Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974215#Comment_3974215
The Go Next system isn't falsely punishing people anywhere near as often as most people's anti-slugging ideas would.
Look how rare the evidence is for the Go Next false flags. There are people in this forums thread, that would absolutely jump at the chance to prove the Go Next system isn't working properly, but instead of giving their own evidence, they just comment on what happened to other people.
We certainly had a lot of videos floating around the internet of people getting AFK crows, when the anti hiding update happened. So why aren't we seeing a lot of videos floating around the internet, of people getting falsely flagged by the Go Next system?
I really don't get how the argument is even happening (granted, I think it's almost you vs the rest of the playerbase at that point when it comes to defending this system) when it should stop at even a single occurence. There's not even a need for an actual ban to occur in order for any debate to be unnecessary since the system uses the same parameters when issuing warnings and actual penalties.
Imagine being a newcomer to the game (or just someone who plays occasionally and casually, or just someone using STB at the wrong time) and you're unlucky and get hard-tunneled, or simply make a mistake (run into a stealth Killer by accident for example) then you get warned about "suspicious behavior" by the game.
Getting penalties for DCing is fine, going next was considerably reduced by the removal of self-unhooks without perks/offerings. There will always be people who throw in some way out of spite if every other ways to quit are somehow removed. Even if somehow BHVR was able to give the system the mystical ability to tell the difference in any scenarios between bad plays/tunnels/bad luck and actual intentional giving up, some people, out of spite, would start to run around and drop every pallets or just run around but do nothing productive until the Killer eventually finds them.
Frequency isn't an argument, even a single innocent player getting a warning is enough to send such a system back into the oven since, even if it won't be scrapped, it's obviously not done cooking yet and still needs work because it can punish the wrong people.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
How much were you expecting for them to give you?
The total BP value of all offerings/add-ons that were lost when they became retired?
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Due to the fact that the backlash would be terrifying if it ever turned out to be a lie, I don't doubt the matchmaking is MMR-based in DBD. They've said, repeated, and even showed stats based around MMR brackets, it's also why smurf accounts (like some people who do "Hardcore Survivor/Killer challenges" & hackers (who can freely choose their lobbies)) have games where they destroy their opponents at first. If it was ever discovered that MMR wasn't a thing, any kind of DBD social platform would burn down almost overnight.
However;
The "average MMR" bracket is huge and, as such, takes from most of the playerbase (as the "low MMR" and "high MMR" brackets are minuscule). This by default causes a few mismatches but would be manageable on it's own.
This is further exacerbated by the true problem: Backfilling (when someone quits a lobby that's filled before the game starts) because, to not double the wait times every time someone quits in the lobby, the system essentially ignores MMR in order to get someone else to fill the void almost immediately if someone leave, which makes it likely to bring someone from a completely different league (it's hard to see it when playing Killer or SoloQ because it's often you who joined a lobby that someone left, and sometimes more than one people leave a lobby which makes it even worse).
The feeling that matches are complete stomps is even further given due to the fact that, on the Survivor side, even a single bad teammate (or troll) can easily cause a massive snowball even if the rest of the team is much better. I've rarely seen multiplayer games where the saying "A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link." is so accurate. Even the best looper needs his teammates to be efficient on gens for his skills to be useful, even the most skilled gen-jockeys can't do gens efficiently if there's two people on hook at all times.
If backfilling didn't exist at all, we would likely see a massive improvement to match quality with only a moderate impact on queue times. But it's quite frankly impossible to entirely remove backfilling since it would mean that every time someone leaves a lobby, the system would need to refresh it's search and the wait times would double, maybe triple, if someone left, and no one would want to wait so long to play. Imagine how long 2v8 wait times would be if even our current loose system makes Killers wait 20+ minutes (because while the secondary modes/events don't increase or decrease MMR, the system still looks for players in your bracket unless backfilling happens).
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Essentially no competition (every other horror assym is either dying or dead).
Immense variety and rng makes every games feel a tad different (although most of them end in the same boring way, with one person slugged for 4 minutes or until their last teammate gets downed).
Regular content update keeps bringing people back.
Enough big Youtubers/streamers to keep the game relevant even during it's worst periods.
Even if SoloQ is miserable, playing with friends is actually fun most of the time even if you lose.
Popular licenses, together, with more joining as time goes on, which no other game in this style ever had, and likely never will have again.
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@Bloodartist said:
What the heck! You censored Vecna's mori at some point! It no longer shows off the survivor's skeleton having its flesh ripped off before it collapses to the ground. I understand that it was pretty gory, but this is supposed to be a horror game. Now the camera is off angle and just shows mostly empty air.
What gives?! I hope this is a bug of some sort… Vecna sucks so bad already he definitely didn't need this as well.It's a bug, a few youtubers covered it. If it was intentional it would have shown up in a patch note.
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@Linkdouken said:
Yes, you will keep everything as it's tied to your xbox profile so as long as you still play with the same one, you'll be fine.
Thanks!
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@Linkdouken said:
Yes, you will keep everything as it's tied to your xbox profile so as long as you still play with the same one, you'll be fine.
Do I need to keep using physical version or is it possible to switch to digital while keeping everything?
(Thank you btw for the response).
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@CakeIsTheRoad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959620#Comment_3959620
Just out of curiosity: Do you think if perks percent of effectiveness was based off the strength of a killer you faced instead of the perk level matches would be more fair? For example: Deja Vu was a 3% repair against low-tiers (Trapper) but a 6% repair against high-tier killers (Blight). Surge was 8% progression loss for high-tiers (Blight) but 12% for low-tiers (Trapper). That type of thing? I suppose you would have to sort all the killers into 3 categories based off how quickly they build up pressure/strength in a match, but I would assume the developers would have the best stats to backup that type of categorization anyway. I couldn't say if the idea is viable in anyway for DBD, it's more just an interesting thought experiment.
Not that the idea is bad per-say, but it just wouldn't work in a live-service game where a single update can nuke one Killer from orbit while making another jump several tiers in tier lists.
