Rogue11
Rogue11
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- Rogue11
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035640#Comment_4035640
i have already said other games have been way better than dbd. TCM and f13 were both better than dbd. the failure of both games had nothing to do with stealth. f13 had legal issues, prior to that the game was doing pretty well. TCM failed due to fumbling the dlc, the cosmetics and generally offered no content. part of dbd's success is due to being the only option available regarding asymmetric games, its this or nothing. its not due to the fact its not stealth based at all.
I went into TCM hoping for more of a real "horror experience" and getting away from the DBD competitive mindset. To my surprise and immense disappointment, from the first match I played, all my teammates were immediately making as much noise as possible, looping killers with door slams and the character that had the shoulder charge skill, etc. It was LESS of a stealth game than DBD from the start. Then the DBD comp mindset really set in for a game that wasn't remotely designed to accommodate it.
You still haven't given an example of the game you want that wasn't objectively a failure. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that to win an argument. I don't know how to make it work in an engaging way that would retain a viable playerbase. I would personally love something like a PVP version of Until Dawn, where its more of a horror simulation with players making critical decisions trying to outsmart each other. Again, idk how to make it workable in a way that would actually be fun.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035519#Comment_4035519
the fact that people have 11k hours with the "tunneling issue" and wouldnt have 11k hours with stealth says a lot lol. thats why i have no sympathy for the general player that complains about the state of the game…. people are putting the hours in so it cant be that bad can it?
How do you make an asymmetrical pvp stealth game interactive and compelling for both sides? If you can answer that question, you could make a better horror game than DBD. Other games like Hide Or Die tried and failed.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034214#Comment_4034214
lights out was actually liked by many people. the problem was that the game and maps are designed around the current state of loops. a big issue was ghostface being able to stalk in the open while survivors couldnt see anything and they would get downed instantly. But still a lot of people actually liked lights out mode, more so than how many people liked the halloween event.
It was so popular the events only lasted a week, were never extended, and havent been brought back in over a year.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032168#Comment_4032168
But they *were* overtuned heavily in the Survivor's favor. The amount of god setups spawning was not okay, and it needed to be changed.
The issue was BHVR, like with 60% of their nerfs, went way too far in the other direction. The solution was not to right click > delete every asset near one side of every filler pallet in the game.
Also I do find it quite nefarious that you're accusing people of "brigading" just because the polls did not match your opinion. I've been seeing a concerning uptick in that kind of rhetoric lately (the majority disagrees with me = they're botting/alting/brigading, we're the "silent majority" etc etc), and I don't think it serves for any kind of productive discussion, it's very conspiratorial.
These polls were not the sole arbiter of feedback, either, there are many avenues BHVR pull from.
Polls taken on an obscure part of the forum with 300 votes aren't representative of a playerbase of millions. Which part of the playerbase would be more motivated to find said obscure part of an already little-used forum and vote the same way on every poll? No, no, sorry I forgot I can't use the slightest amount of reasoning when considering flawed polls and misrepresentative samples. Number higher. Nerf survivors again. Yes, yes ,you're right of course.
The queue times and player counts will speak louder than killer streamers demanding every possible survivor QoL update be immediately reverted. Hopefully people vote with their playtime.
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032203#Comment_4032203
Why are you fighting me then. WE AGREE. I want nurse, blight and ghoul nerfed, I want A-Tier to be the standard. As I said, I haven't seen anyone asking for the pallets to receive the skull merchant treatment, they all wanted reverts, just like me. I agree on the 2k winstreak thing too. All this while being a killer main. I didn't have any say in this, if I did elusive would still exist, 1v4 would have the ability to alternate automatically between killer and survivor. And trust me, most killers would agree that killing the need to mindgame wasn't on their wishlist.
BHVR is the one dumbing down this game not killer mains, not even the hedge cases who would advocate for something like this had anything to do with this. BHVR made the call, they are the ones to call out.
I'm not fighting your opinions about game balance. I agree A-tier (Wesker) should be the standard for killer strength and maps should be balanced around that power level.
I disagreed with what the majority of overall killer feedback was regarding pallet density. I haven't played the update yet (I won't, I'm done with BHVR jingling keys for nerfs to camp/tunnel/slug only to pull the rug every time and nerf survivors again) but I'm going to hazard a guess that all the nerfs to map size, main buildings, and jungle gym tiles weren't touched in this update? I could barely get killer mains to even acknowledge these nerfs existed and accompanied the pallet changes. Most of the feedback I saw was wildly exaggerated when I played Demo (I think he's underrated but surely not S-tier) on the previous update and still did just fine with the extra pallets. Yet every content creator had conveyor belts of videos with titles like…
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032192#Comment_4032192
because like the nerfed current version BHVR went overkill and added so many pallets that M1 killers suffered heavily while S-Tiers didn't care. Like I said, I wanted it reverted to the same level as the FNAF chapter in all maps except Haddonfield and Borgo. Did you even read my original post?
