Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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It isn't stronger than before the nerf, as long as it requires chases then it'll always be far weaker, more precisely it'll be weaker for those who need it more than the ones who don't.
Most people who used Distortion (contrary to popular belief) were newcomers/casuals/people who knew they would go down in seconds if they got found quickly, so they used Distortion to be able to do gens/go for saves in relative safety, they didn't hide all match, you don't need Distortion for that (after all, there's still threads about "Survivors hiding forever" even after Distortion was killed off, rats will just crouch edge-map and go from lockers to lockers).
Those people who used Distortion to be able to play the game a tad longer and help their team more than if they went down in less than 20 seconds now have no reliable defense against aura-reading, since Distortion now requires being in chase and almost every chases will end rather swiftly and on a hook.
Whether it's 30, 15 or 5 seconds doesn't change much; casuals/newcomers/bad loopers will get minimal value while good loopers who can make Killers drop chase semi-consistently will get far more value out of it. It's a perk to help hide that requires not hiding, they should have simply tied token recharge to gen repairs instead so people would need to do gens to avoid aura-reading (and doing gens automatically puts you in the Killer's path and helps the team).
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826354#Comment_3826354
My perspective is skewed because I've always just gone and found the killer to get in one final chase because I don't care about hatch, but I have started to track my games.
Out of fifteen matches I saw one camping/tunneling example. It was me on rpd vs an iri head huntress. 2 out at the end. It would have been 3 but I messed up and let her get an m1.
Slugged for the 4k once, vs a dark Lord. I didn't spend more than 1:30 or so on the ground.
Now previously I almost never got slugged for the 4k, contrary to popular sentiment. So I'll concede that it has increased. 0-1 is indeed an increase. My sample size is very small but congruent with official numbers on being slugged inordinately and Scott junds tunneling video and poll. Frankly I do not believe people who claim to see this stuff frequently. They won't play duos with me. They don't have evidence. It's incongruent with all the other evidence.
Finally it's pretty obvious what people screeching about slugging want: basekit unbreakable. They got basekit BT. They got anti facecamp. Now they want more. I've seen people saying they want basekit Windows as well. Suppose after they get UB that'll be the next target.
People don't want basekit Unbreakable (there's a reason why it was rejected the first time, basically the whole playerbase united in backlash against it, a rather unique event, there were 1-hour videos of people abusing the hell out of basekit Unbreakable to torment Killers and Killers slugging non-stop until bleedout in search of that 4-man/3-man slug to end the match instantly), any player with a kernel of experience and logic can see that basekit Unbreakable will create more problems than it solves.
However I do think that Survivors should have a "insta-bleedout" optional button under certain circumstances;
1: If only 2 Survivors remain.
2: If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed without perks to self-recover or on 2nd hook/caged).
3: If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
In the first two scenarios, the game is already over and literally any time spent in the game is effectively wasted, either out of spite or petty revenge is variable. The third is sadly something that happens from time to time and is legitimately only a way out to avoid useless BMing.
Giving Survivors basekit recovery isn't the way to go as it is too-easily abused by SWF and creates lose-lose situations often. However most games end in a slog and just a "go next" option should be available when it drags on. The game is meant to be played, it's not normal to regularly just tab out to do something else because you're stuck watching a 4-minute cutscene (or in case of SWF, stuck waiting on your friend to watch a 4-minute cutscene so you can play again) with no way to skip it.
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@Ohyakno said:
I like how slugging has entered the tired complaints about "camping and tunneling". The sideways push for basekit unbreakable is ridiculous.
If you really feel this way I encourage you to record your games. You'll find this stuff doesn't actually happen that often, if at all.
Camping and tunnelling (especially the latter) always were and will always be complained about. Slugging joined because the Finisher Mori system (in it's current iteration at least, there's room for mending) actively encourages slugging for the 4k to see the shiny animation (which will get worse after every new Killer/Visceral skin/eventual Mori dlc). It wouldn't even be that complicated to make the Finisher Mori system much healthier.
It was expected and predicted by many that slugging would become worse as a result so it's nothing surprising even if unfortunate.
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Making the server crash on command is a common thing cheaters can do, it's likely you managed to hook a cheater and they didn't like that, it happened to me a few times and Hens recently made a video on it.
Suspiciously-timed server crashes aren't surprising anymore.
