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I've noticed that instead of geeting L-shaped loops or wider loops, I'm getting more of those tiny unsafe loops. Now the killer either fakes me into vaulting than doubles back for the hit OR faking/continuing the loop just allows the killer to catch up enough that when you do go for the vault… He essentially gets a free hit. The double L walls are rough as well cause I feel like Killers have gotten pretty good at countering them.
It just feels like every update is measured in how can we make Survivor a more "skill-based" side AND how can we make Killer side "easier for them". It's been the trend for a few years now where killers are getting pampered with updates that make the game increasingly more challenging for survivors. From anti-loop killers to buffing speed + shrinking maps, etc…
Don't get me wrong there are some aspects of survivor SWF that results in some unfair advantages. Like the locker tech stuff is rough and I get that. Easy solution. Make it so Killer can't be stunned by the same perk more than once within x-amount of time. I have no issue with that and believe that is a fair and balanced change.
but ya pallets being screwed with is rough. I feel like I am forced to be super conservative with them because the moment one is thrown. That area feels like a barren wasteland and you run around only to feel like you can't find another pallet sometimes. I think if they really don't want to add pallets due to balancing issues. Then they should consider adding more windows in the map. They are limited via the amount of times you can vault and the killer still has the ability to counter them via perks.
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027704#Comment_4027704
If most of your matches end in losses, then you're playing with a low MMR, and judging by the comments, not very well. I've been playing for both teams for a very long time. And if you're the only one on your team trying to win, then you've lost the match from the start.
Oh I love this specific comment. See it used so often it's humorous. Most matches are loses, especially in solo queue. I can take a screenshot of my escape rate on my top survivors. If that's what you want? You do the same though. Go on DBD sign in and look at your statistics. I'd like to see your survivor escape rate as well. Cause this mentality of yours only comes from people who don't understand what general statistics are.
BHVR has shown and stated that the average escape rate is 4/10 give or take. Now maybe some will be closer to 30% or 50%. Although the general average is in the ball park of 40%. I love this cause you can tell zero thought or even reason went behind typing those words. I have played both sides as well. I took a break mind you but Legion was my first killer purchase and I quit mainly due to new part. People complain about gen rushing these days clearly never played against OG new part gen rushing.This whole "I played both sides…" shtick is umm meaningless cause everyone says that. Also the typical, well then you are playing in low mmr and not playing as well as you think yada yada. I love this type of brainrot commentary. It takes a certain kind of neglecting of logic to say this stuff.
Cause it means you don't understand how solo queue mmr works. You don't understand how teams are balanced resulting in a mixed bag of players ranging from experienced to amateur/new players. It also is funny cause mate I would love to play on low mmr. I am not in high mmr, I don't play that competitively but I am in the medium-high mmr area give or take(most likely). Low mmr is where killers are goofing off usually. The lack of awareness to low mmr killer shenanigans is telling me you probably don't play survivor side as much as you would have others believe lol. When I returned to dbd the reason I enjoyed survivor so much was due to low mmr and the straight funny and goofy killers you versed. I promise you I haven't seen one of those in a long time but I welcome them lol. The killers I get are experienced. They know how to avoid flashlight saves 9/10 times. Also, they have a good understanding of how to use their power strategically. Which again doesn't fit you low mmr mentality lol.
In fact if you win most of your matches I'll accept defeat against you man. DBD has statistic. Log in, show me your stats man. Show me that the top 1-3 survivors that you play with dozens of hours have a 60%+ escape rate. If you are SWF in high mmr with coordinated teams, perhaps this is possible… Otherwise, you talking out where the sun don't shine. Seriously, screenshot and quote me the escape rates on your survivors and if it's way up there I'll admit defeat against you. -
@orevuh said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027704#Comment_4027704
Nah you are 10000% wrong especially when u said killers can make a mistake and still win the game. That's literally survivors. As a killer if u make 1 or 2 mistakes you are likely to lose the game unless u have endgame perks or something to give u an extra last chance to secure at least a kill or 2. Because you have 3 other people as survivors, The survivor gameplay is not as stressful as killer because you can get carried by a good looper or gen rushers. Survivors can make 5 mistakes, get hooked and still escape simply because of the new pallet density updates, buff perks, INSANE gen speeds and simply getting their hand held in every way. I mean hens completed 5 gens and escaped in 2 mins, yet killer can make a mistake and win the game yeah right!
The same argument can be made that having 3 other survivors you don't know and have zero communication can also be stressful. You can say that because the killer only relies on themselves it is less stressful. Although, I'm not wrong. My point follows logic and a sound mind. Killer is by far less stressful when a Survivor is one of four that has zero communication with others and has to just hope they don't make a bunch of mistakes. You as the killer are in control of your ability to make mistakes. I as a survivor have zero control over how good my teammates are, which by definition shows why survivor roles is harder.
Prior to responding to this I just had a match. Where I did very well. I did gens and got hit only once during the handful of chases with dredge. He kept leaving to apply pressure and not waste time, smart. I was having a good game but two survivors had died by the time I got last gen done. One of which was straight up immediately tunneled off hook. I unhooked the last survivor knowing that the dredge would just teleport and initiate chase. What I didn't realize in being a good teammate cause I was so used to 2v8… Was I forgot about NOED among other perks and immediately was put in the downed position with no chance at a chase or anything.
Reflecting on that, it straight up goes to the idea that once one survivor is dead. The game spirals into a unhook, heal, rinse and repeat scenario. I do my best to balance this with gens otherwise it's game over but most survivors don't do this very well. It's hard to coordinate in a team when there is zero communication lol. Actually it proves my point how choosing to do gens with 3 survivors left actually led to the 3rd player dying and that resulted in one survivor on hook and the other to unhook. All the killer had to do was wait for an unhook and they secured a 4k because of it. I don't see how waiting for the third survivor to die on hook or secure a 4k via the unhook is stressful. Had I waited for them to die on hook. The killer by default wins with a 3k via the mmr system. So even if I found hatch that only secures me a tie, not a win. In fact I'd go as far to say it's more stressful for me because I have an opportunity to salvage the tie compared to the killer who already won via the 3k and is just looking to secure a meaningless mori. Which has no impact on the win condition.
Mind you, you'll find that when people who are wrong go so far down that rabbit-hole… it's practically impossible for them to see reason. So I don't expect you to see the writing on the wall but I am right.
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Mate that
@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027689#Comment_4027689
I read about halfway through this nonsense. On the contrary, playing as a survivor is a way to relax after a stressful match as a killer. LOL. To win as a survivor, your teammates need to at least try. As a killer, you rely only on yourself and hope that the survivors make more mistakes than you.
I hear this ridiculous illogical comparison every single time. The writing is on the wall and you'd think they would see it but nope. Narrow is the mind.
The fact survivors have to rely on 3 others to play well makes playing survivor harder. If you think survivor is more relaxing than you are rarely playing survivor and you are playing at the lower mmr where most killers are either goofing off or genuinely deranking… You can't tell me versing a sweaty kaneki is "relaxing" lmao.
To win as a survivor you need to play well, not just try. Majority of my games go from 1-2 gens left into a loss and sometimes I don't even see the match get past 4 gens. Why? All because one survivor died or made a mistake. The moment the game becomes a 3v1 the game often spirals into a unhook, heal, rinse and repeat gameplay loop. Sometimes you get some players who still do gens but again, usually in solo queue it's hard to find a teammates that rotate off hook effectively. Literally this happens even if the killer nearly throws the whole match.
Quite literally as a killer you can make several mistakes but if the survivor side makes one blunder… You can still win the game. I mean I don't know what you are calling "nonsense". You can't even point or reference a single thing I said. Your counter argument is not even a counter-argument it's literally the no you thing i predicted. You know why that is, it's cause I am right. lol
Think about it, logically, if you have a team… It appears easier but you gotta remember. There is no communication via comms for most (Majority is solo queue). So you literally are just blind, deaf and dumb to what the others are thinking and just praying they are half decent to last at minimum 30 seconds in a chase. Oh and you hope they wont throw every single pallet under the sun making the game virtually impossible to win in the later phase of the match.
Where as a killer not only has the power of BHVR pushing for a 60% win rate but also you have yourself to rely on. Meaning if you make a mistake, it's on you. You don't have to worry about the rng of another random teammate messing with your strategy… Don't try me lol, I M1 Skullmerchant for fun cause I like her cosmetics and mori. If you want you show me how relaxed you are in your matches. If you want, post it here a recording of your relaxed gameplay. I'd genuinely like to see how good of a looper you are and how competent the killers are in your matches. If I am wrong, I am wrong. Although something tells me you are fronting harder than a man who drives a truck. Brownie points if you actually drive a truck.
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My original post was too long and honestly a bit too much ( was a bit frustrated honeslty lol).
The game wont die, I played a little before Legion and new part was released. As a killer main at the time you can probably see why I quit DBD for many years. Legion was actually my first DLC purchase and is still my favourite killer in all of dbd hands down. Although I use the power more for hardcore parkour zoom-zoom over injuring. Cause after playing maining survivor side upon returning to the game. It's made me fully understand how annoying certain killer powers are. Thus I try to make my playing killer more enjoyable for survivors whilst having fun myself.The fact is, Survivor mains just want to play the game. Where as Killer mains want to secure a 4k + mori. It's why slugging is a thing. Slugging is doesn't happen because it's "fun". It exists out of desperation to deny hatch and secure that mori.
Tell me, if you were a survivor… Would you:
A) Crawl to a corner until you bleed out -or- are found by the killer.B) Pick yourself up and continue participating in the match (injured).
You tell me which one is more enjoyable as a gameplay loop. Assuming you put yourself in the shoes of a survivor main.
Mate, all survivors want, is to feel like they can still participate in the match. Seriously, I don't give two-hoots about anti-tunneling and honestly I don't believe you actually give a damn about that either cause you'll be off chasing another survivor and creating gen pressure. I also don't agree with the boosts to gen repair speed like before.
Straight up all I want is to just be able to pick myself up if I am slugged. It's not even that I want to be "able to pick myself up really". It's more so that I want the killer to put me on hook. Why? As I stated above the meta for killers is to slug the second last or more survivors in order to deny hatch and secure the 4k. This way, the killer is playing with fire, okay slug but if I get up… That gives me a fighting chance and if you come back to slug… then the other survivor has a fighting chance. It forces the killer to hook one or the other in some cases and gives the last survivor a fighting chance for hatch. If that isn't fair then I don't know what to tell ya because hatch literally equals a tie via mmr.
EDIT* I already saw the down votes coming, no response just downvotes for the original post. Usually see that cause I am right but again. Ego would have others go, no you and then down vote with no counter argument hehehe. Oh well…
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@Emeal said:
Just looking forward to the next PTB right now.
Me too, I hope they release something. Even if it's just the anti-slugging part. I'll be happy with just that.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
It absolutely should've. Those changes were not fair
You can read my response to the guy above if necessary.
What was not fair? I agree the gen boost stuff and the slight boosts were not fair and I even say that I believe they should be removed.
Although tell me that they couldn't be removed upon live release. Explain to me how Krasue can get tweaks that remove her one and only weakness essentially. Even going as far as to buff her, pushing her to top 3 killers in all of DBD now. Yet they couldn't just remove the 10% boost to gens etc… and keep the slugging mechanic and anti tunnelling stuff?
Even if you wanted to argue that well I don't agree with anti-tunnelling and believe that it doesn't ruin the new player experience…
You are telling me that they couldn't of removed the anti-tunnelling, those buffs to gens etc… and simply kept the anti-slugging mechanic? Oh they pick themselves up too quickly… So it would be hard for BHVR to simply change a few numbers is what you are saying?
OHHH but forgive me. It's totally fair to release Krasue right? I mean she essentially is impossible to counter, quite literally has no weakness. You have to go out of your way to lose a match with her pretty much. Although releasing her is fair right???
I don't understand this logic, If you think something should be cancelled because it's unfair okay than apply that same logic to killer side as well.
Just like the other guy, It's not fair essentially. So let's go through that logic, it's not fair so cancel it. It breaks the game for one side, it's not fair cancel it…
Using your perception and logic:
anti-slugging + anti-tunneling systems = unfair for killer sideWhy? It breaks or guts the gameplay loop for Killers. It prevents the Killer from… I would add something here but y'all give no evidence to support your claim so ya know.
—Thus we must cancel this update.
Krasue (A-tier) + buffs on release, now: S-tier + top 3 killer = Unfair for Survivor side
Why? It breaks or guts the gameplay loop for Survivors. Krasue has zero weaknesses resulting in unfair chases.
—Thus we must cancel this update.
If we took your logic at face value and unbiased. By your logic my guy. Cause it's evident enough that Krasue was and is an unfair release so. Again like I said to the other guy your argument is either:
I agree with this logic so that means Krasue should not of been released as well -OR- you disagree with krasue being cancelled which means you contradict your own logic. Either way your argument is a self defeating one. -
@Shinkiro said:
The concept of protecting a Survivor from being tunneled out was a great addition.
