Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812209#Comment_3812209
No, it was trashing it with one token. Now it has a pretty reasonable requirement that encourages people to engage with the killer.
Also you've gotta ditch the us vs them stuff or thinking the devs favor a particular side. It's emotional nonsense.
It's still trash for the vast majority of people.
It's one thing to make a perk require contributing and helping teammates (doing gens, healing etc.) but being forced to spend time in chase automatically makes the perk worthless for most of the playerbase.
Sure good players can effortlessly do chases that last 1+ minutes perkless (at least against most of the Killer cast), however those people don't really need it in the first place and are usually using it almost more as info than actual stealth.
Newcomers/casual players now are forced to get chased if they don't want to be seen through walls, inevitably getting downed and hooked (and likely tunnelled) rather quickly and making the early experience worse since, let's face it, there's so much aura-reading that finding Survivors will never be an issue unless they creep around in lockers or are using certain perks, and that's what's going to happen: the rats that hid and didn't help while using Distortion will simply use lockers more and help even less.
Not everybody can loop good, and no perks should require getting chased for a while for the chance of getting value (as there's no guarantee that the Killer even brings an aura perk in the first place) but everyone can contribute to the team by doing gens. Making gens grant tokens would have fixed the issue of rats without killing the perk for those that used it but actually played the game. The result will merely be that rats are now in lockers more and that other people will replace Distortion by a gen-speed perk or an exhaustion perk (likely SB or Lithe) to replace the lack of stealth by easier chases or genrush potential.
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@OrangeBear said:
I think she still seems quite weak but the changes to live are much appreciated so she wont be absolute agony to play as if you needed to for a challenge or something.
Not really interested in playing her much until her rework though. People will probably still hate her causing DCs.Honestly, the only way that people won't just go next when against her are either her being so weak that she's no threat or being completely reworked from the ground up. Her PTB changes would have been super overkill but would have likely vastly reduced the amount of people giving up against her XD
Pressing one button and denying a massive zone, and being able to do so 6 times, and being able to move those traps from across the map in an instant, will never be fun to go against (and arguably pretty boring to play as).
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812162#Comment_3812162
Well not as much. If someone wants a mori they can just bring an offering. So unlike PTB you aren't forced to get a 4k if you want a mori. It was that or rancor and devour hope which are highly conditional.
I dont think the system is ideal but i see it as quality of life for myself personally. I wouldn't slug for 4k for it but it would make the match end quicker and end more satisfying by mori'ing instead of hooking. Maybe others think differently i guess we'll have to wait and see.It won't.
Do you remember the horrid Basekit Ubreakable/Finisher Mori PTB which was the first attempt from the devs at pushing the Finisher Mori system? Slugging was unbearably common and so much worse EVEN IF PEOPLE COULD GET UP because they wanted that animation.
Now, Mori animations are fairly rare and people usually like them, or at least don't hate them. When they start to happen in most games, usually after one person got slugged for 4 minutes, and it's only purpose is "let me rub my victory in your face more with this cutscene" then people will start to hate them and will try to hide even more when a 2v1 happens to not be the Mori receiver.
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@TinyTenzin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/428836/my-thoughts-on-the-updated-mori-change
You see mori only 1 time as survivor, when you get sacrificed. If you watch on playback when seeing other moris play, this is all on you. If you play Swf and you have to wait anyway, then just dont look at it.
it good thing mori offerings dont get robbed from players.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812162#Comment_3812162
at start maybe yes, but as you say "sick" or i will say "tired", people will have see all of them enough and will not even tryhard so mutch for them, many people sweat for 4k alredy. Offerings dont make diffrence
Why do you think the devs want to push the Finisher Mori system (make Mori animations happen in most games especially in low MMR) so much despite it being rejected (and was rejected before when alongside the dreadful Basekit Unbreakable PTB, which caused unseen amount of slugging and briefly united the whole playerbase)?
It's very likely that, like the gacha-driven mobile version, the devs want to introduce Mori DLC at some point. People will want to justify that purchase.