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Well, a tidal wave of kids will temporarily inflate the playerbase, likely to levels around the RE chapters (then leave shortly after getting tilted beyond belief when they get destroyed and BMed relentlessly for being new and having no perks) and the sheer frequency of whatever FNAF Killer will show up might drive people away for a bit (add in the Finisher Mori which will make people see the FNAF mori in most games after waiting on the ground for 4 minutes so people will be sick of it in a couple days).
Then, depending on the quality of the Killer itself and if it's a health hazard or not, the situation will either stabilize or a few players might leave (temporarily or permanently). It's very likely the playerbase will temporarily massively increase but the game isn't exactly known for it's new player retention so it'll likely stabilize much faster than Wesker's chapter.
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One of two things;
Absolutely meaningless number tweaks that won't really change Freddy's situation but will make him slightly more viable (like Pig).
Or
Significant changes that makes him so unhealthy/broken that it gets reverted/nerfed into oblivion and we're basically back to square one (like Twins).
In all seriousness, in the last year none of the rework attempts amounted to anything so I have little faith. He would honestly need to be looked entirely over.
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I'm honestly just concerned about possible health hazards a fnaf Killer can bring.
Fnaf is a game which has the "horror" label only because it's 90% loud jumpscares and flashing screens, those kind of things (which will become beyond infuriating even for people without any issues after a while, imagine just getting fnaf-jumpscared but repeatedly every 1-2 minutes) can cause issues for many people.
Remember the flashing basement bug? The thing that justified a seizure warning to show up on startup? Yeah I'd rather not have a Killer that has jumpscares and flashing screens/ear-blasting noise as it's entire gimmick.
BHVR, for all their faults and issues, have a good track record when it comes to making licensed content. Even the weakest licensed Killers are lore-accurate gameplay-wise and, even if weak, are interesting and unique in their own way during gameplay. There's no way to make a fnaf Killer without basing it's power around sensory overload and epileptic seizure hazard, even if somehow they manage to not make the most visually and audibly insufferable Killer yet, there's no way that the Mori will lack the classic "death" animation jumpscare (and the horrid Finisher Mori...almost every single games someone will get their eardrums blasted...after spending 4 minutes on the ground).
I honestly don't really mind an animatronic Killer (although a possible wave of kids is unnerving) but for once, the Killer can't be too close to the source material.
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It's very amusing and nice to be proven right:
Not even a month and people are already sick of seeing a Mori animation after most games (more often than not after at least 1 person twiddling their thumbs for 4 minutes).
What was liked (or at the very least tolerated) is now despised because of the Finisher Mori system and how it was implemented.
I knew it was a matter of time, I underestimated how quickly though, I thought it would take at least 1-2 months for threads like this one to show up XD
I do agree though, a "press to skip" button would be nice. Most people just want to go next and they often have been watching a 4-minute cutscene already, it's not like it will be detrimental to anyone, it's not even like it would prevent the Killer from watching his own Mori.
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Myself and others predicted it when the Finisher Mori system was announced;
Slugging for the 4k will get worse since the system encourages it.
People will start to despise Mori animations instead of liking (or at least tolerating) them due to how common they will be in mid-low MMR.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823597#Comment_3823597
That has been established nowhere, only by the community.
They could just, ya know, balance her well.
It's very tricky to make SM's power balanced yet useful and engaging since the very core of her power (puts a stationary drone anywhere that creates a large danger zone) is made to zone and create lose-lose situations/force to hold W, which is boring and has effectively no real counterplay outside of a full SWF and "just hold w".
While it hasn't been "officially" said, during a stream one of the devs wrote in chat (and a Reddit post) that SM's changes were just until her rework in 2025 and that they were working on it. It implies that the severity of the nerfs was intentional, a band-aid of sorts, until her rework. And honestly it's understandable even if it's not good.
While her exceptionally high killrate is part of the reason why she got nuked (she was so much worse in PTB, borderline M1 Killer) everyone knows it's more of why she has a high killrate and how unhealthy she was, the game was almost unplayable since almost every games someone would instantly give up (even more than normal) and would further inflate her killrate which messed up any sort of accurate stats.
The thing that worries me with this is that this sets a precedent: if you want something gone from the game, give up/dc enough times and eventually it's gonna get destroyed, no need to look for a healthy solution, just refuse to play and it'll go away eventually.
