SidneysBane1996
SidneysBane1996
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Not every Killer has to be A tier to be good.
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The perk offers a LOT of aura info for EVERYONE on almost all Killers except for two, both of which are mid-tier to weaker Killers.
The perk being an Invocation that breaks you and can't be combined with another Invocation is valid, correct, and 100% necessary. This is a strong perk already. It doesn't need a buff. Figure out how to use it and you'll see how strong it really can be; it's for more advanced players who have strong loopers on their teams or are themselves strong loopers. And Invocations don't go away once you kill the Invoker, either, so this perk completely alters the game for the rest of the trial.
Yes, wallhacks on Killers IS that strong. And no, they can't just "avoid the crows" any more than Survivors can. That's a really stupid thing to ask Killers to worry about, period.
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I think Thrill as a totem protection perk CAN stay, it certainly needs something because otherwise it's sort of useless and making it stronger isn't an issue. I just think not this strong. 14% is a little absurd, I think 10-12% would be fine. That way when stacked with other totem protecting perks like Undying or Dominance, it's not so terribly strong as to make cleansing take 47 seconds.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
People just enjoy holding others hostage, the mori is just an excuse to justify it. Removing it will change nothing because power trippers gonna power trip
This is true but nobody wants to admit it.
And also hey smurf, I'm sure if you search you'll notice a LARGE amount of posts asking for Moris to be more useful, keeping the Iri Mori, and allowing the basekit Mori to exist as a finisher. Besides, the Devs wanted this forever. They have been trying to put this in the game forever.
Like it or not it's not going anywhere no matter how many people complain, because not only did several people want this, the DEVS want this.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849203#Comment_3849203
The finisher mori is definitely an issue on its own. It's less a cool thing and more a poorly thought out thing that has almost exclusively negative impacts.
It encourages slugging for 4k, takes away the ability of survivors to make dramatic endgame escapes by wiggling off, acts as a way to show off the killer's victory in the same way as teabagging at gate, and even has led to new ways to cap off toxic endgame behaviors where some killers will wait out a bleedout timer then mori at the last second.
It's been extremely negative with no real benefits except that some people think it's cool to look at. Also, I'd say the community didn't fight for and want this. A subset of the community wanted it, but a lot of the community expressed that they didn't want to try this nonsense again after the previous finisher mori disaster. And now that it's here, a lot of people still don't want it.
Killers have literally always slugged for 4ks. Always. The Finisher Mori doesn't change that.
Nobody owes you hatch or an escape. Finisher Mori isn't an issue the way generator rush perks aren't an issue or the exit gates aren't an issue. It's part of the game. If you don't like that, you don't need to play, but don't ruin it for everyone else. -
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848765#Comment_3848765
And they've had weaker arguments before, for nerfing weaker stuff, so why should we listen to them now? It just seems like another anti-killer rallying cry. People just need to learn how to counter stuff instead of instantly jumping to the nerf hammer for safety. They still don't have a refute to the simple fact that killers can't be everywhere at once. How is he defending a totem all match? Do you just not do gens in the meantime? Are you pressuring him at all, or just letting him do whatever he wants? Because if that's the case, they would have lost to any killer/build anyway.
That's probably why they nerfed Lifeguard Whistle…
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849193#Comment_3849193
I could see 11% or maybe 12% being fine, but I definitely agree that 14% is too much. 46 seconds for one hex totem is quite crazy, especially since all that progress can simply disappear if you let go or get interrupted.
I'd be fine if when them nerfing it down to 12% in light of other hex protection perks, to be fair. It'd be no worse than Grim Embrace + Thrilling Tremors then.
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848405#Comment_3848405
Don't forget that the survivors also have map Items with certain offers to track down totems. This saves additional time
That's actually really true, this could help give maps a purpose as well as perks that show totems a purpose. Whaddya know! Killed two birds with one stone, BHVR did. Now we just have to see if Survivors will engage or just DC and give up on hook as a temper tantrum, regardless of if they tone the perk down or not.
Hint: They should tone it down a tic, it's just a bit strong. -
@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848759#Comment_3848759
How can you even try to pretend this? From Day 1 on live you have seen the rise in slugging for the second to last survivor.