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Even with offerings remaining, the Finisher Mori system as a whole encourages slugging for the 4k, BP bonus or not.
Those that hate getting slugged for 4 minutes, prepare yourselves it's about to get even more common and people will get sick of Mori animations.
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Yeah...Distortion is dead.
The vast majority of players will go down in chase in less than 1 minute (and that's only if we're talking about a pure M1 chase without traps or insta-downs). Nearly every chases will end on a hook unless something or someone gets in the way.
This especially is bad for players that aren't very good in chase/newcomers since that perk essentially is now useable for very good players that can loop a Killer for ages but nearly useless for newcomers/casuals, which is weird because good players don't need to hide.
All this change does is it will make those people hide in lockers more and bring entire builds around stealth instead of minimaly helping since rats didn't go into chase anyway and aren't good enough in chase to get much use out of the perk. Another change that makes a perk worthless and doesn't fix the core issue.
If the intent was truly to make rats unable to hide the whole match while not helping, the perk should have been tied to gen repair instead so that aura blocking would be reliant on helping yoour team. All this does is make another non-gen-speed perk too bad to use over a gen-speed perk or Sprint Burst/Lithe.
It's better than a single-use thing, still not worth bringing unless you can confidently run the Killer for a while and manage to escape chase on the regular.
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Damn, now even the Devout Emblem is broken? I already knew that Gatekeeper was broken and has been for months but this is getting out of hand.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811480#Comment_3811480
If killers didn't already slug for the 4K you might have a point, but since they do, I really don't think its going to be an issue, and I say that as both a Pig Main and a Claire main.
Even so, seeing a Mori nearly every games that are lost AND likely after someone being slugged is just gonna make people despise those animations.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810986#Comment_3810986
Well, with the changes they are making, I think that will be less of a problem, as you can still do a Mori or not and even do multiple Mori if you wish. So while the initial few days or weeks might be an issue, once the new system is gotten used to, it will settle back into the usual routine of killers slugging for the 4K, regardless of whether they get a Mori or not.
For many of us, the issue we had with the Finisher Mori (this time and even more so before) was that it wasn't optional and that there was no way to Mori during a match with other survivors still alive, meaning no "photobombing" which many find fun, especially Ghostface mains. Now that the offerings (aside from Cypress) and the perks will remain unchanged, those of us for whom that was the issue are happy with the changes.
I know for me the issue was never the FInisher Mori itself, it was that it was the only Mori available in the match and not optional.And what happens when, since it's very likely that it's the main reason why the Finisher Mori is being pushed (even after being rejected once before) in the first place, new shiny Mori DLC comes out? How much slugging will happen when people want to justify their purchase?
Also, currently, Mori animations are liked, or at least not disliked, even by most Survivors since it's not common and usually either requires a perk or offering (or certain Killers). Now, especially outside of high-MMR, the majority of games will end in a Mori (likely attained after someone getting slugged for 4 minutes, not to mention toxic players that will wait until the last second before using the Finisher Mori on the last Survivor out of spite) and people will start to hate those animations and will likely start seeing it as a form of BM (like "let me rub my complete victory in your face with this cutscene").
It's better than it being forced and the only source of Mori for sure, but it's still going to encourage boring playstyles for the sake of the Mori animation and people will start to despise them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
How can you call the mode survivor-sided when Survivors had 400% BP-Incentive (!!) and yet Killer queues were super long? They had to do something, since 2v8 was killing the queues, 400% was not enough to make enough Survivors play in the mode, yet it was enough to also ruin the queues for 1v4.
And in general it is good that Survivors have more in this mode than just doing Generators. The first version basically removed all Survivor-gameplay aside from Chases (which can easily be lost due to Killers teaming up) and doing Gens.
To be fair, the reason why the queues were so long wasn't because it was Killer-sided per-say, it was because gameplay for Survivors was barely changed and even dumbed down (no more saves and totems or perks, only gens) while Killers not only got to play with their friends (which is something that was asked since almost day 1) but had a much more fast-paced game than before. There was basically no incentive to play Survivor and the Killer queues were overwhelmingly bigger and slower than Survivor queues (which is why there was no Killer-only challenge in the 2nd chapter of the 2v8 tome and Survivors had a massive BP incentive that changed almost nothing).
