StrongWolf85
StrongWolf85
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NO
this game 1) is not balanced and 2) does not have a clear win/loss condition 3) the devs do nothing about rampent cheating from one side of the player base
These 3 things are required of any game to have a functioning MMR/SBMM.
Since many survivors are boosted by SWFs, as in that's all they play, it does nothing to address the disparity in the balance of the game and since the devs refuse to balance for 4-man SWF groups in coms (not to mention stretch res, with filters, other survivor only exploits, and hackers) the numbers are always skewed. Moreover, perks such as NOED also skew the statistics the devs used to make decisions and pat themselves on the back with. When SBMM was in live test, my games as killer were a nightmare of 4-man SWF teams all meta with stretch, etc; My survivor games (solo) were a constant stream of insanely sweaty blights, spirits, and nurses (in order of most common to least) with the rare toxic and sweaty bubba sprinkled in. My experience then was not fun and it won't be long for the same to happen to most players.
It will only be a matter (i give it a month or two) of time for killers to tire of ever sweatier, toxic, entitled SWF squads when they either start loosing on purpose or switch to new killers, leaving SWF squads with no one their MMR to play against thus placing them up against newer or more casual killers. The consistant coddling of survivors and refusal to properly balance the game will lead to another mass exodus of killer players as Experienced killers will move on to games that are actually fun, and not stressful, to play while the lesser experienced killers will be bullied out of the game or otherwise turned off from it all together. Queue times will inevitably go up with the shortage of killers which will drive survivor players, especially content creators, away to other games with active lobbies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NbMbqINGO4
There will be a brief period were the system works as intended, however due to the extreme disparity between the two sides, all the SBMM will do is exasorbate and expose the existing problems with imbalance, cheating, survivor-based biased/favoratism, and poor game design. It will turn players off from dbd faster than the old system. As it stands the devs do not have any time to sit on their hands and pat themselves on the back. They need to start balancing around a 4-man team in coms, take steps to prevent all forms of cheating (stretch res, filters, exploits, hacks) and start fixing the hopst of bugs that make up the core coding of DBD. Yes this will make many swf-mains angry and they will leave the game to find another game in which they can bully other players without consequense (like joining a mega tribe in ARK) but that loss, although significant, will be a boon for DBD as it will also start to deal with the more toxic elements of the community at the same time.
This system will ONLY hurt DBD in it's current form.
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@SleepyWillo said:
Others have addressed the whole SWF v Solo thing so I won't repeat that. What I will speak on is your comment about them giving survivors "the tools".
The DBD discord was a thing long before the devs had any involvement with it. It was so popular that the devs requested to be involved with it (rather than attempting to create another and potential attempt to rival a strong discord server).
They didn't give the tools. They joined those who were doing it anyway...
edit: typos
I was not aware of this as I was recently introduced to it.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
Players tend to blame SWF when they get a bad match, truth is that SWF teams make up only like 10% (or less) of the overall population, it is very unlikely to go against a SWF team match after match, most of the times you are gonna be playing versus 4 solo survivors.
The thing here is that people sometimes don't want to accept they just had a bad match (or a streak of bad matches) true for example started blaming a ''SWF squad'' on one of his streams when he lost a match like a week ago, then when people investigated about it it turns out it wasn't a SWF team, they were just randoms who played really well and true had to back down and admit he played bad, but most people don't want to admit that, they rather give an excuse like ''they had an advantage over me'' than admit they played bad.
it is very unlikely that you had multiple matches against SWF, you can't even tell that they were SWF unless you got screenshots of them admitting in the end game chat that they actually were.
If SWF made up only 10% of all the matches in the game then it wouldn't have been such a big deal that the devs added it to literally save the game. Not sure where you are getting your information from, but if you are willing to believe that then I have a bridge to sell you...
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@Nazeef13 said:
I highly recommend you play swf with some people in the discord group and see how many times you actually do better. A lot of them are there just to socialize while gaming and are not that good or sweaty in my experience. I end up having to carry just as I would in solo's for 8/10 groups
I have. they are social but outside of a few high strung newbies (who are getting sweaty at rank 20 and complaining that killer is OP because they can't repeat how Otz or Tru3 play when they survivor), some self admitted toxic players who I changed lobbies on, and one very proud and admitted Nazi from Germany people were still sharing information that would be otherwise unavailable to them: "trap is here", "I just ran by lit totem at X but I'm being chased", "Killer left me at Y location headed towards Z, watch out". Even that casual information gives undue advantages to the whole group. Like I said, I spent a day (8+ hours) playing with a friend and two randos on the forums and even at it's most casual there was information being exchanged pretty regularly in between casual banter.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2255567#Comment_2255567
Good Survivors DO NOT need coms to know that there is always someone being chased and they should be doing gens.
