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Unfortunately, this is an idea that would have to have been implemented waaaaaaay earlier in the game's lifespan. At this point, it's far too late to try and implement.
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@domai36 said:
It's an extremely simple way to circumvent the DC penalty and it renders dcing useless, thus trivializing the entire point of the DC system - so it's logical why the OP would be against it, it's inconsistent.
I think the problem is that the solution is not simple to implement. You can either alter it to make it try to detect an intentional suicide which could either give a) false positives or b) still get abused once people figure out how to trick it - OR - change the entire system so suicides on hook are no longer possible at all.
While I don't think option B is as bad as it first sounds, it's a really big change and I don't think it's one the developers are keen on making without putting some serious time and effort into it. Because of this, it could be awhile before we see any changes.
I mean, the most recent survey suggested the idea of changing the current struggle mechanic to that of Pyramid Head's cages, which is something.
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@Freki said:
@TAG New players ain't gonna one-hook themselves one in every three games (to use the previous number I gave as an example). I'm not worried that new players would do that so often that I'd think they should be punished.
THAT is sooo funny... when i've seen it happen 5 games in a row! that ended up being 5 our of 7 games before they called it quits... that's more than your 33%. still if you throw out a high number and the actual number is much less than than, won't that be the same problem as the old disconnect system of we'll notice it and people said the threshhold was set too high? great idea.. leave the game development to the professionals.
@TAG you want to punish people and force them to play a game they don't want so they'll just dc, it's quicker and easier and end up moving on to a new game... yea great way to kill the player base and kill the game.
I am done with you, I wish I could ignore you but I don't have that luxury, you have no idea about what you talk about and you throw out numbers that make no sense!
Sounds like the person who did it 5 games in a row should be penalized to me.
Hey, Killers can't leave a game without DCing, so there's already precedent in the game. May as well extend that to Survivors for consistency.
You're giving me scenarios that make no sense, so y'know, pot calling kettle black and all.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503544#Comment_1503544
first of all i asked if you've even taken care of children, and you replied to the post ignoring the question so no i do not accept your reasoning "I am replying to so many here" you actively IGNORED it.
I have experienced <10% of my games having first hook intentional deaths, I have been watching Mclean's stream today and he has had NONE, I have not seen any in his previous streams, my friends that stream don't have a great many first hook deaths like you described. please tell me you have an official source that says 33% of all games have this happen, because I'm pretty damn sure that it does not exist. you personall may see that, but that is just random luck.
"New players will quickly that they have to struggle or they will die, which is good enough. BHVR recently added visual changes to the self-unhooking process to highlight the fact that it is a very risky idea and not something that should be done lightly."
I am laughing, you are telling new players GET GUD fast or your will get temp bans without a worry because we don't want you to TRY to get off the hook because the option is there. YES they changed it, but it was not because people were doing it to die on first hook but to make it obvious what you are doing sure, but not to tell people DONT DO IT! more like DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK! this does not mean it is intended to do anything more than tell the player something bad can happen.
you may be unconvinced they would do it frequently enough. I'm not convinced this is such the big issue you think it is. get off your high horse and play the game hook deaths or no! you are inconsequential but I love being able to shut your arguments down so others can see how minor and petty they are.
Yeah, I have taken care of children. It's not relevant, but I have. That satisfy your question?
I didn't say that 33% of all games have this happen. You asked me what is too often, and I said that deliberately one-hooking yourself in ~33% of your games is doing it too often.
New players ain't gonna one-hook themselves one in every three games (to use the previous number I gave as an example). I'm not worried that new players would do that so often that I'd think they should be punished.
I will continue playing the game, and I will continue to report people who I believe purposefully lose the game.
@SurviveByDaylight said:
people are going to find a way to DC any way that they can. So seriously, quit complaining about it. To be honest the struggle phase needs to be adjusted to Skill Checks anyways. Because it’s not always the survivors fault.
If you punish people for DCing, and you punish people for deliberately letting themselves die on first-hook early into the game, what other options do they have? Pretending to play badly so the Killer can catch them easy so you can't accuse them of losing on purpose? At that point, I'd say mission accomplished.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503480#Comment_1503480
i'm sorry, if this was done out of match functionality then i'd be all for it to be penalized. but you're asking for them to "check the frequency of someone doing something that is within the parameters of in match functionality and penalize them for doing it. this is not something anyone wants. if you want this go directly to behavior and suggest it, don't put it on the general boards. putting it here may get it noticed but it's whining because you don't like it. hell it's whining to keep talking about how bad disconnects are.
