Skillfulstone
Skillfulstone
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944046#Comment_3944046
Can you update us on how you and your friends go? I've barely touched survivor lately, just can't enjoy it anymore. I'm reluctant to play it even more because I feel like the moment I get a crow while trying to find a Hex totem it's just gonna be the last straw for me lol
Edit: just saw someone on Reddit got a crow while trying to cleanse Thrill of the Hunt 😂 BHVR must be having a laugh here
Damn, I honestly didn't think about Thrill. But I'll try to keep an up-to-date testing. I'll wait a couple days though since just one or two nights of customs isn't enough (using pubs is not optimal due to 99% of matches being against Springtrap and there are Killers that can weaponize the new crow system.) so I'll come back in a few days.
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Big license.
Chapter that's been asked for years.
Killer-only chapter.
Anti-AFK/Anti-Hiding system is overkill and effectively forces to genrush or get found.
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Why would people play Survivor more than Killer right now?
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How unfortunate to see the feedback on the AFK/Anti-excessive-hiding system wasn't followed-up on at release.
I'll test it out with friends (will need to ask a few beginners to help) but I can already feel the undeserved crows giving Survivors' positions away despite them having valid reasons to not put themselves at risk (waiting out/hiding during Oni Rage/Myers T3, various Exposed perks etc. Avoiding the Terror Radius when injured and/or on 2nd hook, looking for Hex totems that cannot be ignored and aren't in broad daylight, dealing with a tight 3-gen situation while on 2nd hook etc.) Or simply getting lost because of lack of map knowledge & gen/totem spawns.
Hell, I'll miss being able to meme/farm around with friendly Killers/being a friendly Killer and meme with Survivors without having my ears harrassed by crows that won't go away and ruin the mood.
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I mean, map offerings will soon become borderline obsolete.
Only 20% increased chance instead of almost guaranteed.
With the Shroud of Separation soon becoming meta (as it guarantees all 4 Survivors spawning apart instead of together, which is the best outcome for possibly popping 3 gens within the first 90 seconds, especially since the upcoming and utterly overkill new crow system essentially forces Survivors to stay on gens or they get crows) and map offerings having massively reduced effectiveness, there will essentially be no reason to bring map offerings.
So people are using all their offerings since they'll soon be obsolete.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
"dear God"
"There's more..."
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942182#Comment_3942182
There’s no excuse not to play against skull merchant. She’s in bad shape atm.
I assume he's talking about pre-gutting Skull Merchant.
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Not just for custom matches.
It would be great if, when a Killer DCs, they are replaced by a bot instead of ending the match instantly.
We know Killer bots are functional thanks to 2v8.
It would also have the side effect of stopping DCs from robbing Survivors of achievements/hard challenges, as well as making the Killer boredom-quit or ragequit (or a cheater forcing a DC, because yes cheaters can sever your connection and force a DC) no longer a way to end the game.
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MMR is arguably not that bad itself, it's not perfect, sure, but backfilling is the main cause of mismatches since the system will, if a Survivor or Killer leaves the lobby, ignore MMR rating in order to find a replacement quickly and make queues shorter.
Without backfilling, there would be a lot less mismatches.
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@ThatRyanB said:
There have been some great discussions in this thread so far that have highlighted concerns we can keep an eye on (i.e. totem hunts), so thank you for that!
For those of you who had a chance to test this feature on the PTB, did any of you directly encounter scenarios where you received AFK crows, but felt they were unwarranted? If so, I'd love to know the specifics of what you were doing, as this is useful info that we can share with the folks working on this feature.I did, when testing with friends. The most common situations were;
Totem hunts (Already mentioned but still, especially for new players it will be a nightmare, ignoring Devour Hope and Huntress Lullaby is simply not an option, especially for newcomers).
Playing very safe/stealthy when in dire situations (injured and/or on second hook, staying on gens is simply not an option productive to survival, especially in a 3-gen situation).
Waiting out/hiding during extremely dangerous situations (Oni's Rage, Myers tier 3, any kind of proximity to Nurse, Exposed perks like Haunted Ground, Make Your Choice and Starstruck, etc.)
Box hunting against Pinhead (even if knowing the location, it's sometimes very far and, especially if having to not run in order to avoid getting seen, at least one crow would show up and render stealth completely impossible if the Killer passed by).
Sadako when 2 tapes were needed to reduce Condemn to safe levels (the travel time, even ignoring a possible encounter with the Killer or having to stop running, is enough to get at least one crow depending on the map).
If a Killer slugs for the 4k (downs the 3rd Survivor and leaves them slugged in order to search for the 4th without worrying about Hatch and increasing odds of a Finisher Mori, which is the outcome of many games where the Killer wins) the 4th Survivor is essentially forced to either stay on gens or rush to the slugged Survivor, both of these exposing themselves (the latter even more so if done too quickly).
Having to wait for opportunities to do gens safely for more than a few seconds in 3-gen situations (especially against fast Killers) sometimes gave enough points for a crow. This is circumvented by being on comms though.
Side-note: For newcomers who don't know gen spawns, map and totem spawns, crows will be easily gained due to being lost. Especially in some indoor maps. Most of the aforementioned situations are also more severe for newcomers.
Side-note 2: When a rare friendly/farming/memeing Killer showed up, crows would just accumulate when messing around, messing with the mood.
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@KeefCheif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938012#Comment_3938012
I'm honestly not on the PTB so I'm not familiar with the crow AFK changes they've made. Surely it can't be as bad as you're making it seem? If so, I think you should start another discussion aimed specifically at these issues.
Others have already done it, and quite frankly at that point unless most of the playerbase rallies loudly against a change, then it'll probably go through anyway (just look at the useless rarity change, no one ever asked for this, it doesn't add anything of value to the game and is just annoying to veteran players and messes up tutorial videos using the original rarity colors, and almost everyone either hates it or doesn't care, even after people pointed out the blue & purple can be confusing for people with colorblindness they still did it) since FNAF essentially muffled any other complaints due to sheer hype of Springtrap.
All I can hope for is that BHVR actually paid attention and have enough insight to realize that it's a bad idea which effectively removes stealthy playstyles from the game entirely and forces people to be efficient on gens in order to not get crows (as even a single crow is enough to make hiding impossible due to the noise it makes in a pretty impressive range). Not only does it kill stealth and punishes people for doing anything else than gens, but it also simply punishes being new at the game.
