Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012834#Comment_4012834
But quite unfair to the majority of Killers.
So S tier killers shouldn't exist? Because 3 of them were released in the last year and the other 2 haven't been fixed despite ruling the game for far longer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012829#Comment_4012829
There's a big difference between, "Hey, we added more fillers" to "Hey, we screwed up tile generation and now tiles chain like its Old Cowshed"
Old Cowshed sounds FAIR vs krasue, ghoul, drac, blight, and nurse
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012802#Comment_4012802
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4FU0ROWU95IK/1000000070.png
Crazy window into Shack.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PL56I6XQX05Z/1000000071.png
Good rock pallet into Shack.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/14WEEEQH9MZB/1000000072.png
Jungle gym into Prenn tile into jungle gym
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NAFP4SKZFG5F/1000000073.png
Pallet into pallet into jungle gym.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PKY1RBS6SRT5/1000000074.png
Different Yamoaka. Pallet into Shack into jungle gym, i think.
Just going to add that killers aren't exactly in the same state as 2018 either. The majority of the roster laughs at a filler pallet that can't be chained into anything else nearby. Not to mention a plethora of tracking and regression perks that add up to much stronger builds than 2018. And all the survivor perks that were meta in 2018 nerfed.
If all i can do is play 50/50 at a filler pallet and pray to hit validation for a stun that doesnt also injure me, what skill expression do survivors have?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012802#Comment_4012802
Not much outplay at double pallets, just gotta break it. Now repeat that for the whole map.
It isnt affecting me because I've been mostly playing Krasue and because even when I haven't been playing her, I am perfectly capable of begrudgingly dealing with it.
Not everyone has had the....luxury of playing in 2018 DBD. I thought we were past defending this sort of stuff.
Im just curious what you propose as buffs for survivor? As it stands the only changes that weren't protested have been ways to abandon matches sooner after losing. We couldn't get anti-slug/tunnel after 10 years and we can't have more map resources after years of empty deadzones. We also can't nerf overpowered S tier killers.
Is it just the implementation of the changes? Because survivor is not in a good place and I was under the impression you broadly agreed that killer is too easy.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012794#Comment_4012794
Hasn't impacted me, besides frustration. However, I don't think there's many people left from when there were double pallets or jungle gym into Shack, so newer players probably don't know how to deal with it. They shouldn't have to deal with it, because we all agreed that long-wall into Shack was dumb and that double pallets were dumb. Well, everyone except Sluzzy.
They'd be getting the same result. I'm still gonna win lol.
As for in general, literally just remove that part of the update. Take it back to how it was before. This didn't even fix deadzones, it just added more pallets to every map except the one's that needed it. Haddonfield is still ass and Coldwind still spawns huge deadzones in the corn.
if they can't make it so that pallet generation as a whole isn't affected, then don't push it to Live.
If they actually revert the whole changes, fine. No harm no foul. I dont think the extra pallets are as big a deal as youre making them though. You're admitting its not effecting you winning matches too. Winning chases because 1 pallet spawned in the circus carnival isnt exciting as killer. I'd rather have to actually outplay a tile instead of break pallet, get free hit because its a mile to the next one.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012776#Comment_4012776
I'm sure it's part of the reason. I was trying to play Wraith, and it was…difficult.
With so many pallets, it is difficult to play strategically as a Killer who cares about pallets.
Now your Ghoul's Krasue's Nurse's and Blight's probably don't care at all, but everyone else does.
You frequently cite your own kill rate at 80-90%. Has this change affected that? If so, to what degree?
If not, how do you propose survivors are supposed to handle matches vs you with fewer pallets, nerfed main buildings, weaker gym tiles, and shrunken maps?
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Lol every killer reply still completely ignoring the update parts that were buffs for them. So we're keeping the shrunken maps with nerfed main buildings AND taking all the pallets away? Feels balanced.
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And they all conveniently forget to mention the main building nerfs, maps shrunk, and jungle gym tiles replaced with new trash loops. All changes to help killers but the only thing that is ever mentioned is the few extra rock loops. Who wants to bet they remove the extra pallets and keep all the other map nerfs? Another QoL for killers only!
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Ive only noticed strong fillers on macmillan and crotus, but those maps also had the new trash replacement for jungle gym tiles and had several main buildings weakened as well as tiles straight up removed. Meanwhile, maps like coldwind and borgo i barely notice any difference.
