Sow
Sow
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I think we just agree to disagree.
Newbie stompy is not extended to just new players. There are plenty of casual players who enjoy the game and it stomps them too. Although we could categorise anyone who isn't fully knowledgeable a newb lol.
As for most praising Nightfall I am sure, in minority groups they do. Nearly every forum even when I search for "positive" results have complaint revolving around visibility and sometimes the engagement of Nightfall. So maybe you heard your favourite streamers praise this or friends etc… Although I am hard pressed to find the "majority" praising Nightfall. The top 20% of players is not the 'majority'.
I've played EFT then the Hardcore vets wanted it to be even harder cause they didn't find the realism as challenging anymore. Path of Exile… same thing where if you aren't a self-proclaimed masochist then you must be a casual noob. I have over 1k+ hours in that game and still I am considered a casual noob cause I don't enjoy hardcore. In PoE they wanted it to be even harder. Both got what they wanted. Although it only further isolated the top percenters from the majority of players. In fact when Nerfs were made or aspects of the game were made more difficult to suite/punish the "more knowledgeable veterans" the vast majority of the community began to suffer far more for it.
I've never agreed with designing a game around the top 10%. I've simply see it time and time again ruin a game. All for the sake of "making things more challenging". Basically Dredge is fun for you because it adds depth and challenge to your veteran level of knowledge. Although for the more casual(hundreds to thousands of hours)/newer players they basically suffer more for your ability to have a slightly more engaging match.
When I'm simply arguing maybe there is a way Dredge could be made to be more engaging and fun in Nightfall for the majority (vets included). Your arguments literally are in favour of the veteran players but I am arguing for the vets, casual and new players alike. Nearly every single god damn forum I have see or post about Nightfall(reddit for example). Literally is chill with the concept of Nightfall. No one is complaining about the theme or the concept of Dredge. It's mainly about the visibility being an issue. I am simply arguing maybe other things can be added to spicy things up and make it more fun and engaging for everyone.
I don't understand what is difficult to understand about this. I don't want to detract from your enjoyment but I don't understand why your enjoyment requires others to not have fun.
EDIT* My early post may appear altered because I wasn't done editing it prior to you responding. Plus I found my earlier post a bit toxic and maybe still could change a few things but this going in circles is getting a bit frustrating. So if something seems off just mention the difference no problem. I just don't care to go in loops mate. We clearly don't agree and that's cool but it's back and forth and it's going no where lol. My initial idea for this feedback was to simply give my ideas and maybe others would be like oh ya you know what I think this would be a cool concept. Friendly and fun ideas being exchanged. My intention wasn't to start bloody WW3 lmao.
POST EDIT* lol I want to add for some clarification. SO you don't think I'm just thinking all KILLERS NEED NERFS! I actually think Dredge subtract Nightfall is weak and could/perhaps deserves a buff in that department. Outside of Nightfall Dredge is not hard to deal with, I can agree with others on this if they do to. I just clearly see I am not the only one who has a bit of a grippe with how the screen is affected.
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EDIT* I had an image and my explanation for why I don't like aspects of nightfall but honestly I'm to tired and don't care enough to argue about opinions. So this is my final part to this redundant back and forth.
If you find the experience to be fine; which in no way did anyone say it was fun or engaging, right. Nobody said it was fun or engaging gameplay… Just I think it's fine so ya.
This feedback/discussion was about how I think Nightfall could be made more engaging and fun. You don't agree with it cool; move on. It's not a statement, it's an opinion. No need to get all upset/defensive like I've commit a sin against you.
I've mentioned others find aspects of Nightfall not fun. I mention ADHD once and all of a sudden… BHVR isn't changing just for you kind of garbage commentary. Mate It's clear all you people want is to be internet trolls or you love to feed of redundant banter.
My brightness is fine. Although if I turn it up then everything blends and becomes over saturated. Again this isn't a help me discussion. I'm not looking for your help or care if you are "fine" with Nightfall. Rather it was to see if others had cool and engaging ideas that would make versing Dredge(Nightfall) more fun.
It's like having chocolate cake without the icing on top. It's technically still edible and fine. Although feels like something, Oh I don't know, maybe just maybe icing could make it taste way better. Then there is that person in the background who says… I think it's fine just the way it is… no need for icing. Like, cool bruh happy for ya! Now back to the topic at hand. What kind of icing can we put to make the cake taste better. Not every flavour is loved by someone. Hence I thought of many OR's to see what others might like or wish to alter and improve upon.
