ShamelessPigMain
ShamelessPigMain
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ahem
We have no information about how it's going to work. Don't panic until they release the actual details of the system.
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W e d o n ' t k n o w. They haven't released any details other than it's existence so we don't know anything about how it's going to work.
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They mentioned it, but they didn't go into detail. We don't know how it's going to work, much less any oversight systems being implemented.
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@Digwiid said:
Idk about this, my teammates have been pretty convincing so far with the stuff they keep doing in-game.
funniest thing i ever read
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They didn't divulge many details about how such a system would work. Let's hope BHVR takes a look at the quality of the player populace and makes it less player dependent.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2214522#Comment_2214522
Because travel time and searching time are arbitrary and depend on too many variables. That's why I'm stating the bare minimum requirements.
EDIT: In case you didn't notice, I also discounted travel time and search time for the generator.
Generators are big and loud with huge metal poles sticking up in the sky. Totems are deliberately secluded and don't take 80 seconds to complete.
Let's not forget that the whole point of small game is to cut down on searching time, so you don't have to investigate every nook and cranny. Even if you have totem spawns memorized, small game will tell you, with certainty, where they actually did spawn out of the many spawn configurations possible.
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Really, anything on nurse is overpowered if you have enough practice.
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@KelvSter02 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2214527#Comment_2214527
It's not robbing you. You're getting exactly what you should out of that perk if you run it. Considering that not running that perk would put you at a disadvantage (since you're lacking the counter) I don't know why you consider it as being robbed if you do run the perk when you're getting a clear use out of it. Besides, at the end of the day it's your choice whether to run the perk or not.
Small game is a hitman for totems. If I'm any smart, the choice that I'll exercise is to no longer run hex perks. That's my point; I don't get why that's so hard to grapple. Having one perk directly counter another whole set of perks on the other side is not a good idea for perk diversity. People will run small game to deal with the threat of hex perks (NOED included), smart people will stop running hex perks because they realize they're going to need devour to last more than a minute.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213412#Comment_2213412
These are fair points and well supported. I would assert that you choosing to talk about NOED is going to give the impression I took, even if that was not your goal. However, I would have to disagree with you a bit in regards to NOED specifically. The fact that NOED, alone so far among Perks, only activates at the end of the game makes Small Game less effective against it. You must be dedicated to getting ALL of the Totems to kill NOED, and while Small Game is certainly a useful tool for that purpose, it is rarely used for dedicated Totem hunting. A Map is still far superior. I submit that because of the unique nature of NOED, the Perk: Small Game is the least effective against it. Consider:
- Either the Small Game Survivor is dedicated primarily to hunting Totems (rare) or
- That same Survivor must still be alive and well when NOED finally activates and have time to look for it.
Small Game is best for targets (totems) of opportunity, and that is rarely going to be all of them. Maps are the best method for killing NOED aside from SWF who use the 5th Perk (Comms) to coordinate their destruction and count them down. I 100% agree that Small Game should have gotten a Totem counter on it. You will hear no argument against that from me. You will, however, find me somewhat unimpressed by the unhealthy focus placed on NOED. Of all the Insta-Down Perks/Powers it is by far the least dangerous and most easily dealt with. The only reason it holds its place of infamy is because Survivors are entitled and INCORRECTLY feel that since they brought the Generators up they deserve to get out. They somehow feel things ratcheting up n the final minute is horribly unfair. They clearly forget that the Killer has effectively played one Perk down the ENTIRE match for this heightened stress at the end, so it was paid for and dearly so. Moreover, everyone seems to forget that Horror movies are always darkest before the dawn. They always end in a roar not a whimper.
The new totem counter they added to small game is, to my thinking at least, a way to help coordinate the cleansing of all bones without communications. A big grapple survivors had with solo queue is that you don't always know which bones your teammates have done and haven't done, especially when your teammates range from hard carrying you to Dwights superglued to lockers.