Why play Survivor when the gameplay is almost the same, just with twice as many teammates and less varied options, when you can have an almost entirely new experience when playing Killer with a friend?
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Yeah…a dev confirming that Cypress was being retired and that Finisher Mori was still going through almost unchanged despite so many people rejecting it (twice I might add since it was also rejected when they first tried to do it alongside the dreadful basekit Unbreakable) just killed any interest I had for the whole stream.
Slugging for the 4k is already an issue that makes most endgames a chore to endure, giving an incentive to slug for the 4k is just going to make it worse and make basically every single game end in a slugfest which will make people hate Mori animations.
With Distortion in the trash bin and effectively useless for most of the playerbase (the vast majority of chases end on a hook unless something or someone gets in the way, especially for newcomers/casuals) it will also make people previously using Distortion to hide while minimally helping (the vast minority of Distortion users but unfortunately people remember the bad apples much more than the good ones) to hide in lockers more to replace it and make them even more useless than they were before. If BHVR wanted to make Distortion useless to rats & endgame stalemates without killing the perk for everyone then token recharge simply should have been tied to gen repairs instead of being in the Terror Radius, rats can't endlessly hide unless they contribute and expose themselves in the process.
Cosmetics are cool though!
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Honestly, a "single player mode" like you described would effectively cement DBD's immortality even more than licenses could ever hope to.
The reason why new player retention isn't good and people don't stick around is because the game is insanely unfriendly to newcomers and casual players not only in it's mechanics but also in it's community (not to mention the rather impressive grind required to get perks that help alleviate the lack of experience). With how complex the game has gotten, by the time you understand how the game works and manage to get a solid grasp on most aspects, you'll have been getting slurs and mockery thrown at you constantly because of inexperience or simply for not bringing optimal perks or playing in an suboptimal way.
A single player mode would essentially make newcomers be able to play/practice in a healthy and predictable environment before, if they so chose, playing against other people. When people start playing with other people they would be able to contribute and would have a much better (even if there will always be bad apples and salty players) experience with the community.
Not to mention if someone gets targeted by hackers and prevented from playing the game, or there is a problem with their internet they can simply jump on offline solo mode.
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In my opinion, current Kindred should be partially basekit and Kindred itself should be a tad stronger, hear me out;
When someone is hooked, all Survivors can see other Survivors (NOT the Killer's aura) basekit, this would help bridge the gap between SWF and SoloQ (something that should be aimed for and that the devs have said were something they aim to do) by not mistakenly leaving the Survivor to die (if they see a Survivor letting go of a gen on the HUD but not in chase, it's easy to mistakenly assume they are going for the save without some form of info) or going for a two-man save that is not needed.
Kindred itself would keep it's current effect BUT would get a buff and a partial revert, the aura-reading would stay and would show through the bubble. To make the perk truly be something to help give info and something to help rescues (as well as deter camping to some extent) as long as the Killer's aura is revealed by Kindred all Survivors would gain a moderate boost in healing speed, nothing too insane (the objective is to help coordinating saves, not weaponizing someone getting hooked in the form of gen-speed, there's too much gen speed perks already. The healing boost would make resetting for the save faster if the Killer stays too close).
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Honestly, the system is deeply flawed and essentially makes several perks (and perk combos) unusable against decent Survivors.
Due to the generator spawn still being prone to spawning gens unreasonably close to each other, and the ever-shrinking maps that make those situations more common, I honestly believe that the system should only kick-in at 2 gens remaining.
3-gen stalemates had to go and were obnoxious, but limiting regression as a whole wasn't the answer, especially for weaker/slower/M1 Killers. By making the Anti-3-gen system only activate at 2 gens remaining (4 gens on the map) it would remove endless 3-gen and take into account possible 4-gen setups made by poor map-generation.