The amount of work and time for every Killer updates would exponentially increase (as Killer numbers and Killer perks go up) since every perk in the game would need to be tweaked every time a change that has any significance happens. It's just not possible with the sheer (and constantly growing) anount of content in the game.
There would literally need to be an entire extra category of feedback dedicated to perk variants.
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Yeah, "Not meeting our standard" could also mean;
"We watched this video, found in various threads...
https://youtu.be/4YylV9xqt9A?si=uFEzbgiOfLfqHlXD…and figured that if basekit Unbreakable was poison for the game before, it would still be poison later."
In all seriousness though, there are several valid anti-slug measures possible, but basekit infinite Unbreakable is not it. When it was tried, not only did it not fix slugging but it made slugging for the 4k even more tedious since Killers would still slug but instead of wasting 4 minutes of everyone's time, it sometimes wasted 15+ minutes since Killers (especially Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum) couldn't down the last Survivor before the other one got back up, leading to an unbearable loop.
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@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959055#Comment_3959055
It doesn't matter which was more common. Why is only one side trapped in a game they have deemed unwinnable?
The frequency of people disconnecting etc is completely irrelevant. It is another situation where survivors are told how they should play and killers are left to do as they please even though the way they play will often make people want to leave.
Saying the unfun playstyles will be addressed soon is also irrelevant to this discussion. They aren't dealt with right now and yet survivors are forced to stay in a game with those unfun playstyles.
On top of that you can no longer leave when the killer has a high ping you just have to keep playing because you are punished for disconnecting and punished for giving up.
Let's not fool ourselves either. The anti tunnel/slug/camp will be a light touch as usual AND killers will more than likely be given something to make it easier for them to cope with.
Something being common, and community backlash being more widespread and loud as a result, is directly linked to how fast something is addressed (or if something is even addressed at all) by the Devs. While it's true that stats are often used a bit too much, community outcry and frequency does affect some decisions.
Recently, part of the Anti-go-next system (the part that gave penalties when Survivors died too quickly for its taste, giving false positives that people were giving up when in truth they were merely getting tunneled or were just inexperienced) was kill switched in a matter of days due to the unfair punishment it granted. Now Survivors who want to just "go next" for any reason (if they don't have a luck offering/perk to make going next possible again) will simply run to the Killer to get hooked faster without fear of getting a penalty for it, the Abandon function also effectively removed griefing Survivors by slugging everyone and letting them bleed out as now they can just leave with no penalty if everyone is incapacitated.
The Anti-AFK crows, after enough people spoke about it and even showed videos, were made more lenient within two patches in order to not punish people during normal gameplay in situations that essentially required staying hidden for some time and didn't punish newcomers that were simply lost and couldn't find gens or totems.
BHVR has a lot of faults, and they sometimes make very questionable decisions, but (especially in recent times) they did prove that some of their decisions are influenced (whether it's reverting something or implementing something) by the community.
All their "Anti-something" measures are made to only target extreme cases without affecting normal gameplay too much (it's why the crows were made more lenient fairly quickly, for example). It's obvious that the anti-slug/tunnel/camp won't be something that completely removes those things from the game, just like the anti-AFK doesn't completely remove hiding for a long time but deals with extreme cases decently enough. Just like the first crows could be weaponized by the Killer (slug the 3rd Survivor and the 4th was forced to either go for the slug asap or jump on a gen if they didn't want crows giving their position away, both options making them very vulnerable to be spotted by the Killer, which made slugging for the 4k worse) and were changed because of it, the devs have to keep the Anti-slug/tunnel/camp from being too powerful that they can actively be weaponized to create lose-lose scenarios.
I will agree that it's annoying to be kinda-trapped in a match with a cheater/VPN Killer for longer (although you can still throw yourself at the Killer to quicken the process, or bring a luck offering if the option of going next on first hook is that important) and I think BHVR should make going next on 2nd hook after 2 missed skill checks still a thing (especially when in 2v1 situations where you want to give a chance at Hatch to your teammate). But I do believe that their upcoming Anti-everything mechanics will, at the very least, make those playstyles less efficient and thus less viable (or at least tedious/annoying enough to be a deterrent).
It's a shame it wasn't addressed sooner, but better late than never. After they dealt with the first AFK crows iteration and with the faulty Anti-go-next penalties in a timely manner, I'm willing to give BHVR a chance with their anti-slug/tunnel/camp, at least until they give more details and show if their first drafts are efficient without going overboard.
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@DBD2025MakesMeSad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958960#Comment_3958960
Survivors were being punished for using shoulder the burden and also for killers tunnelling them out.
Killers should 100% be punished for giving up. Survivors queued up for that game and that killer not playing has taken away the experience/fun for 4 people in that room but we never punish ANYTHING on killer side do we? They can play however they want - tunnel, camp, slug, give up - all OK, survivors weren't even allowed to click a torch quickly because killers got upset by it.
If survivors are going to have a giving up punishment, killers should also have an equivalent punishment for giving up
The frequency of Survivors giving up (either through DC or going next on hook or simply throwing on purpose) vs the frequency of Killers giving up (either through DC or through going sulking in a corner) aren't even remotely similar.
Even now, when going next on hook is no longer a thing, I've seldom had games without at least one DC/Abandon or just someone idling or running to the Killer. Killers usually give up when they are getting crushed and have like 0 hooks and 3-4 gens are gone in the first 4 minutes, Survivors sometimes give up simply based on the Killer they are facing, no interaction needed beyond seeing the Killer.
When a Survivor DCs or gives up, the match keeps going but the remaining Survivors are basically doomed if it happened too early. When the Killer DCs, the match ends instantly. When the Killer gives up and goes to sulk, it's a free win for the Survivors, prime time for possible achievements and BP farming. The consequences are different.
Furthermore, Killers do have an AFK penalty/punishment. There's a reason why the AFK Doctor bots are hitting the air repeatedly: if the Killer goes AFK for too long then they will get a penalty after the game is over.
Also, there are Anti-camping, Anti-tunnelling and Anti-slugging measures coming soon to the game (good things, if done correctly and carefully without going overboard). Playstyles which are not fun are getting addressed soon.
