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@OinkGirlMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/557854#Comment_557854
New rule set no.2?
I dunno. Consider that with the standard four boxes, getting three boxes wrong makes it only as good as Tampered Timer (and if you add an extra box, it only becomes better than Tampered Timer if they have to search all five boxes), so making it rarer than Tampered Timer seems silly. At the same time, using it alongside with Tampered Timer would mean you can strike up to a full minute off the clock, which seems nuts IMO (even moreso if you make this base kit and can add a fifth box and use Tampered Timer).
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I find myself quite likeing PGTW since the buff. As far as Ruin, every time I feel talked into equipping it on these forums, I end up taking it off again shortly after because it just gets knocked out relatively quickly more often than not. I recently played a few games where I had both equipped, and PGTW was putting in work while Ruin just gets knocked out pretty quickly.
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As an add-on, maybe. As base kit, I wouldn't really go for it.
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I worry two extra might be a tad excessive since using Pig's current selection as a comparison, going Bag + Crate lets her have 3 extra Uncommon add-ons on top of that. Perhaps that isn't as problematic as I would worry, who knows. I think it's a big step in the right direction, at least. There is a small slowdown add-on at Common, a conditional large slowdown add-on and an extra Trap add-on at Uncommon, a Rare add-on that combines the Common and an Uncommon, and a Very Rare that combines an Uncommon (or two) with another upgrades Uncommon. Seems like a nice spread.
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Oops, I misread Razor Wire and didn't notice that they had to be Injured. That still seems like it would undercut Crate of Gears pretty badly, as it still is quite capable of slowdown either through its own effect or through having to stop to heal. Again, the Trap placing speed is a negligible buff. All Crate would really be good for is doubling up with it. I would make Workshop Grease and Razor Wire do something else, personally.
Iridescent Head is really only problematic when you give her extra Hatchets to mitigate the downside. In a vacuum, I would consider this to be more problematic. Increasing the cooldown would not be good enough by itself, and idk how I feel about the ambush cooldown also activating on basic attacks; it seems like it would make using it extra clunky.
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Also, because I can't edit comments, Heroine Syringe seems like it would just lead to ridiculously short chases. Sneak, uncrouch, land first hit, catch up, instant ambush for near guaranteed second hit.
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What would be the point of Bag and Crate of Gears if your ideas for Workshop Grease and Razor Wire existed except to effectively double up on them? The speed increase in putting on Traps is barely relevant, so you're pretty much making nearly identical add-ons at lower rarities.
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RBT timers expire in 120 seconds. (was 150 seconds) The crouching animation takes 1 second.
I don't think you need to reduce the timer in base kit; the rest of the suggestions are fine in my book.
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I'm betting on it being a typo.
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@s0cial_outc4st said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/556238#Comment_556238
Monstrous Shrine is decent, but I personally don't think it's top 10.
Monstrous Shrine is probably one of the single worst persks in the game.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/555283#Comment_555283
I honestly don't get why RSN2 isn't baseline yet. It's probably the only major problem with her traps, other than RNG.
I think making the first search auto fail could be interesting. I don't know how they'd do that with the current way the boxes are programmed (for those who don't know, the game pre-selects which box holds the key for each trap) but it's an interesting idea.
I honestly don't get how her add-ons aren't a higher priority either. The devs said some time ago that Nurse, Doctor and Bubba were the next ones on the radar, but tbh I'd say Pig should be looked into before Nurse and Doctor. Doctor has more usable addons than her. Nurse is BS, but you know what is also BS? Having add-ons that harm your game like some of the Pig ones or some that should be basekit already.
I actually think Doctor should be looked at first, if only because it's a goddamn crime that Moldy Electrode ain't base kit. His shock range is trash without any sort of range extension.
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*the first Box auto-fails.
For some reason, trying to edit my post causes the whole site to become unresponsive.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/555242#Comment_555242
Here's the thing. It's not meant to kill people.
It's meant to take survivors off gens, which it already does.
If it killed people consistently, then we'd have a problem. Dying after being downed once because of RNG feels even shittier than a survivor removing their trap on their first try. That'd be ######### game design at its best.
If anything is changed about the RBTs, it should be changing from flat RNG to a scaling chance of removing it per box. But there'd still be people complaining about survivors getting lucky, maybe even more than people complain right now.
I think her traps are just fine. This game is full of RNG already, and there are many many worse instances of RNG than reverse bear traps. Unless the devs do a full 180 on their philosophy when it comes to randomness, their randomness shouldn't be changed. And they shouldn't be changed to kill people more often either.
I don't understand this thread's thought process at all. Her ability has two parts: one that's already doing its job and one that's complete garbage. Why waste time, resources and the killer's power budget changing the former when you can probably make her really good by changing the latter?