Tell me, why do you believe Killers aren't allowed to have the cool thing?
There's no pretending. The community fought for and wanted this. The devs want this. It's not going to go away. This is definitely staying, if the Devs want to fix slugging they need to find another way. There's nothing wrong with the finisher Mori itself, it's just an animation, but the real issue is the rise in slugging FOR the finisher Mori. So the issue isn't the Finisher Mori, it's slugging.
I want the option to always be there for me to let me have the Mori, or choose mercy by giving hatch. And yes, I do still give people the hatch. -
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Personally, I think if there was a mode that should be permanent, it should definitely be Chaos Shuffle. Not only do you get a random experience, where you don't have to face meta perks every game, but it is also a great casual mode, that builds on the standard 1v4 mode.
I would like for it to have a randomizer element for items and add-ons as well, as it could make things even more fun, where you really have to play to the strengths of the perks and items/add-ons given to you.Random characters could also be a thing to consider, making this mode fully random.
2v8 is fun and all, but there are some major drawbacks to it, such as killer queue times, little variation when people find the best killer combo, and so on.
I dream of Chaos Shuffle being the permanent nonsweaty mode of my dreams with 2v8 and its jank and queue issues being a mode relegated to the backburner, only to come back every so often as a quirky one off limited mode and take over the Chaos Shuffle queue for a while.
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I do think after reflection it needs some dialling back, but I think having strong hexes in the meta and perks that support that is OK as an idea and should stay. Hexes should be able to have value in a match and give Survivors something else to do without them feeling like they're a non-issue and that bringing them is a waste of time. What's wrong with unconventional gen control that gives Survs another objective? Hell I'd like to see a perk that creates skillchecks on the totems while cleansing or something maybe, even.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848854#Comment_3848854
Killers have to intentionally handicap themselves to make the game difficult. Before we even get to talking about what survivor handicaps should exist, we are presuming they've already jumped through a number of hoops many players never will (4 person SWF that has played and trained together).
What's your point?
And comp is a totally different thing: survivors know the killer they are going to face and the win conditions are entirely different.
Huh. And do you lie to yourself often?
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848876#Comment_3848876
The perk probably does need a slight reduction
This is literally the point we are all making. The fact it has synergy with hexes is fine, the problem is solely that the numbers are too high right now
And I agree with this. The numbers are too high by a little bit, but my fear is all the fearmongering over how "OMG BUSTED OP!" this is now will get hexes nerfed to near uselessness again. We just got them back, I want to be able to experiment with hex builds without them being cleansed in five seconds, I want MORE perks to be viable not less. But I agree if it's affecting things this bad, it does need a slight reduction, and that's probably something that will be fixed in a hotfix later.
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@TWS001 said:
It needs to be dialled back a bit. I've been taking Counterforce all day but when someone is running this totem build, someone always seems to dc. Then you end up with the bots attempting to do the totem without Counterforce while you are stood there with a big boost and they don't realise that you have the perk to do them! And of course everyone then dies. Has happened 3 times already today.
A human player with half a brain can see from the new HUD update that I'm getting them done quickly and let you do them, but the bots just end up sabotaging the whole game! It's really annoying.
It's basically a solo queue stomper. SWF's probably laugh at this perk and build.
I agree it needs to be dialed back a bit, but dear god, NOT nerfed into uselessness… let Hex perks have a chance to not be garbage for once.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848569#Comment_3848569
That's the only issue with the Finisher Mori.
Killers should get the prompt to mori and end the match if all other survs are incapable of unhooking or getting the other up.I think this is a healthier change too. We can fix slugging or tunnelling for this in other ways.
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I fail to see why we can't just bring genrushing perks or toolboxes for this. Survivors seem to like those.
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It doesn't even need this.
Just slightly lower numbers and slightly buff antihex perks.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848765#Comment_3848765
No, we aren't. Its merely non-biased minds pointing out an imbalance in a recent change. But do tell us more!
Now I feel this was bait, but we'll see lol
It doesn't seem to be an oversight.
@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848765#Comment_3848765
Do you seriously think they would more than double the effect of Thrill of the hunt without even trying it on PTB? And do you think they would phrase such a massive buff as "reduced speed by 14% per totem (was 9%)" in an obscure part of the patch note?
