Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@Chaos999 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235642#Comment_3235642
I don't know, really. I just know that it doesn't bother me and that I often can turn the existence of that boon into an advantage for me.
As far as ruining hit and run and stealth, I main wraith, who is literally both things in 90% of his kit and I really don't mind or feel negatively affected by it.
I'm not arguing with your logic, just stating that my experience is quite different from that.
If there's anything consistent in this game, its that our experiences will always be inconsistent. I definitely hear you, but as a fellow bing bong enjoyer I have had plenty of times where the boon is so far away from virtually all of my pressure that it might as well be inaccessible (unless i'm willing to sacrifice all of my momentum.) It happens on midwich especially a lot, but the worse case scenarios generally require the survivors to be efficient equal to (or surpassing) your own in dealing with it. Its all circumstantial in either direction.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235985#Comment_3235985
you could probably just limit the amount you can purchase every day,
so that yeah you can still play with those addons but you're not allowed to rely on them
I think that might be a bit too frequent of a rate, unless you were to make it more restrictive (like, say, making it so the purchase limits were shared by role instead of character.) Sadly, the addons just aren't balanced well enough for that degree of freedom, so you'd end up with people just rotating killers to never have to use anything less than their best addons.
...which could help with increasing killer variety, but it would make pretty much all of them play exactly the same between players.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
nah cause honestly I agree, I hate wasting my time in that blood web,
I think there should be a blood web for perks and offerings, but for addons and items, absolutely not
trapper is completely unplayable with no add-ons, but if this is the case, we meet the new problem in dead by daylight....
..inflation!
A lot of that went into the idea I gave earlier in this topic, the ability to purchase things directly should be more of a buffer to prevent it being inaccessible than a means to stockpile or otherwise prevent build variation or over-rely on specific consumables.
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I don't think they'll ever do this because the bloodweb and all of its flaws are a retention tactic in itself, because it creates a gambling element (which totally isn't gambling guys, don't worry! 😄) that both prevents people from being too efficient (the absolute irony) and keeps an ever moving goalpost that takes an extremely long time to catch up to, and requires further dedication to stay caught up to (especially concerning consumables.)
The most healthy compromise I can think of would be to keep the bloodweb as is, but have a secondary ability to purchase items and addons for an inflated cost. Items its not too big of a deal due to being able to be found in chests midmatch and carried out, but addons are extremely stifled due to this. Having limits based on rarity with a cap based on both time and qty purchased would be a health way to balance it, focusing on killer addons as the example:
1) You can only purchase the addon [x times] within each grade reset, possibly with scaling based on rarity
2) You can only purchase the addon if you have less than [y amount], also possibly scaled similarly
3) the price is double the node-based cost, or have it scaled based on the rarity of the item.
4) these factors initialize with each reset, meaning there is no "rolling over" between months.
The idea basically being to offset the extremely bad luck people can have when trying to get specific addons, which can entirely change the killer's playstyle and viability. The stipulations would be to prevent people from just buying 90 tombstone pieces or mother daughter rings or anything like that, and making sure they can only get a limited amount through this method in a regular cadence. It would also help killers like freddy or wraith who don't necessarily need the highest rarity addons, but might find themselves burning through specific ones at a much higher rate than replenishment. It would have to work a bit differently regarding survivor addons (as there are still perks which let people find those midmatch for free, nor are they considered as mandatory) but it could use that as a foundation and adjust to form a similar system from there.
Its not perfect, but I feel like a compromise like that would be the best hope we would have of improving the system's complete disregard to consumables.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235578#Comment_3235578
Yeah countless threads and none of them have anyone admitting they themselves were playing selfishly.
Keep em coming, you are actually amusing.
I think people aren't really putting into account that by prioritizing their challenge over their team, it is inherently selfish regardless of the further justifications. Its part of why I hate sandbagging challenges, they basically encourage this kind of stuff.
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@Olokun said:
i dont agree to remove or nerf it because there is a simple counterplay : find it an find the player who has the perk and get him out as fast as you can or use perk like coulrophobia.
Imagine if they actually made some kind of change to facilitate this, like snuffing a boon that has CoH on it will make the survivor exposed and reveal their aura for a period of time, maybe until they reapply it to another totem. People would absolutely lose their minds over it.
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@Chaos999 said:
I really don't have a problem with survivors running to the same spot on the map every time I hit them, only to slowly heal.
At worst, they waste a lot of time. At best, once I figure where it is, I can let the survivor go, then reliably find him there and down him with wraith. It works a lot more than you might think
Its circumstantial, but most importantly the downside isn't enough to offset getting the functions of a 5th perk. It needs more stipulations that keep it in line with other similar abilities, and since boons themselves are centered around essentially needing the killer nearby to work, it makes a massive outlier in its counterplay potential due to being effective at the opposite corner of the map. It dominates 3 gens, ruins stealth and hit and run playstyles, and further devalues injuring survivors as opposed to either downing/hooking/killing them.