If theyre reverting the pallet changes they damn well better revert all the killer favored parts too. I swear if we get another QoL update where only the killer part stays im done.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012538#Comment_4012538
And now he got so many cooldowns so he feels slow as hell and there is no longer the threat of being downed fast when he has his power which is sad, compare to oni who has faster instadown attack and dash mobility attack that is better than blights or billys but its limited by time.
Oni with no turn restriction is completely busted in chase. The exploit should have been fixed and his power buffed in other ways. Making an instadown impossible to dodge feels awful. That said, at LEAST Oni doesn't also have basekit on demand stealth to go with his instadown.
How do you want them to buff Myers without making him Billy at pallets but with zero mechanical skill?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012480#Comment_4012480
If you think mayers will be overpowered when he can get into evil incarnate mode fast then you like more blights and ghouls for sure, he was strong only because of two specific addons which were tombstones and they could give him kills in situations about s-tier killers could dream of that was his strongest version we ever had and I dont think they will buff him enough so this reworked version can get stronger than tomstone mayers.
Currently his evil incarnate mode has more cooldowns and debuffs than onis blood furry which is mad but nothing wrong when bhvr is balancing things same as in 2017 something is made weaker then it should be (reworked mayers) for no reason and other things are busted beyond understanding (krasue).
I mean thanks for tacitly admitting that you know blight and ghoul are busted as hell. But that's a blight and ghoul problem. Myers was pretty normal as far as the rest of the roster goes. You just had to be smart about the angles you approach tiles from to catch survivors off guard. You probably wouldn't go on 1k winstreaks but no killer should be able to do that. He could have gotten some buffs in exchange for reworking tombstone and infinite T3 but tbh i kind of liked going against tombstone. One of the few ways the game still felt like an actual horror game.
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Hopefully they don't remove his counterplay in chase since he now has on demand stealth plus on demand instadown. Not really interested in another brainless overpowered killer. Would prefer they revert to his old power. the old stalking fit his character better than this.
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We're still completely ignoring the other changes to maps in this update huh. Like all the main building tiles that got nerfed, maps shrunk (again), and new trash tiles where jungle gyms used to spawn? A few more filler pallets that usually end up in a hit for the killer anyways aren't worth the other changes.
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Seriously. Just had a killer type in end game chat "survivors when killer can checkspot too". like OK THEN give me a sword and make me the same speed as you then as long as we're taking the asymmetry out of the asymmetrical game.
There is no reason she should have 3rd person to begin with.
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BHVR: "You took longer than 40 seconds to go down while being tunneled? That's no endurance for you buddy. Get back on that hook and think about what you've done. Oh and dont even think about trying to give up or DC, we've got systems in place watching so you best behave. What? Anti-tunnel update? What's that?"
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@Pulsar said:
Truly is a wonder why BHVR cannot just admit they messed up and revert something.
Yup
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010956#Comment_4010956
Oh, I did suggest changes, you just apparently can’t read past anything that doesn’t fit your narrative. Funny how people always bring up the strongest Nurse players alive, but then turn around and cry about average solo queue survivors. Like, pick a lane. Are we balancing around the top 0.1% or the average player actually queuing up every night? Because right now, you’re trying to have it both ways.
You keep dismissing anything that doesn’t hand you a personal advantage, which makes it pretty clear this isn’t a discussion it’s just you venting and pretending it’s game design. You repeat the same talking points like they’re gospel while ignoring context, nuance, or, you know… the idea that balance doesn’t mean “delete what I lose to.”
And I love how the second anyone disagrees, the downvotes start pouring in like that somehow proves a point. That’s the entire problem with these forums no one wants to engage, they just circlejerk themselves into thinking they’re objectively right. Though I guess that's how its always been, you can't really expect anything meaningful from people who always want things their way and never consider other players.
You talk about “healthy gameplay” like you’re the prophet of balance, but the second someone mentions keeping a killer’s identity intact, you melt down. Maybe instead of suggesting changes that completely kill a killer you could think about how to adjust things so the killer isn’t gutted beyond recognition. But no easier to hit delete and pat yourself on the back for saving the game.
So yeah, go ahead, Mr. God of Balancing. Maybe after you’re done fixing the game by erasing every killer you personally dislike, we can all enjoy your utopian 4v1 where every killer is just an M1 with a red stain. Sounds thrilling.