The dev intended it to be a 70% increase in duration, not a 70% decrease in speed. We've seen them do this mistake multiple times with killer add-ons. (A 70% decrease in speed means 330% duration).
Yes, quite frankly I do. Whether or not that's a good decision remains to be seen and will probably get fixed in a hotfix. Just use anti-hex perks for now.
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Still getting needless angry bait posts from people mad I pointed out the perk's counters should be buffed instead of nerfing a perk that actually makes hexes viable.
Please don't respond to my posts again. You will not change my mind. The perk probably does need a slight reduction but it having synergy with hexes is fine, intended gameplay.
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There are similar qualifiers for Survivor teams in comp, crogers.
Many. Similar. Qualifiers.
Your point. What is it?
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848802#Comment_3848802
I very much think it's an issue that players on either side would be given a victory animation that they can force the other side to watch. There's enough toxicity in the game already without such a feature. It's really gotten to a point with it where I see it as being more toxic than teabagging at the gate.
And while slugging isn't the issue, it doesn't help that it's often accompanied by and even encourages slugging for 4k. It also has given killers a basekit ability that negates survivor perks in the endgame. It's like nobody thought it through. Honestly, I can't believe BHVR thought it was a good idea, and I'd be glad to fight hard to get it removed.
Removing it should be trivial too. There's almost certainly an 'if' statement in the code for each time a survivor gets downed, and when its parameters are met, the finisher mori is enabled. Just remove that, or even bypass it by hardcoding one of the parameters out.
It's not a victory animation. Don't be ridiculous. Survs have their own version of it too - squatting repeatedly on the hatch or in exit gates. It's not one side. One side just happens to have an unskippable cutscene version.
It's just not the "rub it in" equivalent you think it is, and if it's a problem then BHVR can fix it by giving us an option to skip it so only the Killer sees it. There. Now everyone's happy.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848816#Comment_3848816
People like OP just prove they don't actually like DBD at its core and want to warp the game into something they do like at the expense of everyone else. It's an incredibly unhealthy mindset to have towards a game, the most literal best advice someone can give is to go and play something else they do like instead of pushing for their preferences/demands to be met where they shouldn't be.
It's super true and then when someone comes in and goes "maybe the game isn't for you anymore and it's time to move on", rather than do the healthy thing and take a break or move on, they come here to whine and complain and continue to play a game they so obviously hate.
The Devs cannot, should not, and will not change the game to cater to your hero fantasy as Survivor, or your power fantasy as Killer. Nor should they. Questionable decisions aside, thank Entity they're more rational than some of their playerbase.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848765#Comment_3848765
Yes. We are complaining about hexes AGAIN. They have been a problem before. Thrill is overtuned and destroys soloq right now. It's a buff that should have been tested before going live.
"you get points for cleansing anyway" this legitimately made me laugh. I'm so glad to have 4k bp more, while losing to a Doctor at 4 gens remaining.
Also, if your having a problem with 10min matches, you can gladly take my matches. They are closer to 5min.
My question is why does it matter when the Devs clearly want this game to be not about winning all the time anyway? In fact I bet if you boosted Surv BP gains and just fixed issues like slugging (Killers hate doing it, Survivors hate being it) instead of nerfing perks AGAIN as a bandaid fix?
Your matches are 5 minutes you say? Well then, you should be supporting perks that make them last the intended 10-15 minutes. Perks like this one. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846569#Comment_3846569
Question though: what's the benefit?
Because taking someone else's hookstate, barring some altruism gimmick, doesn't benefit you unless the target is getting tunnelled. But a tunnelling killer is likely to return to hook upon unhook, in which case this perk gives exposed for a cheaper down, at which point you are on death hook.
It's effectively an anti-tunnel perk, but the exposed effect benefits tunnelling killers disproportionately, defeating the perk's purpose.
Because if the Killer targets the unhooker, not the person who just got unhooked, they aren't tunnelling. That isn't tunnelling, that is spreading hooks, the opposite of tunnelling.
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I can't argue with Firellius here because they won't change their minds, so I'll just add here the obvious elephant in the room:
Hex perks really are not that common, and if this build becomes a nw meta then Survivor perks will need to change to compensate. What's so wrong about adding a new Meta to learn to play around? Seriously, Survivors need more to do, and this adds it, so what is the actual problem?