Keyword being concept. The PTB absolutely shouldnt have gone live. The PTB very much had game killing potential, anyone not biased knows that, it fundamentally broke, gutted and limited killer gameplay far beyond the scope of a QoL update. It was fundamentally flawed and filled with horribly thought out and implimented ideas.
It was just 'Gut every none S tier killer: The patch'. The compensation in no way made up for the lost strategy and agency of killers and survivors were in no way fairly counter balanced with any of this in mind. And of course in typical fashion killers were doubled punished with nerfs and survivors weaponising the mechanics against them. (To no ones surprised except BHVRs apparently).
It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction patch to stem all the survivor whining and not a patch made for the overall health of the game treating both sides equally.
By that logic, Krasue shouldn't of been released either.
"anyone not biased knows that"
-someone who clearly doesn't "know that"
Genuinely, saying the idea was "game-breaking" is ridiculous when I constantly watched killer-streamers slugging and tunnelling regardless of the system. Still able to secure a win at an average of ~3 gens left. I will agree there were unnecessary buffs and they could of and in my opinion should of been removed on live release.
I love how people like you will say, anyone with no bias, essentially common sense knows. They know it's unfair and they know that it "limited killer gameplay far beyond the scope of QoL…" Yet you provide zero evidence. Not even an example. Just well it is bad cause I said so. Pretty much nullifies anything you have to say.
Regardless, you want to talk about fair live releases? Hmmm, anti-loop killers being released, maps shrinking to encourage chases, aura so stealth is dead and many more changes all to encourage more chases, more hooks, faster matches. Killers even got some revamps (for better or worse) and buffs along the way making them faster. So many updates that nullified Survivor mechanics. It's been clear that BHVR has been going above and beyond to ruin looping. There was that point not that long ago where it became this push 'w' meta cause anti-looping was so strong at the time it essentially turned matches into this hold 'w' until downed boring gameplay loop.
The icing on the cake is how many Killers are released in a powerful state in recent years only to be later nerfed. Such as how the Krasue an already solid A tier for some reason got buffs!? For someone who is all "anyone not biased knows…" I would assume you "know that" Krasue being released like that is not balanced or fair and is "game-breaking"
Matter of fact to use your words in regards to Krasue, "it fundamentally broke, gutted and limited" Survivor-gameplay. Food for thought.
No offence, but as a person who very much enjoys philosophy and makes it a mission to approach scenarios with the "least" amount of bias. I am hard pressed to say you are extremely biased.
The update could of easily been nerfed a bit and removed gen boosts etc... The anti-tunnelling off hook was fine. Once in live servers it could of been nerfed further similar to how killers are. Picking yourself off the ground was good. It literally does not as you say break or gut the experience (paraphrasing). It just ensures killers hook a survivor instead of slugging. Although it has been proven time and time again throughout the PTB that slugging still can get you the win; it just takes a bit longer.
In fact for someone talking about Survivors whinning, Majority of posts on the forum is by killers. Do with that what you will. Although Survivors have had to deal with being rushed out of a match over and over again. It's not fun. So ya after years of putting up with that. I think it's healthier overall for the game to apply an anti-tunneling system.
I'll go a step further actually. Many new players leave due to how the mmr system works. It's clear that you'll on average of 1-2 newer players on your team. So when killers look for the "weak-link" they are essentially ruining the experience for newer players and turning away potential long term players. I don't blame them for being frustrated. It's a challenging to play Survivor let alone play it solo.
I know my reasoning is sound and founded in logic and anyone with a brain cell can see that this update getting cancelled was unfair. Especially given the release state of Krasue. Your literal argument is anyone who isn't bias knows… That the update would of essentially broken or gutted the killer experience. Which essentially means most killers abuse slugging/tunneling; Which is the very damn reason it was going to be implemented.
So either your logic is sound and that means you by extent agree that Krasue should not of been released -OR- you don't agree and believe Krasue being released was sound in logic and completely fine which contradicts your logic on the slugging/tunneling update. Meaning you are being biased. Meaning "anyone not biased —" does not extent to even you.What this means is either your logic is sound and you agree that you are wrong or you disagree with your logic and basically created a self defeating argument…
Also, I don't think Killers should be punished but I've played both sides and I was around when gen rushing was a thing(new part era). I remember buying Legion when it first came out and loving the killer. Only for me to hear POP-POP-POP… I quit the game shortly after that but upon returning I tried to get back into killer but the roles have started to reverse. Now Killer is becoming too easy. I switched to survivor because I enjoy a challenge in my games but Killer is being pampered so hard these days and I hate it. I don't feel like the win is earned. It just feels cheap. Most times I play Killer it's to have fun and take a break. I used to M1 only skull merchant cause I enjoy her mori and I still won most of my matches.
So I want balance. Believe me the only reason I don't main killer is because it's not satisfying, it's too easy. I relish the SWF and skilled Survivors in my matches. Unlike many who complain I love it when a Survivor gets the blind and I compliment it. Cause I know from playing Survivor side that it takes more skill to play Survivor than killer. So when I get a Survivor that is good at looping. I will take chase for the whole game if that's what it takes to get them. Cause that chase is 1000% more fun than getting an easy down on a less experienced survivor.
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I fully agree but let's be honest here. BHVR will not and have not shown that a balanced game is what they desire.
Honestly went on a rant but cutting it short cause ranting wont do anything lol.
Genuinely no matter how much logic should prevail. It's clear that a balanced or even attempting to make a fair game is not something BHVR cares to do. Their actions are clear. I don't know if it's just money. It probably has to do with pumping out as many DLCs as possible to sell the hype train. It's clearly a very lucrative method and if it didn't work then BHVR wouldn't be doing it.
It could also be some people(s) at BHVR have PTSD from the new part meta years ago and now have this vendetta against survivors and are pushing the company to fulfill their own sick twisted sadistic fantasy. Although I am confident it's probably just money lol.
It's funny seeing the vote down but no explanation as to why you disagree. Maybe I hurt your feelings with the truth in my rant but honestly I don't care :P
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I would like to add since testing, i removed all addons, no perks. Just straight vanilla killer. I did only head and only body form. Both were powerful on their own.
People just straight up DC or give up near the end of the match. I had Survivors who didn't even care to chase anymore they simply accepted their fate. That was only in body form or only head form as well. Not just when I used both forms.
I will say the body form felt more rewarding over the head form. Head form felt unfun and like that feeling you get from trickster. Hitting multiple times consistently in a row just to get the injured state before downing. Except trickster is more fun than this. I think it's around 4 hits to essentially down a Survivor but flying closes the gap so much that I had no issue winning every match.
Where as in body form I felt more satisfaction from the projectiles. Hitting gens basically infects all Survivors on the gen. It felt like I was playing Plague a bit but minus the vomit. Honestly if this killer was released as if it wasn't a krasue. I think it would of been far better received even if it had similarities to plague-and-unknown.
In my opinion, I think the head form should be reworked completely. The body form is fun but the head is just a nightmare.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I think these are pretty bad ideas.
I think much like Nurse an addon can be added to allow players to see where they are going to hit
This already is an addon, and not a base feature.
I think all she needs is a slightly increased cooldown on the projectile, and infection to be cleansed when hooked.
@Rigbeta said:
She needs increased animation times, cooldowns, and her m1 should not be instant after using her power. A lot of her issues are simply that she has too much speed. It's also a problem that her abilities are both AntinTransition and AntiLoop. That combo basically spells hard-core sweat games with no wiggle room for Survivors.
Ya I saw the addon, my mistake on that.
Although I do agree that cooldowns or animation times will help but only slightly. Even if she gets a slight boost we might either end back up at PTB numbers or around it. Not to mention Krasue was tested in an environment that had the slugging/tunnelling mechanics implemented. That was cancelled and in my opinion it messed with the release of this killer. All their data is practically biased and poorly reflects how non-PTB players were going to experience this killer now that the slugging update was cancelled.
Thing is, she is like if plague, vecna, unknown, legion and nemi had a child. Nemi being for the head form ya know more an aesthetic comparison with the tentacle-intestinal whips lol. She shoots projectiles like unknown but the affects are basically plagues vomit and she can fly closing gaps similar to vecna. Oh and she can vault pallets like legion in head form.
It's quite literally like someone went shopping at a superhero convention with near unlimited wealth and said oh I like that one and that one oooh and this one oohhh what if we just combined all these things!!! With little to no concern for the consequences of combining all these powers. Resulting in this Frankenstein of a deadly but fun killer to play but not verse.
Krasue is a lot of fun I love her concept but there is no universe nor animation tweaking that will "fix" her so that Survivors have fun versing her as well. She needed a rework yesterday.
Heck I honestly thought like others that her head was originally going to act like the twins. Even if her head was going to act like a camera allowing her to remain insidious with no terror radius but able to gather intel on Survivors. I just figured something cause Krasue shouldnt have all those organs etc.. from my understanding but i get the creative liberty to make her more scary.
Honestly looking back at my ideas I think you are right they aren't the best and they won't actually fix the underlying issue. The more I play her the more I just think she is Superman. I mean Superman with no kryptonite yet. She is this awesome silly fun overpowered killer but versing her is like saying ya versing superman is fun. Nobody wants a dude who can lift a city up with one hand and shoot laser beams out his eyes, is bullet proof… to punch you in da face lol. That's what versing the Krasue is like for Survivors right now. It's like a Nemi spawn of an abomination given crack cocaine and told be free my child in every match it goes to!
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@Marc_123 said:
Yes, too much aura reading in 1v4 and 2v8.
But they don´t care sadly :-(
I hate the unfair situations this creates in 2v8.
Can only imagine the two down votes were from reddit posters. Beware the neck-beards ;) lol
I do feel that is the case though. Sadly if it doesn't impact revenue negatively they won't care to do anything about it.
Aura reading isn't even that big of a thing is most Survival Horror games. BHVR quite literally has shown their ability to toggle off certain perks. They did that with the flashbang perk from Leon not that long ago if I remember correctly. It's not like they don't easily have the ability to toggle aura perks off temporarily just to see how people feel.
Heck, if the majority of players like these two down voters are the winners. Then fair game ya know. Although these people are so insecure they would rather throw a temper tantrum then even give it a shot. Cause god forbid the majority of players actually enjoy a non-aura based dbd.
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@Deadman7600 said:
I love the 2v8 classes for both sides, and in a mode like that it works better than perks since killers and survivors don't need to figure out double the perks, just memorise classes. However, because of how entrenched the perks are in 1v4 I imagine it'd be like separating a dog from its ball and would turn a ton of players away. That said, I really think the devs were onto something with the 2v8 classes, it kinda needs more depth tho and some classes with more interesting mechanics than gen-rusher, looper and healer.
However, because of how entrenched the perks are in 1v4 I imagine it'd be like separating a dog from its ball and would turn a ton of players away.
lmao! I reckon this would be the main concern. It'd be the growing pains but as more players give it a shot and content creators hopefully shed a positively light on the gamemode… Over time players may seek refuge in such a mode after certain matches.
Wild idea but what if Killers actually come to love the mode more than Survivors. Imagine those Killers that deal with SWF who dominate the high mmr ladder. Those Killers along with others near high mmr may feel they can find a sanctuary in a class based system. Where there are no gen rushing builds! Hell I'd be 100% okay with not allowing items to be equipped but Survivors had to find items in the match. BHVR would just add more chests to the matches…
I think maybe just maybe those higher mmr killers would seek refuge in a class based system. As the high mmr would be more balanced and genuinely skill based. Killers would perhaps finally have the proper "advantage" they are supposed to have in high mmr as well.
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@Lexilogo said:
I've always thought it's a shame that Killers have preferences for Perks thanks to their powers, but Survivors really don't. Lots of Survivors and their perks have tried to inspire build archetypes, but at the end of the day even a perk that's reasonably strong and has a clear thematic archetype like Background Player can just slot into a "Seal Team 6" build, vanishing into the other well-rounded multipurpose Perks those builds run.
So yes, I see the appeal of wanting Survivors to have more clear roles. With that said, I think what I just said would also stop Classes from becoming a permanent alternate gamemode, because the idea doesn't really work for Killers. Killer Classes in 2v8 mostly revolve around your role in the team, because Killer Powers already provide you a playstyle. You couldn't really apply Killer Classes to 1v4 in the same way, so you're either making a gamemode where Killers get nothing special, or trying to make Classes work for Killers which is probably going to turn out feeling much worse than Perks do.
I personally think the better approach is to try and do things like Perk rebalancing, new Perks that incentivise synergies, Item changes, base mechanic overhauls (eg. making Chests worthwhile!) or etc to try and convince Survivors to specialise. I do think unique Survivor archetypes are possible within the Perks system, they just need to be good enough to tempt Survivors away from jack of all trades builds. Going with Classes feels like giving up on that.
Thanks for your input and it's much appreciated, 😎
Killer Classes in 2v8 mostly revolve around your role in the team, because Killer Powers already provide you a playstyle. You couldn't really apply Killer Classes to 1v4 in the same way, so you're either making a gamemode where Killers get nothing special, or trying to make Classes work for Killers which is probably going to turn out feeling much worse than Perks do.
