Shinkiro
Shinkiro
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4064407#Comment_4064407
To me it's mainly a question of why you chose to not release him on storefronts. At the very least, it breaks the convention.
So.. why not?
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Well that certainly is strange. I wonder if this is a new precedent moving forward or just a one-off since it's just a new Survivor this time.
It's almost certainly because he is part of an already existing original chapter that's already bundled on store fronts so making another DLC for him alone is kinda redundant .
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Sadly i think she's just a dead character at this point. Survivors are gonna irrationally hate her no matter what so she's gonna be shoved away and left to rot so no one will play her either. She wasnt even that good before the recent gutting.
Anyone who spent real money on her chapter should honestly get compensation from BHVR for this abysmal support
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Not at all tbh, still not gonna play trickster, pseudo indoor shift-w map is gonna suck for most killers (map is awesome from a aesthetics point though), dont care about the survivor, he'll be p1 and then never touched again like most of them.
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2v8,…..and not affect queue times too badly.
Errrr.. what?
Splitting the playerbase is the last thing we need. The game is far too RNG, perk reliant, lopsided and luck dependant to ever have a real worthwhile "ranked mode" in any sense of the meaning. You'd basically have to copy comp DBD and hard limit survivor and give preferable maps to killer. Not to mention it'll just be blight by nurselight ft. ghoul and people SWFing, sounds god awful and boring as heck and not even remotely fun because the game isnt created and balanced for that. BHVR arent going to incentivise that anywhere near enough to get anyone to play it enough to be worth it.
This would also allow players who don't necessarily want to play hardcore to gravitate to an explicitly casual playlist.
99.9% of players are not going against "hardcore" players, the gaslighting really has to stop. This is a perfect example of the biggest issue in DBD, it has always been player mentality. It's a PvP game, not PvE roleplay gen simulator. Playing to win is literally the foundation of PvP games, its literally just playing the game, its not toxic, sweaty, or try hard or whatever other buzzword you might describe it as. The game has MMR, by definition it has a competitive basis.
People just want easy wins with minimal effort and it really does show in how people react to normal gameplay (DCing, giving up, throwing, crying tunneller, crying for unjustified killer nerfs etc etc), and in how they talk about the game.
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→ This is applied to every fresh hook (must be hook on different survivor every time)
I disagree with the second half. It should be every single fresh hook and not be cancelled for the rest of the game just because you double hooked. Why should I not want to hook a survivor if they just happened to be the one i found again? This encourages slugging unnecessarily and letting survivors get away with being reckless because the killer wont want to hook them or they get punished for doing their objective (which was one of the many problems these changes caused).
Killer should be allowed to double hook as hooking is the objective, just don't apply the slowdown on that consecutive hook and start again on the next fresh hook.
Edit: Also apply the slowdown on a double hook if that survivor has performed a conspicuous action. They had time to contribute to the game, so they are not being tunnelled, so the killer shouldn't be punished for hooking them afterwards. Having a strict and inflexible "fresh hook" mechanic doesn't really work with how the game is played, because playing the game on rails cannot work, the system has to be flexible to nuances of how games play out.
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Honestly, its nice for once that we can all come together in hatred of this god awful system.
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@albertoplus said:
Maybe a really hot take here, but i believe at this rate that the game would be more "balanceable" by removing all exhaustion and all gen regression perks.
Right now they are basically mandatory if you want to compete against a decent killer in case of survivors or a decent survivors in case of the killer.
And right now if you have a balanced gen time, it will get unbalanced with gen regression perks. And if you balance gen time while having gen regression perks into account, then they become mandatory. The same happens with chase time and exhaustion perks.
By not having both of those perks maybe it will be a nightmare but i think the game would become at the end far, far easier to balance.
No you're right, gen times are far too volatile to balance around, especially when progression keeps getting better and regression doesnt keep up so it becomes ever more one sided on top of giving survivors the means to be more efficient.
Fixed gen times can be easier balanced around and adjusted without a ton of perks and items influencing them.
But this is just gen times alone, the faster survivor can heal, etc, the more they are on gens so they get artificially faster that way too.