There's no way to fix her power without a rework. A rework fixes both problems with her.
- New players trying to learn her get absolutely bullied.
- Once you learn her muscle memory you will dumpster survivors almost every match.
Oh well. I wouldn't expect mere mortals to understand how ignoring the entirety of a game's mechanics is unhealthy design.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010950#Comment_4010950
That’s the issue right there, you’re equating “strong” with “broken” and “reworking” with “deleting.” You’re not talking about balancing anymore. You are talking about erasing a killer because she doesn’t fit your idea of fair.
You claim she “warps gameplay,” but that logic falls apart when you realize every high skill killer or perk in this game has warped the meta at one point and the solution has never been to gut their identity, it’s been to refine the systems around them. Map layouts, Perk interaction changes, and add on interactions can all be tuned without nuking the killer’s entire design. The devs have done it before with Nurse herself, fatigue changes, addons being changed, adjustments to her basekit. She has already been brought in line multiple times. The problem isn’t her power existing, she isn't the same Nurse that was there when infinites were in the game.
Saying she “ignores base game mechanics” just shows a surface level understanding of how she actually plays. Her entire loop revolves around precision and prediction, two blinks, strict cooldowns, and the constant risk of overshooting or missing entirely. That is her skill expression. A smart balance change would be adjusting how aura reading interacts with her, not gutting her core mechanics.
And the whole “she takes a weekend to learn” argument is laughable. Nurse is one of the most consistency dependent killers in the game. If you don’t play her regularly and understand her blink logic, know where to go on maps, and mechanical timing, you fall apart fast vs actually good players who don't just face Nurse like she is a regular m1. That’s why most players default to the other S tiers they are easier, safer, and far less punishing. Acting like anyone can pick her up and dominate just exposes how shallow your take is.
If she is supposedly a brain dead noob stomper who “wipes the floor” every match, then why doesn’t everyone use her? Why does she underperform in average hands and only excel with experience? Because your argument doesn’t add up. It’s biased, lazy, and built on frustration that this killer isn't killed.
You don’t fix imbalance by sanding down everything with edges until it’s all equally bland. You fix it by respecting what makes each killer unique and adjusting to support variety, stop trying to make every killer the same watered down killer just because your ego demands it. I’m honestly so glad you’re not in charge of balancing, because if your version of “healthy gameplay” is removing anything that challenges people to improve, this game would be an empty shell of itself in a month.
Not "strong", strongest. By nearly any reasonable tier list. For her entire existence. I notice you didn't suggest any changes to her at all. The 1k+ winstreaks must continue because that's the "healthy gameplay" we want here at DBD. Don't worry survivors, if you keep improving, you might just be the 1 in 1000 team that beats me at a pvp game because I chose the most overpowered killer! Now watch my 1001st steamroll and don't complain or you're entitled. 🤣
Oh and all that prediction and LOS gameplay goes out the window as soon as the killer runs any of the multitude of increasingly strong aura perks.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010945#Comment_4010945
You’re kind of missing the point here. Comparing a killer with a full unique mechanic set to a single perk is a reach. Dead Hard being reworked was about toning down a singular overperforming perk that warped gameplay across every match it appeared in. Reworking a killer like the one we’re talking about is not remotely the same thing. That’s like saying “well we nerfed Sprint Burst once, so reworking a whole killer’s design is fine.” It’s not comparable.
Freddy and Myers were both changed under the exact logic you’re pushing and both times, it killed off the dedicated players that made those killers interesting to begin with. The result wasn’t “better balance,” it was just less identity and more homogenized gameplay. That’s the point I’m making. When you take away what made a killer theirs, the people who actually enjoy and play them the most stop showing up. Just because Nurse is strong doesn't mean she deserves the same treatment because what you are saying will just take away what makes Nurse.. Nurse, but I guess thats acceptable and her playerbase doesn't deserve to keep their killers identity in your eyes.
And yeah, I brought up Huntress because she’s the perfect example of how bad this kind of thinking gets when applied broadly. You start “tweaking” the mechanics of killers that aren’t broken, just misunderstood, and suddenly you erase skill expression and identity for the sake of people who don’t like facing them. Nurse can be tweaked without taking everything that gives her identity away from her, but you don't really care about that do you.
And pretending that gutting a killer’s core mechanics is “just balance” doesn’t make it any less of a lazy fix that alienates the people who actually care about playing them. You don't have to be disingenuous just because you dislike having Nurse in the game.