Think of it like this: If plague's power didn't inflict broken, how much weaker would it actually be? That stipulation is extremely important to how the rest of her power works, like the fountains. Healing is slower than using a fountain to cleanse, but that downside isn't as much as giving her the ability to spit bloodpuke. The concept surpasses the efficiency shift at face value alone.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3235587#Comment_3235587
For one the design clearly isn't that bad considering the fact that people barely even talk about CoH being problematic anymore. Two did I say you complained about DH or am I bringing up an example of something that's already been changed and people still want it removed cause lol?
CoH changes things on a conceptual level far beyond the perk itself, including killing entire playstyles. People stopped talking about it because they just started camping and tunneling more instead of trying to spread pressure. Its still a pretty big issue, but people adapted instead of continuing to complain. Dead hard, by comparison, changed the entire way the perk works to address the problem it had, which was forcing lose/lose situations and being able to correct mistakes without even requiring interaction with the killer in the process.
If CoH was changed to only boost healing speed and not allow self heals, it would have been fixed similarly. Giving other survivors a 5th perk slot on a conceptual level is a major part of why it is as strong as it is, and why numbers adjustments aren't a good way to fix it.
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@fake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234758#Comment_3234758
I understand that these numbers are far from feasible...
But... Wouldn't it be possible for a top player?
There are good players and not so good players. I am not a good player.
(Actually not, but just as there are players with a 100% kill rate, there may be players with a 0% kill rate. Then between the two players the kill rate will be 50%. I'm not going to use this to discuss balance here.)
I have complained about killer. Someone said to me. Skills issues.
But it is about to be proven exactly now. The top players teach me the most skills! What else could be so exciting?
I get to see with my own eyes the unrealistic numbers being run. It is exciting.
The numbers presented go well beyond the variable of skill. This isn't a perfectly balanced game like chess, far from it. Every game you load will have a variety of factors skewed in one direction or another, in a game where all outcomes are forced into cadences of 0/1/2/3/4 kills. You then have factors that can have an overwhelming impact on said outcomes which goes well beyond the maximum possible influence of skill, like killing 3 then the hatch literally spawning under the 4ths feet.
There is no possible way to compensate for enough factors to reach an offset of exactly 1% from perfect no matter your sample set, its impossible to have that level of accuracy making it an impossible claim without having a tremendous degree of conditions to force that outcome (i.e: claiming "that match didn't count" and other such arbitrary disqualifiers) as the variables would force a factual outcome to have more than a 1% standard deviation from an otherwise absolutely perfect record. The game is nowhere near balanced enough for that, so it then becomes a flawed claim by default. Simply put, the game does not have enough standardization to make a claim that specific, which means it has to then be either exaggerated or simply fabricated.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234744#Comment_3234744
I don't understand why you think dead hard is a risk, when mistiming it, and not using it at all, pretty much places the survivor is the exact same situation.
thats not related to the perk? it doesnt need to like make you lose 1k bp every time you use it or slow you for 1 minute or anything like that, it puts you into exhausted which is the same risk any exhaustion perk has: wasting your chance at extending the chase and being punished in a way that prevents another chance for the rest of the chase (presumably)
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234744#Comment_3234744
This is part of why Dead Hard is so annoying to play against. It's even more BS against us console killers because we get FOV teched and 360'd easily because of DbD's horrible controller settings and auto aim. That's just one specific instance. Overall the perk is grossly unfun to play against because having to constantly try to bait it out, hold back your swing, etc. is easily the most unfun mechanic in this entire game. It makes killers like Blight, Pyramid Head, Huntress, Nurse, Trickster, etc. even more atrocious and needlessly difficult for us console players
I think the perk is completely fine in its current state but i absolutely do lament the controller limited killer experience. It feels like you're fighting against damn near everything from the game itself just to play the role, and I can imagine its only worse when console performance issues further compound that fact.
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@fake said:
I believe him.
Because it is not strange that there are actually players who can achieve a 99% kill rate without camping or tunneling.
I am not in the EU so I won't be able to watch it at the time it actually takes place, so I will have to watch the recorded version.
If I may wish, why not take this opportunity to start streaming? I would love to see your point of view. I want to learn from the top killer players playing. Please could you search for some simple instructions on how to use OBS? I really would like to see the top players play.
Statistically, in a game where the hatch exists let alone the other cacophony of variables present, 99% is an extremely unlikely number. Saying you can get at least 1 kill in 99% of your games is believable because it would be a statement that respects the lack of constants in the game, but saying that 99% of every single person you play against has died is extremely unrealistic. That is well beyond the maximum possible skill variable no matter what your sample size, especially in a game that uses cadences of 25% for all outcome data.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234698#Comment_3234698
It's only a risk if a survivor is purposely placing themselves in a risky situation, that they could have avoided, and they are doing this specifically to attempt a dead hard play..... for example if they are purposely running up to a killer to attempt a bodyblock dead hard.
