Shinkiro
Shinkiro
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I agree with this one.
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Moaning about Friends to the end? Really? It's not even that good, its a mid aura with a weak expose thats countered by vigil constantly.
This is a SWF problem though with the unfair external communication. So much killer stuff relies on the surprise that its in play or lack of survivor information to get value from it that most of it is mid to garbage or barely taken precisely because theres almost certainly some of the survivors in some sort of SWF so you're already starting at potentially half value. Then we all just take more slowdown instead…
Are we going to show killers when all the survivor stuff is in play thats hidden too then? Stuff thats considerably more game altering? No more guessing about DS, OTR, Deliverance, Endurance, Vigil, Boons, etc etc etc? The list goes on!
Lack of information is part of the game. And its why SWF is problematic. Otherwise its time to ultra gigabuff a ton of kiler perks.
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The usual, survivors abusing and using the defensive things offensively, except now on steriods making the games super miserable for killers not evening trying to tunnel and they even have god mode now….
My initial reaction? Play something else, if i bother playing i'd be playing survivor because it would be easier than ever. Why would i ever stress playing killer ever again? Would likely uninstall though, i got the game to play killers, survivor gameplay isnt that fun or exciting in anything but tiny doses since im by myself.
These changes were in no way good for the game, frankly its at uninstall levels of obsurdity and would rightfully deserve a killer exodus tbh, happened before can happen again. It was all just trying to bandaid the actual problem, and thats bad survivors. You ask any good survivor player who isnt one sidedly bias and they will agree none of it is needed.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034385#Comment_4034385
yes but nerf it and it beomes useless like krasues "vault"
People will absolutely complain about every actually good thing on killers until its nerfed into uselessness or absolute clunkiness and feels awful to use. I havent played Krasue since they nerfed her, feels bad and clunky to use. I dont really play ghoul tbh but ive gone against him alot (and escaped alot) and i also think he is fine as he is. But i dont think people will ever get off the hate train about him just like they didnt get off the hate train for Skull Merchant and we know where that went, and she was garbage in comparison.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032907#Comment_4032907
I only mention her because she was changed so you would assume people would at least try her out.
She's a poisoned chalice at this point due to survivors, why would people ever touch her again unless they are hardcore SM mains like Pixelbush?
She wasnt even popular or common (or even really that strong) post rework (SM 2.0) even when survivors cried endlessly about her. She is still gutted and vastly weaker than even from that mediocre state so why play her? Nothing has really changed so why waste time when we all know she's still garbage?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031304#Comment_4031304
Honestly that’s what I thought they were going to be doing…Focused on cleaning the bugs up…I just don’t get it…
Yeah thats what i thought too, instead they fix virtually nothing, especially when the killer side is plagued with tons of issues related to their powers and seriously needs major fixes, and we get 'operation: survivor buffs' instead. Almost as if that was the actual goal..
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Yep, why stress and sweat every game when you can chill and play survive by daylight and get easy escapes. The problem has always been poor and terrible teammates, not survivor power level.
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Yes, punishments arent effective unless they actually punish so much that it corrects the problem. Just have to make sabotaging the game to get out faster a bannable offense as well.
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For starters why would you DOUBLE giganerf him at loops where he is weakest? That's just ridiculous.
I disagree, because he needs to be 4.6 otherwise theres parts of the map and loops that he will never get hits at because his power is a detriment and doesnt work there due to loop/map layout and every chase will inevitably be brought there. His power is also more restrictive and requires way more preemptive thought than ghouls does and you can very much counter it, using geometry for instance, its not a free hit.
Hard nerfing him because of a handful of dedicated players can use him oppressively isnt a good idea. The average blight is perfectly fine to go against. We should be making the average survivor play better instead of continually handholding them and gutting killer over and over. The vast majority of my hits are people just doing shift-w which like ghoul is what he is good against, because i swear its all survivors can do since they dont learn to loop. Which is why people dont like going against them, they have to actually think how to play the game for once.
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Yeah kinda, few killer matches here and there but little motivation to really touch the game with the way its going. Just doing dailies as survivor then challenges not really caring about the outcome then going to do other things.
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@Choaron said:
I'm facing nothing but the sweatiest nurses, ghouls and blights
Sure you are. I've lost count on the number of times I've witnessed whiny players making such claim for the past 5 years.