Great quote I think is: "If you have nothing good to contribute to the conversation, just don't say anything." If you have nothing to add towards the idea of making Dredge more enjoyable to verse. Specifically the Nightfall aspect. Then just move on mate. Nothing to see here.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794964#Comment_3794964
Both. When I know he is chasing I do gens otherwise I hide and when he chases me it is manageable even tho it can be tricky. He still glows in nightfall as long as that doesn‘t change, there ain’t really a problem for me. But it would be funny if he wouldn‘t glow.
I do appreciate him glowing and I do my best in those trials but after the 3rd nightfall my eyes just say screw it. My ADHD brain legitimately has a limit when dealing with Nightfall. After a few times my brain just shuts off and I zone out while running into things lol.
I like the theme I really do but the narrow vision and how dark every thing is, makes focusing a chore. I don't find it fun feeling like I gotta shove my face to my monitor to see anything. Seriously if Nightfall was reduced 30% of it's screen coverage. I wouldn't even care about the timer. It's genuinely just how dark the screen gets. Even when I look to see if others are having issues with this. It's the same as me. The theme itself is not bad but the screen part is just annoying after awhile.
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@Langweilig said:
I don‘t have any problems with nightfall and I do not really like your suggestions.
You don't have any problems dealing/surviving with nightfall or you don't have any problems how it's designed? Just curious.
EDIT: Also it's cool if you don't like my ideas they are your opinions after all mate. Although I fail to see how you not liking my ideas contributes to the discussion other than to simply throw your two cents in to be heard lol.
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Most people's response to Nightfall is to hide though. Majority of players immediately get off gens and even if I do gens I just have a really bad luck of getting specifically targeted by the Killer. Being on second hook during Nightfall with no safe lockers doesn't exactly scream do gens lol.
Plus, it's a bit humorous/frustrating but I often see the survivors locking every locker they come across at the very start of a trial. Instead of saving the more important ones for later. By the time you are on the 2-3 Nightfall many lockers are just toast with no locks.
Just find it funny how people defend Killers so adamantly. Yes Killers always have the advantage as they should but as of late their advantages have been designed too much around removing any form of counter play for survivors. His theme being to reduce visibility isn't a great explanation.
Why does Skull Merchant do what she does… cause that's her theme. You have zero counter argument to why Nightfall is annoying to deal with and why I see many survivors killing themselves on hook or straight up DC. Majority of complaints I read are not hating on the theme but hating on how much of the screen is covered.
You telling me if BHVR reduced how much of the screen was covered in darkness by 30-50% less. Even reducing the time Nightfall is down to 30-45 seconds… You seriously telling me that wouldn't be a fair change? I am having a tough time understanding how you are defending Nightfall and how much of the screen is being taken up. I really don't get what is your counter-argument that says Nightfall is actually great the way it is. All I see is it's the theme and just do lockers. What does that have to do with the glaucoma simulator spawned on my screen for 60 seconds? Great I did a gen and let's hope when I'm chased I don't… Oh ya I ran into a wall cause I can't see anything. clapping WOO this is thrilling gameplay mechanics! I'm sorry most of us who like to "not" have are screens go night-mode… simply don't understand the concept of fun. We are just Killer-buzzkills.
It's a cool theme to darken the vision. I like the concept but I hate the application and it's clear I'm not the only one fed up with this.
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@Ohyakno said:
Please let killers just have unique stuff. I understand "solo bad" but nightfall doesn't affect it any more than grouped players. You can still see auras. Run ultra meta perk Windows of Opportunity and you won't have any problems with it.
No one is saying to get rid of it. I like Nightfall in concept but the lack of vision genuinely is tiresome and hurts the eyes after awhile. Acting like I just bannished Killers from having unique abilities lol. edit: added in after… I love the spookiness of Nightfall but seriously after awhile my eyes just give up trying to focus.
Secondly, ya generally speak SWF will always have an advantage. SWF have communication and that can make the world of difference. So it does affect solo players differently. As for WoO… not everyone runs meta perks. I enjoy trying new perks and making my own custom builds instead of worrying about meta. Not every build has room for WoO but sometimes I run it for looping/chase idea builds.
Limiting the options to… You must run WoO is not a good argument and only furthers the reason why it's unfortunate certain complaints are not taken more seriously.
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Generally speaking I don't think most people hate Nightfall. Although there are plenty of complaints regarding it. Not because the concept is bad but the reduce vision is tiresome or annoying after awhile.
Your concept of how companies deal with complaints is wishful thinking. The top 10% in most games dictate nerfs/buffs. Usually only when a "content-creator(s)" complains and has a influential following with said company. Then and only then do things sometimes happen. Rarely do they actually listen to the majority of their playerbase.