I'm starting to think a lot of the Survivor side complaints around here are just "let me win, I want to win more" in disguise. As someone who plays both, I actually think Survivor's in a fine state right now and doesn't need any more. -
@BroRespectTheBoop said:
So killers think that survivors have it so easy and have the ability to counter everything.. Tell us then, what's the best build to counter Aura Reading, Scratch Marks, Grunts of Pain, Bloodlust, Zero staggering when falling, Tunneling, Camping, and whatever other perks the killer decides to bring that can include Repair, Healing, Cleansing slowdowns, Blindness, Exhaustion, Screaming, Exposed, Broken, Oblivious, Pallet/Totem/Gen blocking? - This isn't even including the individual killers power.
There aren't enough perk slots to cover everything, even if all 4 survivors bring a fully optimized build, and as a solo queue player it's even worse.Literally nobody here even said that.
If Killers must deal with everything Survivors can throw at them, I see no reason Survivors shouldn't also be, fairly, expected to learn how to handle everything Killers can throw at them. And that means sometimes, you bring perks to counter things that may or may not give value, or you learn to play around the meta some other way.
Nobody is asking Survivors to "have the ability to counter everything" and the Killer quite frankly CANNOT bring all of those at once, don't be disingenuous here. Even as Survivor, you are going to get strings of losses because the Killer brought stuff you can't account for. You're not supposed to be ABLE to account for everything, nor is the Killer, literally nobody is supposed to be able to counter everything the other side can throw at them.
And all this forgets a simple fact: You are not supposed to be Superman as a Survivor and you are not supposed to win every game or even the majority of games as Survivor in a horror assym experience. The Devs have all but codified this at this point. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a very good horror experience, would it?
The sooner everyone who plays Survivor embraces this, learns to love it, and learns to play around it, the better. And to add to this, quite a few Killers need to learn that a 3-4k isn't the only goal, either - winning a lot gets real boring after a while.
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I will not be replying to the obvious Survivor Mains angry they can't get a 60%+ escape rate with their SWF when them being in a SWF and having coordination is WHY they can get a higher escape rate than SoloQ in the first place.
The game is horror themed. The game is an assymetrical game. Killers must always be stronger than Survivors, if you can't handle that then why are you playing Survivor? If you think Killer is so easy and that 60% killrates are really too much or guaranteed all the time, why not try playing Killer and see how far you can actually streak? And don't cheat by playing someone like Blight or Nurse or Billy with four slowdown or full aura either. Bring what you think is a non-sweaty Killer build, play the way you think Killers should play to make Survivors happy, then come back here and tell everyone how "easy" it is to get a 60% killrate average out of that.
I'll wait.
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I used to think DBD was toxic.
Then I started playing other MMO games. -
@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847846#Comment_3847846
So have I but it was subtly directed at those that tell people to stop playing until our mode comes back. That's an absurd thing to say.
I have miserable experiences on both sides too.
The problem with this is that OP is all over these forums and constantly:
- Keeps begging for a mode proven to be BAD for game queues not only comes back but becomes the permanent preferred mode (subtly implying "screw you if you want to play 1v4 or any Killer aside from 8 characters, I don't care about YOUR fun only mine").
- Keeps subtly implying in those same threads that anyone who doesn't want the mode back is a Killer Main (and thus is using that term to insult and call people sweaty for no reason, creating an us vs. them situation), doesn't like fun, or just doesn't care. This despite the fact people like this mode and surprise, Killer is more popular when you can play it with a friend, because Killer is the biggest draw to this game, because Survivor gameplay is kinda boring and samey after a while.
- Insists the reason is "Killer Mains don't like fun" and "BHVR doesn't like fun they're too proud" when no, the real issue is the queue times and lack of anything for Survivor to do because 2v8 is quite simply a stripped down arcadey DBD experience. Always has been, always will be.
And that's why I directed at them. Because they're complaining about a mode that doesn't exist, is proven to be bad for the game, and prioritizes the fun of people who like this mode over the fun of anyone else who doesn't or simply just wants to play with Killers or the perks they paid for.