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It's already been established that this "nerf" is just a way to "clip her wings" without actually killswitching her until her 2025 rework.
By effectively removing SM from the game, the complaints also go away (for example, who complains about Freddy now?) which will make the feedback section lighter instantly XD
When she gets her next rework, which will likely include substantial buffs, we'll see where she truly stands and if 3rd time's the charm.
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@FeminineSlime said:
I have only recently come back for the event and yeah. I am pretty good at stealth overall which I know is a sin in this community, but just today I've had five matches of about fifteen that ended with one survivor on the ground and the killer trying and failing to find me for four minutes. It's got to the point now that I just let myself die to spare the other survivor but it's really not fun to have to give up when I could otherwise win just for the sake of not aggravating someone on the ground. Slugging for the bore-k was already a meme so why have we incentivized it?
The only logical theory is that BHVR wants to sell Mori animations later and they needed the Finisher Mori system to help justify those purchases.
It's a shame the system didn't go through several (not just 2) PTBs to see how the playerbase's playstyle changes and it's feedback.
It also would be pretty easy to make the system stay but make it healthier: another thread explored the idea.
@UndeddJester said:
I reckon the slugging for 4k will tone down after a while, I think the uptick in it is primarily cause its new... I also actually like being Mori'd. I see it as a badge of honour to be the one that gets to have the cinematic finish.
However other people don't like it, and there will still be SOME uptick in 4k slugging, usually on a new killer release and new mori release...
So a thought I had while eating lunch today... What if the Finisher Mori was made an actual incentive to gamble the 4k and play for hatch?
Have Finisher Mori only unlock if and only if at the point the 3rd survivor dies, the last survivor is not in the dying state.
This would mean: -
- Mori's are a little more rare, so retain a little bit of that "being special" aura.
- Player's literally can't complain about being Mori'd, cause they were given a fair shot at escape.
- We can even look at giving Finisher Mori a bonkers BP boost to further incentivise it.
- Reduces the slug for the 4k salt, on the grounds there is a reasonable chance the killer is doing a challenge, seeking grades, or something else they need to secure the game for.
It's a shame that there's no positive to the current iteration of the Finisher Mori system from a gameplay health standpoint. Slugging for the 4k was already annoying and pretty common but it's being encouraged. Players should be rewarded for not doing it.
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@Ohyakno said:
No you haven't.
While 50% is an exaggeration, slugging for the 4k did get worse since the Finisher Mori. If it didn't then there wouldn't be so many threads about it in such a short time.
That increase will only return with a vengeance each time a new Mori animations becomes available (Visceral skin like Naughty Bear/True Form/Elk, new Killer, likely Mori shop eventually etc.).
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@BugReporterOnly said:
They said Weave will be nerfed next month (November )so I'd wait till then unless something delays it. In the meantime drop your item in a place as out of the way form everyone and it won't be that bad.
While Weave being nerfed/reworked is already set in stone, people are trying to avoid this perk being nerfed the same way as almost every nerfs in the last year;
Nerfed into uselessness.
Or
Nerfed/reworked in a way that keeps it's problematic aspects but makes it bad/very niche outside of that aspect.
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Yeah, the only problematic part of it was how strong it made camping & tunnelling and yet everything except that was nerfed.
Easy fix:
Revert all changes.
STBFL deactivates when within 16 meters from a hooked Survivor and for 5 extra seconds after unhook if the Killer is within the zone.
STBFL doesn't work upon hitting post-unhook basekit Endurance.
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@wimpy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/428782/devout-emblem-not-working-correctly
All 4 survivors must be sacrificed or killed to get iridescent DEVOUT. You only sacrificed 2 survivors, so you only got a silver emblem.
It is not that you can always get a iridescent emblem by hooking more than 9 times, but that you have to hook more than 9 times to get a iridescent emblem.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9LAKK53XAYK1/image.png
It is not a bug.If it is not a bug, then maybe BHVR should rephrase their emblem requirement description.
"Iridescent quality requires 9 or more hook actions performed in the match."
According to this, at least 9 hooks (which is at minimum 1 Survivor dead and the others on 2nd hook) would grant Iridescent quality.
Imo the description is a healthy requirement which makes acquiring Iri emblem possible even if in high MMR and/or going against SWF while playing a Killer on the weaker end of the spectrum but not a guarantee by any means.