IMO, I don't think the Traps do their job well enough. I get that there's an element of RNG behind it, but I think the range is a bit too wide. Sometimes the Traps can actually slow the game down effectively, and sometimes they just flop. If the Trap could have a slightly better worst-case scenario, I think that would help a fair bit. Could make it so the first Trap auto-fails, or they could make RSN2 base-kit. Something to make their stalling just a tad more consistent.
I don't think base kit timer reductions are the way to go (not even conditional ones like this) because they don't actually make the Traps any better at stalling; they just make it more likely that Traps kill. When they don't (which will still be often since, as you said, Traps are not designed to kill), they are no better than they currently are at stalling.
All that being said, I do agree that her ambush is poo-poo and probably needs to be buffed before the RBTs (though if I am being honest, the first thing I want to see happen to the Pig is a friggin' add-on revision because they suuuuuuck).
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I see you managed to get a Reverse Bear Trap kill. Very nice.
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@ReikoMori said:
Just make it so survivors can't Dead Hard to prevent the head pop then work on the rest of this stuff. Like why is the fact they step forward really fast still allowing survivors to avoid something attached to their head ripping their face apart.
I don't believe what you are describing is an actual thing. Is there video proof?
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@RoKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554935#Comment_554935
I don't deny that it serves my objective if a survivor disconects early in the match. If I can subteltily trigger that response on people who are prone to that, I will. Be it start the mori animation a couple of times, hit them when they are on the hook, camp them, etc
"If I can subteltily trigger that response on people who are prone to that, I will. Be it start the mori animation a couple of times"
Pretty sure that is griefing.
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@RoKrueger said:
@TAG I thought you were so sure of your point of view. I respected that. Sure @Peanits give us your opinion
To clarify: I agree that spaming UNTIL a survivor disconects is surely griefing. Failing to complete the animation a couple of times and they incidentaly disconect before you can complete it is not. Are you telling me that all those pre-nerfed Legion players were grievers? I don't think so
I am, but you seem to not listen to people who are not of authority.
You have admitted that you are trying to get people to disconnect. What you are trying to do is griefing.
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@Peanits , think we can get some clarification on BHVR's stance regarding mori cancelling on someone until they disconnect?
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This seems like it would make for a better high-rarity add-on than for base kit.
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@mistar_z said:
Pig.
I'm assuming you're buying the whole chapter and not just unlocking the character.
+ Pig has a decent base kit with the added benefit of being able to slow the game down with her reverse bear traps.
+ Pig isn't as addon reliant as Clown, in which the clown is pretty bad without equipping them.
+ Tapp arguably has slightly stronger perks than Kate's.
The Pig is criminally underrated by the community for the most part, often being ranked really low. But she's just got a soft learning curve to her. She's very good and probably one of the more balance killers in how well you do will depend on how well you utilize all the aspects of her kit.
While the Clown may have two very strong perks (PgtW and Bamboozle) compared to the Pig's two decent one (MYC and Surveillance), he's very problematic in other areas.
Clown is buggy af atm and many have said that he's actually very boring to play as or against, this is largely do to him having only one real use for his ability. Pig can chase, she can ambush, she can pressure and she can has built in slows.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/67853/40-bugs-unique-to-clown-is-this-a-joke-devs
So while the Clown may on paper be able to end chases faster than her, he's still going to get gen rushed real hard because he has no real way of pressuring the survivors.
I would hold off on him unless you're getting the chapter for the perks alone. While I wouldn't personally rank him as being in the bottom of the barrel in terms of how well he ranks with the other killers, as I personally do well enough on him. But he's not too far above from Leatherface. There are just way more fun and viable killers to choose from.
I would rather bring this up in a more relevant thread, so I won't turn this into a big discussion on this one, but I would not call Pig's base kit decent. Inconsistent game stalling + ambush that is only sometimes useful at mindgaming certain loops and unreliable everywhere else = weak base kit IMO. Clown also doesn't get his bottles taken away during the Endgame Collapse, which one can't say the same for with Pig.
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@RoKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554774#Comment_554774
@weirdkid5 It is a weak strategy for sure. I mean it only works on players that are susceptible to succumb to anger, have difficulties handling stress and can't stand to lose in a video game. Luckily there are not many people like that playing Dead by Daylight ;-) ;-)
Griefers don't care about their strategy being weak. They only care about making sure one or more people have the most miserable time possible, preferably with a disconnect. Mori spam is only good for that exact purpose. It is a scummy thing to do.
