Rokku_Rorru
Rokku_Rorru
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I'm enjoying the variety it brings to a trial, I'd love to see it refined down the line and given more care in future iterations so it's fun for both sides for it to exist.
Some maps its abysmal in like swamp where the distance is huge between them, and the points they give are non-existant and frustrating if someone finishes one you worked the majority on. -
@MissiCiv said:
The cooldown should be increased.
40 seconds is fine, it already has a healthy requirement and has useless cases too, unlike say Kaneki who has basically no CD, a million perk synergy options and the like.
we should be focusing on buffing perks like Invocations or boons -
I honestly don't mind how it used to be, it should have just went to 0 on hook like it currently does. The hinder was fine for a punishment for it since it took time.
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Why don't they let slinger shoot walls and reel himself to them? LOL
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Have you tried swamp yet? The pumps spawn on the outer wall and in some cases it takes forever to complete gens because of it, it's awful.
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@Rogue11 said:
I don't see what is so hard to understand about why these changes make flashbangs useless. They are now essentially a zero range, single use flashlight, with way tighter timings as you have to drop it earlier and from closer than a flashlight save. In what world is that worth a perk slot over just bringing a flashlight?
Do they at least still work off head on stuns and pallets/windows?
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I've been okay while playing killer, of course there is the odd game where if my pressure is unlucky or bad they manage to get the gens real quick, but I'm okay with that, the points are good and I get to run chase builds.
I'm a bit sad I can't do unforeseen with the builds as easily tho, I love that perk. -
@OneNineTwoNine said:
Yesterday I played survivor for an hour. I dropped 7 pallets, 5 of them ended with me being hit through it after the animation got cancelled and then my survivor vibrating on the ground afterwards.
Something funky is up with the netcode. This didn't happen before.
Yeah the vibrating and the animations going wierd is definately new, sometimes it feels like a weight is attatched to you
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@HeyBlakee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907660#Comment_3907660
i’m completely with tensa here.
There’s no point in further discussion though. While I appreciate Mandy responding to this post. I’d like to say that was probably the most lackluster official response I have ever seen. I am genuinely disappointed in the team if that is your final decision and all you have to say in a very-detailed post that highlights an issue, provides data and proof to mechanics of an item being bugged, offers suggestions for balance and addresses counter arguments. You will address wall bangs, blinding outside of LOS, and clipping through killers (which was patched over a month ago btw! Nobody brought this up because it is not an issue!!) as an exploit and unintended mechanic.
An unintended mechanic? That was in the game for nearly a decade? Why was it not changed like 7 years ago? All you guys did was change a tunable value which is like 6-7 keypresses LMFAO
Anyways, I digress. Besides giving an absolute absolute donut of a response. The team somehow also managed to not even mention the inconsistencies and bugs that I gave data for and made clear in the post. So we will write this off as an unintended mechanic or exploit because its frustrating to the killer side, for nearly a decade, and within the same post we won’t mention fixes coming to the flashbang mechanics that would benefit survivors and make the item feel less ######### to use?
With all due respect, the game balance/design team is lazy as ######### and caters way too much to one side. These changes are god awful without fixing the issues I highlighted in the post.Yall lost a few of your most dedicated players yet again. Congratulations.
Yeah bug is definately not the word LMAO
It's fair enough its unintended, but it's a nerf, it's a balance change, you didn't fix any bug, you just made it less effective lol. -
@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907712#Comment_3907712
Face camping isn’t possible anymore
it is, you just get a bar going up that lets you force 2nd hook faster wooooooo
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3907680#Comment_3907680
Minor tweaks are fine, but when you purchase a product and it is changed SUBSTANTIALLY within a short period of time you were 100% misled.
I don't think they are gonna fully rework the power, just nerf things lol
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I'd love any of the silent hill survivors reworked, they really need it <3
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@Reinami said:
Its how it works in every other multiplayer game. The advantage usually lies with the attacker. But in DBD, there is only 1 attacker.
It really isn't right now, nothing is reading correctly right now, somehow they manage to change how latency feels every patch without even documenting it. Makes you feel like you're going crazy
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@Bodark said:
I have been 3 and 4 man outted more times than I can count. I have played 100+ matches and lost 50-60+ of them. I’ve looked up guides and it doesn’t matter. This killer is waaaaaaay overrated. If this killer was OP and had no counterplay like everyone said I should be winning almost every single match. Nurse and Blight I can win 50 games in a row easily. This killer is NOT S tier. Low A MAYBE.
I can 4k with any killer easily except Houndmaster, Legion and Kaneki now. Getting downs is borderline impossible unless it’s a big map with few pallets. I do far better with Trapper than this killer honestly he’s just not that good.
Every chase is the same. Free injury followed by the survivor dropping the pallet, me breaking it, using my power to catch up and then the survivor pre drops the next pallet. Rinse and repeat till no gens are left and I have 3 hooks max, unless I get bad survivors.
