Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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@badrepo said:
I love how killer mains reacted to 61% with “but wait, at top MMR it’s probably 20%!” And now that the stats for top MMR come out it’s “stats don’t matter”
Stats absolutely matter. If your personal stats for slipping on a banana peel every time you walk inside your home is above 50%, you just might start looking down when you open your door. Stats inform almost everything we do.
Why not wonder why the hell there are random banana peels in your home instead?
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233098#Comment_3233098
Survivors only like killers that they can loop for five gens without breaking a sweat. If BHVR listened to feedback from survivors, all 28 killers would be Pig clones
Why would they be pig clones? She's clearly the most op and needs more nerfs. :)
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Run Windows. I'm dead serious when I say its not only an extremely useful perk for avoid deadzones (natural or created through using pallets) but it gains more value the better you are at the game. its not a matter of needing a perk, but more that you should pretty much always have a defensible position before the killer reaches you at the start, even if running lethal pursuer and making a beeline straight toward you.
Survivor spawns relative to the killer are usually at roughly opposite ends of the map. Unfortunately sometimes the x and y axis of each map are not exactly even, so sometimes its not as far as others. If you start in the TR like you stated, you should be looking for a pallet or window immediately just in case.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
The solution is not to just slam the DC penalties back on, and pretend everything's right.
You should honestly take into consideration and think about WHY people DC. Find the cause and start eliminating the biggest ones.
Why do people insta-DC against Nurses and Blights? You know the answer to that, and you haven't done anything about it yet, despite the countless posts on the forums over the last several months. You can start here. Ignoring the problems is not good for the game or the players.
Entitlement. They can't fix that, and giving in to demands just encourages the behavior. While there are certainly plenty of issues with the game, boycotting it directly is a more effective method of conveying displeasure without purposely ruining the games of others in the process. Literally just stop giving them your money and go do something else if thats how you feel.
Edit: or better yet, offer constructive criticism and solution oriented feedback on their official (yet unpopular) feedback section of the forums. Tantrums are not a healthy nor effective way of emphasizing being unhappy with a video game.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232976#Comment_3232976
You want stats for survivors above the soft cap being matched only with survivors above the soft cap, because of chess.
I think their point was that the existence of a soft cap presents a statistical anomaly that is not accounted for when taken at face value. Its part of why its hard to put concepts like skill or even understanding/game sense into a numeric value, let alone compare them. Technically as long as a type of competition isn't "solved," there will always be variation, both in performance and within each "number" assignment. The softcap is applied in this game for matchmaking purposes, not necessarily to say that everything over x number will be considered even in terms of performance.
Edit: If i had to guess, chess was used either from an anecdotal sense, or to emphasize the concept of guaranteed resolution: Chess "mmr" would basically be limited only by how many steps in the future a player can think, paired with their repertoire of tactics and strategies they can use to manipulate said forethought's fruition.
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@Veinslay said:
I didn't read this entire thread yet, but I just wanted to chime in that another thing to consider with Pinhead is console survivors. The default button mappings on Pinhead still have remove chains and vaulting pallets as the same button. If a survivor is at a loop and they try to remove the chains, they will slow vault the pallet right into Pinhead at the same time. This leads to easy downs for Pinhead, frustration hook suicides, etc. A lot of people don't want to change their mappings because of one killer (I am one of them). I don't like playing against Pinhead for this reason myself. I dropped survivor anyways because of the matchmaking in solo queue.
exactly. concepts like inconsistency between control methods is another variable that is needed as context, especially regarding many killer powers. Killers like trickster are considerably more playable on M+K than controller for a variety of reasons, and even the performance issues of various platforms/machines are going to be a factor with many killers (and survivors as well.) Many of those variables can be offset by skill or compensation of course, but they are not an even playing field to compare.
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@ASusSheep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232860#Comment_3232860
Hi, thank you so much for your comment, I found it really helpful and informative.
Honestly, I'm trying to be as unbiased towards myself as possible in my account to ensure fair judgement from everyone here, so if I sound like I was the survivor in this scenario then yeah that's probably why lol. Thanks for taking the time despite your doubts, it means a lot.
To clarify, there were three survivors remaining during the three gen. Most of the time there were two (Steve and Mikaela iirc) on the gen near Main Building Silo, and one on the opposite side gen near Shack. For the two near Main Building, I couldn't really identify their movement, as the cornfield made it really hard to see where they ran off to. But from what I did see, they would run off to Main Building as I approached, and run back to get on the gen as I left. I'm not sure where they were when snapping out of Madness 3 either, as I would immediately leave to patrol the other gens once they were in Madness 3.
I don't know if my actions were sufficient in terms of attempting to make progress. I did "hit-and-run" the Steve, but they had a boon (COH I presume, unfortunately I didn't stick around post match to check) and healed up. The second time chasing him, I stopped to kick it as I dropped chase, which I suppose counts as progress, in that I wanted to leave them more vulnerable. For the survivor at the gen next to Shack, she had Sprintburst, easy access to Shack, and a nearby area in which I did not think I could catch her in a timely manner, so I didn't really chase her at all.
I don't think I held the three gen for an absurd hostage level amount of time before accepting the stalemate and ending it, but again with trying to be unbiased, I don't want to be too confident in my perception of the duration.
If it matters, this was pretty much my first attempt at a pure three gen strategy/build. I read about it and wanted to try it out, but I probably won't try it again just to be safe. Definitely will focus more on what you suggested with loadouts and strategies.