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@SandMan212 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062059#Comment_4062059
ok, this isnt wrong for kaneki. I dont believe hes even that strong. BUT I do have to point out how data is as objective as the standard BHVR sets for results IS. and in a lot of situations things most people consider a win/loss BHVR doesn't. its why onyro, a mid-low tier killer has a super high kill rate even though she isnt that great. thats the bias of their method. its also a reason why their data has lead to killers who dont need nerfs, getting nerfs.
its why onyro, a mid-low tier killer has a super high kill rate even though she isnt that great.
It's high because of the extra objectives survivors have to execute for counter play, you'll notice there's a recurring theme that these types of killers do better than they realistically should because seemingly alot of survivors either dont understand or ignore the mechanics leaving the killer in a better state for the game.
its also a reason why their data has lead to killers who dont need nerfs, getting nerfs.
I agree, but its not the data, its BHVRs inability to take context and nuisance from the data and failure to understand how their own game works and how it is played, so they don't base their conclusions on reality. The data needs to be used correctly and that's on BHVR's incompetence in this regard, but that's not the fault of the data itself.
There's plenty of examples on this, such as the infamous gideon slugging statistic confusion.
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I think only sprint burst and lithe needing looking at tbh.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063080#Comment_4063080
He even added to it all of the end caps and little bit more is a new rant.
Omg Yeah.. i dont even care what the rants about im not reading it like this lol
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Punctuation and paragraphs please! I beg you.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062890#Comment_4062890
killer anxiety isn’t real, its just a ego problem.
The game isnt killer sided, its a survivor skill issue.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062890#Comment_4062890
I really can't think of any.
Was changing completing gen time from 80 to 90 seconds a survivior buff?
What about prove thyself nerf?Killers have to end chase quickly because of the gen speeds? Us arguing about this is like arguing about chicken and egg - what was first?
Killers need to end chases quick, because surviviors do gens.
Surviviors need to do gens quick, because killers are too opressive in chase and on top of this they bring 3-4 slowdowns every game.How am I wrong in saying that killers being too oppressive is direct reason why people had to become more efficient?
Was changing completing gen time from 80 to 90 seconds a survivior buff?
And got extra time on hook in compensation, which gives survivors more total time value than killer got. So what's your point? Because its proving mine.
You're showing the problem with thinking of and trying to justify only one side, both sides affect each other. But one side has the potential efficiency of 4 players combined and the other doesn't so they are not equivalent to each other.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062890#Comment_4062890
"all the survivor efficiency buffs "
enlighten me.
Why would i engage in what's obviously going to be a dishonest conversation?
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You're conveniently forgetting all the survivor efficiency buffs while not compensating killers for it, even nerfing them further in addition, making it worse and more miserable to play for them. There's a reason the killer anxiety movement has become a thing. You're obviously keen to only see one side of the coin and base your argument on that and not the overall state of the game.
Killers have to more than ever end chases quickly to keep up with gen efficiency. That's simply the direction the game has gone due demanded changes and the speed the game can play out now. Short of further nerfing maps directly to accomplish that, killer design has to now shift towards a combination of mobility, anti-loop, slowdown and weakening resources for survivors to feel good to play.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062537#Comment_4062537
Yet Ghoul and other S tier killers can remain in their current state, and here you are for crying for exhaustion perk changes.
Maybe if they were to change exhaustion perks, then change killer aura reading, and gen slowdown perks too.
Killer perks require you actually do something (mostly chasing, downing and hooking survivors which requires significant time investment) to actually use them. SB and Lithe do not require any real conditions and provide immense value on a relatively short cooldown for zero effort from survivors.
Stop treating killer perks like they are equal to survivor perks because they are not. Not to mention there isnt potentially four copies at once giving the same level of value, killers perks need to give 4x more than survivor perks as its 16v4 perks.
I don't even know why you're moaning about gen slowdown, in a world where you can easily get 30s free chase extensions every single chase per survivor which gives the other three survivors the equivalent time to do an entire generator just from that single perk. Its been garbage for awhile now which is exactly why people are stacking them to actually try get value from them because everything else also gets nerfed since we apparently arent allowed good chase perks either.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062851#Comment_4062851
Agreed, and I’m shocked not many people are talking about this also.
Yeah im shocked too, its hugely detrimental to the game to manipulate maps. It's the sole reason ive barely been touching the game recently. I dont want to keep getting maps that are highly detrimental to and allow to easily counter my preferred killers.
I havent played much since i got five indoor maps in a row awhile ago. Just doing a daily game on survivor for the rift then playing other stuff.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062850#Comment_4062850
Yes, i play both with controller and keyboard, depending on what I feel like at the moment.