He’s NOT better than Nurse. He’s NOT better than Blight. Hell; hes a better Legion and thats it. Good Gen control, ZERO lethality unless the map is big and few pallets. I do at least 100x better with Huntress who has a bottom 5 kill rate than him.
this is just Nightlights stats and not even the wider picture BHVR has, from experienced players who use these stats to improve at the game.
I think something's wrong lol. -
I feel like it should be the same as legion, or longer based on the distance travelled using it.
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You can literally use the momentum for boil over if you pay attention to the rhythm, by strafing in the direction you want to go, it just takes a bit of practice lol
I don't see an issue with their perk honestly, the people who cry about them don't want build variety in the game, and that's just silly. Iron Grasp is if you have issues getting to hooks and you want to make it easier, Boil Over is just to waste time in most cases, as it rarely works on an experienced killer without help. -
@Marc_123 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QMHOCA3EFONV/ww1-jpg.jpg
The model would be kind of a variation of Demogorgon.
I would like a Werewolf in game.
Give him a giant butt too, boy deserves to be caked up, the community yearns for the full moon
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@Zakon05 said:
Obviously the Ghoul is overtuned, but I think people are just using confirmation bias here to see a pattern that doesn't really exist.
Beginning with the chapter I joined on, which is Pinhead:
- Hellraiser: Upper B tier killer, solid perks but nothing overpowered, hasn't really been nerfed in any way other than making solving the box easier while the Chain Hunt is rolling.
- Ringu: Sadako released in a notoriously bad state aside from a slugging playstyle which wasn't discovered for months. Her best perk was Call of Brine, and it didn't become meta until the big perk overhaul. Yoichi's perks are niche/mediocre.
- Resident Evil 2: Wesker is a strong but balanced killer with mediocre perks, hasn't really needed to be nerfed all that much, and his perks are mediocre. Ada has one interesting perk and two mediocre ones. Rebecca is the most noteworthy part of this chapter for the argument that people are making, because Hyperfocus is really strong when you build around it, and Reassurance is one of the best anti-camp perks in the game, but neither of them have been nerfed.
- Alien: Xenomorph got a pointless buff going from PTB to live which got rolled back shortly afterwards, and Xeno hasn't been touched since then aside from an ill-advised attempt at rebalancing it which got walked back. Ultimate Weapon was really blatantly overpowered on release and was obviously due for a nerf, so this is the first example I can think of for paid-only DLC which is deliberately tuned too strong. Xeno's other perks are niche and not problematic, and same goes for Ripley.
- Nicolas Cage: One of the best content drops in the game's history. Three fun, strong, but not overpowered perks which haven't been adjusted since he came out.
- Chucky: He was too strong on release, got reworked and was still very strong for several months until they over-nerfed him. They just re-buffed him and he's pretty strong again, but not on the level of Spirit like he used to be. His only noteworthy perk is Friends 'Til The End, which hasn't been nerfed.
- Alan Wake: Champion of Light is the only noteworthy perk, his other two are bad. If anything, this chapter is an argument against the idea they intentionally overpower paid DLC to nerf it later, because unless you're a flashlight lover, Alan has nothing to offer you.
- Dungeons & Dragons: Mage Hand was a little too good on release, but otherwise Vecna is pretty balanced and hasn't seen much in the way of adjustments. His perks are mediocre aside from Weave Attunement being an annoying solo queue stomper perk in its release state when combined with Franklins Demise. Aestri's perks are mostly meme perks.
- Tomb Raider: This is roughly on the same level as the Alan Wake content drop, with one decent perk which hasn't been nerfed and two bad perks.
- Castlevania: Dracula released strong, got a buff which made him overtuned, and then got nerfed into… still being really good, just less unfair. His and Trevor's perks are niche.
- Tokyo Ghoul: We'll have to see where this goes, this is one of the most blatantly overpowered things they've released since I began playing other than original Circle of Healing, but considering what I just listed, I don't see a pattern of this happening. His perks are niche to bad.
All in all, there are actually not that many blatantly OP things which needed to be walked back later, and some of them are from original chapters you can get with auric cells. Object of Obsession, Decisive Strike, Mettle of Man, Boon: Circle of Healing, Made For This, and Ultimate Weapon. Chucky got re-buffed so he doesn't count. It's really not a big list. Ghoul belongs on this list, but we don't know what their ultimate fate will be or how hard they'll be hit with the nerf bat.
I still think Lara deserved better, like a jump exhaustion to allow her to get up to hill elevations. It'd be a unique utility that would give survivors a fun new mobility option like the likes of Mobility killers have.
