SquirrelKnight
SquirrelKnight
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@Weederick said:
They have to understand why tunneling is so strong and balance the whole genrush vs killrush meta around a longer game. If they increased gen and sacrifice times by 20%, the chase time has less of an impact.
Its not about removing camping, but balancing it, so players dont naturally start to camp to win the game. Imagine if it was simply more efficient to patrol gens and play fair, tryhards would automatically camp less. But the way how strong 1vs3 is and how fast you can remove a survivor, you can always fall back to that strat. Genrush and tunnelcamp is too strong, they need to buff alternatives
Hey somebody understood the discussion i was trying to create 👍
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@LALYTHIA said:
I dont understand the question, because I never camp/tunnel in my matches. I would...play the game?
So you didnt read the post 👍
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268264#Comment_1268264
NOED doesn't do anything to slow down the game. Survivors thinking that the killer has NOED might slow the game down because they'll be spending time cleansing totems, but they can't know whether NOED is or is not in play until the endgame, so whether or not the killer actually has it equipped is irrelevant in that sense. It works as part of an endgame build, and that's fine, but that's one build, it's not anywhere near the only option. And it works as a safety net, and that's also fine - safety nets are designed to compensate when things go wrong. But relying on the safety net to catch you every single time probably means you're not a very good tightrope walker.
As for many killers needing old Ruin, again, I think that's largely a matter of perception. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's experience, but the fact that kill rates haven't completely plummeted since the rework would suggest that perhaps Ruin was not quite as crucial to success as many believed.
Eh fair enough.
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@List_of_concerns said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268235#Comment_1268235
I really wish you'd rephrase this...
You use it because it's one of the only Perks that allows you to have a chance of winning after you've, for all intents and purposes, already lost.
I'm pretty sure SWF are less common than dead zones and proxy camping (at least in my region and/or on my platform). Are you really taking the time to check profiles and friend lists? After all, that is how you confirm a SWF exists.
No, until the survivors are out the gate, they havent won. And as far as SWF ive had to start checking myself because i see 4 flashlights and claudettes in muddy clothing pop up more than i care to :/ heck 3-4 Swf are a real pain for me, bigest being 3 cause then theres one solo getting cucked as well
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@Fibijean said:
From what I've heard, everyone who used to rely on Ruin to slow the game down enough that they could win now relies on NOED to secure last-minute kills instead. There has been a popular, and largely false, idea floating around since the Ruin rework that it's no longer possible for killers to apply enough pressure to kill all survivors prior to the endgame, so NOED is necessary to compensate. That kind of thing tends to be self-perpetuating - the more people believe it, the more people do it, and the more they do it, the more it solidifies their belief that it's the only viable strategy. In reality, most killers have adapted and are getting along fine without Ruin (or NOED) now that the shock has worn off, but for some that kind of mentality can be hard to shake.
Its more the fact that NOED does one of two things, slows down the match to help less mobile killers get something done, or, if the killer does get rushed with a shirt game, gives the killer a shot at getting someone cause the game was short. Yeah there are uses outside these two but these two are the main uses. Despite what you might think, yeah, a good amount of killers needed something like old ruin.
In responces to the DS DH and stuff. As killer side, i usually see at least 2 adrenalines, 2 DS 1 BT and 3 Dead hards every game. Its gets boring whenever i try and do anything only.to have it undone. Not saying this is ALL survivor groups. Just my personal experience.
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@BongRips4Wraith said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1267831#Comment_1267831
AFKing repeatedly to ruin the opposite sides matches/attempting to depip is absolutely ban-worthy.
Always report them, if it's just a one time thing they wont be punished. If the do it repeatedly to depip/grief long survivor queues, they will get punished.
Depends on the afk, is the match super onesided? Maybe something happens and they have to get up but dont want a dc. Maybe they take 10 steps and three gens pop instantly, if the killer is just standing there you can get plenty of points and pip all you want, hell eveb the killer can safety pip if the survivors farm the body, getting in and out of chases.
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Endgame build? Its a good perk if survivors dont cleanse totems? I see survivors cleanse totems all the time and it helps when i decide to run it on killers with low mobility or map control.
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The obscuring corn maps are a pain to play in. I dont mind some to obscure vision but when the majority of the map is just a hard to see through mess it is just frustrating.
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1. plague, maibly infect objects and track with her, semi slug build, shes fun and i do well. Shes fun and can be crazy strong v ppl who cleanse.
2. Freddy, i dont really play him much anymore because he just doesnt feel that interesting. Hes good but eeh.
3. Legion, ooooohhh im loving legion, i love stalling the game and making people have to waste time. A few maps screw me cause travel is wonky but i am having a grande ol time.