ALSO when dc penalties came in the first time, it was de-cried that there are a rash of deaths on first hook. BEHAVIOR has even come out and replied to this directly saying that while there was a small uptick in deaths on first hook there was not something that would make it concerning for the health of the game. this was stated several times and you are one of the people they told this too, and you didn't believe it then, now you are back de-crying this once again. STOP, just STOP.... I have answered each and everyone of your questions, I have proven to you that there are problems, and because you do not know much about children you are even ignoring that question of mine.... you want to believe you know the ins and outs of things. you think you have the answer, but you do not. please tell me what is too often. please tell me you know how many new players will understand that they HAVE to struggle or they will get temp banned for not doing it. sounds like a great idea....... i know 10 new players that just started two weeks ago, and they still even after I told them it's not the best to struggle when they have friends or teamers that are going to get them, still try to get off and then forget to struggle because they are distracted by something else.
You are not getting anywhere and even if you get 10 people to agree here on the forums they are but 10 of 60000 active players and do not come even close to one tenth of a percent of the players. of those 10 new players, they have each been on their own as well and asked me why are all these people disconnecting from the match? I tell them because they are selfish people, and well they don't care about anything but their own fun and will dc if you don't recover, if you die on hook, if the killer shakes their head, etc. and these new players said wow, I was thinking it was me! I'll stop playing! I told them no don't it's not them. and here you want to cause new players even more confusion? heck it's bad enough that TRU got hacked again and he's a lifetime player yet these newbies don't know the game like you or I do!
I am de-crying it because it can actively ruin a match similar to how a DC can ruin a match and can basically be used as an alternative to DCIng.
I support punishing excessive early game hook suicides. Simple as that
I have proven to you that there are problems
You haven't demonstrated a realistic scenario that would prompt someone to constantly attempt self-unhooking and then immediately die in the struggle phase within the first few minutes of the game. The idea that a cat and a baby are going to always try to start a fire in the house the moment you enter the struggle phase due to excessive failed attempts at self-unhooks isn't a realistic one.
you are even ignoring that question of mine
Sorry, I've been replying to multiple people in this thread. Which question are you referring to?
please tell me what is too often
~33% of games ending in intentionally forcing a one-hook within the first few minutes of the game seems like too much to me. It means you are ruining approximately one in every three games.
please tell me you know how many new players will understand that they HAVE to struggle or they will get temp banned for not doing it
New players will quickly that they have to struggle or they will die, which is good enough. BHVR recently added visual changes to the self-unhooking process to highlight the fact that it is a very risky idea and not something that should be done lightly.
i know 10 new players that just started two weeks ago, and they still even after I told them it's not the best to struggle when they have friends or teamers that are going to get them, still try to get off and then forget to struggle because they are distracted by something else.
I am unconvinced that they do it with such frequency that they should be punished for it.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503496#Comment_1503496
I only said as a survivor because it’s the topic of the post. He’s talking about teammates hook suiciding. What do you mean key words? I’ve seen Killers quit too. It’s a problem on both sides people giving up. But more often on the survivor side. You can’t blame them. Survivor side might be more laid back, but it’s not enjoyable. You hold one button down on a generator and the killer gets ez hits on you with little penalty for missing. It barely slows him down. Vault hitboxes are very bad. I’ve never seen so many killers swinging wildly at windows THAT confident they will hit you.
Killer's can't leave the game early without disconnecting, which goes against the idea of "People aren't bound to a game."
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
as a survivor you can still just leave the game as well. People aren’t bound to a game you know. People have real life stuff going on that have influence over peoples decision to stay or leave.
Key words: "as a survivor"
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503433#Comment_1503433
And if your teams have a consistent habit of getting wiped?
Enough for you to consistently get one-hooked by means of repeatedly attempting to self-unhook and then let yourself die on hook the moment you entered the struggle phase?
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@theArashi said:
You can't force people to play the game. Trying to self unhook is intensional game design, just as all of the perks and all of the tactics people hate like camping, slugging, patrolling, swf and such.
Killers currently can't leave a game early without DCing. So this notion of "you can't force people to play the game" is contradicted by the current state of the game.
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503165#Comment_1503165
Just a couple days ago I had a Bubba down all 3 survivors with one sweep while I was on first hook, should I be penalized for wanting to get out faster from an already lost game?
That's where frequency comes in. You wouldn't get punished unless you demonstrate a consistent habit.
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Legion mori is solid. Pig mori is cool with the drill bit cosmetic.
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"F slur" I'm not certain about. "N-word" I think has been said to be bannable.