Yes I want to take away a singular overperforming killer power that warps gameplay across every match it appears in. She, unlike freddy, myers, huntress, or any other low-mid tier killer you're going to strawman, ignores every base game mechanic survivors have to express skill and extend chases. She hamstrings map and perk design for the entire game. If you have a better idea of how to balance her, I'll wait. But no I won't be crying over the poor Nurse players that can't queue up to wipe the floor with their opponents in 90%+ of their matches because they spent a weekend learning her muscle memory.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010935#Comment_4010935
Yeah, exactly this type of players I'm talking about. "Few additional UI elements", lol.
No unhook grabs was one of the strongest soloq buffs and biggest nerf to "brainless camp", but everyone forgot about this in 2 weeks and continued to act as if nothing had happened, like you now. Not only you always needed 2 survivors to unhook with camping killer, but there was a big chance just give to killer 2 free hooks while you tries to unhook and pretty much end game here. But yep, pretty sure you will say something like "oh just minor buff, barely noticeable, not a big deal".
+10 seconds on hook is also pretty big buff. I wanted to explain why, but then reread your answer, where HUD itself was ignored as strongest soloq buff… why I even waste time on this? You are exactly this player, who will always blame everything in this game, except yourself. They can add AK-47 and you'll still blame the game and killers for shooting yourself in the foot with it.So I asked for SOLO QUEUE buffs and you brought up a few overall survivor buffs. None of these were specific to help solo queue. They were to slightly combat the (yes, brainless) "strategy" of staring at a hooked survivor and winning.
+10 seconds on hook was added after gens were increased multiple times, once again, to help with killers camping first hook. Even today you can camp someone out with Bubba, down and camp a second with noed, and guarantee at least a 2k every match.
As for an AK-47, Trickster is already in the game…
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010263#Comment_4010263
So the plan is to just Freddy her? Turn away everyone who actually put in the time to learn her? Brilliant idea on how to completely kill a killer. I’m sure all the old Freddy and Myers mains can tell you how amazing that feels. The only people who’d celebrate those changes are the ones who already hate her, so hey, good for you, I guess?
Whenever people throw out ideas like this, it never feels like they stop to think that these killers actually have a playerbase. You make sweeping changes like that, and you’re basically telling everyone who learned her that their time doesn’t matter. We’ve seen this story before, reworks that completely miss the mark and just drive away the people who cared. This isn’t a fix, it’s a “let’s delete this killer so we don’t have to deal with her” kind of move.
It’s like overhauling Huntress mechanics out of nowhere. I’m sure all the Huntress mains would be thrilled that everything they practiced and mastered just got flipped upside down. Totally wouldn’t make them feel like the killer they loved is gone or anything.
Old dead hard had a playerbase too. Guess we can't rework extremely overpowered things for the betterment of the game? Freddy and Myers had niche dedicated playerbases and neither killer was breaking the game like Nurse. Your comparison doesn't make sense.
I prefer old Myers too and Freddy has always been boring since his first rework so I'd be happy to try something different but I doubt they'll give him another big change.
The only one bringing up Huntress overhauls is you. Maybe once you're done arguing with yourself we can talk about game balance or something…
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010895#Comment_4010895
i mean, yeah, but at this point there will be no excuses left.
Yeah, I kinda want it more for that reason. Because soloq got so many giant buff that I can't read all these "poor soloq" doomposts anymore. And some form of communication literally the last argument in the question "what soloq is missing?". And I wonder if these people will claim that soloq is "unplayable" on its own even after that or will they finally accept that soloq is completely fine and players and MMR are problems?
"So many giant buff" umm like what? A few additional UI elements and then nothing else ever? Functional matchmaking? Anything to counter brainless tunnel/camp? Seeing teammates perks in the lobby so we can synergize loadouts? Nope, nope, and nope.
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He only feels weak because every other killer in the last year was an overpowered S tier pay to win character.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010639#Comment_4010639
If killer haste isn't skill expression, then how is Clown haste stacking with perks considered skill expression?
Neither of them are skill expression. His purple bottles are. Yellow bottles with instant activation are not. I don't know how much clearer I can make this.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010518#Comment_4010518
It helps Clown out because he really needed the buffs he used to have, but the buffs were way too much when the extra haste was stacked with perks.