In what instance exactly does a good Survivor run away from a gen before the Killer's TR even approaches, and because of coms?????
That is laughable.
Good Survivors do have the information of who the Killer is, what their power is, and if it's likely there are traps around a hook WITHOUT USING COMS.
In your original post you state that your day has been a mixture of console/microsoft store/steam players.
In what world is it even remotely likely for a player playing on console to be on coms with someone that is playing on PC???
This right here basically shows that you are an inexperienced Killer unwilling to accept that there are better players than yourself playing the game.
With or without coms.
Good survivors may not need coms, but they do provide a significant advantage. People who are good at shooters don't need infinite ammo with no reloading, but it would provide them with a significant advantage over other competition. And there are many instances where good survivors run away before the Killer's TR approaches them.
For example: three survivors are attacking three critical generators mid/late game. If killer commits to chase two generators and the game is lost for one hook. These survivors relay to each other when the killer came to them, leaves them and in which direction they went. This information ensures that survivors can always place themselves in a situation where they can set themselves up at safe loops and jungle gyms before the killer can initiate chase. This puts the survivor so far out of the killer's reach that choosing to chase means throwing the entire game. Good survivors with coms make for a more coordinated playstyle and thus moments like this, where a team of survivors can freely plow through generators with little or no threat from any killer. I cannot tell you how many matches I lost because of this. That you call this laughable tells me that you don't play killer much at all and especially not at high levels.
Good survivors do not always have information on the location of the killer, as you claim, unless they are hacking or otherwise cheating (i.e. stretch screen). Experience my provide good survivors with the knowledge to sus out what a killer's perks are but a coordinated team sharing information makes that even easier and faster to deduce, thus survivors can adapt much much more quickly. And for your information, I play trapper at high levels, I will hardly trap anyone who is in a group that is communicating the location of traps and it's easy to tell when people are, especially when I place traps in commonly traveled but rarely trapped areas.
also in what world do console players, Microsoft store/xbox players, and pc players form a SWF with coms? you ask. Why in a world where the devs of DBD provide them with a discord they can all connect to and find each other to form a swf. leading back to my original question.
"This right here basically shows that you are an inexperienced killer unwilling to accept that there are better players than yourself playing the game"....*Laughs in rank 1 killer* your whole rant demonstrates that you don't actually play killer much at all or even at high ranks since you've never experienced any sort of situation that has been described or even understand what exactly the other killer players have been talking about when they share their experiences. *Also laughs in Rank 1 survivor* I play both roles, I know from personal experience on both sides just how powerful coms can be from groups as small as a 2 man all the way to a four man. I've seen how good information sharing helps people at yellow ranks trounce killers at purple ranks with some ease and avoid getting caught by red rank killers long enough for generators to fly before the killer can respond. I also play solo survivor, in fact I reach rank one each season primarily playing solo. My point being, you have done nothing but demonstrate yourself to be at the height of ignorance and are merely projecting when you say that I am inexperienced. I'm not going to sit here and sell you that I'm some top% player in dbd, in either role, there certainly are better players than me, but you don't need me to tell you that, however here's where my rank does matter: I can demonstrate that I know what I am talking about from experience on both sides. All you sound like is some boosted, trolly survivor main.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2237359#Comment_2237359
So how do you come up with the conclusion that information trumps anything that could tilt the match one way or the other? Because as I’ve already said, it doesn’t matter if you know the killer is on someone else, if you aren’t doing anything productive you are bringing your team down. I don’t care how much information you have, this is fact.
Having information at red ranks hardly means anything because you are more experienced and capable of dealing with the killer on a 1v1 scenario. You know there are still potatoes in red ranks right? Like legit worse than green ranks who still urban their way through ranks.
Im not sure how BHVR allowed access to discord to survivors because I am pretty sure discord was already being used, and it isn’t something that BHVR owns either. Anyway, I only asked because on the context you brought it up it sounded as if there were more examples.
I play in red ranks all the time and I see solo queue survivors destroying as much if not more than SWF teams.
That I even need to explain this is, frankly, evidence that you do not play up at red ranks as much as you claim. At red ranks a team of 4 survivors using information well means that one person is looping while 3 are doing generators. This is the type of team who ends games within 4 minuets on a slow day. At higher ranks, survivors know and understand more about the game, and helping each other know when to run away means ensuring much a much greater head start than the killer's TR gives. It also means hooked survivors can alert otehr survivors of traps that have been placed near them or if a killer is stealthing and they are not being camped; you know, information that survivors shouldn't have because there are no perks that offer such. The fact that you don't understand what coordination is and how it impacts DBD tells me you are not a red rank killer.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I wish I could talk to solo queue survivors so I could ask them why they refuse to touch a generator even when the killer is not on them.