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I want the statistics regarding the percentage of games that had the perk "Hangman's Trick" in it since it was changed. :P
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@King_Steve_Forever33 said:
@AVoiceOfReason but it saves the perk until after your done being broken. And the perk goes with adrenaline and will heal you again even though your already full health
No it does not. It tries to heal you once after 30 seconds. It does not hold that heal until later if you are broken after that.
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@CosmicParagon said:
It's impossible. How is BHVR supposed to know the difference between somebody that's suiciding and somebody that knows theres no escape?
Frequency + time spent on hook before they died on first hook + time that has passed before they were hooked
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1503007#Comment_1503007
look, you are so intent on trying to prove a point you have made a mockery of this whole thing. have you ever had children? have you ever watched children? you NEVER know when you will have to do something to stop them. Why can I not try to get off of hook each time I get hooked? it puts me in phase two and then I have to deal with something? I gave examples. if i'm in stage two and i stop struggling it is not something I am required to tell you about, I may be tired and decide i'm done, maybe i have to go do something and then I come back. At least they are using IN MATCH functionality to do this instead of anything else. stop your whining about this and deal with it on your end. don't like it happening? easy fix, get 3 friends you play with and if they die on first hook tell them you won't play with them again for what ever reason. you put a penalty in for dying on first hook, you best also put a penalty in game about throwing pallets for no reason, how about failing skill checks? lol you want to penalize in match functionality, this is actually you just trying to force your individual viewpoint on to everyone that plays. GET a life.
You're presenting a highly unrealistic scenario. Having to tend to kids is reasonable. Having to tend to kids nearly every time you hit 2nd stage after consistently failing to self-unhook is not realistic. If someone repeatedly dies on first hook after staying on the hook for barely any time after being downed very early in the match, they should be punished.
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@LVonBastard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502841#Comment_1502841
Dude, i dont like this part of gameplay. Game is FORCING me to play tho. LOL, "entitlement". Yes, i have RIGHT to choose WHEN i want play game i bought and HOW. Forcing me to stay and fight dumbest killers in game is unreal.
You can just DC if you don't want to play. You'll get a penalty, but you won't have to play.
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Tombstone Piece I'm not sure how to feel about. Could be a case of "Too strong against lesser players; too weak against stronger players," but I don't think I can offer a reasonable opinion on that.
Judith's Tombstone is garbage. For sure one of his weakest add-ons.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502950#Comment_1502950
so you will dictate that I can't try to get off the hook? they will make sure to require my attention during the first stage of hook? lol great thinking you must know all the player's futures! NO. it is an option in the game, if people wish to try it and not struggle that's their CHOICE... they are using in match functionality and can not be punished for it without a declaration that it's an exploit like oh hey you have hatch? I'll dc for ya now. click.... hatch opens, match ends.
If you know that you have an urgent matter to tend do, why are you staying at the game to force yourself to die on hook ASAP instead of just walking away to tend to the matter and then return to see if you can still resume the game?
Or are you suggesting that "multiple games in a row, I will repeatedly try to self-unhook after being down in the first minute, and then the moment I enter phase 2, some urgent matter will require my attention and force me to leave and die" qualifies as a realistic scenario?
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@King_Steve_Forever33 said:
But it could activate afterwards? Just based on the way the perks are said to work it should activate is the point.
It applies a one-time heal after 30 seconds. If something else is making you broken when those 30 seconds are up, then it can't heal you because something else is still keeping you broken.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502918#Comment_1502918
lol easily. I have a cat and sometimes i have to get up to rescue it from something that could hurt it.... ok i have children i have to stop what i'm doing to discipline. I get a phone call I have to answer. shall I go on?
So help them while you are in hook phase 1 instead of trying to force yourself to die on hook before you tend to more important matters. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502864#Comment_1502864
so i can't try to get off the hook? and then get distracted and not struggle in time? lol thanks for punishing me for crap that is a mistake.
If you are caught doing that too frequently in too short amount of time, you get punished for it.
Give me a realistic scenario where that would happen frequently enough in a short span of time that you would get punished for it.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502744#Comment_1502744
so how can you tell an automated system to differentiate from wanting to get off the hook, not realizing you have to struggle, or intentionally not struggling... you can not do it thus you can not have an automated system monitor hook deaths and punish accordingly.
DCs: how can you tell an automated system to know when you lost connection to the server via the isp or something else in between vs someone pulling their ethernet cable or using their pc to disconnect? you can't it's impossible, you have to watch the packets and server information before and after the even to see the change and it's not the same each time. can't be done without human interaction.
I mentioned it above: If you are hooked within a certain amount of time and then die in one hook while having been on the hook for less than a certain amount of time, the system makes a note of that. If you are caught doing that too frequently in too short amount of time, you get punished for it.