It's true that a Killer that gives up/DCs effectively voids the match for everyone (although the amount of frustration born from the Killer giving up is nowhere near how annoyed Survivors are when one of their teammates just gives up, and there are more Survivors in a match than Killers) but if it was a common thing, the forums would be just as filled with that as it has been filled with complaints about Survivors going next for years. Yet usually the only thing that results from a Killer DC/giving up is an easy win/BP party and maybe a video or clip from some Survivors if they happen to be content creators.
Notice how, when the anti-go-next was first implemented, a lot of people (including some content creators) said that their Killer matches suddenly felt a bit harder? That's because people going next on hook was so common and done early that many matches that would have been perfectly winnable were doomed from the start because someone didn't like something.
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Congrats!
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958796#Comment_3958796
Nobody knows so far, but I would assume that it mainly implies that it does not add Gens to Maps anymore. And IMO this is the only change which is needed, because the Perk is completely fine as it is.
I do hope it is, because the perk is perfect as it is.
Useful for newcomers and for preventing difficult situations/helping a bit in endgame.
Not powerful enough to be problematic even if in a combo and is still nullified by blindness.
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As I understand it, the Déjà Vu nerf will be related to it's aura-reveal of 3-gens and interactions with map (likely making it time-limited or a revert) and...why? It's a good perk to know where gens are (especially good for newcomers/casual players that don't know the spawns) and good for preventing 3-gens before they happen, but it's not a problem...
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956927#Comment_3956927
I have a screenshot and footage of this happening today. Here is the screenshot of the spawns:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1LDGC91UBH9Z/image.png
You can see 1 survivor off to the left way away by themselves, myself spawning near the middle of the map, and 3 survivors in front of me. I'd also say that the survivor in the dead center is probably more than 12 meters away from the other 2 because it looks like they spawned closer to the back corner, but its tough to say from this angle, 12 meters being about 2 lunges, should be quite a short range.
Here is the video, i included the loading screen to show that nobody brought offerings to change the spawn locations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbQ8PQZq-Kc
I also have the full match recorded if you need it for some reason, and went into the pause menu to see the map ID if that matters for map generation/spawn locations.
In general though, this is the kind of thing i'm seeing, sometimes the survivors spawn in pairs super far apart. I think 1 time i noticed them spawning all 4 in completely random places like it used to be and me in the middle, again with no offerings to change it.
At first I thought it could have been the work of Vigo's Shroud (because who knows what it does now with the spawn rules, if it even does anything) but since there's no offering…
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957990#Comment_3957990
This REALLY is a lot of work, to ensure innocent people are never punished by AFK crows.
I hope this amount of empathy and attention is applied to the phase 2 changes for killers. I hope the anti camping/tunneling/slugging changes are so barely noticeable, that they never ever punish innocent killers.
Because I've personally seen the crow loud noise notifications ZERO TIMES since the AFK crow nerfs, because they got nerfed so badly. So it would be a horrible double standard if the anti camping/slugging/tunneling changes punished innocent killers.
I agree, ensuring that innocent players aren't punished just for playing inefficiently and/or ending up in lose-lose scenarios is more important than harshly and consistently punishing something, on either sides.
This is why the anti-slugging/anti-tunnel/anti-camp can't be too broad or impactful to not create lose-lose situations or become weaponizable, it's why basekit Unbreakable can never be a thing is the base game (in Chaos Shuffle, fine, it's time-limited and the chances of getting the right perks are slim to none) and why most "anti-something" measures should be focused on only dealing with the most egregious cases.
A small demonstration of why basekit Unbreakable cannot be in base game;
https://youtu.be/4YylV9xqt9A?si=uFEzbgiOfLfqHlXDThis was during the previous Basekit Unbreakable PTB, not only did it not fix anything (people still bled out and got repeatedly slugged even if they could get up) but it was easily abuseable to create lose-lose scenarios.
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Alright! Back from testing with friends (and roping in a couple beginners to help) and the changes are very apparent.
It's essentially impossible to get crows during normal gameplay outside of very specific extreme situations (slugging for the 4k guaranteed crows is kinda fixed? Getting 3 crows likely wont happen if you at least move around a bit, but one or two crows are still possible depending on Killer movement and Survivor movement.).
However, during our testing one of my friends and I had an idea to fix the "got only 1 or 2 crows and got my position given away" issue;
Make crows invisible and inaudible to the Killer (the Survivor would still see & hear them so they know that time is running out and they should move or do something soon) until 3 crows are gathered. That way someone hiding because a Killer is frantically searching for them after slugging their teammate won't be unfairly revealed by the single crow they got, but someone who hid in basement/map corner for the whole match will be revealed. When 3 crows are gathered, not only do they give periodic loud noise notifications and become visible but they also make directional noise in a 24m radius.
This would remove the issue of getting revealed even though you were hiding by necessity rather than spite.
While I still believe the original system was fine for the most part, and all that was needed was collision loss and item dropping/picking up no longer preventing crows, this is a much better version of the new iteration with a lot less room for undeserved crows.
Overall, pretty much a W change, but the crows being invisible and inaudible until 3 are gathered would fix the handful of situations where it can still happen.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957537#Comment_3957537
So better question… has any suggestion or feedback from the suggestion and feedback part of the forum actually been used? Any examples?
Honestly, a bunch of stuff in the QOL updates (current and coming soon) are stuff that have been asked in the forums (more perk presets, bulk bloodpoint spending, gamma settings, prestige rewards, M&K support for consoles, Anti-go-next, that last one needs some serious tweaks though).
Even if the time it takes varies greatly, a bunch of stuff from the playerbase (asked through the forums among many places) eventually got implemented.
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While there is some "chase" in it, there is an assym horror PVP game called "In Silence".
One player is a nearly-blind monster but with insane mobility and sound sensitivity while the other players (2 to 6) are Survivors that must, as the name implies, silently retrieve parts & fuel and bring them back to a car in order to escape together.
When the monster finds and grabs a Survivor (an instant-kill in this game) the Survivor, if they found one in the map beforehand, can "wiggle out" using firecrackers, however those flashbangs do not respawn so hiding is paramount.