Why did I post this despite the majority of players generally speaking will never have their ideas heard? Same concept as you thinking a company would actually listen to the complaint, wishful thinking. Also maybe it felt a bit therapeutic lol.
At the end of the trial you have the option to express how much fun you had. Most players who verse Dredge and experience Nightfall… I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics show*(edited grammar) the "fun-ratio" is 2 on average. Although how do the Devs determine what wasn't fun? Was it the locker teleporting??? Was it Nightfall or the anti-looping ability??? Is it the terror radius or the sound of it? Maybe the server was just laggy and wasn't fun? It's a neat feature but generally speaking it's pretty useless to solving the actual problem.
Glad you don't see an issue with Nightfall, but I do and I see others clearly are not having a good time with Nightfall. Nearly all the complaints I've seen have to do with the visual reduction. Majority of players don't have issues with Nightfall itself. Although it makes it hard to see and for some either it hurts the eyes or becomes annoying after 3+ times. I'm not saying you are a Nea main but crouching and hiding for 60 seconds is the kind of gameplay loop Nea-crouching around the map players would find "a-o-kay".
I'd rather just die in chase even if it lasts 10 seconds. Those 10 seconds are 1000x more enjoyable than sitting behind a wall waiting for 60 seconds mate.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787322#Comment_3787322
I don't know why not being able to deal with some killers should give anyone a free pass to quit the game. That just leads to more ruined games and means the player in question will never be able to get to a point where they can in fact deal with those killers.
Hook suicides shouldn't be a thing. DCs already have a penalty anyway.
I agree with you people shouldn't DC and just do your best. Even when versing Tombestone Myers I just do my best. 9/10 times I still get mori'd XD. Although it's fun to see how long I live for.
I do agree they don't deserve that free pass. Although, It doesn't change the fact that there are certain Killers or playstyles that just make the game less fun in general. We all know what it's like to play competitive games and the frustrations that come with it. There is a reason why Legion is universally hated. Sad cause I love Legions Frenzy animation and the zoom zoom lol.
I hated Chucky at first cause he is so small and it's hard to read but after several matches he is hands down one of my favourite killers to verse of all time. I absolutely love versing a chucky!
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787003#Comment_3787003
You're essentially complaining about nearly every killer on the roster lmao. Including Trapper for some reason? I don't think you actually enjoy playing Survivor.
I'm doing just fine running killers with anti-loop abilities. Do you want every killer to be pure M1 and nothing else? I don't get it.
I did say I enjoy playing both Killer and Survivor. I'm not a "survivor-main" I see the problem from both sides. I'm not complaining about every Killer. I'm just stating why survivors are probably disconnecting. That's the literal point of the discussion here. I never said I feel a hatred for anti-loopers. I am having fun and making jokes in my statement lighten up. Although I can see the frustration when people DC against a good nurse. When a Huntress with great aim, hits every hatchet I can understand why players may grow frustrated.
Essentially when solo queuing the core gameplay mechanic that survivors have to buy time or counter Killers is looping. It's a bit of RNG with teammates so not every pick up has a flashlight save. So ya, when anti-loop killers are played optimally they can end a chase quickly. I'm not hating on Killers I'm just stating what players do. If you find that "nearly every killer" falls under this genre than you are just admitting I'm right. It's clear that Killers get slightly more love than survivors. That in no way means "I am not having fun" lmao.
As for your assumptions of me not enjoying survivor… You'd be straight up lying if you told me being Tombestoned out of the game prior to the first gen being completed was "fun". I've only had this happen once to me but I've seen this a few times when versing a Myers and sometimes the players just DC. I get it it's not fun and you feel you've been robbed of a trial. I see survivors just killing themselves on hook even to avoid certain killers which makes it a 3 man team early on.
I'm glad you do fine against anti-loop Killers; Technically that makes two of us then. Although not everyone does "fine" against these types of Killers.
For the M1 comment… I don't get how me saying anti-loop equates to M1(*clarifying I mean I don't get how me specifying the issues around good anti-loop players means I want just M1 killers)? I don't get it lol. I love the majority of killers. I love versing nearly every Killer in the game. The literal only Killer I don't have fun against is Legion (boring) and Dredge. Although with Dredge it's not a hatred… I love how terrifying he is but the nightfall just hurts my eyes haha.
Please don't get offended when I state the facts. In games like these the top 10% tend to dictate how the game gets nerfed/buffed. As a result, from time to time the remaining playerbase is far more impacted than the top 10%.