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It would be weird for Trapper to pull a Bear Trap out of his butt when he doesn't have any on-hand.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502744#Comment_1502744
My only comeback to that is my suggestion would be easier to implement
I won't disagree with you there.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502734#Comment_1502734
might as well make it one hook, no struggle, can't get off yourself at all, can't do any emotes or anything. let's do that one hook, you get saved, next hook you're dead. so instead of 3 hooks it's 2.
Not really. You just gotta remove the ability to instantly die if you don't mash a button. You can still keep it three phases.
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If true, probably because whatever fix they attempted to the issue of people being banned for huge stretches of time without cause did not work.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502710#Comment_1502710
Unless you made it impossible to die on second hook you can't really enforce it and if they did get rid of the struggle phase what's the point of the second hook
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B0B0JEMBYJ8L/116595035-3365852396799862-81061579232535096-n.jpg
If you implement a system that keeps track and punishes accordingly, you can.
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No. What both sides should have is a surrender option that is only available after a certain point in the game (for the Survivor side, it must be unanimous between all players still in the trial).
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502671#Comment_1502671
You can kinda say the same thing with 1st hook deaths
Hence why intentionally dying on first hook excessively should be punished?
@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502632#Comment_1502632
They never said this. if they did I have never heard them say this. please give proof of them saying this? if it was known then why wasn't it adjusted? lol because they didn't care to monitor it because they didn't care about DCs till people started really complaining.
I can't promise you that I can find it easily, but I will certainly try. And the reason they didn't adjust it was that they opted to revamp the whole system into the current DC penalty system.
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@RoMainPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502655#Comment_1502655
I still say no, this is just a fairly non-competitive video game with (generally) very short matches. It's not like LoL where matches last anywhere for 30mins to an hour, and not nearly as competitive (though the snowball potential might be just as bad). The only reason the game prob feels longer than it actually is is because of queue timers.
If someone wants to quit they should be able to quit. If they actually addressed the issues on WHY people quit then maybe this would have validity. But because the snowball in DbD can be so unreal I don't blame someone if they're just like, "######### this I'm out."
Being a non-competitive game does not mean that ragequitting does not carry the likelihood of ruining the game for an entire team. Being a short match does not make it okay to ruin that game.
Yes, the game has issues that does need to be fixed, but you can't fix the people who are just sore losers and choose to quit out of saltiness. The only way to deal with those players are to cut off as many ways of them ragequitting as possible.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502649#Comment_1502649
I mean if the killer feels like leaving early is a valid option most survivors haven't piped so it would at least prevent them from depiping
Means the Survivors are now much more liable to have a larger percentage of non-games, which ain't fair to them.
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@RoMainPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502566#Comment_1502566
How will they keep track of this though? What will count? Only from first hook? Will second hook count? What if you miss a struggle button mash and #########? What if you try to kobe and fail and miss a struggle button mash? Does that count? What if a bug doesn't allow you to struggle? What if you just NEVER get saved? Will that count? How will they be able to differentiate?
If it's just person died on first hook X amount of times today that still doesn't mean anything. Sometimes you get ######### teammates game after game, who don't save you till struggle or don't even SAVE YOU at all. Again, HOW will they differentiate?
Killing yourself on hook is literally an option the game gives you, if a person doesn't want to play through that match they shouldn't be forced to. Which is what this will do.
If the Survivor is hooked within a certain amount of time after the trial has started, has spent less than a certain amount of time total on the hook, and dies in one hook, it would qualify. Give it a decent threshold so that the occasional misstep because of a missed button mash or something isn't liable to be punished.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502629#Comment_1502629
The devs could in theory just have an auto safety pip if the killer uses this option
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/09EOQJ4BEJDV/60622015-597864444027820-4551840111628648448-n.jpg
So the Killer can prevent Survivors from having a chance to pip.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502610#Comment_1502610
the fact I consistantly saw a streamer disconnect many times a night, and nothing EVER happened to her what so ever and she continually bragged that she can dc without penalty.
Hence why devs said that the threshold was too high and why they changed the system.
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502607#Comment_1502607
If the truly doesn't feel like playing that match yes it could be an option do you have any suggestions?
So the Killer can make the Survivors depip at will?
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502576#Comment_1502576
i never heard the devs say anything more than "don't use the ticket system to report dc's" (which I stopped using but i kept reporting unsportsmanlike conduct rage quit). but it was never used, the information never touched, and that's worse than having a system that's hackable or punishing people for dc's that they have no control over.
Can you verify that the information was never used?
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@terumisan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502589#Comment_1502589
Yea that's also a problem and the devs can easily fix by allowing killers to open the exit gate at any time
So the devs can fix the problem by giving the Killers the ability to prevent the Survivors from playing the game?
