Riski
Riski
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@Marik1987 said:
Freddy needs an Addon-Pass ASAP. His addons are mostly trash. I mean, 3x Dream Pallets, 3x 4% Skillcheck-Penalty, Hemmorhage and Blindness. What is this?
And the best part: 3x better hearing when asleep. WOW, AMAZING. Whoever thought about the louder footsteps or Grunts of Pain etc. needs to get fired, if not already happened.
Tbf I'll defend the louder footsteps as useful and the louder gens as interesting but gimicky, although Freddy's issues is all but 4 addons are gimicky (Paint brush, Swinging chain and power recovery) so if it was removed it would be fair. Give him some addons with more consistantly and directly useful effects (aura reading on snares, aura reading on survivors who wake up, mini Fired Up for each asleep survivor as a few suggestions) and he'll be in a much better spot.
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I mean this assumes that a significant amount of tunneling is acidential, it happens but usually when someone tunnels they have an understanding of what they're doing. If anything it helps people who weren't paying attention know who they need to tunnel instead. Most people generally don't care about catering to the other side massively, they may not tunnel at 5 gens to be nice but generally will just do what will make them win which often can be tunneling. This would most likely increase tunneling at the end of the day.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360914#Comment_3360914
It's 0.8 c/s, though, not 1 c/s, so the 80 charges takes 100s to build up from the initial 20. I think it only starts at 20 to simplify the interaction with the grab adding 20.
The thing about being infected is it means you've already gotten hit. Ergo, going down well over a minute later (or after being unhooked) is a result of that earlier misplay--the infection's a timer before looping becomes extremely fraught. And the time to go from 20 charges to 100 is more than long enough to turn a game around.
Like, if you take off the hindered, the mechanic does nothing. It literally just becomes 'exposed if Survivors ignore the infection and sit on gens at full HP the entire time', which is dismal. It doesn't just mean 'now chases can go on for as long as pallets don't run out', it means taking out the passive slowdown. He's got a decent chase power, but he's only as balanced as he is because it carries these rider effects. If people don't feel a need to go cleanse (use DH, for instance, or just force an M1 from full HP), he gets no info. No slowdown. Wesker gets fundamentally reduced to a demo who can do a bit more around corners but doesn't have map traversal, and Demo's not in a good state now.
Ah nvm I missed read the wiki.
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I usually don't like to talk about the ######### people say, but someone once gave me "-rep back cains" after I played pinhead against them (comment hence deleted). Me and my friends spent a good 5 mins laughing at that figuring out what it means. Another one was a Freddy who tunneled and camped me out the game because he thought we were a 4 man (me and friend were a duo with 2 solos) because "we were super coordinated" taking hits for me once at the start and my friend got a flashlight save and said "we're the reason bhvr can't balance this game" and we were "abusing the meta" (you'd have to trust me when I say as a team we really weren't, single DH and two medkits with a flashlight).
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360847#Comment_3360847
If you can run for long enough that the infection maxes out, you're already winning. That's 100s without being downed. 70s with the addon that increases passive infection. If the Killer isn't ending chases in 45s or so, they're losing hard, let alone 'spending so long chasing one Survivor that a solo Survivor could complete a gen'.
The feeling of entitlement to the possibility of an endless chase is ridiculous. It's a 4v1. You have to go down eventually. More Killers should have something like that which isn't 'use about all the dozen pallets that spawned on the map'.
I don't want it to come of as "I want to loop the killer for 5 gens" but instead "When I go down, I want it to be from my mistake or the killer's good play. If I loop the killer well I want to be rewarded for that". Becoming fully infected isn't a strategic decision from the killer or a mistake from the survivor but an ineviability. Also slight numbers, 100 seconds is technically max infection time, but almost all sources provide 20 inital infection so it's 80 seconds and is 56 seconds with the addon. I agree the survivors are in a good spot if the health state goes on for that long, but it's not unreasonable for it too and if that's the case on a killer this good at chase that's a misplay from the killer and hence a hand holding mechanic. Given how good Wesker is it feels unnecerarry as it limits survivors abilitiy to turn a chase around mid match with a good chase.
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My only personal grevence with Wesker is the infection mechanic, I like the theory of it but it feels bad to play against in pratice. Getting infected puts too much of a soft cap on one's chase as once you're fully infected you will struggle to last any amount of time and coming off a hook puts you in a lose lose situation with the killer going back to hook because even if you heal, take a hit with endurance or teammate takes a hit all it does is build up infection over time, Both of these leave you in a lose lose where you're punished for not spraying when you're not given the oppertunity to. His hitbox is pretty generous but not absurdly so and with the expection of iridescent vial the addons are fine, but the infection limits the input of survivor skill and holds the hand of a killer who wouldn't even be bad without this hand holding.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360025#Comment_3360025
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YWTQYB64XZ8V/image.png
Some of the highlighted are one of the best horror movies around.