A player's skill isn't measured by how much information they have via comms only by their actions and choices. Someone suddenly knowing that a hex totem is inside shack isn't going to magically teach them how to loop shack. Having the killer on me isn't going to force someone to touch a generator, yeah even the 99'd gen they got off of when they heard a heartbeat. These are just a couple of things that make solo queue a hell mode queue.
So while we are all in agreement that swf has a bit more information than solo queue survivors, this isn't the reason why solo queue is a mess. It is a mess because they lack experience, you can clearly see this through the ranks the game decides to put you with ( a rank 2 with a rank 20??) and their movement (throws a god pallet down immediately after getting hit). Those are the things you look out for in bad teammates.
I also don't understand what "handing survivors tools" means. I would need a little more clarification about that, because as far as I am concerned survivors have received nerfs/buffs as much as killers have.
In this game, information is king, what others are able to do with that information is on them. Just as you said, player skill does matter, this is why Killer seems so powerful at low ranks, we all know this, a Killer's performance is also heavily dependent the survivor's mistakes and lack of map knowledge. That said, apples to apples, low rank killers against low rank survivors are at more of a disadvantage because that information gives survivors up to 5 different perks and then some that are normally not available to them. Even then, low rank players might not know how best to act on that information but what about mid and upper ranks? what about red ranks?
I feel like you are doing exactly what Almo does, factor the strength of something around the bottom rank players. More than any exhaustion perk, information has helped me to go entire games without seeing a hook...or even knowing where to intercept a killer to take a hook for my teammates who are on dead hook.
By "handing survivors tools" I mean specifically their own discord and the endless number of "SWF" channels. Can't find a 4 man SWF? they provide a place to find one yourself. And, yes, I am aware that if not them someone else would do it but that's wholly irrelevant because the issue is BHVR is doing it themselves knowing they are setting up situations where killers are going to be significantly disadvantaged and/or bullied.
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@bowo said:
no. people should be able to play with friends. "banning swf" or comms is ridiculous.
I agree that banning SWF would be ridiculous since the core population of the game (toxic, entitled survivor mains) would go back to whatever pvp game they can "win" through abusive numbers and cheap tactics (something like rust or day z).
Personally I'm a fan of mandatory localized chat. this way when survivors are immersed and relaying information on the killer the killer would be able to hear them regardless of what third party software they are using, so no more psychic survivors, at least not safe ones. Of course this is because the devs won't commit to any reasonable chances, such as balancing the game around high rank SWFs in comms instead of low rank/beginner solos.
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@Lemoniax said:
Makes me wonder if all "killer mains" complaining about swf don't even have friends so they wouldn't know that it is so much more fun playing with friends, regardless if it gives you an advantage or not. If not for swf, this game would be dead a long time ago. I was introduced to it solely because of friends who wanted me to play with them. And since then I even started playing more killer than survivor. Anyways, at this point removing swf would be a death sentence for this game and the only thing they can do is to buff solo q. Personally, I don't care because I don't "sweat" my games that much and just try to have a good time. I also don't play dbd 24/7, that helps I guess.
Love how your response to an issue that's also been killing dbd, albeit more slowly, is [paraphrased] "Killer mains don't have friends". How about killer mains just say that survivor mains suck at the game so hard that they can't play without all the crutches, second chances, and handholding? at least one statement has more evidence to support it and it isn't yours.
I love how your solution is also to buff solo queue and not to nerf SWF groups based on number of players in the group or to buff killers based on the number of players in a group. Buffing solo queue to be on par with SWF is literally the exact opposite of a solution. That's taking an already unfairly powerful side and making it more powerful because SWFs are significantly more powerful. Survivors don't need more buffs, the devs have been holding the survivors hands for years and, worse, the head of balance isn't even a good survivor so the game is "balanced" around rank 15-20 survivors in solo queue.
In all seriousness though, the point of the topic is to highlight how unbalanced the game is, a core problem causing the balance issues, and how behavior is doing the exact opposite to solve it.
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@GuyFawx said:
This is why i almost feel like corrupted intervention should get a rework to block all gens for a less amount of time maybe. Tho i do admit it could be abused in that form
abused how? by sending survivors sprawling across the amp looking for totems? corrupt intervention is a double edged sword. killers who use it are taking a gamble blocking, often, less than desirable generators and leaving more important ones exposed or signaling to survivors that its time for a bone hunt. Corrupt only works well for certain killers with certain play styles.