Controller is much more comfortable when leaning back, but keyboard gives much more precision when playing either survivor or killer.
Giving controllers aim assist is fine, I'm just suggesting that it should be up to players what kind of lobby they end up in. Which, technically you can turn off cross-play… but due to it being enabled by default, the non-crossplay lobbies are dead.I'm just suggesting that it should be up to players what kind of lobby they end up in.
Or should it when there's literally no tangible benefit to do so?
Besides, crossplay would still be the default because the game needs as many people playing together as possible as its just plain benefits, asking BHVR to change that default to the detriment of themselves is unreasonable. So you'd have to manually opt out of it, so you still wouldn't have a "choice" as no one is going to purposefully ruining their matchmaking times for no reason.
I honestly dont understand why people want to die on this anti-crossplay hill. It should only be disabled for proper competitively ranked game modes, which already happens in every competitive game already. An increased player pool is good for everyone.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062804#Comment_4062804
It really is frustrating.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y27WR8KSVWSF/image.png
site link has the percentages listed if interested. around 40% chance to go to one of these 8 realms
Wow i didnt know the percentages. Thats just god awful, no one wants play on most of those maps, especially on killer, its atleast a bit better on survivor i guess. Maybe a hot take, but this is legitimately the worst thing BHVR has implemented in a long while.
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@TheResidentEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062664#Comment_4062664
I think the game has evolved past that a long time ago. When you play killer against a good coordinated SWF with comms, it's a lot different than playing against 1 or 2 SWFS or worse, all Solo Queue players. There's nothing they can add to the game to stop people from being in a voice call to make comms, so why not just make that gap for people playing without it smaller? It'd make all the games more consistent for both sides. It just levels the playing field for people who aren't playing with anyone else, and the killer aura reading from Kindred would still be a good enough effect to be worth running on it's own if you wanted to.
It'd make all the games more consistent for both sides.
What does this even mean? Consistently what? Better for survivor and worse for killer? Yeah it would, so what are survivor losing in exchange and/or what are killers getting in exchange. Because its gonna be a huge basekit buff for survivors, and killers are going to have to get an equally huge basekit buff to compensate for the ever increasing better survivor efficiency that comes from giving more and more free info.
The problem is SWF, but power creeping survivor constantly is equally as awful for game balance.
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@Wezqu said:
This is on the same level as complaining about milestones taking long time to do. This is just one task that you get done eventually while playing and even if you don't you are not most likely even going to need 100% done to get the reward quests done.
Not comparable at all, I dont care about milestones you barely even need them to finish the rift, they are practically optional as you'll progress them enough just playing to finish while doing dailies. But you need to do ALL the rift challenge to unlock all the rewards, so i have to do this one. So now i specifically have to play in an unhealthy way to improve my odds.
@cogsturning said:
I escaped through hatch yesterday, with a key that I found, and I'm not a big on hatch. You don't have to throw to get it. Just select the challenge and bring hatch offerings until it naturally happens that you're the last one left.
I barely ever naturally get into a hatch race, so yeah i basically have to try and engineer my chance to go for it, at the expense of others. I'll have to also sacrifice gate escapes to look for it too (proving escape rates are artifically lowered) because id rather get this done than care about escaping. It's awful design, i don't have time to sit here and try and farm a conditional and stupid challenge while playing my least prefered role to boot.
Escape challenges are fine, i escape often enough, just never through hatch. So rat key build it is i guess.
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@DNet89 said:
So Keys and Maps were reworked for the Walking Dead 9.1.0 patch on July 29th 2025 and I feel like they could still use a little more tweaking. I do like that the Keys open Chests now but there is only 3 chests per trial. I also like that there are only 3 Variations of Key, Maps, and Fog Vials each for Uncommon, Common, and Rare variety. (Brown, Green, and Blue). I also like it that they have only 5 Add-ons each at different rarities.
I wouldn't mind if they did this with a Toolboxes, Med-kits, and Flashlights also with only 3 Variations and 5 Add-ons each.
I believe there are only 3 Flashlights anyway but they are Common, Rare, and Very Rare.