That would be better than this but doesn't address the accelerating powercreep of new S tier killers along with Blight. If maps have to be balanced around perkless Trapper we need to have a serious discussion about nerfing the higher tier killers. 2k winstreaks shouldn't be possible for either side in a pvp game.
I read your post and wasn't asserting what your opinion was, but what massively overexaggerated feedback the devs received.
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Why bother using a styptic right now? Like just save them until they either have a useable effect again or get refunded into bp. They're hot garbage right now.
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@Deadman7600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032168#Comment_4032168
saying something favours survivors isn't the same as 'I want every pallet to be chucky height' and you know it. You have to be the most obvious bait I've ever seen.
Really? Because most of what I saw the last month was how the poor perkless Trapper players were getting bullied on account of maps finally not being barren resource wastelands.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032162#Comment_4032162
I'd somewhat agree it could be whataboutism, but I'm pretty sure the point was that extremes like the gen rush record are the other side of the kill streak coin. Both prove that the game's formula can be broken to a degree that your opponent's agency in the outcome is minimal at best. If you want to make that argument for escape speeds, you have to also accept it for kill streaks.
Wouldn't an apple to apple comparison be something like looking at the fastest 4k time (which is almost assuredly faster than the fastest escape time.
Or compare escape streaks to kill streaks (again massively favors killers)
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@grumpelfox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032168#Comment_4032168
the survivor golden children that the devs love so much will never be able to understand anything that doesnt benefit them.
ikr we golden children got so much this year. 3 new S tier killers in the last year, a garbage new survivor item that got double nerfed to uselessness within 2 weeks, styptic dead, all anti-tunnel/camp/slug changes promised all year scrapped. Truly survivors are catered to. 😐️
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Must have been survivor mains brigading every single one of these polls when they asked for feedback? Seems they did exactly what killer players wanted. Par for the course for this year.
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Finally the maps killer players asked for. The culmination of the "year of health". Ironically might be the year my health improves from dropping this disaster of a game.
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"Your fun isnt my responsibility....why are survivors quitting?"
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030864#Comment_4030864
Except pallet density doesn't only hurts tunnelling killers, but also every other killers that play nicely.
So no, it has to go.
And what are we going to do about the tunneling killers? Oh right, nothing at all.
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Right? If we're supposed to "loop correctly" as the only defense against tunneling we're going to need more than the barren deadzone maps that we had before this update.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030658#Comment_4030658
They did, actually. Well, the maps that were changed anyway. Go check the link I posted again.
And every one of them was full of killer players demanding pallets be removed, smaller maps, nerfed main buildings, etc. Killers dont want to actually outplay survivors at loops. They want to break one pallet (if its even one worth breaking) and get a free hit because the next tile is miles away. They then pretend its a "skill issue" when survivors get tunneled on maps like this.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030646#Comment_4030646
I seem to recall plenty of 'killer mains' complain about Haddonfield lack of pallets, as well as praising BHVR for giving it a well-deserved buff.
Heck, go look at the polls of the pallet changes if you want to see what the overall feedback of what both killer and survivor mains thought of the pallet changes here:https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/categories/pallet-density-feedback
Now do literally every other map
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@YaBoi0215 said:
Leave it to a survivor main to complain about not having their hand held even more than is already is. The whole mentality just feels like, "If I don't instantly spawn at an open exit gate the beginning of the game with infinite sprint burst and 7 millions pallets to annoy the killer than the game sucks and should be cancelled."
Maybe enjoy some challenge with the game. Learn to run loops properly. Appreciate the skill of good killers that now how to mind game and outplay you around loops. If you can do that then the game will be more enjoyable.Killer players: "just learn to loop!"
Killer players when maps aren't complete barren deadzones and survivors run loops properly: "remove loops!"
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@The_Count said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030188#Comment_4030188
I'm ok with that since there was already two tries to address tunneling and NONE in all the game lifespan to address gen rushing. As long as this is not addressed I hope tunneling never leaves DbD.