No worries, I always would rather be informative and helpful regardless of doubts, especially in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation and could benefit from the insight. Being willing to learn is always extremely beneficial from learning from past mistakes, after all. Stuff like the duration is a bit of a relative situation so there isn't really a specific amount of time or anything, I usually use scoring events to help keep it into perspective. If you have maxed all relative scoring events, maybe give yourself a few more attempts before breaking the strategy: afterall, at that point you've capped out all of the BP you can get from the scenario anyway, so something has to change in order to be able to continue. If for some reason you already capped at the early part of the strategy, give yourself some type of internal pomodoro timer: maybe something like 10 chase attempts before giving up. or set a kitchen timer or a stopwatch or something and use that to kinda keep track of how long it's actually been. Time perception can be very relative in this game, so unfortunately the acceptability metric tends to seem a bit arbitrary.
in the case of 3 survivors 3 gens, the burden of skill will be higher on the survivors than with 4, but it doesn't quite reach unrealistic yet. The rate of gen regression by default is 1/4th the speed of gen repairs, and the mini-pop at basekit only really offsets that at a rate that matches the actual kicking animation itself. Most of your value past that would have come from survivors missing the overcharge skill check, as even the time they took to break out would have been easily offset by the difference in progress potential. The reason "impossible skill check doctor" builds are both effective and hated is for that very reason: they put a much higher skill floor on the survivors attempting to counter the strategy, while having more room for mistakes to cascade regression to a similar pace to progression. Simply put, the more they mess up, the harder it hurts them. Thats exactly why the second half of the strategy is to try to use that efficiency limitation to assess when to secure downs, and then using slugging to push the others off before hooking the survivor in the middle of the 3 gen to try to secure the kill and/or force the efficiency cap that makes finishing the last gen impossible. Once that happens you have considerably more time and freedom to pursue of the survivors, and go for securing a 3k while having the potential to still get the 4th if they dont finish the gen fast enough.
I would recommend using other killers to learn how to effectively 3gen instead of doctor, if only to prevent the situation you were in. Plague tends to be a popular one due to how she can keep survivors injured consistently, while also using their cleansing attempts to create a snowball resource to capitalize on said pressure situations in a more interactive way. Part of the issue with 3 genning as doctor is that it forces inactivity due to how his power works, which is why it can be more oppressive compared to other killers, especially in the case of a stalemate. The nice thing about learning 3genning with more "fair" killers is that you also get a lot of insight on how to beat a 3 gen when playing as survivor. Its a lowest common denominator strat in the sense that any killer in the roster technically can 3 gen, so you can use any killer in the roster to learn the nuances of the strategy and then have them to apply later with the killer of your choice.
I think the biggest takeaway is that winning a 3 gen as killer generally requires more skill and planning than just the loadout and gen positions. Having one but not the other tends to just lead to stalemates like the one you experienced, and the skill of how to handle it (on either side, really) isn't some concrete thing, its a combination of understanding and predicting moves from your opponent, paired with maximizing your own efficiency when you can. If you're familiar with genres like MMOs, you could think of it like a "burst window" when you have the ability to injure or down a survivor without sacrificing your position. All of the holding things hostage stuff comes from taking too long and/or too many attempts to make your move, which is when you would be expected to consider abandoning the strategy. Try not to think too much about whether you have done something wrong or not, but more on how reasonable the situation started and became. Then just adjust your perspective from that and keep it in mind for future attempts.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232878#Comment_3232878
I do think they should be used to dismiss incredibly hyperbolic comments such as 'Nurse has no counterplay' or, on the other side, 'DbD is completely survivor sided!'. While I can't draw really specific conclusions from the data it definitely shows that there is a lot more nuance than what the one-sided opinions suggest.
While those are fair things to discredit, the statistics are not concrete enough to be used as evidence to do so. They are unfortunately prime candidates for both confirmation and outcome bias due to their incomplete nature. For the record I agree with you that nurse has counterplay, but like you surmised, the opposing argument can't really use them either. They just kind of exist as a sort of logic trap in their unfinished state.
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@TheSubstitute said:
I would just like to point out that at the top 5% of MMR Nurse isn't even in the top 5 of Killers and she has a low overall kill rate. She is counterable and Wesker is actually more dangerous.
@SilentShepherd said:
Those stats aren't really official though are they. They're not pulled from the servers across every single game played. They're pulled from self-submission reports on a 3rd party website, by the few players who even bother to go to that website and upload photos. And they don't do that for every game anyway.
This type of argument is exactly why the devs say not to use these stats in discussions about balance. People will always use them to support or dismiss each other's opinions operating under the assumption they represent concrete fact. Neither of you are wrong, but neither of you are right basically.
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@ASusSheep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232297#Comment_3232297
Second reply since my first one got deleted when I tried to edit it
I get what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense, but I don't know if it could have worked for them with the Doctor build I had. For instance, Surveillance made it impossible for them to touch a gen without me noticing and going back to defend it. And with Distressing, I think I might have been able to Static Blast all three gens at once maybe. I also had the brown and yellow cooldown addons for my Static Blast. Even if they forced a chase closer, I think it would have still been pretty easy for me to defend the gens at the same time. I don't know how I would have handled a closer chase (commit or not commit), but I imagine even if I got a down, I just had to slug briefly to stall and they probably wouldn't get the gen done.
For context, this all happened on Torment Creek, and the three generators were all pretty much in the open, though one was near shack and the other near main building(the Silo). Those areas were pretty much all they had to work with, so in hindsight I think they didn't really have a choice but to run away from the three gen towards those areas and other stronger ones. The areas around the middle of the three gen territory weren't that great either iirc, with few walls and already broken pallets.
They still had plenty they could do as long as you were actively trying to down them when possible. If you shock them to get them to madness 3 to prevent gens, and they didnt run away but started snapping out right next to the gen, you would have to close in to chase them away with more than just shocks. Doing so relieves pressure on other gens, which allows other survivors to then push those. Even with the perks you had stacked, there is still room for things to be done if your account is honest: They will be very slow, but depending on variables like number of survivors remaining they should still win the war of attrition as long as they are able to hit skill checks.
If they are unable to do so then they are dragging things on by refusing to accept defeat, like how if you are unwilling to secure downs when it does not sacrifice pressure you would be doing the same. There is an important skill coefficient in the scenario due to how the regression presented works, as it should entirely be possible for the survivors, but operating under the assumption that they are able to grain progress faster than they lose it. These types of scenarios are exactly why gen regression rates are as slow as they are, and a big part of why they nerfed overcharge up front when addressing the CoB synergy.
If I'm being honest the account sounds more like its from the survivor perspective than the killer's (so I admit to having some doubts specifically about the accuracy of the account, even with many details being admittedly conveyed and accounted for) but this would be where the nuance of duration would come into play regarding the answers the devs/mods have given concerning holding the game hostage: Defending a position and looking for an opening is both acceptable and strategic, but it has to be done in a way that progress is being attempted by either side. As long as that condition is met and the duration is acceptable, neither side is expected to purposely throw away their position for the sake of speeding up the game. In the event of an extended stalemate, if both sides are putting forth their best effort, it simply becomes a matter of neither side having the skill to continue, which is when it would theoretically start to turn into a hostage situation. The fact that you eventually broke the strategy to focus on survivors after a while is the correct thing to have done, with the duration of the scenario being the deciding factor on whether you did it in an acceptably timely manner or not.