Reducing add-ons with make less variety but clear up bloodweb clutter
TLDR: Keys and Maps are better than they were but Survivors still only want to mostly bring Med-kits, Toolboxes, and Flashlights
but Survivors still only want to mostly bring Med-kits, Toolboxes
Because their value is massively superior. Needing other items to be as broken as them to be worth using shows these items are problematic and they have a stranglehold on survivor items because of it.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062166#Comment_4062166
that would kill the game. you cannot buff every killer into nurse and blight level. low tier killers need buffs and nurse and blight need nerfs to close the gap between high and low tiers. if you just brainlessly gigabuff every killer below A tier, then kill rates will skyrocket to the point where no one will be happy. killer players will get tired of getting guaranteed 4k’s and survivors will get tired of going against overtuned killer after overtuned killer.
also calling nurse and blight “perfectly viable killers” is outrageous. they are both overtuned and are in desperate needs of nerfs. the fact that someone can go on a near 2000 win streak as blight twice with ease is enough proof that he’s busted beyond belief.
that would kill the game. you cannot buff every killer into nurse and blight level
It wouldn't, and where did i say that? YOU are saying that.
to
close the gap between high and low tiersYou know what does that? Buffing the worse killers! shocked pikachu face.
then kill rates will skyrocket to the point where no one will be happy
If, according to this forum the "OP unfair" ghoul is AVERAGE in BHVRs stats then this won't actually happen at all. Because without fundamental redesigns to how they work most of the roster will still have glaring weaknesses with how the game plays. You're the one suggesting we "gigabuff" all killers here, seemingly to justify your argument.
also calling nurse and blight “perfectly viable killers” is outrageous.
They literally are? Do i have to tell you what the definition of viable means?
the fact that someone can go on a near 2000 win streak as blight
Ah yes, lets base this all off of literally one person that is exceedingly great at the game. 99% of people are NOT going against these people, they are going against average people or worse, and your average blight/nurse/ghoul etc ARE NOT even remotely as problematic as you think.
But hey, using your logic lets hard giga nerf all survivors because some great ones exist! Genius! Developer of the year right here!
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062537#Comment_4062537
- Sprint Burst should work off of a longer cooldown instead of exhaustion (to prevent it from being paired with Vigil). Let's say something around 60-90 seconds. It should also be on a separate ability button, so that SB users doesn't have to walk all around the map.
- Lithe could have the time cut from 3 seconds to 2 seconds of 150% speed, based on the situation it is used in.
If used on a safe window, you get 2 seconds, but if it is used on an unsafe pallet, you get the usual 3 seconds. - Balanced Landing should have the speed component removed, and instead work on a 20 second cooldown timer. Increase the stagger reduction to 90%, so that it becomes more like a "parkour-based" perk.
Rest of the perks looks fine from your suggestion.
You can't balance exhaustion while vigil exists, its an unhealthy perk it needs to be reworked. Remove reductions to exhaustion timers and then you can balance perks based on their fixed value. Otherwise you HAVE to balance them based on vigil existing and is in play, which they clearly aren't. The easier it is to use the worse it should be though generally.
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@WolfePhD said:
I think the exhaustion perks as a whole need to be reworked.
If I was allowed to have my say…- Sprint Burst should be nerfed to cover less distance to counter utility.
- Lithe should be nerfed to cover less distance.
- Balanced Landing should remain unchanged.
- Dead Hard should remain unchanged.
- Dramaturgy should remain unchanged.
- Smash Hit should be buffed to reward skill expression.
- Overcome should be slightly buffed because it only activates twice in most games.
Basically nerf the easy, brainless free value ones so that they aren't as OP and buff the more conditional ones to reward doing something other than brainless shift-w, exactly how i would do it. Running or jumping a window shouldnt give so much value.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062385#Comment_4062385
It doesn't matter what the numbers say if people are miserable. He remains the most hated killer in the game to play against, while the anti-cheese ptbs were nuked immediately instead of just getting adjustments. We never even got to see any real numbers for those because they never got implemented. They could have tried 15s of Elusive or one other tiny thing to improve the situation, but no. So who is being listened to more?
I know its hard to believe, but a super tiny minority on forums complaining thats already a super tiny minority of players doesn't represent the playerbase. As with every single game, the vast majority of players simply play the game and don't cry about it every day. If people are "miserable" that really says more about their mentality about the game than anything else.
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@Xray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061960#Comment_4061960
we shouldnt be getting mad at BHVR for buffing survivor. We should be getting mad at them for letting these older killers become outdated and not changing them for the modern times.