Being tunneled makes me become a better surv in a fast pace than a "regular chase".Generator charges increased from 65 to 70
Generator charges increased from 70 to 80
Generator charges increased from 80 to 90
Toolboxes nerfed multiple times
Stacking repair penalty introduced for multiple survivors on the same gen
Stacking repair penalty increased
Great skill check bonus halved
Reduced gen kicking interaction time
Doubled immediate regression from kicking gens
Requirement to repair 5% to stop regressing gens
Prove Thyself nerfed to give a smaller bonus to coop repair
Survivors spawning together to make spreading out on gens early more difficult
"NONE in all the game lifespan to address gen rushing" btw
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I would prefer they fix his enormous overly-generous hitbox. If people want to claim his power is justified by being high skill ceiling, they shouldn't need Oni/Demo's hitbox on a stupid cane swipe.
Billy just needs the curve window nerfed. The extra window removes what made him high risk/reward at loops. The killer can just react to any juke and hit you.
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Yea autoaim plus dashing with the RTS camera is still moronic. Compensate if needed but they can't keep dumbing down chase mechanics like this. It kills the primary skill based pvp element of the game.
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Sounds incredibly boring tbh
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@Colt45m said:
Watch they buff killers then they're like "fooled you we're going to tunnel, camp and slug anyways." No punishments are the only true ways to punish these busted mechanics. I don't trust them.
Believing the "your fun isnt my responsibility" crowd has any interest in not tunneling would be a mistake
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024520#Comment_4024520
Actually no, you're looking at the last kill rate stats they released which are for a different time frame than the current Nightlight stats. You're comparing different time periods.
Stats wise 15k is a very good sample size for most data collections.
That depends on if nightlight stat contributors represent a sample of the average DBD playerbase (they dont). Its like polling 15k people in one city and saying the responses represent the views of the entire country.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024053#Comment_4024053
They weren't crying that they couldn't win, they were upset that their queue times were obnoxiously long. Wasn't there a Twins player who had to wait over an hour and only found a game because his chat stream sniped him or am I remembering wrong?
That was fixed in a different update. I think that was during one of the initial tests not the full launch. They manipulated the "soft cap" to the point matchmaking might as well be random. If you play killer and are honest with yourself you can tell this easily. You might get a good team once every ten matches or so but otherwise its whatever unfortunate solo queue players the game decides to throw into the meat grinder.
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We've reached the point where the map that killers used to bring offerings for to get easy adept achievements is now "too strong" for survivors and needs nerfs.
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I preferred refining the emblem system for matchmaking, but the initial version of MMR actually worked pretty decently. But killer streamers cried they couldn't win 100+ matches in a row while reading chat and eating cheetos, all while demanding survivors be balanced around the strongest potential swf team. So now we have the game balanced as if these killers are going to play a comp swf but matchmaking will ensure they rarely, if ever, play against those teams.
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@BorisDDAA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023659#Comment_4023659
It buffs sprint burst especially which is already extremely strong. I think they just needed to put a stock timer like everyone was saying
What does putting a stock timer mean?
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Killers are handheld by having a weapon to attack survivors while the survivors have none.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
For most my friends it's the release of Ghoul/Krasue being ignored by the devs how destructive they are to the casual experience, as are all of the S-tiers. I'd honestly take nerfs to these killers and blanket buffing killers again over them remotely existing, I hate them, so do my friends.
Fog Vials were a huge disappointment and the cold feet on the anti-tunnel and slug too just before a huge event which has just encouraged toxic playstyles yet again. All the try hards go into the event queue and ruin it for everyone, it sucks.This lines up with why most of my friends have quit or drastically reduced playtime. I take long breaks but come back for rifts/events just to quickly grind the challenges. I spend as little money as possible to avoid rewarding the current direction of game balance. There was a time when I bought every chapter on release day and gifted multiple copies to friends on Steam…
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BHVR reworking any killer
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This is what we get for listening to people who call a decently balanced killer on the PTB vague words like "clunky" until they're released in a beyond busted state. "Clunky" is the deceptive way of saying "this killer isnt as strong as the last broken S tier killer yet, so keep buffing it."
Usually this feedback results in removing all the limitations to a killers power that give room for skill expression and counterplay. Things like charge times, cooldowns, turn rates, etc. These are things that killer players learn to master to work around the limitations while giving survivors room to breath and make distance if they counterplay correctly. Taking all that away gives us the last 3 S tier killers from the past year that are all miserable to play against.
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What do you have against Demo and Xenomorph?