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One Pig add-on that I have been recently thinking about is Tampered Timer. It's an add-on that does only one thing: Make it easier to kill Survivors with Reverse Bear Traps. The way I see it, unless you actually do manage to get a kill with it, it does absolutely nothing. But because the Traps are designed to be a stalling tool first and a killing tool second, the Timer doesn't really push the Traps in that direction all that much. You get a kill a little more often here and there, but it doesn't really do a whole lot outside of maybe low-ranks.
Do I think it needs a buff? Re-work? Rarity adjustment? I'm not sure. I mean, I still use it to try and shoot for the dream. But I do feel like the add-on is a bit limited in usefulness because it is at odds with the intended purpose of the Reverse Bear Traps. Would probably be a good idea to have a look at it and figure out how to make Tampered Timer actually have some sort of meaningful impact a little more often.
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That would just lead to less variety in high level, as less compromises would have to be made to shore up one's weaknesses.
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@RoKrueger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554664#Comment_554664
@DarkGGhost I disagree with that part. Face camp and mori spam are also fair and countereable (the rest of the sirvivors should do generators)
Mori spamming is absolutely not fair. It only has one real purpose: to grief someone into disconnecting.
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@FishFry247 said:
Always thought it would be cool if you could use red or purple keys to get the trap off instantly, but would be punished if another trap is on you in the same game, like the timer being cute in half
I don't like this idea for a number of reasons:
1) I think items/perks being able to hard counter a Killer's power (toolboxes on bear traps, flashlights on Wraith, Nurse, and Hag traps, and Adrenaline on Freddy) is bad design IMO. Just being able to immediately say "no" to the Pig's game stalling is problematic when the Pig's game stalling is already not consistent to hegin with.
2) Given that the timer doesn't start until someone pops a gen, that could still give them enough time to get their punishment trap off if people play around it, and that's assuming they actually get caught again in a reasonable time. Someone could get the trap off with a Key late-game, have the last gen pop, and then they have gotten away with it with no punishment.
3) Survivors with keys aren't even incentivized to use the key immediately. They can just do the boxes at their own pace and then use the key as a failsafe if somehow they screwed it up. Or worse, it might just allow them to safely work on a gen knowing that they can take the trap off whenever they want, which means that the game doesn't slow down.
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@Alfred said:
Just allow Amanda once per game put the key into another survival which is on hook. Same as Jigsaw put the key from her RBT into her drug dealer.
The person with this 'special RBT' unhook with scalpel and it is up to him
'Live or Die. Make Your Choice'...
It sounds like you are saying that the Pig should have a one-per-game ability to guarantee that someone dies.
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Pig, because you can unlock Clown with shards.
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The only one I'm not big on is Berus Toxin. I think that should just stay an add-on.
Of all the ones you mentioned, I think the one that absolutely needs to happen the most is Moldy Electrode for Doctor. His base shock range is atrocious IMO.
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Jigsaw's Annotated Plan:
A disturbing, yet brilliant, Trap design laid down on paper and annotated by Jigsaw.
- Increases available Jigsaw Boxes by 1.
- Moderately increases the Reverse Bear Trap death timer.
Tampred Timer:
A timer that has been fiddled with. A spring in the mechanism forces the gears to turn faster.
- Moderately reduces the Reverse Bear Trap death timer.
Annotated Plan increases the death timer by 15 seconds. Tampered Timer reduces the death timer by 30 seconds.
This is dumb. No good reason not to show the actual number changes instead of letting people think they change the timer by the same absolute value.
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/551862#Comment_551862
yes it does? personal experience vs forum avatar
such a group of geniuses i am dealing with lol
Not when the personal experience only amounts to "a few games."
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Why didn't you confirm the perks in question when you bought the DLCm
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Would this perk continue to accumulate an action penalty while on the hook?
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@miaasma said:
pretending to know how i play survivor based on a forum portrait, a true classic from the members of this forum
I mean, you seem to know perfectly that someone plays only one Killer based on only a couple of isolated games. That doesn't seem much better.
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@Dehitay said:
I think the primary reason not to make it free to play at this point is just because of all that people that have already paid for it. BHVR would have to compensate them to validate this, and compensation isn't their forte.
I mean, something nifty in-game for the people who stuck with them prior, maybe, but that's about it.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/550089#Comment_550089
It's a suggestion coming from someone who played as him a few games, and thought it was ridiculous that you didn't lose stalking progress after a bit. Haven't played him enough for my opinion to matter, apparently, but whatever.
The original PTB had the stalk decay, but it was removed before the live release.
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I think I can get on board with this.
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Same response I'll always give:
The following add-on combos are ones that I personally like to use:
1) Jigsaw's Annotated Plan + Jigsaw's Sketch
2) Bag of Gears + Crate of Gears
3) Tampered Timer + any of the above add-ons (Note: Despite Annotated Plan and Tampered Timer both referring to the time increase/decrease as "moderately," my testing showed that Annotated Plan raises the timer by 15 seconds while Tampered Timer reduces the timer by 30 seconds, so there is merit to using Tampered Timer + Annotated Plan even if Tampered Timer + Sketch is straight-up better).