I wouldn't call NOED the "most easily dealt with." Unlike devour hope or haunted grounds, which survivors can prevent from procing by just playing really well, NOED will activate when the survivors finish their objectives (not if you finish your objectives), and as long as there's a totem up, does so with stealth. The speed difference with NOED is pretty conspicuous, but the fact that its associated totem in the middle of the game is already pretty stealthy.
I frankly don't care about what survivors think. I frankly don't care about what killers think about survivors. You call them entitled, they call us entitled, I couldn't care less. But what I do care about is having a fun game, because if all the survivors quit then queue times are going to hit the moon. That especially means perks like NOED. NOED gives you an instant exposed on everybody and a considerable amount of speed for literally no work. In fact, if you don't do any work and let the generators get to 5 while sitting on one totem all game, you'll get it to proc. You have literally no agency of your own involved. I get what it's trying to do, being a helper perk to help you secure a few kills on games you didn't do well on, but if you didn't do well, you shouldn't be getting any kills. Perks are meant to augment your skill, but NOED rewards your lack of skill.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Kinda off topic (and a hot take too) but if someone thinks Small Game is a counter to Noed itself (Doesnt apply to other hex perks) then logically you must find all exhaustion perks fine due to the existence of Huntress Add ons aswell as Mindbreaker and Blood Echo.
In other words, it's not healthy to promote using one perk to counter another perk, because you get stuff like this. It's the same way you shouldnt need to use a perk just to counter a certain killer (which is very rarely used in arguements). Definitely on the controversial side like you Pigmain but to me you're right.
Well no, I never said either of them were fine. I think that the exhaustion add-ons should be removed (which they have), and mindbreaker and blood echo are already jokes.
The special thing about hex perks is that they're already based on RNG. You'll have exhaustion perks the entire game, but hex perks can be cleansed and removed. You're supposed to bank on luck, but small game throws RNGesus out of the window and flips you the bird.
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@KelvSter02 said:
Why should a perk be able to be completely countered without having to sacrifice anything. That's just way too easy and ruins the perk. You're basically saying "Why don't they just make it so that strong perks that have counters no longer need counters because I don't like the idea of having to use a perk slot." That's the whole point of a counter. It's your decision to sacrifice a perk slot in order to give yourself a specific advantage in a certain area. If they just gave you the counter for free, not in the form of a perk, in a way it's basically just giving you free perks. (If the counter happened to be a perk, which small game is.)
I don't quite remember saying that. What I do remember saying is that having it so that one perk can pretty much invalidate another perk on the other side is not a good idea, since it robs you both of a perk slot and chips away at perk diversity.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213442#Comment_2213442
Discounting travel time, it takes less time to cleanse all totems than it does to repair one generator (70 seconds and 80 seconds, respectively).
I don't see why you could discount travel time. It's a part of the process, in addition to actually scouting out where each totem is.
Plus, 70 seconds is still just 10 seconds short of completing a generator. There are a lot of better things you could have done in that time (like a generator, for example).
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213393#Comment_2213393
The last time I ran small game was when I just started playing the game.
Eventually you learn where all the totem spawns are and you don't need small game anymore.
Even the new totem spawns are easy to remember.
As a long time forever solo, I always find the time to look at all the spawn points.
And if I find 1 I break them, do I see a broken 1 I just remember it.
I always count how many totems are broken down, no matter if it was by my hands or a fellow survivor.
It not that hard to count to 5 (for me at least, but not higher tho 😬), that's why i never understood why people wanted a totem counter so badly.
Cause it's not that hard to do 5 totems imo 🤷♂️
Again, those spawns are randomized. It's a waste of time to have to check every single individual possible totem spawn to ensure that bones have spawned there, and if they have, to do them. Running around the map, looking in very nook and cranny isn't peak efficiency.
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@fogdonkey said:
It is not a counter to Noed. It is just a perk for players who like to search totems.
It'll help you coordinate the cleansing of all 5 totems, and to find and facilitate the cleansing of all 5 totems. If it helps you get a few hexes along the way, all the better.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213431#Comment_2213431
Yes, that's exactly what I said: Small Game helps, but it's not a requirement. Like how DH isn't a requirement when you're being chased by the killer, but it helps.