And haste stacking isn't meaningful "skill expression". Because honestly, if "skill expression" meant that something was automatically good, then we should revert the Nurse nerfs, since her blinks are way more "skill expression" than a killer that barely need to aim anything with any sort of precision, because his M2 is an AoE.
Skill expression applies to both sides. For instance, with Nurse, the killer has skill expression but the survivors have none. With Clown, neither side had skill expression from "lol throw bottle go fast".
I love that you think 12% perma-haste is fine for Clown but 3% MFT was OP. The problem was absolutely how easy it was to activate, not stacking. In that way it actually was similar to the MFT complaints.
I never claimed haste stacking was skill expression. I said his yellow bottle spam state lacked any skill expression, which is true. Clown's meaningful skill expression comes from correctly predicting survivor pathing and placing his purple bottles to outplay tiles. This is good, but is already very strong, which is why I suggested adding something to his kit other than even more oppressive chase tools.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010503#Comment_4010503
How did Wesker get significantly nerfed?
The only thing I can think of is the infection reset on hook and a slight nerf to the hinder. And those were both only brought about by Weskers hard tunneling someone off hook. Wesker's power is a great example of a strong, balanced killer with fair and fun counterplay. It's a shame there are so few such examples…
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010509#Comment_4010509
I've already said BHVR needs to just re-enable the haste stacking patch, that made it so haste from perks can't stack with anything.
Because the problem with Clown wasn't someone equipping 4 aura reading perks or 4 slowdown perks. The problem with Clown is when they stacked a bunch of haste perks, and that stacked with his yellow bottle haste. Most of the complaint videos were showing Clown players that were stacking haste perks.
So you'd effectively nerf him by removing haste stacking and return him to a state with absolutely zero skill expression whatsoever that his mains didn't ask for and actively campaigned against. How does that help Clown exactly? The yellow bottles are a lazy gimmick that should never have been added to begin with. He deserved a better rework than them.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010474#Comment_4010474
That’s not allowed to happen though. Look at what happened with Clown. He was actually decent for a while, and it got so many complaints that he’s back to being useless.
Like, people can say “oh, let’s buff the weaker killers”, but it’s not actually allowed to happen in any meaningful way because it just gets complaints.
The Clown disaster was the last time survivor and killer mains agreed on something. Don't try and frame it like it was about him being too strong. Imo it didn't even move him upward in tier very much because the purple bottles got nerfed in that update. Maybe it was a slight buff but in an extremely unhealthy way at the cost of nuking whatever skill expression he had in favor of the most brainless playstyle imaginable.
I'm not sure how to buff him without making his chase even more oppressive. I think it would be interesting to have gradual lasting debilitating effects from the tonic exposure. Things like slower exhaustion recovery, visual/audio hallucinations, blur/double vision, etc., similar to doctor. The problem is BHVR boxes themselves into a corner where any time they try to add an immersive effect on screen, someone somewhere complains they got a headache, and the devs bend over backwards until the effect might as well not exist. So we're left with speed buffs, teleport, ranged attacks, and dashes. I don't think any of those really fits Clown's design.
How would you buff him (without permanent 20% haste for doing nothing)?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010466#Comment_4010466
By your logic we should never nerf anything
No, it's just we shouldn't necessarily nerf something just because it's one of the best. That leads to a weird, inverse power-creep where everything just gets worse instead of better.
There are absolutely reasons why S tier things should be nerfed, but it goes beyond the fact that they are S tier. If the power difference is objectively too high, like in the cases of the examples you mentioned, then yes, adjustments are necessary. However, just because something is in the top range of effectiveness doesn't mean it immediately warrants a nerf, you need a more nuanced approach than that.
You left out the part where I said killers below A-B tiers should be brought up as well. My point is the variability between killer power levels is too much to balance the rest of the game around fairly. Since survivors and maps don't change much other than the occasional pallet RNG screwing one side (you could possibly make an argument about mmr here too), the killer power levels at the extremes need to be brought in line with the bulk of the roster.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010212#Comment_4010212
Tier lists are, by definition, relative. There will always be an S tier.
If you nerf all the S tiers, the current A tiers will become the S tiers, and people will demand nerfs for them next.