If I'm being completely honest, my best advice would be to learn how to route survivor chases more effectively as doctor, learn how to capitalize on 3 gen scenarios more effectively, use loadouts that focus on this type of strategy less, or simply play other killers until you do any of the above. You do have the agency to not cause the situation, if nothing else.
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OP is right, in the sense that these stats are, like every time they get released, basically fodder for confirmation bias and outcome bias. Its not that they have no value, its that their value is going to be distorted by pretty much anyone who uses them in pretty much any stance. They're meant purely to be "fun statistics" that are taken with a monumental grain of salt, and the amount of missing context around them makes them too incomplete to use outside of the most specific of insights. Even within that very post they try to reiterate that with
It’s worth noting that many factors are taken into account when it comes to balancing killer powers and character perks, not only data.For example: one thing that could be gleaned from them would be that sadako players have found ways to give her a consistency to avoiding 0ks that works at all MMRs. The fact that her performance is much higher in all MMRs but still in the top half at high MMRs could be used to deduce that she performs better against lower MMRs, but that even at high MMRs she is more likely to have at least 1 or 2 kills but not necessarily much more. This would be the type of information that could also be used to determine various other hypothesis, such as "is her power less intuitive to understand how to counter it without advanced game knowledge" as well. Its wildly incomplete, and gives the type of insight that the devs then use to combine with other statistics to further evaluate from there.
It has uses, but not for us, basically. I honestly don't like when they release these types of stats for that very reason: they really need to be both sterilized to account for their flawed nature (suicides on hook, for example) and simultaneously broken down for their sheer range of variables (maps, addons, swf, events, etc) to be more clearly understood. The only real value that anyone from the outside could glean from them is exactly what they are: the difference between average performance in various MMRs. Even then, it kinda shows that not only is a killer like nurse not unstoppable, but she is more likely to be boosted to higher MMRs than she belongs compared to many other killers (and even that is an unfair assessment, regardless of being a logical conclusion.)
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232387#Comment_3232387
That’s true sadly but the archives encourage this behaviour way more.
For example the green glyph challenge forces you waste a ton of time to find meaningless objectives after your team does gens
Or even the key hatch challenge. That literally forces you to play scummy to get it
Generally I can't tell if they're field tests for alternative objectives, or promoting self-sandbagging in an attempt to address the efficiency cap situation. Either way, you're both right imo.
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@fake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232332#Comment_3232332
I remember building a discussion about it a long time ago.
It seemed odd to me to just stand there in front of the pallet without assistance and vault quickly.
My guess is that they didnt apply the change way back when to pallets because it would make short loops pretty much guaranteed hits, so I understand it there. But half of why safe loops are as safe as they are is because of the speed you can vault from a complete standstill, would be interesting if there was more room for error in judging distance/mindgames specifically in those ones to make them more reasonable.
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I wonder if there's any possibility that challenges affect kill rates?
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@akanadi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232317#Comment_3232317
i mean when you pick up you can look at a wall
The blinding angle can still blind you if looking at a wall if it is positioned right, the killer's collision mesh and its relation to the camera prevents them from being close enough to entirely prevent it, just limit the angle considerably more than not. The further a survivor crawls away from such obstacle, the wider the angle. And on that note, walls are not always available to do such a thing, and again, survivors can get downed purposely in an area that makes it much harder to account for.
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this kinda made me wonder: why isn't there a medium vault for pallets? Wonder how much difference it would make if they were applied but only to safe pallets (as it would obviously nerf the hell out of unsafe ones)
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232311#Comment_3232311
Still can't be arsed, because if I'm reading this correctly (and forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth), nurse being considered balanced because of the mild chance of getting a comp level swf that might give her a challenge isn't an argument either.
Average nurses with stomping builds are a lot more frequent than that, and average nurses with stomping builds can beat teams who's skill would let them destroy most other killers even while playing perk less (which is a definition of imbalance)
My argument is that the game itself is unbalanced to hell, and it doesn't take comp tier anything to have a viable chance against a killer with no addons, even nurse. All it takes is a relative skill coefficient that offsets her advantages over the average gameplay loop, with her own skill coefficient being an opposing variable (which then pairs with the advantages stacked by her opponents.) I just personally believe that she as a character (and especially when disregarding her addons) does not push into an unrealistic advantage that surpasses the advantages that can be stacked against her, nor the skill of her opponents (especially when combined.)
The nurse as an extreme coefficient is no different than SWF: abusable and exploitable, but only as potent as the people maximizing on that potential. And since her skill coefficient isn't linear, there are increasing returns specifically on the higher end of her growth: what type of "average" you apply to her is going to change the relation quite a bit.
apologies for various clarification edits
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Flashlights have always been centered and balanced around animation locks: They are designed to be used when the killer is unable to turn their camera, and if a big part of the reason why they can't turn their camera when it happens. While I definitely agree that some items like medkits have extremely strong value in the current meta, flashlights have the ability to deny the killer's objective entirely, making them extremely strong when used properly. They were never intended to just be free blinds, they are for killer specific counters (like wraith and hag, who hag especially suffers from a LOT) and flashlight saves or blinds if the killer breaks pallets or tries to vault. The last two are not terribly strong if the killer player has very good hearing, but it does still work to disorient them to a degree during and directly after the blind.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232309#Comment_3232309
True, but I honestly can't be arsed anymore to argue with someone who thinks that nurse in the current state is balanced and *needs* add-ons to be playable
So I'll just throw some sarcasm here and there and leave
How about someone who thinks she is balanced in her current state due to the state of the game itself? She certainly doesn't need addons to be playable, but it is fair to say that there can be loadouts stacked in a way that they can severely dampen even her potential without addons, especially if they have the skill to go with it.
Edit: At least in my opinion, of course.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232305#Comment_3232305
Ironic you replied only to me with that, and not to them as well
Fair, I hadn't seen theirs, but it too is the same fallacy. That said, not much point countering fallacies with the same.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230788#Comment_3230788
Good nurses don't use add-ons to begin with
I also still have yet to find a true Scotsman.