Most of the time people use the perk, they are pretty much doing exactly whatever they would have done without dead hard, and they are just pressing dead hard to try to avoid a hit. And they are still moving forward when the dead hard animation is happening, and they can cancel the dead hard whenever they want, which means that if they mistime dead hard they are pretty much in the exact same situation they would have been in if they hadn't pressed dead hard. That is not a risk. A risk means the survivor would be worse off if they mistimed dead hard, than if they didn't press dead hard.
You can't use dead hard from a mile away unless you're reacting to a ranged attack, so I don't understand your first point. If you are being chased and the killer catches up to you, they will hit you. You need to use dead hard if you have no other way to prevent them from hitting you, which is often used in conjunction with other defenses such as pallets to force the killer to make a decision at that moment. I'm not talking about drive by dead harding or randomly turning around and running toward the killer, im talking about how the perk is intended to be used: as a last ditch effort to avoid going down when you otherwise would.
You understand this in the second paragraph, which is why im kinda confused where the first statement came from. what do you mean by "cancel dead hard"? its a locked animation interaction wise, you can't drop pallets or anything like that while it is active, nor can you "undo" it. If they mistime it, they are exhausted and gave an animation tell to the killer that they are now defenseless. Thats the exact reason why people sometimes try to pair it with a 360, to hide as much of the animation from the killer as they can to obfuscate the attempt as well as their timing. It doesn't always work, but its an example of why they do it. The risk, again, is that if they don't press it, the killer will M1 them too fast for them to react to and they will be downed.
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@Pulsar said:
I think it's because we're finally at a point where your own individual skill with a Killer matters more than their placement on a tier list.
If you are super good at Freddy, even though he has a lackluster kit, you can still do really well in most of your matches.
The problem with that is that skill is not a constant, as this is a pvp game. The inherent advantages and disadvantages of each side will always be a relevant factor beyond just skill, while skill will always be just a compensation metric. Since its asymmetrical a system like this would not work, but as an example in fighting games matchup scaling is done with a x-y system to denote the average expected outcome of any given 10 matches if skill is not a factor:
if a matchup is 5-5, then it is declared as balanced as skill is then the primary deciding factor. If a matchup is 8-2, that means that the first character has an overwhelming advantage over their opponent, not necessarily that the 2 will never win (hence why it is 2 and not 0.) While the system itself obviously does not apply to a game like dbd as earlier conceded, the logic of the numbers being a starting point of comparison that skill then offsets does. This game is just as much strategy and tactics as it is mechanical skill, which is why its always important to take the two together specifically when considering balance.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234642#Comment_3234642
I think the problem is I don't consider a 0.5 second active window to be a skillful parry, considering how many video games I've played where the parrying or dodging restrictions were far stricter than that. Dead hard is basically a mini game for some people, where they get to whack a button when they hear certain audio cues.
The other problem is the perk is now a neutral risk, because survivors can just cancel it whenever. It would have been better if the perk kept the 0.5 seconds of animation lock after the endurance frames end, so the perk would have an actual risk to it. Dead hard is a neutral risk high reward perk, when it really should be a high risk high reward perk.
The risk is that you are entirely vulnerable without having gained any distance, when the time you would be using it is to avoid a hit. Even with the best usage of the perk at pallets, there is still a window of time where you will trade at best. 0.5 seconds is 30 frames which yes, is certainly higher than something like 1f links in situations like many fighting games, but it is still in a pretty relative window to how it is in how many games of a similar perspective to DBD handle both parries and dodge rolls.
As the perspective requires you to be unable to see both behind you and in front simultaneously, it has a different playing field in terms of how to time it: Unfortunately without having the frame data for attacks/lunges in the game, we have to go solely off of human reaction time and consider everything "hard-to-react-to-able" in regards to normal attacks, which makes the realistic reaction window 0.25(15f) and the read window 0.5(30f). After establishing that, you have to go into the concepts of latency and hit validation to get an idea of the "forgiveness window" of said action and... it gets pretty small. Not exactly parrying in Third Strike small, but a considerably higher skill requirement than the vast majority of actions in the game. Remember this is a game where you can jump out the window of a second story building and get hit in midair because on the killer's screen you were still in the middle of your vault.
Aside from some things like flicks, reverse blinks, needle threading shots, etc this game has an extremely low skill requirement for the majority of its gameplay, and even a lot of those are only particularly skillful relative to the rest of the game. I understand what you're saying that its not exactly the same as getting tatsu loops with sakura in street fighter 4 or anything like that, but it is a completely different level from the expectations of normal or even advanced gameplay in this very game.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234600#Comment_3234600
Raising the skill floor of something isn't a justification for buffing its reward either.
Oh I never said it was, just that its what happened. I was only ever talking about it taking more skill than it used to, which is why im a bit confused. Might have accidentally conflated arguments as thats the only point I was addressing. I think its in a good spot now and I agree that it gives more of a reward than it used to, but only when used correctly and more skillfully than just tapping a button to fix a mistake risk free outside of the killer's reach.