Most people who do like this mode and prefer it don't come here to complain about a limited mode going away (and coming back later), they simply make the logical choice to just not play until the mode they main is on, or they go back to 1v4 and deal with any sweaty games until the next mode like the rest of us. If you want to main this mode, fine, but you have to accept it won't be permanent and isn't going to come back for months, so if you truly cannot stand 1v4 you won't be playing for a while and should probably find another game.
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How about we buff antihex perks instead of nerfing hex perks into near useless niche turf again? Then we can have both strong hexes and strong counter to the hexes. Instead of nerfing anything that's an issue, buff the stuff that counters it. Then use it.
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Flashbangs have been massively bugged in general since about… I wanna say the Vecna update. Probably earlier.
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So let me get all these complaint posts straight.
Survivors are allowed to bring whatever they want and be as strong as they want with their meta perks.
But the second Killer gets anything new, nope it needs to be nerfed into the ground too strong we can't learn to play around it or simply accept that we can't win every match even in SWF.
And we can't just ask the devs to buff the counter perks to them because…?
Make it make sense,
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848759#Comment_3848759
There was definitely a sharp cutoff in instances where I saw myself or others be given hatch or a gate since the finisher mori was introduced.
Killers have plenty of things too :)
We can use our powers to dominate survivors, teleport around the map (or across pallets), throw survivors into stuff, guard the basement chest, give them fun party hats, and literally teabag them back. Killers have so many more things than survivors.
I play killer and enjoy giving my survivors a good match, and I'll even do a 4k if I win a hatch race and am feeling like it's warranted. But I definitely won't be forcing someone to watch some animation celebrating how I sacrificed the other three members of their team and then got them too. Seems to me like an overall negative thing for the community.
I really honestly, no offense, do not think the finisher Mori is the issue and that if slugging is the problem, we need to address that.
I want the Finisher Mori to stay, I and others fought HARD for that on Reddit, the official Discord, etc. even before I started posting here. There's really no reason it shouldn't stay, just do something else about slugging. Is it really that big an issue we see a different death animation?
Plus, there's zero chance it's being removed. They PTBed it, tested it, and reworked the Moris for it, and they're not about to just undo all that hard work and code. The Devs wanted this. The community basically wanted this. Now that we have it, it complains, but we wanted this and we got it.
The issue is not and never has been Moris. It's always been the way a win is counted in DBD, and always been the way Killers keep being encouraged to slug by making hooks less and less appealing for a variety of reasons. Expect if STB gets popular, slugging to skyrocket more.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3848777#Comment_3848777
This is interesting actually, since all of us only have our own experience to go on. As killer, I essentially never do these things, except occasionally against a bully squad (and not even typically against them). But as survivor, I don't do anything to warrant these behaviors; no teabagging, no annoying flashlight aggro. I don't even run Flashbang that often and I typically wait for some time to let the killer get away before going for unhooks. Nevertheless, it astonishes me how often killers will run straight back to any unhook they can.
That's kinda my experience, too. I don't go out of my way to do anything like that from the word go as Killer, and if it does happen it's accidental or me pressuring something else and a Survivor getting caught in the crossfire. I find slugging for a long time boring (and I always lose slugs I leave too long anyway), I don't tunnel from 5 gens on purpose because I hate that ######### as Survivor, and I don't usually stick around hooks that long unless I think you're all very altruistic. And usually if I'm slugged or tunnelled or camped as Survivor, it's OBVIOUS and because the Killer either a) just hates my face for some reason, b) I was the convenient close target, c) I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In other words, mostly accidental, unintended, or just the Killer pressuring as normal because it's part of the game.
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I promise y'all half of the cases I see of tunnels and slugs, both sides, are related to a Survivor doing something or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not because Killers "inherently like to sweat more". Never has been, never will be.
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@Firellius said:
No. Stop making survivors use up all their perk slots to fix the game being broken.
You mean like Killers had to for years to stop Survivor meta perks?
It's called a strategy. Survivors need to not overuse a ton of chase and gen perks the same way Killers need to not rely on the ame gen slowdown forever.
Let Killers have things.
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Good ideas, but Counterforce already has the stacking 20% speed increase.
I highly agree that the 30% debuff on Calm Spirit needs to be gone, as it makes no sense whatsoever.I agree with this if totems are gonna be a new meta. Arguably the chest thing can go, too.