Its just as BS as "every match is camping, tunneling and slugging" crying too, which they are certainly not anywhere close to that as its uncommon.
Although with the direction the game is going, unless they release more blights, nurse, ghoul tier killers then it will inevitably come true because playing anything else will eventually become pointless and miserable as survivor become gods in the true power role.
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Yeah… i have almost no desire to play the game with the direction they seem to want to go. If it dies, it dies i guess.
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I really don't get why they have to complicate the abandon system. If you dont escape via doors (or hatch for the "draw") then it should be treated as a loss regardless of the circumstance (except 4 survivor DCs for killer) and MMR decreases… its not hard BHVR.
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@Mr_K said:
Because the carrot is better than the stick?
Except there's literally no carrot lol
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@Pulsar said:
They arent out to get you lol.
The Killer powers being unbalanced could just as easily be used to talk about the powers being too weak, or Killers being addon dependant.
Realistically though thats not it at all, its unlikely killers are uninstalling for those reasons, they are infinitely more likely to just play better killers. Unless they are rare one IP killer only players who probably can be counted on your hand.
Make no mistake, those are certainly "waahh killer is OP and unfun" options.
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I guarantee the third one was ping ponging between two survivors, which isnt even tunneling at all. Maybe he realised that was a really stupid thing to say on stream and chose not too to save face.
Tunneling is just hard focusing and become 'tunnel visioned' on one survivor until they are out of the match. Every other definition is just made up to give negative labels to the killer doing their objective to justify anger, bias and frustration that arent justified.
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Zero map pressure, weak to usual survivor tactics (Pre run for example), long TTK for the effort involved, not rewarding enough to play.
Modern DBD requires you to have things that he doesnt (mobility, slow down, anti loop) to make the game enjoyable and not frustrating. As with most of the roster, why play them over the better, stronger killers who actually fit current DBD?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021788#Comment_4021788
I do not think individual killer buffs, any perks or base-kit band-aids will ever change fundamental flaws in core game mechanics. Only actual changes to core game loop can actually fix issues
I actually agree with this. Unless or until there are changes to the core game nothing significant will change.
I've actually proposed a "hook donation" system in the past, where survivors basically share the first hook in a pool, and "second hook" and "death hook" are individual. It doesn't change the goal of eliminating someone as fast as possible, but it significantly alters how killers will get there. You can't just camp or tunnel through effectively 6 hook stages without eating so much time that you lose, and it drives the game toward getting hooks as fast as possible.
I doubt that will ever happen, but it would be an example of how to change the meta. Although, I think people would still dislike it because they don't like change, among other things.
If devs want killers to hook different survivors then it has to be the goal, this goal should be rewarded, not with some BPs and a bit of bloodlust, it should be game-changing incentives.
I think BP incentives are a harmless incentive that shouldn't be controversial. It isn't going to "fix" anything, by a long shot, but it also is one of the few ways that also doesn't impact game balance in any way. It might only incentivise a small group, but I think it's worth it given that it basically costs nothing, and doesn't cause a balance problem.
You as a player should want to play this way, not restricted to.
My main disagreement is mostly this: we already learned a long time ago that comeback mechanics need limits or it causes problems. It's why I brought up things disabling in end game, which I've always thought was reasonable. But without those limitations, the game was pretty different after the gates were powered. Putting those restriction in was necessary.
The main problem with something like tunneling is that there isn't a limitation in using it, at least not a limitation that people will admit to. And, unfortunately, that limits the conversation in an awful lot of areas.
You can't really have a discussion about "how to fix m1 killers", for example, without someone using it to tunnel. Even if we went extreme, like "after each hook the trapper can teleport to any gen in the map exactly once (like Freddy)". Sounds good, fixes some of the large map and traversal issues, and can cut down the time between chases.
Except, people will just use it to slow walk across the map, kick a gen, and teleport back the instant they get an unhook notification to tunnel.
At some point, those tactics need to have limits, or people will do them excessively, especially if it wins games. There was no buff we could give to stop 3 genning, it has to be limited to get people to stop. Tunneling is the same way, unfortunately.