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@Sika21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807909#Comment_3807909
I'm sorry, how exactly can you say you need more log files from pc players? In this thread alone you have evidence of this bug happening going back two whole months, how is all of that not enough?
I'm honestly almost believing this is a case of "if it's ignored long enough then people will forget about it/another problem will pop up and overshadow it".
Console players can't provide logs and they make up most of the playerbase. Asking for a ton of logs (and going through the hassle of sending them) is going to be a slow and annoying process that most people don't want to go through, even less so more than once.
This is not the only thread about this issue, although this one is the biggest by far, and some people posted a few logs over there too.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808132#Comment_3808132
Doing a protest against a game that is entirely killer-sided is so typical for this killer-biased community with the most toxic people ever to be gathered in any game. But the saddest thign is that devs even encourage this behaviour instead of having a fine game.
Can't really say you're entirely wrong.
The Finisher Mori idea as a whole promotes slugging for the 4k and the devs implemented it (will in the next update, although slightly different according to a dev) despite countless people rejecting the idea and explaining why it's unhealthy.
However the community isn't blatantly on one "side". Both sides constantly bicker over countless things and the balance of the game changes constantly also.
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Honestly simply tying token recharge to gen progress would fix the issue without killing the perk.
People need to contribute (and put themselves in the Killer's patrol path) if they want to keep their stealth.
Rats can't simply hide in lockers to keep regaining tokens and can't hide forever in endgame since doing gens will inevitably expose them.
Basically every perk that was thrown in the trash could have had a simple change to keep it useable but no longer obnoxious.
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Honestly I think that Chaos Shuffle shouldn't be a mode.
I think it should straight up be a setting you can toggle whenever you want.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797102#Comment_3797102
As an active distortion user (mainly to use for information and not the hiding), I definitely look forward to this change. However, I did expect them to make the token recharging only happen during chases, and not a 1 token system that recharges after a chase ends.
It doesn't recharge after a chase ends.
It only recharges when starting a chase. Which makes it a direct counter to new Predator and I'm All Ears but almost entirely worthless outside of chase.
While people ratting around and not helping was an issue, tying Distortion to starting chases will merely throw it into the trash bin like most perks after a nerf and not fix the issue. People will still rat and be useless, only difference is that they'll stay in lockers more instead of stealthing around and risking the Killer stumbling upon them.
For the vast majority of the playerbase, basically every chases will end with them on a hook. Distortion will have 3 uses max for most players while better loopers might get more uses. Yet another perk that people will just replace with a gen-speed perk and lower perk variety again.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807569#Comment_3807569
Why? Typically when a survivor has escaped chase it's because you hit them and they gained distance. You know where they're going. How is that worth a perk slot?
To be fair, seeing exactly where the Survivor is when breaking chase (which can be accomplished by simply walking for a moment after breaking LOS, it's how good loopers can greatly delay blocking the window of shack against M1 Killers without Bamboozle by walking a moment to reset chase after turning the corner) is insanely valuable on certain Killers and can guarantee hits in certain situations if the Survivor doesn't leave the loop.
Nurse can get a guaranteed hit by knowing exactly where you are, Pyramid Head can do the same, Knight will know exactly where to put his guard to guarantee a Hunt. Any kind of range Killer can pre-emptively line up a shot since they know when the Survivor will cross the corner. Fast Killers know exactly if/when the Survivor ditches the loop and will know exactly where to dash to cut them off etc. The only Killers that don't really benefit that much are M1/low-mobility Killers (Pig, Ghosty, Nemesis to some extent, Trapper etc.) but it can still be useful for knowing when and where the Survivor is going after breaking LOS and waste less time.
It's not a meta perk by any means but it's not trash either and can be very strong with certain Killers. And while nuked Distortion can protect you from this, the Survivor will be left completely vulnerable to whatever other aura perk the Killer has, making it essentially worthless for hiding.
Tying gen progress to token recharge would remove Survivors ratting around and being useless (the only problematic part about it is player-dependent) while still making the perk accomplish it's purpose if the Survivor actually contributes and isn't just hiding all game.