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Yeah, i started playing him myself, hes fun but i think the penalties fir missing are a tad too intense. Kinda perk dependent but hes not the worst killer
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I dont play much survivor, a lot of my palls who i used to Swf with left (inb4 swf scum group, we literally just talked about whatever and happend to be playing this game) since i swapped to a killer main though i see the toxic 3 man Swf a lot, usually its the solo i let live and do stuff. Frankly the 3 man dicks over the solo and its annoying to watch. I saw a 3 man DC so i let the solo farm gens totems and the sort and i downed him a couple times and let him wiggle free. Let him walk out those gates like a CHAMPION
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Careful with hooking everyone once, one immersed blendette and your mori is trash
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You know, camping really isnt the problem people think it is, its more the feeling that unsafe hooks shouldnt exist. I think certain people just want to be able to walk up to the hook with no opposition and save their friend. Its almost like survivors want bots rather than an actual human player to play against.
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@TheButcher said:
If you're the last 2 survivors, with 3 gens remaining. Don't start to play a big game of Hide and Seek waiting for the other one to get caught, and killed, so you can take hatch. That's effectively taking the game hostage. Just try to do gen's, help each other, and finish the game.
I honestly really wish dev's would make it so Killer's can surrender to stop this from happening. It's happened way too many times for me, and it just hoenstly shouldn't be possible in the first place. The Hatch was the worst thing to get added to the game.
The amount of times im forced to stop chasing because the last 2 ppl run to the far corner of the map to heal is a pain. Theres no win scenario for me here. Let them fully heal or give them free gens...
Edit: almost forgot to post mine
Id love it if i didnt get bmed for camping once the gens are done. I go out of my way to try amd make a game.fun but when exit gates are ready and i havent killed anyone cause i played to let people do stuff then i dont see the problem with taking one person. Usually i get hookrushed by everyone, even when i do t i get yelled at for camping. Maybe nexttime i should play tryhard instead of linger more fun match 🤷♂️
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I just think that maybe swfs need to be able to take fewer perks into a game, excluding customs. Or maybe give killers a buff based on the swf
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Anti camping measures were taken a long time ago. Survivors abused it by skirting the radius so the killer had to stay with a delayed hook timer or give a free unhook. Any anticamping mechanism can be abused and according to the past experiences, it will be.
Edit: in particular to facecamping i get that but also before that rework bubba cause thats all he has going for him right now
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Yeah, i just started playing him hes kinda fun
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The amount of times ive had survivorss tbag spam at the hatch because there o/is LITERALLY nothing i can do is insane. Disheartening after a really good game where ot was down to the wire, hook the third guy, spend forever looking for guy 4 to see him tbagging and not doing anything. Only going down the hatch when i get.too close
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@Entity_Hugs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1263100#Comment_1263100
See? They do things like use peer pressure to try and convince you that you HAVE to play by their made up rules or you're somehow a lesser player.
You know, i think i get it now.
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I always thought tunnelling involved focusing on one person above all else. Not a fun thing to do. Basically exactly ehat @premiumRICE said
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Didn't expect this thread to blow up this fast, thanks guys, i feel better knowing what im doing is hook defense
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259696#Comment_1259696
I understand what you’re saying, but if you have a free chase why are you choosing to defend the hook rather than add additional pressure?
No one is forcing you to stay at the hook because you see 2 survivors in full view. Pick one to chase and go with it. It’s not a hard concept to grasp.
Because you didnt get any pressure from it. One person on hook with 2 ppl trolling and one doing gens, or 3 people doing gens with one trolling.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1260158#Comment_1260158
15 second rule. If the heartbeat doesn't vanish in around that time (unless the signs are obvious), then just do gens and leave the poor bastard on the hook. I know it sucks for them, and it's super lame, but their struggle time is +3 escapes if the game is played right. No reason to risk a close game turned by something like NOED at the last minute because people had to bumrush the hook.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1260342#Comment_1260342
Yes. Correct. The only reason I lose most of my games (and I do ######### up sometimes, but not habitually), is due to hook bombing, good pallets going to waste early, and being sandbagged by teammates (happens more often than you think).
Yeah, hook bombing turned a 1k into a 3k for me. Last oerson left and said i was camping basement 😢
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@metalklok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1256196#Comment_1256196
play how you want don't let the survivors tell you how to play. Its the most ass backwards way of thinking why would you let your opponent play for you.
The mentality comes from how killers are expected.to.behave on the forums and via postgame chat
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259327#Comment_1259327
I can't remember, but I have so many games that go this poorly it wouldn't surprise me.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1258900#Comment_1258900
I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify?