I agree you couldn't use the traditional 2v8 class system. Although, that's where BHVR would need to overhaul the classes for a 1v4 scenario. Personally I can see some killers not liking the idea of being able to play meta perks. Where they can't hybridize their builds and use the "meta" for instance. Although I believe you don't need that many archetypes to satisfy a proper class system. The idea that Killers wouldn't want to play classes because of a lack of choice I believe is ridiculous. When the vast majority of players are using the same build concepts. Gen regression + Aura reading OR Aura + Anti-loop is seen in nearly every single one of my matches. To the point I get consistent use out of Distortion right from the start of the match. People play Distortion as an anti-aura perk but I use it more as an intel gathering perk. If a token is used on hook… A token is used on gen kick etc… Giving me a heads up on future interactions in that match.
Got a bit side tracked but my belief stems from the notion that it's been proven time and time again that we flock to the simpler choices. You can have a burger joint with 50 different kinds of burgers and next to you is a burger joint that sells the most basic burgers: Beef cheese burger and a Chicken burger. Despite the amazing options. It's been proven through marketing and psychology that people will show preference for the other burger joint with only two simple burger choices. We see this in DBD. I saw this in PoE 1 and 2. Hundreds of perks thousands of combinations. Yet only one or two "viable" builds at the end of the day.
My opinion on this, is that we can just create a more unified path for both sides. Less choices and worrying about meta or imbalances. If I don't run DS I'm not being smart and if I don't run gen regression on Killer than I am asking for pain. Why not eliminate the exploitative nature of builds and create a more balanced and stable environment that is easier to balance.
At least that's my counter argument. Feel free to nit pick and point out some flaws in my opinion as well, it's very much welcomed.
I personally think the better approach is to try and do things like Perk rebalancing, new Perks that incentivise synergies, Item changes, base mechanic overhauls (eg. making Chests worthwhile!) or etc to try and convince Survivors to specialise.
I agree with this as well! My issue with this revolves around the fact BHVR already does perk rebalancing. Perhaps not to "our" liking or as quickly as we'd hope for… Personally I feel we already see the failure that comes with attempting to balance nearly 300 perks. I would love chests to be overhauled. I actively enjoy builds that use chests. I'm avid fan of increasing the intractability with the world in a match. I would love to see more gen archetypes that have you finding parts to install over sitting there and hitting skill checks. The blood gens with the blood "gas" pumps were refreshing! Candles way back during the Halloween event were so much fun!
I personally just feel like the balancing of perks has failed. Why I feel it'd be better for BHVR to seek alternative methods to balance the game. Even if that meant keeping perks but reducing the number of perks for instance. Although, currently I personally feel the meta has become exploitative. I actively don't use DS or OTR because I have main'd Killer and I know how frustrating certain perks are to deal with. I main Survivor now but I truly believe the game would be better if some of these perks on both sides were simply removed from the game (unpopular opinion perhaps haha). I get why people use meta perks. It's in the name "meta" lol.
I do think unique Survivor archetypes are possible within the Perks system, they just need to be good enough to tempt Survivors away from jack of all trades builds. Going with Classes feels like giving up on that.
You could be right in this regard. Which is why maybe removing perks all together isn't the "right" solution. Although I think having an alternative option would be refreshing. I love the idea of Survivor archetypes and I get why they aren't baked into a Survivor but even if it was a sub personality trait that could be equipped would be cool.
I'm an avid fan of customisation in games right. I want to make it clear that I love perk diversity. I actively make custom builds for myself and I do my best not to use meta perks like DS or OTR. I create my own little tailored experience that suites my playstyle. Hence I love perks.
I also really love the 2v8 class system because during chases I feel like it's a perk-less chase if you get what I mean. Often the classes are a more subtle/specialised combination of perks. There is no lithe or DS. No Bamboozle etc… It's just raw Killer versus Survivor. No perks and pure chase and I love that so much! I love chases and I never enjoyed chases more than in 2v8. Overall it feels more like skill matters in a class based system where as in a perk based system. Instead of being punished for my mistakes I can just use OTR, DS or DH to gain more time. Poor positioning no longer is punished basically and that goes for Killers as well. Killers don't need to rely on skill very much anymore. When you can straight up block loops. If you are bad at looping… Just make loops obsolete! Hold 'w' strategy will eventually secure the victory.
For me I think if we took attention off of perks and focused that energy on interacting in the game via chases and interacting with gens or new gen archetypes it would make up for the loss of "perk diversity". Maybe I'm wrong on that matter. Although this is my further reasoning and again feel free to nit pick.
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@Goldencrowner123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906619#Comment_3906619
They have to tailor to killer mains because they are what's keeping the game in balance. Think about it. Even if survivors were nerfed to the absolute ground, there will still be people who want to play with their friends, try cool challenges with each other, or try fun altruistic builds. If god forbid they nerfed killers though then the lonely killer mains would just retire because they don't get their 4k and mori every game. Just take a look at the ridiculous win streaks people can do on killer, even a professional tournament team could not go on a successful 4 man out win streak for 50 games I guarantee meanwhile there's a blight out there with a 1.9k winstreak if I'm not mistaken.
It's almost like BHVR's mentality is "Oh well you guys get to socialise and play with your friends in survivor. That should be enough for you" and just go and buff the absolute hell out of killers because being able to socialise as survivors is enough compensation for the bs you have to go through against killers.
The 2v8 gamemode perfectly proves my point as killer queue times were ridiculous since it gave the benefit of being able to socialise and be altruistic with a friend which is what survivors have 24/7, but then you also get the benefits of just being broken and overpowered as a killer in this current day dbd.I agree, hence I find that Killers have been "pampered". It's not even a matter of favouritism or being like okay it's a bit unfair. It's like BHVR genuinely pampers killer mains.
As for the Survivors and SWF being used for socialising. Unfortunately because the high rated mmr players do it… It must be bad. The high mmr players can finish gens in minutes… Let's assume 90% of the rest of the community can do that when even in the top 10% of players/SWF I highly doubt more than 2% roughly have ever actually done this. Although you see a youtube video and "omg see what I have to deal with as a killer!"
Do I agree with how fast gens can be done, no.
Although I find this whole thing ironic. Killers are pushed to strive for a 4k when the mmr win condition is a 3k. Survivors are pushed towards escapes only because hatch is considered a tie. Killers will deny a hatch cause hatch is seen as a 'w' and it'd deny their 4k mori.
This is why I firmly stand by a class system. Get rid of perks. I love the diversity and switch things up to have fun of course. Yet, if BHVR truly was serious about eliminating that high mmr gameplay they'd eliminate the source of the issue. Let's be painfully honest here for a second. SWF is not the issue. Getting callouts or some information does help but it's not game breaking. What ruins matches are perks/builds. When Survivors bring builds in a SWF that can finish all gens in roughly a couple minutes(average match being 5-10 minutes long). I can agree that is bad.
Same goes for Killers that bring the most meta builds that making matches borderline unplayable or down right tediously annoying. We play these games because it's for entertainment. A hint of competitiveness but these are games after all designed for entertainment. I'm not getting paid for escaping and Killers don't either for the mori(4k). It's not like there is a golden trophy Killers are striving for. There is genuinely zero end goal for sweating or making matches unbearably miserable for the other side and yet ego prevails…
The source of all these issues are quite literally "perks". People complain about a new killers powers at first and then things get tweaked… then most move on and that's that. On the other hand you constantly hear complaints about DS, NOED, other meta perks/builds. The true culprit is unfortunately perks. Tell me how SWF top 5% is going to gen rush under two minutes when quite literally those "bulids" are gone, replaced with a class system similar to 2v8 for instance.
With a class system in place. That high mmr being survivor sided will shrink to virtually nothing. This goes for Killers as well and say goodbye to NOED or the need for "gen regression" for instance. The game would be easier to manage/balance on both sides. Having pre-made classes will also enable a few custom classes during special events, Christmas, Halloween, etc…
I think BHVR is just worried that if DBD doesn't have that advertised "diversity" in perks. If the game just had a class system… I can see the concern that the game would just become boring. Although, majority of players play the same perks or perk combos. I don't see the issue at that point.
If people are worried that the game would be boring without perk diversity. That says more about the gameplay loop. Maybe if we just had classes and the game was more balanced… We'd see BHVR have more time to focus on better gameplay loops. Like different types of gens or interactables in normal mode to add more flavour to matches.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907129#Comment_3907129
"I agree, skill is a factor but if you win most of your solo queue matches you are playing at higher mmr. This means you have more competent teammates on average and we all know high mmr is Survivor sided."
Right but the thing is I didn't magically get there. I played through that low mmr to get there. Meaning if you are actually playing well yourself then you will end up with better teammates as well eventually. IE good players are not getting held back by bad teammates. If they are constantly losing from bad teammates at lower mmr then they are probably bad themselves and don't want to take ownership of that. Being a good player at lower mmr will eventually get people out of low mmr. If they aren't then they themselves aren't as good as they think they are.
"Your experience does not appropriately reflect the majority of players. That said, mmr also isn't always black and white. Meaning you can be low mmr and end up in a mid mmr match. This can happen in higher mid-mmr areas where you unintendedly end up in higher mmr games. Those skill issue players, often might of just been pulled higher up the ladder then they are ready for. It's not their fault it's just mmr compensating for a lack of players and faster queue times."
This is true, mmr does throw you into less accurate matches occasionally however in general in does keep accuracy. Also, this mismatching you're talking about happens even now, so what you're describing wouldn't be an affect from what I'm referencing, it happens no matter what already, meaning I don't think it's necessarily a counter argument.
"When you punish the top percentile of any game it has more than a "little" impact on the majority usually. I've seen this first hand in other games, such as PoE. In Path of Exile they nerfed loot and attempted to make the game slower to combat the top players/groups. It made the game masochistically borderline unbearable. The main excuse to defend this was, "oh you aren't masochistic enough for PoE…" As if it was a prideful thing to play an unrewarding gameplay loop. It's toxic."
I agree this is a fair point, however I think there's some nuance. I think you can balance to not have a completely busted top 20% clown fiesta without hurting the lower people. I don't think it's just one or the other. Also, as mentioned before, per mmr I don't think it would affect lower mmr people as much as you think. This is where I think PoE isn't a good example because that's against bot mobs, not other players, not really comparable. No MMR basically. MMR existing is what makes my point more valid essentially.
"DBD is getting smaller maps, faster killers, anti-looping and stealth is practically eradicated. I personally would not have an issue with all these changes, if meta perks were not a thing on both sides. It's one thing to quote "skill" and another thing to have a ghoul or blight… zoom across the map because of a brain-dead aura build. I think people would have far less issues with killers and even anti-loop killers if perks like NOED or aura reading perks in general were not a thing. That goes for Survivors not having DS or OTR and aura reading as well. At some point when you say oh it's a skill issue you completely gaslight and ignore the core issue."
Anti-looping and stealth eradicated? I 100% disagree, people do them fine. Most maps have been way too large for a very long time. Large maps encourage hold w game play which is unhealthy and boring. We want to force interaction. Most aura perks have clear base kit counters without even running perks, just simply game knowledge. I would always rather a killer run aura than more gen regression. I agree with NOED, it's a very unhealthy, no skill perk. Are we going to balance the entire game around ghoul and blight? That seems silly. The vast majority of the killer roster does not fit the criteria you're talking about. I don't think this is gaslighting or ignoring core issues at all, it's generally lack of accountability of people playing bad and making excuses instead. What you think are core issues I do not think are core issues. The only people generally complaining about aura perks are newer players that don't understand the game well, not the majority of the player base. I'd rather nerf some of the outlier killers than punish the entire killer roster.
"The fact of the matter is, I've talked with others and the 2v8 class system was genuinely loved by many and it's not to say we all don't love perks and the ability to have that diversity. Although, when you look at the majority of complaints… they all revolve around "perks". Hence, I genuinely believe "The Ghoul" would not be as negatively looked at if we had a more balanced perks system. It'd be easier to balance and the devs would have an easier time focusing on a proper killer mechanic over worrying about how is this killer + these perks going to hopefully not break the game. Cause dash distance etc… can easily be tweaked. Balancing hundreds of perk combinations is practically impossible. "
I mean I do agree the game has a perk issue. The vast majority of perks are terrible and many of the ones that are good are plaster fixes for core game issues that should be resolved at base than relying on us to do it with the perks.
Btw thank you for the cordial responses. Many people on the forums cannot disagree without becoming condescending or emotional.
No worries man, we may disagree on stuff but at the end of the day it's a difference of opinion and not the end of the world.
You make fair points that PoE is not the best comparison to DBD. I do agree it's possible to balance the top percentile without hurting lower mmr players. Unfortunately I think that is tougher for Devs to do than we realise. Top end players will always find a new meta no matter what. I've seen those videos of SWF burning through a match in less than a couple minutes. So I get it.
As for the bad survivors not taking accountability… I fully agree that this has a part to play but the mmr shifting stuff varies. I mean we can't be certain how often it occurs and it varies depending on time of day and how populated your region is. It's speculative really from both our ends but I'm aware it does happen I wont say how often it does though because I have zero clue. Although it just feels like I'll often see at least one baby survivor every odd match.