Edit after Dev update: Welp, looks like Distortion is going in the trash bin. Getting token back in chase makes the perk almost worthless for newcomers/casuals that aren't good in chase (ya know, the ones who used it the most) but still decent on cracked loopers. Even on the other side it's now ######### because it's a perk that will be much more effective against weaker/slower/M1 Killers than the powerhouses since their chases tend to be longer. Yet another perk that got nuked because people whined. If it had been tied to gen repair it would have been perfect but I guess they needed to make people shut up somehow.
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Yeah it's been like that for a while, not even in the known issues list.
That bug actually happened before and was fixed...for a few updates until it returned.
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Slugging for the 4k will indeed get worse if the Finisher Mori system sees the light of day as it is, anyone who played more than a dozen Survivor pub games understands that (which is why the majority are rejecting this 2nd attempt from the devs to implement this). In an ideal scenario the Finisher Mori would never exist.
However, I have a possible idea to keep Finisher Mori BUT make it healthier;
What if you can Mori the last Survivor by your hand without needing a perk/offering BUT can only do so if said Survivor was downed AFTER hatch spawned (which means either a 3k was already achieved or everybody else got out). A Mori made in this fashion would offer a massive BP boost (further enhanced by Mori offerings which would keep their old effect alongside giving an incrementally higher BP bonus depending on rarity). If the last Survivor is slugged when Hatch spawns, the Mori would become unavailable for this trial (to prevent Killers from simply slugging both and hooking one before letting the last wiggle off so they can mori them).
This would incentivize people to NOT slug for the 4k and play the match in it's entirety. This wouldn't affect those that already slugged for the 4k but would reward those that don't and take a gamble to win the Hatch race. This keeps the Finisher Mori but is also healthy for everyone.
Alternatively (and honestly it would be better) the idea of Finisher Mori as a whole should be scrapped but a way for Survivors to not have to deal with excessive slugging, an "insta-bleedout " button should be given if certain conditions are met and a Survivor is downed;
If only 2 Survivors remain.
If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed or hooked/caged).
If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
Especially since the devs apparently want to encourage slugging for the 4k with their insistance on pushing the Finisher Mori system, there should be a way to go next without having to twiddle your thumbs for 4 minutes almost every games.
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This is one of the many reasons there should be a "insta-bleedout" button after being slugged under certain conditions.
If only 2 Survivors remain.
If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed or hooked/caged).
If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
Especially since the devs apparently want to encourage slugging for the 4k with their insistance on pushing the Finisher Mori system, there should be a way to go next without having to twiddle your thumbs almost every games.
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@SoGo said:
I mean, just because an add-on is iridescent, doesn't mean it's good.
I mean, is it good? No.
Should it be good? Yes.
What's the point of a more costly and rare add-on if it's crap and barely has any impact on the match (without being broken)?
A good example of a well-designed iri add-on is Trapper's Iri Stone and Bloody Coil. They greatly enhance his power and affect his counterplay without being too strong and unfun to deal with.
On the flip-side, there are Iri add-ons that are too strong and/or unfun to deal with (see both of Myers's Iri add-ons).
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I wouldn't hold my breath for Nemesis animations.
His post-hit cooldown tentacle animation has been clipping through his arm (when tiering up) for around a year without a word and his post-M1 animations have been missing for months without acknowledgement despite several posts about it.
It can't be that hard to test it?
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This is one of the many reasons there should be a "insta-bleedout" button after being slugged under certain conditions.
If only 2 Survivors remain.
If all remaining Survivors are incapable of playing (either downed or hooked/caged).
If slugged for 2m+ (how often does anyone gets slugged for 2+ minutes unless the Killer is either slugging for the 4k, trolling, or purposefully going for a slugfest after tunnelling the first Survivor?).
Especially since the devs apparently want to encourage slugging for the 4k with their insistance on pushing the Finisher Mori system, there should be a way to go next without having to twiddle your thumbs almost every games.
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@tjt85 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5BERQ8X75IVL/eac2.png
I'm having easy anti cheat woes on PC as well. Never had any problems before Castlevania. And it takes a long time to even boot up the game now.