*Added this after… I just want to add I don't get the M1 concept. This isn't league of legends with some abilities and an ultimate. Like oh I don't like M1 killers… Soo the alternative is M2!? There are literal Killers that just spam M2. Imagine not versing a Doctor that doesn't spam da shock every time you get near a pallet or window. I think most Pyramid head players forgot they have an M1 lmao! Mate You get M1 only Killers and M2 only Killers. Sometimes a decent balance between both like Wesker in my opinion. Just makes me laugh when people say M1 Killer cause it's like god damn there are pretty much only two buttons on the majority of Killers. I think Trickster has main event which is like an ultimate I guess.
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@SoGo said:
While all your alternate trap suggestions sound great, the fact you think that Eyrie of Crows is the most fair map against trapper is insane. Eyrie has zero good trap spots, anyone with two eyes can avoid getting caught at all.
All maps have spots without grass, just use these to walk safely. Window and pallet traps? Disarm them when you see them, it's easy.
Dark and grassy maps are the only place where Trapper has a power. On maps like Eyrie, he is a weak M1 killer.
Plus the „RNG walking simulator“ only happens if the trapper decides to leave a trap in the middle of nowhere.
I don't find it to be insane. Unless you are SWF most solo queues will not have the foreknowledge of knowing a trap is on the other side of a window mid chase. I say Eyrie of Crows is the fairest map because when I get trapped or someone is downed to traps I never feel salty. I know 110% if I get trapped mid chase it's my fault.
On maps like Lampkin Lane I can still have fun in those maps. I think like you said avoiding grassy areas is best but the map tends to be a bit more lit up. Still the game just feel long and drawn out like a Legion match. I love chases and would rather my teammates get out while I die on hook in hopes of a good chase. So when the game just slows down or becomes this hyper paranoid avoid all blades of grass at any cost lol. It just grows boring for me. I care more about the fun than escaping ya feel me :P
Although, I think the points we both make furthers the reason why Trapper deserves some love and a bit of a rework. If Trapper broke loops forcing survivors to reset those loops would put additional pressure in trials. You'd have to reset loops but also reset health states while managing gens. I also just have really bad rng with escaping traps so I personally hold a grudge against them lmao
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It doesn't help that people love playing anti-loop Killers. I wonder why, they got looped on Nemesis and said nope!
Nearly every single Myers I verse runs Tombstone. I think players enjoy the mori mechanic but when you are robbed of a match before the first gen even goes off it's not fun. I died that way. Afterwards I watched the Killer's TTV for that match playing Myers. Refusing to hook survivors when they went into lockers simply because he wanted to mori every single survivor. The guys laughing and just overall having a great time, right. The guy wasn't sweating or trying very hard, just laughing and having a good time. Goes to show how easy Killer really can be but is anything done about it, naaaaaah. Survivor loops too hard, not to be tolerated!
Trapper on swampy grassy maps is just the embodiment of a nightmare. Freddie mains could learn a thing or two here haha.
Too much of the nerfs revolve around the top 10% of players. GGG did this with PoE by nerfing loot drops by 50-80%. Why? Oh well the top players in groups were farming currency too fast!
Same thing with DBD but in my opinion they favour Killers ever so slightly. Oh, this top tier survivor or SWF gen rushing is using "meta-perks" and is great at looping/evading the Killer OR gen rushing cause hmm I don't know Killer is bloodthirsty for a single hook! Those perks need to be reworked into oblivion. Oh, this Killer is camping hooks? We'll give a tiny little radius and if the Killer stand in this tiny wittle bubble you can escape for free! Killers, "OKAY! I'm just going to stand a bit over here and watch from outside that radius he-he."
Survivors, "I've practice for many hours I got good at mind games and hugging loops. I know how to loop these areas. Alright my hard work and game knowledge is paying off!"
Killers, "Anti-loop mother-supper!"
Overall I think the game has it's fun moments but it's hard to balance games like these. My opinion, it takes skill to loop and game knowledge to counter Killers. A killer will generally always get the hit, it's just a matter of time. I think too much focus has been put on catering to Killers… As a consequence many survivors are finding the game increasingly less fun. I read the average success rate of a survivor escaping is 40% give or take; Being 4 out of 10 games they escape.
Plague, no resets… defeats the purpose of healing in the game. Legion same thing. Anti-loop Killers defeat the who point of survivors having something to fight back with. Literally the only thing a survivor has to fundamentally counter survivors across the board is windows and pallets. When you remove one or more of the basic aspects of this game. It's no longer DBD it's just who can hook or do gens faster. Removing the chase or resetting factor is simply not fun. You think people are scared of Plague or Legion. Half the people just continue to work on gens after being frenzied by Legion. It's just these long boring matches that have little interaction with the core fun of the game. So I think people just DC more nowadays cause certain matches are simply not worth it and they probably should take a break from the game to cool off.