I don't play competitively anymore. I'm also a returning player. I first played DBD a little before Legion released I believe he was my first purchase. I left shortly after that though(killer main mostly). When I returned recently mid 2024 maybe, I tried survivor side and had fun with it, so I stuck with it. I'm by far not top tier skill lol but I've played in high mmr which is why I felt comfortable saying that there is a clear difference in higher mmr. You genuinely feel the consistency of having competent players in your team.
These days I play casually. I can still generally hold 30-60 second chases; sometimes more depending on the killer really. I'm by far not the most skilled but I've noticed wherever I am on the proverbial mmr latter. I notice a wide mix of players match to match. One moment everyone is doing gens and we escape do well. The next match, nobody wants to do gens and a teammate is going down in sub 20 seconds. I do my gens and do my best to take chase when I can but sometimes the Killer will ignore me after my first chase. I've had killers tell me I was good at looping but I mean maybe it's a skill issue on their end for not seeing I was only average at best lmao it's hard to gauge that stuff lmao.
As for individual skill, I agree eventually you should get to higher mmr if you have the skill for it. Although that's not always the case. It's not so black and white really. When you have players that sometimes don't do gens at all or they kill themselves on hook. Survivors abandoning the game or straight up dying early in chase. Solo queue is the reason I play casually.
For aura builds, I will admit that if the killer is not running aura then stealth is still a viable thing and I was being overdramatic with the word "eradicated" lol. I'm not the biggest fan of regression builds not cause I think they are overpowered but they just remind me of legion matches. It's sluggish and boring. For me, the aura stuff is become more of a crutch these days rather than a genuine little information perk. I'd probably be more accepting of aura perks if it was a one aura perk per build kind of limit situation. Just currently even distortion is pointless most of the time. Especially when we all spawn together now and that basically defeats the point of distortion hiding you when the killer knows you spawn together and he sees three auras instead of four… it's not hard to deduce the fourth has distortion lol. Although that basically just eliminates 1 token and the other usually gets used up shortly after.
I'm not a fan the idea of running a perk because it counters said build. I've heard this from killers… oh just run distortion. So I do and the next match I get is a non-aura build and now I got a pointless perk that does nothing the whole match but that can happen with other perks. I also don't like the concept of being force to play a perk because it's "mandatory" to counter said build. I was told to run DS or OTR (no joke) if I don't like their build. So I did and then I got called out for using meta perks lol. I see time and time again killers use meta perks or specific perks that counter a certain build… as an excuse for justifying the build but then when you run those perks the hypocrisy that occurs is ridiculous. So much so that I've genuinely grown tired of the blatant abuse of aura reading and the lack of countereability on both sides. I genuinely believe that the game would be better off and more enjoyable if we removed aura. Not built in aura like scratch mirror Myers... I just mean the perks. Scratch mirror can be nerfed or buffed in accordance with how things are going.
Don't get me wrong I love the perk diversity but it's getting out of hand. I truly believe (my opinion) that Killers such as the Ghoul would not have such negative backlash if it wasn't for the accompanying perks/builds. Having a kaneki dash across the map to your location but doesn't know where you are exactly is terrifying but in a fun way. Having the same killer dash across the map knowing your exact location is frustrating because it eliminates that thrill. The killer taking those few extra seconds to find you is that added tension that just makes chases so much more thrilling. Instead of just having the killer zoom to your location and preemptively attack you around a wall because they know your "exact" location when you were trying to be stealthy.
I simply(my opinion) find aura perks to generally be unhealthy for the game on both sides. I've played plenty of them. Made my own builds and I know how powerful aura reading can be on Survivor side even. It's why I take such a firm stance on the idea that aura perks have gotten out of hand. They should either be limited to one per build or just remove them from the game entirely. Most will probably end up using regression builds but that just furthers my point on a class based system like 2v8. Easier to maintain/balance. Also the class system resulted in more teamwork in my opinion. From rebuilding pallets to engineers giving gen locations and healers… Scouts could be altered to not have aura but all in all like I said it's a subtle aura reading thing like the gen kicking in 2v8 I'm chill with that pretty much. I didn't hear a single complaint about 2v8 class system sucks. Heard how 2 killers can be overpowered or too many survivors or too little survivors but no complaints on the class system. I think BHVR should give it a go and create two modes… see how popular it would be and if the demand is there for it. They already have it set up basically. They just need to tweak a few numbers from 2 to 1 and 8 to 4 and vuala!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905725#Comment_3905725
To me that more illustrates how much of a buff those other killers need.
As of right now, The majority of Survivor games result in losses. BHVR said you'll win 4/10 matches on average but it's as if someone in BHVR hates looping. You'll see it's more like 2-3/10 games won nowadays and that 1-2 extra losses does make a massive difference long term. Nearly all the recent Killers that have been released are all anti-looping killers. Maps are being made to be smaller and some killers have even gotten their speed buffed. I've noticed over the years and realised as the maps get smaller and the killers made to be faster… I'm sitting there mid chase shaking my head in disbelief like how are you so fast! Although it's just reworks that happened and if you don't verse those killers often… When you eventually do it throws you off.
Not to mention both killer and I having sub 40 ping in a match but the Killer can hit me through pallets when the pallet is already half way down. Being hit at the end of a vault. BHVR has done everything possible to make it easier for Killers. Killers in this era of DBD have been pampered. I use that word very deliberately. Killer mains have been pampered.
Crying about DS, OTR etc… and SWF when the majority of these complaints are aimed at high mmr at the minority Survivor player count. Then 90% of the rest of Survivors suffer for it; especially in mid to lower mmr. Cause it's very much a fact that low to mid mmr is Killer sided but high mmr is Survivor sided. Every time BHVR punishes that top 10% the rest of us solo or not players get it 10x worse. Then yall go we need a buff AGAIN!
I will agree that top ranking MMR is survivor sided and it's crazy how bad it can get in a SWF but that makes up a minority of the playerbase and balancing the game around that is not healthy for the majority of the player base. Tell me you need a buff when 80% of my games have surivvors being slugged before 4th gen is done. I consider losing a game with 2 gens left is a good game now because god forbid you even finish one gen. Killer's these days are the most delusional I've ever seen it. I understood when infinite loops were a thing but now the script is flipped.
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Personally, I find people have not adapted to The Ghoul(Kaneki). I can prolong chases usually. Depending on how much objects(clutter) is in a map. When he dashes, I find anything to put in-between him and I. If I noticed he overshot a bit I'll even change directions, running the opposite way. All this does help to gain those extra seconds. Which can make the difference assuming your team is doing gens.
I do agree and dislike how the attacks are unavoidable. Even with other Killers, you are usually able to counter via crouching or simply putting something between you and the Killer(i.e. Gunslinger). I would like to see a feature that enables you to either crouch to avoid the grappling-dash attack. This would lead to mind games for both sides. If a Survivor crouched the whole time they give up distance and if the killer just spams his abilities then you'll be countered. It should be viable to crouch in order to avoid being hit at any distance. Making the use of the Ghouls powers more skill and timing based.
The fact that he can also dash half way across most maps with ease. Makes healing and safe unhooks near impossible. This killer genuinely punishes unhooking. You have to wait for him to be in chase cause if he's just roaming most players will immediately dash back to hook.
Personally the dashing across maps is bearable, it simply forces survivors to be smart with unhook timing. Although pair dashing across the map with aura builds. It's GG 99% of the time.
My biggest pet peeve in this era of DBD is how bad aura builds have gotten. Killers no longer want to use their braincells. God forbid you actually have to play a bit of a detective game or chess to find the Survivors. Why actually try when you can just have some Meta-Aura build basically show you the Survivors every time you hook or kick a gen or down a survivor… It's the single worst crutch Killers have and it is also ruining the game.
Say what you want about DS or OTR… I'll probably agree and if you want to bash on Survivor aura reading. I'll fully agree. It's why the only aura reading perk I use on occasion is Bond. Since I'm a solo player but if removing all aura perks meant bye bye bond. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
The issue with these killers half the time is not that they are "unbalanced" usually but it's the fact that the perks/builds that complement these Killers can result in deadly combinations. The Ghoul is possible to loop but it's actually a refreshing experience because you can't loop Kaneki the normal way. You actually have to mind game and play some chess. Which is refreshing compared to Knight puts down pawn, run away from loop. Artist puts crow in front of pallet run away from loop. Kaneki actually is the first killer in a long time that has given me that adrenaline rush I first felt playing dbd for the first time. He's by far not perfect but honestly I think it has more to do with the over abundance of perks.
My two cents, BHVR needs to scrap perks entirely. Go with the class system we had in 2v8. It puts everything on the same playing field. Get rid of aura reading; get back to the roots of DBD being a horror hide' n seek game(anyone you says it never was is lying). DBD used to be a genuine terror to play that enabled stealth or aggressive playstyles. This obliteration of stealth has led to players forced to be aggressive which means more chases… Becoming desensitised to killers and that horror vibe much sooner.
I love perks but this is just getting out of hand. Having a class system is easier to manage/balance. It also enables BHVR to focus more on making a balanced killer over worrying about how they'll interact with the ridiculous amounts of perks they got.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Yeah on the smaller maps especially its really annoying on the gen kicks, thats where I'm at with it rn
…on the smaller maps — gen kicks…
I feel you on that, I get it's also frustrating for Killers when there are a few competent Scouts who give away their location for nearly the whole match.
This is why I believe aura reading should be removed or reduced to a perk or two on both sides. If anything it should be subtle and not as commonly activated. Many on both sides have become to reliant on aura reading to the point it's become a crutch. It robs players of skill, in my opinion. Why learn and adapt to where players hide when you can kick a gen. Why have map awareness when you know for instance in 2v8 that those who haven't been hooked will be revealed to you; potentially giving away other survivors positions to.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884407#Comment_3884407
I don't know how to do all the forum quote stuff lol.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L7D41UT4OQEP/bez-n-c3-a1zvu.png
Here you go
I'm speaking to the 2v8 here though
I would say 2v8 is even less designed for hiding. It's supposed to be fast paced gameplay, which kinda makes it more fun for majority of people imo.
I would say 2v8 is even less designed for hiding.
Just wanted to test this out thanks!
Ya you have a good point… I've since started opting out of gens and actively trying to get the Killers attention pulling them away from gens when I have no hook states. Doesn't always work but when it does…
Just needed a mental shift in how to approach 2v8 I guess. Chases are fun but it's just unfortunate that sometimes you give your teammates away while trying to help. I used to be a Killer main (before the game engine change)and I still pop in every so often for some fun. Killer side just feels less rewarding these days. I remember when map awareness and actually thinking about where Survivors could be hiding was a fun challenge. Mind you I love versing SWF and maybe it's cause I have main'd both sides but when I see a team pull off those plays I laugh and applaud it. It genuinely makes me smile and I find it fun when I verse a good Survivor that can loop me. It's a challenge and I love that. I don't care about the wins anymore so maybe that's why other Killer mains have issues because they desire the 4k etc… Depends on what you deem as fun right.
For me it feels like the aura reading is slowly robbing both sides of that engagement that has you actually using your brain. It's like MMORPGs these days that hold your hand with lines and arrows guiding you to the exact place/npc you need to talk to. After awhile your like ya ya okay let me figure it out for myself thank you the hand holding was nice at first but now I think I can do it on my own and if I need help I'll look up a guide. You can tell I love turning off quest help indicators in rpgs lol. I get it's not for everyone though.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884402#Comment_3884402
You took my words out of context. Don't worry, I'll catch you up…
You are no fun. I like out of context quotes.
You should be a news reporter mate haha you seem to enjoy trying to use misinformation to drive your narrative.
Yeah, it's fun. Not like you made it hard with your first sentence…
DBD is a game I enjoy and the theme has shifted to be aura heavy.
Well, it used to be stacked heavily on slowdown, so only alternative for most killers are information perks…
I don't really mind hide and seek got worse, I think it's a good thing for both sides. Most players hate playing against and with those players. It's selfish playstyle, which makes game worse for everyone else imo.
Also Devs did say this game is a Hide 'n seek game.
Not like devs are always correct… I would say community has more say in about how game is played.
I don't know how to do all the forum quote stuff lol.
Definitely the community does play a part in how the game goes. Although it's BHVRs game and they have the ability to literally do whatever they want with the game for better or worse. I think if the community had more say this game would be much different. Legion might actually get a rework XD.
I personally love chases and from time to time taunt the Killer if I have no hook states but that's in a normal match. I think I get where you are coming from those people that just hide in a corner and never take a hook state for the team… If so I fully agree with you 100%. :)
I'm speaking to the 2v8 here though. Like I feel so guilty seeing most of my team has hook states right but so many people just don't do gens, ya know what I mean. So I'm like I need to do gens! Then others find their way to me and we work on the gen together but sometimes another gen pops and umm well the Killer sees my aura and I got like 1-2 teammates on the gen and they make there way over to us. The Killer like another mentions doesn't always go for me but they go for that weak link right.