I'm sad to say this, but if they don't remove most of the new system and the new players all go away since they can't learn anything, then all I'll say is "told you so". No game should ever actively punish people for not playing efficiently (beyond just losing the match of course) and a game with hundreds of perks shouldn't force it's players to only play a certain way.
Removing collision after 3 crows are gained is perfect, making items pick up/dropping not stopping crows is also great, literally everything else shouldn't go through, the current system is mostly fine.
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If BHVR doesn't revert most of their "Anti-AFK/Anti-hiding" system it'll be even worse for new Survivors.
Don't know the map and gen locations? Get crows and get found.
Devour Hope in play? No no you can't stop gens to search for the totem and if you don't know the spawns (or if the Hex RNG smiled to the Killer and it's well-hidden) then you'll get crows and get found.
Hear Oni's Rage start? No you can't stop gens and hide to wait it out because you'll get crows and get found since he can sweep most maps in seconds.
Injured and on 2nd Hook? No you can't play too safe and settle for unhooks otherwise you'll get crows. Even worse if in a 3-gen situation.
If BHVR doesn't scrap everything from the PTB Anti-AFK/Anti-hiding system except for the collision loss and making item dropping/picking up no longer stopping crows, then it's going to make the Survivor experience just awful, but it'll be so much worse for newcomers.
Hell, won't even be able to meme/farm with a friendly Killer in peace since you'll get crows that will never go away even if you run around.
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After playing the PTB more to test stuff with friends, and reading/watching other people's experience, I really think the new tweaks to the "Anti-AFK" system are overkill and can easily affect normal gameplay.
The reason why people asked for a look at an anti excessive hiding method was to deal with situations when, in endgame, two people would hide forever. Essentially forcing interactions to prevent getting crows no matter if you run/do totems/stealth between gens is putting unnecessary pressure. Even a single crow, due to the sound it makes in an impressive range, essentially makes hiding impossible if the Killer happens to be walking by.
All the AFK crow system needed to be perfect was;
Remove collision for a few seconds when 3 crows are accumulated.
Dropping/picking up objects doesn't stop crows (Survivors need to move around at the very least, which prevents sitting still in a corner dropping items forever).
Otherwise keep the current system.
Like, after a bit of testing with friends, a Killer running a totem build (or just getting lucky and have a well-hidden Hex that can't be ignored like Devour Hope) literally forces Survivors to ignore the very dangerous totem and stick to gens in order to not get crows (and revealing themselves despite not being AFK and playing the game, doing something important) because the totem isn't in broad daylight. In such situations, and depending on the map, it's normal and even recommended to stop doing gens until the major threat is removed, and it can sometimes easily take more than a minute or two if you don't run everywhere while searching in order to avoid the Killer.
I'm all for an anti-excessive hiding system, no one wants to waste minutes at the end but this is going overboard.
Merely making item dropping/picking up and maybe increase the amount of movement needed to prevent crows would have been perfect to take care of the issue without affecting regular gameplay.
Don't get me wrong, the collision removal was a magnificent addition, completely removing hostage-taking by bodyblock in one move. But the rest went too far.
Side-note: it's also pretty annoying when trying to meme/farm with a friendly Killer and eventually (takes longer than normal but still) getting crows that will never go away until stopping to do a gen, kinda kills the mood.
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@Lexilogo said:
I think you missed this one:
FIERY PASSION-
Your devotion to your work ensures that even if you fail, you can still find a way to succeed.
If the Trial ends with 2/3/4 or fewer Survivors having escaped, Fiery Passion activates.
While Fiery Passion is active, being sufficiently toxic in postgame chat will retroactively Sacrifice all escaped Survivors.
You see @Gh0st2317, THIS is good satire, this is funny because everyone knows it's nonsense.
In all seriousness, it got a laugh out of me XD
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@Gh0st2317 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935471#Comment_3935471
I'm silently hoping it's satire tbh...
Me too, those are literally the worst perk ideas I've ever read on this forum that wasn't obviously satire/sarcastic.
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I'm honestly not quite sure if this is satire or not. This can't be real.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934159#Comment_3934159
I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're drawing here with the finisher mori in particular.
If the finisher mori isn't available when the last survivor is in the dying state, doesn't that just mean you don't get to mori them…? I truly don't understand what you're attempting to convey, legitimately.
Ok I'll elaborate.
The Finisher Mori (as it is now) incentivizes slugging for the 4k to get the free endgame Mori (especially for newer players who haven't seen every Mori animations countless times yet and haven't gotten tired of them, those are the kind of players that will flood live servers when the FNAF chapter comes to live) and it often results in one person bleeding out on the ground for ages until either the Killer finds & downs the last Survivor or 4 minutes pass and they die of bleedout, it's one of the most boring way to end a game possible and wastes everyone's time.
The new (PTB) change speeds up the process…but only if the 3rd Survivor is on hook and on 2nd stage, which means that slugging for the 4k is still not addressed and the most common thing is not tackled. People get slugged for the 4k way more often than getting hooked if the Killer wants the Mori or wants to win at any cost (circumventing Hatch entirely). It's gotten so bad that there's threads asking for a way to skip the Finisher Mori and/or for a way to bleedout faster.
It wouldn't be that hard to keep the Finisher Mori but make it into something healthy that rewards those that don't slug for the 4k and win the Hatch race without removing 4k slugging for those that merely want to secure the win/Adept: The Finisher Mori only becomes available if the last Survivor is on their feet (healthy or injured or Plot-Twisting, that last one is to prevent from trying to purposefully deny the Mori by using the perk right before the other dies) when the second-to-last Survivor dies by sacrifice, by unique Mori (NOT by bleedout) or escapes. Succeeding would grant extra BP for the extra steps and Hatch risk.
Making the Mori available when the 3rd Survivor is on hook and on 2nd stage basically changes nothing. People who want the Mori will still slug for the 4k (as it will still grant more time than hooking, even with the "Go Next prevention", which I fear may backfire with false positives) and everyone will still waste 4 minutes of their time. The goal isn't to remove things, it's to make things healthier and mitigate frustrating situations.
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Most of the changes are good. However there are mistakes that were made;
Why oh why did you change the Finisher Mori like this?! The core issue with the Finisher Mori was that it incentivizes slugging for the 4k (slugging the 3rd Survivor before searching for the last, often leading to a player twiddling their thumbs until they bled out). This change does nothing to address that.
This was the perfect occasion to make the Finisher Mori healthy by making it only available if the 4th Survivor was alive and healthy or injured (NOT in the Dying State) when the 3rd Survivor died by sacrifice OR died by Mori OR escapes. This would encourage people to engage with the Hatch race if they want a climactic Finisher Mori but wouldn't prevent people who are playing more competitively (or doing Adepts/challenges requiring 4k) from securing a 4k more easily.