4) Last Will + any of the above add-ons
I don't use the following myself, but you could also maybe do:
5) Combat Straps + Video Tape (if you reeeally still want the 1-second crouch)
6) Video Tape + John's Medical File
Any add-ons I haven't listed above are ones I think are not worth using.
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@JESUS_CHRIST said:
Are the stretchy leather noises directional as well? Either way it should help alot. I already accepted that his expose ability is something that isn't going to get much use pre-nerf so I'm kind of whatever on the change. I was mainly using NS just to get people to go give their position away and complicate chases.
According to the patch notes, leather rubbing sounds are still there.
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They did remove that vacuum cleaner sound whenever he is in stealth, which is a notable plus IMO.
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@Peanits said:
It's way more complicated than it seems. Not all groups are super coordinated and trying to win as fast as possible, most are just a couple friends hanging out and chatting while they play a game. How would you suggest doing so in a way that would unnecessarily punish the casual groups that are not trying as hard as possible to win? And how could that not be avoided by queuing solo at the same time as your friends?
Queuing solo at the same time is kinda just an unfortunate limitation that I don't think really has an answer. As for the rest of it, I think the answer starts with the devs figuring out whether they want to balance the game around SWF or around solo Survivors.
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Wouldn't this also help the top tier Killers?
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Almost definitely a bug.
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@ceeroover said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/546421#Comment_546421
There is a 4vs1 competitive gamemode in Super Smash Bros?
Sure, it's called "Team Battles." :P
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@gantes said:
The only way to balance around high ranks without cucking low ranks and without making the game play differently depending on rank is to balance around red ranks and then increase the ######### out of the skill cap of pubstomp killers.
Anyone who's been through the new player experience knows how killer sided the games can be.
They clearly balance the game around mid green/low purple ranks imo. If you're gonna balance around red ranks, the easier killers will have to stop being as easy as they are. Then we might have a chance of getting a game balanced around the highest level.
If it makes high ranks moderately balanced without destroying low ranks, I don't see why not.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
@Chaotic_Riddle I agree.
I also agree with some of what the others have said too. I am just wondering if nerfing is the right avenue. In order to create balance, you can't just nerf, nerf, and nerf some more. There are other ways. For example, a potential work-around for MoM would have been to allow killers to have a built-in chance to critical hit, thus cutting through MoM and BT type perks. Would not always work, but for every perk in a match like BT or MoM, the killer's chance increases by X%. (That may not be the best example, but it is a base idea. There are ways around problems that don't include nerfs.)
I'd rather not have RNG built into basic attacks.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/545814#Comment_545814
this isnt an competitive gameplay like shooters or so. even those games arent balanced around the top. no game which wants to have a high playerbase will balance around top players. thats why most games have ranked modes, cause theyre not supposed to be balanced around top players.
"no game which wants to have a high playerbase will balance around top players."
What do you base this claim on?
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Simple reason is this is a casual party game. They are pushing the balance needle more and more towards the experienced players on the survivor side, which I fear will have a negative long term affect. Think about it, if you are not good at looping, you get destroyed as a survivor nowadays.
I played survivor for the first time in more than a long time last night. I was deranked to 17 (have not played survivor in months) and watched these rank 15 to 20 survivors getting absolutely destroyed. Out of 7 matches, only one killer was truly new. The rest were all experienced killers hanging out at the inexperienced ranks. Several admitted to being red rank killers on other accounts.
So, on a free weekend where we need to bring in new players, they are being smashed by experienced smurfs accounts. Yeah, that is not good for long term game health for a party game. The balance needs to be towards casuals more.
What you're describing is a separate issue from game mechanic balance. Being balanced towards casuals won't stop experienced players who deliberately make their way to low ranks from having a huge leg up against newer or simply casual players.
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I don't like that this idea encourages tunneling someone off the hook. I mean, to be fair, you can do that already with moris, but at least someone with a mori currently might potentially think "Well, I have them next time I see them, so I don't necessarily need to hunt them down the moment they are off the hook.
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@se05239 said:
Because it makes sense to balance around ranks 10-20 because that's where the majority is.
Checked steam's global achievements for Dead by Daylight? Only 4% of survivors ever reached to Rank 1 and only 2% of all killers got there. Only 10% of all survivors reached rank 10 and a mere 5% of killers reached it.
A huge majority of players float around rank 10-20.
Does that not just lead to game imbalance that frustrates all players at both high and low ranks, though?
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Still not worth it IMO.