I'll be playing on Switch until this is sorted out, because I'm too afraid to try booting it up again incase I get perma locked out of my account.
It's telling of how broken a game is when being randomly perma-locked from your account after a bug is a legitimate concern.
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Yeah it's been months and there are a few big threads which includes videos and logs and it's still not even in the "known issues" list.
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Yeah…theres a bunch of big threads which include videos and logs and the best we got was "Under Review". It's been months and it's not even in the known issues list. Guess they were too busy gutting Distortion and encouraging slugging for the 4k with the Finisher Mori system…
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BHVR made their stance on this clear when they keep trying to push the Finisher Mori system despite almost everyone being against it and saying that hiding a Mori behind 4k will merely encourage people to slug for the 4k even more than before.
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These nerfs aren't there in an attempt to balance her. BHVR is "clipping her wings" until her upcoming rework later down the line in order to reduce complaints & near-documentaries about how Skull Merchant is horrible to play against. I recall hearing that a BHVR employee said as such in a stream and a post on Reddit.
After all, who nowadays complains about Freddy after his nerfs?
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The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
It's possible BHVR want to monetize additional Mori animations and want to make Mori animations more common to justify the purchase, however it would only make problems we already have even worse.
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@Ohyakno said:
Calm spirit does not disable doctors' power. It turns it into ersatz Whispers because you still get the score notification. Is that weaker? Sure. Is it still useful? Yes. I'm probably going to be able to figure it where a calm spirit survivor is.
My issue with distortion is not that it encourages hiding. People can hide if they want. They can play selfishly. I'm not here to police behavior and tell people they can only play one way
My issue is that it completely nullifies an entire suite of killer perks and add-ons through no fault of the killer and with no input from the survivor. Exist on the map. Congratulations, you are immune to every aura perk in the game.
I saw someone with a post tying tokens to gen progress. I like that a great deal more than forcing stealthy survivors to take chase which they may not be great at.
I do believe that it might be my post XD
But yes, tying token recharge to gen progress would fix the real issue with the perk: people hiding forever without contributing.
Just like STBFL was nerfed the wrong way and didn't fix it's single problematic aspect, if Distortion isn't handled correctly, it will lead to two things;
1: Rats will still play like rats but will merely stay in lockers 45% more and/or will bring Shadow Step and stay in it the whole game, effectively removing what little chance the Killer had to stumble upon them and changing nothing to their uselessness.
2: People that used Distortion merely has a tool to help their team without necessarily taking chase first/often (either due to a lack of confidence in their looping skills or merely preffered playstyle, which is how the vast majority of the players using Distortion use the perk) will remove Distortion from their build in favor of gen-speed perks (likely rearranging whole builds in the process in some cases) and variety will go down again.
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@Altan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800733#Comment_3800733
What do you think people were doing when Kate wasn't a survivor
Sure they still learned, but newcomers/casuals had an even worse time than they do now and would go down even faster (although not by much), leading many people to simply give up on the game before they could learn enough to be able to enjoy the game (not to mention that there was a time when basekit BT and anti-facecamp wasn't a thing and tunnelling was even easier and uncounterable for SoloQ even if it wasn't more common than nowadays). Getting friends to try and keep playing was much harder before.
WoO doesn't make someone magically good at looping, just know where are the deadzones that their teammates likely created, chances are they waste pallets early and every other chases are a non-issue.
People give up on 1st hook enough as it is, no reason to make it worse. BHVR tries to put things in place so that players of all skill level can at least somewhat play the game and bridge the gap between SWF and SoloQ (which is why Kindred but without Killer aura should be basekit imo, HUD info was a great step in the right direction) so Windows has it's place and should remain, especially with ever-changing maps and tiles as well as some amount of rng in map-generation.
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There's two rather simple ways to get around DS if it's bothering you that much.
1: Don't tunnel, I know it might be a foreign concept but it's possible and even encouraged by the community despite BHVR apparently wanting it if their obsession with the Finisher Mori is any indication. The chances of slurs and threats are reduced significantly when not tunneling.