At the risk of ruining the joke:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman -
PLEASE
radius based detection methods are very easy to do, but they are also one of the reasons why these problems happen. Having distance detection use pathing detection (like waypoint nodes) would be a wonderful way to fix the issues with hooks on indoor maps especially, especially since they would force the game to have to recognize "blocked" pathing (breakable doors, unpowered ones like on the game, etc) as long as the calculation is done in the right order. I know its somewhat repeating the original post but it is a very good avenue to attempt to address it. Admittedly I'm not super familiar with the pathfinding detection methods of UE4 (my understanding is they have to do with using meshes to railroad pathing) but as it only needs to be done once at map generation instead of dynamically like it will for the proposed bots, it should hopefully be able to piggyback the same system.
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learn how and when to chain loops instead of sticking to them. The artist needs to slow down to place her crows, and there are a few tells like the noise and the speed that her red glow moves that you can use to tell without seeing her directly (like at loops with high walls, for instance.) As soon as you see her setting up, break off to the next loop in the opposite direction as her. As long as you make the read right, you will gain distance on her every single time, at least enough to reset the situation at the next loop without needing to waste any resources.
Her crows themselves also have a lot of quirks to them that are very helpful to know: The big crow has both limited range and direct collision: meaning it needs a clear shot with no obstructions, and it generally only reaches on the same tile its placed (or equivalent length.) She will always try to place them at places like window vaults and pallet drops, bottlenecks, along long walls, etc. If anything is in the way and breaks the big crow, the flock doesn't actually do direct damage. yet.
The flock is its own unique thing, as it has to be removed to prevent the next flock dealing damage. The time to remove a flock is only very slightly longer than the time it takes for her to recharge her power and line up another shot, let alone release it. If you are dispelling the flock as soon as you can, there are very few situations she should be able to land a second hit, even with the addon that helps with that specifically. For the most part, simply don't ignore the crows and you shouldn't be able to be harmed through double taps. There are some niche situations where it can be forced, but they usually require staggering two shots from the same volley at multiple distances: She's generally only ever going to land them if firing at you on a gen from further away. If you get hit by crows while on a gen, simply run to the side and get rid of them before going back to the gen to finish. There's a trick to getting rid of them as well:
Lockers. Lockers instantly get rid of any flock swarm, while vaulting resets any progress made dispelling them. Basically if not in the TR and there is a locker nearby, it can be the fastest and easiest way to clear em. Particularly useful on gens with lockers right near them, but keep in mind a "near-miss" will give her killer instinct to know where you are, and KI can see through lockers. Not sure how this applies regarding the crows flying by a locker you're already in, but something to keep in mind.
Another thing worth noting: Its not uncommon for artist players to use aura perks to help with hitting shots through walls to force a flock (or even set up in advance for the bottleneck they expect you to go toward) if there is a clear shot. Pay attention for perks like I'm All Ears if you think they might be trying to railroad you a specific direction, especially after vaulting. Sometimes it can become somewhat obvious if theyre using said perks, which can help you prevent running into a relatively guaranteed shot, especially if she hit you with a flock before the vault (remember, it can reset their duration as well.)
The last thing is elevation: flocks will climb slopes 100% of the time, and will not descend after. If she has to shoot them up a hill or up stairs to fire in your direction, they should harmlessly go over your head. The slope is the important part, it is the only thing that will cause them to ascend (not 100% on descending down slopes, never really thought to test them that way) so if fired through a hill from one of its non-sloped sides for example, it will stay at ground level (most likely done this way to have the power work properly on multi-floor maps.)
She follows a similar strategy as most trap-based killers regarding loops: You can stick with a loop until they start trapping it, then use that setup time to gain distance and reset the situation to force them to commit. The rest of the nuances are good to know on how to handle particular aspects of the power, but thats probably the most important rule.
Edit: One thing I forgot to mention: If she has a trap down and you run though it, you don't take the hit from the big crow but get swarmed instead. Can be used to "break up" traps at loops by other survivors, if you see someone being chased nearby and feel particularly gutsy but don't have anything like a flashlight.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231760#Comment_3231760
It surprises me they don't keep the data from the match for a week or more so that complaints can be followed up on. I shouldn't have to record every game in case there's an issue and then submit a complaint through the app and then through their reporting system online. Matches can't take up too much data, as I can play a few games and the apps data usage is only a couple hundred megs.
100% agreed. They need more internal data storage for the reporting process to reduce the burden on the end user.
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@BendIt said:
"report them through the in-game report system"
That never works... ok...
"make a ticket while leaving your player ID and relevant proof"
Make a ticket about an anonymous player? ...
Lets face it, BHVR reports of hacking are reducing to 0%, there are no reports, there is no problem
They updated their report system to account for the anonymous mode. If you report the match ingame, they can use that to pair with your provided support ticket/evidence. Its honestly how it should have always worked in that regard, but they definitely still have a lot of work to do with the report system in general.
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@supersonic853 said:
It had a good rep in the ptb but was a little busted. Now its been out for a good while. Camping seems about the same before and after its inception. For me its the fact getting within 6 meters is a death sentance. And unless your a swf (which already is more effective against camping) it's soloq benefits are null. So i wonder what could happen to actually make do its job better. What do you think?
They broke the ways to exploit it. Don't worry, it'll become a topic again if/when basekit UB gets the greenlight in any form that does not limit number of uses.
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@Blizwise said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351020/make-survivor-great-again
Okay the killer is balanced for 4v1 the second one survivor is gone you loose ALOT of you ability to win, you would think it’s 25% but it’s almost 40% when it happens.. killer start with 60-40 advantage due to 4v1.
this game is a balancing nightmare. Depending on your killer and addons you can make much easier for killer to win vs what it is already. ######### players will hook camp and tunnel to make is make it much much easier. Due to the horrible RNG of the hatch you can force a 50-50 with hatch but again is in the killers favour due to movement speed and easy few predictable hatch areas. (But if your a smart survivor you can use this to your favour, which makes it a 50-50.)
you make good points but from a balancing point of view only a few a okay at best.
as for nurse, she is needed and can only be unbalanced unless her movement speed is harshly reduced or she can’t teleport throw objects.