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@terumisan said:
No? You can't force them to keep playing if they don't want to. And it's impossible to enforce anyway
Tell that to the Killers who have no way of leaving the match early without disconnecting.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502531#Comment_1502531
you know this for a fact? or are you guessing because i've told you that people disconnected without worry of punishment with this "system" ? please share where you have found the information of the "thresholds". also it does not waste the time of someone, if can call attention to someone that dc's a great deal of time and they could then take action, but it was not being done so no one got banned etc. ALSO the dc penalty system has a lasting information with the dedicated server where as before there was no data to show why a dc happened because of the fact that the match was connected between the players. sure information ends up transmitted to the behavior server but it was not the information that was needed.
This was said by the devs a good while back, if memory serves correctly.
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@RoMainPuppy said:
They have no way to differentiate between someone using the "leave match" button to someone literally pulling the plug. I sincerely doubt they could find a way to differentiate WHEN you try to ######### on first hook. Also again, what punishment are you going to GIVE them. A time out penalty for killing themselves on hook? ######### no. You wanna make people leave in droves? This is how you do it.
DBD is not LoL, it is not competitive like LoL, the matches last far less time, it is a FAR easier game with less mechanics, it doesn't need a "leaver penalty" for SUICIDING on hook. They already have a penalty for d/cs (which can be an actual problem), deal with it.
A time out penalty for excessively killing themselves on hook. Like, doing so at a rate where there is absolutely no justification.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502514#Comment_1502514
the system did keep track sure but it required people to monitor it and that never happened. I saw someone disconnect 10 times in ONE stream that was less than 5 hours long. this is why I report all dcs when there is no automated penalties. It never got used, monitored and people got upset about it, there was no action EVER taken from that.
The problem was that the threshold to punish someone was WAY too high, so it ended up not being enough of a disincentive to not DC. That's why it got switched to the current DC Penalty system.
Manually reporting DCs was bad because it would waste the time of people who read those unnecessary reports rather than reports that actually did warrant someone looking at them.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502440#Comment_1502440
there was no system like that, it required the staff to 24/7 monitor people's accounts and there is not enough people to do that on behavior's staff. do you want your game breaking bugs fixed at all?
Yes there was. It's why the devs kept saying "Don't report disconnects" since there was a system that automatically kept track of that.
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Not without Gene Wilder being alive to voice him.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1501932#Comment_1501932
Everyone read what you said but it just doesn't make sense. What is a "harsher punishment". They die. That's the punishment. Do you want someone to irl punch them in the chest too?
And then let's say you get what you want. What if my first hook doesn't happen until late in the game and I want to kill myself to give the last person a chance to escape. Does that get the same punishment as killing myself on hook earlier in the game?
Because I can already tell you DBD doesn't care about early game vs late game and can't differentiate. I got a DC penalty once while I was opening the exit gates, my power flickered and caused the internet to go out. Didn't matter that it was late game or that I didn't DC intentionally. All the game cares about is, "it happened, here's your punishment."
So how would your supposed punishment separate early game saboteurs from late game strategic death
You know how before they implemented the DC penalty system, the old system simply kept track of how often one DC'd, and if they DC'd too frequently in a given span of time, they might get punished?
Something like that would be good. If a player dies on a hook very early in such a way that it's very likely that they deliberately killed themselves on hook as a way of ragequitting, keep note of that. If it happens too frequently in a given span of time, give 'em a temp ban.
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Not the worst idea I've heard.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498815#Comment_1498815
Both are currently not designed to look like the actors at all so there is no need for talks here if they don’t intend to design them now like those actors
Well, we know they've been talking with Quentin's actor from the Elm Street reboot.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1498767#Comment_1498767
Everybody knows about how bad he looks, but why can't both get redesigned at the same time..
Because both would require talks with the people who own the IP, as well as the actual actors themselves. It's a tough process, so one at a time.
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I'd be down for a boomstick.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1497654#Comment_1497654
Again, Bamboozle.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1497667#Comment_1497667
Literally everyone is running Bamboozle on him, and for good reason.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1497714#Comment_1497714
You move at 5.29 meters per second for 6 seconds. If you just mindgame one window during a saw, which you can do very easily given your enhanced movement speed, they’re not going to be able to use a nearby one because it’s either Bamboozled or you’re moving at 5.29 meters per second and catch up easily.
If you closed out their only option with Bamboozle, sure, you probably got them, but I can believe that the Survivor still has a chance to make it to another area while Bubba tries to go for the chainsaw again. Not all loops die if you have Bamboozle.