Right, but what I'm saying is that that aid cuts down on the RNG factor of totems, which is their main allure: high risk, high reward. Nobody goes into the game with the knowledge that ruin will stay up the entire game, but small game takes a bazooka to the hopes that it will stay up for a long, long time, and kills a perk slot in the process. All I want is 1 stack of huntress' lullaby before it gets cleansed.
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@Orion said:
You don't need Small Game to counter NOED, the same way you don't need it to counter any hex perk. It's a tool that assists in countering NOED. The true counter is cleansing totems (well, totem, singular - the one with NOED), which you can do without any perks. Small Game just helps you find totems if you don't know their spawns.
Running around every single possible totem spawn, especially in solo queue, is already RNGesus faith stat dependent enough already. Small game shaves an incredible amount of time off so that some tryhard sicko can cleanse goddamn blood favor in a minute after starting.
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@Zozzy said:
So you think all killer perks should have in built counters for survivors even if they don't take any perks at all.
wow...
I think I'm pretty explicit in never saying that. What I'm saying is that small game as a counter to NOED (and hex perks, because some people are just that obsessed with mutual exclusivity) isn't healthy.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Noed? And here I thought that Small game is counter to all Hex perks. Silly me
It is. I wish people would leave my huntress lullaby alone. But I'm talking about NOED in particular.
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@bjorksnas said:
So you want to counter totems but not dedicate a perk slot to them
ive got just the thing
rainbow map or green map with red twine
I don't see how dedicating an item to it is any better
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213293#Comment_2213293
No, a false dichotomy is a fallacy that limits options. I did no such thing; in fact, I expanded them. NOED is but one Hex. I saw what you wrote in your first post, but you still put all the emphasis on NOED as if it is somehow more important or worse than the others combined. The Perk: Small Game is a designed to counter Hexes. I pointed out that YOU are the one CHOOSING to put an unnatural weight on NOED, and hence your tunnel vision.
Small Game is for people who want to hunt Hexes in general and do not want to take (or don't have the option) a map into the match. It is no different from bringing in the Perk to sabotage hooks when you don't want to use a toolbox, or Self-Care if you don't want (or have) a med-kit. On and on it goes. There are lots of deadly, effective Hexes, and Small Game's purpose is for hunting ALL of them. It isn't a Perk to counter NOED specifically, and thus the premise of your original post dead in the water.
You're (somewhat) right (a dichotomy is two options specifically). I miscategorized your quote that "Small Game isn't a counter to NOED. Small Game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems," when I should have said that it was simply wrong. Small game does counter NOED. It doesn't counter NOED specifically, but it does counter NOED. The perception of a came from you assuming that because it counters this, it can't counter that, even though that is a subset of this. NOED is a hex. Small game counters all hexes. NOED is countered by small game. I think what you meant to say is that "Small Game isn't just a counter to NOED. Small game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems," which is pretty different.
We don't take rhetoric or emphasis into conversations of formal (aka pedantic) logic, unless it's about rhetoric. It's simple fact that small game helps you deal with NOED, and I mentioned that all hex perks suffer from small game. Neither of those are untrue. The conversation about which one I'm targeting is irrelevant, and doesn't bring anything new to the table. I'm clearly talking about NOED specifically, and people bringing up small game as a counter to NOED. You don't need a dissertation to see that. Criticism about my complaints being "tunnel vision" don't really address the argument at all. I didn't claim exclusive specificity to NOED, I'm simply talking about NOED in particular. Just because you don't talk about the fact that hydrogen isn't the first element on the period table doesn't make it so that you're claiming it's not.
Saboteur is meddling with a core gameplay mechanic, albeit rarely effective without great coordination. Self-care is a way to heal. These actions, being hooking survivors and injuring survivors, are part of the killer basekit. They are perks weakening the killer basekit. Small game, other than for inner strength, is specifically designed to counter hex perks, and therein lies the issue. It is a perk vs. perk situation, where the threat of a perk necessitates the bringing of counter perk. That's bad game design, since it chips away at perk diversity. Remember when enduring affected DS? It wasn't great, I think we can both agree.