I've been ignoring a lot of these, but for clarification, the game is not actually balanced for 1v4, and has not been for some time. It is balanced for 1v3.5, and all of its objectives and mechanics are designed around 4 being stronger than the 1, but 3 being weaker but still relative. Thats a big part of why the early game is so important to either side, its a matter of (maximizing efficiency before having said efficiency capped) vs (limiting the damage done from said increased efficiency before continuously shifting the advantage in your favor.) It's lopsided by design, and the millions of other variables further destabilize while attempting to fix one another.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
The last thing this game needs is more toxicity
I don't think I'll ever understand the compulsive need to have tools specifically designed to disrespect opponents in pvp games.
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@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230351#Comment_3230351
“Which is what you don’t seem to grasp” yet you don’t even know the definition of “on demand” lmfao. Just because lockers never get destroyed doesn’t mean head on is always on demand. “On demand” means whenever required, and head on is simply just not able to activate whenever required. 1st off, you have to wait 3 seconds to activate it, let alone be in/right near a locker. 2nd, lockers aren’t available at will, you can be in the middle of the corn on cold wind and there’s no lockers nearby, etc. before you insult others you might wanna actually learn things and understand what you’re saying first. You obviously don’t seem to grasp the meaning of on demand.
you talk about “locker standoffs” like the killer is really going to sit there for 30 seconds trying to get you to come out lmfao get real, no killer who is actually trying is going to have a head on stand off, theyll just tank the head on or they’ll maybe try to bait it once or twice and then go in
there is no real reason that you can give that makes your point better. Obviously you’re just a troll who can’t admit when he’s wrong
It doesn't take 30 seconds for the killer to lose time in a standoff, and you clearly don't understand how time relevance is a factor in this game so its kinda pointless to continue, if I'm honest. You also pidgeonhole the definition of on demand pretty hard, when it, too, is a term with relevance significance. The ad hominems at the end are a nice touch, too. Just stick with trying to understand and discuss the game, please.
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@Rulebreaker said:
Gonna assume this is serious?
- Ds reverted to 5 is fine but base kit 8 is a no no
- Map priority is fine as is
- At this point is where we suspect it is bait but the answer is no
- No
- Gens are at a pretty good speed so no ( hey guess this is the easiest answer)
- No ( we were right)
- Nope, at best add ons need looking at
- Nope (this is getting repetitive)
- Funny. But you can dodge.
- Cute. Nope.
Gonna assume this is serious?It really does get harder to tell each day, doesn't it?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230387#Comment_3230387
I’m not ignoring anything, I am sticking the scenario OP presents. If you didn’t hit your knives when you should have that is on you. The survivor is equally punished for not finding LoS and giving him Main Event as a result.
All I am saying with regards to what OP is talking about is the fact that once you do have Main Event, you shouldn’t expect it just to hit because you have it, you have to be smart about when you are using it. (I.E. open zones, survivor stuck in a long hallway etc)
Your last point is absolutely correct, but its not mutually exclusive to the issues that the power itself has. Survivors can simply avoid areas where it is strong and it quickly becomes more of a detriment than useful, which pairs terribly with the amount of limitations it already has to its usage. The power needing to have its versatility improved can be true simultaneously with it not being guaranteed injures/downs. Thats why I use Myers as the example, as no matter what version of T3 he has, he at least has the power to control its activation to greatly increase its chances of being functional. If he pops it randomly then the chances of him getting any use from it (let alone enough to snowball off of) are a lot lower. If Trickster only had a few restrictions removed it would be considerably more useful, and could easily have reasonable sacrifices to compensate.
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The game's balance is entirely centered around stacking as many advantages for yourself as you can, while minimizing them from you opponent. Hours don't mean a whole lot compared to that fact, but the more hours the more people start to understand and tailor their gameplay and loadouts around that fact.
The meta is focused around abusing and exploiting as much as you can, so the people who are very good at it will seem absolutely untouchable at times compared to the ones who just play normally, even when they also do well.
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@Blizwise said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3227824#Comment_3227824
It’s also bin proven that you drink 7ml of bleach a day and live… doesn’t make it right lol.
nurse is hella broken, her blink is way too far, she can do it twice (3 with addon.)
she needs a rebalanced. If a nurse loses it cause they suck with her… BUT we need a killer like her in the game to force better play style.
That is not only a terrible analogy, its an extremely dangerous one. Nurse is another factor of skill and advantage coefficients in this game: There will be people who understand how to beat her and will do so, and those who will understand and still lose. There are also those that will not understand how to beat her, and will similarly either lose or win. None of those 4 outcomes invalidate any of the other 3, but one of them does offer room for internal improvement.
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@Taxman232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350872/dont-even-think-about-buffing-soloq-until
Killers were buffed in the meta rework so dont think they need another one just yet.
But agree with you that SWF needs to be held in check. Currently cant nerf them without needing solo q further into the ground.
This is the problem with jenga balancing. everything is so lopsided and back and forth that each previous buff/nerf gets used as an excuse to exclude the next buff/nerf. Whataboutism is practically encouraged by how the devs approach prioritizing balance adjustments with this game. Just fix things unilaterally so both sides benefit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350335/killers-with-joke-powers
Tricksters normal knives always ######### me up, i think they are really strong (goes for most ranged killers imo.) but yeah, the main event is really rare and kinda sucks, i dont remember being ever hit by it, and i have only had it activated once when i was playing him.
I think Trapper should have more traps on hand as base kit, he waste way too much time to go across the map for traps, while 3 gens can be done in less than 50secs.
Played against one yesterday and i actually felt sorry for him, even when he used the addon that put us in the dying state when getting free from a trap on your own, he got like 5 people trapped the whole match and prob only 1-2 hooks.
Trapper actually used to only have 1 trap basekit. I know he might not seem amazing now, but he actually used to be a lot worse, and not even that long ago. I still remember people saboing his traps to just outright disable them and he would have to wait for them to respawn.
I actually think his power is in a pretty good spot at the moment, but he's like hag in that he suffers tremendously for how much the first few minutes of the match matter in terms of pressure. He basically has to set up around a 3gen most of the time or he just doesn't get gen pressure.
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@TragicSolitude said:
They released Trickster before even implementing Dead Zone and Response Curve options for controller. I don't understand why they won't do basic stuff to improve gameplay and user experience. They don't share the number of players on console, but we know that it's not small. Not at all. There's no reason to ignore console players the way they do.