The game is pretty old though so I'm not certain of the playerbase size. But when I played it years ago it was fun.
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There's so much potential for RE Legendary skins in DBD. A few on the top of my head;
Dr.Salvador (RE4 Remake) or Ubistvo (RE6) for Billy.
Sherry (RE6) for Jill or Rebecca.
Luis (RE4 Remake) for Leon.
Armadura (RE4 Remake) for Knight.
I could go on.
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The Mechanic Toolbox (due to its much higher repair speed, which can be further increased by add-ons, and low charges) is good as a "quick & safe" option.
Franklin's will hurt a lot less if you use it from the get-go and all the charges are gone before the Killer even reaches you, doing almost a third of a gen by yourself in seconds in the process depending on add-ons.
It's also, as you said, a good option to swiftly finish a nearly-completed gen in the Killer's vicinity.
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I have a few "rules" for myself.
-If someone DCs: The bot will be hunted down and everyone else will be hooked twice for BP purposes, but no one else will die (unless their teammates leave them to rot on hook) and farming will be done if accepted. People do not deserve to automatically lose because one of their teammate didn't like how the game started/what Killer I was playing/the map.
-If a Survivor is clearly trying to sabotage/BM the others (teabagging downed Survivors, sandbagging someone else by dropping pallets randomly/in front of their teammate in chase) they will be cut down and everyone else will be hooked twice for BP purposes, but no one else will die (unless their teammates leave them to rot on hook) and farming will be done if accepted.
-If a Survivor goes next early using luck offering/perk, everyone else will be hooked twice for BP purposes, but no one else will die (unless their teammates leave them to rot on hook) and farming will be done if accepted. People do not deserve to automatically lose because one of their teammate didn't like how the game started/what Killer I was playing/the map.
-If the Survivors are farming/memeing, I'll join in. The game is too sweaty as it is, games are supposed to be fun, everyone gets max BP and ideally it ends in a slug race with a countdown. Bonus point if someone needs an unreasonable achievement and I can help them get it (I honestly think I gave the "Left For Dead" achievement to dozens of people over the years, usually one of us sent a message to the other and the other 3 just decided to nope out of there early. I also purposefully spared people that managed to get the Hand/Eye of Vecna. Those achievements are unreasonably hard to get in a regular match.).
-A Music Band will automatically get to live and I will provide enthusiastic nodding/dance moves (depending on the Killer I happen to be playing).
-Someone who manages to make me vault/fall down with Plot Twist will get to live because they freakin' deserve to and because I'll be too busy laughing.
As you can see I do not sweat, at all, as Killer in this game XD I'd much rather everybody have fun and get pips/BP than lock in every game and get called slurs in the post-game chat/messages.
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I usually hate being pessimistic, but if basekit Unbreakable makes it into the base game, then it'll just be unbearable with certain setups. Here's a video showcasing why basekit Unbreakable is a bad idea.
https://youtu.be/4YylV9xqt9A?si=uFEzbgiOfLfqHlXDThis was during the PTB when they tried it the first time. It didn't fix anything and people still bled out.
This isn't the way to fix slugging, at all, this is downright poison for the game.
In Chaos Shuffle, fine, it's time-limited and it'll make Killer queues a bit shorter. But it CANNOT be in base game.
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@Munky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956077#Comment_3956077
Yes the abandon button gives a win, that doesn't mean ppl like myself are abandoning games, we just get high escape rates… because something happened in the last update. You are about the 5th person to mention that. You aren't going to read anything else? I don't abandon. Look at the 'recent matches' screenshots, you can literally see they aren't abandoned.
No one is saying that you are lying/abandoning games, but there are thousands of players in DBD (even more so recently) and in most games I play I see at least one Abandon (due to slugging for the 4k at the end or simply when the last Survivor goes down and just skips the Mori they have seen 153256 times already to go to the next match quicker).
Abandons are common, sure not everyone does it (for various reasons) but it's pretty common when the game is basically over.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955445#Comment_3955445
TBF I've noticed you on a number of threads asking folks to post their escape rates, even when they havent said they never escape. If they say survivor is currently miserable, you ask for their escape rate. You can find games unenjoyable even if you win. Even folks who 4k as killer can have miserable games against flashlight or Head On squads. Killing them doesn't always make up for a bad time.
Yeah, honestly this kind of thing is exactly why player stats should never have been made readily available and why MMR should NEVER be readily available.
We can already see it on the forums, and not just from that guy, that many people's first argument when they disagree with someone is "well show us your stats" in an attempt to take away the viability of their opinions in the eyes of others.
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Killer: Never settle for a partner that isn't as devoted to you as I am to finding S.T.A.R.S.
Survivor: I caught up to a jet fighter while wearing heels.
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Keep in mind that, in events & modifiers, MMR is deactivated (as far as I know).
A day 1 player actually has a slim chance of playing with/vs people from the top 1%.
So insane MMR mismatches are very common during events.
MMR being deactivated also affects some players' behavior;
-Killers can 4k all they want with no fear of climbing MMR and ending up against strong teams.
-Survivors care a bit less about dying and farming BP sometimes take priority over actually escaping.
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Pentimento shouldn't have been gutted in the first place.
I understand it was rough on newcomers (and BHVR knew that with the FNAF chapter, a wave of newcomers would arrive and they had to do what they could to keep some of those newcomers) but the nerf was way too harsh.
20% only on the first rekindled totem, with only a measly +3% per extra totems, is a complete waste when Survivors don't even have to really look for it.
Dying Light and Thana (depending on the Killer) are arguably better gen-debuffs since even if their debuffs are lower, it will be active almost all the time. Especially since they don't require another perk to even work.
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Well, she's much more "active" than SM 2.0. Now you must keep in mind that every time a Survivor enters a loop/high-traffic area then you have to manually switch drone rotation to have any hope to get tags. You can't just drop a drone at loops and forget it anymore.