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@HeyBlakee said:
Hello, my name is Blake. I've previously gone by Renfurr and been playing this game since 2016. I'm a survivor and Hillbilly/M1 Variety Main. I'm kind of known as being the flashlight/flashbang locker dude, generic "toxic" survivor main as I've been doing locker saves since as early as 2017. Just a quick headsup that it is currently like 4am for me and I am sick with the flu so please bare with me if I forget to cover some things in this post.
This is going to be a pretty in-depth post regarding flashbangs and the recent change that was made in the latest update.
As of the recent update with the release of Tokyo Ghoul, the developers decided to make a change to Flashbangs. This change was written in a way to make it seem like this was a bug rather than a straight up nerf to Firecrackers, Party Starts, and Flashbangs.
Perks
- Fixed an issue that caused a Killer to be blinded while looking away from a Flashbang.
In reality, this change was a direct nerf to the Flashbang perk and Firecracker/Party Starter items. What this change does is that it decreases the blind angle/radius of these items.
Here is the exact line of code from the tunable values file pulled straight from FModel.
After 8.6.0
"Firecracker_BlindEffectLineOfSightThreshold": {
"Value": 0.422618,
"Description": "Angle threshold above which players will be blinded. Value of 1.0 means staring directly at the Firecracker, 0.0 at 90 degrees, and -1.0 at 180 degrees"
},
Before 8.6.0
"Firecracker_BlindEffectLineOfSightThreshold": {
"Value": 0.0,
"Description": "Angle threshold above which players will be blinded. Value of 1.0 means staring directly at the Firecracker, 0.0 at 90 degrees, and -1.0 at 180 degrees"
},
Why Does This Matter?
Well, this matters for a multitude of reasons. To make it short, here's a small list if you don't want to read the entire post.
- Makes it near impossible to hit Flashbang Locker Saves on killers with KBM inputs/on PC.
- There is no sensitivity limit to KBM/PC Players, it takes only 2 frames to turn away
- There is no buffer to locker saves (KEEP IT THAT WAY)
- The reduced cone/angle decreases the amount of frames that a Flashbang will potentially result in a grasp rescue
- It is pure luck to actually hit a locker save (explained later on)
- Directly provides a disadvantage to killer players on Console
- Because there is a sensitivity cap for killers on controller inputs or on console, they cannot possibly turn their camera like a PC player, making it still pretty easy to hit locker bangs on them.
- You can no longer hit saves at a 90 degree angle, or "Wall" saves, where the killer is facing a wall.
- Creates really weird scenarios where the Flashbang or Firecracker looks like it should blind, but doesn't.
- Flashbang popping in the killers POV but still not blinding or being right at their feet and still not blinding.
- Removes a skill ceiling from the game, removes re-playability, and takes away a lot of fun interactions between survivors and killers
And before I continue with this post, it should already be obvious but I do not have a bias to either side. Yes, I main survivor and have been playing since 2016. But I want healthy gameplay for both sides, to promote any form of skillful gameplay on both sides, and to promote fun/different playstyles outside of running your generic anti-tunnel or chase builds, rushing gens as fast as possible and just outing the killer.
Proposed Changes (TL:DR)
From here on out, I will be going more in-depth. If you can't be bothered to read everything, here are the proposed suggestions.
- Revert the blind angle back to 0.0, or 90 degrees - killers being blinded while turning away is an issue with the network/latency from either the game server or the client, the blind angle is NOT the issue.
- Readjust the new blind angle to be somewhere between 65 and 75 degrees.
Cont. Information
From here on out, we will get more in-depth with the actual mechanics behind firecrackers and flashbangs.
Here are some basic numbers pulled from the game files.
Disturbance Distance Min. (Loud Noise): 2m
Disturbance Distance Max (Loud Noise): 100m
Blind Duration: 3s
Firecracker Explosion Radius: 7.5m (3/4 of One Wall on Shack or 3/4 of Max Flashlight Distance w/ no addons)
Flashbang Explosion Radius: 5m (Tip of Red Stain where it fades out)
Default Explosion Delay: 1s
Time to Throw: 0.5s (How long after pressing the throw input before triggering the default explosion delay)
Server Tickrate: 60Hz, or 60FPS.
Bang Blind Angle after 8.6.0: Unknown exact value, but roughly the size of the red stain.
Normal Pickups, Grab Saves, and Dredge Power (Locker) Saves all have a 0.4s Buffer, similar to flashlights
Locker Flashbang Saves do NOT have the buffer applied to them. (And we DON'T want it)
Locker Pull Animation Duration(No Perks): 5s or 600 Frames (120fps) 300 Frames (60FPS)
Normal Animation/Grabs Duration(No Perks): 3s, 360 Frames (120fps) 180 Frames (60FPS)
General Rules for Flashbangs
- If the killer has Higher FPS/Lower Ping = The more perfect your timing needs to be because the killer's client/network is sending and receiving data at faster intervals.