I recently played against a console Trickster. He couldn't land enough hits to down me while I was standing still, body blocking as my friend opened the exit gate. When I play Trickster on PS4, I resort to M1'ing and almost never bringing out my knives because trying to adjust the aim mid-chase just doesn't work, DbD needs controller options so players can set the camera to respond to the thumbstick in a reasonable manner.
(I just did the Halloween tome challenges for killer on Switch and I'm in a really bad mood about it, so I apologize if my extreme dissatisfaction with the game at the moment turns this post to acid. I ####### hate killer on Switch. The framerate is too low to stay in chase with survivors, and the input latency is so bad that when I can see them I don't land the ####### hit. They have to throw the match for me to succeed at anything.)
I think one of the biggest things about trickster compared to other ranged killers on controller is the duration that accuracy is required. Like everything else like the jitter is awful and excessively tricky to compensate, but then you need to do it consistently to keep landing hits, and the longer in between the more chances of them just completely negating all of the previous ones. Like huntress isn't great on controller, but there are reasons she's nowhere near as bad as trickster because of simple things like that. Its mercifully just one and done per health state.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I never use Main Event unless I am certain it will at least injure the survivor.
There is also legit areas when a survivor literally cannot have enough time to react, so it’s fair to say that there should be scenarios where if the survivor plays smart Main Event shouldn’t be as powerful if you decide to use it right there and then.
You're ignoring the simple fact that the killer has very little control over when main event is triggered. They activate it manually, but its buildup requires landing ranged hits, of which you need multiple to even do damage, and of which also heal naturally if a certain amount of time passes between hits. it also starts a timer of 30 seconds once filled, and the power must be used during that time or it is completely wasted and reset before even activating. All of this on a 110% with no mobility, which means they have a considerably harder time getting into a proper position to make use of it in the first place, especially since they are slowed during its active phase.
If you are a survivor vs trickster you literally just have to play against him like a less effective huntress, all of the same looping and tile traversal tactics apply. It's called "main event" and yet most trickster players can go entire matches without ever getting a single opportunity to use it effectively, which is what needs to change considering its literally half of his power. As i compared earlier, even mikey at least has control over his power, and thats one that can outright grab and mori people with the right addons.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230355#Comment_3230355
No, I complained after seeing the buff posts and OP general attitude in the thread and unwillingness to listen to anyone tips about Trickster event. Im not missrepresenting anything, OP finds it useless, several people tell him how to use it to get some value out of it and also point (myself included) the skill is very unreliable as a tradeoff for its huge potential for game winning actions, some people suggested some buffs without any tradeoff, then you came up and started arguing with me while agreeing with me to some extent which is weird because it seems a bit hellbent on arguing with me.
Nobody has stated they weren't willing to compromise in a manner like i discussed, or any other tradeoffs that are fair and reasonable.
They should have stated they were willing to compromise if they are, if someone says you "Im going to give you this" and nothing else the logical tought is to think he isnt going to demand anything in exchange, this is the exact same, someone asks for a buff/nerf and doesnt state a tradeoff its safe to assume they dont think a tradeoff is needed (shops have price tags under the products so thats the signal they are going to ask you for money).
Did you ever stop and think they might have just been trying to find ways to make the power less worthless than it currently is and throwing out ideas? The fact you keep forcing their unwillingness to negotiate on them, even now, was exactly my point. Collaboration requires cooperation, and all you have been doing is being argumentative, and you have refused to hold yourself to the same standards by not trying to offer similar concessions that could make decent middle grounds. This is getting pretty off topic so I'm not going to continue that conversation.
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@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230238#Comment_3230238
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229694#Comment_3229694
I love how he’s trying to say that you’re “bad” and the perk itself isn’t that good at all lmfao (“you’d problem benefit more with learning how to use them before demanding more”) like we can’t just test it out for 1 game and see that it’s not a good exhaustion perk at all?? There is no situation where you can’t tell me that head on isn’t the worst exhaustion and could definitely use a slight buff. If you’re looping around a jungle gym with a locker you literally need quick and quiet and you gotta hope the killer doesnt see you jump in the locker and plenty of times the killer can easily tell because your scratch marks literally stop at the locker so you also gotta hope the killer doesn’t notice that.
Without quick and quiet you basically have to be versing a bad killer for him to not realize you jumped into the locker so it’s almost not possible. If you’re “far enough to where you can jump into the locker and wait for the killer to come” then it’s almost like you could’ve kept running and been just as fine?? Lmfao head on stun isn’t long at all so instead of wasting time sitting in a locker for 3+ seconds and letting the killer catch up to you, only for you to have about 2 seconds of distance now because of how short head on stun is, was pointless. You could’ve used the distance you first had to run to a pallet or a window.
“use deception” sure, but what if I need to actually JUMP into the locker? I can’t because deception takes priority. So it’s not always good. To pair deception with perks that’s require you to jump into lockers/are time gated.
if you need to pair a pair with another perk or even 2 perks for it to be good then it’s obviously not as good as you think it is.
we aren’t talking about being in a swf and hiding in a locker while a friend runs by.. anything is good in a swf. Plus that requires another person to be off of a gen and hiding in a locker. AND now that person is now exhausted so they’re out of another exhaustion for just in case the killer ends up trying to kill them instead. You can give reasons all you want but none of them will end up being good enough
I never called anyone bad. I just said they can improve with whats already in the game before asking to be spoonfed. Its a perspective approach to understanding why things are as they currently are, and I've been trying to hopefully help either of you improve with the ability instead of just complaining at the devs because you don't understand its current iteration.