You can also simply play her like you would play Wraith but keep in mind you have no speed boost and the Undetectable is only a few seconds although there's basically no sound cue unless Survivors are right next to you. Many people, since she got nuked, essentially play her like that and simply don't even try to set up drones for tags in strategic positions.
Remember that SM, even Undetectable, has essentially no audio cue like Wraith or Ghostie so a well-timed drone can get you a gen grab if you manage to stay unseen.
She actually does decent in indoor ma- nevermind you probably won't get one even with an offering now. RIP Scratched Mirror Myers.
She does benefit from perks messing with her Terror Radius (Trail of Torment and Unforeseen have gotten me a few cheeky grabs, Dark Devotion can be decent) but you'll likely want to have at least 2 M1 chase perks. With STBFL being more common for camping/forcing trades than normal chasing after its ill-thought-out nerf, and Sloppy being essentially ignored by good Survivors since it's on a timer (which makes it worthless if you down & hook the Survivor you just hit since the timer will have run out) I would recommend Bam and either Brutal Strength (to brute-force loops) or Nowhere To Hide (NTH synergizes well with the on-demand Undetectable and is a great info perk overall even if it's held back a little by the regression limit) alongside one or two stealth perks.
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Yes, cheaters can manually DC you, in fact they can even crash your game entirely. Suspiciously-timed "server crashes" are sometimes the work of a cheater.
There's honestly not much they can't do, they can even bypass server-closing time.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
As a side, I love the direction of this post. What started as a fair question about haste stacking has quickly turned into: "What did you do to Taurie, you monster!".
I mean, comparing the BP of Taurie vs everyone else (7k vs 30k+) it pretty much means that Taurie spent basically just as much time playing the game as she spent in lobby while the others, even if they died eventually, played an almost full match.
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I'm honestly surprised a bug like this (if it's even a bug and wasn't just forgotten in the patch note) wasn't sent to "investigating" status in like 30 minutes due to Springtrap being a new release.
My theory is that the bug originates from BHVR fixing the (now fixed) speed bug that Springtrap had which made him zoom after missing an attack while carrying a Survivor he he didn't have his axe.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://nightlight.gg/killers/viewer
I know these are fan reported but before they were fairly accurate to the actual killrate and you can feel more of a pressure when playing on the killer end. I have a few videos of playing springtrap not missing a axe and perfectly hitting survivors consecutively and it still reaching endgame (this was with me splitting hooks though I coulda probably tunneled to win easier). Its crazy to see all killers dropping as much as 10% in some cases. I noticed on survivor end since I have less leaver/Go next teammates we are able to pressure the killer more and actually play the game to the fullest. Do we think go-next had a hand in forcing survivors to be more serious? Or is this a fluke or something in just statistics? Another end is a lot of the natural timesinks are gone from survivor depending on the build. Healing? We have a bunch of heal based perks that are buffed now. Hexs? Well besides devour with the fall of penti not many of the hexs force survivors to go hunting. In chase we still have the usual haste and exhaustion perks so that hasn't really changed. A lot of the regression perks have been nerfed and progression buffed (call of brine being the most recent buff to regression so its a half decent perk now) Eitherway what do we think changed?
See yall in the fog
-Less early quitters.
-New crow system instinctively pushes people to stick to gens more. Even if it's been updated to be more lenient for the sake of newcomers and certain situations.
-Wave of new players also mean wave of new Killers, and new Killers tend to not fare well against good Survivors.
-Question answered.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
That's how it works already, no?
Nah, basically it lasts a few seconds and you have to re-reveal him afterwards.
It only takes a couple seconds if he is still in camera range, but it's time-based.
I honestly believe it should simply last longer overall, it's mostly a waste of time right now that could be better spent on a gen.
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@Massquwatt said:
I have to be honest but I'm not entirely sure where people were coming from with the first iteration of the AFK crows. Unless I've always been a VERY active survivor player I've never once gotten crows since it's implementation. And from my perspective on killer matches I've only seen somebody get the crows once because they were afk for 5 minutes. I have to wonder what people were (or weren't) doing to gain crows in their matches because I've hardly experienced them or seen anyone experience them. The only way you're getting them was if you're just spending 2 or more minutes at a time doing nothing.
Unless you're actively looking for them, you'll rarely see your teammates getting crows specifically because they are hiding in a corner, dropping and picking up an item non-stop, for ages. Survivors rarely see their teammates' crows because crows (are supposed to) mean that they are being inactive and out of sight for a long time.
The first iteration wasn't an issue in every match, nor was it an issue for every players, but it was limiting and it made certain situations horrible. The worst one was when the Killer slugged the 3rd Survivor to look for the 4th and there were still at least one gen left, the Killer could simply patrol around the slug and the last Survivor (obviously unable to save the slug without trading at best) would be forced on a gen in order to not get crows, however when the gen eventually gets done it would light a massive "I am in this direction!" sign which would likely lead the Killer right to them. It would create lose-lose situations which should never happen, for either side.
The first iteration was also harsh on newcomers who didn't know anything and are obviously much more prone to hiding at the first sign of the Terror Radius and even more so when injured, now imagine that in a tight 3-gen, not to mention totem hunts were problematic depending on spawn rng (especially with Thrill of the Hunt) and were even worse for newcomers who didn't know the spawns.
There are other examples but these two were the most common and egregious. Newcomers were hit hard in certain situations and would sometimes get a crow just for being completely lost in indoor maps. Let's not forget that a single crow is enough to remove any ability to hide within a rather generous radius due to the noise it makes, no need for three crows.
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So wait, is the post saying it's now like that or is it a suggestion? (can't play rn). It wasn't in the patch notes...
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Well, while not as good as a partial revert, and slugging for the 4k in 2v1 situations is still an issue with the crows, at least now there should be less undeserved crows. Unfortunate that the most egregious (and common) situation is still not adressed by the crow change, just slightly mitigated.
I'm honestly not sure if spending all that time testing stuff with friends and making all those paragraphs were worth it.
Edit: after re-reading the patch note, and some quick math, there should be enough time to make slugging for the 4k in 2v1 situations (4 minutes) able to be dealt with without Survivors being in lose-lose scenarios. Good! Great thing!