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@gendoss said:
I'm in agreement that the actual comms really doesn't do that much. It's more the fact that 3 - 4 good players are in a match over the advantage that comms actually gives you. Also the "swf" problem will be solved with MMR. The people who swf all the time will be at the top of the ranks facing nurses and spirits if it really gives them that much of an advantage.
Actually the do provide a significant advantage. One player says to another, "hey I found a lit totem. it's at location x in case I get chased off of it...hey I just got chased off it, go get it quick!" or "My gen is like 90% finished, was just chased off it, still in chase. go get it" or "I'm being face camped, they have insidious, just do gens" or "my distortion just went off, killer has BBQ" or "watch out for lockers, killer has iron maiden" and etc. etc. etc. etc. I can go on and on for days about the type of information that can and is made available to SWFs in comms that isn't available to them or wouldn't be available to them or shouldn't be available to them. If you really don't believe SWF with comms is overpowered, then you don't play killer enough or at all.
Also MMR would not do anything to SWF groups. do you know how often I see survivors d/c because they don't like a certain killer, or are so entitled that they rage quit after being downed first? or simple throw matches so that they derank because they don't want to deal with Nurse, Spirit, or Billy who knows how to deal with their group-boosted antics?
Occasionally, I 2-man with a friend of mine. Games are significantly easier for the both of us because we can coordinate. I am rank 1 solo and with a friend so I can tell you I'm not one of these group-boosted types. But yes, SWF with comms is factually over powered, just because some squander the use of the tools allowed doesn't make it weak or ineffective.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233423#Comment_2233423
Hate to comment again, but every single killer in red rank has well over a 50% kill rate in the average solo que game. Killers are way favored according to the statistics.
which statistics? the meaningless ones used by the devs that don't actually prove anything because they are full of variables and devoid of context? while you're at it let's buff Nurse. remember, those same statistics say that nurse is under performing.
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@NomiNomad said:
Continuous killer nerfs?
You mean like the Wraith buffs we just recently got, the Demo buffs, the decisive and OoO nerfs, the hugely buffed Leatherface...
Yeah, continuous nerfs.
Both sides get constantly buffed and nerfs.
This game is multiplayer, people have a right to play with their friends, and not only are SWF's rarer then 'every game', but not every one is some sweaty powerhouse.
Can SWF have an advantage? Yes. Does that mean we should ban all SWF? No.
Killers have an advantage over Solo Queue. Should we ban killers that go sweaty against Solo Queue?
Your statement is fallacious:
Killer does not have advantage over solo que, it has been proven time and time again that Survivors are more powerful than the killer, both in the 1v1 and the 4v1. Killers have advantages only over survivors who do not know how to loop well and who are not efficient on generators.
SWF's allow survivors to provide themselves with a lot more information than they are intended to have and allows them to coordinate in ways the game does not allow. This provides an immense advantage over the killer who does not have any such benefit. Imagine if Killers could see all survivors auras at all times and knew what generators were at what percentage without having use a perk, or even if the entity would constantly block survivors from breaking their lit totems. The balance of the game would swing so drastically in favor of the killer that survivors would not strand much of a chance except at the highest level of play. So yes, SWFs do make a difference, just because some SWFs waste all their time bitching about a killer who downs them doesn't change the fact that SWFs make survivors unduly overpowered, create a situation of boosted and entitled survivors, and is very unfair for killer.
Remember the game was not designed around survivors being in coms and coordinated groups. Even after it's been allowed, nothing has been done to help balance the game, instead the devs have allowed for the game's balance to swing wildly in favor of survivors.
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@Jasix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207327#Comment_2207327
That's like saying there aren't many decent killers because they cried for a nerf to DS for the longest time....
Also known as a faulty generalization....
yeah but to be fair, DS really did need a nerf. It's fine now, much less able to be abused.
NOED was nerfed to the point that it can completely be disabled.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207386#Comment_2207386
So I'm not the only one!
nope. I see it frequently. though I don't often go wildly to the side, I have so I do know what you are talking about, most often the game says I missed even though I clearly watched my weapon pass through the survivor.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2207241#Comment_2207241
Aim dressing has been an issue for a long time and is under no control by the survivors, they zig zag to try and fake going left or right, if forcing killers to miss hits was as easy as zig zagging, everyone would be doing it.
oh no, that's not what he's talking about. by all measures the lunge should be a hit. what's he's talking about is when survivors, while standing in the same place suddenly jolt left-to-right so rapidly that either the lunge travels off into left field or the game gets "confused" and registers a fair hit as a miss because it can't properly track the survivor hitbox. hitreg tech specifically involves breaking the hit box to avoid being hit, it has nothing to do with psyching out killers or dodging. This is strait up some cheaty bullshit.