The Go Next Prevention...It's too early to tell, but I'm wary of potential false positives. Does getting tunnelled count as "dying early on purpose"? Does accidentally running into the Killer just after getting off the hook (due to stealth or simply inexperience) and getting hooked again count as trying to go next? Will giving Hatch to your teammate count as going next? Details would be appreciated.
Holding unhooking yourself off a hook behind perks and offerings will remove so many memorable clutch moments in endgame...
The new DC penalty decay method, now based on completed matches rather than time, is rather unclear on what makes a match "complete". Does using the "Abandon" mechanic count as a full match? If the server crashes (a very real concern when the tsunami of new players join the live servers for FNAF) does it count as a DC? Again, details would be appreciated.
The AFK crows collision loss is great, a long-time coming just like the gamma settings but still a great thing.
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Ranked" and "Casual" Queues cannot exist for one simple reason: they would become meaningless in short order and in the end nothing good would come of it.
DBD has a very aggressive and competitive playerbase which is notorious for exploiting every scrap of edge they can get to make the "other side" miserable (go watch "The Downfall of bully squads" from Ardetha on Youtube, very interesting watch).
If Queues were separate, not only would that make queue time longer but it would also cease to function shortly when good players start going against other players that can match or surpass them on the regular, and what do you think will happen then?
Former "ranked" players, after getting beaten too many times or simply wanting easy stomps, will go to the "casual" queue and start to steamroll people meming around or bringing unoptimal builds, which would make "ranked" queue times even longer which would make even less people play it and so on and so forth until only a handful of comp players remain in the "ranked" queue out of principle and the rest of the playerbase is playing casual queue in order to hope for a game where they don't sweat, returning us to the current situation.
As unbalanced as the game can be, splitting queues won't fix anything, better to work on fixing the bad things instead of further dividing an already split community. Leave rule enforcing to tournaments.
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While the Legion & Oni combo annoys me, there's at least one good thing that came out of 2v8 for the Survivor side;
The new "quest" system is a grindy mess, but 2v8 considerably speeds up the Survivor Milestone challenges as overall escapes are higher (with 3 Hatches spawning at 2 Survivors remaining giving a chance at escape even if the whole team gives up and throws because of Legion) and overall heals & gen repair per game will be much higher as well.
As there's no real point for me to play Killer 2v8 unless one of my friends happen to play at the same time and we duo (I have like 3-4 hours to play during work days if I do nothing else, that's only around 10 games just in queue time alone without adding the time actually playing. As Survivor I can easily quadruple that number since there's a good chance I won't even stay in a trial for it's whole duration and dying still counts as completing a trial) it helps me go through the most grindy challenges which would normally require me to lock in permanently to have a chance to do in time instead of still having some chill fun after work.
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Killer bots in 2v8 exists because Killer queue is ≈20 minutes and whether it's for a legit reason or not, if the game ended when one of the two Killer DCed, then it would just piss off the other player who waited almost half an hour for nothing.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928962#Comment_3928962
Was on Ormand the snow lodge map with legion as the other killer.
Damn, thought we crossed paths because this exact thing happened to me, Wesker and the Survivor (who became a bot) got stuck so Birkin had to 1v8. I spectated and the match only ended when Wesker became a bot, poor Birkin was trying all he could to unstuck Wesker.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I saw this last night. Wesker had someone stuck on their shoulder, so they just DC'ed. The bot that took over then just stood there not even moving for the rest of the match. This forced the remaining killer to do 1 v 8. Attempting to blind the killer to have the survivor get dropped did NOT work. In the end, everyone else escaped, but I stayed in to allow the remaining killer to get a kill. However, after spectating, the end game collapse eventually ran out of time, but the game didn't come to a close. It just effectively kept the match going even well after the end game collapse finished. The game only ended once the remaining killer player DC'ed. This gave the survivor stuck on the shoulder escape credit.
By any chance, did this happen on R.P.D. and was Blight (with birkin skin) the other Killer?
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I really don't understand why Nemesis of all Killers seems to just gain bugs everytime another is fixed. Like, most of the Killer roster has a far more complex power than him.
At least BHVR usually fix him in a patch or two but still.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926883#Comment_3926883
So how do we help stabilize the matchmaking and the backfilling? The community won't tolerate longer queues, and seem dead against not being able to dodge either.
Honestly, I think there's no easy answer to that. Because, due to DBD's nature as a multiplayer assym with no real single-player mode to speak of (Custom Bots are the closest, but you need online to even open the game in the first place anyway), most people who play are just playing it to relax after their work days. It's why most Survivors and most Killers are in the "Average MMR" bracket, most people simply don't care about getting cracked at the game.
Removing leaving lobby is just not an option, there are legit reasons to leave a lobby before the game starts (a friend wants to play and you accept the invite, something irl comes up, you see a player name which you know is a hacker/griefer etc.) and punishing people for this would just be unfair. Lobby dodging for easier lobbies has drastically went down since Prestige was removed, now it's either for petty reasons or for legit reasons.
I do however think that the game could make it's "looking for another player" period just a tad longer after someone quits (like 1 more minute before it starts to broaden it's search, nothing deal-breaking but enough to reduce mismatches a bit, it's with a bunch of tiny things that you do great things).
I honestly don't know what else could be done except tweaking the "High MMR" bracket to further put the god players together and reducing mismatches. Maybe have MMR increase be diminished for SWF (as escaping in a 4-man is much easier, however it has a tendency to catapult beginners into inappropriate MMR due to being carried by experienced/high MMR teammates).
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Hot take, but I kinda get where OP is coming from even if it goes completely against a competitive mindset.
Let's be honest, for the casual player (most of the playerbase) having to lock in every games (in either role) is just not fun after a while, sure the occasional tough match is nice but no casual player wants to have to play their best at all times.
For Killer, using hooks as MMR measure would immediately create an intense slugging increase (especially for people on winstreaks or similar stuff) to tank their MMR but still not only get 4ks, but get the most boring way to 4k in existence. Team-slugging/team-bleedouts would literally become an official win condition without increasing MMR to eventually go against Survivors that can handle it!
For Survivors, sure this would send god loopers in the same batch (although backfilling would still mess it up) but this would also considerably slow (or even stop entirely) gen-jockeys and altruists that just can't loop very well and go down quick but are good otherwise from climbing the ladder. Those people would get stuck getting bled out constantly and would be going against skilled Killers but would never improve.