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People wasting time with clocks when they dont need to, or not routing well enough to offset snares effectively/not knowing how to tell dream pallets apart. He has a lot of counterplay based on efficiency and awareness, which lines up with his difference in kill rates between the MMRs provided. It doesn't prove it, but it certainly correlates, at least. I feel like it lines up with why you hear him get put down so much yet newer players feel like he's still as oppressive as he was at his peak. A lot of people have surmised that secondary objectives are a bit of an invisible constant factor for helping a lot of killers who are weaker otherwise, and I agree.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234405#Comment_3234405
Something containing more skill than before also doesn't count as a validation.
And the skill level of the perk didn't rise, BHVR just removed some of the easier uses of it, and some of the removed uses weren't very useful against certain killers anyway. I can't even remember the last time someone tried to dead hard for distance against my Nurse, and dead hard for distance isn't needed against Blight when you could just dead hard toward him while he's rushing. And certain killers like Pyramid Head and Huntress have powers with a very loud audio cue, that survivors can easily dead hard on reaction to.
And the skill level of the perk didn't rise, BHVR just removed some of the easier uses of itthats.... literally how skill floor adjustments work, though. so yes, the minimum skill was increased. You're also kinda looking for very specific case uses to compare it to instead of on its own merit.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234382#Comment_3234382
I don't mean for this to come off as offensive. If it does, I apologize in advance. I just have a different opinion on how you said it.
To be fair these people may not "need" to talk about how great they are but that doesn't mean that some people don't. Muhammad Ali for example, some people may not have the opinion that he was the greatest of all time, as he often said, but it can't be denied that he was great at what he did. Fighting sports in general are big examples of people talking about how bad they are or what they are going to do to their opponent even though they wouldn't be where they are if they weren't great at what they do. It's often a way to psych people out as well. It happens in many other sports or anything competitive. Sometimes the person saying it may not even believe what they say but they know their opponent might.
This isn't direct towards you, just to others who may have said that the OP should stream if they are that good. I can't speak for OP and haven't seen them say this either. But some people are unable to stream due to internet limitations. Before we had a new internet company come out here, I had no issues playing games, but streaming on a 2Mbps upload speed that would kill the download speed when being used was a no go. I imagine it's that way for many others. I tried uploading a 15 minute video to Youtube once and it took many hours. I was also unable to use the internet while doing so.
That perspective (not yours, but the bragging to psych out an opponent) is actually universally recognized as negative though, going back to Sun Tzu and before. Teddy Roosevelt famously coined the "speak softly and carry a big stick" slogan in his campaign, but even that concept predates books like Art of War. Bragging without any means of enforcing said bragging is seen akin to a chihuahua yapping at anything that will give it attention, while many large animals that could obliterate other creatures are gentle and peaceful. Its the entire psychological concept that those who feel they have something to prove generally are fighting their own insecurities more than they are displaying their potential, while those actually confident in their potential know it will be there when the time comes that it is needed.
Its not quite the same thing as trying to throw off someone's mental state in the middle of a competition, its more akin to trying to scare them out of competition in the first place. As others have assumed, its probably just a troll looking for attention, I just find the posturing itself to be amusing knowing how it usually ends up both in societies and nature alike.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234489#Comment_3234489
I get that. They should definitely be more common, but tbf those alternate power add ons do usually give the killer a serious buff.
it depends. Some of them like snares vs pallets have the pallets kinda be worse at all tiers, just because the tradeoffs outweigh the bonus conceptually. They would certainly need to be normalized between the two versions before it could even be attempted, especially on a lot of killers who only have purple or iri versions of the alternative.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Seems a lot of work to make a new power for an existing killer. Like literally designing a new killer. Don't see it happening. If you want to customise your killer's power then that's what add ons are for.
I think their point was more that you shouldn't have to dedicate addons to dramatic changes in how powers function, especially since you end up with purple/iri addons that change the power in a way that also introduces a downside that is sometimes nearly equal to the bonus. If kept as addons, all "alternate power" addons should honestly be common at the very least (with higher tier ones decreasing any tradeoffs relative to their rarity)
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234348#Comment_3234348
I think the OP would be better off figuring out why so much of their ego is tied up in a form of recreation that costs money and whose only benefit is personal entertainment instead of something that actually provides a tangible benefit in their life. There's nothing wrong in being proud of one's skill in a form of entertainment but you have to keep in mind that's all it is.
To be fair, there are people who make entire careers out of their skill in games. From dedicated content creators to tournament players who travel the world for various tournaments, there is potential to take pride in one's skill in a game. This ain't it tho, you're right about that.
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@Stroggz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234448#Comment_3234448
Oh. I remember there was a challange "kill % survivors by any means" and if you bleed em out it won't count.
All 4 of them in the screenshot have the sacrifice icon, and they have scores so nobody DCed on hook or anything like that to mess it up. It just didn't register one of them for an unknown reason, going off the screenshot they should have followed all of the conditions correctly. I've had this happen with multiple challenges, like the health state ones.
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@Stroggz said:
What do you mean? What is "record for a daily"?
The challenge is to kill 4 survivors, and they got a 4k but it only registered 3 because reasons.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234425#Comment_3234425
So there no significant difference between comp survivors and high mmr pub survivors?