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@DarKaron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206061#Comment_2206061
For the record, I am all for fixing hit registration, but at the same time, there is an argument to be made for the stupid hitreg-tech that forces a Killer to whiff during a lunge by running back and forth excessively fast as you go about your business.
I know what you are talking about. From what i've been told that has something to do with both controllers and people who use a wiggle macro> Basically they turn the macro on so that it essentially breaks their hitbox before your hit would connect, turning a fair hit into a miss. the devs should absolutely be punishing macro abuse. I understand people who need it for disabilities, but that some people have figured out a way to make it an exploit tells me they need to rework the wiggle (like they did the struggle) and start treating macros like cheating.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205953#Comment_2205953
Survivors have taken hits to finish gens before for years too and has nothing to do with cancelling the grab, if you stay on the gen and no you can't finish it, you stand take a hit and finish the gen knowing you can finish it while they blade wipe.
Absolutely nothing to do with grab cancel issue.
taking hits is part of the problem with survivors not being afraid of killers, killers use grabs to counter survivors who want to take the hit and go on their merry way but since grabs are broken high rank survivor wait for the grab in stead knowing they either wait and time the animation to bug out the killer or they take the hit anyway. I've seen rank 1 survivors dc after they mistimed the exploit and got themselves grabbed, which messes with the killer even more. so yes, this exploit is a problem because it too also breeds entitlement.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206083#Comment_2206083
You mean the thing survivors have no control over or? lmao
Again, this is like trying to punish killers for getting hits they shouldn't have, it's desync and no one can force it but VPNers.
But survivors do have control over this, which is why it's an exploit. High rank survivors especially are nearly impossible to grab and do things such as sitting on generators until you go to grab them, canceling your grab, and finishing off the generator while you are stuck in animation or bugged out. Hits are calculated by the killer as part of server design, this however is a bug that is commonly exploited.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206134#Comment_2206134
I know, I told you that I agreed it shouldn't be punished but rather fixed. Not sure where the misunderstanding came from, but I'm glad we can come to an agreement and say it needs to be fixed ASAP.
Punishing wouldn't be fair in my opinion since it's not like this broken bug created hook baiting, people having been baiting forever. If the developers broke hook grabs, that's on them, not on the hook baiters to stop doing it. If it was a super broken bug that made hook baiting unstoppable, I can agree we need to let people know that this isn't okay, but this bug isn't close to making hook baiting OP.
Hook baiting may not be OP but due to how weak killers are, it is often a free escape. once a full health survivor reaches the hook the options are to sit there and loose the hooked survivor or just give it to them. This is also what I mean by survivors making stupid moves, survivor mains know they have no reason to fear killers (and still call for nerfs anyway), they know, that in a horror game, the scariest thing on the map is them...not the monstrosity out to shove meat hooks through them.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205247#Comment_2205247
Not necessarily, I had some matches where I turned a situation like this into 4ks. It all depends on the situation imo.
it also depends on what killer you are running. certain killers (bubba, billy, myers, gf) can do this because of their instant downs other killers not so much, not even doctor because he has to charge up shock therapy and has a delay on when he can M1 after...which is another issue entirely: why give the doc a stun if you limit his ability to follow up on it? It's the whole reason they reworked him in the first place
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205931#Comment_2205931
Baiting gens is only a thing because they know the grab cancel is a thing :)
Hook baiting makes sense.
I do agree that hook baiting to some end makes sense, however because of the grab cancel that exists there as well it makes it incredibly unfair since even if the killer would get the grab they either sit there bugged out or take a swing anyway. What I think would be fair is if survivors had to lock in for at least 1 or 2 seconds which would still allow them to bait but also entirely remove the exploit by not allowing them to cancel the grab.
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@Moundshroud said:
Why would the DEV punish a so-called Tech? It isn't a cheat. I grab people all the time; I pride myself on it. They can Tech you and you can Tech them. :)
"Window-Teching" is a prime example of why devs should punish "techs". Holding an item because a bug lets you run through the killer's hitbox to confuse them is exploiting and thus cheating.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205357#Comment_2205357
The whole point is to bait a hit so they can trade, it has nothing to do with trying to get you to grab them and fail at grabbing, people have been tapping hooks to bait trade saves since forever.
I know, I've been around since the beginning. What I'm saying is that because of how busted grabs are even what should have been a grab will turn into a hit. so the action isn't just a psych out, it's a combination of the psych out and the glitch. If this glitch were to be fixed, the tapping at unhooks would probably not be as effective as it is and thus less often abused because it's more risky
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@bm33 said:
NOED is a pretty cool perk for end game situations like that. Starstruck is another cool one.
star struck only works when you are carrying a survivor, not well after they have already been hooked and NOED has very obvious counters that can prevent it from ever coming into play. Once NOED is gone, nothing can stop this exploit and it's always in play.