This would also send average but friendly Killers (max bp for everyone, memeing, 2 hooks but 0 kills etc. Those are basically just people who wanna chill and relax, casual players by definition) against comp-level players that just won't play along so those Killers will either tank their MMR purposefully (by slugging everyone to death) or will just start to have less fun since they can't really chill anymore.
I honestly believe that backfilling is the core reason why MMR mismatches are so common.
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I'm honestly wary of all those "anti-something" mechanics, Especially the anti-tunnel and anti-go next. There's many ways false positives could happen. BHVR also mentioned that the mechanic would cover people running to the Killer to get hooked again;
What if there's only 2 Survivors left and one is hooked? The Survivor can no longer die on hook to give a chance at Hatch to their teammate or else they are punished? Dying on hook to give a chance at Hatch is arguably the right play in that situation.
What if a recently-unhooked Survivor accidentally runs into a stealth Killer and gets hooked again? Are they punished? Is the Killer punished for "tunnelling"?
What if the Killer tunnels after going back to hook? Does this count as "running to the Killer" for Survivors?
What if a hacker forces Survivors to die on 1st hook (because yes they can do that)? Are Survivors punished?
What if people don't want to play with/against a cheater? They are now forced to deal with it? Cheaters can literally bypass server-closing time!
If hackers can make people lose entire grades/give penalties at-will then what's next?
As sad as it is, I don't think punishing is the way to go. I genuinely believe that rewarding players for sticking out the match/not tunnelling is healthier than punishing. I don't know why, but BHVR seems to forget that the carrot can sometimes get better results (and have less workarounds) than the stick, not to mention receive far less complaints.
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As much as a system banning/punishing farming M1 bots sounds good on paper, it would backfire. There's too many possibilities of false-positives (which is why I very much doubt the upcoming "anti-tunnel" mechanic will work without greatly affecting normal gameplay).
Look at all the compilations of people managing 5-gen chases and/or 4-escape with 0 injuries, should Killers be punished for being worse than the Survivors? Adding even more frustration to a massive MMR mismatch by punishing a player wouldn't look good.
There's also the very real possibility of hackers using this to punish players by freezing other players (yes thats a thing they can do). It's also why the upcoming "anti-go-next" mechanic might be a hacker's dream if poorly-implemented since they can force players to die on 1st hook.
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For me it's also the fact that, for both roles, it actively encourages running only meta stuff (since, so far, "quests" of all kinds are generic stuff that don't really require specific perks but are just very grindy) and, more importantly, it encourages sweating for the wins on both sides to advance the milestone challenges fast enough to have a shot at finishing the Rift with time to spare (as shards through normal gameplay has been drastically reduced and is also no longer displayed for some unknown reason).
Killers will play more aggressively to get more kills per game, Survivors will disregard their teammates & side objective to focus doing even more gens in order to escape more and do more gens per game. I've been left to die on first hook, and saw Survivors leave one of their teammates to die on first hook as Killer, more often in the last week than the previous year.
Side-note, I already disliked the "Anti-3-gen", I think it does more than it's supposed to and also makes a few perks (and perk combos even more so) downright detrimental to use, and is unfortunate to friendly farming Killers (a dash of wholesomeness in a sea of sweat and toxicity) but with needing to explode gens 100+ times, the "Anti-3-gen" is straight up limiting progress on that quest per game XD.
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@k3ijus said:
im not sure what your point in
Your mad your being killed by a mori thats unique to every killer instead of being slugged to death or seeing the most repetitive hook animation..?
To be fair, by that point everyone has seen every Mori animations dozens of time and most people are sick of them. The novelty has gone away since now there's a Mori in most games.
I'm honestly not sure I've seen a single game not end in an abandon when the last Survivor gets downed/Moried, lots of people are just bored of Mori animations now and getting slugged by the Killer for several minutes because they want their Mori and don't want to risk a Hatch race.
The Finisher Mori had a lot more negative repercussions than good ones.
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Now I'm thinking about The Slayer as either a standalone Killer or a skin for Demo XD
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Ah yes, the Killer with no map mobility or Haste, no reliable info or consistent slowdown (zombies are very buggy and unreliable at best with no basekit way to somewhat control their spawn location/movements which often leads to zombies walking into an empty corner of the map being useless the entire trial, they are also made irrelevant by flashlights and are now the only element of a Killer's power that is directly countered by an item in the game), a telegraphed mid-range attack that can shred pallets and a good range BUT cannot do so from the start of the game and must be built up so eventually the range and pallet-shredding kicks-in AND needs 3 hits to down if the Survivors aren't already infected...needs a nerf.
Nemesis is a Killer which is little more than an M1 Killer unless he gets tier 3 quickly (ironically, if Survivors aren't confident in their ability to avoid the whip/hide, they can "starve" the Nemesis by letting a zombie hit them which infects but doesn't even injure at first, to drastically reduce the amount of mutation gained from tentacle hits at the cost of actually getting injured by the tentacle) and the zombies can even be used as bodyblockers in tight spaces/doorways as the zombies not only lose collision with a Survivor after a hit but don't lose collision with the Nemesis and give the Survivor (if they injure) a speed boost, forcing the Nemesis to waste even more precious time killing the zombie. It's also surprisingly tricky to hit a Survivor with the tentacle if they are too close.
Nemesis is also the 2nd biggest Killer in the game after Xeno Queen (but since Xeno Queen is a skin and is crawling most of the time it's debatable) which makes him visible over most loops and loudly stomps around, making surprise attacks very difficult against semi-aware Survivors.
It's true that in tier 3, the tentacle is powerful with a deceptively long range. However until tier 3, Nemesis is really nothing special and if DBD had (official and extensive) good tutorials in-game (not on Youtube) to play against/as every Killers then more people would know all the ways to work around his power and even use his own power against him sometimes.
I honestly would be inclined to agree to maybe give a tiny range nerf to tier 3...only if it was like that from the start with no way for the Survivors to massively delay access to tier 3. Nenesis already has a lot of counterplay (arguably more than most Killers since his own power can be turned against him and half of his power is unreliable in the first place and can be neutralized by flashlights) and really isn't currently problematic, if anything he needs a couple of utterly useless add-ons reworked and some kind of basekit way to direct/unstuck the zombies (maybe a map-wide roar that draws zombies to his current location or something?).
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I honestly would love Insidious to get a much needed rework to make it healthier (good for something else than camping) and overall more versatile by making it a stealth version of Lethal Pursuer.