We can do both, because both are continual issues.
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@azaxydbd said:
the chances that they will be nerfed are severely low, if they do then all the blight/nurse mains are going to rant the game, they cannot accept losing games, ghoul also needs a nerf after they fixed the vault bug.
No we should be buffing the rest of the roster to suit modern DBD, not nerfing perfectly viable killers because their designs happened to allow them to be playable with the direction that game has been going in.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062059#Comment_4062059
The issue is: what is the data? Nobody knows how theyve filtered it, whats out, whats in? And theyve made clear the past years that you shouldnt trust any data theyre using, just because they revealed it.
It's whatever data isnt deemed bogus and invalid data i'd imagine, e.g discounting games with DCs and other criteria which negatively influence the match and sways the outcome.
Does it really matter at this point anyway? People will look at it from a player bias POV, so showing most specific data is worthless because they will want it to match their narrative. Showing too much to general players is a huge mistake because people will purposefully misinterpret it or try to manipulate it to their own ends.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062059#Comment_4062059
They know its worthless. They just don’t care. Some players think that if they overwhelm the devs with enough complaints and nerf requests, they’ll eventually get what they want no matter how weak or illogical the argument is.
So they keep pushing it.
That said, the devs have actually done a pretty good job so far of ignoring that kind of pressure.
It’s like a kid in a store asking for a toy after already being told over and over that it’s too expensive. They just keep asking anyway, hoping the answer eventually changes.
What’s crazy is how angry some people get about having to actually think at a pallet. Even if they make the right play and escape the situation, the fact that they had to engage with the mechanic at all still frustrates them.
Some players think that if they overwhelm the devs with enough complaints and nerf requests, they’ll eventually get what they want no matter how weak or illogical the argument is.
Oh yeah 100% and its constant on so many things that clearly aren't game issues, but player issues. Why learn to play better when you can try and get everything you dislike nerfed i guess. It worked for them in the past with Skull Merchant and that gave them justification to keep trying it.
That said, the devs have actually done a pretty good job so far of ignoring that kind of pressure.
So far… i hope they took the hint after the awful idea to gut and murder skull merchant that listening to excessive emotional cries for nerfs is a hugely unhealthy and terrible thing for devs to be doing when it comes to balancing and will get them alot of ill will.
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@Dinadin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061977#Comment_4061977
Just that objectively only refers to the devs point of view. And not to the players point of view.
Data is objective actually. If it fits within a desired outcome then its valid, as much as some people will dislike that fact because it doesnt fit their bias opinion. Emotional, bias whining is the furthest thing from objective there is and worthless when it comes to decision making.
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We don't need to split queues pointlessly. People arent going to wait longer in the least populated queue, less people means less accurate skill match ups which leads to worse games. Ranked means nothing in DBD. My version of "chilling" could be your version of "sweating".
There's literally no reason to do this. Don't expect to play a PvP game and expect people not to play to win?
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@azaxydbd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061795#Comment_4061795
u could still play 1v4 even if 2v8 was normalized, whats ur point?
Errr.. no, its absolutely not worth playing when 2v8 is active and swallowing the whole game. Waiting the length of a match just to play is stupid and a waste of time. 2v8 is already a 3 week break from the game for me, it would just become a permanent uninstall at that point. Wouldn't even care if the game died.
If the 1v4 haters want 2v8 then progression wouldn't matter anyway because it doesnt use it. But i bet the mode becomes a ghost town because its only propped up by incentives, which shows how flawed it is. It should never be permanent.
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As long as its an actual health update for fixing issues for the game and not "operation buff survivor v2".
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How about we stop stripping killer of everything? If important game state information is bad and "lame" lets ditch the survivor HUD then! Seems only fair. Why should one side get more and more info and the other get less and less?
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Hell no, i actually want to play actual, real DBD, not 2v8-slop. You can have it in custom games with no progression as you dont need progression anyway if you dont want to play DBD.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061609#Comment_4061609
I'm fully aware people do respond with bias, but the comment that highlighted this as well as this one very much culminate in a dismissal of any concerns people have as purely based on emotion. Perhaps not your intent, but you must see how adding this kind of comment to the discussion reads this way.