I'd argue most of these fit in the "innocently mediocre" camp of movies. They're financially very successful but half of the reason for that is that the have such a low budget it's impossible for them not to make money, releasing a horror movie near Halloween will always make you some money and the bar for entry on the genre is so low that you could release anything and the worse you'll get is a "could be better" and people moving on. Given the nature of these movies I'd say this probably ends up being a fan service horror movie and quick cash grab, although I will be pleasantly surprised if I hear it's good because they is a lot of room for a good horror movie with dbd lore.
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I like the idea but it needs to be kept simple. DBD gets away with having a lot of complex perks and powers because the base gameplay is relatively simple to pick up, do gens, unhook and heal, don't die. A canaster idea could be cool as an additional objective that forces people to explore and play more of the map, it makes larger maps better for killer as the size now hurts the survivors more too and makes people take more risks.
Despite this there is one big problem which is balance. It's the same issue as changing the killer objective to hooks, the entire game is balance around the core mechanics so even a minor change to them (such as increasing gen time) can require sweeping changes (like half the gen perks needing to be nerfed to compensate), so completely redesign the foundations of the game is going you to require you to also redesign most the game. Maps have to balanced around gas spawns, gen speed modifiers have to be changed around the gen portion taking less time, suddenly high mobility and aggressive killers become much better than slower more defence killers with this change. In a world where DBD 2 comes out and they can redesign the whole game from the ground up yes, this maybe a better way to do it and would be fun to see. But changing the current game like this would requires such a monumental work load that it could never be worth it.
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Nurse was release to be the "fix" to an incredibly broken dbd. Infinites, insta heals and the works and Nurse was the only killer who could compete with good survivors who knew these ticks and was balanced by being hard to play. Her strengths of good chase helped against good survivors but didn't help with the more traditional, immersed hide and seek most players preferred. Over time this has changed as learning nurse became easier with guides and help from those who has already done it and these options being significantly less power, with nurse also being nerfed, and people as a whole focusing less on immersion and more on looping and competing.
Dbd's longevity early would of been in jeopardy without a killer like this to band aid the game's problems without hurting the upload cycle of content, although I believe perception on how powerful killer's should be now would probably be better without nurse. Do I think modern dbd would be better if Nurse was replaced with a different killer when she came out, yes. Would we have modern dbd without release nurse, maybe not. Overall nurse is an old killer who is arguably outdated in the ways that make her strong who was designed for a different game of hide and seek who beat looping, which is what was needed back then.
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Maybe it's me but pain res has always been super good even after the nerfs, the fact this kind of slowdown came with info and was buffed from ptb was an insane misjudgement of the weaknesses of the scourge hook mechanic. I don't think the perk is unhealthy in the same way some options like dh and eruption are but I do think it's overpowered. I don't mind it being overpowered as it does promote a generally healthy play style of going for hook and encourages less used perks like agitation and other scourge hook perks without needing them to be optimal, meanwhile eruption promoted an un-interactive playstyle and needed certain other perks to be optimal reducing perk variety. Pain res is consistently strong while rarely verging into oppressive to play against which helps it be healthy, although it can allow for some nasty snowballs.
Given some buff to weaker killers allowing them to snowball better I could see it being too much, but until then I think it's in an ok spot as a very strong option that doesn't end up being oppressive.
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@Veroles said:
For me Bond is the absolute best perk for solo queue. Not even "kindred" can do what that perk has to offer. You get information about:
- Where someone gets chased and also if this person drops pallets
- Where you can hold the chase without disturbing team
- You can hittank when needed
- It helps you to sneak around when you are "dead on hook" when another survivor brings the chase closer to you
- You can spot people who love to chill in locker whole game long and wait for hatch since beginning and bring them funny moments and at least a little action
- Mostly you see if someone goes to unhook
- ...
To be honest, i have no clue why the most people in solo queue don't run this perk at all.
I mean as good as it's it isn't the most flashy. If you like perks that have their high impact moments that standout to everyone, information generally isn't for you as survivor. But if you're someone who appreciate options that are more consistent throughout a match and you see the value of instead of others, it's great.