It doesn't matter how your order it. Having 15-20% of the roster far outperforming the rest will never result in a balanced game when maps and survivor strength are held relatively constant. By your logic we should never nerf anything. Alch Ring is S tier but meh we shouldn't nerf it. Insta gen BNPs are S tier but we can't nerf them because then people will complain about flashlights. Absurd.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010421#Comment_4010421
I dont know man, maybe because all you ever need now is 1x surv running windows dropping all the pallets while the rest will be doing gens.
Dont get me wrong its still winnable as a killer but there is no counter to this anymore since you could generally push them to the deadzone and get hooked or they play back into you and get hooked.
While now even if its as you say useless pallets they still waste the match time and no perk exists or system in place for survivors dropping pallets instead of doing their gen objective.
I'd be fine with nerfing Windows but making maps empty parking lots hasn't been good for engagement on either side. I don't feel like I outplayed anyone as killer because the map put a gen next to 2 trees and a rock.
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Unfortunately, blocking players doesnt prevent you being matched with them again.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010234#Comment_4010234
Considering the devs balance for a 60% kill rate, i'd say that yeah, being 8% above their target is pretty broken.
I love the baseline assumption that the holy 60% kill rate is "balance" and cannot be questioned. This from the side notorious for calling their opponents "entitled".
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010263#Comment_4010263
So you gonna nerf survivors then to make the other 25+ killers viable too? What nerfs would you do?
Winning vs slightly closer to half of your opponents rather than well above doesn't make them unviable. In fact some might even say they're more balanced.
What I've said for years is A-B tier is the standard for good and balanced killer design. That's Wesker, Huntress, Artist, etc. Strong killers with a good amount of skill expression and counterplay for both sides. So knock down the S tiers to A-B, buff any that are below A-B (they've been doing that slowly already though some have had mixed results like Myers). Then perks and maps can actually be adjusted in a fair way. Yes, this would mean no more 2k winstreaks for Nurse and Blight mains, but killers don't feel entitled to winning every match so surely they will understand.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010248#Comment_4010248
I know your position, already had t his discussion with you multiple times.
Thus then nurse is fine and so is blight and probably ghoul (i don't know if they have officially released stats around ghoul) because in the hands of average skill players they perform averagely.
This is so tiring. Nurse greatly underperforms at low level and overperforms at high level. Good news! We can actually rework her in a way that fixes BOTH.
- Rework her power to be less mechanically/muscle memory dependent. Now new players can play her without getting embarrassed for 4-6 hours straight.
- As part of her rework she will now have to actually obey regular game mechanics like every other killer. Now she doesn't vastly overperform at high level by ignoring every defense survivors have.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010234#Comment_4010234
Based literally on your screenshot. 40% is goal = 100% and 48% is 120%.
Losing more than half your matches = absurdly broken, got it.
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@fussy said:
I mean, you can do whatever you want with S-tier killers, but surely you shouldn't expect that SWF will be untouched after that.
High MMR survivors already escape 20% more than they should and S-tier literally the only answer to how absurdly broken survivors are on high level.Based on what? 48% escape rate from 4 man high mmr teams = "absurdly broken"?
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The same logic applies to every S tier killer. A-B tiers should be the goal for killer balance and maps/perks could then be fairly balanced for both sides
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@Sava18 said:
As a former killer main I find it baffling that bhvr has more and more moved to a less safe higher pallet density mindset. I don't want to be playing trash fillers all the time as either side. LT's, Long walls and short walls are all great. But they keep adding in at best weird non filler tiles that are just out right weaker and m1 killer outplayable guaranteed along with a bunch of pallets so weak it's not even a 50/50 at best anymore.
Of course something like old cold wind fillers that might as well have been god pallets was too strong, but they are pulling away from the middle ground and going weaker. Unknowns release map is a prime example.
TWD map, AKA copy paste the same rock pallet 25 times and call it a new map, is the epitome of this trend.
Same goes for the constant crying that we need to make every map the size of a small strip mall parking lot. I know its shocking but killers don't actually need to be able to patrol all 7 gens at all times. Adding one more car pallet to Haddonfield doesn't fix the fact its 30% too small and notoriously spawned horrible 3-4 gen setups BEFORE THEY SHRANK IT.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I enjoyed memeing with wolf only Dracula but I guess that was too OP
I play pinhead but I'm apparently the most despised person in dbd.
they nerfed his pounce charge by 1/20 of a second, i think you'll be ok
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I thought they fixed the yellow bottles in the update. What's the issue?