I think he is trying to say that people who "camp" are basically patrolling around the hook rather than facecamping but do it for too long?
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259177#Comment_1259177
Survivors struggling on a hook are not spitefully delaying a game. End of conversation. LOL
I'm not going to debate whether or not survivors can waste time in other ways. Obviously they can. In this case, no. They are not.
Struggling on hook? Thats not delaying it at all. Plus if you noticed my comment i said survivors are more likely to play spitefully cause its easier. Dont put words in my mouth lal
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@BadMrFrosty said:
I'll avoid dropping too big of a novel here, but I'd like for everyone to think about the following:
- If a teammate is getting camped or 'patrolled', just do the generators and leave the match. This robs the killer of a lot of points, stops them from snowballing, and shows them that in order to catch survivors, they'll actually have to play the game.
- Most of you do anything but generators for the entirety of the match and wonder why killers 4k so much. If one average person gets chased and caught within 25 - 40 seconds, a bunch of generators can be close to finished, 3 to be exact.
- At any one point in time, two people can be on generators (assuming one hooked survivor) while one scouts for a potential save. If the killer is camping, see the solution at the top of this list.
- Run DS/unbreakable. Seriously. Do it. Slugging is only so effective, and leaving you on the ground due to fear of DS in combination with this perk gives the killer a no win scenario. Either leave you on the ground for unbreakable, pick you up and eat a DS, or babysit your body for 60 seconds which is a lot of free generator time. There is no scenario here where the killer is in complete control. Losing to slug strategies should be a thing of the past with that particular perk combination. Unbreakable is one of the top 5 perks in this game, especially against good killers. Killers that pick you up immediately every time they secure a down aren't the ones you'll worry about.
- Bumrushing hooks contributes to killer snowballing. What I've seen in a lot of games is that most killers will lurk around the hook for a bit to look for any potential unhookers. They test to see how altruistic the team is, but unless they've hard committed to just camping every hook, most killers will go away from the hook when generators start popping. Don't bumrush hooks, you're only putting the game in the hands of the killer.
- During the endgame collapse, don't be afraid to leave the last person on the hook. Unless you have the correct combination of perks or the killer you're going against has weak hook defense, don't risk giving them more kills than they deserve. Killers count on altruistic saves to turn games from 0K into 3-4K. Don't give undeserved kills.
- Don't stack up on generators together. It is less efficient, as the risk of having the killer chase multiple people off of one generator isn't worth the slight increase to repair speed. Split up on generators or find new ones if you encounter teammates stacking on one. You'll find your games will go much smoother this way.
- Choose which generators to prioritize finishing to avoid a 3 gen scenario. Many games I've been in have been sabotaged by people just holding M1 on the first generator they see without any regard for its position. The general rule is: try to do the generators on either side closest to the middle, that way, the killer will have to travel a longer distance during their patrol if the furthest generators are left. This, in turn, gives the entire team more time to finish the remaining generators.
I could add more, but I feel like this should be more than enough. I've played way more survivor these days than killer, and if every survivor had this mindset, I swear to god most killers would quit this game until some real balance or mechanical overhauls took place. That's all, folks!
Edit: One strategy that survivors don't technically contribute toward is tunneling. If a killer is going to do this, then there's not much you can do other than make yourself incredibly difficult to catch. Best case scenario, you run the killer for the entirety of the match and you get out anyway. Worst case? Three people leave the game and one dies.
Edit 2: DS/Unbreakable can be considered a soft counter to tunneling, but doesn't always guarantee an escape.
Did you play a match against me last night? I feel like you saw the travesty of basement rushing that happened to me. A 0K to a 3K
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@Exonaut_X said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/929/WUCGF12RGGQZ.jpg
I really like to play survivor, but everyone is play with friends and I can't find a lobby. I'm a ps4 player and sometimes I wait 10 minutes to play as a survivor. When I finally find a match I can understand that the other 3 survivor are communicating and the don't care unusually to save from the hook. So I have to play as killer and when I immediately find 4 survivors at the same second at my lobby... Haha I have to play boosted Myers to make things equal. Any other who feels the same... Must take Myers and upgrade him all the time. I'm tired of survivor friends 🔪💀
I dont even mind 2 SWF. I am totally fine if yall wanna have a fun game but way too many perks synergize with comms to make it feel a little cheap
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Rank 14 killer (New personal Best) getting stuck cause either i stomp because of massive altruism or i get groups that never leave trackmarks and i dont see.the entire game. I saw someone, hit him with hatchet he bolted off, got instahealed by someone else. I managed to hook that person but once they got saved that was it. I kinda dont know what to do.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1259259#Comment_1259259
I wish we could get the reverse treatment for once; The devs play against godly sweaty seal team 6 SWF for a few games and actually do something about SWF for once.