Again, I never claimed specificity to NOED (explicitly or implicitly), and thus the premise of your original comment dead in the water.
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@wxnickxw said:
There are a limited number of places the Totems spawn so just walk to a fewnof them you'll find them without the perk.
That limited amount of places is complicated by randomness of spawns, and by the fact that running around to check each single spawn to ensure that a totem spawned and then cleanse that is unnecessarily time consuming. That's mitigated by small game.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
Nah the best counter to NOED is just doing bones.
I play solo and rarely got NOED up att he end even though the killer is running NOED.
You can most of the time easily tell whether a killer is running NOED or not.
They usually only focus on 1 survivor at the time and spending a stupid amount of time to get that survivor down.
When you realise that, just search the spots for totems and you'll be fine.
But yeah i do agree, even though it is a end game perk.
It is a unhealthy perk for the game imo.
It grants you as killer downs or even kills that you don't deserve.
Small game is how you organize the doing of those bones.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213291#Comment_2213291
It is literally not a good perk. At high level play, the best it will do for you is get you one kill and in order to get that kill you had to play with 3 perks for the entire match.
Come visit me in rank 5 and below, it's not fun (it's also how I got to rank 5 but hey).
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@Moundshroud said:
What you are doing is called "tunnel vision." Since your main concern is NOED, you seem to have forgotten that Small Game also acts as a counter to every other Hex Perk as well. So in short, your premise is false. Small Game isn't a counter to NOED. Small Game is a counter to ALL Hex Totems.
Read the rest of the paragraph. I mentioned general hexes.
Plus, what you are doing is called a false dichotomy. It is true that small game is a counter to NOED, because small game is a counter to hexes, and NOED is a hex. It is not one or the other, NOED is a subset of hexes.
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@Reinami said:
NOED isn't even a good perk.
It is if RNGesus loves you and gives you a good totem spawn.
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It'll help newer survivors learn, and plus, you never know. Maybe there was a blendette that was blending into the pallet.
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If it's not Annette Birkin for the survivor I'm going to play Trickster.
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@Tsulan said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FRLMCHAFPJ9A/lady-nemesis-most-beautiful-in-all-the-land.jpg
This will be the new Killer.
I'm very concerned by the fact that somebody took the time and effort to make this
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Trickster would be dark/steel.
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Rework, maybe. Nerf, no.
DH isn't terribly effective. It gives you greater accessibility at the cost of less ground covered. The reason why it's so maligned is beecauseeit's very in-your-face, while perks like sprintburst or lithe are much more subtle but give you greater value. It'll help you get a few extra loops, but not as much as lithe, balanced landing, or sprintburst will. It's cocky, it's annoying, it's Matthew McConaughey, but it doesn't back it up with much.
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>_>
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It's supposed to help you sneak up on them so you can get a down or a grab. I'd really prefer it if it didn't, since the terror radius is an effective way of placing pressure, but it's really just meant for you to get a grab or catch them off guard.
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The smart idea is to just push out gens, but I play solo queue, and knowing what happens in solo queue, I'm just gonna stealth it out and wait for the hatch.
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He also showed us the importance of picking your battles correctly and using your goddamn power. There's always going to be that one Meghead/baby Dwight on the team who not only gets killed and deprives the team of a player, but probably goes down with some collateral damage and camps the shack pallet.
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No, he's not as awful as the community makes him out to be (you'd think he's literal Satan minus the fun bits), but he still is pretty bad.
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Brand new parts, quadruple window Haddonfield.
*shudders*
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By fixing matchmaking. Most of the frustration comes via power imbalance; you get stuck with a lobby of idiots who keep trying to heal against legion, and then follow you to team up on a generator when they obviously have discordance.
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@BSVben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2201116#Comment_2201116
The op is referring to infectious fright.
This whole thread is a pointless study on pedantry. The op is obviously familiar with how this perk is used.
I guess he feels that the description of the perk doesn't match up to what he expects the perk to do, based on some slightly clumsy writing.
A bit of a strange thing to complain about though.