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Brother did you know at least half of the time, those slugs, tunnels, and camps are unintentional or actually just reactions to Survivor actions?
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@jesterkind said:
I don't think DBD is currently heavily weighted in either direction. Both sides have some egregious stuff they can bring, but that stuff is lesser in number and potency than it used to be, and both sides have roughly the same amount.
I also don't think current generators are all that fast, if you aren't facing toolboxes. The current state of the game allows for the killer to affect gen speeds quite a bit, it's pretty healthy in that regard.
This is true, and really the only thing that needs tweaking on that front is toolbox repair speed. Then gens should be nicely balanced, perfectly even. Items shouldn't be stronger than perks.
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It doesn't actually appear to be an oversight, and besides - Hexes needed OSMETHING to make them viable. This does that. Are we seriously complaining that Killers aren't using gen regression besides Ruin to make games not be 10 minutes of gens popping to and fro? Is this really how low we've stooped, complaining about Hexes of all things?
Are Killers allowed to have anything good and strong? Ever? Let Killers have Hexes be strong for all I care, if Survivors can have their strong perks so can Killers. Besides, you get points for the cleansing anyway.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847909#Comment_3847909
No offense but what was the point of saying this? It has nothing to do with the question asked in this discussion.
It's an open forum and I am tired of people telling me how weak Ghostface is when these three exist. The community thinks Ghostie is weak?
These guys are weak. Ghostface's issues pale in comparison.
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This happened after last 2v8 too, all the people who ONLY wanna be superpowered Survs and Killers left. Now there's only newcomers, people who just prefer 1v4, and people who never stopped playing either side.
I think 2v8 just messes up the game's MMR too, because remember - games were sweatier in 2v8. People were losing more, so they downranked to potato MMR. Both sides. And a lot, lot quicker too.
My suggestion: SWF up, or use this time to learn a new Killer using this bumper crop of easier targets as a softer landing to help you understand the game. Or, bring back being a nice Killer/farmer SWF. Nothing wrong with it. :)
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They should never remove this, let Killers have things. Killers are allowed to have things. Killers are allowed to dominate in matches just as Survivors can.
The finisher Mori isn't why people slug more and it's not why people stopped giving hatch; that was a rarity even before this for about a half a year.
The game is horror-themed. Survivors in a horror movie are intended to die and only SOME get out, or all die. That is what you're supposed to be paying for and it's what the Devs have finally, finally achieved after 8 years of nonsense.
Let. Killers. Have. Things.
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LOL they are 100% not gonna killswitch a perk just because the other side finds it inconvenient and too strong before an event. They didn't do it for MFT before Anniversary 2023, BBQ, or Haunted by Daylight. They won't here either.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847707#Comment_3847707
And at this point the game is lost. Seriously, Survivors dont have that much time anymore to do Side Objectives. If you spend your time cleansing Totems the whole game, the game is basically lost. But yay, you can cleanse Totems in seconds afterwards, cool.
So… like Killers have never had time to do ever, then?
The buff is fine, Hexes needed something to make them actually viable. Let Killers have things, if it's a problem bring anti-totem perks instead of chase and generator perks. What BHVR is doing and has been doing is FORCING people both sides to change builds up and try out new things to shake up the meta. If people would rather go next than literally just try something new and get rid of their easy meta builds, and then they get clapped by a new build based around side objectives and made of perks that badly needed the update, I'm sorry but that's really childish and petty and honestly a skill issue.
It's really time for Survivors to have to think as much as Killers do about their builds. Just putting on chase chase gen gen or a bunch of anti-everything or nuisance perks doesn't cut it anymore, and hey - it never did for Killers. Now BHVR has evened the playing field.
Good. The people that hate this will quit, and everyone else will stay and learn the new meta and new strategies.
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The issue is that as everyone has pointed out, slugging counteracts this entirely.
Not a good way to resolve a non-existent issue, that being going back to defend hooks and check on unhooks to secure hits, a tactic the Killer is expected to and allowed to do. If Survs can greed on gens there is nothing wrong, toxic, or boring about Killers being able to proxy or monitor hooks like this. It's not face camping and not tunnelling. It's legitimately fine, leave it alone. It's only an issue when you literally tunnel the same person off the hook repeatedly, which is the only time this perk should work.