- If the killer has Lower FPS/Higher Ping = Survivors must adjust timing to throw LATER than normal timing because the killer's client/network is sending and receiving data at slower intervals
- Killers on console or controller inputs are easier to hit locker flashbangs on because their maximum sensitivity is limited, resulting in slower turns and more frames where a flashbang has a chance of blinding. (About 8-12 Frames after the animation depending on their hardware and sensitivity)
- Before the 8.6.0 update, you had about 4-6 Frames after the animation to hit a flashbang locker save on a PC killer who was trying to flick or turn away from the blind quickly. This solely depended on their ping as PC killers with less than 60fps is NOT common.
- After the 8.6.0 update, PC killers now flick away in 1-2 Frames after the animation because the blind angle is severely reduced as opposed to the original 90 degree blind. There is less area that the killer needs to cover when turning in order to avoid the blind.
- Looking straight up while flicking/moving your mouse and using the up arrow/camera up keybind as Killer makes your character look all the way up in 1-2 Frames always, so killers who knew about this were impossible to save against, even when the blind angle was wider.
Because the server is running at 60Hz, for every 16.67ms, is equal to 1 Frame (60FPS) or 2 Frames (120FPS).
An example of this would be the survivor having 40ms and the killer having 80ms.
The survivor now needs to factor in their input delay (2 Frames, 40/16.67) and the killers ping (4 Frames, 80/16.67). Assuming we are playing at 120FPS, that means the flashbang needs to explode on Frame 604 to be considered a perfect or "God" frame.
Note: Can yall make the blind radius/range of Bangs and Firecrackers the same btw? :3 <3
Inconsistencies/Bugs
The actual time before a flashbang/firecracker explodes is roughly 2 seconds, which is kind of odd as it should be 1.5s according to the code. I assume the time to throw time is applied twice, once when you press the input, and once again after the item icon actually disappears from your hand. I'm not 100% sure on that, but the timing is roughly 2 seconds.
Certain killers (Hunchback Killers) have bugged animations that make them sink inside of the locker making it extremely hard to flashbang locker save against as the bangs need a precise spot to land or an extra world object to line it up perfectly (for example, spots where two lockers spawn next to each other: Water Tower Locker on Macmillan Maps, Double locker spawns on generic Autohaven Tiles)
These killers include;
- Blight
- Demogorgon
- Singularity
The time between pressing the input to throw the flashbang/firecracker is inconsistent. On the release day of Tokyo Ghoul, we sat in customs for over 5 hours just throwing bangs and trying to hit on a killer on PC that is trying to flick or turn away. I recorded about 15 of these saves that I went for and marked down the timings of the frames when I pressed the input and when the flashbang exploded. The gameplay was recorded at 120fps, therefore, the time should be consistent, the bang should explode after 240 frames if we go by our 2 second rule. Well, it is inconsistent. I've attached a spreadsheet with my data from those 15 saves.
The TL;DR is that the lowest amount of frames before the flashbang exploded was 227 Frames. The highest amount was 237 Frames.
I will provide a spreadsheet to view my data from these 15 saves in this post as well as a link to view on Google Docs towards the bottom of the post.
ErrorPermission ProblemBang Testing.xlsxClose
General Conclusion and Counter Arguments
This change was extremely harsh, for zero reason. It completely removes a skill from the Survivors which is already extremely rare. You don't see flashbang squads every day who are really good at what they do. Most people don't even understand the mechanics behind them fully.
This angle change completely ruins a playstyle for many people and communities out in the fog, and it only affects players who have been practicing or playing for a long time/put in countless hours of trying to practice in public or custom games just to get a grasp of the timing.
By keeping this change in the game, you are killing the item/perk, removing killer/survivor interaction, reducing teamplay mechanics of an unconventional playstyle in a team-based 4v1, which by the way, has a perk that completely negates anything this item can do (Lightborn) as well as the new perk that came out which throws off timing completely and makes it a guessing game (Forever Entwined).
Not to mention, this forces the game into a more competitive direction. Players who run these perks/items, guess what they want? To have fun. To have equal and shared killer-survivor interaction. Typically, they don't want to escape and will be slammed by someone who is actually good at killer while also allowing for less experienced killer players to gain chase experience or try out their power in different ways, albeit it may be frustrating, the game is still being progressed and if progression does stop, the abandon feature now kills the survivors essentially.
We don't want to be forced to run the meta anti-tunnel or full chase builds every single game, rush through the objective, and be out of the trial within 8 to 10 minutes. The fun of this game comes from interaction between both sides. This playstyle allows for players to have something to do outside of the objective, allowing for teamplay in high risk, high reward and exciting situations. Sharing chases and trying to go for nasty plays is far more interactive and fun for both sides than having one person being tunneled out all game or being chased the entire game because they're running a syringe with Finesse, Vigil, Lithe/SB/Dramaturgy, and Resilience while the rest of the survivors sit on generators and escape.