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I want bloodrush as it feels like more of a strategic option to balance out the risk of, background I was more interested in pre-change just to piss off my friend with a "it's ok I have bt" build also using bt and guardian but I could see my self using it with flash bangs with iron will and bond/empathy. Teamwork options are cute but I'm not completely sold of the current ones they seem too weak. Competition seems like a fine gen speed bonus although it does promote 1 person to be the gen jocky, and cut loose is good but not my thing. Overall I like Renato's perks more than Thalita's and I'll probably get them, although I'm using cells for this chapter as I have most of them already so I'll have to wait on Thalita's.
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You don't always want to go for the hooks, often leaving the hooks and going for more downs and other people can be good. Knowing this, slowdown that doesn't require hooks like Call of Brine, Sloppy Butcher and Dead Lock are very good options. Info is generally good on Twins as knowing where to send victor is important but use perks that trigger when playing Charlotte like bbq or Now Where to Hide and remembering where to go later, as victor can't use most info perks.
Some more niche options that are good on twins are hex: ruin and hex: crowd control, you're limited on slowdown and ruin is extra effective if you're regularly going for slugs and forcing multiple people off gens while crowd control is nice as a chase perk that helps victor with difficult windows like shack. Combining these with other hex perks like hex: pentimento, hex: undying or hex: thrill of the hunt can be good.
Finally forced pence is generally whatever but works well here as people like body blocking and playing in pairs against twins, and you like people being injured.
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I find it weird to play some killers without save the best for last, not from a gameplay perspective but losing that nice and fast animation feels weird after using it for a few games (similarly for brutal strength). As for gameplay reasons the closest I have is lethal of Ghost Face, the amount of damage and stalk you get off by knowing where everyone is is insane and a lot of the time the survivors can't realise what you've done because they can't see their own stalk. Another one is corrupt on Demogorgon but that's purely because I like setting up portals at the start and without that you're using deadlock to make up for being passive doing so, or setting up less but come on portals am I right. I do find generally you don't need any perks on any killers, but certain playstyles on certain killers do heavily appreciate what some perks other too much to give up without a very good reason.
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Personally some I'd like:
- Deadlock should have some small condition, like needing to injure a survivor first, in between activations to make it less effective as a camping perk without hurting it too much in normal gameplay.
- Light Born isn't a healthy perk for the game as it is. The perk exists to just say no to certain playstyles with no conditions, counter perks are ok such as franklins or unbreakable but they remain strong while having counter play can have allow the other players to still use the options they brought even if it's at reduced effectiveness. The perk isn't strong and I can respect some people want options to help with flashlights, but a perk which dictates the effectiveness of other options to this extent is too much even if it's weak or overly specific. I'd say after getting blinded inflict exposed (30-45 seconds), reveal their aura (10~ seconds) and get a blind immunity for the exposed duration, that way a blind is very risky for the survivors to preform and it can still be an "anti-bully" perk while leaving the survivors with an interesting decision in the interaction.
- Grim Embrace needs a buff, the "ultimate effect" it provides is fun to work towards but is just lacking that punch it needs to be effective. Improving the aura reading to effect all survivors to reduce the effectiveness of hiding it out or some other small effect could be good, probably best not to increase to duration as that could be dull to play against.
- Off the Record shouldn't provide an immunity to aura reading for as long as it does, on a perk like distortion it's ok as that's the primary objective but survivors shouldn't get that protection from an already good perk while doing their objective. Reducing the duration to 60 seconds or having all effects end on conspicuous actions would probably be the best way to go about this.
- Adrenaline waking up survivors is a cool flavour effect which ultimately doesn't fit into modern dbd and just make a bellow average killer worse for no reason. It should be removed.
Naturally before someone says, yes they're 100 and 1 ways to change dh and something should be done. These are some ones that stick out to me personally beyond that.
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I would say 5 is fair too, hook survivor 1, hook someone else, survivor 1, someone else, survivor 1. I would argue this is generally safer and, on average, more successful than getting a kill at 3 hooks due to pressuring all survivors by forcing unhooks and spreading pressure. Compare to putting all your eggs in one basket and letting 3 chases deciding the outcome while 3 other survivors slam gens. Worth noting that each hooks isn't always 1 chase but assuming it's you'll be more reliable going for multiple survivors.
I've heard some people suggest 6 hooks is the best option in pubs, 1 hook/chase on everyone to feel the waters on each survivor then choose one to kill from their but I feel like that's a preference of play style and you don't need to get the hook to feel how good the survivor is.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3357202#Comment_3357202
Why use them if they are so easy to dodge?