Plus, I think it's important to remember that this is a game. We could make a perfectly balanced competitive spreadsheet, but that wouldn't be fun. I don't think even Ghoul players feel rewarded when they get their cheeky injury in, it's just optimal to start a chase with a pre-injured survivor so why wouldn't you do it?
I know he cannot down with his free hit, but his free hit puts you into an immediate disadvantage when looping, regardless of how good you are, you are left with fewer options unless you run DH (which is even stronger against other killers as that's 2 hits you can take instead of 1). Compare this to Legion's free injury. Legion has to either run a lap of the entire map to get a down with their power, or switch to a completely powerless M1 killer. People are more forgiving of that because Legion hits are less likely to translate to game progress for them. And I'm not here defending Legion getting free hits either! I'm just pontificating on why Ghoul specifically gets ire for this.
If it is a case of the way the ability is coded preventing it being a skill shot of some form, then either the ability needs to be rebuilt so it does function like that, or reworked so its impact isn't just removing a health state without effort or thought.
For one last bit of context, I prefer playing killer, and feel survivors have plenty of tools already to perform well. There are balance issues with free value that survivors can get, but that is not the topic of this discussion.I know he cannot down with his free hit, but his free hit puts you into an immediate disadvantage when looping
No more than any other insta down or perma injure effects or stealth effects that get you an early injure. People need to learn to play injured more. If you took it away he'd just plain suck having to get two m1 hits tbh. That simply takes too long nowadays.
you are left with fewer options unless you run DH
Deep wound so you can't, though that can be removed but they'd need to then do something else for his removal mechanic. But using perks to exhaust survivors also counters DH so its not like its an exclusive counter.
If it is a case of the way the ability is coded preventing it being a skill shot of some form, then either the ability needs to be rebuilt
Wasting time reworking a popular, fun, perfectly fine and functioning killer that has average stats is completely pointless and a waste of time. He is not a problem. He is a modern designed killer for modern DBD, frankly he fits how the game has been balanced and changed for faster paced games than practically every killer in the game. This is the route DBD has been heading with its current balancing tbh, where killers need to be designed like this to keep up. That's not a flaw with the killer, its a flaw with the game decisions catering to bad players and one sided balancing.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061592#Comment_4061592
I've seen you drop this opinion in both active Ghoul threads, although your wording here is much harsher and illustrates that your statement in the other thread about "very bias and emotional replies" from other people should not exclude yourself. Be fair here.
Turn his LoS-based free hit into a skill shot, hell, even reduce how long he is locked in animation after landing it, and he'll remain high-tier for good players, but stop being an annoyance at middling MMR when clearly sloppy players are able to get unearned downs.
Just want to clarify, I am fully aware that good Ghouls can do some insane stuff that is very much skill based. Ghoul needs the skill floor increasing, but the skill ceiling and power at the top to be untouched imo.Maybe look at the previous responses for context before making assumptions? Im agreeing with and reinforcing someones counter argument for why people are picking ghoul and other mobility killers. There's no bias (i dont play ghoul and play 50/50) or emotion here apart from what you're applying to my comment yourself. We all know there's a massive illogical bias against certain killers on here, that's what i was referring to with Mandy.
It's just a fact he counters the most powerful but most boring and un-interactive survivor strategy against most of the roster, shift-w, and the moment they are forced to loop most survivors arent good at it so he (and blight) gets complained about. You will notice everything that limits shift-w gets massive hate from survivors on here.
Im sure they said they tried that, or something similar with his power during creation and it was awful and didnt really work, probably due to game design limitations. The free hit isn't that great anyway, he still has to down you as an M1 killer and thats what survivors are best against. If we are going to argue against "unearned downs" are we going to also argue against all the unearned stuff survivors gets too? That logic seems to only get applied to killers, never survivors.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
One of the factors that players also tend to not enjoy about the ghoul is the amount of people playing as them. They are probably one if the easiest if not the easiest killer to use on a controller which probably makes his usage rate very high among console players let alone pc. Its one thing to play against a nurse or blight and get stomped, or the occasional legion round that you just have to slog through, but to play against ghoul every 1-6 rounds gets fairly frustrating. I have ghoul prestiged to 100 as a big fan of Rize from the anime but i completely avoid using the character simply because they are overplayed and everytime i go to use it im like their 4th ghoul in a row so they just stand there at a hook and wait.