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@CoalTower said:
No. That's the only way to save against someone truly committing to face camping.
Normally I would agree however it's used even when killers aren't face camping. Survivors haphazardly diving the hook knowing the most likely will not be punished for doing so. I agree face camping at any time other than the end of the match is also bad and should be punished but even then there are moments where survivors are extremely aggressive about hook saves on the first hook of the match. Moreover the devs actually said that camping is a legitimate way to play the game, the devs also swiftly punish any killer caught using or abusing exploits in the game...
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205243#Comment_2205243
It very well could be. It's harder to see on Console, because a lot of the time, you aren't getting as much visual info due to lower framerates.
PC, 60+ frames. it's not a frame rate issue for me.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205313#Comment_2205313
It is not "borderline cheating". There is either Cheating or not Cheating. This is not cheating, it is in the game, you are allowed to cancel actions and the game allows also to tap Generators.
But we can easily remove the ability to cancel any action - have fun with Deathslinger being forced to shoot, Huntress being forced to throw a Hatchet, Trapper being forced to set a Trap and so on.
it's borderline because it's a bug/exploit, and known bug/exploit that has simply been allowed to remain by devs turning a blind eye. It's not allowed, according to the ruls, but it's being permitted regardless so it is cheating, but only borderline because it's not enforced or fixed.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205229#Comment_2205229
People baited hits way before the grab bug.
it's one thing to be baiting for a hit, the issue is that the bug also ends in the same result so only if a survivor does more than tap a hooked survivor can they be grabbed.
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@Hex_Llama said:
There are two different things. There's the thing where survivors tap unhook to bait you into a hit (which I think is fair), and then there's The Work of the Devil, where the server tries to do a grab and then changes its mind and nothing happens.
The situation where you're in EGC and all four survivors are alive and three of them are healthy and they swarm the hook is a losing situation. It feels really bad, because there's nothing you can do, and they can essentially unhook in your face and get away 99% of the time. One of the frustrations with this game is that sometimes you lose before the moment you actually lose, and then you have to play out the rest of the match anyway.
Which only serves as example of the problem I am complaining about. the reason survivors bait the hit, which I disagree, it's utterly unfair, is BECAUSE of that very work of the devil you are talking about. they know they can more often than not glitch the grab for a free getaway, even if they take a hit for it. The only reason why the bait works is because of the grab glitch/exploit which allows them to dive hooks and not have to worry about trading.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2205222#Comment_2205222
But then if the survivors really do commit it doesn't give you the grab anyway. This is an issue even if you don't care for it.
No, but then survivors must actually take risks for their actions rather than getting things for free. Like stopping a gen from degrading mid chase, imagine if it took survivors as long to start working on a generator as it did the killer to kick it? it would certainly balance a lot of the game, no longer would looping around a gen to protect it from degrading be a thing, if anything it would hurt the team by keeping the killer near it.
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@th3 said:
I’d take that to make killers fully commit on their powers. It would mean huntress/trickster/pyramid head/deathslinger would all have to commit on their throws, trapper/hag would have to commit to setting their traps, Myers can’t 99, wraith just uncloaks immediately instead of repositioning to try and bodyblock me, billy can’t feather, pretty much any killer who has mind game potential with their power gets that taken away. That’s a great trade off for having to commit on unhooks and gen progression.
Aiming is different from not committing, and yes there is a penalty to canceling a throw/shot there is a small delay between lowering their projectile and being able to use their melee; you would know this if you played killer. Survivors suffer no such delay for any of their actions and canceled actions. the same applies for Hag and Trapper, they can't immediately M1. Myers needs to build up to that 99 which takes committing to stalking to achieve. Both chainsaws require a charge up time to be able to "feather", again commitment to action. LOL do you really want wraith to be able to instantly uncloak? I'm sure every wraith main would agree with you...and every swf group would cry.
If you need me to go on I will. Once again, all killers are required to commit to any action they take. Survivors are not.
Since we are in agreement, the devs really would not have to do anything to killer as part of this balance.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
"there are four of them and the devs need to stop rewarding them for stupid plays."
Sounds more like smart plays. Let alone that the Killer does not have to commit to every action, otherwise we would not have stuff like faking powers and other things.
Survivors diving hooks or tapping a degrading gen with zero penalty is exploiting glitches and bad mechanics. It's not smart, it's borderline cheating. No survivor is going to stop mid chase to work on a generator, so why then should they be rewarded for doing exactly that?