I just feel so guilty cause I feel like I'm being a double agent working for the Killers but if I go out of my way to get hooked than I'm not doing gens and then I look at who is doing gens and NOBODY IS DOING GENS :'') pain hahaha
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438614/2v8-auras-are-getting-tiresome
You're on luck then, you don't have to feel like that because it's not a hide'n seek game xD
Again it is technically a hide 'n seek game with chasing elements. The Devs also referred to DBD as a hide 'n seek game so technically this is your opinion.
When you have a match where the Killer is using an aura build. Yes, it becomes this bland game of tag as the guy before you said. Although most matches are a fun exchange between hide 'n seek and being chased when aura builds are not involved.
Another person I think failed to read my post. Let me just clarify for you… this is about 2v8 and how the attempt to balance out hook states by revealing the Survivors with no hook states… Is in actually counter productive. As someone like myself who participates and actively does gens and goes out of my way as the healer class to unhook and heal other Survivors… You get where I'm going with this… Assuming I haven't been caged yet in the 2v8. I am essentially putting a red mark on my allies back every time I am revealed. This applies not just to me but to other Survivors… Maybe another unhooks me but is revealed and seeing as how I am on the death hook I am prioritised for instance. All I'm saying is it does more harm than good in my "opinion"
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@PetTheDoggo said:
I feel like I'm playing a hide 'n seek game
You are playing wrong game then. Simple as that. Prop Hunt might be better pick.
DBD is not horror game (most of the times), it's not hiding game. It's more like game of tag.
You took my words out of context. Don't worry, I'll catch you up…
I said, "I feel like I'm playing a hide 'n seek game where you don't hide and the Killer knows your location 3/4 of the match."
You should be a news reporter mate haha you seem to enjoy trying to use misinformation to drive your narrative. ;p
DBD is/was a game with a balance between hide 'n seek as well as chasing(can call that tag if you wish). It still has the hide 'n seek elements when aura builds aren't being used but I'm mainly speaking to 2v8 here and how it's a counter intuitive mechanic that gets your teammates killed more often than it does help balance out hook states. I'm starting to think you just read the first line and then quoted me lmao.
DBD is a game I enjoy and the theme has shifted to be aura heavy. It wasn't always like this. Mind you I played the game early on prior to the new engine etc… Only returned about a year ago. So things have drastically changed. I enjoy many of the changes but the aura scene is a bit much sometimes.
I enjoy the cat & mouse gameplay of DBD. I am also not the only one who finds aura reading to be far to abundant and over used in the game.
Also Devs did say this game is a Hide 'n seek game. So your are technically wrong in calling it a game of tag. Although when you face off against an aura build on a Killer then yes it tends to become a game of tag as you say. During those games you're correct DBD becomes a game of tag.
Distortion is practically useless with how often it procs. All I'm saying to you is that in general aura is okay but there are too many bloody aura perks both on Survivor and Killer side. It's gotten ridiculous. Although my post was mainly about 2v8 and how having no hook states basically makes you a determinate to your team and more often than not punishes not just you for evading the Killer but also your allies who are near you.
Also Horror is not just feeling your heart ready to pounce out of your chest kind of adrenaline. There is subtle horror driven by the tension of a situation. Where you narrowly avoid being downed or a killer passes right by where you were hiding. Subtle horror plays to anxiety and fear as well. As the gap gradually closes and you feel that tension grow that is subtle horror as well.
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I agree but the killers don't always go for you. Especially with 2+ on a gen. What I'm saying how is it spreading the love if my aura being revealed to the Killer results in my teammate getting downed.
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@Steakdabait said:
wildly depends on who you're asking lmao. lots of players in this community are pretty weak tier gamers and believe it's toxic to just be good at the game, let alone actually use strong stuff. I would personally just say using stuff like BNP, instaheal, and strong maps are what is sweaty af for survivors.
Thanks for your response. I kinda figured people are going to have differing opinions on the matter. Sometimes a more clear narrative appears over time, when you have multiple comments on the subject.
As a reward, please accept our lord and saviour.
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I just really like the 1v1 going for hatch. Spectating others after I sacrifice myself on hook is fun to see as well. I've seen the craziest hatch escapes!
I was on hook a Claudette crawled half way across the map to my hook. The Killer was looking on the opposite side of the map for her without knowing she was already next to me. As soon as I died hatch spawned I kid you not a meter away from her. She crawled down that hatch so fast lmao.
Perhaps I'm a bit biased to the hatch because I've just seen the funniest and coolest hatch escapes/denies or stand offs that I wish others got to experience them more.
Maybe that should be a gamemode… Hatch standoff 1v1. Custom map as well.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806403#Comment_3806403
It does happen like that, sometimes small disagreements can revolve into big opposing camps XD I were also at fault for assumptions like i thought you meant the abillity to pick them up over and over again and not only once (i would still not like it the one time and would find it unfair towards the killer, but thats were we can just agree to disagree)
I would say the condition for the surrender button would be:
"Once only 2 survivors are left in the trial and 3 minutes have passed. Survivors gain the abillity to call upon the entity and sacrifice themselves." It could even be the same animation as like the endgame collapse timer ran out. So there is not unneccessary animation work involved. The 3 minutes are just a number that could be replaced with litteraly any number, i wouldnt go less than that though.
Most importantly though these self sacrifices should not be counted as kills towards the killers MMR because technicly the survivors could still escape through the exit gates (if gens are done, if not yeah the killer has technicly won anyway) Vice versa they shouldnt count as loss towards the survivors MMR either. They should be treated like hatch. A draw. And the tome challenges should just be changed honestly. 4k challenges are unhealthy for the game because in order to not have a game of luck determine wether or not they get challenges, as a killer you are inclined to really slugg for it. To deny hatch like you also stated.
But there are alot of abmyssal tome challenges anyway, on survivor side too. Some even outdated to a point where they become near impossible.That's why I alternate through Killer and Survivor challenges on the Rift. Sometimes there is that "path of least resistance" to be found. During the Lights Out v2 event that's what I did because some of those challenges were hurting my brain.
I think 3 minutes fair. Although that's what the PTB would be for. To see what the appropriate time should be. Unfortunate I don't think this will make it into a PTB even.
I like that the sacrifice doesn't count as a kill. Encouraging Killers to hook. If they don't find the other Survivor in a couple of minutes they may opt to hook the Survivor or allow them to Sacrifice themselves. It basically time gates the slugging period. Also it is a bit of a risk and reward system. Although it keeps the advantage in the Killer side and gives a bit of a head start before hatch.
The draw part like hatch is nice. I can see some people abusing this as well but I think more often than not players will opt to sacrifice.
Also the animation part would save time on implementing the feature, but it would be cool if there was a self-mori animation.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806371#Comment_3806371
Its insane how you can write down so much and actually say so little.
Also Loads of assumptions and words putting in my mouth AGAIN.
I will stand by with what i initially said before it gets too complicated, no matter how hard you try to derive the point:
BOTH sides are stubborn in a scenario like this. Giving the survivors a basekit unbreakable is just implying the killers are at fault here, when its equally the survivors too that just hide and wait for hatch, not touching gens at all and dragging the game into length. And yeah you claim "but they only do it because killers slugg" which is funny because they have not been slugged yet even.
So again, when its both sides fault, why do the survivor get a cake for it? Try to explain it without another textwall of nothingness.
Also you say this:- "It's not biased when it's become readily apparent that the majority of those that I interact with on these Forums are Killer mains first Survivors second."
Funny how my experience is the exact opposite. Yet im not the one who started saying you are a "survivor main", you claimed im biased for killers with only 1 comment of mine, clearly showing your own tribalism. Which is so stupid ( NOT YOU, the tribalism in general i call stupid) because majority of people does play both sides, very view stick to 50% of the game and only ever touch the other side. It should be MORE people that play both sides, there is still alot that only ever experience their sides issiues. But if you are so fixated in putting me in some sort of category and deciding alredy where my views are, from only 1 single comment.. I cant take you serious then, sorry. You are the very issiue that you are ranting about.
Also another Note: Its even sad you decide to stick to tribalising me because with your second point i can resonate very mutch. "Surrender button" or something like that with a timer after x amount of seconds no progress in either hooks or gens when only 2 survivors are left. Whatever.
But i dont agree with your first suggsestion, not at all. And my reasoning is above.You are right and I'm sorry for categorising you as a Killer main. I personally am not a Survivor main either. I play both sides but I definitely lean towards Survivor more. I play more Killer when I want to take a break from Survivor… Just goof around with Huntress etc…
Overall I can see your point with the self res. I don't want UB in the game as a basekit. I don't want the speed increased etc… It is flawed but it's an option that could make the endgame more engaging for the Survivor that is just laying there unable to do much.
It's not my intention to do a textwall lol. Sometimes you just get carried away.
Although, we both are putting words in each other mouth.
How about we start fresh on this topic… I genuinely want to find a feature that doesn't deprive Killers of their fun but still I don't think anyone enjoys laying there bleeding out.
You said you like the second idea. Scrap the self revive. Do you think the ability to sacrifice yourself after a period of time is a viable option? What conditions do you think should be met first?
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806266#Comment_3806266
Alright. When there's two survivors in the game then one of them randomly escapes. They're just dropped outside the gate or whatever. The entity gives them a gold star for being a good and lucky boy. This is what you're asking for with extra, inane steps.
Personally I don't care enough to argue against it. Again I don't really slug for the 4k and almost always let the last survivor go.
I'm glad you don't slug for the 4k. I'm sure your Survivors are far less toxic. At least I hope so.
I don't care if I get hatch. I just want to at least have the base opportunity to even look for it. Usually when I get trials where hatch spawns, generally speaking the Killer has a mori. Although, it's the most fun and engaging 1v1 for me. It's like who's going to find hatch first. Then if they get hatch first, can I open the exit gate in time. Sometimes it's juggling finding hatch while being chased. It's just so much more memorable and engaging even if you die in the end.
I don't want UB to be a basekit perk. Like I don't want the additional speed etc… More just a conditional situation but it has flaws. Which is why I favour my second idea that after a couple minutes you can sacrifice yourself. It's a game after all and people don't want to feel like their time is being wasted.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806298#Comment_3806298
And there we have it, if someone disagrees they must be biased.
What about all the 4k challenges? If you make it impossible to 4k essentially (because people can get up over and over again, even when its only 2 left) or even them sacrificing themselves so the other might get hatch, ofc as a survivor main you dont see a problem here (see im using the same divisive language like you just did, which kinda ruined all credibillity you had).
Fact is, mostly survivors AND killers are too stubborn to just end the game. Why does the survivor side get a feature to help them in this case?I don't understand? I really don't get it. I explicitly said one time. Do you understand the word… one. Genuine question because I don't understand how you got the pick up over and over again.
I am in no way saying they deserve hatch. It's not impossible to 4k again you are using your own "divisive language". Also you aren't doing anything to discredit me. Matter of fact I have asked you to disprove me a couple times now and you failed. Also, you failed to prove how my idea would be abused or how it would negatively impact the game. That it would do more harm than good even. Plus, you tried to imply that I'm suggesting Survivors deserve hatch and making it "impossible" for killers to get a 4k. This is ridiculous, are you saying the only way a Killer can get a 4k is if they deny hatch before it even spawn by slugging the last two Survivors, hmm? Mate, the reason why your manipulative language fails is because I'm just saying it as it is. While you are trying to silver tongued bend things without actually disproving anything I've said.
I'm by far not being anywhere close to stubborn as well. I am literally speaking to the fact that when the Killer slugs the last two remaining Survivors. They are intentionally doing so to deny hatch even spawning. Am I entitled for wanting the base opportunity to be given for the last Survivor to try and get hatch(as the Developers intended). The hatch was implemented into the game for this very reason. Hatch isn't a win for the Survivor, it's a draw for them. I don't follow yours or others personal preferences of what a win-condition is(it's cool if you have those) but the Devs explicitly state what a win-condition is. That's the standard to which I judge the gameplay with. I find it to be fair. A 3k is a win for the Killer. Hatch is a tie for Survivor. The only win is when a Survivor escapes via the exit gates. It's obnoxious and spoiled to think a Killer can only win at a 4k. I think that's really unfair to Killers. Sincerely do you think a 3k is not a fair win-condition?
It's not biased when it's become readily apparent that the majority of those that I interact with on these Forums are Killer mains first Survivors second.
Also, where did you get this impossible 4k? What issue do you have with a Survivor not wanting to sit around twiddling their thumbs as they wait for the Killer to find the other Survivor? You failed to express how it'd be abused in accordance with my parameters. So please explain why a Survivor can't sacrifice themselves after a few minutes or pick themselves up "ONCE" from the dying state(one health state, so they'd be injured still)? I'm truly asking you to show me why this would do more harm than good?
_____________
YOUR QUESTION…
I'll answer your question "Why does the survivor side get a feature to help them in this case?" Despite I've answered this number of times above…
Forgive me but I want to clarify the question more. Why does the Survivor side get a feature to help them in this case? The case being when there are explicitly "two" Survivors left in a trial. Why should they get the ability to self revive "once" per trial and or be able to sacrifice themselves after a few minutes. I think that's fair to clarify.