If he took more skill to use even on controller his numbers might drop to more manageable numbers and he wouldnt be as annoying to face. (not hard to face as ive won against just as many ghouls as ive lost to)
(Also please add Shanoa as a legendary skin for Trevor Belmont :D)
is the amount of people playing as them
Hard not to when most killers feel awful to play in the direction the game has gone. It's a consequence of balancing for bad survivors that leads to restricted killer choices.
(Also please add Shanoa as a legendary skin for Trevor Belmont :D)
BHVR please save this poor soul already!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061219#Comment_4061219
Maybe he's played so much because every survivor has an exhaustion perk that forces killers to hold W longer every single chase and he largely ignores that. Shocking, I know. People actually want to engage with the videogame instead of passively losing to pre-running.
As usual, anything that counters their easy brainless shift-w gameplay gets hated on. Most players are shockingly bad at looping so they overly rely on it to have decent chases. It's the most boring and un-interactive gameplay to deal with and way too effective on most killers for how easy it is
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@Mandy said:
what would you suggest? If kill rates and dc rates are average - where do you suggest we look data wise to see where there's a problem? We do know a few bugs with the character also contribute to a few issues, such as the animation problem.
You are going to get some VERY bias and emotional replies that are more about nerfing something people irrationally hate for the sake of it rather than actual useful feedback for balancing. Bare that in mind, because seeing the more playable killers nerfed constantly isn't a good thing when you should be bringing up the poorer performing ones instead.
I'd focus on making how you are supposed to play against him more clear to people instead of nerfing him because of forum complaints that only represent a miniscule number of people.
As you said, he has average stats, so direct nerfs make no sense. It's just a fact that he has a natural counter to how most survivors play, "shift-w" running away (strong against most killers) instead of looping where he is weaker and cant make as much use of his power, just like blight, who also sees the same type of complaints. From my games both with and against, most players don't seem to adapt how they play against them because they take meta perks used for making distance and overly rely on those to extend chase because of how easy it is to do so against most killers.
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Because he counters shift-w which is all most survivors can do. Same goes for blight.
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Slowdown meta is because of gen speeds. You already have an anti 3 gen mechanic… also just dont 3 gen yourselves?
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@Pasi said:
@Shinkiro I’m not trying to replace kill pressure. I agree removing a survivor is always the strongest play.
The idea is just to slightly smooth early snowball without forcing perk choices.
If it’s small enough to not break high MMR, it might still reduce the feel-bad 3-minute games in mid MMR.@Emeal I completely agree that players will always optimize up to whatever line the system creates. That’s just how competitive games work.
My intention isn’t to “chain” killers or remove agency. It’s more about shifting early-game incentives slightly without preventing any decision.
You can still tunnel. You can still secure a kill early. The system just offers a small alternative pressure source.I also agree that if something like this was ever implemented, it would need to be looked at alongside gen pacing and high-level survivor strength. Otherwise it risks creating new imbalance instead of smoothing volatility.
Moreover I can see how this is a nightmare for BHVR to adress. Since they know it is a problem, I hope whatever they do, it focuses on reducing volatility without removing agency from either side.Except it won't do that, 10s does nothing to actually combat half decent early gen efficiency snowballing the match, therefore it won't change the optimal thing for killers to do if they are so inclined, kill survivors.. And you won't need it if survivors just aren't doing gens either so its also harder for bad teams to deal with. Basekit changes are inherently volatile to balance. And its why they shouldnt keep adding them.
It doesn't address the real problem, gen progression needs to be rebalanced, capped and prevented from stacking so gens dont fly first and foremost. Fix the issues rather than try to Band-Aid it.
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Bring a luck offering if you want to self unhook then.
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I wasn't playing him before, and I certainly won't now. I'd rather keep current trickster.
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It was intentional because the auto aim would linger on the survivor causing you to grab them instead of being able to aim at the environment around them.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057801#Comment_4057801
I like how someone proposes a system which gives killers a basekit buff with no downsides, but because it has limits, it's suddenly "punishing the killer". If you want to double-hook someone under this system… go ahead? It's STILL objectively better than tunneling is now.
So a weaker Basekit Grim Embrace? Why dont you just use the Perk??
Because that would take a perk slot. AND you could still run it. I assume the effects would stack, like if you use BT as a survivor under the current system. This isn't rocket science.
These are the people they listened to when they killed the prior PTBs, lol
If you're going to quote someone atleast quote the right person please.