Anyways, thanks for listening to my TED Talk.
Onto the Counter Arguments!
Locker Flashbangs aren't fair, I'm locked into animation for 5 seconds!
Survivors must be attentive to the ping and platform of players in the match and learn a very specific timing for varying pings, input delays, frame rates, while also not getting downed outside of a locker. Many killer players have told me how skill-less it is to do these over the years, but I have yet to see a killer player try to hit a locker save. It may seem easy, but I promise you, it is very impressive to consistently hit these types of saves when you consider all the nuances of the mechanics, chase powers, teamplay/coordination, and other nuances in the game.
Double Locker Setups are extremely broken, if they have Head On, I have no choice but to pull them and eat the stun/save or wait out crows just to get ONE!
I completely agree, lockers should not spawn right next to each other within Head On range. These were spawning in abundance after the Dredge update as a way to incorporate him into map design. Double lockers are indeed broken and lead to very unfun and frustrating experiences for the killer. In fact, that is why flashlight locker saves were removed. I used to do flashlight lockers before it became popular on twitch and in content creation. Once it gained popularity, people started bringing flashlights with built to last and double charge addons and would just sit in lockers until their beams ran out or until the server closed. The issue was never flashlight locker saves, the issue has always been double locker setups. These absolutely should be removed from the game and I apologize if you've ever had to deal with survivors like this. It is fun for one side and not the other, and we don't want that. We want fun interaction for both sides that rewards better plays. As a survivor main, I promise, we aren't all evil and out to hurt the other side <3
Well, it's also not fair that I can kiss a wall and still get blinded!
Again, I absolutely agree that it can be frustrating. But this can be countered by simply doing a quick glance around the area for other survivors and pushing them away far enough to where they cannot get the save in time. Remember, they have to throw that bang in front of your feet between 0.6 and 1 second after starting the animation. Unless there are multiple survivors covering all angles, forcing them away a certain distance and doing a unique turn will often give you a free hook. Hitting a wall save is simply a misplay on the killer players' behalf and a reward for positioning on the survivors behalf!
I can't counter grab saves because they just abuse the buffer and spam vault pallets/lockers.
If you lunge instead of short swinging, it will always result in a slug rather than a down. As for the buffer, as an old head DBD player, I think buffer should be removed completely to add skill back into the game. But from the developers' perspective, buffer exists to make these items and shenanigans more accessible to newer players or people who do not play as much. As much as I would love to have no buffer, it's unfair to newer players. Though, that doesn't mean it can't be revisited later by the developers to reduce the duration of buffer to make it require a bit more skill.
Survivors refuse to leave the Killer Shack or other tiles and don't progress the game!
There is now an abandon feature for situations like this where if you're just fed up, you can abandon the match after 10 minutes of no objective progress. But to not sound like an ######### and just say GO NEXT, you have to remember, flashbangs are a finite resource. For every 40% of a generator completed, that is one flashbang. Meaning survivors have to progress the game in order to craft more or your perks regress generators so that survivors can craft more flashbangs. Survivors can also bring in a firecracker to carry multiple flashbangs in their inventory. But as I mentioned, their resources are limited, if you genuinely don't know what to do, take that risk and JUST PULL the locker. It's a gamble whether the survivors hit the save or not. If they hit the save, remember, it's high risk and high reward. If they miss the save, that is a hook stage on your behalf!
Survivors who do this type of stuff are always BMing me and being toxic though?!
Try not to take it personally, bad days happen and we get that. At the end of the day, it's a game and we just want to have fun. Anything that happens in the game stems from a grain of salt or to spice up the game by getting in your head. At the end of the match, nobody is there to genuinely make you feel miserable outside of a few bad apples. <3
As an M1 killer with no perks or useful chase power, I can't do anything against survivors who are really good at abusing single locker rotations, what can I do?
Sadly, this has always been an issue for killers like wraith, plague, pig, bubba, etc. Luckily, not many players out there actually know how to use the locker rotation strategy properly against Tier 3 Bloodlust. I understand this is a frustrating thing to experience when you eventually do run into a coordinated squad like this, but believe me, it is rare. For now, the only option is to just pull and waste their bang resources. This is another one of those things that comes down to the developers and how they would want to go about nerfing this strategy, whether it be a locker pull change (like changing the animation from 5 seconds to 4 seconds) or increasing the length of certain tiles to prevent this strategy. However, like I said, this is kind of a non-issue because it is so rare and probably hasn't been on their radar nor is it an easy issue to address in other ways without affecting other aspects of the game.
If I missed any arguments you may have, feel free to ask below and I can provide a response, though, I'm pretty sure this covers most of the main complaints I've gotten from players and content creators over the years.