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@gatsby said:
wouldn't be a problem if killers just took the free trade and didn't get greedy for grabs
It's not a free trade when the survivor is at full health and there are one or two more ready to body block + the unhooked with bt blocking all for a free escape. the grab IS what makes it a trade. Survivors enjoy too much in the way of exploits, it's ridiculous.
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@Pilot said:
I've played solo / 2 man / 3 man / 4 man SWF
I can confirm that ... Matchmaking is busted. What a surprise.
We've gotten purple and green ranks before even though we were all rank 1. Very rarely, it would happen that we would get a killer that's above rank 10.
In the case of where I was running 2 man and 3 man SWF we would sometimes get a purple / green rank teammate and a red rank killer. or a green rank survivor and a green rank killer.
Conclusion: Ranking is all over the place... Even Solo, 2 days ago I got placed against green ranks when I was red rank myself. I stood in Que for a while as well.
Yeah, match making has been busted long before this debacle with rank reset lol, now it's even worse XD
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@RepostRiposte said:
I was rank 1 on both sides and have 1000+ hours
I am now rank 19 survivor, which shouldn't even be possible for me to reach after going above rank 16
Another person I stream with, well I appear in her streams I mostly record dbb for yt, she's been dropped down to rank 20 for not playing and skipping rank resets. Happened to me too when I picked dbd back up again in September, I had to start as a Rank 20 even though prior to that I'd reached rank 1 with both survivor and killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
"Due to unfortunate circumstances I have not been able to play much dbd for two rank resets. This has put me from rank 1 to rank 10"
Do you not think this has happened to anyone else rather than it always being intentional?
Believe me I do consider these things when it occurs every now an again. A fellow streamer of mine hadn't played in so long she was down at rank 20. The issue being is that high rank players should very easily find their way out of green and purple ranks and there have been so many players, typically between ranks 10-6 who clearly don't belong at those ranks. The reason why I bring up the topic all together is because a fair amount of games involving players affected by this bug or smurfs have consisted of 3-4 players, usually claiming to be solo, behaving extremely toxic both in game and post game, and playing with such an obvious degree of coordination that there is no way you could convince me they weren't in coms.
As for me, my survivor was reset to a proper level given my rank, my killer was reset to rank 10, but I also missed 2 rank resets so I kind of expected that. I saw the memo from BHVR on the log in screen in game but otherwise had no idea what the effects of this "rank reset bug" were.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Because just like you think that tunneling, camping and slugging are legit tactics because getting a 4k at all costs is the way the game must be played, these guys think that genrushing etc are the way the game must be played.
congratz, you are complaining about your image in the mirror
You are aware that I never said anything like that, right? this is what we call a straw-man argument.
My point in calling out certain behaviors is to highlight the simple fact that this is behavior I only see up in high ranks, especially when dealing with well organized teams. I did not make any statements regarding the legitimacy or illegitimacy of any play style. hate to say it but you sound like a typical survivor main of any rank.
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@AnneBonny said:
nah man just gnomes
dude, I totally found the gnome!!!
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@onemind said:
Some are probably smurfs the others are people with the rank bug where it took them back more ranks than it was supposed to
Tldr mostly rank reset bugs
wasn't aware of this bug. thanks for the heads up
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187109#Comment_2187109
The impossible to reach totem spots have been fixed months ago. Now totems spawn next to gens or at the survivors spawn point.
Making hex perks useless.
I mean the "totally-not-an-exploit-according-to-Mandy-and-Gay-Myers" breakdown was fixed before and yet still leaves hooks broken all match. somehow I don't fully believe they are fixed, no offense to you of course. nevertheless fixing broken totem placement by making them even easier to find is an equally bad solution compared to the problem.
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Yes, Coal Tower is the most balanced. That is also happens to be the second smallest map is telling. If they are the same size then I'm not sure what about them is so different as I struggle with them far more now that I did before, especially with 110% killers. Shelter woods is only more killer sided now because it's brighter, thus harder to become completely immersed compared to the incredibly dark older version.
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@Tsulan said:
It would be a good and fair perk IF the totem spawns were not so horrible.
on some maps the totem spawns are broken making it impossible to reach or even find if the totem spawns outside of the mesh
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@nursewannabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2184768#Comment_2184768
Well, i was saying it because I use it quote often and it perfectly suits my playstyle especially matched with bbq
I just want to be clear that I don't think it's a bad perk. There are issues with it that make it so easy to abuse that it's basically the new NOED but worse, rather than being an end game "crutch" it's a mid game "crutch" because you can get all 6 tokens without killing a single survivor and it only get's easier to get tokens the more hooks you get. that isn't to say that everyone uses it as a crutch, much like NOED, but it's becoming so common to see that I have begun expecting it in every match and that is part of what makes it unhealthy; the risk no longer outweighs the reward.