2: If they try to weaponize it then either down them or let them go. They can't do gens or heal if they want to keep their DS so it's the same as being in a 3v1 for 60 seconds.
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People don't seem to realize that these changes to Skull Merchant aren't for any kind of balance purposes.
These changes are happening to "soft-killswitch" her without actually killswitching her in order to silence the complaints until her actual rework in 2025 (a BHVR employee on Reddit apparently said so in a post). After all, how often do you hear people complain about Freddy?
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Honestly, if number tweaks were too much to ask, all they had to do was tie token recharge with gen repair.
This would fix the main issue people complain about: Survivors hiding and not helping.
It would be much harder to hide in endgame/in a 2v1 since to keep hiding they would need to come out and do gens (and if a Killer finds a partially repaired gen then they know that someone is around even without needing aura).
But well, rip Distortion I guess if the Devs don't change their mind. For the vast majority of Survivors they will get 3 uses per match tops since all their chases will end on a hook. Complainers won.
Goodbye altruist-stealth build, hello yet another gen perk or Sprint Burst.
Good ol' perk variety getting lowered again...
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The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799872#Comment_3799872
According to the dev update, the mori won't be forced. Idk why people are still thinking that…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/144FAI0T3G1G/finishermori2.png
We know it's not forced, but if you want that juicy Mori animation then yes, you will be forced to 4k.
Which will make slugging for the 4k even more common and make people hate those animations.
People aren't stupid, it's likely that purchaseable Mori animations are planned so BHVR is trying to make Mori animations more common to justify those micro-transactions, unaware of how unhealthy the whole thing is.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
I mean this patch is great apart from Skull Merchant being taken round the back of the shed + some of the other killer tweaks. If they undo a bunch of the nerfs it'll be peak.
I dislike Skull Merchant, I think her gameplay loop is among the most braindead in the game with her skill floor being arguably among the lowest in the game with her skill ceiling not being very high (I'm not a "main" of anything before that shows up) and newcomer/casuals can't even learn anything from it, but those nerfs are utterly overkill and they are basically only there to silence complaints and "soft-killswitch" her until her actual rework later (there's apparently a post from a BHVR employee on Reddit which says exactly that).
Distortion nerf is absolutely overkill, it might as well be reverted to 3 tokens without recharge for the vast majority of the playerbase since basically every chases end on a hook. Not to mention how much of an indirect Nurse buff it is due to her often bringing full aura, just bringing new Zanshin alongside I'm All Ears would make mindgames against Nurse & Pyramid Head impossible in chase. It should be tied to gen repair (like, repair 35% of a gen or spend 35 seconds on a gen to recharge 1 token) so that rats who hide all game can't do it if they don't help the team (which exposes them to being found normally). The majority of people using Distortion aren't hiding all game, some do but the majority don't, they are simply not confident in their ability to run the Killer for long and prefer a more objective-altruistic playstyle.
I don't get the Twins nerf, there's barely any even if they are kinda boring due to all the slugging.
Most of the other perks are fine, although the Lucky Star nerf is weird and Quick Gambit and Corrective Action will be terrifying in good swf.
It's baffling that they kill Distortion in the same patch as giving more aura-reading and gen-speed perks. People will literally only run gen builds if they can't hide anymore.
Billy needed a cooldown nerf but the other changes are meh, won't make much of a difference.
Unknown nerf is odd, he's already rare enough that he didn't need any "nerf" other than a proximity-based zone where he can't put clones too close to hooked Survivors. Back-to-hook-Andys are common enough, Hag should get this too, why are Dredge & Singularity forbidden from being insane Back-to-hook-Andys but not them?
Finisher Mori+Mori offerings gone is horrible and should be scrapped forever. It's just unhealthy and promotes slugging for the 4k/tunneling even more than now, the last PTB to try this showed enough.
Hopefully the community makes most of those changes go away or reduced enough that we don't lose even more playstyle, perk & Killer variety.