At the beginning of the trial, you are Undetectable for 60 seconds or until you put a Survivor into the dying state.
Any time you are Undetectable, the effect lingers for an additional 10 seconds.
So many old perks desperately need reworks/buffs to make them in line with the current state of DBD…
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A simple cap to Haste (which would be circumvented by exhaustion perks) in order to avoid extreme situations where a Survivor can be faster than the Killer long-term would be enough. And that would still allow buffs to Haste perks which are really weak (Dark Theory for example) and open the door to new perks without limiting perk options too much.
By removing stacking entirely BHVR would not only have set themselves up for a lot of resources and time spent reworking/buffing a whole bunch of perks but this would also reduce variety as a whole.
People who want Haste would just pick the best Haste perk (at the moment) and never touch the others instead of using wacky but fun and off-meta perks. We don't need anything else encouraging people to only run meta stuff.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443826/stupid-idling-dr-killer
The developers announced in their QoL Update they will address AFK bots within the first phase of it. Therefore, the next chapter might has a solution for this.
There needs to be caution though. With MMR being what it is, it's not unheard of, although exceedingly rare, to have games where the Killer gets 0 hooks/injuries for most (if not all) of the trial (the veterans will remember the match that accelerated the removal of insta-blinds. Or even just very skilled people getting 5-gen chases once in a while. Not to mention hackers who can give themselves and others God Mode for hostage-taking).
Whatever countermeasure BHVR is cooking, it cannot be based on damage/hooks since being completely outmatched or against a hacker(s), the latter being a much more likely possibility, shouldn't be punished.
It's already scary enough that there's no details about the "go next" prevention (something that could easily lead to false positives, and unwarranted punishment, if not handled correctly) we don't need people being punished for simply being outmatched or facing a cheater.
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It's really weird to me that they are setting themselves up to spend a lot of time & ressources buffing/reworking a whole bunch of perks and add-ons by removing Haste/Hinder stacking (reducing variety and indirectly nerfing a few Killers) instead of just putting a cap to Haste (like 8% for Survivors, for example, in order to keep Haste strong without making Survivors able to outright be faster than the Killer, even more so for 110% Killers. 8% Haste without time limit/exhaustion is still very strong even if it requires more than one perk & setup) that only Killer powers, exhaustion perks & add-ons can circumvent (to preserve perk & add-on variety as much as possible, leave Killer powers alone and still allow buffs to weaker perks & open the doors for future Haste perks without worrying about stacking creating problems).
We know that making effects not stack on a perk-to-perk basis is possible, so some very strong Haste perks could simply have that caveat if their effect are judged too strong if not just on their own.
Putting a simple cap would remove so much work and negative consequences on variety (not to mention significantly mitigate negative reactions, if the forums/YT/Reddit are to be believed) that it baffles me that it wasn't the first attempt to fix the issue.
Removing stacking not only hurts variety & hurts certain Killers, but also severely limits the future of potential new Killers with Haste/Hinder as a component in their kit (like currently Clown, Wesker, Singu and Trapper to name a few even without any add-ons). It'll just make things more complicated and costly long-term.
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It's concerning for the game as a whole to have such an approach to balance and this is beyond worrying for the future of perks in dbd.
Are they going to stop with haste or are they going to overall delete the very concept of perk synergy? Are we eventually going to only be allowed one Haste/Hinder perk, one gen regression/speed perk, one chase perk and one stealth perk? This would hurt build freedom a lot.
The kick limit already does a tiny bit of that since Eruption just can't be used with Surge if you don't want to accidentally hit the limit in record time and suddenly have a gen that you're basically forced to concede.
Even if they stopped there, it's still unhealthy, they're going to absolutely have to greatly buff these perks for those to be useful at all. By doing so Killers will essentially have easy access to large haste effects and while limited at one, it will still take only one perk slot. While Survivors will lose a whole niche kind of build, further reinforcing the "use only meta perks" trend and making the game more stale instead of having fun creating a "zooming" build that has like 3 different caveats to even work and requires at least 3 perks.
The fact that (presumably) perks wouldn't even stack with the various basekit Haste/Hinder that certain Killers have is even more limiting (I already hear Clown and Wraith crying in a corner, tons of add-ons invalidating perks and Wesker's infection officially being worthless with any Hinder perks) since that's an entire segment of a Killer's power that's made useless by a perk, why not play a stronger Killer and bring the same perk at that point? Killers shouldn't have part of their kit entirely invalidated by a category of perks, it's enough that some perks simply don't work together or can backfire.
A simple cap to Haste in order to avoid extreme situations where a Survivor can be faster than the Killer would be enough. And that would still allow buffs to Haste perks which are really weak (Dark Theory for example) and open the door to new perks without limiting perk options too much.
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It's concerning for the game as a whole to have such an approach to balance and this is beyond worrying for the future of perks in dbd.
Are they going to stop with haste or are they going to overall delete the very concept of perk synergy? Are we eventually going to only be allowed one Haste/Hinder perk, one gen regression/speed perk, one chase perk and one stealth perk? This would hurt build freedom a lot.
The kick limit already does a tiny bit of that since Eruption just can't be used with Surge if you don't want to accidentally hit the limit in record time and suddenly have a gen that you're basically forced to concede.
Even if they stopped there, it's still unhealthy, they're going to absolutely have to greatly buff these perks for those to be useful at all. By doing so Killers will essentially have easy access to large haste effects and while limited at one, it will still take only one perk slot. While Survivors will lose a whole niche kind of build, further reinforcing the "use only meta perks" trend and making the game more stale.
The fact that (presumably) perks wouldn't even stack with the various basekit Haste/Hinder that certain Killers have is even more limiting (I already hear Clown and Wraith crying in a corner, tons of add-ons invalidating perks and Wesker's infection officially being worthless with any Hinder perks) since that's an entire segment of a Killer's power that's made useless by a perk, why not play a stronger Killer and bring the same perk at that point? Killers shouldn't have part of their kit entirely invalidated by a category of perks, it's enough that some perks simply don't work together or can backfire.
A simple cap to Haste in order to avoid extreme situations where a Survivor can be faster than the Killer would be enough. And that would still allow buffs to Haste perks which are really weak (Dark Theory for example) and open the door to new perks without limiting perk options too much.
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It's concerning for the game as a whole to have such an approach to balance and this is beyond worrying for the future of perks in dbd.