I think BP incentives are a harmless incentive that shouldn't be controversial. It isn't going to "fix" anything, by a long shot, but it also is one of the few ways that also doesn't impact game balance in any way. It
mightonly incentivise a small group, but I think it's worth it given that it basically costs nothing, and doesn't cause a balance problem.But the changes they are being used to bribe people for ARE a balance issue. BP is a fine extra external incentive if you want to err on the side of caution for killer compensation but the actual meaningful compensation NEEDS to be IN THE GAME ITSELF, and it needs to actually be worthwhile or nothing changes. People are going to double down because there is no incentive at all not to tunnel because apparently (to no ones surprise) survivors cried about killers getting only half decent benefits and we cant have that in our survivor game where only they are allowed good things can we?
Even then, the number is absolutely laughable. Really shows how much the team cares (not) about killer players. They can try adding some 0's on the end and maybe people might care enough to sabotage their own games. Gimme 10k a hook and ill let little timmy run around longer, otherwise i get more BP just playing properly…
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021776#Comment_4021776
It can’t be nothing burger. This changes removing opportunistic tunneling probability. I expect more killer will hardtunnel even more. That’s ridiculous this changes leading to nothing just because it didn’t hit what you yourself want to see in the game
Yeah, these changes encourage more hard tunneling and more proxy camping because theres no incentive not too, it'll still be more optimal and you're essentially penalised for not doing it so why not go harder?
The killer incentives have to be good enough to make choosing to ignore the unhooked survivor the more rewarding play, and the incentives have to be things that contribute to winning and playing the game and not useless garbage like 750BP and a pointless bloodlust that literally most killers will end up cancelling almost immediately. Literally nothing else is worth bothering with unless it gives at least equal value to progressing toward the killer objective or denying the survivor objective longer, otherwise none of these changes should go through.
We can see from Japans stats these changes are not mechanically needed for the game itself, it is a player problem, so if BHVR want to gigabuff survivor survivability they need to give incentives and buff killers in a way that equals it out on their end.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020664#Comment_4020664
they really didn't know why the game has the highest slug rate when can always die under a pallet with many LOS blockers where a teamate can save you from . Like are they really that unaware of how their own game works .
Yes they are that unaware we see it all the time, especially when twitch chat was literally telling them and they either purposefully or ignorantly blew it off and avoided addressing it because it would further invalidate their "data".
The stream was just a load of nonsense and contradicting themselves to justify changes to buff survivors. We really need anti-slug for 2% of games? By their own data and opinion about slugging for pressure, slugging literally isn't even a problem at all for example. It shows they are responding based on crying and not actual game balancing.
I cant remember who he was, but It felt like one of the guys on stream knew most of this was BS and was told to stay quiet. He had that kind of look on his face.
There a clear double standard where they will handhold survivors to their hearts content but then call compensation for killers "hand holding".
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Twitch drops have been fine, but I have never once ever gotten a newsletter when they contained reward codes. Can we just stop putting codes in emails that people never receive and just have a post on the forum for them? Where we can get a link to redeem them? As i assume they are personal codes.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018223#Comment_4018223
Yeah no. Having those even more insane penalties would obliterate solo queue entirely. Because no one would even want to play solo queue. Basically requiring people to play Killer or SWF just to play the game at all should not be a thing.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue Survivor who has no SWF to play with.
It would literally make no difference to me because i don't rage quit my games like a child throwing a tantrum.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue survivor who has no SWF to play with.
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I think the game generally isnt one sided one way or the other currently (a few times in history perhaps before my time), and i think people just keep getting obsessed with the us vs them mentality and keep perpetuating it.
Realistically, assuming players are competent(using bad players as an argument is pointless), the game is survivor 'favoured' (i.e the game is set up with them in the advantageous position to win at the start) and the killer role simply has the agency of being the power role to disrupt that and turn it around.
Im sure i'll get downvoted by the survivor mains who will only ever blame the killer for everything, but the game is literally built on the killer having to play to regain the advantage over the survivor team.
Realistically debating over whether the game is "killer sided" is pointless because of the absolutely massive differences between survivor skill levels. Its going to feel killer sided to worse players (and those paired up with them) and more fairly balanced to the good players who don't have the same issues. It's mostly just personal perspectives and negativity bias forming 90% of arguments.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
It is funny to me that I get more Downvotes than upvotes since I speak for the sake of Soloque Survivors here.
It doesn´t affect the Killer that much if a Survivor dcs on the first down. He will get a 4k more likely.