Like with your comment about QQ in this post, I never implied it was to hide from the killer or anything like that: you can hop in loud noise notification and all and force a standoff that is lose/lose for the killer the longer that they delay in reacting. As long as you have 3 seconds on them in terms of distance, you will have it in time. I also offered that you could use deception to add another level to the mindgame, but deception is also a perk that takes nuance to understand how to use effectively. If you're this unwilling to try to learn how these things work at high level first, your projection about what i said might just be you being too defensive to learn anything from what i'm trying to teach.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229694#Comment_3229694
locker stand-off are favorable towards the killer. its way easier for killer to bait rushing out of a locker then it is for the survivor get the stun. I think most killer player will say that locker stand-off is just free hit/free down in like 99% of cases. I think when people talk about exhaustion perks, they do not mention head on because of how bad of exhaustion perk it is.
killer can just open lockers before picking up. in practical gameplay, a survivor standing in a locker is not time efficient on generators. you want to be on generators when your teammate are in chase. Going for saves with head on is niche and relatively easy to counter. stunning the killer mid-chase is a waste of survivor time. If anything this just put you as the tunnel target for the killer because you have one of worst exhaustion perks in the chase. Chasing head on survivor is way more simple then chasing dead hard player or sprint burst/Lithe hold-w survivor.
Abusable for Swf's? 4x vigil+4x head on is a meme build where nobody does generators and tries to stun the killer for the entire game. This is just throwing games and is a free win for the killer. SWF that is trying to win would not use these perks.
In regards smash hit, Huntress that can throw over loops making smash hit a suicidal perk. rock loops are time-waste loops for huntress and the survivor player does not need smash-hit to successfully killer's time at these loops. Kicking pallets is generally a slow action for killer and huntress generally kicks pallets that she cannot throw over. Smash hit is encouraging you to leave loops early when waiting for the killer to break the pallet would roughly get you to the next loop. I am far intimated by facing dead hard as huntress then facing smash-hit. This is a bad example.
Also the expanded stun range is an absolutely horrible idea, the pallet collision is already outside of the killer's perspective as it is. I've always jokingly referred to pallet stuns as dropping the pallet on the killer's toes because of how far in front of them it actually is from their view.
I rarely ever get hit by a pallet stun because I precisely know the hitbox of the pallet stun to avoid getting stunned. This is not my experience with pallet stuns. A lot of the time, respecting pallet as killer leads to two outcomes, the survivor not dropping the pallet and get hit around next loop or dropping the pallet and not getting the stun. its why those stun challenges in archives are often lead survivors to camp pallets to purposely tank hits then droping the pallet(waste pallets) to get stun-challenges done. Smash hit as result makes you play worse as survivor because of how unreliable pallet stunning a killer is when a killer respects pallets and understand his/her distances for lunging. When you play against legion feral frenzy you will understand these situations more clearly.
both of these perk should be reliable stuns because the sprint burst type perks are generally reliable distance gain perks when survivor player plays around them. these two perks on other hand are just not worth using. they require the killer to play poorly/make a mistake for the perk to activate.
Yes locker standoffs are favorable for killer, but you created a high risk high reward scenario for the two of you to have a standoff. literally any time wasted in this is a net positive for you, and the best part is it doesn't even actually require the perk if you're convinced you'll go down anyway. Many plays are done specifically to waste as much time as possible, not to escape for free. You CAN win the standoff, and your chances aren't terribly low, but you also win more every second the killer is dancing in front of the locker and up to 3 gens are churning.
Your comments about how locker saves are inefficient is completely ignorant to how the perk actually gets used at high level. If one is in chase and one is making the save, and the hook gets denied, then it is FAR more efficient than just 3 people on gens. Its balancing your own efficiency with efficiency denial of your opponent, its why time is so relative in this game. You don't need 4x meme stacks if you just have two lockers side by side, or any other applications that the perk gets used. You're also then using the argument that usage of one excludes another, which is something you need to witness firsthand to experience: meaning they need to either not have dead hard to extend a chase (or not use it/use it too late/etc) or you have to get hit by a successful head on before you actually know they don't have dead hard (and even the first scenario, again, leaves room for doubt unless you see the animation.)
How does huntress throw over a jungle gym? you just tried to find some kind of flaw in my scenario without even considering the details, Jungle gyms have all high walls except for the vault window for obvious reasons. I was using a common experienced scenario to illustrate a specific frequent usage of the perk, and you'd rather look for ways to try to disprove it than even attempt to understand what it was trying to convey.
Cool im glad you don't get hit by it because you understand how far your collision goes past your view in a first person perspective of a game with a forced low FoV. That doesn't mean it would remotely be a good idea to allow one perk to completely throw off that entire spatial perception for yourself or anyone else just because you can't find value in the current perk. just don't run it then.
NO perk should be a reliable stun unless it has very specific circumstances (like DS, and even that has a token skill check for a reason.) Your argument is built around not understanding how absolutely devastating a single stun can be when done at the right time, and why they're generally limited to very telegraphed scenarios for the killer. Stuns should never force a lose/lose scenario, and I'm sorry that you refuse to understand how to use them as they are and instead demand more.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230341#Comment_3230341
Im not strawmaning anyone, I dont think you know what strawman argument is, Im not using extreme conditions and arguing only against them, I acknowledge Main Event is situational but when used correctly it gives you a lot of value.
My first post was a direct answer to OP saying main event is useless and I retorted saying is not useless, it can be super strong but its situational and people shouldnt expect to just press a button and get downs effortlessly then I got quoted by you saying what we all have been saying in this thread, the thing is situational and not always gives value, then again I agreed about the situational problem and noted OP and some others are just asking for a buff and now you come about strawmans, me getting worked up or assuming I didnt gave credit to duration, I just think it should be changed in another way instead of just tweaking how much it lasts.
I think you are the one getting worked up.
You're taking ideas from multiple people and conflating them together, then assuming none of them are willing to compromise in exchange.
They are not writting any single downgrade in exchange for the buffs they suggested, I have to assume they are not willing to give them or they should have posted them too.
You literally just started complaining about every extreme thing people want and lumped them all together, while offering no room for nuance, separation, nor compromise from any of them. Thats strawmanning, you're misrepresenting the other position to try to make your own look more sane.
Also you don't have to directly offer a negative to offer a positive. Nobody has stated they weren't willing to compromise in a manner like i discussed, or any other tradeoffs that are fair and reasonable. The fact you just tried to project any of that onto me means you're not trying to actually get any discussion from this though, so i guess further discussion is pointless.
