RpTheHotrod
RpTheHotrod
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Oh man, we X-Philes would love this.
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030513#Comment_3030513
I think at the point a survivor stops making an effort to leave, BHVR doesn't really mind what the killer does to them if they get caught. The 5s endurance and haste effect is also pretty worthless if the survivor, say, doesn't try to relocate and just gets healed immediately under the hook. If they don't leave and the killer comes back and finds them standing right there - its probably unfair to the killer to have that treated as 'off-limits'.
The problem continues, however, when they do run off. 60 seconds later, you've been hooking, chasing, kicking gens, etc, and turn a corner and suddenly there are two survivors. You both hooked them recently. Which one do you go for? One of them is completely immune. It's a guessing game. One will loop you for awhile, all while leaving the other to their own devices. Whoops, you failed your D20 roll and found out all that time spent getting looped by the survivor you chased ended up having endurance stored up the whole time, while the other survivor just finished a gen. There's no figuring it out, there's no outsmarting, there's no tactics. When you come across a survivor, it's simply a 50/50 chance that they are even worth chasing down since you have no way to know if they stored their immunity or not. It makes playing killer very unfulfilling and a waste of time at the end of the case if they ended up having a guaranteed get out of jail free card because of something that happened earlier in the match. It gets even worst if you end up having a squad who are dressed EXACTLY the same. Which one of the 4 clones do you go after? One, heck, maybe even two of them have endurance stored up for the next minute or so.
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It's an issue even with the current Dead Hard, so not much of a difference.
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Oh, and survivors running Off The Record should show some sort of indicator that they are untouchable during the duration. 80 seconds is a LONG time. A lot can happen in that time period, and it would be frustrating to run over to an area and see two survivors in the proximity of a gen and you chase one down through loops and killer shack only to find out 30 seconds later that they "stored" their immunity and hereby completely invalidating your time wasted chasing them through loops.
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Bodyblocking and flashlighting should at least cut the endurance timer down to a standard unhook timer. This new endurance thought from BHVR assumes survivors are actually trying to get away from the killer after being unhooked, but normally people with endurance just stick around the area while they have their safety state turning their endurance into an OFFENSIVE attack towards the killer. This is in 100% opposition of endurance's design intention.
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@Mikeasaurus said:
I personally love when a survivor last second switches to a Flashlight. You can guarantee they will follow you around like a lost puppy when in chases and practically throw themselves onto the hook for you.
This is true. I had this happen just last week. First SWF advertised their flashlights in the lobby, so I countered with Lightborne and pretended I didn't have it. Hilariousness ensues. The first person hooked just ended themselves immediately and the followups DC when they realize they aren't accomplishing anything. The second group swapped to flashlights in the last possible second, but the best part about SWF flashlight squads......they are incredibly predictable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbeYvTYK3w -
With either answer, the killer needs to have some sort of indicator that a person is immune (ONLY for Unhook\BT\OTR - not for medkit addon related endurance). The whole point is to stop tunneling. Showing the killer they can't harm the survivor would do just that. Without an indicator, the survivors could easily abuse their immunity by intentionally trying to grab the killer's attention to go after and chase them knowing that they aren't in any actual danger. Imagine a couple of 80 second immune survivors running around trying to loop the killer and the killer wastes their time chasing after them when they actually aren't in any danger from the killer, at all. This new endurance thinking needs to prevent the survivors from turning it from an escape feature to an offensive feature against the killer. 80 seconds is a long time. You'll break line of sight easily during that time. Killer needs to be able to know if a survivor is actually capable of being attacked.
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Just to clarify, by reverse, he means the colors reversed, not the idea reversed.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029322#Comment_3029322
A survivor shouldn't get a guaranteed escape in the end game just because they have one perk equipped. Seems to me the reason they nerfed Decisive Strike to not activate after the fifth generator is repaired anymore. Don't see why the same logic isn't being applied to Off The Record.
A killer has no more generators to patrol, it's unreasonable to expect them to go for the other survivors in the end game (presumably all healed up by the time they go for the unhook). The other survivors can still help by tanking hits, using flashlights, toolboxes, other altruistic perks, etc. 80 seconds of endurance in the end game is essentially uncounterable.