Are they going to stop with haste or are they going to overall delete the very concept of perk synergy? Are we eventually going to only be allowed one Haste/Hinder perk, one gen regression/speed perk, one chase perk and one stealth perk? This would hurt build freedom a lot.
The kick limit already does a tiny bit of that since Eruption just can't be used with Surge if you don't want to accidentally hit the limit in record time and suddenly have a gen that you're basically forced to concede.
Even if they stopped there, it's still unhealthy, they're going to absolutely have to greatly buff these perks for those to be useful at all. By doing so Killers will essentially have easy access to large haste effects and while limited at one, it will still take only one perk slot. While Survivors will lose a whole niche kind of build, further reinforcing the "use only meta perks" trend and making the game more stale.
The fact that (presumably) perks wouldn't even stack with the various basekit Haste/Hinder that certain Killers have is even more limiting (I already hear Clown and Wraith crying in a corner, tons of add-ons invalidating perks and Wesker's infection officially being worthless with any Hinder perks) since that's an entire segment of a Killer's power that's made useless by a perk, why not play a stronger Killer and bring the same perk at that point? Killers shouldn't have part of their kit entirely invalidated by a category of perks, it's enough that some perks simply don't work together or can backfire.
A simple cap to Haste in order to avoid extreme situations where a Survivor can be faster than the Killer would be enough. And that would still allow buffs to Haste perks which are really weak (Dark Theory for example) and open the door to new perks without limiting perk options too much.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911527#Comment_3911527
So I understand your point correctly. You agree with me that there's nothing inherently wrong with slugging, and that the hate is just basically trauma from other people doing it to be toxic and them assuming that's what I'm doing? You'd also agree that them being left on the ground by teammates because of lack of urgency is their teams fault, not the killers?
If i understand you correctly it seems you basically agree with me then that slugging isn't toxic/bad/boring and it's just people carrying their trauma forward and assuming ill intent.
Thank you for the cordial conversation btw.
Yes, slugging itself isn't bad, people hate it mostly because of how it's being used for years and how common it is ("trauma" might be a big word though).
I won't lie and say I don't find it boring if the Killer just leaves me there and doesn't come back, strategic reasons or not, but if there's obviously other Survivors nearby or if there's another reason why (1-2 gens left and I went down far from them, hook got saboed, someone else previously used DS and it made him overly cautious etc.) then it makes sense to not let themselves be vulnerable to a potential save (to think otherwise is illogical) and at the very least chase them away. But if there's no BM going on and I eventually get hooked then I don't really mind. I quite frankly don't care that much about the outcome of a match as long as I got to actually play the game longer than the time I waited in lobby XD
I try to stay cordial and keep a mostly impartial point of view in the forums, I see too many threads devolve into "Us vs Them" and long-distance shouting matches rather than actual conversations.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911457#Comment_3911457
"which means you'll likely spend ≈2 minutes (120 seconds passes a lot slower than it sounds) on the ground twiddling your thumbs."
How's that different though than 2minutes spent on a hook, twiddling thumbs?
"If hooked, sure you can't do anything (although Kindred can give you some value even if hooked) but unless you're left to die then it's likely you'll be off the hook and back in the game in half that time or less (depending on the Killer's camping habit)."
I mean if they were going to rescue you that fast off hook, you'd be rescued that fast off the ground, no difference.
"The very common occurence of getting "WSed" on the ground. Even if hooked shortly after (which is not the case most of the time) it's annoying and spiteful for no reason (sometimes I assume it's because the Killer got absolutely destroyed in their previous game and is taking it out on random people with no link to it whatsoever) and unlike t-bagging at the gate (which is just as useless and spiteful but can be either ignored or forced out) there is nothing you can do about it."
Well my example is just slugging, not being toxic WS'ing them on the ground. That's something entirely different and a completely different conversation.
"The fact that, since the short-sighted Finisher Mori was implemented without caveats, there is an almost guaranteed chance that being the last slug will result in the Killer waiting over you until everyone else is dead (oftentimes with a little "WS" during the wait) to do a Mori which everyone hates by now since everyone has seen them dozens of times now and almost feels more like a form of BM and yet another reason why the game won't end more than like a cool cutscene that wasn't common like before."
Again, WS'ing is an entirely different topic than what I'm talking about. I'm talking about slugging in the game, not end game for a mori.
"Slugging for the 4k and getting bled out for 4 minutes (one does not exclude the other) happens way more often than getting slugged for a bit then hooked when it's safe to do so. Sometimes it's even not intentional and someone bleeds out because the Killer couldn't find them again, but the "why" matters little here. Props to you for not dragging the match on but that is not the average conclusion to getting slugged."
Getting bled out with 4 of you on the ground is extremely rare. FAR from average conclusion. So rare it isn't even worth mentioning imo. However as I stated in my original post, this is again a completely different topic than what I'm talking about. I said excluding this in the note. The "why" also matters significantly. If you died from bleeding out just because your team left you there then that's your teams fault, not the killer. That's like blaming the killer when he's not at the hook and your team leaves you on the hook to die.
"People wouldn't complain so much about slugging if it wasn't so common and if it wasn't often used more as a form of BM than an actual strategy, especially since the Finisher Mori which made slugging for the 4k even more common than it already was. No one cares if the Killer takes a few seconds to look around for a possible flashlight/pallet saver, that's not the kind of slugging people dislike and want gone."
I completely disagree. The vast majority of the time slugging is not for BM'ing. The majority of the games that I slug they say that I'm "BM'ing" or trying to be toxic when I'm not. So when people "say" it's mostly to BM, their "interpretations" of the killers intentions in my experience is the majority of the time just wrong. Them thinking it's to BM and it actually being BM are two different things.
"No one cares if the Killer takes a few seconds to look around for a possible flashlight/pallet saver, that's not the kind of slugging people dislike and want gone."
Right, and I'm still asking why them just slugging as a strategy is toxic/bad/boring? Let's even assume a more extreme example. Not for a few seconds. They go into the match never planning to hook anyone. What's the problem with that? Again, assuming no bm'ing or leaving people to bleed out once he gets them.
"Hell, I don't think I've seen a single game since the surrender mechanic that didn't end with at least one bot (since even if not slugged for the 4k, the last Survivor will instantly use the surrender mechanic if/when downed just to not have to see the Mori if they lose the Hatch race). That's how sick of 4k slugging and Mori animations people are."
I don't think that has anything to do with being sick of 4k slugging or mori animations. It's ego and just wanting to move on to the next match as fast as possible.