It currently does not. It needs to deactivate for everyone once it's used once in the trial or needs a cooldown or something. Period. Survs shouldn't be able to so control hooks that hooking is a liability.
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@Grigerbest said:
Just want to drop my casual thought:
If they make 2v8 permanent without any adjustment to killer q-times - it will be the easiest uninstall decision of my life.
This. I would hate it, I love this game. but I would regretfully and reluctantly do it. BHVR would 100% lose me and probably a lot of others as a customer.
I do not wanna wait in 20 minute long queues to play either a downgraded stripped-down mode, OR a sweaty sweatfest of the sweatiest players alive EITHER side.
The game cannot handle both. Time to admit that even if you love lovelovelove LOVE 2v8. It cannot be permanent.
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People are seriously paranoid STB, which is admittedly a very strong perk, could be abused by SWFs. Once people learn about it, some SWFs WILL hard mode-lock it on many people to prevent tunnelling, but the issue is the perk doesn't JUST affect Killers who tunnel off hook. It affects any Killer that tries to play around spreading out hooks period.
Make no mistake, giving Survivor teams the ability to control who has hookstages is incredibly powerful and BHVR will very much have to in the next few patches, if this perk gets big, really think through what they did here. The best solution is to make it only work on a Surv that has been targeted twice in a row, and inactive for anyone else, so that it truly punishes tunnelling and not any Killer just normally proxying a hook or playing near hooks by ping-ponging Survivors (neither of which are tunnelling).
Perk also maybe is not working correctly right now.
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At the least my main isn't this weak, and at least one of my other Killers in the roster just got a TON better too.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3847488#Comment_3847488
There's nothing wrong with fishing for a participation trophy, killers are allowed to do whatever they want, and sometimes one late-game kill after a hard game can lead to a win.
All I'm saying is most killers are realistic and have their expectations fairly low when struggling to even get 1 kill with only the last gen to complete.
Chiming in again to say thank you for saying this. The community likes to use terms like "consolation prize" and "participation trophy" when it talks about Killers winning, but then also likes to say you "have to win" referring to 3-4ks.
Why do we honestly all care how many kills a Killer gets? The game says each Kill is kind of its own win, therefore the Killer doesn't win once if they get all 4 and win less if they get less… they can win up to 4 times a round, and Killer is actually more like a canned deer hunt with four deer. Now, if only emblems, pips, etc. supported all this and the devs made even a 1k feel like victory.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I guess it depends on your playstyle but I don't think it won't make much of a difference to me when I play killer. I generally try not to tunnel to begin with so go ahead and swap hook states. I think survivors might screw themselves over and I'll accidentally kill someone I didn't realize had an extra hook state. Time will tell of course but I think the only killers that will lose their minds over this are the sweaty ones that could use taking a chill pill to begin with. Survivors in my lobby are welcome to run it though. I'll eat my words if I'm proven wrong.
Honestly as a Stealth Killer and proxy-er I don't mind, I'll just use it to gain stalk then run in and hit the unhooker anyway with the free exposed. I also run Grim+Thrilling as my gen control and DON'T tunnel because my build doesn't work if you tunnel on purpose. But it is still a very strong perk, and I think if it ends up being problematic the best change they can do is simply to put it on a 60 second timer, and only work on the Survivor being unhooked if they were just unhooked within that 60 seconds.
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The perk is obviously unhealthy when everyone can bring it AND perks that create "can't catch me" scenarios. If Devs are any smart, they will either add a more severe penalty or make it so the perk deactivates after ANYONE in the round uses it once, so SWFs cannot abuse it too hard. They could also add that it doesn't activate unless the rescued Survivor has been hooked twice in a row, defined as "hooked twice in under a minute or two" - that is, put it on a timer.
The issue is the synergy, it does not actually punish just tunnelling. It should ONLY punish tunnelling. It actually also punishes valid strategies, and it encourages bad practices like proxying around hooks, especially as ranged, stealth, or instant downing Killers.
I do think some Killers can sorta get around it, but it's still not a great situation when we now have basekit changes AND many perks that can allow Survivors to control the hooks.