SWFs won´t be affected that much either, since they play with that guy and can dc together or ask him what is wrong with him.
The problem with the dc on first down is a huge problem for Soloque and I still didnt hear a single point why it should be okay to do so.
You can´t say the Killer is tunneling or slugging or facecamping the moment you get downed first and all you do is throwing your teammates under the bus.
Of course you'll get downvoted, those people want to ruin matches without any real consequence when they clearly shouldnt even be playing the game at all.
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People abuse both downvotes and upvotes. But you either have both or neither, because only having upvotes gives the wrong imnpression when people mindlessly upvote no matter how wrong or stupid the comment is just because they agree with it (and vice versa for downvotes voting against anything they disagree with even if its right).
Frankly if you dont care to actually post then you shouldnt have any influence on the discussion.
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@CrossX2 said:
I just realized with this post that some people don’t understand what fun is and take this game waaaay too serious.
Playing against tunneling and slugging is simply no fun.
Just had match with a killer. right after I got unhooked I ran into him, and he went for the other survivor. Omg whaaaat? He played very fair the whole match. He killed us all but it was just fun playing against him cause it just didn’t feel pointless.
If a killer targets you and tunnels you, it is 90% sure you will not win the game, unless you have a really good team. Which is mostly not the case.
If your argument is "its not fun" then prepare to have a massive chunk of stuff straight deleted from the game on both sides.
"Fun" is subjective. "Fun" is NOT any worthwhile criteria or justification for anything really because its inherently bias.
Lets say I dont find flashlights, medkits, toolboxes, endurance perks, second chance perks "fun" shall we start deleting or making "anti" systems for all these too? All these improve your chancing of winning like tunneling and slugging do for killers. Therefore they should be subject to the same criteria for balancing. See how nonsense "fun" is when you use it in an argument?
If you want to use nonsense subjective reasons for balancing then BOTH SIDES should get to do the same. Let the great gutting of everything begin!!!!
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@Colt45m said:
Don't see what the point is. If they take away dc players will just afk until killed. 🤷
They could.. if they want to be reported and banned :D the penalty should never go anyway regardless of anything.
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Welp, you're all welcome for my sacrifice as i finished it earlier!
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Well after i made a gen rush squad all DC within the first minute of the game i found the easy way to do this. Bots will actually go into the void alot and not try to exit while in chase. So get survivors to DC and farm hooks from the bots!
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017107#Comment_4017107
I agree with this actually. Having exhaustion reduced 66% is pretty bad. But the rest are fine because if you pick any killer without some kind of status the perks a waste. Or maybe just reduce the exhaustion recovery to like 30%.
People will still take it for a 30% reduction though while still causing the same issue. It's best to just decouple exhaustion modifiers from other things tbh. Make them their own perks with their own conditions and downsides. Easier to adjust and balance it all like that without other things getting caught up in it.
Recovering 66% faster from anything for free is still nuts though and it really should go down.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017079#Comment_4017079
Survivors never know what they're getting as far as killer so vigil isn't run all the time. Its fine. If they get bubba for example the perks a wasted slot practically.
I see it literally every game, multiples of it even, people dont even use it for most of the effect, they just want the exhaustion reduction so they can spam the brain-dead zero skill strong exhaustion perks. The rest is just extra that just happens to nerf the killer as a side benefit.
It does need looking at, and it does need addressing in some way. I would just remove exhaustion from it tbh, so the perks themselves can be better adjusted and balanced as and when needed without having vigil affect them all the time and then the rest of the status effects and their perks/addons are more usable unless survivors specifically want protection from non-exhaustion status.
They could then possibly introduce other perks like blood rush, based around exhaustion that have conditions and side effects rather than just reducing the most beneficial survivor status constantly for free.
This would be a waaaay healthier change.
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Frankly if they are going to make challenges that require survivor to do things first that they can avoid doing entirely before you can progress them, then either interacting with the event should be mandatory towards objective completion in all event games. Or, the survivor interaction challenges have to be alot longer (as they are far easier to do) than the killer ones so there are more opportunities for progress.
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@Colt45m said:
Vigil is fine. We need counters to status effects in dbd otherwise killers will just abuse them and they'll be meta.