When did I say that? I'm just stating that you're cherrypicking your terms to try to force your hypothesis. A major part of why comp players are as good as they are is because they understand the game on a deep enough level that they can maximize the impact of their equally high skill: That is something that doesn't even rely on concepts like comms. Comp play actually has a lot of rules to things you can and can't take advantage of for that very reason. They understand how to make anything broken, when your argument is that you can win any match (under your specific terms, of course) because of how broken killers are.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234417#Comment_3234417
Because I have no comp experience. I don't even watch comp matches. Maybe there is a big difference, maybe not. Idk. At the very least I have to play a few comp matches before.
But my claim is for pub matches.
Your experience with comp should be irrelevant if the point you are trying to make is how strong killers are. You are being selective and cherry picking your factors, when even comp players still play pub matches. If your argument was that you were better than the average forum user, sure your terms would make sense. But things like 99% kill rate claims require equally flexible terms for competition.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234322#Comment_3234322
Thanks. And that's exactly why I want to do it. I want to show how how strong killers really are.
How can you do that if your goalposts manuvers exclude things like comp players? You can't claim things are overpowered but refuse to face overpowered things in kind.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234269#Comment_3234269
That's the conundrum; if you're winning 99% of your games, you will advance in MMR to the point where you can't win 99% of your games anymore. Unless you are using a tiny sample size.
My guess is one of a couple things:
- They feel like they're winning a lot, and just throwing that number out there. To actually have a 99% win rate, you'd have have played at least 100 games and won 99 of them, in which case refer to the above
- They're knowingly exaggerating
- They're lying/trolling (if it's the latter, bravo, because look at all the convo it has spawned).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234348#Comment_3234348
One true thing that I've learned in life is that people who are truly great at something or have some extraordinary skill don't feel the need to talk about it.
The bad a** doesn't need to talk about how bad they are or try to intimidate people. People who are brilliant don't go around telling people how clever they are. Or (to put it crudely) the person with the big ol' d doesn't go around telling people how big it is. When it comes time to use these things, they'll speak for themselves.
They know, and don't need others to recognize it, don't need that external validation.
So it's a good bet that when you have someone telling you they're great at something, it's a smokescreen for insecurity.
Some people were just never taught to speak softly and carry a big stick, basically.
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@DBD78 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233691#Comment_3233691
Ok if yes then what is the pickrate now? Because I also feel more or less everyone use, just like before. I use it all the time.
I agree the changes was really good.
Fortunately, that was already posted in this very topic:
@dugman said:
Yes, while Dead Hard is still one of the top two most used perks it’s usage rate is about half what it was on Nightlight for instance. Here’s a snapshot of its usage over time, you can see the dramatic difference at the 6.1 patch point. Even after recovering some of its loss its still much lower than it was.
It is certainly still used a lot, and that particular data doesn't break down the rest of the variables like MMR of usage, but it was very high before. So it can still be both a fair bit less less and somewhat prevalent simultaneously.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
For survivors that can dead hard on reaction, new dead hard is a big buff. For survivors that can’t dead hard on reaction, new dead hard is a nerf.
And the “dead hard takes skill” argument is a double standard. If anyone wanted to argue that Blight and Nurse are fine because they skill, we would be told that “something taking skill isn’t a good enough reason”, but here we are, with a bunch of people telling us that dead hard is fine because it takes skill.
The skill argument is comparative, as its old iteration did not need it: Its not so much that alone validating it, but more that it added it to the equation where it wasn't really necessary before. In fact I honestly feel like it changed it more from reactions to reads, as in committing to a guess so hard you're forcing the opponent to commit to a guess just as quickly. A "think fast" moment, if you will.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234352#Comment_3234352
I guess I should clarify that it won’t always give you as much info as it used to. It definitely doesn’t and sometimes it won’t help you figure out anything. My point is more just that it sometimes does give useful information still in addition to the regression and I don’t think it should do that as much as it currently does.
Oh of course, I was just emphasizing that it still requires more data outside of what it provided, unless you happen to be in earshot of the gen itself. Its basically just an extension of the radius from hearing the sparking of the gen in that regard.
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@Shroompy said:
The reason why its in a slot like that is because killer powers are coded like items
There used to be a bug back in the day that allowed all killers to use what ever power they pleased (Al though there was only 6 killers at the time, Hag being the most recent)
Most common combo youd see is Chainsaw Myers
Blueprints really is a strange, fascinating beast.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234113#Comment_3234113
The head turnings fine imo, at the end of the day every conclusion drawn against that data can be scrutinized on its own merits. Some will perform better than others.
Oh of course it can be scrutinized, I'd rather persuade people to consider it in the first place before ignoring things like that to go on constant back and forth arguments and pointlessly ignore the warnings direct from the horse's mouth that the data is wildly incomplete to be used in arguments. Being told something and figuring it out on your own tend to hit different.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
No, not really. I still think survivors should not scream at all, even if it doesn’t show the killer where it was. Given that information, I can often figure out which gen it was anyway if I already knew that survivor’s general location, so it kinda still is an info perk even if it’s not really meant to be.