Also, the thread is 2 weeks old and "under review", which is telling since threads that are marked as "not a bug" are usually closed swiftly, the inclusion of logs would have sped up the process even further.
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It's hilarious seeing this thread then seeing a bunch of other threads show up complaining about Mori and excessive slugging mere days later XD
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@Devil_hit11 said:
the perk combo is not a problem.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821753#Comment_3821753
soloq is not excuse for playing bad. balancing around the player playing bad leads to every killer perk being as good as styptic touch.
Bruh, try finding the item in the Swamp or in Red Forest where you can't see the ground (or if the item downright sinks in the ground if on uneven ground). We're past the point of "skill issue".
I never said that the perk should be nuked from orbit like the devs are fond of (Distortion, Ultimate Weapon, Ruin, CoB etc.), I merely said that within a certain radius (small enough that the Survivor's aura will be revealed nonetheless) the item should be highlighted white.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430131/franklin-weave
just put your item in the corner of the map and now the killer plays with 2 perks versus 16
To be fair, try coordinating that in SoloQ.
Imo all it would need is to reveal the item's aura when within a certain radius(in some maps it's basically impossible to find the item).
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Honestly I got the most value out of this perk when Survivors try to get a (useless but annoying) blind during break animation (which makes them slow and not make distance) but scream before being able to complete the blind and almost always gives me a free hit.
Even before, the info was only good on a handful of Killers (the powerhouses) and wasn't very reliable.
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814310#Comment_3814310
It's relatively the same just behind on graphical updates and chapter releases.
They have a lot more Mori's to choose from tho
Sure they have more Mori animations, they also have a Gacha system which has certain Gacha-only "platinum" skins, guaranteeing such a skin can cost around 200$ if unlucky.
Some characters in the past could be acquired slightly earlier than their official release…only in the Gacha and possibly costing more than the core game alongside most of the DLCs.
It's bad enough that the Finisher Mori system actively encourages slugging for the 4k to see the juicy animation now, it would make it so much worse by having Mori that people bought and so will sweat/slug even more to justify their purchase.
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No, this would reward people for proxy-camping, slugging the unhooker, before going right back to tunnel the now-defenseless unhooked Survivor.
It's bad enough that we got the Finisher Mori which actively encourages slugging for the 4k, we don't need a mechanic to reward camping and making tunnelling almost risk-free.
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Killing Survivors through Mori animations isn't toxic in and of itself at all, game's been around for 8+ years and outside of the time when Ebony Mori granted Mori without needing hooks I'm not sure I've ever seen/heard people hating on Mori animation so much as the last week.
However, like myself and others pointed out when the Finisher Mori was announced, the fact that a Mori will happen nearly every games (at least in mid-low MMR) is making people start to despise what was previously something unexpected and even somewhat liked (photobombs, surprise "oh sh*t" moment etc.) because it's happening non-stop and the system actively encourages slugging for the 4k in order to get the juicy animation (Which will only get so much worse when Mori animations become purchasable and people want to justify their purchase). Not to mention that it's not rare to end up in a situation where the Killer will slug the last two but won't ever hook and will merely stand on the Survivor who has more bleedout time remaining, pick them up for a second when the other dies to make sure the Hatch doesn't spawn on them, and then Mori them after having wasted the maximum amount of time possible.
I'm pretty sure this post, both through it's innate lack of logic and choice of words, is born of being tilted after getting slugged for the 4k then Moried (or having to wait on the ground so the Killer can Mori another Survivor) one too many times.
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The devs already responded to one of the many people that pointed out how ridiculous this achievement is, I believe the answer boiled down to;
"The achievement is still possible to have with the current game's content, therefore it's not getting removed/changed."
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819341#Comment_3819341
Ah crud, my bad man, didn't mean to steal xD
Attempt 2 at getting traction? 😁
It's not stealing if you didn't know, and even if you did I would be more than glad if the idea got traction in any way XD.
Let's hope you succeed where I failed XD.
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This would be very nice, a while back I even proposed this exact thing in another thread XD.
There's also the fact that it's likely BHVR is looking to sell Mori animations in the future despite the Finisher Mori being rejected in the past (there is no positive from a gameplay and health standpoint that can come from the Finisher Mori system as it is now, our suggestion could mend this) and it would make the issue skyrocket.
The Finisher Mori system enhances the problem and multiple threads on multiple media platforms are already speaking about it, and making the system healthy would greatly help, especially with the likelyhood of Mori DLC.