Neither killers nor survivors are entitled to all or nothing games. I feel this would lessen the gap between matches like that.
I'm fairly confident at the very LEAST that OTR will be disabled in the end game collapse, as there's no more "progressing the match" actions beyond that point. Besides, it's a guaranteed escape...which is the reasoning behind DS disabling in the endgame collapse.
That being said, BHVR still doesn't seem to understand that survivors don't use endurance to get away from the killer but instead use it to put offensive pressure on the killer with flashlights and bodyblocking. That very much concerns a fair amount of players. However, my post focuses on the unintended consequences at turning the game into guesswork.
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I thought the same thing until I understood that the 5 seconds of exhaustion after leaving a gen actually persists indefinitely until they stop running. The Exhaustion "going away" timer is in a pause status any time they are running. So, if you're coming up on a gen they are working on, when they run away, they are completely out of their exhaustion perks unless they are walking away from you, but normally they just run. It makes catching up to them a lot more manageable. It helps counter stuff like sprint burst, lithe and balanced landing.
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@GoshJosh said:
Just remember that a conspicuous action will disable OTR. You really think they’re going to stand around all day to tank a hit with it, while being unable to repair gens or do anything else to progress the game? It’s way more appealing to be healed up and continue doing gens. It will punish tunneling while not allowing the survivor to complete any objectives, which is a good thing.
The only adjustment I think it needs is disablement in the end game. At least the endurance aspect.
Yes, that's exactly what they'll be doing. We know this because what's the FIRST thing someone does when getting unhooked with BT? They don't retreat. They know they are getting a free pass and stick around for flashlight blinds or bodyblocking. They don't simply just run away (at least at higher MMR).
What they are going to do is have the gen pushers, but anyone unhooked, they get a free pass, so they'll be running around doing whatever they can to get the killer's attention on them and away from people working on gens (the opposite of what the new perk description says). They know if they get the killer's attention, they will just run them around for a few minutes laughing their butt off because they know the killer doesn't have a chance at actually downing them since they have 3 health states hidden. It'll get even worse when you have a SWF who all run the same skin to really make things confusing. It'll just become a guessing game who has endurance and who you should be chasing. Running around getting looped, ends up they had endurance the entire time, all while gens are getting pushed elsewhere. It's completely opposite of the intention of endurance - to ESCAPE the killer and be an anti-tunnel method. On the contrary, this 80 second endurance is something survivors will WANT to get the killer's attention on, because if you can waste the killer's time for 80 seconds, especially when mixing in multiple people with Off The Record swapping in and out, your team is getting gens done.
At the moment, it's been a minute since you hooked someone. You see them. You've had other hooks in the meantime and some chases, but they are in a gen area. You go after them and game as usual. After the changes go into effect, it's been a minute since you hooked someone. You see them. You've had other hooks in the meantime and some chases, but they are in the gen area. Hmm, SHOULD you go after them? It's a 50\50 chance that it's a complete waste of your time, because they may be "storing" their endurance just to waste your time. You'll never know unless you go through the chase! Awww, sucks for you.....they had endurance the WHOLE time, and guess what, they just finished another gen.
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@Nos37 said:
The change would make it a Dead Hard on demand, buying them a window of safety to reach more safety, instead of it being the hidden health state it is now.
The problem is, most players don't use endurance to reach safety. They use it to bodyblock or try running around risk-free for flashlight saves or attempt at tauning you into chasing them down if you don't realize they have endurance.
Prime example of how players use Endurance:
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027892#Comment_3027892
I dont get it, how would they be immuje from off the record? All it does is now show your aura and not cause any pain grunts, rather useless imo
They are changing it in an upcoming patch. It will now give you 80 seconds of endurance after you get unhooked. Doing something productive like doing a gen or healing another survivor cancels it early. Problem is, they can just have 2 or 3 people entirely be dedicated to bodyblocking or wasting your time doing chases where you can't damage them anyway.