Ssshh thats just a killer conspiracy to keep solos down
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At low ranks survivor is harder, at high ranks killer is harder. Thats the way i kinda look at it
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Depends on the person, if they are using OoO or instahealing other survivors then sometimes its just optimal to deal with them first. Massive disrespect (constant tbagging and clicking) just because its annoying and rude. Most of the time i try not to tunnel though
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Is MMR gonna be calculated differently for SWF or SOLO? cause if it isnt then rank is gonna be heavily inflated.
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I dont get why iri heads are considered so powerful. They are fairly easy to dodge even point blank because of the turn radius of survivors.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1257489#Comment_1257489
No one is needlessly delaying the game to spite the Killer. Survivors have every right to be annoyed that Devs obviously care mainly about Killer QoL right now. The last survivor in a match has ALWAYS been cucked. Game is stacked against them. They never got to even kobe (even if they have Deliverance), nor did they get struggle points despite it being their first hook. Which makes no sense and is robbing them of the opportunities every other survivor who died before them had. Instead of fix this issue, they compounded it by robbing everyone in struggle phase who gets hooked of their last points of struggle. All so Killers aren't inconvenienced an extra 60 seconds while winning a match. This is ridiculously stupid. Killers already earn BP at a higher rate than survivors...so what do they do? Take more BP away from survivors. 🙄 This was not a broken mechanic in the game. This was not a terrible pain point for Killers. This change was literally just an unnecessary cuck to survivors. Which was really dumb.
Yeah survivors do meaninglessly delay the game, survivors are far more.likely to play spitefully like that. Because its so EASY for them.up.until very recently. Theres a reason more and more perks had to counter stealth
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@Nurgling7 said:
Killers aren't allowed to have synergy. The devs have stated that is the goal.
Sucks but..... Basically yeah
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@majorkaos said:
I don't have a character with DS, but I know it has a timer of 40/50/60 seconds which starts immediately after unhook. I'm fairly new to the game, yet I see people on the forum state they get hit with DS yet they are not tunneling. SO, how are you not tunneling if you get stunned by DS? Asking for a friend...
Because of a few things
1. Someone else can be downed and hooked and it still works but FAR more importantly in my opinion.
2. The person who has DS often will use it as 60 seconds of "look you cant hit me" often doing generators or healing in the killers face while the killer knows he cant do anything except eat a stun that costs him precious time.
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Cant speak for everyone but i know how bad luck can go, if i see someone just having a hard game (runing into me as the killer a lot) sometines ill down them, shake my head pick them up and let them wiggle free. Tunneling sucks but i cant be expected to always ignore the weaker target. But if im not pressed for time ill just let the go
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@premiumRICE said:
Facecamping the first guy you down its not a strat, and no sane killer would ever do that.
also theres difference in dying after having played the game and dying cause you are being taken hostage.
Actually, there is a reason. And this happens to me a lot. I hook random person and i turn around, 3 ppl hiding behind crap ready to rescue. I strike at one of them and spook them away, start to leave and then they run in before.im.gone to save like WAT
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@Seanzu said:
I think we should start punishing killers who AFK when they have a bad game too, if a killer isn't chasing up until the moment the match finishes then they shouldn't have queued at all.
Same problem.as.the hook, when do you count it as AFK? If i see 4 ppl teabagging because the matchmaking is so bad it makes the match impossible you better believe im getting up and making a sandwich. Doesnt happen often, HOWEVER when i have to deal with a 4swf half the time i cant even see them because im being xalled out. Doesnt happen at all with 2swf and 3 swf is a coordinated pain but semimanageable
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@Monika said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249500#Comment_1249500
I'm fairly confident that's just due to an SWF Manipulation.
I think it tries to balance to lowest person so if you had 2 rank 1s and a rank 20 ud get a rank 20 killer. That being said ive had sweaty red rank 4swf teams in yellow ranks. It kinda kills the mood for a bit
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1252287#Comment_1252287
Originally bloodlust was added to counter INFINITE looping. However entity blockers were added, some strong windows were completely removed, strong structures got doors next to windows now, some strong pallets were completely removed etc. so at some point people will have to say good bye to the outdated bloodlust mechanic and catch survivors the legit way using their powers as intended.
Personally I think bloodlust is also unhealthy for the game psychologically as it makes bad killers think it will make short work of that one survivor that simply outperforms them leading to even longer chases. After the excessive chase killers usually just facecamp out of frustration.