People use them because they're fun to use. They're probably one of the few survivor items that require skill (sabo toolboxes and blood amber keys being the other ones) and adds a new layer of depth to chases and altruistic plays. Getting a flashlight save requires good positioning, stealth and timing (that last part was made more generous recently) while using a pallet blind to your advantage requires good knowledge of game audio and mind games. Flashlights are counter-able but that is what makes them a fun challenge to use. After a pallet blind you can listen for footsteps or grunts of pain to try and track them and punish them for losing distance getting the blind and if you catch someone going for a save that's a massive benefit for you, getting either a hit or resources out the way usually while they weren't doing gens. If you find them hard to beat that's fine but people liking to use them is not a direct correlation to their strength.
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I'll get characters with shards. I had many saved up and nearly enough for two of them which was my original plan anyway, I'll get the female survivor at a later date if I feel like it. If I didn't I'd be tempted to just get skull merchant as I like killers with info (wesker, doctor, demo) and killers who focus on the macro game (ghost face, plague, dregde) as well as the fact I like the look of her perks (namely WHACK and Leverage). Male survivor has some cool perks (bloodrush could be fun as an end game option) while the female survivor's perks I could go without., but I may get later for completion sake.
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People may have totem perks, achieves, play around NOED or just get some bp. Cleansing is apart of the game and people are insensitive to do it for several reasons.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352151#Comment_3352151
You can fake the shred, theres a possibility they either dodge or use Dead Hard. Hell when I had Demo on my other account I used shred to make distance because of how the survivors started dodging going back and forth when they thought I was about to shred.
The issue is if you shred from a distance, which is the point of it, survivors can use dh on reaction so you can't really bait it out. Ideally they panic dh which would be nice but if the survivor panics like that chance are they aren't the one you need help chasing.
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Demo is cute but ultimately a killer I don't care massively for. I don't feel like I have unique or fun build synergies to discover on it, the power is nice to use but nothing super interesting for me and I don't have any of the bias from it being Stranger things. A killer I enjoy from time to time and is a fun killer to play against, but no matter how much I try it's not one I care for playing all too often. Isn't to say I don't want Demo back in the shop as I know many other people care about this killer more than me.
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If I had to it's difficult. Playing against I'd like to not to have to see dead hard and devour hope as they're infuriating to lose against and often punish people off luck, however they're perks I enjoy using quite a bit and many others do so it's hard to pick these ones. Survivor I'd have to say prove thy self, out of all the gen speed options it's the least interesting to use and the least conditional imo so having it go and forcing people to use other options that require some more thinking would be good. Killer I'd pick lightborn, although it allows for some funny moments it's mostly a crutch perk that does very little for the person using it, often makes some people dependent on it as they learn to rely on it instead of playing around flashlights, and makes the survivor's item do nothing which isn't fun to play against considering items are a consumed resources.
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Firstly people learnt to play against her, baiting trap activations and leaving her trapped area makes her less of a noob stomper. Secondly the meta doesn't favour her, she plays into new dead hard very easily, struggle with the strong healing options which have become more popular and generally doesn't like the variety of endurance effects going around.
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If you're doing this PLEASE look at the lobby first. I've seen too many killers bring this despite an absent of flashlight in the lobby and have it do absolutely nothing and waste the slot. I'd also say please try to learn to play against flashlights anyway and don't use this perk as a crutch which substitutes in for your skill, you can play around flashlights and it's worth learning how.
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Personally I don't mind bloodlust 1 as a way to incentives survivors to use their resources instead of holding W and help weaker chase killers with some stronger setups. Despite this I think anything above bloodlust 1 is overkill and acts as too much of a softcap in chase that invalidates player skill. It's also important to make sure powers correctly cancel out bloodlust. Derdge, a killer with a decent chase power, didn't lose bloodlust progress charging its power in chase allowing it to zone a tile but punish the survivor for holding W simultaneously, not need on a killer which has the added utility that dredge has. I believe dredge has had this change in the last midchapter or current ptb but it's not good this took a year.
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@Watery said:
Let's ask some questions!
I'm just a student researcher who likes to practically apply my questions. I use it a lot in terms of the games I play, so I wanted to post them here to see how the community feels about such things.
Killers:
- In an objective scale, rate your current satisfaction with killer through 1-5. Why would you rank your experience the way you did? What in particular is subtracting from your enjoyment of the killing experience?
- How do you feel about the recent string of killers? Do you think there's an inherent issue with their designs? What might be a problem that is setting back killers from being objectively good?