When I say "Slugging for the 4k" or "4k slugging" I mean the extremely popular action of downing the 3rd Survivor (after killing the first 2) to bypass Hatch entirely and either hook the 4th then go back to the 3rd OR just wait over the one with most Bleedout timer. Unless the Survivor on hook lets themselves die or was already on 2nd hook, then both outcomes lead to minutes of wasted time ending in a bleedout and/or an inevitable Mori (which is why people immediately use the "Abandon" option, to bypass both of those things).
"Team-slugging" and "slugging for the 4k" mean different things for me so my bad ^^'
I'm aware that team-slugging is pretty rare (and since Knockout is gone it's now even tougher, and it's honestly a good thing because old Knockout was basically just an anti-SoloQ perk) but slugging for the 4k happens basically every games that the Killer wins and at least one person will spend ages just waiting on the ground for the inevitable Mori.
You say that "WSing", slugging for the 4k and team-slugging aren't important in this conversation…but they are relevant since they are the primary reason why people hate slugging in general. If everybody played like you since day 1 of the game's existence, people wouldn't care nearly as much about slugging since they wouldn't have to deal with all the annoying kinds of slugging on a regular basis, only with the limited slugging with a strategy in mind (mind you, team-slugging no matter the intent is still boring and unless the Survivors are really bad and/or you are miles better than them then there's no way at least one Survivor isn't bleeding out on the ground after 4 minutes of boredom and wasted time since slugging an entire team within 4 minutes is a feat unless the Survivors really mess up….or you are playing Nurse before her Blink attack became a special attack) and it would be likely acknowledged as a boring yet valid strategy and not as something that justifies creating entirely new mechanics (which will inevitably create other issues and people will find ways to work around them anyway) to circumvent it, anti-slug perks would be more than enough.
Furthermore, the "why" people bled out doesn't really matter as for their reaction to it (you can't tell me you've never lost a slug that crawled away after downing several Survivors and they just bled out somewhere while you were frantically scouring the map looking for them, it happened to all of us) it is just as boring for the Survivor either way (in fact some Survivors will purposefully try to hide as a slug to spite the Killer by wasting the maximum amount of their time too, it's petty but it does happen), the only variable here is the addition of BMing (but we already established that you're talking about non-BMing slugging) but whether you meant to bleed them out or not doesn't really matter to the Survivor (especially since they have no real way to know for sure unless it is said during post-game chat/through messages).
Most people hate slugging because they had to deal with the annoying kind of slugging for years and it only got worse over time (culminating in the Finisher Mori which cemented almost every lost trials ending with one Survivor getting slugged waiting to be Moried). You can't have a conversation about why people hate slugging without including the bad kind of slugging since it's the core reason why all forms of slugging is hated and BHVR had to create a way for Survivors to dip without penalty when the remaining Survivor(s) are downed.
If slugging for the 4k, WSing, and team-slugging didn't exist or were all extremely rare, the "Surrender" mechanic would also have no reason to exist and BHVR wouldn't be working on another anti-slug mechanic in the future.
Side-note: There is a lot less pressure to get a slug up than unhooking someone. If someone spends 2 minutes one the ground then they still have 2 minutes before they die so if the Killer doesn't hook and the other Survivors can deal with the Killer then it's really no big deal to leave a slug for a while and do gens instead, if someone spends half of their hook timer on hook and goes to 2nd hook state, well it's a different matter isn't it? Survivors gain nothing by leaving someone to go on 2nd hook unless the Killer (depending on the Killer) is hard-camping and isn't even trying to patrol. In fact leaving a slug on the ground for long enough to do a gen or two if the Killer isn't snowballing is arguably the right play.
Many Survivors won't bother crossing the entire map to get a slug that can crawl their way closer anyway unless the situation is already pretty dire. Especially in SoloQ (which is the vast majority of players) it's not rare to be left on the ground for a while if no healing/anti-slug perks are in play.
You are right that people often assume the reason why they get slugged, and it's because it happens often, many times accompanied by BM, and sometimes out of spite rather than a real strategy. Whether they are right or wrong is of very little importance since console players (most of the playerbase if combined) don't even have access to a post-game chat that the Killer could use to say that it wasn't out of spite unless they happen to play on the same console. Again, I really appreciate that you aren't like that, but that's really not the case for all players, and people also tend to remember the bad things much better and for longer than the good things.
Also keep in mind that the community isn't exactly know for their self-restraint and sportsmanship, remember when they had to remove an entire cosmetic type (Bubba's Survivor masks) because twisted people would use it to target specific people? I've gotten more slurs, DDOS threats, physical threats and other kinds of bad "wishes" playing this game while actively going for 12 hooks than in any of the hundreds of other game's I've played combined. It's also very possible that the Survivor throwing those accusation just got out of a game that ended in a similar fashion (as slugging for the 4k is insanely common) and they are lashing out.
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Well, it mostly comes down to a few things;
The sheer time (assuming no Unbreakable or Boon Exponential) that will likely be spent on the ground is just annoying. If the Killer isn't on the stronger end of the spectrum (able to team-down quickly) and/or your teammates actually do gens and are half-decent at chase then there is little incentive to get you up in a timely manner, which means you'll likely spend ≈2 minutes (120 seconds passes a lot slower than it sounds) on the ground twiddling your thumbs. Crawling to your teammates might draw the Killer to them and is not exactly a good idea unless the exact location/status of the Killer is known. If hooked, sure you can't do anything (although Kindred can give you some value even if hooked) but unless you're left to die then it's likely you'll be off the hook and back in the game in half that time or less (depending on the Killer's camping habit).
The very common occurence of getting "WSed" on the ground. Even if hooked shortly after (which is not the case most of the time) it's annoying and spiteful for no reason (sometimes I assume it's because the Killer got absolutely destroyed in their previous game and is taking it out on random people with no link to it whatsoever) and unlike t-bagging at the gate (which is just as useless and spiteful but can be either ignored or forced out) there is nothing you can do about it.
The fact that, since the short-sighted Finisher Mori was implemented without caveats, there is an almost guaranteed chance that being the last slug will result in the Killer waiting over you until everyone else is dead (oftentimes with a little "WS" during the wait) to do a Mori which everyone hates by now since everyone has seen them dozens of times now and almost feels more like a form of BM and yet another reason why the game won't end more than like a cool cutscene that wasn't common like before.
Slugging for the 4k and getting bled out for 4 minutes (one does not exclude the other) happens way more often than getting slugged for a bit then hooked when it's safe to do so. Sometimes it's even not intentional and someone bleeds out because the Killer couldn't find them again, but the "why" matters little here. Props to you for not dragging the match on but that is not the average conclusion to getting slugged.