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@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229663#Comment_3229663
It’s not really “on demand” when it takes 3 seconds to activate. Basically not able to use it at all in a chase unless you have quick and quiet but that’s still pretty rare. It’s more of a troll perk than anything. And the distance you make is weak
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229664#Comment_3229664
So you pre drop 1 pallet and don’t pre drop the next pallet you run to? I’d 100% take bringing smash hit chances than bringing head on lmfao at least I’d get value out of smash hit. Even if the killer had spirit fury and enduring
its on demand because it does not require a consumable resource. Lockers are literally everywhere in the game, and some maps have an extremely high concentration or frequency of them. They also don't get used up when you dead hard, you don't break the hinges off or anything when you do it, so yes it is on demand when compared to the other methods of stunning like DS or blast mines. being able to stun is an extremely powerful tool, which is what you don't seem to grasp.
I... honestly don't understand what you're trying to convey with that second comment. I was defending smash hit and giving an example of how to properly use it. Are you just that unable to understand head on and trying to use smash hit to make it look worse?
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@SMitchell8 said:
I just got a 4k on RPD with him. Loopers absolutely abuse him and yeah it can be a pain with him, but the trick is to make survivors go where you want them to go and if not, gamble. I absolutely love playing him on console.
Perhaps when the bots come, you'll be able to have a play around with it.
I've not tried Nurse or Blight on console yet 😅
Don't do this. If there is anything that is actually consistent with this game, its that one person's experiences do not invalidate anyone else's. You getting a 4k with oni on controller doesn't suddenly mean his control limitations are ok.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230325#Comment_3230325
There is literally people in this thread asking for 115% and vault windows during main event or being able to store it and its not the first time I see people going bonkers talking about it.
And yes we agree, if it were to be made more versatile it should get a nerf in some way, I dont agree with duration because the ability is still a free down if used in a ideal place, making it more versatile broadens the amount of ideal places and that can escalate to a point where once he has it at least someone is going to go down no matter what.
You're taking ideas from multiple people and conflating them together, then assuming none of them are willing to compromise in exchange. You're strawmanning everyone who disagrees with you. Its not productive and all you're doing is working yourself up. Also you're not giving enough credit to what "duration" means, it could literally mean that getting a down instantly ends it so that it can't be used to snowball, but it could be used both to spread pressure to multiple people if grouped, while still being able to secure a single down in a reasonable manner.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229972#Comment_3229972
Some of them still do care tho, mostly ofc I have a positive messages after such matches, but some of them are just... Idk it's weird.
@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230128#Comment_3230128
It's not actually even about bp or pips... I think at the whole - it's actually playing the game for fun, and don't sweat when you don't need to.
Look, let's say... You're playing a survivor and you're facing a "god nurse" for example, and this nurse is sweating as hell from the beggining to the point of none of the survivors have done anything and they're all on death hook.
Then this nurse just "turning down" for a bit and letting them complete some stuff, she still chasing them, but playing less efficient on purpose, is it really a bad thing to do as a killer?
I've seen some people even finding this rude when someone gives in on purpose, like: "I don't need you to go easy on us", it's actually feel like it has something to do with their ego.
Why do the killer needs to be sweaty, if he\she facing a survivors which are clearly not matching them for example? (MMR issue)
oh of course, and I still try to go for pips as well. They used to be much more important for people's priority and they incentivised more fair play and worked to create a buffer for efficiency where playing too efficient was almost a bad thing. All of that is gone now though, which is my point, there's just no real incentive from the game itself to play fair anymore.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229958#Comment_3229958
Of course not, I know the skill has a very limited use and you can spend a few games in a row without being able to use it but when it has the right conditions it can down several people in seconds with almost zero effort and nothing they can do against it, if it was to be made much less situational it would need to be nerfed too because right now whenever I get something out of it is almost always a game winner.
But of course people want the Main Event as it is now but running at 115% speed, vaulting pallets, windows and shooting lasers out of their eyes, which is absurd, especially for a skill that charges passively without much hassle.
No, instead of whatever that hyperbole you made up is, maybe they'd rather have it more effective and less limited with a tradeoff to something like the duration? Why do you assume people want it to become god mode when all they want is for it to be functional outside of all of the planets lining up or a solstace or two? It needs more versatility and it can lose duration to compensate for that and people would still be much happier with that than its current form.
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Ranks (now grades) arent tied to matchmaking anymore, they're specifically for the monthly reset bonus BP. People have distilled their win condition specifically into escaping or killing, as that is what the MMR scores are based off of. Most people just dont care about pips and it shows.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229962#Comment_3229962
I agree he is one of the worst - but not the only bad one at all. And I am playing on pc with controller as well and tried every killer.
i already stated that that’s true, just asking for a dev to play them isn’t really going anywhere if said dev has the same problems on other killers or could even perform way better than your average controller player on trickster. Just give feedback that is reasonable
They want a dev to play them in the same way as the Kote experiment: its a way of conveying to the devs that they should subject themselves to what they expect the end user to be willing to accept. Like i'm sure we all agree that controller controls for killer need work across the board, just that trickster isn't even a 115 killer so his power is his primary source of downs. It needs to be much more polished than it is, especially on a control device that is already suffering comparitively.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3229954#Comment_3229954
Eh. Trickster isn’t even the only one though and it’s not that bad either.
pretty sure it was tested and just not given the needed attention as it’s kinda on par with the general controller experience.
Its worse than that. As someone who plays controller on pc for survivor, I've given most of the killer roster a whirl with it and trickster is absolutely one of the worst for how difficult it is to compensate for the jitter compared to how you can with a mouse, its night and day.
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@HectorBrando said:
Main event is so strong in open field you can down 3 Survivors easily, I know because Ive done it, do you want to press a button and get a guaranteed down in every single situation?. And Wraith isnt weak in the slightest, the burn mechanic can be easily bypassed by straffing or zigzaging.
This thread sounds like a "git gud" problem to me.
So you regularly find yourself in open fields on lerys? is it often enough that you are able to find a perfect time within the 30 second auto expire to be able to activate the power, sit through the little flourish, and still land all of your knives you need to before they break LoS and you slowly try to get around that same corner?
Its extremely situational, extremely limiting, very map geometry specific, and it has too short of a storage duration for any of the previous points. At least with killers like mikey you can 99 your power and keep it there until you're ready to use it instantly, trickster's power just doesn't have enough killer agency tied to its impact strength: to many factors are beyond your control concerning it.
If all 4 survivors stand in a line and just keep teabagging, yeah sure it'll get some good damage in, but good survivors won't even be anywhere near an open area without having an escape route and LoS blockers to cover their angles.