I'll gather my friends again and do some testing of the new version, I'll update on that in a few days.
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Alright, so, after more time for testing with friends (had to rope in a few newcomers, thankfully my friends helped with that) I am back with some more thoughts about the "AFK" crow system. (remember me @Nazzzak ?)
While all I said earlier (and in many other threads) still holds pretty much true (mostly for newcomers, people playing efficiently will rarely get crows outside of very specific situations, which is a problem because newcomers will not play efficiently and will still think the game is hide & seek) there are a few more problematic situations that we came across, some of which are extremely egregious;
Slugging for the 4k (slugging the 3rd Survivor in order to get more time to find the 4th and guarantee the 4k/Mori while bypassing Hatch entirely, leading to a 4-minute bleedout waste of time that nobody enjoys) has been made so much worse. Everyone knows how boring and how much of a waste of time slugging for the 4k is, there's dozens of threads about it. The new "AFK crows" essentially strengthen slugging for the 4k by forcing the last Survivor to expose themselves when the other is downed, the Killer can simply patiently wait over the slug (or just patrol in close proximity) and the last Survivor (obviously unable to save the slug) will have to do gens to keep crows at bay BUT when they inevitably finish a gen it will light a massive "I am here!" beacon which is likely to lead to the Killer finding and downing the last Survivor. Fast Killers (Oni, Blight, Billy etc.) can push it further and simply sweep around the map at high-speed, looping back to the slug often, and the last Survivor will now not only be unable to save the slug safely but will also be forced to be very vulnerable to a fast Killer to keep crows at bay by using gens. Slugging for the 4k is one of the most egregious thing in the game and the new crow system essentially makes it so that the game is effectively over if two Survivors die and the gates aren't already powered. A SWF on comms can coordinate perks (bringing Unbreakable/Adrenaline) and arrange for them to get downed in the map corner in order to be able to somewhat deal with this if only a single gen remains, but no mechanic should require being in a SWF to deal with.
Endgame stalling. With the right perks (No Way Out, Remember Me etc.) some Killers can basically force Survivors to get crows by forcing them away from gates (and since there's no more gens to do…) for a long time. Trapper, Singularity, Springtrap (depending on door spawn), and the faster Killers can be quite good at forcibly revealing the Survivors' locations (a single crow is enough to reveal your location is a pretty wide radius due to the noise it makes). Newcomers (and SoloQ who can't coordinate) have a very hard time not getting undeserved crows in those situations.
After some more testing (and a bit of research) Thrill of the Hunt is rough when trying to get rid of a Hex that cannot be ignored (especially for newcomers who will likely take a long time to even find a totem since they don't know the spawns) and crows will quickly accumulate, forcing the Survivor to go back on gens to get rid of it since a single crow will prevent them from hiding near the Killer entirely. Even without Thrill, newcomers have more issues with totem hunts. Combine that with screaming perks and/or Doctor and it's very likely that crows will appear, especially for newcomers.
The more powerful Killers with high-mobility (Blight, Billy etc.) now can use Grim Embrace and Dead Man's Switch (or any gen-block perk) to forcibly give crows to Survivors by simply keeping them off of gens for a while and, due to their speed, be able to quickly patrol and scare away Survivors from gens. This is even worse on newcomers who don't know the gen spawns and are more easily scared into hiding by the Terror Radius.
Tight 3-gen situations, especially against fast Killers, are prime territory to get crows for newcomers due to being scared and not wanting to risk getting found. Comms can work around it but again, no mechanic should require comms/being in a SWF to deal with.
In one particularly hilarious (but unlikely to happen in a regular game outside of a severe MMR mismatch in favor of the Survivor) game, one of us got a crow while hiding in a locker on a tile on the edge of Toba Landing while another Survivor looped the Killer in that tile for essentially the whole game (we were waiting for him to get hit so he'd be able to get max distance from his Adrenaline to finish the last gen) and I assume the only reason why the Killer didn't care about the crows that spawned on the locker is because they were (for some reason) fixated on my friend and simply refused to drop chase despite having their metaphorical ankles turned to dust for so long that Wesker had no more time to play and had to leave. While an obvious outlier, this situation is nonetheless something that can happen if a Survivor ends up hiding near a chased teammate and was unfortunate enough to have already accumulated some AFK points beforehand (probably due to travel time and/or having been forced to wait for his gen to get unblocked).
Keep in mind, during most of our testing (in customs, some of it was done in pubs and usually not in a 4-man), we knew what we we going to deal with. Even with prior knowledge of what was going to be in play (something that is not the case during regular play) we still encountered undeserved crows a few times in select situations. We unfortunately lost one of our newcomers toward the end (at least from playing the Survivor role) when they got crows while they were hiding during a 2v1 slugging for the 4k situation. Myself and my more experienced friends (many of which are leagues better than me) rarely get crows during normal play since we play efficiently and try our best to stick to gens (even more than before due to the new "AFK" crow system, this actually made us change our builds a bit since stealth is less of a priority and is less viable overall, thank the Entity for Deja Vu otherwise our newcomers would have been utterly lost in indoor maps and it would make every issues of the system even worse), but people that are not playing with efficiency in mind (and/or are simply new) are very prone to accumulate AFK points and suddenly get a crow at the worst moment.
Quite frankly, the crows no longer feel like "AFK crows", they now feel more like "Guideline crows" in the sense that even though the players are NOT AFK and are moving/running/totem hunting/waiting out certain situations, the game now essentially says "you are not doing what you should be doing as much as you should". Experienced players that are playing efficiently will seldom see the system at work (unless in extreme situations like slugging for the 4k and endgame stalling) but there's no repeating it enough that newcomers get hit a lot more by it than experienced players even if they are actively playing. I really do hope it gets either partially reverted (dropping/picking up items no longer removing crows and loss of collision after 3 crows are great things to keep) or sent back to the drawing board. At least, it should be far more lenient overall and should deactivate entirely in certain situations (2v1 and a Survivor gets downed, being in a certain proximity to an exit game during endgame etc.) to deal with the extreme situations.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950058#Comment_3950058
I think the AFK System is a great idea and when its mended it will do alot against all those AFK people who plague our matches.