Extra Media
Example of a Flashbang Save that should've hit, but didn't hit. Looks really odd seeing a grenade blow up in front of a killer and not being phased by it at all? No lightborn, they had Deadlock, Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Pain Resonance.
40ms Survivor, 80ms Killer. Both 120fps. Bang explodes frame 604, same frame that killer slightly turns to the left. Should be "god" frame but does nothing because of the angle change update.
Wall bangs no longer work because of the angle change, also some footage of other wacky angles that SHOULD blind.
I would post some screenshots of the bang being like a pixel outside of the red stain right in front of the killers' feet and not blinding them but it is giving me permission errors on here, but you can always go test it out in a custom if you want to see it yourself in game, sorry <3
If you have any other footage or clips of your bangs being whack and not blinding killers during this update, please reply to this post with it or say something. The only way we'll get this reverted or adjusted is by being very vocal about it towards the developers <3
#SaveBangs
P.S. Make lockers glow with a bright yellow or white aura that intensifies when a survivor is in it with Head On ;) Had to slide that in there for the SoloQ gamers
Very insightful post, just shows how vague and unclear BHVR is when it comes to their changes. They need to state exactly what they did and be more transparent. It's the source of the catch up they are having to do with how buggy and ######### the game is rn, if they had proper documentation that THEY and the COMMUNITY could keep track of, it'd be easier to communicate when there are issues.
So Behavior start being more clear, honestly. It's not a huge ask, you'll kill your game slowly otherwise. -
I legit think it's a cash grab, they were worried about this chapter not doing well, so they probably overtuned it to make sure it sold, especially after Houndmaster.
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I would love just normal jungle gyms near the mid or either side of the main house, as soon as the pallets gone that's usually gg, it's over
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I mean if they keep it this way they'll bleed their survivor playerbase over the long term as more problematic killers get added, queue times right now are not quite 2v8 level but getting there.
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EU servers are awful too rn, getting horrible wierd desync and rubber banded back into hits, when downed I like stutter back a few steps as I fall over.
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I don't think Ghoul will stay this way, they kind of make the entire roster seem like a joke rn
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Honestly I think Killers need less info from lobbies these days, it feeds into the whole lobby dodging issue rn.
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I really like the buffs they've gotten this patch <3
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I think Horror media of all kinds should be welcome to DBD, I just love it's unique gameplay, and I wish they'd do more to nurture both sides having fun
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@indieeden7 said:
Can I ask a legitimate question, what would BHVR gain from intentionally making a killer useless? If a killer being strong somehow negatively affected BHVR's finances, I'd get it, but it doesn't. So what is the thought process behind your mentality?
(I'm answering in regards to nerfing them, not making them useless) Survivors stop playing and killer queues become really long, everyone gets bored and moves on to other games.
You need more survivors to make a full match, 2v8 shows the extent of this issue too in a more extreme case. -
@biggybiggybiggens said:
He'll get nerfed. Don't you worry. Every game as the Ghoul I see nothing but people disconnecting, and I don't blame them one bit. It's Wesker all over again.
Wesker wasn't this problematic at all? Not that I remember
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905363#Comment_3905363
- Try to predict him. Is he going to cut you off with his leap or is he trying to catch up behind you?
2. He's an M1 killer. He cannot down you with his power. He can injure you with it, but he's even less efficient at it than Legion. Yes, Legion, while simultaneously sharing their inherent weakness against being ran around loops (no way to hit through or over them.)
3. His power is only nichely usable when looping, so position yourself safely (be near buildings or tiles that reliably waste time for the Killer.)
4. If for whatever reason you cannot reliably position yourself properly, Kaneki doesn't typically use Exhaustion perks which means perks such as Lithe and Sprint Burst will help you connect safe tiles (or reach them in the first place) efficiently. But it's also not that simple because he can counter your Exhaustion perk by grabbing onto you if he's smart, so you have to make sure his power is on cooldown (or at least make sure he's out of sight) before you try to reach another tile/loop.
It's clearly a very interesting killer to play on both sides, and counterplay certainly exists. Most of the things you're able to do against Legion or Pig will work just as well against him. The irony is that Pig actually gets downs more consistently than Kaneki using their powers, since she actually has a lethal dash and he does not. Should we nerf Pig?
- so the issue with this point is the red circle isn't usually where he lands i've found, now that the slide was made basekit, it doesnt really translate to his readability very well. I find he sucks at loops but getting to the next loop is where its very hard, but its map dependant.
- Yeah, that's true, it's not much different to nurse though with how quick they can come out their power while sliding, I'm wondering if this is what will get targeted, especially since it has synergy with m1 perks unlike Nurse.
- Lithe is what I started using, sprint burst is harder to manage against him since he can stop you and cause your exhastion meter management to go out the window (if you had it like a second or 2 behind ready). Windows I find are the best way to deal with him but it's map dependant again.