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Endurance is a problem because, despite BHVR's opinion on how players use endurance, they rarely actually use endurance to get away. They literally use it to MAINTAIN a presence for flashlight saves or bodyblocking.
Prime example from a match a few minutes ago:
0 votes and 0 comments so far on RedditWhat's worst is when you'll have all 4 survivors running the new Off The Record while all wearing the same survivor skin. It'll be just a chaotic mess of guesswork of who you can and cannot hit. Even without skin abuse, a lot happens in 80 seconds. You could easily break away from an encounter and run across another survivor. Who knows if they've done a conspicious action in the last 80 seconds. It turns the game into random guessing if someone is even able to take damage. You can spend precious time chasing down someone through loops only to find out, ha jokes on you, they are immune.
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I typically wouldn't mind tunneling and camping because in theory it should come to a great cost to the killer...3 survivors having an all you can eat buffet on the gens. However, there are too many backup plan perks that can completely eliminate this cost such as NOED. They can just tunnel one person, let others do all the gens, and then get handed free one hits to clean up the rest. If it wasn't for endgame i-win perks, I would say let them camp and tunnel at their own risk.
That being said, there ARE endgame i-win perks, so there's no real balance to facecamping.
Me personally, I mostly play killer, but I typically let the last hatch, or last two have a heal party if the survivors were having a rough time.......with one exception. If someone is flashlight spamming or crouch-spam taunting, I will absolutely have no mercy on that survivor. If survivors match up to me and are playing to harass, they do so at great risk to themselves.
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025685#Comment_3025685
... really my dude? You can hide without disturbing crows. Crouch.
Crow's purpose is to make you aware of your surroundings. Which is the use of Calm Spirit(currently) so you don't disturb them. Then you have the killer perk, Spies From The Shadows, which gives you a notification when crows are disturbed within 36m
Crows also give away the killer's position. Goes both ways.
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I'm a killer main, but I honestly suspected that Spinechill would have simply not worked against undetectable. Rather surprised on the nerf, myself.
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@Gahbage said:
I've been playing Scratched Mirror Mikey and Sadako religiously for the past 2 months, Most games ending in a 3-4k. Stealth killers need information to work, All of them should have a way to see auras baked into their powers. Stealth gives up everything to get in close, The reward should be a chance at a gen grab or cutting off a injured survivor. Sadako's map-wide mobility doesn't mean much when you're just jumping from loop to loop while gens pop.
Scratch Mirror should be basekit.
Sadako's addon that shows the aura of anyone holding a tape while near a active TV should have been basekit.
I wish survivors had a green stain while a killer is undetectable and within a certain range. They can just spin their camera around while on the gen and if you get lucky you can sneak up on them. Stealth needs that information.
Funny, I was literally thinking that for GF and Myers...being able to see a survivor stain IF they are on a gen. However, it might be a bit OP considering you could just wait until they aren't looking which would mean looking around would be mostly pointless as the survivor.
That being said, the spinechill nerf should help significantly.
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It's pretty terrible. I get revealed by survivors through walls all the time. Like, this isn't around a corner. LITERALLY straight up through solid walls.
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It's going to be a problem when you have 4 people running it all having the same skin. 3 people just constantly run around looping the killer. The killer won't be able to figure out which one is protected and have to tear through NINE health states while the 4th member is off on a gen somewhere. Killer try to get to the gen repairer? Then they just run around in circles, wasting even more time while the gen one sneaks off to continue doing a gen. Killer downs and hooks one? They just get unhooked and join the loop confusing party again.
On top of that, even if you don't have a SWF doing this, hitting ANYONE you have ever hooked will became a game of chance if it'll even have an affect. You see two survivors you've hooked before, which one do you chase down? Who knows if either of them have repaired a gen or are going to be immune to your hit.
This is just a terrible, TERRIBLE game design decision. Turns the game into a game of chance every time you strike someone.
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@Nos37 said:
I heard someone mention the idea of the killer seeing which survivors have the Endurance status effect with a white glow/aura/outline.