For example if I know a specific survivor is most likely working on a certain gen, or I see someone running towards a gen, and I hook someone else and I hear that survivor scream, there’s a decent chance that gen was the most progressed one. And if I have that kind of information, then the perk is really no worse than it was before (and arguably is slightly better because as you said, 15% of 90 is greater than 15% of 80 - 13.5s instead of 12s).
(As a side note, if the devs still think merciless storm + PR would be an issue without the scream effect, just hard cap the number of skillchecks merciless storm can produce. It wasn’t really a problem in the first place, but they seemed to think it was.)
I don't know if I agree if the metadata is there. With a perk like windows of opportunity or empathy (for example,) you can easily deduce a LOT of additional info outside of the aura reading itself, just by understanding the possibilities that sliver of data helps dictate: Pain Res is much more limited in that regard, since it kind of requires other data to be provided to make similar considerations. Even something like wesker's sprays can be used as a tracking tool not necessarily for the killer instinct itself, but more for "if one survivor is infected and i get a KI and they're cured, I now know exactly where that survivor is" with minimal external data required to make such a deduction. Or even just a survivor being unhooked then quickly healed, knowing that they have to have stayed at the hook to heal unless something like an instaheal is in play. The data that pain res gives is just not enough to make those types of deductions without needing additional data to corroborate or disprove similar deductive reasoning.
Clarification edit: The reasoning with the scream is sound, but it is similarly far too limited.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234324#Comment_3234324
To be fair, the rework did make loadouts without any slowdown at all more successful. (I haven't run any slowdown in any loadouts for a few weeks and am running about a 68-70% kill rate for instance). It's just that slowdown is still also really useful and probably a little bit of an easier feeling way to go than something like a pure chase build or whatever so gen slowdown is still very common. Also gen slowdown pairs well for people that play more defensively (aka "campers") so that probably plays into it too.
Gen speed is too variable of a concept though, which is why success and failure unfortunately falls into the anecdotal/situational bracket. Like most major elements of the game, there is too much variation in either direction to actually create direct causality, only correlation. I remember Otz recently breaking down the overall variation of gen speeds in either direction and it was kinda nutty for how crucial of an aspect of game balance it is, let alone the fact that it can be progressed in 1-4 instances simultaneously as well as regressed or even blocked for durations. Just feels like that needs to be a place to start instead of just adding on and adjusting more layers in either direction when the foundation itself is extremely weak.
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@Lost_Boy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231802#Comment_3231802
Lol it shouldn't just be down to the killer to decide when he commits to a chase in a three gen. If survivors aren't actively committing to gens & trying to make you follow them to the opposite side of the map for the escape then that's a survivor issue.
Survivors should realise at this point they messed up and allowed the three gen to happen. It's basically a stalemate until one side decides enough is enough. In my opinion that should be the survivor team (but very rarely is) because they made the wrong play & created the situation in the first place by not paying attention to gen placement.
Survivors can win 3 Gens (even against doctor) now that CoH is a thing. The unfortunate part is that said COH means that the killer can get locked in a stalemate if the survivors don't make any mistakes, which is how we get scenarios like the one here. Technically it was still possible with self care or a coordinated team before CoH, but that would have required said coordination or a significant portion of the survivors running said perk. As it is now, in terms of pure potential, 3 survivors can beat a 3 gen even against a killer build focusing on it specifically so long as they play it right and minimize their mistakes. Its just a long and obnoxious battle for both sides.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234318#Comment_3234318
Sure, I agree they have some anti-synergy. It probably doesn't interfere too much with how they work individually though and since they're both really good slowdown perks that's why they get used.
exactly, just like with old pop and semi-old ruin. They're effective perks that clash but their value is too necessary to just ignore, so it becomes a reasonable sacrifice to one's loadout to shoehorn both in. Its a perfect example of the type of thing the meta shakeup was supposed to address, and exactly why OTR got made into a swiss army knife of anti-tunneling. Thats why it feels bad that they know gen speeds are a problem, but can't find a way to properly address it and rely on people bogging down their build variety even when they blatantly doesn't work well together.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234285#Comment_3234285
Deadlock is definitely seeing more use, its Nightlight usage almost tripled from about 3.2% to 9.6%. However Pain Resonance's usage also went up considerably as I mentioned in the post above, and in fact 23% of the people who use Deadlock on Nightlight also use Pain Resonance with it, it's a popular combo.