I think it's great he is fun to play but I don't find him very fun to play against, but that's just my opinion, there are to many maps rn (which is probably the issue honestly) that have like 5 pallets or a couple of windows with too much space between, mainly the corn maps and Borgo so to speak.
So I do agree they need to keep this killer intact as people love playing them, and I think they should stay that way, but there are cases namely speaking because of the slide being made basekit, which have been oversights. I think them having a max range on their first hit (like needing to get close in a radius then bite not just outright get the bite first lunge) but keeping the rest would honestly be the easiest way, even if it still hit over windows and pallets (Thats how its intended anyways). would give it more a fun back and forth without killing the fun mobility he has.
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@Reinami said:
Would you rather go against nurses doing the same?
Nurse takes a lot more effort to play, and she isn't an anime boy/girl. lolll
at OP, Yeah this is my concern too, I'm planning on just playing killer to get my challenges done, its a shame coz I was looking forward to the new objective, I just cba with zero interaction gameplay. -
Honestly I'm okay with the hits at close range, but the long long range he can confirm hits is probably the main complaint I have, and the hitting through elevations jankly (but I'm sure they said they cant fix this)
Maybe the issue is with deep wounds still being too long as it'd be nice to find a balance between being able to heal and being pressured from healing?
The other issue is with how hooks and maps are designed too, particularly Borgo and the Corn maps where there isn't much, I feel they need brought closer to the new eyerie killer shack only map.
I think it's great people enjoy them, I also think it's wonderful they are accessible to play. They will probably recieve some tweaks to the sliding/scampering/1st hit jank I imagine from my time playing against them.
I don't think they are A-Tier currently, I think they will end up A-Tier tho post fixes, even the likes of Otz etc thinks they are really strong rn. I would say however they do suffer in the likes of RPD I've experienced.
Have you played much against them @Leon_Loves_Cheryl? How do you deal with them? -
The new Ormond mines map is probably my favourite new map they've made in a while and I'd love more that size with lots to play around with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904379#Comment_3904379
idk, I don't share the sentiment. It's hitscan, and it has an indicator when it's going to land. I feel like even if it was 1:1 with the survivor pill box (which is already generous in comparison to most games) it'd still be easy enough to land on controller. Far easier than any other killer power in the game.
the problem is with the 2nd hit the marker is false as they slide past it anyways to their actual location, it's misleading if anything as it is rn.
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@occult said:
This blood moon event is looking soooo good so far. From everything they mentioned and showed in the live stream (among other leaks). Tokyo ghoul is really good too!! I just wanted to put that out there because this Jane blood moon shirt looks AMAZING. seriously shows how they are capable of giving under appreciated survivors great cosmetics. I hope this trend keeps up especially with the upcoming anniversary chapter. Keep giving Jane good outfits and I’ll keep swiping my card I’m js. Great job
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZEI63800VQ2N/img-0547.jpeg
Oh I saw somewhere this was Haddie, so this is Jane?
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It's just awfully made and they can traverse the map like it doesnt exist too, Actually illy thought through about the players experience on the other side at all.
You have more patience than I to write something like this that's for sure. -
Can I just say how ######### this is to have the QoL initiative announced and then a killer like this released? I was hopeful but I'm losing faith pretty darn quickly, I'd like to enjoy the Blood Moon event without having to deal with all my matches forcing me into a specific perk loadout to enjoy myself slightly.
I'm beyond disappointed the more I've played today. -
@Emeal said:
Honestly this little tidbit on the Steam, just casually dropping that you are to remove huge parts of map variety, incredibly infuriating! Supposedly because someone says they fall short, well allow me then to push back on that.
Mistake 1: Variance is the Spice of Life
Without variants, every match on a specific map will feel identical, leading to predictable and repetitive gameplay. Sure, you may get a different tile if all maps have no variants. But different tiles are not enough to make matches feel fresh and unpredictable. It all comes down to the location of the strongest tiles and distance to them, the main building and the Shack, usually. What this does is that BHVR is saying, it's good to only enjoy one version of Ormond, with the exact distance between the strong places always the same.
If a map variant has to go, then I think you should reach a community-wide consensus and make people explain why this specific version is so awful. Check the win rate—does it create widely unfair matches?
Mistake 2: Survivors Don’t Need to Memorize Maps to Succeed
Some argue that survivors need to learn map layouts to do well. This is simply not true. Sure, in high-level play, knowing every detail of a map is beneficial, but for the vast majority of players, that level of memorization isn’t necessary. Dead by Daylight is, at its core, a party game. Keeping map variants makes gameplay more dynamic and fun, preventing every match from playing out in the exact same way. If survivors always know exactly where to go, and killers always know exactly what to expect, then the game risks becoming formulaic and dull.