Counters yes of course, but a single perk shouldn't be neutering practically every single status effect a killer can inflict, by both powers and perks in an all in one solution with literally no downside at all. Vigil does far too much, far too effectively for a single perk slot. It needs nerfing into the ground so status matters (and un-nerfing some for killer so they are worth using) again or reworked massively and/or its effects split up like i suggested in the first post of this thread.
It's NOT a healthy perk for the game.
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@tes said:
I don’t support that massive us vs them that gathered here, but I’m truly curious why some killers/survivors try harding during events. Because they are just bad designed for this and you aren’t usually gonna encounter a good challenge on opposite side
If you are really playing for wins, go to normal mode. Let people do their quests in this halloween, it’s basically a lack of challenge when you sweating against people who aren’t even trying to outplay you
The underlying core of the game is exactly the same, the win conditions are still the same, the game is still the same regardless of whatever twists an event puts on.
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Distortion does counter lethal at game start as others have said. The spawn changes actually devalued half the effect of lethal tbh as you should know roughly where survivors are anyway.
Now distorion is a healthy stealth perk where you are rewarded with aura protection for interacting with the killer rather than essentially being immune and hiding all game (unhealthy). Getting chased is part of the game.
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I think it should just be reworked into something else entirely tbh so status effects are actually meaningful again, and so exhaustion actually matters. I think this type of effect is more suited to an item than a perk (comes at an opportunity cost of not bringing a medkit or toolbox). But if it must be a perk they should be separate ones for each status so they can be adjusted more fairly, blanket perk that works on every status is just stupid design. Especially one with literally no downsides, id expect vigil to have a hefty penalty for the power it has right now.
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@AdamZ said:
It could have been chearers, cheaters usually crash the servers at endgame if they are in a losing position.
They can do it from a winning position too, they still get the escape points and all their earned BP while the killer loses everything so they do it out of spite.
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The concept of protecting a Survivor from being tunneled out was a great addition.
Keyword being concept. The PTB absolutely shouldnt have gone live. The PTB very much had game killing potential, anyone not biased knows that, it fundamentally broke, gutted and limited killer gameplay far beyond the scope of a QoL update. It was fundamentally flawed and filled with horribly thought out and implimented ideas.
It was just 'Gut every none S tier killer: The patch'. The compensation in no way made up for the lost strategy and agency of killers and survivors were in no way fairly counter balanced with any of this in mind. And of course in typical fashion killers were doubled punished with nerfs and survivors weaponising the mechanics against them. (To no ones surprised except BHVRs apparently).
It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction patch to stem all the survivor whining and not a patch made for the overall health of the game treating both sides equally.
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@terumisan said:
buff the low tiers to dark lord level and you'll have variety
This. Make more of the roster better, more fun and more viable to play in modern DBD and we'll see more variety.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008592#Comment_4008592
As person who playing in coordinated sfw sometimes I can tell that’s won’t affect teams who are already hard to go against when you play as killer. It’s not really reducting errors - just encourage effectiveness. Aura read of each other doesn’t provide some 30 sec of endurance or other bs, but provides opportunities to feel they are in team, playing… well, in team
Let’s be honest - if we talking about skill, solo Q deserves some base kits for aura read of each other, and it’s hard not affecting sfw because they aren’t separated. It’s pretty fair if it’ll be a tool for Solo q that won’t deny some of their opportunity to play such situations as well as some sfw. I don’t find it problematic as killer main myself.
Game is no more balanced for solo players. It’s balanced around team play and I found it more fair than when game was just released. U can’t really carry whole team if other 3 are potatoes anymore. But solo Q was a lil fell behind over it - because they didn’t receive meaningful compensation, while MMR still trash. Many people can literally stuck in cycles of lose matches because someone continuously sabotage in random team. And they need tools, until our community will be ready for actual comms. I prefer this system to any anti-tunnel, because at least it’s not putting me in line as when I play killer and don’t provide direct boring instruction of game paceTheres SWFs of varying degress of skill, it definately buffs the worse ones that are prone to errors, which in turn creates more SWFs that are harder to go against in general, but it equally buffs potential efficiency for any SWF.
I think we're getting to the point where if you want to make sweeping changes (aka buffs) to core basekit for the sake of solo q, queues are probably gonna have to be seperated so buffs intended for solo q are infact only for solo q. Otherwise you still have to balance every game for SWF which means more and more killer compensation, which just continues the stupid power creeping of basekit features. Which is why im against continual basekit buffs as the game is set up right now.