That would be good.....but I don't think it should trigger for endurance situations with the addon that gives you endurance for a few seconds. Wouldn't be able to "trick" a killer if it was announced you're immune.
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@Ripley said:
Grabbing survivors off gens is not skillful. There is literally no skill involved if a survivor just ignores you.
It's not about being skillful, it's about punishing lazy and oblivious survivors. Also, stealth killers somewhat depend on the ability to grab off gens.
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From unhooks, maybe, but if you're caught off guard doing a gen, you absolutely should be punished.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998407#Comment_2998407
Your idea sounds more like a legion rework tbh
The Legion has no issue with map traveling with his speed, however. He doesn't need a teleport.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3005992#Comment_3005992
If you are completely Undetectable, it would be op as hell. Imagine a Wraith who is always invisible.
We're not talking about invisibility. We're talking about killers that you can see clear as day having undetectable not trigger spinechill\auras and such. They need the crutch. Wraith has freaking invisibility, he's fine as-is.
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@lemonsway said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2998894#Comment_2998894
How do you know they are actually scared? DbD isn't a horror game.
I've watched some playbacks on twitch streamers that I match against. I usually get some fun reactions.
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I have fun, but only thematically. I main Ghost Face because theme-wise, just a load of fun...especially when playing to spook and jumpscare. However, he's frustrating to play at high MMR because he's just so weak due to his power being easily disabled. He has little approach potential in high MMR.
I also have fun with Deathslinger because I'm a fan of gunslinger type of characters. Again though, he's weak vs his counterpart huntress.
Long story short, it's fun...thematically. It's not so fun mechanic-wise.
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@Hewikll said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003537#Comment_3003537
Considering that a failed reel on an injured survivor is a wasted shot and even more of a time lose than a miss, a change seems necessary. Hitscan though is way to much of an over reaction though, the balance would go from to survivor skewed to DS skewed in a bad way.
Hmmm, fair point. Hitscan can get pretty hairy in games.
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I play both killer and survivor, but mostly killer since I tend to not have a lot of gamer buddies who are on when I'm on. Long story short, consider me a killer main.
People WANT to play with their friends. That's how you build a community. SWFs are necessary. Forcing people to play solo is not a good idea...even if it's difficult to go up against.
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@TheMadCat said:
I don't know what RSVP means, but for the event, if you interact with an invitation during the match as a Survivor, you have to do it before the exit gates are opened or before the hatch is closed.
But you need to be alive when the exit gates are opened or the hatch is closed.
Correction: You need to be alive when the exit gates are opened or the hatch is opened.
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The entity is supposed to "power up" killers in some way, but GF is just a dude with a knife. I think GF should be invisible or a low to the ground dark cloud to survivors 32 meters or further away. That way he can at least approach on the large open maps, but once closer, they can see him as normal. Bear in mind, that would be a per survivor effect. For example, a survivor within 32 meters of him could see him, but a survivor beyond 32 meters wouldn't.
Either that, or allow him to mark 3 lockers. If he hops into a locker, he can teleport to one of the marked lockers to simulate there actually being two killers on the field. Once he teleports to a locker, the new locker loses its mark, but the old locker he came from gets a mark. This at least lets him have some better map presence as opposed to hoofing it everywhere. He can't stealth everywhere, as he's too slow while stealthed.
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Kind of wish it was hitscan within a certain range with the reel in requirement penalty built-in versus the projectile hit of the huntress. As long as you hit with her, it's an actual hit.
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It doesn't hurt me, personally, but I'll admit I do feel a bit of eye strain during it. I think it's because our eyes naturally want to overcome "hard to see" fuzziness.
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@Zachcjjj said:
idk its not that hard tbh so what if it takes a couple games to complete atleast its not the unhook people who unhooked you earlier challenge
Not that hard, no, and it takes a couple of games, sure, but sucks to be your teammates for those two games.
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MM generally isn't a fun concept. If it works perfectly, then you feel "stuck". Without MM, sometimes you're killing it, sometimes you're getting killed. With working MM, it's a struggle every match. Getting forced into a certain population ends up making the gameplay a bit stale.