- What determines a good killer in your eyes? How did you come to enjoy your current main? What is enticing to you about their play style?
Survivors:
- With the new UI updates, has this positively affected your gameplay? Do you think there are perks that should be changed or modified in order for them to become more relevant in terms of information communication? Which ones? Why?
- Do you think that survivor perks should cater to more niche playstyles? What niches have not been covered yet?
- Do you think there's a campy horror trope you'd love to see in DBD?
Everyone:
- How do you feel about map sizes? Do you think this resolves the issue of killer having less pressure due to having fewer sq. meters to travel?
- Do you think that a killer with high-skill expression deserves to have a high success rate at mastery in a trade-off for being hard to learn?
- With the introduction of the new survivors, do you think that other survivors should get lines at a later date?
- Do you feel that the tome is successful enough in delivering lore? How do you feel about the stories told? Do you care for them at all?
Killer:
1) 5, this isn't like 100% a blast all the time but I'm enjoying my self as a rule and see my self continuing to do so. The factors that contribute most to matches where I don't enjoy myself is mostly a few maps, most notably Mother's Dwelling and Disturbed ward for their large sizes and strong, centralised main buildings, or unfortunate bugs as these are factors mostly out of the player's control. Despite this I think maps are in a generally good spot and so is killer.
2) I think they're generally good. unique powers that have obvious use cases but less intuitive ones that can be learnt and improved on to help them feel fresh. Naturally there are aspects I don't like, Mastermind's infection isn't great to play again and it looks like Skull merchant can enforce a pretty miserable 3 gen defence (to be seen), but as a whole good.
3) For me the killer needs 3 aspects to be good. Firstly, a power that has a unique aspect to it that helps it stand out and be interesting. Secondly, to achieve an execution of this power that is balanced and takes care of most potential problems with the power. Finally, a selection of addons that provide a variety of effects that can be used to enhance existing play styles or develop new ones. I will note this is vague and a bit wishy washy in it's details but provides a good idea of what the goals are.
Survivor:
1) I believe this new change has removed what was previously a random variance that existed and punished players for not being overall cautious about what their teammates are doing. This has made the experience more enjoyable and when playing with my friends we can focus less on talking about the game and having a conversation. Although certain perks have been made better by these changes, none have seen a significant enough of an improvement to need a change off this alone. Certain weaker killers could receive some quality of life changes as a result, but I believed the kill rate was pretty high before this so I see no major need for immediate change.
2) Generally most play styles have perks that help them. A good variety of perks are needed and if each chapter comes with a generically good perk, a perk for a niche play style and a counter perk/second chance perk on average that wouldn't be a bad idea moving forwards, worth noting some perks can fit multiple of these so this shouldn't be terribly hard.
3) Depends on campy, less serious horror can work but I wouldn't want it to be too jokey. Mastermind's voice lines being comically evil work well as something that can be seen as campy that fits in the game style, but I'm not sure I'd want anything too much more than that. Items like the Wazzup mask kinda go too far but as it's a rare cosmetic and a reference people enjoy so I don't despise it and is fine as an exception, I wouldn't want to see this on a base killer themselves or in original content without good reason.
General:
1) Map sizes on average are fine but they're exception in some extremes. Certain big maps, Fractured Cowshed or Shattered Square, also have the issue of being too safe, one or the other is fine but not both. Meanwhile certain small maps, Dead Dog Saloon or Midwhich, are not safe enough. Size is a balancing factor and big maps can be mostly balanced, Tormented Creek and Sheltered Woods, and same with small maps, Coal Tower or Lery's, it's finding a balance.
2) To an extent. Killer that are hard to learn but even average tend to have low play rates due to a lack of reward but survivors shouldn't lose by design because someone put enough hours in because they also deserve to win off skill and time invested. Another way of putting this is that survivors do need to be able to keep up in spite of this skill curve at high level. I'd argue a killer like Nurse or Blight take this skill expression too far but other difficult killer like Cenobite or Plague reach a better balance in skill expression.
3) If fitting. I wouldn't want this game to become a Marvel movie of one liners constantly as that would make the voice lines lose value and feel repetitive. Having a match where Wesker perfectly says "Poor performance indeed" is lovely but every match and it becomes boring and corny. I don't see the need to give any other character voice line at the moment except a line in the mori of licenced killer for some survivors like Nemesis.
4) Yay and nay. Cutscenes are nice but generally I don't read tome lore. I like the lore presented in the killer's story's but I prefer reading lore over cutscenes and generally would do it before I play or when a new killer comes out, not during/after a play session when I complete the challenge.