But ultimately, nothing will really work in any game ever where your teammates are potatoes and throw, because most problems are generally created by players not game mechanics.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007734#Comment_4007734
Are you sure about that:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C24ASN60DFXV/image.png
Coz its still like that. This is one of the rare days the extra server is on too
I was absolutely not waiting for killer queues for that long across most of the weekend. There was a mix of killer and survivor bonus along with no bonus. The late evenings definitely are always faster for killers though due to the increase in SWFs.
Also this entire thread is just mostly 5 pages of utterly worthless bickering over nonsense just like every worthless bias thread that gets posted over these topics. The mods really should start just deleting them as spam and for inciting arguments. There is never any constructive discussion, its nothing but bait threads by angry people.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008191#Comment_4008191
Guaranteeing a free hook trade in every save situation unless the entire team leaves gens to bodyblock would just encourage proxy camping even harder.
If every save is a unsafe trade the problem isnt perks my guy.
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008191#Comment_4008191
Can agree, but I can’t say it’s a best time for such change. They lied to the community, telling they’ll revert everything related to anti systems in PTB. That’s the only issue I have with current OTR rn.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008192#Comment_4008192
IMO, proxycamp is always encouraged by this game. Even with ptb changes it was the most effective way of play no matter what. It’s how this game simply works.
I tried to test new OTR and would like to say the only thing you need for killer to lose you is OTR + Sprint Burst, and one hook rescuer who will run to opposite direction from you dropping some fog vial (or you just using textures for losing LOS). Pair it with Resurgence and after this you have guarantee of 80 sec killer being unable to detect you by scratch marks, noise, or some aura build which is pretty popular. You also don’t lose this effect after doing conspicuous action, so you can safely work on some generator or heal teammates without fear to lose effect. New maps changes not messing with this perk at all, as I noticed as well
Removing endurance is indeed controversial topic, but here is just few takes to notice:
- High mobility killers or those who is strong in chase can easily tank additional hit, so this endurance wasn’t that big deal for them. Aura build is a huge counterplay of old OTR as well, especially on such type of killers. So the actual great benefit you have is usually over mid-low tier killers from this perk, from who avoid tunneling isn’t a huge deal.
- Old OTR was related with conspicuous action, so if somehow you were able to lose LOS with killer for specific period, you were always in a period of paranoia associated with the possibility of actions necessary for yourself/the team, such as sitting at the generator or healing yourself. Such survivor in solo Q simply behave as burden and it were canceling whole person out of match. Is it really… that great?
- If killer were proxycamping and returned to hook, realising survivor don’t make any noises killer were just able to make a hit during base kit BT, wasting whole slot.
I still prefer DS over OTR anyway, maybe that’s why I build such opinion. For me OTR were always useful only in two cases - when killer were bodyblocking for BT timer, or when you purposefully use it for tanking hits for your teammates, body blocking killer in your own favour. It always more like a mindgame tool, where some players on killer just can reconsider their strat. But for actual tunnelers, especially if they consciously were playing high tier killers? OTR isn’t a big deal. DS always was better solution, despite having 1 usage with shorter duration. Because when u are getting tunneled, the most important is time. And DS is always more time wasteful for the killer rather than OTR.
Everyone will have a different opinion on this, so I won't even comment on whether the developers are should to keep the current version or return to the old one. I'll just say that the new OTR works and helps in a way that no other anti-tunnel perks have ever been able to - it provides stealth, which is the best counterplay against hight tier killer. Giving this perk elusion status effect will make it truly shine. So calling it useless is really huge exaggeration
Oh yeah i agree now isnt the time, but its definitely a healthy change to anti-tunnel that should happen in the future.
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@tes said:
make some aura perks base kit. Like kindred without reading killer aura, emphaty and emphatic connection (but within terror radius of the killer), always highlight aura of 1 gen for survivor and analogue of troubleshooter (also without killer aura read)
I think starting with this at least def should help.
For adding some resemblance of chat BHVR must introduce really strong but fair moderation and I don't think that actually possible
That's still a proportional buff to SWF, you cannot have basekit buffs to survivor without basekit buffs to SWF. It just makes communicating and coordinating ever easier for them and they now have visual aids to help on top of voice chat. A reduction of errors due to all the hand holding is still a good sizable buff to them, they can still mess up alot of the time, they are still only human. You just amplify their natural advantages.