That's just my opinion, however. I'll tell you one thing, I hate getting to Iridescent I as killer, because so many matches either have a cheater, dealing with bully squads, or EVERYONE is a looper, so the entire match is just chasing with loops. Not a fun experience.
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@dugman said:
As a killer I have been impacted a bit by this perk so it’s not totally useless. Not being able to see gen or hook auras for 30 seconds is kind of annoying as a killer, especially since you’re a solo player so if you’re not sure where something is there’s nobody to help you find it. And since you can get blinded during any pallet break it can happen multiple times a match.
I’m not saying it’s “game winning” or anything, but it’s definitely noticeable.
I do think 30 seconds of no aura reading on survivors is also fairly useful. That's enough to hide yourself for a heal from a nurse's calling killers, as well as save you from aura reads like BBQ and such. 30 seconds is a pretty decent chunk of time.
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Challenges should never, ever put your team at a significant disadvantage. That's practically trolling. I really wish devs would understand that.
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I mean, the ONLY reason I started playing killers was because of The Ghost Face. I prestige III'd him, and I've gotten to Iridescent I every "season".
He's certainly not S tier, but he's still a lot of fun. My main gripe is stealth DOES tend to go to the wayside at higher MMR and it ends up just charging up stalks then doing boring M1 chases. Stealthers are great on indoor maps, but not so great at outdoor maps. I feel that stealthers need some sort of additional ability to make up for the lack of ability to stealth with how people can just aim their camera down and see over walls to see anyone coming a mile away.
A simple suggestion for addressing it at least for GF ties into lore. The entity typically empowers killers in someway. The GF is just a dude with the knife. The entity could empower him by making him not visible (or at least a low to the ground smoke cloud) to anyone further than 32 meters away. This would allow him to travel from a distance unseen, but once he's within 32 meters, he's fully visible.
A more creative suggestion for The Ghost Face is that, much like where his inspiration comes from, there are actually TWO killers. This is simulated by Ghost Face being able to "mark" a locker. Once marked, another "The Ghost Face" hides inside. After that, the killer can enter another locker somewhere. This will essentially "teleport" him to the marked locker where he comes out as the "other killer", and now the locker he had just entered is the new marked locker. This will help him get around the map a bit better and have a better approach to an area than just walking there and being seen coming a mile away. If a survivor opens a locker with an inactive "The Ghost Face", there's a jumpscare, the survivor is exposed, but the inactive The Ghost Face closes the door. Either that, or the locker has a "The Ghost Face" outfit hanging inside, so the survivor knows that's a marked locker, but can't go in the locker. Maybe give The Ghost Face 3 marks to apply to lockers. Would be kind of like the Dredge, but he'd have to hop into a locker to activate the power, and he'd be limited to what lockers he could swap to.
Long story short, stealth killers are just fine and give a new take on going up against a killer. However, they DO need some sort of crutch due to third person cameras on the survivors.
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Have to disagree.
Blinds happen fairly often, mostly when breaking pallets. You can easily blind a killer every 60 seconds and have them lose the ability to aura track for the entire match. However, there is another issue with the perk. The issue is the 30 seconds where the killer is unable to see where gens or hooks are. This is a non-issue for experienced players, as they generally know where their gens and hooks are, but for new killers, it's a complete shutdown where they are just bumbling around. 30 seconds is a long time for them to be completely lost only to get flashed again and hit with another 30 seconds. They can spend the match just being lost. 60 seconds would be gutting them.
Let's face it, we have a lack of killer players. We need to be encouraging people to start playing killer (as BHVR has shown considering the BP bonus for playing "needed roles" in the future). Getting into killer as a new killer is very overwhelming, and with bully squads, post trash-talk and such, it's easy for them to get disheartened. There's a reason some people try killer and never try again. Now, we have a perk that can make that new killer experience even worse. Instead of being able to concentrate on their goal, patrolling gens, trying to hook survivors, and so on, someone with a flashlight (which is guaranteed now with the perk) can take new killers completely out of their objective while they are simply trying to find out where gens and hooks are. True, survivors also don't see them, but there are FOUR of them looking at once for these "hidden" objectives. Killers depend on having this knowledge already so they can plan ahead.