Without bloodlust killers would quickly learn to not over-commit to chases and switch targets.
Absoluetly at SOME point it needs to be removed, but while chases CAN last 3-5 minutes it needs to be a thing. Switching targets is important but how many times can you flat out ignore someone before you fall behind because you Had to drop the chase.
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Wow, i know survivors wanna claim killer bias but this is insane. Killers and survivors have both had a lot of changes, the problem here is that while looping is a mechanic and fair to do, bloodlust should also be in there to add a bit of urgency to losing the killer. Even with the changes to the maps it is still an important aspect.
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A couple things from this thread. With the "counters" do ds and borrowed time. Anything that involves the killer not having a way around something other than to ignore his objective is a problem. Itd be like saying the Real counter to NOED is to simply not do generators then it wont activate. Plus i think the complaints about DS and stuff are more once the gens are done, because if a gate is being opened and you get DSed then you have no options but to slug and watch him crawl out.
More to the point of the thread though, survivors like to play "efficient." What this means is that "doing bones" isnt a fair answer to countering NOED because they arent on generators. Remember this, the faster the game the easier for the survivors (generally). So any ability the killer has to draw out the game is a problem for them (hense the ruin nerf) because it made people get off the generator or at least spend 16ish seconds doing a totem and not a generator.
So why NOED is flamed so hard is because it makes survivors have to make a CHOICE. Extend the game for the killer, giving more time to set up, find people etc... Or they can rush the generators and the killer gets a surge of power in the shorter game. Survivors dont really have to WORK for a win, their role is a fairly passive one where they have large amounts of control on the progress of the game. Topped with the ability to flat out counteract or nullify killer powers with items or perks. All of this being said, the reason that NOED is hated so much is not because of poor design, it is designed to counter the quick speed of generators and groups that dont want interraction with the killer. The way to fix this is yes, "do the bones" because it creates a more interesting game for killer and survivor when both have the time to interact with eachother. If you want to tunnel someone early, get hit with decisive strike. If you want to rush the gens and 4man-escape NOED is there to help.
TL;DR NOED is supposed to stop the gen rush but entitled survivors want a 4 escape with no challenge.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250034#Comment_1250034
Okay then after you check them why stay?
Because the Survivors 3 gened themselves like lemmings but are gonna scream killer camping because survivors deserve a 4 escape
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@daddymyers3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250170#Comment_1250170
"long recharge time"
Demogorgon has a long recharge time as well...? and it can be lowered and a lot using addons (which are pretty common)
Literally just slap bbq + pop and that long recharge time isn't really a problem...
Dont know, dont play demobro, barely play freddy besides endgame builds. But his teleport has a huge notification and if you arent gone by the time that happens then thats your own fault. Maybe its cooldown is oppressive, never feels like it is though. Maybe just my experience with im 🤷♂️
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@daddymyers3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249911#Comment_1249911
The worst thing imo freddy has is the ez gen teleport.
Like why do other killers have to place a trap (hag) or a portal (demogorgon) or go all the way around but really fast to that gen (oni and hillbilly) but freddy just has to press LCTRL and you're in the other side of the map! congrats, 100% skill requried!
Cause it has a long recharge time and a big notification
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1246152#Comment_1246152
I don't see any perks. Hex perks are dead.
I only ever use haunted grounds, never get use out of it but hey its fun to imagine dem big brain olays
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@YumiiXO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1246708#Comment_1246708
But sometimes it's fun to play with friends back then I didn't even play the game that much because it got boring to me XD
Not saying that SWF wasnt something that needed to be their, you need to be able to play with your friends. But they didnt balance the game around it at all
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@MPUK said:
If you're rank 17 I feel bad that you're already jumping on the demonise SWF bandwagon. Don't focus on whether you're playing SWF or solo, just play the game. If you lose, you lose. If you win then you win. If you're taking it this serious at rank 17 when you lose you're going to give yourself a heart attack when you get to better ranks.
Just relax, remember it is just a game, so what if they are better and escape? You can't win them all
Thats not quite fair to say. The game didnt have SWF at the start because it wasnt intended. Then they added it and, yeah. In a game.like this it absolutley destroys balance. Its like have OoO without the killer seeing you while having extra wallhacks, forcing the killer to run terror radius enlarging perks all the while so many people in this community look at it and go " UuGhH SWF iS tOtAlLy FiNe, KiLlErS jUsT wAnT 4KEZ gIt GuD bBy KiLlEr."
TL;DR it isnt about winning or losing, its about being forced into a game where you literally can't do anything except get t-bagged and insulted cuz killer.