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The biggest reason why killers tunnel is because its been the easiest way to bypass the entire meta strategy of managing the match and guarantee an easy win. The best way to address it is to nerf tunneling until its not the 100% most obvious way to guarantee an easy win.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018977#Comment_4018977
All I can say is I'll be looking forward to Scout getting removed now since they removed 1 of the only barriers to reasons there aren't more complaints about the class. Now you just have a bunch of pallets to deal with with in a game mode that has a cast consisting, for the most part, of m1 killers who lack the answers their counterparts not in the gamemode already have. And if you don't know that, you don't know DBD
Hope you're looking forward to even longer killer queues next 2v8...
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Soo nerf survivors harder and killers won't still just use the strongest powers, builds, and "tactics" (tunnel)? Color me suspicious but I don't find this believable coming from the "your fun isn't my responsibility" crowd.
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Wait till the "pallet density feedback" threads get all the recent map changes reverted while leaving all the main building nerfs, shrunken maps, and weaker jungle gym tiles. Heaven forbid we have any resources to deal with 3 new S tier killers in the last year on top of nurse and blight still ruining matches. Dont worry though im sure they're still "monitoring" Ghoul.
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From some of the comments im gathering survivors are expected to have 1 average strength pallet at any given location and then get hit before being able to find another pallet or window. Every mention of "chaining 2 pallets together" or "this pallet into a window" is code for "bring back garbage filler pallets and mile and a half from each other so I can turn off my brain and still get a hook handed to me". Won't be surprised when all the pallets get reverted but maps being shrunk, main buildings nerfed, and jungle gym tiles replaced with weaker versions stay. Funny how all those killer sided changes didn't get their own individual feedback threads.
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Why are all these polls failing to even mention the changes that favored killers? Main building nerfs, jungle gym tile nerfs, and maps being shrunk were also part of this update but the only thing mentioned is some extra filler pallets?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016739#Comment_4016739
The DC penalties are supposed to be inconvenient. You are supposed to acknowledge the fact that you are ruining games for other people, and you are supposed to actually think and reflect on what you are doing.
So just accept the fact that the penalties have changed. You said you were troubleshooting anyway, so what difference does it make if the game has to be open?
I hope you have/find someone who loves you as much as you love punishing survivor players.
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Did the Dwight bot offer you his toolbox?
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"Slightly killer-biased". The culmination of 10 years of BHVR map design experience. I couldn't even tell which springtrap doors went with which gens…
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Either infection needs to be earned or head mode needs to have actual counterplay. But who am I kidding, they won't even fix the other 2 S tier killers they released in the last year so why would I expect them to start now.
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@ABAEX said:
ok, now those player win out game again.
Krasue be nerfed 2 times but they still can't escape.
Just like they face the Skull merchant now but still can't escape.🤣
two nerfs that didn't touch her ridiculous lack of counterplay in chase. the only meaningful one was the slight slowdown to her tunneling potential. not that it matters much when she still has mobility + no counter in chase
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013563#Comment_4013563
Think of it as nerfing S-tier survivor items.
People seem super fine with asking for S-tier killers to be nerfed, so asking for S-tier survivor items to be nerfed should be ok too.
Sounds good. So if we're nerfing everything down to the level of the worst survivor item, im sure you'll be fine with current skull merchant being the standard for killer balance?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013543#Comment_4013543
Then that needs to be nerfed to, so other items feel more useful. Maybe the self-healing speed can be nerfed.
But whatever it is, the problem are the medkits and tookboxes. Because buffing fog vials won't change the fact that the maps and keys are also underused because they aren't considered as useful as a medkit.
Lmao all survivor items need to be as useless as current fog vials. Balance achieved!
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@Nazzzak said:
I will die on the hill that they were a sneaky item nerf. Useless and clog up the bloodweb so decent items and add ons are harder to find
The updated map and keys were a flop too in the same update. Wow let me sacrifice an item slot instead of using Bond or WoO.
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So we're all on board with nerfing the S tier killers that powercrept old maps so hard we needed this update right? Because 3 of them were released in the last year so someone needs to get through to BHVR to stop doing that and bring them in line with the majority of the roster. Otherwise what you're saying is its perfectly fine that killers get to stomp every match because they choose one of the 5-6 busted overpowered killers. If we "fix" the maps for muh poor M1 Trapper who doesn't use his power, the 1k winstreaks will continue unabated.
Also yet another thread completely ignoring all the changes to maps that were killer sided in this update. Main buildings nerfed. Maps shrunk. Strong jungle gyms replaced with new trash gyms. None of that helped killers? So another update where we revert everything good for survivors and leave everything good for killers? does that sound about right??
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I wish it only applied for an actual 4k. Ive had a lot of end game Sabo plays ruined/overcomplicated to work around the fact that if I leave the killer gets an undeserved mori when the survivor should be able to crawl out the gate.