A SWF would even use these features better than randoms in solo q ever would.
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@Brimp said:
The problem is there's too many uncertainties. The new killer is extremely good at tunneling yes but its more a necessary evil to even ALLOW weaker killers to do even remotely well. They tried to give incentives and forced punishments, and they turned out as well as you expected. There's no one all "fix" for tunneling and there should never be one cause that's a fundamental thing the game NEEDS.
It's like recently where they shrunk maps but in turn removed a LOT of dead zones when that was a thing that NEEDED to be there. Now every chase is guaranteed pallet chaining if you don't have a good enough power between tiles or even in tiles. This in turn FORCES more killers to tunnel as every first chase now WILL be very long if they have the littlest semblance of how to run a killer.Yeah there's are too many issues and discrepancies within the game and roster to have such drastic anti-killer measures that were proposed. The ideal balancing for killers is realistically A tier, which arent massively hindered by core game changes. We'd need every killer to be at that level before sweeping changes can be made across the board or most of the roster is just unplayable or just frustratingly unfun to play and will see little play while most people flock to the strongest least impacted killers to actually enjoy the game.
The rate the game is going all future killers are gonna have to have mobility, catch up mechanics, slowdown mechanics and some anti loop all in their kits in varying degrees to be viable. You can see this trend with ghoul and krasue, more killers are gonna have to release at A tier strength and i think BHVR might know it too. Killers will have to be stronger and easier to play if survivors want to demand more and more hand holding and thats the trend they have started to set in the last couple releases.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008108#Comment_4008108
Good thing there aren't 20 aura perks that have been steadily powercrept for years on top of shrinking maps, removing fog & vegetation, and nuking fog vials & stealth perks. Yea just let me stealth away from the hook while injured in this environment.
There can easily be changes that encourage this kind of defensive perk design rather than obnoxious endurance. Shifting to encouraging chasing the unhooker without penalising the killer and without having the unhooked interfere with no consequences because they have to slip away to get value from defensive perks would be a good and healthy change.
It should also encourage survivors to learn how to unhook properly
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I think moving away from second chance endurance perks that get weaponized is a good thing healthy change tbh. They are never used for their intended purpose, if anything they are pro tunnelling perks because being used to take hits incentivises hooking you again.
Perks that let you stealthily slip away while the unhooker takes chase are far more healthy for the game. Killers won't waste time if they dont know where you are and go after who they can see. Of course nothing is going to help you if bad survivors decide to play poorly and unhook you right in a killers face anyway.
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Toolboxes and Medkits have a stranglehold on survivor items. While they are always the best and most consistent value items nothing else really matters tbh, everything else is just a pointless gimmick bloodweb filler.
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Functionally you can't, because survivor itself isn't the issue, players are. Lack of skill, game sense and experience are all the main factors of why games go bad when these players are the majority of the team. Actually play killer and you'll see how swingy games are when you actually go against headless chickens one game and good solo q players the next who actually can loop and push gens and not throw the game making stupid plays and wasting time not doing anything.
Any buffs also just buff SWF even more, even something as simple as showing some auras just improves their efficiency and reduces the chance of errors.
Survivor is actually fine when you and your team are decent with no obvious weak link in the group. Handholding survivors more and more will just stagnate any improvement of players as they are cushioned from their mistakes and they won't be able to learn and improve.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006185#Comment_4006185
This is literally what I mean! People DC because they see a killer that they dislike! That's why I would love a killer banning system.
Or maybe a system that gives you a pool of killers which both sides can ban one by one.
Personal problems and pettiness are no excuse for a horrid and senseless ban system that makes literally no sense to implement for the game and that will only ruin matchmaking and unfairly punish people for simply wanting to play their favourite killers. No one is entitled to cherry pick what they go against. If you don't like it then leave the match and suffer the relevant penalties.
But hey, i guess we should ban all items, exhaustion perks, second chance perks, healing perks too because we don't want to play against those either. :)
The absolute last thing this game needs is players having agency over what other people are allowed to even play as. We all know the exact killers 90% of people are gonna ban. The type of system only works in team based games where you select characters in the lobby anyway.
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You all won't be happy until he is literally unplayable.