People wouldn't complain so much about slugging if it wasn't so common and if it wasn't often used more as a form of BM than an actual strategy, especially since the Finisher Mori which made slugging for the 4k even more common than it already was. No one cares if the Killer takes a few seconds to look around for a possible flashlight/pallet saver, that's not the kind of slugging people dislike and want gone.
Hell, I don't think I've seen a single game since the surrender mechanic that didn't end with at least one bot (since even if not slugged for the 4k, the last Survivor will instantly use the surrender mechanic if/when downed just to not have to see the Mori if they lose the Hatch race). That's how sick of 4k slugging and Mori animations people are.
"Hopefully the people downvoting will actually come to the conversation because I genuinely want to understand and am open to changing my mind."
Yeah… The downvote button is (very often) used when people don't want to engage in the why they dislike something and just press the "no" button and move on. The downvote button arguably discourage conversation due to it being a quicker alternative than explaining why, it also (just like Youtube before they removed the visible number of dislikes) sometimes will encourage other people to use the dislike button purely because the majority have used it and not because of their true opinion. I wouldn't hold my breath on the downvote button being an indicator of people who will take the time to answer.
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@Rogue11 said:
If there are perks that are so awful / selfish that knowledge about them would drive teammates away, why not change those perks?
If the issue was only with a handful of perks then I'd be inclined to agree.
However people will lobby dodge over cosmetics (default cosmetics or matching cosmetics tend to be dodged more often due to the assumption they are either new or a SWF). The moment people would bring off-meta builds, not even outliers like No Mither, they would get dodged non-stop.
People would literally need to last-second switch their perks to deal with their own teammates.
Doing challenges requiring certain perks would become even harder and some adepts would be difficult to even attempt.
A large part of the community cannot be trusted to accept to play with sub-optimal teammates. It's the whole reason why Prestige (despite having very little correlation with skill) was removed in lobby, and lo and behold lobby dodging drastically went down.
There are things in this update that are pretty bad and will only reduce variety and make the game more stale, however this specific change isn't part of those.
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People don't mind the Mori per-say. Before this, Mori animations were liked (or at least tolerated) but now, with them happening in most matches, it got old really quick and now they're merely seen as "additional reason why the game won't end" instead of a cool cutscene that didn't happen often.
By hiding a Mori animation behind a 4k no matter the means, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is. It's true that it happened before already, the Finisher Mori didn't create it, but the sheer number of threads talking about it since the Finisher Mori was introduced speaks for themselves of how it got worse.
We already hear it everywhere, Killers slugging the last 2 and then waiting for one to die (either by bleedout or simply standing over the last slug after hooking the 3rd, wasting minutes instead of ending the game in seconds even when there's hooks within spitting distance) just to Mori the last, is only making people hate those animations due to them encouraging such endgames and making the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is (as newcomers/low-mmr players will see their games end in a 4k more often).
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise almost every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout slugfest games than normal even though people could get up because Killer players wanted that animation after killing the first 2 Survivors.
[Quite frankly, it wouldn't be that hard to keep the Finisher Mori but make it into something that rewards those that don't slug for the 4k and win the Hatch race without removing 4k slugging for those that merely want to secure the win: The Finisher Mori only becomes available if the last Survivor is on their feet (healthy or injured or Plot-Twisting, that last one is to prevent from trying to purposefully deny the Mori by using the perk right before the other dies) when the second-to-last Survivor dies by sacrifice, by unique Mori (NOT by bleedout) or escapes. Succeeding would grant extra BP for the extra steps.]
(There's threads about similar solutions)
The goal isn't to remove things, it's to make things healthier. Slugging for the 4k was already a common thing, but it wasn't as prevalent and Mori animations weren't seen as a chore. This same mindset applies to countless aspects of the game but this one is currently making a big impact but could be turned into something good.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3908872#Comment_3908872
I definitely agree it needs to be asked, I would like to know myself.
I just don't know if it should affect MMR for either side at all if it is the case. After a while, fighting against or with bots feels like it's not a real round... so it shouldn't gain or lose you any MMR at all.I do agree. I honestly don't believe bots should affect MMR. But before the surrender mechanic, bots weren't exactly common and most matches would end with 4 human Survivors instead of almost every game ending with 1-2 bots.
However now, with how common bots are, it is a pretty important question to ask since now they will impact every matches.
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@LockerLurk said:
I don't see how they would affect MMR at all.
I mean, it's a question worth asking since the situation which prompted those bots varies greatly.
Should a bot count as a human player or (since the human DCed) did the Killer already got MMR? Or does DCing entirely voids any possible MMR change?
With the new surrender option, almost never ending a game without at least one bot, the question is rather important…
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I mean, between the devs giving a basekit Mori on the last Survivor (which incentivizes slugging for the 4k) and making a "surrender" option when everyone is slugged (which essentially means that slugging everyone officially became an alternate, and arguably easier depending on the Killer, win condition) then it's no wonder that slugging is out of control.
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@MsPawley said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907928#Comment_3907928
Yes EXACTLY. The amount of casual players/survivor players saying "it's 0.1s it's literally nothing" is driving me up the WALL. I've landed nearly 50,000 tail attacks since release, and now I'm whiffing left right and centre. 0.1s IS A FIFTY PERCENT INCREASE. AND YOU CAN STILL BE TAKEN OUT OF POWER!!! Xenos become so unbelievably frustrating now against even semi decent players. Not worth playing any more. This windup NEEDS to be reverted.
To be fair, we currently don't have the actual delay that we should have, the tail is currently bugged.
While I'm not defending the nerf (why nerf a Killer with a miserable pickrate anyway?) we currently can't really give feedback since we don't have access to the actual product.
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1: Ghoul would be so bad if he was 4.4. His power can't down Survivors as it stands and (let's be honest) it's only a matter of time before he gets nerfed due to all the outcry (I assume/hope the range, generosity of the grab and cooldown will be adjusted, the power itself is fine). Making him 4.4 would just make him an even worse Legion.
2: The moment Blight becomes 4.4 is the moment every casual & average Blight players stop touching him (especially on consoles where certain things are even trickier to pull of) and all that's left are pro players going on 100+ winstreaks and slugging everyone. I'd rather still have a chance at fun when facing Blight thank you.
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I mean, when the Killer can cross the map in 5 seconds and slug everybody almost as quickly as a good Nurse can, the Survivors don't have time to dally.