We can start with hatch. By slugging the last two the Killer denies hatch even spawning. Essentially, barring a feature of the game from even taking place. Denying the last Survivor the "base" opportunity to even go for hatch.
I want to clarify when I say base I mean the literal opportunity to even go for hatch. The first example that comes to mind is going for a job interview and before you even got go for the interview you were denied. You didn't even get the opportunity to even attempt the interview. If this happens to someone in real life I'm so sorry lol.
It's not about giving hatch to the last Survivor. It's about giving them the base-intended opportunity to even try to go for hatch. Do you understand what I mean by that? If not I can attempt to clarify it better.
Alternatively, it's about making the fight more engaging. Giving the downed Survivor a self pick up once per trial assuming the conditions are met(2 Survivors left in trial) allows them to still participate in the trial. Which is better than twiddling their thumbs. It's not fun nor is it engaging laying there. In fact I'll tell you something I already said in one of the first comments on this Discussion regarding a flaw with this idea. One of the potential issues is that a Killer may wait for the self revive then down the Survivor again meaning we are back to square one. I don't know why this was difficult for you to say, it's an obvious one I think.
Hence, I kinda like option two a bit more. The ability to sacrifice yourself while downed was an option(again assuming the conditions are met 2 survivors left in trial) then the Survivor can initiate the hatch part of endgame. This doesn't have to occur and if a Survivor "chooses" to stay they can. It's not a forced mechanic but an optional one. For those who don't want to sit in the downed state for 4 minutes. It may not seem like a lot of time but that is nearly half the time of an average trial. Being that trials can last on average 10 minutes above or below. Meaning when the Killer slugs one of the two remaining Survivors on the ground… They are essentially robbing you of half of a trials length almost. Most times you wont bleed out and the other Survivor will be downed before the 4 minutes mark which actually brings me to the next issue.
When you deny hatch and slug. there is a good chance that Survivor will have to hide or loop for 4 minutes straight. This is at endgame where there generally are a lack of pallets. Meaning Survivors are more likely to go down much sooner. Additionally that means the Survivor has to not only evade the Killer for 4 minutes assuming they don't hook but they also have to then search for hatch. Even if the Killer comes back in 2-3 minutes to hook the Survivor because they couldn't find the other one. It's still not fun.
It's funny I'm talking about fun and you are concerned about Killers "win". I'm not even talking about the Survivor getting hatch or deserving the win just for them to have a more engaging and fun experience. You are more concerned about a Killer getting a 4k. I'm not even talking about Survivors winning. I don't care if I get hatch or die in the end. I just want to not waste my time or I want to have the base-intended chance to even attempt to get hatch. If I get it cool if not at least it was a fun little 1v1 at the end.
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@Jim_Tonic said:
Basekit UB suggsestion again? no. No this is bad, it will be abused by survivors in an instant.
So if a Survivor only gets one self revive. This specifically only activates when the last two Survivors are alive. Not 3 or 4 but only 2 Survivors are left.
Only and only then could a Survivor pick themselves up "one health-state".
OR
Allowing a Survivor to self sacrifice themselves after a couple of minutes of being left on the ground. *(again only activates with two survivors left in the trial)*
All I got from you was no cause no. Please explain what you don't agree with. What part of my idea do you find will be abused?
EDIT* I'm beginning to understand why nothing really gets proper feedback in the forums. It's dawning on me that a large portion of responses I see on posts (even mine) are from Killer mains. The realisation that I'm talking to the people that "of course" don't want what I'm saying.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806181#Comment_3806181
A loss or a win toward an invisible number you have no real interaction with feels inconsequential.
Killers are supposed to kill survivors. Killing more survivors feels like winning more decisively. People like winning in PVP activities. Making 4ks impossible and telling killers that they'll take their 2ks and be happy with it is incredibly clumsy and counterintuitive.
Also I wouldn't say most killers aren't satisfied unless they get the 4k. I know I don't care. If it were happening most games you'd get more slugging for the 4k, which equates to more time on the ground and the stats do not bear that out. Sorry. But I also understand why some go for it and don't blame them.
Sorry it got delete for me but basically I think it's ridiculous that people would be upset at a tie. If you got a 2k it simply meant you had a challenging match and maybe should acknowledge the remaining two Survivors played well. Maybe the whole team played well and as a side effect (despite your skill) two Survivors escaped. A less competent team would of died but they Survived so I say bravo.
Although sometimes getting a draw in competitive games can be frustrating you have to remember you don't deserve to win. So ya, be happy with the 2k when possible. Although it's a play on words with what you did. You made it seem like Killers should just get 2k and be happy but if I were to correct your statement. It'd be more like this, "take their 3k and be happy." This stands true for me. Stop worrying about the 4k and take the 3k and be happy. If you get a 4k, awesome!
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@Altan said:
"Here's the thing. Survivors only hide and wait because they know the Killer is going to aggressively rotate to each remaining gen. The risk of getting caught doing gens increases with how many gens are left and if you are 3 gen'd. If it's a smaller map it again amps up the difficulty."
See that's survivor skill issue. They just do gen, they don't think about how gen placement play a role. I use that a lot as a killer. I see people being try hard gen rushers? I control them to repair gen far and leave the 3 last gen practically next to each other, at this point their game is lost. Survivor need to understand gen repair placement matters. There's nothing to fix there, just people need to understand game mechanics.
As a survivor I always aim to do gen at the middle of the map first because that only leave gens on the edges by the end of the game which is way harder to patrol. If you get 2 gens opposite of each other at the end it's very hard to cover for most killer if 2 people start repairing those 2 opposite gens.
The issue with people just needing to understand and it's a skill issue. Is pretty correct. I'd agree people need to understand gen placement a bit better. It's not easy to keep track of gens sometimes but keeping a mental note of gens that pop and their general location is definitely related to the skill issue you speak off.
My comment was not on the placement as much as it was about how difficult it is for Survivors to pick up gens. If you have 3+ gens to do and two Survivors left. It's rough but if you got 1-2 gens left it's doable and can be a fun challenge. Definitely skill mixed with some RNG plays are role here.
Although, when you "solo-queue" a lot of this is thrown out the window. Sometimes you don't get to choose what gens you do because the Killer applies pressure. Your teammate is not paying attention. It's not SWF so it's not like you can ask your teammates what gens have been done if you forget.
I agree with you on doing the middle gen. If no one is doing middle I'll gravitate towards that one. For the exact same reason.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806181#Comment_3806181
A loss or a win toward an invisible number you have no real interaction with feels inconsequential.
Killers are supposed to kill survivors. Killing more survivors feels like winning more decisively. People like winning in PVP activities. Making 4ks impossible and telling killers that they'll take their 2ks and be happy with it is incredibly clumsy and counterintuitive.
Also I wouldn't say most killers aren't satisfied unless they get the 4k. I know I don't care. If it were happening most games you'd get more slugging for the 4k, which equates to more time on the ground and the stats do not bear that out. Sorry. But I also understand why some go for it and don't blame them.
That's chill if you don't care but it's clear that "most" do care. I personally don't care for the 4k either but I find you and I are in the minority. I think it's disingenuous to say that most Killers don't care about the 4k. When 7/10 games it's clear the Killer wants it. Of course in lower mmr you'll have Killers just wanting to have fun.
Mind you I specifically said regardless of MMR. My comment and implementation of the screenshot was not to bring up mmr. I even clarified this and how I am talking about the win condition. How it's been set by the Devs very clearly. In DBD there are win conditions regardless if you care about mmr or not. If you want to play your way that's fine as well but it doesn't change the official win condition and I don't agree people should just play how they want as if it's the official standard because that is, if not, one of the leading contributors to toxicity in the community. As people can't decide one what is a win or not. Leading to frustrations on both sides.
As for "Killers are supposed to kill Survivors." I was literally going to add a bit about this but I thought nah it's too cliché for me to assume the other guy is going to actually say this, but you did lmao. Letters on a screen can come off not as intended. So please don't take this as an insult if you do. I just got a little giggle out of this but it's not laughing at you.
I didn't add this part but I was going to say in my comment… It's how Killers think, "Killers are supposed to kill Survivors"(literally word for word) and it's the Survivors job to hide, repair gens and attempt to escape (unhook etc). Although here you are saying Killers job is to kill. Is there any way for Survivors to prevent the Killer from participating in the match? What I mean, is there any method similar to how slugging prevents a Survivor from participating in the match. Can I as a Survivor prevent the Killer from participating in chases or interacting with the game. Do I prevent the Killer from hunting, picking up survivors, hitting gens? No…
Flashlights, sabo and protection hits are intended mechanics in the game and technically you could argue that slugging is a part of the game as well in some aspects. I would like to clarify I do think there is a time and place to slug and it's 100% justified. Although, doing gens, unhooking etc… doesn't prevent the Killer from participating in the match. Where as slugging nearly removes all ability to participate in the trial for a Survivor.
As for stats I don't know what stats you've seen as most stats should be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen statements by the Devs about the percentage and combined time on the ground. Although these are averages. As well this is a fallacy. Of course majority of the times a Killer will pick up a Survivor. When you have 4 Survivors in a trial. Majority of the those downs if not 99.99% of them are followed by a hook. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your stats do not reflect what we are talking about here.
The issue is not on the general consensus of slugging. It's regarding a situational event that takes place when there are specifically only two Survivors left. You are comparing apples to oranges. If the Devs restricted the stats to the percentage/time spent downed when two Survivors are left in a trial. You'll find that 43% and 24% becomes much much greater. I literally have zero doubts about this. It wouldn't even be gambling money at that point if it was a bet. You'd be guaranteed to win. Mate I live it nearly every time I am one of the last two left. It's just facts. I see it even when I spectate and I spectate 9/10 of my matches to the very end.
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PLEASE READ THIS important
***If you do statistics you'll learn that you can not take such broad general data and say here is the answer when asking a very specific question that has parameters. If I asked how long do Survivors spend on the ground on average during a trial? That is a general enough question that the stats DBD provides is sufficient. If I asked how many chests are opened during the trial on average? Again a general question. Although if I ask, "How many chests are opened during the endgame collapse?" Well now that is a far more specific question that has specific parameters set in place. I have to eliminate the noise that is everything prior to the endgame collapse. I hope this helps you understand better why grabbing generic statistics is not an appropriate argument.
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@Altan said:
You know, you're putting a band aid on the issue, not fixing it. Do you know why killer do that? Because the 2 last survivors are playing hide and seek hoping the other die first so they can get the hatch. Maybe fix this behavior first before blaming killers, again.
This is a double edge argument. I agree Survivors do play hide-n-seek more often than not at the end.
For me personally if there is one gen left. I'll do my best to get that one gen done. I also see other Survivors do this as well. I've had a few times where the random and I clutched an escape. Although I agree most people just play hide-n-seek.
Here's the thing. Survivors only hide and wait because they know the Killer is going to aggressively rotate to each remaining gen. The risk of getting caught doing gens increases with how many gens are left and if you are 3 gen'd. If it's a smaller map it again amps up the difficulty.
Therefore the remaining Survivors "need" to hide. Many times I had to hide for minutes because the gens were so close and the Killer was rotating between the gens so fast it was impractical to even get on one for more than a few moments. Not saying Killers are too sweaty but they are very "determined" lol.
Yet most of all, Survivors tend to hide because we know what's coming. Despite a 3k being a win for the Killer. Most Killers aren't satisfied unless they get the 4k. Many times I have opted to sacrifice myself whilst there are only two remaining Survivors and the other was in chase and on death hook. Hence, I either body blocked the Killer(taking the hit) or took chase accepting my fate. Yet does the Killer hook me? No, he immediately proceeds to hunt down the other Survivor.
It's not about blaming Killers but a fact is a fact. Those who play Killer regardless of finger pointing… take advantage of the system in order to deny the last Survivor the opportunity to even have the "minimum chance" to try and get hatch. Please note below, hatch is not a 'win' for the Survivor. It's literally considered a draw. It's not about mmr but it's clear here what the Devs intend the win conditions to be.
The developers aren't forcing Killers to slug at the end of a game. They designed the game to be played a certain way. The killer is meant to hook the Survivor. It's the refusal to participate in normal gameplay that has led to this issue. If Killers simply hooked instead of so desperately wanting the 4k… This whole post would be obsolete. If the Devs intended for slugging? Why even implement hatch, hmm. They intended for the last Survivor to have an opportunity to get hatch. It's basically meant to be a 1v1 at the end if you think about it.
You will never get rid of slugging. There is no fix nor band-aid that can cure slugging. Although if we allow for Survivors to punish slugging via being able to pick themselves up after a fixed period of time or the option to self sacrifice after a few minutes… This will increase the rate at which the last Survivor can at "MINIMUM" have the opportunity to even try to go for hatch. Either that or the Killers will start hooking more and the slugging will be more situational. Which is fine with me. If the Killer slugs the last two Survivors next to each other and hooks/moris them. I have no issues with this. *edit: I want to add my post is not about giving an opportunity for the Survivors to "win". It's about not wasting people's time. No one wants to have their fun time wasted and if you are sitting on limited time to play a few matches… You don't want to sit their while another person(Killer) goes picking flowers looking for the other Survivor, ya get what I mean.