Ye, I know people pair them a lot, but they synergize somewhat poorly which is why I didn't bring it up. I think the reason a lot of people run both is desperation more than anything, really. People stack everything they can to slow down momentum regardless of how well they work together, just like how people used to pair pop with ruin just to try to cover each other's weaknessess regardless of working together like oil and water.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234273#Comment_3234273
It also really depends on the killer. I get massive value from it on someone like blight or billy (and maybe wesker) since i can easily traverse gens anyway to find which one exploded. So i feel stacking multiple slowdowns on blight especially is unnecessary. Doesnt stop the call of brine,eruption,pain res,dms blights though. Really depends ig. On the opposite spectrum i see what you see. Running it on myers and having to run around checking each gen burning time.
tbh ive been seeing a lot of people switch it out for deadlock, as it does a similar job of isolating and identifying the furthest progressed gen, giving you an idea of where to next apply your pressure. Its obviously not the best at that due to its limitations of blocking the gen (preventing regression) and requiring a gen to be finished before it takes effect. The fact it gets used for that purpose at all despite tells the story that it was an important aspect of pain res that got removed, like the aforementioned pentimento deconstruction. A lot of killers simply want direction on where to apply their pressure, and need that information to be on relevant terms.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234259#Comment_3234259
Have fun, I guess. I thought he was joking the whole time, but it seems like he is serious with all these posts. Maybe he is stuck somewhere in the MMR area for beginners. Otherwise, a 99% win rate is impossible. From the way he sees things, I honestly expect a awful killer, but I could be wrong.
Honestly I just don't understand the point of the excessive posturing. People have far too much ego about this game, while the more you understand how things work, the more room there is for humility. Personal skill is just an offset outside of balance, just like how low tier characters can and sometimes do win major international tournaments in many games. Almost makes me wish we had a peacock themed killer.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3234005#Comment_3234005
I was gonna say in terms of playrate it itself seems pretty much the same before and after the change. Probably because its solo strength is still amazing.
Travelling to and kicking gens can be a massive time sink, which is why it still has any value. Despite people complaining about stacking 4 regression perks on here, regression perks got hit pretty hard across the board, which is why it still ends up being one of the better ones even when worse than its former iteration. Its also part of why people stack so many regressions in the first place: They all got weaker but the issue of why people ran them was barely addressed. Its why Pentimento is popular now even with how fragile and inconsistent it is, at least it is a potent slowdown that gains value even from people needing to get off a gen to cleanse it.
Gen speeds need to have less variables in either direction, considering how important they are to the pace of the match. The more slowdown/speed up options they have, the harder it is to balance around them.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232357#Comment_3232357
My hatred for RPD, and my desire to get the stupid exit gate achievement has lead me to run a sole survivor build that is currently 5 wins 3 losses on that map.
So, in conclusion, whether it be positive or negative, you can bet your booty achievements, archives, and side objectives have quantifiable impacts on escape rates.
I was just trying to help people come to their own conclusion about the integrity of the kill rates that seem to turn the forums on their head every time they're released.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233245#Comment_3233245
Well I do fine with her and I wouldn't call myself exceptionally good though I've been here since the beginning, her kit does have some to do with it as well but that's just my personal opinion, she's better than most people will give her credit for
You're absolutely allowed to have that opinion, but that is still confirmation bias. You are taking your opinion and using a separate statistic to try to prove it, when the two have plenty of room to not be directly related. People often cite the fallacy as "correlation does not equal causation," meaning that the result itself was not necessarily caused by the hypothesis, even though the result would imply it. In other words, as long as you keep it as opinion, that is perfectly fine, but you have to be willing to likewise accept when other opinions will conflict with it.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233255#Comment_3233255
I am already losing a state of health to try to escape from the "dead end" where I was (knowing that no, I was not AFK, the time to take control of my character and barely move forward, he passed in the hallway opposite, turned and walked towards me)
To then try to escape, all the game, I was injured, because always pursued by this one, despite my many zigzags in the rooms, always trying to be as hazardous as possible, always with a pallet to save myself or avoid these bottle , such as in the toilet
The thing being that, even so often, I die when the doors are powered up, or hung at that time, it's not so much fun to always race you as soon as you start the game, yes, I'm getting better at loop... But when your challenge is to make generator and you can do anything except that..
I honestly don't know what you're trying to accomplish with these complaints. Again, I'm trying to help you not internalize bad games, instead of trying to use them as excuses to commiserate lacking agency. If you actually couldn't do anything, gg go next. The point is to look for things you can do differently and learn from them. I've already posited that your account of events must be either off or there is missing information that would be necessary to present it as possibility, and as much as I am trying to not dismiss your account, you claim this same lack of agency happened 7 times in a row and downplay the agency you did have following the first hit. Nobody can help you not be in those situations if you present them in ways that are either impossible or inaccurate, its up to you to take advice offered and either use it or ignore it. But either way don't hold on to the matches and have them affect your mindset in future ones.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233237#Comment_3233237
#########, I was confused, what I meant to say is, I don't want to directly imagine that the other player is cheating (sorryyy)
If I take my last game, on the hopital versus a Clown, I was on the entrance gate when the game begin, and the clown come immediatly from the corridor in front of me, where the only pallet in the "lobby" was
No worries, I definitely understand the reluctance to assume cheating. Based on the anecdote you just provided, the clown should not have been able to spawn that close right off the bat and instantly knew where you were without having a way of either manipulating spawn positions (like the relative offering from either side) or with a perk like lethal pursuer. Unless you were afk and alt tabbed out for a period of time, if you started moving as soon as you gained control he should have had zero chance of being able to trap you there. Plus you always have at least 1 pallet right next to that position, and multiple windows into connecting rooms. You even had a good chance of having a godpallet spawn in the corridors to either side.