I honestly wouldn't mind the Finisher Mori at all if it was an incentive to not slug for the 4k instead of rewarding players for doing it, it would even give "gigachad" players (8 hooks before any kills playstyle) a reward for doing so.
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@Grigerbest said:
Remember the "Last one standing"? Yes, bring it back but ONLY for survivors in order to fight slugging for a 4k after the mori update.
Buff it with wider field of view, make the last one standing survivor be immune to aura reading, buff their healing speed by 50%.
Completely discourage killers to slug for a 4k, leaving 1 player on a floor for God knows how long.
Make it so "Last one standing" - turns off once killer killed the third survivor instead of slugging.
No even need PTB to test it. It will work perfectly to discourage killer players from slugging third survivor alive.
While the "Last Standing" mechanic has it's merits, I think that there should be a more "general" deterrent for excessive slugging and boring/unfun situations. Basekit Unbreakable isn't the answer (we all remember the dreadful PTB that tried it and the deserved almost-unanimously negative response from the community) the Killer would simply alternate between the two last Survivors, I honestly believe that this is one of the many reasons there should be an "insta-bleedout" optional button under certain conditions;
If only 2 Survivors remain.
If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed or hooked/caged).
If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
Especially since the devs apparently want to encourage slugging for the 4k with their insistance on pushing the Finisher Mori system, there should be a way to go next without having to twiddle your thumbs almost every games. It's already a bit worse than before since they added the Finisher Mori and when new Mori animations shows up (it's very possible that the Finisher Mori was pushed in order to eventually sell Mori animations) it'll get even worse since people will want to justify their purchase.
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For Pentimento to have any reliable value, you need at least one other Hex perk. That's at least half of your build dedicated to getting value out of one perk.
With how ridiculous some totem spawns can be, it already makes it's effectiveness slightly vulnerable to rng. Making the totem show it's aura would essentially remove all chances of the perk lasting more than a minute.
Killing decent perks isn't the answer, buffing useless perks in a viable but healthy state is how you encourage variety.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818398#Comment_3818398
It was nerfed because a bunch of cowards were using it to hide all match
And how nerfing Distortion fixed that issue? Players aren't now hiding all match, aren't going to the lockers, aren't using Urban Evasion in the corner?
and Survivors relentlessly complained about those few bad apples
No, seems like cheap excuse for killer mains, because honestly - which survivor main would demand nerfing the only perk that hides your aura?
Especially after introduction of Weave Attunement and Nowhere to Hide?
Yeah...you might wanna read the whole post.
I mention that this fixed nothing. Killing Distortion won't change how rats play.
Cowards who hide all match and don't do gens are a detriment to their team. Survivors don't like being in a 3v1 from the get-go and one Survivor always hiding means higher chances of tunnelling (if it wasn't rampant enough).
It's true that many Killer players didn't like Distortion, but just as many Survivor players went berserk when they died and a Distortion user survived, whether the Distortion user hid all match or did half the gens by himself didn't matter.
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It was nerfed because a bunch of cowards were using it to hide all match and Survivors relentlessly complained about those few bad apples which made the majority of people using it (most of which were newcomers/casuals that knew that they weren't that good in chase so tried to focus on gens in order to be useful) lose the only reliable defense against aura-reading.
Ironically an indirect Nurse and Huntress buff. Will just make people use gen-speed perks instead, cowards will simply spend even more time in lockers. Nothing was fixed, a perk was killed and changed in the wrong way again and the game is now even less newcomer/casual-friendly than before.
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This would be a hard-counter to Pentimento.
Imo a perk like that should be in Boon form to add some depth and uses outside of just being "anti-Pentimento";
Boon: Hope Rekindled
You can rebuild a broken Dull or Hex totem into a Boon totem. When the Killer is inside the Boon's radius, their aura is revealed. If the broken totem was a Hex totem, the radius is increased by 2/5/10 meters.
Totems can only be rebuilt once and are permanently destroyed if snuffed by the Killer.
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There's a ton of things that should be visible to your teammates.
Anti-camping bar.
Locker which has a Survivor with Head-On at the ready inside.
Icon showing that a downed Survivor has Plot Twist/Unbreakable.
Icon showing When Second Wind, Inner Strength and Deliverance are in play.
The list can go on.