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@Vellioh said:
- Similar to anti-face camping on hooks, if the Killer leaves an explicit radius around the Survivor… A meter will fill up allowing a Survivor to pick themselves up one health state.
- Alternatively, it can be made base-kit for Survivors to be able to pick themselves up once per trial. Assuming their are only two Survivors left in a trial.
Both of these will result in the Killer just being forced to sit over the survivor for the same outcome. The exit gates can still not be opened until gens are completed and the hatch is still not on the map. The problem is that the devs have backed themselves into a corner where the survivors are stuck for 4 minutes in the downed state which is a long time but nowhere near enough time to do multiple generators. At the same time hooking the downed survivor immediately puts the killer at a disadvantage because typically they're just waiting at one of the exit gates creating a 50/50 escape situation. That AND the killer has the added task of having to consider hatch being on the map as well. The design of the game aggressively funnels Killers into participating in a behavior that the players collectively agree isn't positive to the overall experience. This is indication of nothing more than bad design.
I really like what you said and thank you for giving valuable feedback. 😁
In many cases the 50/50 is straight up correct but it really is map dependant still. There are maps where the the exit gates for that Trial are literally right next to each other. On smaller maps it's also more difficult to pull off an escape.
I do see many Survivors (spectating) not even bother to go for hatch. They'll just sit at an exit gate and hope for the best. I know I've personally done this and sometimes I get out. Although, I only do this when I know the Killer is basically search one half of the map and I've been searching the other half with no luck of hatch. At that point I am fairly certain I got unlucky and the Killer is going to find hatch in the next few moments. Hence, I rush over to a exit gate. Plus, Killers will often sit on hatch so they can slam it in my face so I've learned to just try my luck at the exit gate lol.
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The point about Killer sitting on a Survivor until they bleed out or staying within radius. Does bring up a problem. Hence this is why I kinda like the number two idea a bit more. Once per trial allowing the last two Survivors to pick themselves up once from the dying state. With what you said I'm inclined to even throw in a few seconds of endurance to ensure sitting on a Survivor is not abused.
Now, you got me thinking… What if that Killer really wants to down that Survivor again and just waits for the revive and hits them again. If they have endurance just chase and down them again. Now they don't have access to that self revive and the problem of sitting their until you bleed out or the other Survivor is downed is a problem once again.
Maybe make it so after a Survivor picks themselves back up… The next time the Killer downs them an automatic mori occurs. The only issue with that is the Killer may just wait for the Survivor to pick themselves back up and proceed to get a mori.
So, perhaps scrap both my ideas… When a there are specifically only two Survivors left in a trial. Allow the Survivor that had been downed the ability to sacrifice themselves. Not right away because this will be abused but the Survivor will have option to heal as normal BUT after around a minute for instance(or 50-70 seconds) a Survivor can sacrifice themselves. It'd even be cool if a sorta sacrificial mori was made for this instance.
What do you think about that? After a minute or two allowing the Survivor to sacrifice themselves instead of bleeding out for 4 minutes. Tell me what you think it could work or not… I'm genuinely interested in finding ideas to make it more engaging for both sides. Although, I don't want to punish Killers it's a bit unfair to suggest Killers would be punished when Survivors off the bat are punished. I know Survivors enjoy the game more when I hook the second to last Survivor(sacrificing them) and that hunt for hatch begins. I've tested it out and I get ggs nearly every time I do that. When I do slugging I rarely get a gg and it's more toxic. Plus hunting down hatch and the last Survivor is far more fun and adrenaline inducing than trying to slug for me. Additionally, 3k is an automatic win in the mmr system. So I have zero reason to guarantee a 4k. Why not make the 1v1 more fun for both sides if I already "technically" won. There is far more at stake for the Survivor than for me, ya get what I mean?
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@KatsuhxP said:
Nope I don't understand you at all, I rather don't see why I should be punished even tho I can still hit it, it's in the duration and range of my attack so of course I should be able to hit it. Of course it looks funny because it's in the last frames, but it really wouldn't make sense if it didn't hit because the hitbox is still there and therefore the hit didn't end yet.
You also can't and shouldn't be able to dodge it, you're in range and you didn't get away fast enough, so I get the hit.
I get what you mean. I've just come from games that perhaps are a bit more niche sometimes. So I get what you mean but at the same time it's silly to me because all I hear is that you want to be able to secure a hit with or without skill. That's what rubs me the wrong way. I'd rather be punished for being impatient and falling for a Survivor faking a vault. Just adds skill to the game. Insuring you time your hits right. Even 360s have changed and are not as powerful as they used to be. I like the change. Makes it more fair for Killers but it's still a skill that can be mastered.
To each their own though. Also didn't mean to hit the YES to answered question. First time using this section for questions lol. T'is but an accident.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801066#Comment_3801066
This is because the Devs believe the game is a fun intense horror chase experience but the community has decided it's a comp sweat fest.The Devs and anyone who likes to play casually is correct, but the community definitely believes they are more correct than the vast majority who play casually including the Devs. It's 100% an entitlement thing, because the community as a whole has an entitlement issue AND a sportsmanship issue. A bad one.
Surprisingly enough, people still don't understand what the "official" win-conditions are for both sides. This just adds to the entitlement as you said.
I've read over and over again that people feel 3k is a tie and 4k is a win. Yet the wiki clearly states what it means to win/tie/lose. I've taken a screenshot for those who want a reference. Yet, it still feels like the community at large still follows old ways and if the Killer doesn't get a 4k then it's a loss(not everyone thinks this way).
I agree that the player base on both sides are a bit entitled. Although BHVR should of clarified from the start what the win-condition really was. They technically have but very little awareness is brought to it. How many games do you see the Killer slug the last two Survivors because they "feel they have to" otherwise they lost. When in reality the moment they got the 3k they won! Many view the hatch as a win but in reality giving hatch or losing a Survivor to hatch does nothing for that Survivor. It legitimately is neutral (a draw) for that Survivor. Yet Killers will feel like they lost to hatch and Survivors feel they "won". When in reality they didn't win or lose.
If Killer-mains were conditioned to know 3k is automatically a victory. Maybe just maybe they wouldn't feel they needed to sweat as hard for the 4k. Ya know what I mean… I mainly spoke of Killers but only cause Survivors are just weird lmao. There are so many win-conditions in Survivors I could right a whole post on it!
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801188#Comment_3801188
Just to clarify I have adapted, I get 3/4k very regularly by going anti loopers and tombstone Myers. I counter and tunnel out the loopers asap and usually win (usually followed by angry rants of survivors post game). When I say killers became a joke I refer to the concept in general that survivors don't feel threatened, they feel safe to the point they confidently try to loop all the time. Lights out does bring that feeling of dread and gives killers that threatening edge they have been missing imo. To me, killers should be a threat and something survivors avoid but as time has gone on people just don't have the same level of dread for the killer as they used to.
I get what you mean now. My personal take is you become desensitised after awhile. When I first played DBD it was straight up a horror game but now I don't get that same adrenaline rush. Although, I blame Killers a bit for this as well. With how prevalent and effective tunnelling can be early on. I think Survivors have become numb or tired. There are moments where call it bad RNG but I've had Myers follow me from one side of the map back over to the other side a couple times in a row. Simply because he is thirsty for the hook. When you hear that high pitched DA DA DA DA DA! for long periods of time. It loses it's charm.
Please understand that I've blocked the Killer number of times and in some cases the Killer doesn't even hit me. They just finally go around me so that they can continue chasing that one Survivor. Sometimes I try and take chase for someone on death hook early into the match but rarely does that work. The Killer is so focused on optimising their chance of winning, they have to tunnel one out early to secure the 4k.
BUT I get the looping part. Yet that's one of the few things that is fun in DBD. A good chase with looping mixed with alternating loops. What am I supposed to do? Hold 'w'. I still go down after a bit, rarely do I escape. I don't even run DS, OTR, DH… I legit don't even own DS and OTR(I know Killers don't find them fun). As for DH it's not even unlocked for other Survivors and I don't play David. Part of the fun for me is making quirky builds. I made a flashlight build that basically upgraded my flashlight every time I stunned the Killer with Exultation. Although I stopped that despite it being fun cause umm well I deserved getting hooked in those trials lmao. It's fun cause you go in with a brown/yellow item(doesn't have to be a flashlight) and basically use the Killer to upgrade your items for free. Being that you get a lot of brown items it's a nice little side challenge in the match.
I have to make little fun challenges like this because ma dude, after awhile the jumpscare Myers and Ghostfaces and having a sweaty Xenomorph chase you just numbs you from that horror aspect. Eventually you need to find alternative ways to derive entertainment from the game. This is a game after all and we are all supposed to have fun for a few hours before re-joining our real life. Mind you if some of these players (Survivor/Killer) were to be as competitive/sweaty-try-hard as they are in-game, in real life. Without a doubt people would either be financially well off or millionaires lmao.
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I wouldn't mind if maps were just random. Sure no RPD cosplay but holy cow. There is only so much Myers Lampkin Lane/Institute… Nemesis RPD that I can take. Back to back to bloody back. It's fun at first but after awhile it gets tiresome. Then the time I do get a legit match it's a Xeno or some Killer who is a beast with Clown who never misses a bottle. Oh then the single match I get that finally doesn't feel like a sweat fest… The Killer DCs. Of course my next match is the most toxic. Although after like a handful of bad matches I finally get that really fun match and that's what keeps me going lol.
I think the issue you are pointing out is on both sides. I'm really getting tired of sweaty Killers bring every meta perk with map offering. I'm not even trying to win at this point. It's gotten to the point where even though I have around 250hrs only in the game. I am able to narrow down and in some cases predict who the Killer is just based on the offerings. Especially when it's "secret" you know it's a mori. 7/10s it's a Myers tombstone.
So I get where you are coming from. The game isn't boring. When you get a good match it's a lot of fun. Especially when you get a good chase or a challenging but fair/fun match as Killer. Yet, this game attracts the most competitive people. This is why I can't wait for bots and I pray there is an offline mode. People are greedy/toxic/egomaniacs who generally speaking enjoy the power trip of either demolishing a Killers with looping/chain flashes/etc… To the point where it's not like eh good save but you are just being a bit toxic now and then tea bagging afterwards or a Killer sweating and tunnelling out a Survivor one by one than slugging the last two before hooking one and waiting for them to die. Then with the last Survivor they ensure they close hatch and only then will they hook the last survivor.
Truly, the reason why we can't have nice things and have chill matches that are both fun and challenging for both sides… Has to do with the fact that the maturity level of modern day society has plummeted. Most people can't see past their own elbows. So it's hard to expect most people to actually empathise with others and realise we all just wanna have a good time on a bloody "video-game" designed for "entertainment". Getting back to back 4k's or escapes literally means nothing. Your cosmetics and P100 means nothing. The game is meaningless. It's sole purpose is to derive some entertainment for an hour or so before getting back to life. Yet people sweat at this game harder than they do in their own life. If people actually put the same effort they do in most games. They'd probably be either well off financially or millionaires.
Just keep your head up for those fun matches. I still enjoy the game and just look forward to those few more chill matches. It's funny I play casually and I lose most of my matches but somehow I feel like I'm going upwards in mmr lmao.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Only played for the tome rewards. Tried both sides. Being a killer main I instantly found it pretty bad and boring so I did the survivor tome side only (begrudgingly). Tome rewards done, won't be doing lights out again as either side.
It's a good idea in principle, definitely adds more suspense as survivor, sitting on a gen not knowing where, when, or if the killer is going to sneak up on you. But I found it too repetitive always going Vs Dracula or ghost face and gens just fly if people actually work them.
Shame really because I was looking forward to that horror aspect of dbd back the way it used to be before killers became a joke for survivors to literally run circles around.
I agree the Survivor Rift is a bit more chill to do.
Although, I don't know what matches you are playing. Majority of my trials end at 2-3 gens on average. Killers have become so aggressive and run the dirtiest/sweatiest builds. I came across an Oni with this build that made every skill check the tiniest thing. The speed at which skill checks went was fast! He didn't even do hit and run. This man was getting his power in a couple minutes, maybe faster. This man was using the 180 spins and abusing every mechanic he could in the game. Easily someone with many hours in the game but it genuinely was the most toxic build I've ever faced against a Killer. That's saying something cause every other match I face are pretty much perma exposed and gen regression builds lol.
Us Survivors barely had a chance to loop. Yet you are saying Killers are jokes that easily get looped. Majority of the Survivor community are not that good. If you are facing competent Survivors then you have been winning your Killer matches with flying colours and now you are facing a genuine challenge. My advice, adapt cause they did and that's why they are better. You are probably stubbornly playing how you want to play expecting a win or not to get countered. You have to be willing to adapt to the Survivors or else you will be slamming your head into a brick wall.
My recommendation is check out the mmr system and what is constituted as a win. Then create your own 'win-condition' around that. If you don't want to climb the proverbial sweat ladder. Then I believe a 2k is considered a draw and 0-1 lowers mmr, and 3-4k increases mmr. If you are facing tougher opponents but are not enjoying it. Make a meme/fun build that is more of a handicap to you. Then go in and have fun without expecting to win. Over time you'll lower your mmr to a point where you'll have more fun regardless of builds.