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@NekoGamerX said:
people always want the normal sweat on both sides they can't enjoy a farm game/chill game.
I'd say it's understandable. If you only have an hour to play a handful of matches, having a match where no one plays normally and and you can't move on can be infuriating. You loaded up dbd to play a cat and mouse slasher horror game (as advertised) not cookie clicker so when people force you to farm with them for several minutes it can start to feel lame. If people want to farm that's chill but don't be annoyed when someone wants out so they can play the game as intended.
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I'd imagine it could be to do with MMR ranges, and maybe the incentives don't account for where you are in MMR. I've seen other people say their survivor is instant in day which I agree with but I find even if the incentive on survivor early evening killer queues are quicker, I'd assume my killer MMR is higher than my survivor's so that might play a factor.
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I mean in many ways optimising your first chase is the most important part of the game. Wesker isn't a weak chase killer and many good Weskers can get downs on loops even if pallets get dropped (although it's difficult) so it's just a case of improving/un-rusting. Make sure the pressure and pallets are useful to you. Injuring people with medkits early isn't going to do much for you early so focus on people with flashlights and toolboxes, if the survivor is dropping a lot of pallets make sure it's an area you focus later so survivors are forced to play in an area with few resources or force survivors towards windows if you're more confident to get hits there. You can't decide where survivors go but you can force their hand, with your positioning, towards areas you like more.
Finally for build, if you want to win more early game run less late game perks. Blood warden is inconsistent but fun and with NOED is cute, but if you're running multiple late game perks you will fall behind earlier and your matches may be stressful as a result as you're relying on a few plays to carry you. Deadlock is a good safety measure but a more early game focused could help. Corrupt is good if your first chases go slowly or lethal if you struggle to find people early, if you don't have these whisphers is the best free option although it's a bit worse on Wesker than other killers. I'm personally not sold on Superior Anatomy on Wesker but if you feel like it works on you go ahead, I find brutal a nice chase perk on him and I've seen others use I'm all ears as well.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351455#Comment_3351455
I disagree that he doesn't need it. He literally cannot land a guard without it assuming you
Assuming you land the guard on the exact spot of the survivor:
Spawn time: 1.5s, so the survivor has ran 6m
Vision expansion: 1s, so the survivor has ran 10m by the time the vision has expanded fully.
This isn't even taking into account the fact that guards move on the path, making the expansion slower depending on the angle survivors are running at.
He mathematically cannot use his power unless you only zone (which is very situational for knight) or verse people with the reaction speeds of a 60 year old snail.
Yes, if the survivors react frame 1, perfectly move away in a straight line, you place the guard directly on top of them and there was 0 input lag then yes, it's impossible. No player can react frame 1 with no input lag. The base range is 8ms so if the survivor takes 0.5 seconds to react, have inefficiency in their pathing or have to run around walls then it still can hit. Saying good survivors take half a second to react, assuming perfect pathing, isn't unreasonable it's pretty natural.
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I'd say two things about this:
- Firstly you don't need map of the realm, many players play without it. Map makes landing you guards easier and and allow you to cover multiple options but smart decision making and tracking while placing can also achieve this. To avoid sounding rude you don't need map of the realm, you need to get better which is hard to see if you're use to using the addon as it's one that changes the way you learn the killer if you learn him with it as it does hold your hand a bit.
- Secondly, if you do think the addon is needed I'd say you'd change consideration on a few factors. You'd consider the killer as having one addon slot not two, if the addon is super transformative, like tombstone, you may want to disregard it as you're basically talking about a different killer and if the addon is brown/yellow it's reasonable that someone could bring them every match but higher they will have to play matches without that addon which should counted against them. I also personally value diversity in builds as it forces survivors to play around more options which makes them play safe or take risks playing into the addons you have and allows you to run more unexpected options to catch people off guard or fit your playstyle better. If you think map of the realm is need I'd dock a few points, you can bring it every match and knight can have a lot of build diversity with just one other addon slot and perks, although I think it holds your hand it doesn't massively change how you play the killer even if it does value some playstyles over others so I wouldn't call it transformative.
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If you're talking about the cart on the gallows:
- That's been there for ages, I did it about ~6 months ago.
- You can get up there too, you climb the corner of the cart up to the top.