However it seems that QOL for SoloQ which would help bridge the gap between SoloQ and SWF and make SoloQ less miserable is on a lower priority than nerfing perks into uselessness and releasing a metric-ton of cosmetics, 80% of which will never be used/have some kind of defect that makes them actively detrimental (weapons so massive they take half the screen, glow-in-the-dark clothes that makes hiding nigh-impossible etc.) and dozens of recolors. The last truly great QOL update we got was 6.3.0 when we got the HUD update which showed Survivor status and actions.
In all seriousness, info about the whole game is missing from SoloQ and should be worked on somehow.
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@JDecker said:
Excuse me, I'm not good at speaking English.
There have been several problems with Distortion up until now, but I think one of the most difficult things for killers to accept is that "Scratch Marks not be created for a while for survivors who have Distortion activated."
The killer player activates the Aura Detection effect to make it easier to detect survivors, for their own benefit. However, if this causes them to not only be unable to see the auras of survivors with Distortion, but also unable to see their Scratch Marks, the killer player will end up suffering a disadvantage as a result of activating the Aura Detection effect...
In other words, if the benefit of the killer activating the Aura Detection ability is neutralized by Distortion, it would be understandable, but it is psychologically difficult for players to accept that why it has a negative effect on the self.The main theme of this perk is supposed to be for survivors to hide their auras so that the killer can't see them, so I don't understand why they would continue to leave the effect of suppressing Scratch Marks.
The perk already got killed because people complained about Survivors hiding and not chasing instead of being changed in a healthy way.
Stop beating a dead perk.
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Oh the mori doesn't even grant extra BP.
But it was obvious that this change would make slugging for the 4k even worse than before, anyone with a kernel of experience could have seen that coming from a mile away.
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Is the Finisher Mori system unhealthy and incentivizes boring and unfun gameplay? Absolutely.
Would basekit Unbreakable fix that? Hell no, it would create a lot more problems than it would solve, there's a reason basically the whole playerbase rejected the devs's first attempt at pushing the Finisher Mori alongside basekit Unbreakable, it was horrible and greatly limited gameplay alongside putting Killers in tons of lose-lose situations, even more so against SWF teams.
The Finisher Mori system is likely there to justify a future monetization of Mori animations, as there is literally no positives about it from a gameplay standpoint. All it does is encourage players to sweat and slug people for 4 minutes in order to see that juicy animation and it'll only get worse if/when new Mori animations get sold and people want to justify their purchase.
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While nice to hear that it'll be shorter, it still doesn't change the fact that not only are there less tokens but also that the majority of the playerbase will end up on a hook after nearly every chases anyway(losing chase for a second because of stun, LOS or distance doesn't count) unless someone else takes chase or the Killer decides that another target is easier (likely by going back to a possible hooked/recently unhooked Survivor or hearing an injured Survivor mid-chase) which basically means that outside of good players that can actually make the Killer drop chase reliably the perk will have (a maximum) of 6 uses throughout the whole trial.
Reducing the ability to hide and avoid chase is merely making the experience worse for newcomers/casual players, especially when/if they don't have friends to play with. If the goal is to prevent players from hiding the entire match then just tying token recharge to gen repair (and increasing the requirement to like 40-45 sec spent on a gen per token, so a full gen would replenish 2 tokens if uninterrupted) would be perfect since it would encourage people to contribute to keep their aura block and useless Survivors would eventually lose their protection, to get it back they would need to put themselves in the Killer's path by doing gens.
Most people can't loop and definitely can't escape chase reliably but anyone can repair gens. Not everybody wants to engage in frequent chases because they know they'll go down quickly (and probably get shunned in the post-game chat out of spite) and that a sneaky gen-doer is way more useful than a dead teammate. With Distortion requiring chases (which means getting hooked rather quickly in most cases) it just kills the perk for players that use it normally but doesn't really change the core issue of useless players hiding all match, they'll just spend more time in lockers than before and be just as useless if not even more.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Someone wants old Dead Hard, but better.
The perk is already good enough imo.A slightly faster Dramaturgy wouldn't make you able to run over Trapper's traps or even bypass some platforms.
A slightly faster Dramaturgy wouldn't make you able to run through the Killer to ignore bodyblocks.
A slightly faster Dramaturgy wouldn't make you invulnerable for a second.