POST-EDIT: I was in a similar head space as you on both sides. I still sometimes get frustrated but after checking out what the win conditions are I've found it much easier to enjoy my matches. It's easy to get frustrated when Survivors are looping you constantly and then when you finally get the down… the other blinds you and gets the save; I get it. Although, you either love it or hate it. I've grown to love the flashlight saves as Killer. It gets me going and gets the adrenaline going like, "OH hehe! You want to play like that come here you little…" but I'm laughing and having a good time during these moments. Gotta respect Survivors that care enough to save their teammates. When you play enough Survivor you begin to appreciate the others that put themselves in the line of fire to make sure you get to enjoy the match for as long as possible. Cause I've had teammates who just crouch walk around the map while I die on hook lol. So I respect good survivors because they generally are playing as a team. It's actually really cool to see people take protection hits because they actually care enough to help out another 'random' survivor they don't know.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800226#Comment_3800226
Respectfully, you're playing Skurchent in Lights Out. A Killer with easy basekit tracking, mobility, stealth… gosh, everything. I'm not sure you get to say the genrush buff is okay, you're playing the 3Gen and info queen. Of course it doesn't matter to you and you've "never been genrushed in your entire Killer career". You're playing as the Skull Merchant. If people can't do the gens to start with, then they just give up because you are the Skull Merchant.
I don't know how you got me playing SM equalled 3 genning and DRONES. When I specifically specified M1-only with NO-DRONE-USE. I don't know what to tell ya. I made it abundantly clear I use M1 only. I don't know how you misread me playing SM for that other stuff lol.
Also I wasn't playing SM in Lights Out. I've only played Dracula in Lights Out and I refuse to use wolf form because I don't like the sense of being able to track Survivors. I personally find it cheap and ruins the theme of Lights Out. Those images were just from a normal trial.
Simply was making a point on how playing smart even with M1 can easily net you a 3-4k win. That Killers complain way to much about gen-rushing. Plus my Killer main when I played Killer more exclusively was Huntress/Nurse. I've only recently been playing SM; Solely because I love her Mori. Although I understand how much her drones are hated, so I strictly use M1. I've never used Drones for anti-looping, gen holding nor for basic gameplay. So, I don't know where you got me abusing her power from.
Also, sometimes Survivors give up regardless of me only playing M1 on SM. I mean you saw my perks right. I am at a massive disadvantage here lol. No gen regress or perma-exposed kind of stuff. Just my M1 and me.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800508#Comment_3800508
I definitely still enjoy the mode, liked it both sides the first time. I just think that the 20% wasn't really needed, just like halve it. Or give Killers a bit more info because some Killers have none and they functionally can't really play this mode.
Ya 10% boost wouldn't be bad. You'd basically be giving Survivors the Resilience perk; I think that's fair. Add the fact that many Survivors opt to do gens together it'd be well utilised.
My only concern with giving more intel so 'some' Killers can do better. Is that would immediately be abused by the Killers that accel in this mode.
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@Langweilig said:
I don’t get what killers should have against this gamemode. I won most times with dried and doctor. I struggled a bit with nemesis, but there I played really bad. Overall my killer experience was great and very relaxing and as survivor it was one time good one time bad.
This! Even for Survivors it can be pretty challenging but I think it's more that this mode is not everyone's cup of tea. I can vouch that I am not the biggest fan of this mode; Despite enjoying the theme of it. Although I don't think it means the mode is bad.
Lights Out sorta reminds me of Ruthless mode in PoE for those who know. It's a bit more hardcore but it leans towards those who want to add extra difficulty as Survivor. Maybe those Killers who want to meme around and get into that Myers cosplay, ya know.
If anything I feel Lights Out is the closest DBD has gotten to 'Movie-isk' level of horror. Survivors are tripping over things(running into everything) just like the movies. The Killer has no terror radius and just appears out of nowhere… like the movies. Everything feels dark and shrouded like the… Although not everyone wants the movie experience cause we don't get the same "plot-armour" level.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798095#Comment_3798095
And how would you feel if I flipped this on Survivor side?
Because that is what Killers were saying last Lights Out. Was it fair then? No. Is it fair in the other direction? No.
I wasn't there during the prior Lights out. Although I have heard people were not happy with it haha.
Still I don't see the issue with a boost to gen repairing. I find the majority of Killers complaining about gen-rushing simply were conditioned by lower mmr/skilled survivors. They were used to an easy 3-4k win. Then all of a sudden BAM! They meet a Survivor competent enough to give them a run for their money. Now they complain because they chased a 'single' Survivor for a 5 minutes and got gen-rushed.
I've never been gen rushed in my entire Killer career. If you don't tunnel/face-proxy camp hook/etc… and apply pressure where it needs to be by playing smart. There is no reason why you can't win against more competent players. edit Mind you I don't play Killer very often nowadays so maybe one day I'll get gen rushed lol.
If I can consistently get back to back 3-4k wins with Skull Merchant(M1-only). Then players have no excuse. Why SM? Cause "Fire Moon CEO" plus mori equals badass. I mean I legit just played a match to for the sake of this. Ash got hatch cause it's Ash lol. Part way through they just gave up and let me mori them. They had 2 gens left. I mori'd Bill in front of Ash while he was still on hook hehe.
POST-EDIT I'm not saying Killers should get 3-4k in higher tier lobbies(this was probably around mid mmr). Although there is no reason why a Killer can't average a 2-3k in higher mmr matches. Unless you are being reckless and chasing too much. You should be able to get at least 2k. Especially if you don't spread hooks out like me.
Perks below but I'll name them for those unfamiliar:
Beast of Prey, Distressing, Sloppy Butcher, Deerstalker. (Sloppy Butcher is meant to add pressure but sometimes I don't run it)
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Generally speaking if the survival rate is around 40% on average. I think Lights Out has done a good job at keeping closer to that survival rate. The 20% repair boost to gens seems fair. If you take into account Killers technically have abilities. They get to keep their M2 but in exchange for no perks we get a boost to repairs. It's an eye for an eye ya feel meh. We don't get 'Window of Opportunity' but you get Dracula wolf-form and Doc spamming HAHAHAHAHA! AHHHH! lol.
I've gone through the whole Rift and I don't see a single challenge that says 'get four sacrifices in a single trial'. Pretty much all Killer challenges are straight forward and simple and I find it humorous that Killers feel they require a 3-4k average to feel they've won. I get there is no official win condition but I think the reason people care so much about SWF-Gen rushing is because it ruins their "win-condition".
What do you want? Do you as you play Killer believe you are entitled to get a 3-4k every other trial? This is why I find Killer mains to be pampered. How long for insta-blind flashlights(probably well deserved though lmao) or Dead Hard to be nerfed, hmm? In comparison to how long did it take to get an anti-face camping hook mechanic that rarely works cause Killers just proxy-camp now. I just see Killers getting a bit more love on average. Survivors are like the first born. They still get love but also receive more severe punishments. Then Killers are the youngest child that gets a talking to and then after get to have ice cream.
If you just play in accordance to your challenges you'll have way more fun. Stop worrying about 3-4k's/gen-rushing/flashlights… as Killer and just enjoy the trials. If you get one or two sacrifice that's a win in my book. Hence I don't see the issue with coordinated survivors having a higher ratio of escapes on average. It's a video game, we all just gotta turn off that ego and remember we all just wanna have some fun. 😎 Plus, I don't know about you but as a Killer I feel it's my responsibility to make the chases/trial in general fun for Survivors. Although I understand not everyone feels that way.
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@VomitMommy said:
I kinda like idea to increase base brightness (so survivors can see little bit better), but go back to dark version while in chase (maybe let it linger when chase ends)
People already use reshaders and enhance the game via their computers brightness. Just add those two image brightness things games use. When the left image is barely visible… Ya know what I mean lol. Then players can either do what they probably already 'are' doing or they can just opt into playing the game as intended.
I just refuse to change the game files for graphics and install reshaders. Although it's been unofficially accepted. Technically if you do get banned for whatever unlucky reason, BHVR will not help you. Despite how unheard of and ridiculously improbable it is. There is always that one dude who rolls a bad hand. It's like you use stuff for 3 years but something changes in an update to the anti-cheat and just so happens to start banning reshaders… Call me paranoid but I'd rather not risk it lol.
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@Langweilig said:
In think you play generally with too dark settings
The only thing for this is that I genuinely don't want to detract from the darker theme of DBD by increasing the brightness simply to have a better time on Dredge. I'll most definitely just have to tough it out, ya know. :P
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I'm using (EDIT* Sorry I'm using default brightness) and my vibrancy is above average a bit for NVIDIA. I thought my brightness was a bit higher. Naturally I increase the contrast cause the base settings of a PC are a flat dull colour. I'm using default settings in DBD. Technically, I'm using near default settings and the game's darkness is from my understanding how the game is meant to be played. Serious if I turn the brightness to far up you wont be able to see the box around "All Channels" and the slide bar is already barely visible.
The reason I don't increase brightness or other settings too much as I said it makes the browser and most tabs blend together and simply unpleasant to look at. Although DBD was meant to be aesthetically more dark. I'll include screenshots below to show you what my average game looks like. 😎
As for the pun comment. It really is just friendly banter. Mate I'm so used to the CSGO banter from the older days that part of my brain was waiting for you to make a punny comment back at me lmao. Feel free to hit me with one though.
I get what you mean by dark now… Cause on RPD it's not as dark and it's manageable to see. Although I don't know if this is an addon or feature but in chase I couldn't see dredge's outline(greyscale aura). Although on other maps that are naturally darker… Like the foresty/junkyard like maps. It's an absolute nightmare to verse Dredge.
This is where I thought a 30% reduction in the outer side of darkness would be not so bad. Maybe even lower, closer to 15-20% reduction. Keeping the darkness effect but on some maps (I wish I took a screen shot) it's genuinely so dark it feels like that cone of vision is drastically smaller. I probably should of posted screenshots with the original post to clear up confusion. I'll do that in the future.
Images of normal trials EDIT (this is non dredge/nightfall what my trials normally look like for reference on different maps):
Me rifting for a fashionable spirit.
Nemesis may of been mad I made him kill one of his zombies he-he
This is what happens when you get 2 other random sables and a chucky… This was solo queue by the way haha.
I felt like I was on top of the world in this one.
Trickster unaware I was behind him 🤣 selfie After this I got to choose my mori spot 😏 Died fashionably haha. Lowkey didn't see the Nicolas Cage in the background but now that I see him it actually looks cool.
Overall basically this is how my game generally looks. I wish I started taking screenshots sooner but sometimes you just can't cause chase. Although hope you found some humour in the screenshots and that they help you see where I am coming from.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794993#Comment_3794993
Well I can understand you, but running into things and having a worse vision is honestly the whole point of this ability. Shure you get some other advantages like faster tp, but I mainly play him for the darkness.
About it making the maps darker, it does not. Nightfall only reduce how far you can look and doesn‘t make anything darker even tho the black wall looks like it.
Again going in circles. Mate agree to disagree. Simple and done. Move on. Cause this will never go anywhere. It's a literal bloody round about. Already covered and I already pointed out my counter argument to what you've said a few other times.
Most complaints around Nightfall is the screen coverage and how hard it can be to see. Not saying it's the worst thing ever but it's clearly annoying to enough people that it's the number one complaint I've seen on nearly every god damn post/forum about Nightfall lol. Then you say well it "actually isn't" like that just somehow solves everything. Wow the best counter argument. Mate, you say Nightfall reduces how far you can look and others say they can see far. Y'all can't make a conclusive point to save your argument. Now it's not actually dark… lmao.
I've clearly stated what the purpose of this feedback was.
Mate you gotta be a troll. Cause this can't be real. No way you are actually serious lol. Of course you play him. I was wondering why are these guys so bloody defensive lol. Although it's all making perfect sense now. Enough said man lmao have fun cause you just decimated your whole argument. How? It's call bias. As a someone who plays Dredge and specifically for that Nightfall aspect. Of course you aren't going to favour someone saying something against it. If you don't understand that concept then I'm truly sorry I can't help you. 😅
EDIT* Hope this helps but mate just for the sake off puns and just to end this on a bit of fun. "Stop the chase cause you trippin over pallets, face planting into windows." 👻
POST EDIT* Funny enough I versed another Dredge and I think I have the perfect screenshots to show you why either you are using a Filter/shader whatever or your brightness is really high "or something". This is my vision during Nightfall. Spooky and really cool by design but this for 60 seconds every other minute gets tiresome. Oh and that person on hook killed themselves on purpose and then we got 3 downed cause Killer decided to slug. Also if you can notice not a single gen is done. Solo queue is totally the "same" as SWF lol. In most SWF I guarantee you would see at minimum 2-3 gens already done or almost done. What's the term they use, oh ya… "stop the cap!" Go ahead tell me this is "fine".
Side note really ironic that the first time I try out Hyperfocus I get a dredge. Just my luck lol.