This doesn't really affect experienced killers all that much, no...but it is a direct nerf and huge pain point for new killers. We shouldn't be having game effects that are only being hell for new killers specifically and no one else. All this does is make a stressful situation more stressful. DBD NEEDS a healthier population of killers. If we're trying to encourage people to try playing killer, removing one of the baseline things a new killer needs - simply even knowing where their gens\hooks are, is not a good idea.
That being said, Residual Manifest should NOT affect the auras of hooks and gens. It doesn't do much against experienced killers, anyway. All it does is make the experience of new killers a more painful one...one that's very likely to prevent them from wanting to continue trying killer.
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@KateMain86 said:
Looks like a skin for Hunk if he somehow makes it in the new Resident Evil chapter.
Apologies, but who is Hunk?
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I prefer the old replacement. Not a fan of the returning printer.
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2986583#Comment_2986583
You strafe or moonwalk to counter Spine Chill without power/perk usage
GF and Myers HAVE to look in the direction of the survivors.
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I like the idea, but do consider it takes out the "decision" that GF has to make when there's multiple people in his view. That being said, he is a low tier killer, so he could probably use the love. As for Myers, I don't have him, so I can't really offer my feedback.
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@GoshJosh said:
Spine Chill is fine as is. It serves no purpose if it doesn’t counter undetectable.
gives you early warning for 95% of the killers, and 100% of them if not in stealth mode. Gives you a boost to action speed if they are looking in your direction. That's absolutely useful. It's just the 5% is a huge problem for those killers. It removes them from play.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
If I wanted to nerf Spine Chill, I would have buffed Premonition, the weaker Varation of Spine Chill; and make this perk be the only perk to counter Undetectable. Mean while Spine Chill will allow you to detect Normal killers without any Undetectable status effect apply to them. Spine Chill will be nerf in which Undetectable Stealth killer will not be detect anymore; and the Premonition perk will be the new go to perk to relie on stealth killer detection. Spine Chill
Drop the cooldown, or give a additional benefit to allow you the ability to detect Stealthy killer, like every 30 seconds, you can get 2 seconds of aura reading of the undetectable killer.
Aura reading I wouldn't agree with, but I'd be fine with premonition picking up undetectable. I'd say that's fair, considering you have to actively look around to utilize it.
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@DBDVulture said:
Just don't look at the person - it's really simple.
You have to as The Ghost Face. It's literally his entire ability.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I imagine the reason they're doing this is to stop killer trolls from taking the last person down and making them bleed out instead of finishing the match (so making it something the killer has to trigger would ruin that)
While that is a mild inconvenience, I realized it is just as easy for me to not down them and let them go to The Hatch themselves if I have a survivor who deserves The Hatch.
Simple solution I posted earlier:
- Killer gets the OPTION to mori when there's one last survivor
- Last survivor has the OPTION to give in to the entity after they have been lying on the ground for a total of 10 seconds once they are the final survivor. Doing so will cause the entity to kill the survivor immediately.
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Easy solution:
Keep things as they are except allow the final survivor to give into the entity if they are left on the ground for more than 10 seconds. This causes the entity to kill them outright.
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@Deadeye said:
I wouldnt like my bloodwebs to be spammed with stuff that doesn't help me tbh. Nice idea but I don't want to be forced to waste BP on it.
But the glyph thing itself is actually something that gives the killer a benefit. If survivors have an additional target, they don't sit on gens. So it would not be the "1 gen less" thing. If the glyph doesnt only take 1 sec to commune with.
If you get conditions on it like "cleanse a totem once per game to activate a glyph" and that glyph gives you another 2k BP or something, you could even run it with Pentimento. Possibly you could do some more conditions that dont force survivors to throw the game but create some type of interaction maybe
I'm not sure how it would spam your bloodweb. I said when you purchase something in the bloodweb, there's a chance you'll ALSO get a glyph gift. They wouldn't "take up space" on the web.