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All of the new maps are physically bigger, bigger maps are always survivor sided.
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@Johnagon_Infinity said:
I play mostly killer, so do with that bias what you will. That being said, every time I run this perk, I usually get about 3 tokens before the survivors find it and pop it. DevHope is best suited with undying. Hex perks have so much RNG involved, it's a huge gamble to bet your late game on them. Just today, I was playing against a Clown, in the solo que red ranks. We got about 4 gens done before his DevHope got 5 tokens. Soon as we realized it, it was too late. He'd killed two people who had no hook states. We ended up not escaping, and I safety pipped.
In the end game chat, I just said "GG". The other two survivors were salty and mad as hell. They said DevHope was an OP perk, and that he couldn't have won without it. All I wanted to say was "Yeah.... and?" It was our job as survivors to find his totem and break it as soon as he had 3 tokens and we knew of its existence. Devour Hope is not OP because it has so many counters. Hex Totems are a big part of the game and, at this point, should be accounted for by all survivors.
I agree insomuch that I don't think DH is OP per se, the issue comes from comboing it with other perks that give it more life and power than it needs or otherwise encourages toxic/cheap behaviors in order to make it work (obviously this is not a jab at everyone or even most players who run DH). It's like BT and the issues with BT blocking, in other words exploiting a perk to do something that is not intended by the perk. In this case, DH is supposed to reward killers who allow rescues but in practice it is much more rewarding to killers who camp and use hooks for easy bait. Because of this DH isn't itself OP, however I do believe, as a killer main, that it is an unhealthy perk. I wouldn't want to see it nerfed, just tweaked to make it less meta or avoid being abused. Sadly because I don't have a suggestion for how to fix that much and in reality there may not be a real solution other than completely reworking the perk which really won't be a good option until keys are removed and mori's become base kit for killers.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2184768#Comment_2184768
This doesn't make sense. A killer has no choice but to be 24 meters away from the hook if they want to get use out of devour hope. Its not regarding the terror radius it just has to be the killer in general. Proxy camping is something else.
so how does the killer camp NEAR the hook without letting other survivors know they are there? by hiding their terror radius...i'm honestly surprised you didn't think of that...it's same as insidious camping
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@HaunterofShadows said:
Devour Hope is fine because it discourages camping.
@nursewannabe said:
It's the ultimate anti camping and tunneling perk, i love it
@deckyr said:
i have yet to actually use it as a killer (typically hex perks just aren't to my taste since they can be removed) but from a survivor pov, i find it completely fine.
not only is it an extremely healthy perk that promotes the killer roaming instead of camping, they get a hefty reward for doing so. it's like the "all grown up" version of BBQ where instead of getting baby's first bloodpoints you get to win instead. and it leads to some extremely tense moments. this single perk instantly changes the shape of the match halfway through and is always a really fun and exciting surprise.
y'know, if it got a good spawn location. with the changes to small game, i expect devour hope has become much harder to pull off.
I completely disagree. the perk, on paper, discourages camping; in practice however, devour hope is used in combination with a number of perks/abilities used to hide one's terror radius specifically so they can camp the hook at around minimum range. this includes Monitor as well as insidious. I've seen this especially on slingers, GF, myers, etc. Devour hope doesn't discourage camping, it only discourages blatant face camping.
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I do agree that killers need a strong perk and that devour hope, by itself, is fine although a bit unhealthy for the game. the decision to nerf undying but allow it to save a totem's perks makes devour over powered. combine that with bbq on killers with range/tracking and it's not going to be a fun match.
I'm a killer main and lately it seems the majority of my survivor games see killers running devour/bbq and then tunneling and actually proxy camping to get cheap and fast tokens. It's basically become the killer's equivalent to the key as it ends games way to fast and robs survivors who played well. I do want to see killers getting strong perks and I do appreciate the devs doing more to better hide totems but what killers need is a general buff to their powers to make them viable and perks that allow them to compete with survivors. I don't think devour hope is the right answer, it can be a fun perk but I feel something more should be done to help avoid it ever being a meta perk due to how unhealthy it is for the game (much like keys).
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@[Deleted User] said:
Whenever getting hit through a window after taking like 3 steps from it- whenever more dedicated server improvements come.
It's not a bug directly, it's dedicated servers deciding you didn't do it.
That's what I mean though, servers calculate hits in favor of killer when considering latency...so why don't they do the same thing for a grab? I mean it's so ridiculously safe that survivors will just sit on a gen or totem, milking every last second from them, knowing that they can get away from a well earned/deserved grab by letting go after the grab is triggered. It really swings an unreasonable amount of favor to survivors who are knowingly making risky or stupid moves because they know there is little or no threat form being instant-downed by way of grab.