Not knowing where you are going is part of the game. Honestly, that is good—now work with it. Games are not fun when you know everything.
Mistake 3: Survivors Should Have to Adapt, Not Memorize
One of the best things about DBD is the sense of tension and uncertainty. Imagine a horror movie where the victims know the exact layout of the building they’re trapped in. That’s not horror—that’s a chess match. Horror thrives on the unknown, on forcing players to adapt to their surroundings, not just recall them. Removing map variants turns every match into the same scripted experience, rather than a new and engaging challenge each time. Survivors should be required to figure out escape paths on the fly, rather than relying on rigid memorization.
Final Thoughts
I realize I may come off as very anti-professional and very anti-skill, and I get it. I understand why players like that would love removing variants because it makes the skill pool required smaller. But honestly, here you have the chance to develop a skill that works from unknown parameters, and they don’t take it. I don’t understand that.
I am deeply disappointed by this change. I understand that the developers have reasons for their decisions, but I truly believe that removing map variants will make the game feel repetitive, predictable, and ultimately less fun. Please reconsider this decision and listen to the community’s concerns. Variety is what keeps games like DBD alive, and taking that away is a mistake that will be felt by both survivors and killers alike.
I love this game, and I want it to continue thriving, but not at the cost of its core appeal for me.
And the Skill people already have maps such as RPD which is the same every time.
Let’s keep Dead by Daylight unpredictable, dynamic, and, most importantly, fun.I didnt see the new ormond map at all since it came out on PTB coz of the variants, good riddence lol
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I love their positivity! It's great.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
I have faced a lot of blights lately which is never gonna be easy unless they are new to them.
Mostly players lacking common game sense is the issue. Not following cues on the HUD, protecting other team mates and giver uppers etc….
Love going against a plague where everyone cleanses every time.
Get a good bunch of players sometimes and it's almost like being in a moderately good swf though.
Plague if using iri addons which the majority do these days that aura reads on vomit, it's really bad to not cleanse against her, especially if its an indoor map. Thats what majority build against now I've played against.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903723#Comment_3903723
Bro, what are you even on about my guy? I said Dracula got nerfed for players saying transformation time was too strong, so I expect Kaneki to get the same treatment. I don't know how much more pro-surv agency I can be here.
Sorry I misread your intention, I'm not too well today and got serious brain fog I can admit to my faults haha
I'm just so used to people on here defending everything -
I barely play solo anymore, I used to all the time. The recent killer today has really made me realise just how awful it is.
That and the new surrender option I've already gotten several uses out of today.
It's kind of sad -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903736#Comment_3903736
I am using Resi and MFT, which makes chases against him quite fun…
Definetly not good time for Finnese, or Dramaturgy.
I'm using those too and I still find him boring:
Balanced Landing, Resi, MFT and Vigil
Maybe my opinion will change as I keep playing, but I feel like I'm wasting my time atm so might just wait and see what others think and for more health changes -
Just so far I've found he isn't the most fun to play against, and given the past few updates of nonsense people are probably tired.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
So BHVR, we're just gonna pretend Dracula didn't get nerfed because players complained he was able to hit so quickly after transforming from bat, and you go and make a whole killer who's ability is based just around that.
Major nerfs better be incoming to this killer too if we're going to be consistent.
Dracula is fine, I still play him, y'all just want easy downs because you want survivors to have no agency.
This current killer is this way to make him sell better it's obvious. -
I'm not sure if he is strong or not as its too soon to tell, but I'm really not enjoying playing against him on live right now.
He can return to the hook way too easily and just cause an abandon situation because all the lobbies I'm in cannot be bothered with it.
He works too well with blood favor, is just really boring to interact with -
I think it's something that didn't really take away chase potential in 2v8, and I feel it's use in 1v4 wouldnt be so problematic with all the anti loop and hitting through pallets we have atm. and m1 killers have plenty anti pallet perks too, maybe it'd force people away from the current gen slowdown stacking more.
If anything it might give survivors the fighting chance they need for the likes of solo queue, like someone throwing shack down really early etc. -
Honestly the game is in such a state right now, I'm not surprised this is more the case, the casual experience is awful. Anyone who thinks it's not is part of the problem, it's so easy to snowball and mistakes can cost an entire match, and it's match after match after match. I've been taking a break but been hopeful for these QoL changes, it's the reliance on perks to fix the games core issues.
Let's not forget how no camping change will ever fix how easy it is for the S Tier dash killers to return to the hook and tunnel, if they choose to. This is one of the main things that need looked at, and I'm tired of killer mains anonymous here making it sound like it isn't. -
I'd love more changes to the item gameplay to make it more rewarding to go through chests and add more to that survival horror gameplay
I personally think Plunderers should grant the aura reading to the whole team for dropped/found items -
this has been needed since forever I feel like