No downside? You mean apart from trying to make killers play in specific ways (again) for some very miniscule buff? If its worth ignoring then its not worth implementing in the first place. It does virtually nothing for anyone except for the fast mobility and lethal killers anyway so nothing changes for anyone else. But by all means buff my blight, ghoul etc at the start of the match if you want, but it won't do what people want it to do. Removing a player simply gives far more value for most of the killer roster.
Short gen block is near worthless and longer gen block either gets in the way of your perks or is oppressive to survivors. Any meaningful incentive will just be cried about by survivors anyway until it ends up as a worthless "buff" and ends up being a net benefit for them or only the strongest/fastest killers.
We don't need more basekit changes, they are inherently volatile to balance and overcomplicate the gameplay.. The game is fine when there isnt a skill level mismatch.
Edit: Also you know it wont stack lol, stacking gen block duration aint gonna happen.
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@Pasi said:
@Shinkiro That’s a valid point.
It might indeed be too weak in its current form to meaningfully compete with tunneling as the more efficient option.I also really appreciate the feedback that it’s perceived as a punishment rather than a bonus. That was never the intention. The goal wasn’t to restrict tunneling or dictate gameplay, but to create a mathematically viable alternative that preserves momentum without forcing an early 3v1.
@Emeal I agree that psychology and MMR expectations play a huge role. Tunneling often feels “necessary” because killers expect gens to fly, and that expectation reinforces itself. My thought was that if hook-spread generated tangible momentum, it might gradually shift that expectation.
From the feedback so far, it seems my proposal is simply too weak to make spreading hooks attractive — and because of that, it’s still interpreted as a penalty instead of earned pressure.
I’m genuinely curious about the broader perspective here:
Would you be interested in a system that rewards hook-spread with stronger momentum tools as a real alternative to early tunneling?
Or do you feel the current state of the game is already in the right place?It's going to be a punishment to killer no matter what, you are fundamentally nerfing their ability to do their objective, the strength the incentives would have to be aren't going to be allowed. And the punishment would never be allowed/done to the survivor side to counter balance because of the narrative that survivor is "weak" when it is not a role problem, but a player problem..
There's no "balancing" this because it already is as close as you can realistically get without reworking the game from the ground up, we're already on the knifes edge. Both sides have the tools required to gain pressure towards their objective and denying the opposing sides. But killers have routinely had their options nerfed and stripped away leading to the current environment where you feel like you need to play specific characters, in specific ways, with specific perks to feel like the game isn't lopsided right from the start. Killer players are simply adapting to how survivors have demanded the game be balanced, but most survivors won't do the same.
All these "balancing" talks ultimately lead to "nerf killer and buff survivor". The problem is MMR mismatching and survivors demanding bandaids to their poor gameplay rather than improving. You can't keep balancing for the weakest survivors because then you break the game further up and that just bleeds back down to said players. You don't see strong survivor players complaining about tunnelling because they understand why its done and why its needed.
This isnt an even sided team game, there is too much RNG, hidden effects, nuance, player skill differences and many other variables to keep going any further in the direction BHVR have been going. The game can simply snowball too fast from good gen efficiency that often the best strategy just happens to be the same as your win condition, killing survivors.
The early game already massively favours survivors, it's when they are strongest. Killers have to claw pressure back however they can or they will simply lose to half competent survivors. The game is balanced when you play against appropriately skilled survivors.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058958#Comment_4058958
I disagree.
The players can, in fact, change. For example, we could, I don't know, stop vetoing EVERY. Single. Update. BHVR is trying to implement?
Half of the QOL stuff was removed because the community moaned and wanted nothing to do with it.
The game can change, and the devs CAN do changes, but they have to stop listening to all the overwhelmingly negative people. And I bet if they do that, then everyone starts crying that they aren't being listened to.
Half of the QOL stuff was removed because the community moaned and wanted nothing to do with it.
If this is the anti killer PTB then it wasnt even "QoL" it was just blatant decisions to gut killer gameplay and unnecessarily hugely buff survivor. Major gameplay changes are not QoL, that is a balancing update and basically none of it was thought through at all, especially not from a killer perspective. It was opposed for very good reasons, it was absolutely riddled with problems and fundamentally flawed.
QoL updates are minor, convenient things like, making perks easier to read and understand, which they are currently implementing. Or bulk BP spending.