But I do think when there are 2 people left,
a downed or hooked player should be able to go next (bleed out)to give the other a chance to get hatch.Why? because the Killer already won the game by all accounts, of all the times I played Survivor. There is almost no way to do 2 gens as 2 people. The Killer needs to be purposely feigning ineptitude to not win. like 99% of matches are unwinnable like that.
This will unfortunately mean that Killer 4Ks would only happen if the Killer is lucky to find both of you and down the other fast or if they win the hatch showdown. OR if the last Survivor has a stick up theirs for the other Survivor. I think that will be fine tho.
But we really need a better system than abandoning in 2surv1down situation.
Ofc, just because the majority of the players in the match would like to push the game to Hatch Showdown does not mean its fair to the Killer, even tho idd be fine with it. We should consider that a score event, so split up No One Escaped into 1.250 Deviousness points, if the downed or hooked Survivor is killed or goes next and then another 1.250 for Killing the last remaining Survivor.
Speaking for Score events, when will survivors get a 3000 Survival score event for all 4 Survivors escaping.
I really don't know why some people seem so against the Hatch race being a common occurrence in most matches.
I honestly think that, unless the two Survivors were together or the last Survivor is literally visible when the 3rd Survivor goes down, that most matches should end in a Hatch race (which the Killer is rewarded for winning the race with the Finisher Mori granting extra BP and the Survivor escapes if he gets lucky and wins the Hatch race). Even the slowest Killers are faster than Survivors by default so the Killer has an innate advantage even if they have no mobility options so it's not like the Killer is at a disadvantage in a Hatch race.
Slugging for the 4k is fun for no one, not even the Killer can say in good faith that he's enjoying leaving someone on the ground for four minutes just to get his 4k/Mori. It's boring for literally everyone involved. It wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't how most games (when the Killer wins) end, a drawn-out waste of time that everyone wants to just skip.
A faster/instant bleedout when in 2v1 was among the most popular suggestions when "anti-slugging" was announced, I honestly do think it would be a good option. I hear some people suggest that, only during 2v1 situations, if one Survivor is downed they gain basekit Unbreakable like 2v8. I think it's a decent suggestion but it's kinda made obsolete by the Abandon feature (which arguably also deals with Survivor hiding forever without progressing the match if the Killer gets bored) and there's still the risk of Survivor weaponizing unhookable setups like during the horrifying basekit Unbreakable PTB that got rejected by the entire community.
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Agreed.
HOWEVER
The system should deactivate if one Survivor is slugged. Nothing should encourage slugging for the 4k.
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Honestly, it's very hard to tell, especially considering how the Anti-go-next and the AFK crow system went (one got killswitched in a matter of days because it was warning/banning people for getting tunneled, the other is overkill and hated by most of the playerbase as it further encourages slugging for the 4k and interferes with totem hunts among many things).
It could be something as harmless and simple as a small upgrade to the basekit BT plus loss of collision.
or
It could be something incredibly overkill like basekit DS, Babysitter, Iron Will and Lucky Break all-in-one after each unhook.
I honestly have difficulty guessing. My best guess (and hope) is collision loss and an upgrade to the basekit BT. As annoying as tunneling is, it's difficult to reduce it without inadvertently making the anti-tunnel system a potential thing to weaponize.
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I mean, it can't go worse than the first time BHVR tried to make DBD enter the Esports scene.
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It's insane & incredible how this thread as evolved (or devolved?) into a battle between @Valuetown and @Emeal that everyone else is just spectating, finding the argument much more entertaining than the already-answered topic.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947889#Comment_3947889
Makes me wonder if the use would drop if they removed the yellow bar. Keep the stats, just change the color.
I honestly think it would drop a tiny bit for a while, maybe some people would replace it with Blast Mine or Botany for the dopamine-inducing blast (I still miss the "boom" sound effect from the Survivor' POV though) or the yellow healing bar.
Quite frankly, without the yellow bar of Deja Vu, most people wouldn't even know if the perk worked at all due to how little time it saves on average (especially since, outside of endgame where it truly shines, there's a good chance you're not on a Deja Vu gen, especially with the new overkill crow system which strongly encourages as much gen time as possible over variety).
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947240#Comment_3947240
I don't see why multiplayer has any effect on if a game should punish a faulty player or not, and In fact Dark souls was multiplayer. Dark souls punishes faulty players by removing souls and DBD now punishes faulty players by removing grade.
You can gain both back by playing more. Seems like completely the same issue, so a comparison seems absolutely usefull.
None of the Souls game ever had a system that punished the player by making them unable to play the game. At worst, it made the game harder/easier and blocked/opened access to various quests/characters.
Dark Souls is not a multiplayer game, not at it's core. You do not need online to play it and finish the main content. You can play it multiplayer but it is not necessary.
DBD is a multiplayer game at its core. Even if you play customs vs bots, the closest thing to a single-player mode in DBD, you still need an online connection to even open the game and you cannot unlock much nor can progress using only customs vs bots. None of the game's content is unlocked via customs vs bots.
A single player game (such as the Souls series) can have a "punishment" system for dying since, at the end of the day, the player made a mistake and died because of it. Said systems are usually disliked even then since it never feels good to be punished further than losing progress (losing your souls can sting but it's expected, but the World/Character Tendency system, for example, is essentially hated by most of the Souls community since it's usually very difficult to deal with unless you play multiplayer, which many people do not wish to do and others don't want to spend the money on).
Now in DBD, said system not only can punish by locking you out of the game, but it can do so just by detecting that you died too quickly for its taste and determined that you tried to die on purpose even if it's wrong.
The video provided is more than enough video evidence even if no ban was issued, since it proves that the system can trigger even if someone was simply bad at the game and/or got hard-tunneled since the streamer got a warning (which is given by the very same parameters as the penalty is given if the system determines that a player tried to "go next"). Imagine how bad it must feel to get tunneled and YOU get a matchmaking penalty from it. How do you think newcomers will react when they encounter this after getting tunneled out quickly since they have no game knowledge yet?