A slightly faster Dramaturgy can still screw you over by making you exposed or giving your position away by screaming.
A slightly faster Dramaturgy wouldn't be instant and would still require using it before being in imminent danger due to it's startup.
Dramaturgy doesn't really need a buff, it's a meme perk like every aspects of the Nick Cage chapter, but even hyper-buffed it would never be on the level of old DH.
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@BlackRabies said:
In that situation it's a lost game for you nothing you can do either die on hook or by mori. This version is just the yellow mori basekit the other version were far worse and DID encourage slugging for that 4K. This version the killer gets nothing other than just a mori animation.
The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
It's possible BHVR want to monetize additional Mori animations and want to make Mori animations more common to justify the purchase, however it would only make problems we already have even worse.
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Yeah...Distortion is dead.
The average player will go down in chase (according to stats BHVR released a few month back indicating average chase time per trial) in around 1 minute (and that's only if we're talking about a pure M1 chase without traps or insta-downs). Nearly every chases will end on a hook unless something or someone gets in the way.
This especially is bad for players that aren't very good in chase/newcomers since that perk essentially is now useable for very good players that can loop a Killer for ages but nearly useless for newcomers/casuals, which is weird because good players don't need to hide and are usually looping the Killer for their team.
All this change does is it will make those rat players hide in lockers more and bring entire builds around stealth instead of minimaly helping since rats didn't go into chase anyway and aren't good enough in chase to get much use out of the perk. Another change that makes a perk worthless and doesn't fix the core issue.
If the intent was truly to make rats unable to hide the whole match while not helping, the perk should have been tied to gen repair instead so that aura blocking would be reliant on helping yoour team. All this does is make another non-gen-speed perk too bad to use over a gen-speed perk or Sprint Burst/Lithe.
It's better than a single-use thing, still not worth bringing unless you can confidently run the Killer for a while and manage to escape chase on the regular.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3813784#Comment_3813784
That sounds like a bug, I'd report that.
Someone already did, it's been "Under Review" since March.
6 months and no mention of it in any patchnote afaik, I think we can forget this getting fixed (if it's even unintended).
The funniest thing to me is that Unknown came with Unforeseen and Undone, two gen-kick perks, one of which counts as two kicks and will never be useful against anyone with a kernel of experience, just after putting an arbitrary limit on gen-regression. You can't make this up XD
Even without the regression limit, the perk would be arguably one of the worst perks in the game, it's downright a throwing perk that was DOA because of the limit.
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On top of that, Undone actually counts as 2 regression events if even a single token is used.
I tested it in a custom with a friend to confirm after seeing the spikes after 2 kicks. The additional regression counts as an extra regression event, effectively halving the kick limits.
Add any other regression perks and a gen can be blocked in record time.
Superb design.
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Making the server crash on command is actually a thing cheaters can do (I think Hens made an enlightening video on the topic recently, it's a good watch) and suspiciously-timed server crashes are commonly the work of petty cheaters.
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Possible reasons why people go next/DC;
An actual irl emergency.
Fighting an uphill fight against ridiculous odds (good Nurse, Blight).
Dealing with something unbearably boring (Skull Merchant, Basement Bubba, proxy-camping Hag etc.).
Tilted after getting out of a previously unbearable/boring game.
Tilted after going against a near-identical situation game after game (usually getting tunnelled/slugged for the 4k).
Getting downed first (due to the rampant tunnelling, getting downed first is often a sign that you'll barely play the game anyway).
Literally just salty.
Doesn't like the Killer.
Doesn't like the map.
Doesn't like the Killer's perks.
Sees a teammate with No Mither or doing an Invocation.
The first chase of the trial doesn't last at least 1.5 gens and is deemed lost.
...
Yeah I could go on but the point is that there's about a hundred reasons to DC/unalive on first hook and most of them are petty.
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They nerfed Adrenaline and removed the heal off of hook alongside nerfing the duration of the Haste boost.
Apparently it was too much even for a one-use perk that only ever worked if you survive until endgame.
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Why do you think the Finisher Mori system was pushed with minimal change despite being rejected in the past?
It's very likely that Mori DLC is coming but without the Finisher Mori system then they would sell less. Having the ability to Mori every games basekit (at the low cost of slugging for the 4k, making the game boring and wasting everyone's time) justifies the existence of additional Mori animations (and incentivizes slugging for the 4k).