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The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
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I honestly believe those changes are simply to delete without truly deleting Skull Merchant (since they can't exactly killswitch/refund a Killer for an unknown amount of months) from the game until her 2025 rework and make people complaining about her quiet. As far as Killer changes go (some perks were arguably more destroyed than this, looking at Distortion and Ultimate Weapon here) this is almost up to par with Freddy.
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Bro, SBTFL and PWYF have been killed off, the devs won't back down. The perk is useless on many Killers and is now only good when proxy-camping and tunnelling most of time.
Deathslinger & Trickster lose stacks even before taking a health state away (4 stacks lost when Deathslinger spears + M1 the Obssession which means 8 stacks lost in one chase, 2 stacks lost per knife for Trickster which means 8 stacks lost before even taking a health state) which makes the perk unusable on them.
Nemesis loses stacks even when infecting (not damaging) a Survivor, making the perk mediocre on him. Same goes for every hybrid Killers.
I honestly don't think I've seen a single dev ever mention those things when people pointed them out unless it was to say "it's intended" despite some of those things being obviously broken so don't get your hopes up, they killed STBFL and reduced PWYF synergy (what little it did have) and they want to keep it that way.
Like, it's approaching a full year and not a word on this.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773559#Comment_3773559
Just tie token regeneration to healing others and gen progression. That way Distortion users have to be useful to their teammates if they want to hide their aura.
@Skillfulstone
Edit: You already beat me to it. That's thirteen seconds of my life I wasted lmao
My apologies XD It's nice to see a like-minded individual who thinks beyond simple nuking and tries to think of healthy changes however.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3774011#Comment_3774011
I mean, yeah, but Ultimate Weapon was an extremely problematic perk, much more so than Distortion. I'd be surprised if the nerf to Distortion completely obliterated it, instead of having it be toned down a bit.
It's also pretty unique in what it does, unlike Ultimate Weapon, which is one of many tracking perks. The only really comparable alternative is Object of Obsession, but that doesn't support a stealthy playstyle.
I'm leaning towards the outlook of that it's going to get a minor nerf for these reasons, but we'll see, I guess.
A minor nerf you said? The Dev update would like to differ.
People complained too much and, as I expected but dreaded, the perk was nerfed into uselessness, it's honestly even worse than I thought it would be. Even Ultimate Weapon is arguably better than Distortion if they go through with that horrible change.
Like, just tie token recharge to gen repair and the issues are basically gone since Survivors have to contribute to be able to hide.
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The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
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Don't you know? Gen slowdown is frowned upon and even weaker Killers can't use perks to compensate for their longer chases...
And people wonder why tunnelling is rampant.
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@codebibi said:
with all perks and add ons combine killers have nearly 100 things to see survivors aura, they can easily make a build to have a permanent wallhack the entire game and you just gutted the one single thing survivors have to counter that. great job bhvr you've just made survivors experience even more bad and awful for survivors
@Ohyakno said:
Yeah, and one perk counters all of those perks, disincentivizing running them. Killers could have 500 ways to read auras, but if all of them are shut down by a single perk then the quantity does not matter.
Honestly, if number tweaks were too much to ask, all they had to do was tie token recharge with gen repair.
This would fix the main issue people complain about: Survivors hiding and not helping.
It would be much harder to hide in endgame since to keep hiding they would need to come out and do gens (and if a Killer finds a partially repaired gen then they know that someone is around even without needing aura).
But well, rip Distortion I guess if the Devs don't change their mind. For the vast majority of Survivors they will get 3 uses per match tops since all their chases will end on a hook. Complainers won.
Goodbye altruist-stealth build, hello yet another gen perk or Sprint Burst.
Good ol' perk variety getting lowered again...
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Literally all they had to do, if small number tweaks was too much to ask, was tie token recharge to gen repairs;
Survivors wouldn't be able to hide forever without progressing the objective (and if the Killer finds a gen partially repaired then they know someone is around) in endgame.
This would encourage even stealth players to contribute and assist their teammates.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797209#Comment_3797209
Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you here in general, but it feels odd to comment that on this post specifically lol
It was a followup to my previous post sorry.