Even without the video proving beyond a doubt that the system is faulty and can detect "going next" attempts despite it not being the case, BHVR killswitched the system. Since you obviously don't trust the playerbase even if hundreds of people are saying the same thing, you surely trust those who made the game right? I mean, even if so many people in the playerbase were not skeptical enough or misinformed, then whatever internal testing BHVR did (after the PTB mind you, since it wasn't active during the PTB) obviously made them learn something that justified the killswitch.
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The 6% speed bonus, while nice, is mostly placebo because yellow bar, it saves like ≈4 seconds on a gen if uninterrupted and not slowed down, and only on 3 specific gens at a time. The 6% shines during the endgame when dealing with the last gen, otherwise Survivors don't always have the luxury of always choosing the generator they want to repair every time.
The new and utterly overkill "Anti-AFK" system effectively pushes player to stick to gens more than ever, so knowing where a few gens are at all times (and coincidentally the 3 most important gens most of the time) is good at preventing undeserved crows that one can gain by failing to find & cleanse totems fast enough even if they sprint the whole time.
Also, Déjà Vu is a starting general perk and we just had a massive influx of new players. Newcomers are far more susceptible to being considered "AFK" due to being lost and not knowing the spawns, knowing gen location is even more important to them.
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Demo's portals, contrary to Springtrap's doors, can be actively used tactically for something else than gen defense and patrol.
You can use them to defend vital totems/know when someone is going somewhere (putting a portal down in basement stairs to know in advance if someone is going into basement for an unhook is diabolical but dangerous). With the right add-ons, it is nearly impossible to cleanse a totem if Demo doesn't want you to, Demo is arguably one of the best user of Devour Hope due to how difficult it can be for Survivors to get rid of it and how much time is wasted trying to get rid of it only to get repeatedly interrupted.
Portals can be destroyed, sure, but it takes a while (especially with certain add-ons) and wastes even more Survivor time if they want to get rid of a portal that's in a dangerous spot, not to mention that it's easily replaced even if they succeed.
Portals are harder to use, but they have more potential uses than Springtrap's doors.
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@TragicSolitude said:
I just played a match as killer. Memeing on the new map. No intention of killing anyone. I hooked one person at four gens left. Then I went off to the other side of the map and put the controller down to do something else, as my meme was over.
I came back, she was still on the hook as they popped the last gen, and then they opened the exit gates as she died. Three people did nothing but sit on gens and then left.
What the actual hell is going on. Thank god BHVR removed 4%ing, otherwise she might've had a chance to get herself off when her teammates literally left her to sit on the hook for over two minutes and die.
I don't get it. I just don't get it. Solo queue really is the most miserable video game experience ever concocted by humans.
People being left to rot on hook is likely to become more common since the utterly overkill "Anti-AFK" system essentially forces Survivors to stick on gens or get crows.
Since you weren't contesting gens, they likely assumed that you were proxy-camping the hook (as camping just outside the range is still very easy and will still almost guarantee at least a trade) and, as such, sneaking to the hook and then waiting for an opportunity to unhook (if the Killer is camping, which they likely thought you were doing) would be too long and crows would give them away anyway.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947048#Comment_3947048
No game should ever have a system that not only kills variety but also actively punishes players for playing unoptimally.
Should a game ever have a system that punishes players for playing Faulty then??? Ever played Dark Souls?
Yes, in fact I've played most souls game (and a few souls-like such as Sekiro and Elden Ring).
And comparing DBD to any Souls game is useless, as their fundamentals are opposites.
The Souls games from Fromsoft are all a single-player experience with multiplayer being effectively optional.
DBD is a multiplayer game with a kind-sorta single player mode in the form of customs vs bots.
Furthermore, all the major "punished if you die" systems that basically require multiplayer in order to deal with them in souls game (World Tendency/soul form, Hollowing to some extent etc.) are disliked by most of the community of those games (especially console players that literally have to pay extra for online multiplayer in order to deal with those systems more easily) which further proves that those systems aren't liked.
The (currently killswitched thankfully) current "Anti-go-next" system not only punishes you if you try to die faster. But it also, as tons of people predicted before it was released, punishes people for simply being bad/new or, even worse, for getting killed too fast.
If you give penalties to people for merely being new or just being hard-tunneled, then there's no surprise if people just drop the game.
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@Emeal said:
Hey, just wanted to ask a question here since I've seen this come up on reddit a few times now.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WYL0J61MPVRP/image.png
They say people are getting banned, for getting crow'ed by the new Crow System, is this true or false?
Additionally some say BHVR are personally saying, that crow'ed players are lying????It sounds MEGA false. But I'm here to check, so bring out the receipts. https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1lfj0xq/video_of_all_4_survivors_being_defeated_causing/
While the "Anti-AFK/Anti-hiding system does affect newcomers even more than regular players (and pushes people to abandon varying playstyles in favor of sticking themselves to gens and simply always running between the nearest gens even during Oni's Rage or if Devour Hope has just revealed itself) the particular video you brought isn't really the crow system being in play, it's the (now killswitched for this exact reason) Anti-go-next system which, due to massively unoptimal plays by a bunch of beginners and being killed quickly, flagged them as having tried to purposefully go next and were hit with a penalty.
No game should ever have a system that not only kills variety but also actively punishes players for playing unoptimally.
As for the "BHVR saying people crow'ed are lying" part, while I don't recall any mods or devs using those exact words on any social platform, despite dozens of people here (likely hundreds if we include other platforms outside of the DBD forum) telling their experience of receiving undeserved crows (and a single crow is enough to remove all possibility of hiding in a rather big radius) despite playing the game and not being afk, BHVR odten responded with a variant of "video evidence of the crows + several minutes before the crows or else there's no telling when/if action will be taken", which can be understood as "despite the countless people saying so, relating their experience and/or their friends' experience, and a handful of videos out there, we can't take action on your feedback in short order with mostly words to support it.".
While it's a stretch, some people could easily take the repeated demand of video evidence over "vocal" feedback as a lack of trust.