You also mentioned lightweight, which while still not great, should have been able to let you run in either direction and have a very good chance of him missing your scratch marks, and clown has no instadown outside of pinky finger so you should have had at least 2 hits worth of chances to create space and start looping. And if he did, he only has 4 bottles max if he uses both addons, and needs to land direct hits so wiggling as you run and being unpredictable with movement makes you extremely hard to score a direct hit on.
Again, I'm not saying any of this to tell you that you're bad or anything in that direction, and hindsight is indeed always 20/20, but my point is to take those statements as consideration for how to handle it on future attempts. Knowing where to improve is genreally just as important as knowing what to improve.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232606#Comment_3232606
Yes very much so I tried to say this when she was released and was told hit and run is dead and her teleport was weak, this is why I put her at B tier and these people thought I was crazy, but her kit offers a few different ways to get the upper hand if used correctly, I think the people who brainlessly chase survivors for five gens without realizing it are the ones saying she's weak
Her performance isn't because of her kit, its because of the fact that only people who are exceptionally good at M1 killers even try to play her. These types of stats are very easy to enforce confirmation bias, especially in the form they're both taken and provided.
Edit: They also developed the condemn playstyle around specific addons which has helped her stay afloat with at least 1-2 kills per match. She's in a situation like spirit where people consider her at two completely different strengths depending on that alone.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233217#Comment_3233217
The thing is... I don't want to cheat, just because the killer, or the survivor seem to be surprisingly strong (when you're running after thirty minutes after a survivor, with a still great distance, or the killer comes straight at you without hesitation when you're hidden)
You can imagine it's talent or luck, but after seven games, where I couldn't even touch a generator because all the games, I'm busy with Loop the killer to try to get out of it, and that he never lets go of me, despite all the stealth skills I have... It just gets drunk and makes me just want to stay as a killer... But there's the tome
I... didn't tell you to cheat? I was saying that the way they found you could possibly have been through cheating. I was leaving it as an unlikely possibility since you seem to have ruled out every potential explanation as I offered them. I don't understand why you seem to think there were 7 times in a row that you had absolutely zero agency at the start of the match, if not either hyperbolic or unrealistic to the game loop itself. I was only trying to help in the event you might not have understood the events that could have led to any of those 7 outcomes.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233203#Comment_3233203
Nope and nope, for the perks, I look always at the end of the game to see what he have... And, it's pretty rare lethal pursuer, chili, yes, but no other aura reading perks or add-on
For the crow, I usually disturb them when I run after I tried to escape the killer, not before
Even Hiding in a locker when I see one when the game begin, no running, just walk, and even with that in the terror radius where I spawn, the Killer find me
Doesn't have to be you who disturbed it. If you have the ability to keep track of every single crow anywhere near you and whether other survivors disturb them and exactly when/when they return, you have arguibly the best situational awareness of any DBD player ever. I'm not going to pretend there are no unscrupulous actions like cheats that could have been used to find you, but I AM saying that under normal circumstances there was likely some type of tell that led the killer to you, and likely another that kept them in the area. Again, I'm not trying to invalidate your experience, I'm trying to give it context so you can move on from it instead of making a topic like this and further internalizing it.
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233121#Comment_3233121
That's the thing, I run for the moment Hope, Lightweight, windows and dance with me, but even with that, when i'm hiding in the far corner of the map, behind some rock or wall, the killer found me instantly
They probably have either Lethal Pursuer (or other relevant aura reading,) or you disturbed crows which are used to find you. Tracking by crows is actually two fold, since you can use both them taking off and them returning to get an idea of the expected distance/time that has passed since someone disturbed them, and it pairs well with a lack of scratch marks to know that someone is definitely hiding in the area. All I'm saying is that there may be reasons they find you more easily that might not be as apparent from your perspective, so the best thing you can do is immediately go for a defensible position and go from there. Sometimes in that situation they'll see someone else running off and go after them instead, but as a general rule the killer wants to prioritize targets that are out in the open/out of position over ones who will be guaranteed to waste their time and pressure.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233052#Comment_3233052
I thought their point was that chess can perfectly match players with similar ratings, and we can easily compare the performance of chess players with similar ratings...... so the DBD stats they care about are very specific pairings, like a 2,000 MMR killer fighting against a team of 2,000 MMR survivors.
I'm not too sure. Chess itself implies a very heavy emphasis on pairity in balance, with the only statistical advantage being tied to the starting color (IIRC.) DBD is the exact opposite of that in terms of balance, as it is a chaotic combination of variables that is balanced solely by averages, which is why its all the harder for those numbers to have the same type of accuracy. Even in its design its asymmetrical, and MMRs are not just a blanket overall number between all roles and possibilities. But the comment about the number well above the softcap having a near guaranteed chance of victory than the one at the softcap is a big part of why I made the assumptions I have.