If it does affect it positively, and you can admit that, then acknowledge it and state why. I'm not trying to be a dick here and harass you with "I told you so!" antics, I'm a much better person than that. I have taken all of your messages with considerable consideration, and debated them against you for my end of the argument, but I never take any creative criticism without acknowledging it, and you have given me some insight for why people may be opposed to it, which will likely mean that I'll have to change it (hopefully for the better), and that's always what I've wanted from this community: good, strong, creative criticism.
I have faith in you, and where your heart is on this matter, but I still stand with my own beliefs, and have to hope that others can agree with them.
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@LiquidPhat said:
You're right, and survivors should be replaced with bots and killers should get a juicebox at the end of each round with a pat on the back.
I upvoted your comment because I can literally feel the sarcasm without the aid of a /s (sarcasm) mark. While it's funny and deserves it's votes, it can also be said for survivor side. "Killers shouldn't be players, and replaced with bots, so everyone can have fun against easy, medium, difficult, hard, and Nightmare killers to prove their worth!"
I bet that sounds like a fun game to you, but unfortunately, this exists as a multiplayer game, and if you can't stand the heat, get out of the damn kitchen! Go play something that doesn't really challenge you with its AI, Like Legend of Zelda BotW, Resident Evil (take your pick), or Pokemon Go! ( at least you get some exercise with that one).
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@RYANGUNSLINGER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856888#Comment_2856888
I am completely against it on the basis of its only effective against ghostface/Myers and pig and still the range and it beng directionless are the best points I have for it to remain the same.
Though the vault speed buff could go Though i hate that part specifically even when I used to use when I play survivor
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Just based on the idea that it detects a killers approach "directionless" doesn't mean that the killer has any advantage when the survivor knows they are approaching! And from 36 meters, which is 4 meters beyond any killers TR, Stealth or Not, is Absurd! Not to mention that the only way the killer can avoid it is to somehow always predict that the survivors have it, and always keep each destination in the far left or right of their screen, even while chasing in order to prevent the vaulting advantage... I lost my train of thought because of how ridiculous of a requirement that is. The point I'm making is that it's current function is OP, and I'm having a really hard time as to why you, an admitted "Ghost Face" main, are so opposed to the idea of making it more balanced.
Dude... I'm not talking out of my ass here... This has long needed to be addressed, because it's an old perk that needs some modernizing for the current game. I just don't understand how you think that, as a Ghost Face player, it's fine as is. Honestly I'm Flabbergasted! (which is kind of fun because I never get to use that word).
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@RYANGUNSLINGER said:
As someone who actively mains Ghostface
No it doesn't it only says when I'm looking at you not from where or how far away and besides who's to say I'm not chasing a teammate or behind you right now
especially when crab walking to a gen exists and also just hold stalk and whip the cam back and forth at a reasonable pace on no one knows your on them ready to down them
Wait, I'm confused (please use commas)... Are you for or against this nerf/change Idea? Yes, it never tells a survivor the Direction the killer is approaching, but if it activates at all, all a survivor has to do is walk somewhere nearby, hide, and hope the killer doesn't look in their direction. For GF, he does have an advantage in that "IF" a survivor looks at him while he's in stealth, he gets a directional visual and audio aid, and even if they don't, if he uses his stalking power, he can highlight a survivor nearby, but, that's still highly dependent on the killer using their wits, and the survivor being smart enough not to look at him. As a Ghost Face player, I actually thought this idea/change would be something you agree with because it makes it slightly harder for survivors to know when you're coming for them, and gives them less time to hide when it activates.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856772#Comment_2856772
Yeah I read it and told you my opinion. A good killer knows to look away from the area they're going to or risk Spine Chill which isn't a META perk and really isn't that popular among the non-META builds.
Because it's not meta (which honestly, considering it's crazy OP nature should be), And because it never gives a killer any notification that it's being used against them, I still feel this change is justified. For experienced killers detecting it is a given, but for new killers it's kyptonite! There's literally no way they know a survivor has it, until they experience it enough that they can figure it out, but on average a decent killer can figure it out only after 3x the survivor completely avoids them, how is that balanced?! Even then Saying killers only have to look "slightly away" from their destination, is laughable when it means that, a killer who has already figured out that the survivor is using it, has to keep their destination in the far left or far right of their screen. This is bad enough for stealth killers, but to expect this from every killer is nuts!
Blight for example has no time or ability to just "Look away" from where he's going, and while 36 meters against him seems fair because he can cover the distance so rapidly, it's really not. I could go into the math about it, but basically he covers 36 meters in distance in 7 seconds, and it only takes a survivor .1 second to run or sprint burst away from their position. My point being that even if they had less warning at 24 meters, they'd STILL Have an advantage, just not as an obscenely large of one.
I hope you also read my Edit of the post wherein I created a killer version of this perk to match it's power and influence, and hope you agree that either this nerf needs to happen, or "Spine Tingle" needs to be added to the universal killer perk pool.