Well while we're on the subject, the quality of currency is always something flexible. Something that is current is typically seen as a perfect, completed action, rather than a progressive one, so it's not going to always refresh.
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@TGB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200472#Comment_2200472
I copypasted the description, lol.
It says "current location for 6 seconds".
Which perk? Could you maybe provide a link?
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2200453#Comment_2200453
My experience with old DS was that it was more of an annoyance and a punishment for playing too good. It just created situations that were unfair to killer which I believe is the main reason it got changed rather than DS being too good.
I remember a game where the survivors messed up very hard and I had just hooked my 3rd survivor before anyone had been saved. So I go after the savior and hook them now I'm left with 3 survivors who could all have DS up even because I played much better than my opponents.
I wouldn't say it was what happened if you "played too good," it just happens if you fulfill the 1/4th (or lower) chance of stumbling across a recently hooked survivor.
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No, it just uses jargon that's unnecessarily complex. When BHVR talks about auras, they say it explicitly, meaning you can see the word "aura" very plainly. When they talk about location, it's those big bubbles with the survivor shadow on it. When they talk about screaming and revealing their location, it's the same as above but with a different shadow print.
Also, I'm not sure where you got the "current' part of the description from. All of the exposed perks mention just "location."
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@A_Skinny_Legend said:
There are less people using it but the escape is the same. So does this mean that it is now more effective?
No, it means that the effectiveness of DS hasn't changed at all, which means that it wasn't that impactful in the first place or the nerf didn't solve anything. That is, if we're assuming that everything else stayed the same.
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Try not to jump to conclusions about what this says about DS' effectiveness. It's easy to assume that this meant DS was never a problem in the first place, meaning it never had an actual effect on the game and people who complained about it had no standing, but there are a lot more factors that go into winning games that haven't been held constant through a DS experiment.
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@NightmareKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2197883#Comment_2197883
What's the risk reward? Having 35% faster recovery and a free second chance that can turn the game around when you got fairly outplayed?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2197880#Comment_2197880
No, I have not considered not slugging when I make a play that gets all 4 survivors downed in front of me in less than 10 seconds.
So maybe don't slug. The point of these anti-*insert playstyle* perks is to deter you from playing in a way that the devs don't want you to. For slugging, it makes unfortunate use of the fact that downed survivors can't do gens and have their agency severely restricted.
And so there's your solution: don't do four-man slugs. Plus, if you're getting 4 survivors downed in less than 10 seconds, unbreakables shouldn't be a problem for you in the first place.
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I wouldn't call other perks' situationality "weakness." Dead hard makes much less ground per second than any of the other perks do, and it's a balance between accessibility and distance gained. Smash hit isn't on-demand and it gets you a 4 second sprint.
Also keep in mind that dead hard is a lot more obvious than other perks. What makes it so obnoxious to a lot of people is how in-your-face it is. It just feels really powerful, because you see that you can make the hit, and then have it snatched away very quickly, even if that does just mean a few extra loops. Balanced landing and sprintburst give you those effects much earlier, and making it to a loop so that they can loop feels a lot less like a slap in the face, although often times, that's much more impactful than dead hard. Dead hard is the cocky one who shows off a lot but doesn't really get much done, other exhaustion perks are the quiet professionals who can do incredible things with subtlety and quietude.
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Jeff, Felix, Jake, Steve, and especially Bill and David. David and Bill could spit in my mouth, step on me, and snap my neck and I'd be flattered.
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Have you considered not slugging?
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195181#Comment_2195181
Wait.. so Resident Evil is not even a horror game?
Well, Resident Evil is action-adventure, not PvP. That removes the aspect of humanity from the monsters and horror. Nemesis doesn't teabag you, after all.
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No. A horror game is going to be wildly in favor of the killer, since the point of horror is to fear inevitable mortality. DBD, along with most similarly-themed PvP games, is a slasher.
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They're not useless. Flashlight blinds can be incredibly useful for losing the killer and flashlight saves are invaluable. It's just that they're incredibly difficult to use properly, as evidenced by the baby meg aiming a flashlight at my knees while I'm barreling them down full-speed in the middle of nowhere.