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I'd say most killer have some minor changes that could be done, namely tweaks to a few addons that either don't make sense or are too good, but they're a few that stand out. I'd say the killer needs a solid design without major flaws, to realise that design in a balanced way and a good set of addons with diverse and viable effects. For me personally most killers are in a fine spot but the best spots have to go to:
- Huntress
- Ghostface
- Dredge
- Pinhead
- Plague
- Legion
- Doctor
- Wraith
- Artist
Is worth noting that they're a few things you could change with these killers, silent bell and standing on the box a examples, but these are small exceptions to an already good kit. I will give a few that are very close to being like these ones but have a few too many addons that need to be changed or need base kit changes:
- Blight has a very strong base kit with many absurd addons and exploitable bugs/quirks.
- Spirit's standout addons are egregiously problematic to say the least, most are fine.
- Oni's purples are a bit much and addons generally lack diversity.
- Wekser's infection is miserable to play against at the moment as it puts too much of a soft cap on chase length once infected and often makes tunnelling very effective in a way that's unsatisfying to try and beat.
- Pyramid head's addons are weak and lack diversity, although I could see the killer being too much with significant addons and no base kit changes.
- Freddy I like the base kit of but most the addons are memes and not particularly interesting ones.
- Nemesis, Demo and Death slinger need more viable addons, they don't need to be stronger than the current options though.
- Onryo is cute but needs base kit buffs and addon pass.
I'm not going through every killer but these are the ones that stand out the best. I value build diversity quite a bit as I believe it breaths longevity into both playing the killer and having fun playing against them so a good set of addons is important.
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With Pyramid you don't get good perk synergies that often and have weak addons, as a result you need to rely mostly on your skill with the killer to do well rather than your build (more so than most other killers). I'm all ears can be a nice learning perk for learning survivor movements but I would recommend dropping it if you want to get better after that.
For addons I'd recommend not using any for your first few games just to learn then using duration and range. Duration is useful for allowing more using of your power as it also doubles as recharge, I won't get into how that works just trust me, and range gets you to go for hits you otherwise couldn't and is useful against survivors holding W, a good strategy against pyramid head, when you know how to use it.
For slowdown anything passive that doesn't require hooks/m1 is your main goal. Main perks I'd recommend are deadlock, corrupt and hex:ruin. Other good perks can be options like call of brine, no way out or jolt although these do require a change in playstyle form what maybe considered standard.
For info it's similar, avoid hook perks. Stealth is a good strategy against Pyramid so no where to hide is useful, tinker's stealth is great for getting free hits through walls and discordance has good synergy with both deadlock and tinker as mentioned earlier. Floods of rage, infectious and bitter murmur have their synergies with other perks mentioned although are a lot less generic. Lethal is another generic options although you'll usually run that or corrupt not both.
Chase isn't really needed beyond using I'm all ears so I'll skip right to a build. For a starting build I'd say Corrupt intervention/lethal with discordance, deadlock and I'm all ears. Once you get better I do recommend cutting I'm all ears as it becomes a bit redundant with skill and replacing it either hex:ruin for something generic or something that you feel like works with your play style such as call of brine for being defensive or tinkerer for more information.
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If claw traps provide incap there need to be a different way to remove them. Twins and Cenobite get away with incap because the survivors needs to strategically make a choice about performing an interaction to get rid of it, meanwhile with the batteries in claw trap being a timer means it'll suffer the same issue as eruption''s incap of not being fun because your only options is just to wait the incap out. I'm also cautious of aura reading base as base kit killer information is almost always killer instinct or screams. Screaming wouldn't make sense or do anything practical and killer instinct upon entering would mean they're several sources of killer instinct which could be confusing, especially if one corelates to exposed and one doesn't.
I agree she needs more strength but I feel like adding more onto her information and stealth could be good instead of anti-loop. Having her undetectable activate sooner when entering an active drone and lasting longer when leaving, maybe dependent on how long she was in there, allows her to be more unpredictable and helps her feel like an assassin. Currently the undetectable feels clunky and slow outside a minor chase benefit. I feel like increasing the battery life of the claw traps would be good for tracking and although I can understand the reasoning, I don't think drones should destroy themselves near hooks. The benefit of having a drone near a hook doesn't make since as they can be disarmed easily and it makes setting them up for later impractical when they're removed for free. I do understand that using the claw traps as tracking can be difficult but having that be a skill to be learnt I think is fine.
The main chase change I'd like to see would be increasing the duration of the exposed, maybe 45 seconds, although this is secondary to the other changes in her kit. A killer with weak antiloop can work but the current parts of her kit are lacking a bit too much to make it work.