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Dont forget "we increased pallets but actually just shrank several maps again and nuked multiple main building tiles but here's a few crap filler pallets where you'll die anyways lol"
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008099#Comment_4008099
You have to identify the right gens to work on… and then you spend 90 seconds standing still, holding M1 and making no meaningful decisions.
You have to identify and break a 3-gen… and then you spend 90 seconds standing still, holding M1 and making no meaningful decisions.
You have to rotate correctly… and then you spend 90 seconds standing still, holding M1 and making no meaningful decisions.
If you genuinely find that difficult or stressful, maybe video games just aren't for you.
agreed, we should go back to 60 second gens
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008175#Comment_4008175
There can easily be changes that encourage this kind of defensive perk design rather than obnoxious endurance. Shifting to encouraging chasing the unhooker without penalising the killer and without having the unhooked interfere with no consequences because they have to slip away to get value from defensive perks would be a good and healthy change.
It should also encourage survivors to learn how to unhook properly
Guaranteeing a free hook trade in every save situation unless the entire team leaves gens to bodyblock would just encourage proxy camping even harder.
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@Shinkiro said:
I think moving away from second chance endurance perks that get weaponized is a good thing healthy change tbh. They are never used for their intended purpose, if anything they are pro tunnelling perks because being used to take hits incentivises hooking you again.
Perks that let you stealthily slip away while the unhooker takes chase are far more healthy for the game. Killers won't waste time if they dont know where you are and go after who they can see. Of course nothing is going to help you if bad survivors decide to play poorly and unhook you right in a killers face anyway.
Good thing there aren't 20 aura perks that have been steadily powercrept for years on top of shrinking maps, removing fog & vegetation, and nuking fog vials & stealth perks. Yea just let me stealth away from the hook while injured in this environment.
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@defaultuk said:
stop making auto aim functions on killers, you're taking the fun away from actual skill based play and counterplay its essentially the same as adding an auto dodge function for survivor and I'm sure no1 would want that. the auto aim on ghoul feels bad on both sides when you get a hit behind a wall,the auto aim on the new killer is also the same , on an indoor map good luck dodging forever without getting infected ..it's just bad lets not go down the route of killing actual skill based plays
I demand auto dead hard for survivors. call it an "accessibility issue" or something.
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We got a bunch of garbage filler pallets where most killers will get a free hit, and in exchange they stealth nerfed nearly every decent main building tile in the game. Its just comical how much they hate survivors at this point.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006469#Comment_4006469
Hatch doesnt allow 3 survivors to escape. Survivors win when 3 survivors escape.
Killers with 0 hooks and 5 gens gone can still basically guarantee 1 kill. Just like survivors can still basically guarantee 1 escape.
Why should the killer be able to get a 4k, but survivors not 3 people out?
You dont win if you get hatch. You still overall lose. 3 survivors are dead. The real win is still escaping through gate.
And no, SWF teams dont boost their mmr through comms and playing part of coordinated teams the way killers do. I am not going to explain how both sides gain MMR, because survivor MMR gain isnt as consistent. Escaperates are below 50%. Meaning that on average, if you gain 100 MMR by having a 4 man escape, and then lose 50 MMR because you get tunnelled out first, despite being on comms, you still only gain 50 MMR per match. While as a killer, if you slug for a 4k every match, you could go from 80 MMR gain to 100 MMR gain. That first kill out, even if by sheer luck, increases your chances on a 3k significantly, which can then lead you to slugging for a 4k.
If people arent on comms, 3k's arent going to be uncommon. With the average killrate being very close to a 3k, that means on average, killers gain about 80 MMR in that example. And with a 50% escaperate, you would only gain 50MMR per match. Ofcourse those numbers are smaller and more nuanced than that, but its much easier to "abuse" a tunnel than it is to "abuse" 4 man on comms. Those 4 people actually need to be good to achieve that and combined be better than the killer. While tunnelling when facing any non 4 man swf on comms only requires you to find a survivor who isnt that good to snowball into a 3k.Killers always have the option of completely bypassing the chance at hatch. I'd say less than half of matches where im one of the last two result in a hatch opportunity. Its more than likely going to be slug for the 4k and draw the match out as long as possible just to rub it in a little more and win harder.
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Fix this insanely broken FOV too
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Stretched res gamer's dream
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An even less balanced version of Ghoul wasn't on my wish list for this chapter but here we are.