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I'm sorry for all those people that hate getting slugged at the end of almost every games. The Finisher Mori is about to make it even worse.
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Now THIS is how perks should be treated: Bad/too niche perks buffed/reworked to be useful without being utterly busted, which encourages variety instead of reducing it.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812254#Comment_3812254
This "too much aura reading" thing annoys me so much. You're only ever going to see BBQ, nowhere to hide and lethal. Nobody's running awakened awareness or shattered hope. It's like saying survivors have so many gen rush perks and they're so problematic and pointing at stake out and fast track like they're huge issues instead of niche, mediocre perks. Survivors have so many ways of losing the killer! It's unfair! While gesturing at parental guidance like anyone runs it.
Even bad survivors are gonna be able to get tokens back. If you hold w after getting hit that's half a token. If you have the brain to vault something at the end of that sprint you've probably gotten your token. Like what did these people do before tokens regenerated? Did they collapse and die when the killer saw their aura?
Several things;
When people say "too much aura-reading" it means that now almost any action has the potential to reveal your aura, down to simply escaping chase. Some of the stronger Killers, when wielded by decent players, thrive on aura-reading almost just as much as gen slowdown (Nurse, Huntress for cross-map or preemptive shots, Blight, Billy, Pyramid Head in loops etc.) and Distortion was arguably the only tool to reliably avoid getting hit by absurd nigh-unavoidable things (getting hit through walls by PH and Nurse with accuracy despite being out of LOS due to aura-read, Blight and Billy not wasting a single second before dashing at Mach 4 toward you etc.)
"Like what did these people do before tokens regenerated? Did they collapse and die when the killer saw their aura?"
While not a game-breaking thing, we have to remember that some Killers were weaker back then and most of the more popular/stronger aura-reading perks like Lethal & NTH weren't even a thing. Also, Distortion was a trash perk without token regen and was rightfully buffed to make it decent at hiding against one or two aura perks (although a full aura build, Gearhead, or being a stealth Killer would just delete the perk) but doesn't grant much more than that.
The issue with the perk was that some people, not the majority, was using it to be rats and were useless to their team. Weakening the perk to this degree and forcing interaction with the Killer wasn't the answer, why would a stealth perk require to actively seek the Killer? Newcomers/casuals can't afford to get chased often (and almost certainly getting hooked afterwards in short order) simply to block aura twice (and that's assuming the Killer brought aura perks and isn't a stealth Killer which turns the perk into a dead perk slot), the risk is simply too high for the (potential) reward for people that aren't very good in chase. Sure good players that can either lose chase and/or loop for long enough that the Killer drops chase will get some uses, but that's not the majority nor the ones that need it.
Tying the perk to gen repair would fix the problems this perk can cause by making rats unable to use it unless they contribute (and put themselves in the Killer's patrol path in the process) without making chase the only way to get a conditional and limited stealth back. It would also mitigate endgame stalemate since Survivors would need to stop hiding to get back their aura protection.
Newcomers/casuals would keep their stealth perk and make the experience less frustrating (after all, according to stats from BHVR themselves a few months ago, the average chase time in an entire match is around 1 minute, the equivalent of a whopping 2 tokens recharged in a whole trial, they might not even be used depending on the perks & Killer) but rats can no longer hide unless they do gens (which is also good for the Survivor team as a whole), win-win.
I just hate seeing non-gen-speed perk just get thrown away and promptly replaced by a gen-speed perk or an exhaustion perk, lowering variety. Variety is the lifeblood of DBD and what sets it truly apart from other assyms that tried to compete with it. Bad/too niche perks should be buffed/reworked to be desirable, good perks shouldn't be nerfed into a state of unviability (although broken stuff like old MFT or old Ruin Undying need to be toned downed though).
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Yeah it's been months and it's still a thing. The funniest thing is that this isn't the first time this bug appeared, however it was fixed in an update for a while but came back later.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
Well looks like we got what we asked for, good change.
Not really, the whole thing is unhealthy and offerings or not it doesn't change the fact that you can get a mori basekit by getting a 4k and the best way to get a 4k is by slugging the 3rd until you get the last Survivor.
People will hate those animations after a while of getting slugged even more than before and this whole system will have just pissed off people.
It's obvious that paid Mori animations are coming to the game (why else would they push a system to make Mori animations more common?) and people will slug even more to justify their purchase.