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I personally wouldn't mind CoB being 1 gen at a time and NWTH is fine. Spamming gen kicking perks is a pretty degenerate strategy, not as in the people using it but as in the strategy itself degenerates the gameplay down into pure gen defence taking focus away from the core of the game which is killer/survivor interaction, so having gen kick perks require conditions or cooldowns is a generally good idea.
NWTH is fine as its only purpose is to tell the killer where survivors are which isn't useful if you ignore them to go after gens instead, although the perk maybe too good at countering stealth. I wouldn't mind a minor nerf to NWTH, maybe a 30-40 second cooldown or changing it so the aura reading is on the gen again like that has been suggested, but I wouldn't say it stands out as a problematic perk in this regard and is low priority on the list of needed changes. CoB could have a cooldown but I feel like having it 1 gen at a time means you can be more strategic with it, giving you more control over where the info is active. I use CoB without other gen kicking perks and although there would be a few times a change like this could hurt, generally you're not having it active on more than 1 gen at time so this change wouldn't hurt too much on the standard use case while preventing spamming of the perk.
In a similar regard overcharge should be changed, as the skill check lasts indefinitely a cooldown would make sense over the change made to CoB. The perk is weird because it isn't that strong by it self but does promote this play style which isn't healthy and is very oppressive against new players when spammed, an issue on a perk that comes with a free console killer, so a buff to the regression to compensate would be worth it. Avoiding regression perks which don't have significant conditions or cooldowns is smart and kicking a gen is an action that the killer will almost always have access to in some way making it a trivial condition, adding cooldowns or other conditions to these perks would be a good idea.
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@appleas said:
Surprisingly, this buffs the Sadako Condemned Slug strategy since she will know where to go next and can teleport with her tva
Hadn't considered that. Not sure how well condemn strategies would be able to use gen kicking as I never learnt them, although I do like Sadako, but would be interesting. My biggest issue with that idea is condemn strategies tend to force people off gens to pickup slugs but perhaps this times it self well with the first slug while people are still on gens.
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@Chadku said:
For the few that believe that this Perk will still be useful on some killers remember what happened to Thanatophobia or PGTW or Ruin.
If you want aura reading there are much better options especially for slugger builds.
But Ruin and Pop aren't unusable either? Ruin is a completely fine choice on a killer like legion, plague or cenobite who all have ways to force people off gens and pop isn't notable on many killers but makes for a nice pairing with pain res or tinkerer which are both good options. I'd say the reason they don't see use is because they're not generic any more, you have to consider the rest of your build and killer before just slapping them on willy nilly like. Just because a perk is more niche than it use to be or doesn't have the 25%+ use rate it use to have doesn't mean it's dead, most perk that are good on certain killers specifically like blood favour or I'm all ears have low use rates because most players will just run what's generically good on every killer instead even if they're worth the same on the killers they're good on.
Thana I'll give you as it's a bit awkward even on legion and plague, who are the best candidates for it, but to say every perk they ever nerfed became unusable is just plain wrong.
@KMainEZ said:
High mobility may get some use from it - though it has been said there are indeed better/more reliable aura perks already for MOST circumstances. Ranged killers simply don't have the time to capitalise on the benefits of this unless theyre happy with just pulling off snipes but not winning. This perk is garbage now imo, i rarely used it before - only on super weak m1 killers or very memey gen kick builds and agree it was OP before. Watch there be maybe 2-3 weeks of people making videos on "how eruption is actually great post nerf" until the clickbait wears off and it fades into obscurity with the other 80+ perks nobody uses
I don't think it'll be great but I do think it'll be good on the right killers. I do agree with most ranged killers finding it awkward but ghost face, who can set up damage at range, doesn't mind kicking gens as he isn't 4.4.
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@Zeidoktor said:
It also still retains a potential benefit I realized when watching a video on Killer builds: it encourages M2 killers to down with their power more. It could be useful as a "training perk" in that sense. Since you can benefit by your M2 downs more than Jolt (which requires M1s) or Pain Resonance (which requires a down and a hook).
It can also pair well with Infectious Fright since upon downing someone you're given information on and immediate threats (anyone nearby who might flashlight save or anyone on a gen you know may be near completion)
I do imagine some omega-slug Oni or Plague build from a youtuber to come out that uses that combo, will be silly.
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I'd argue a bit of the opposite. Current eruption meta (going for 3 gens) is significantly stronger if there are only 3 survivors left in the match, which you said, and the idea of lower tier killers using this instead of tunnelling is nice but not what happens in practice. If someone is going out their way to use the strongest build the assumption that they're doing this so they can play nice makes no sense, chances are they're doing it to win and have no issues tunnelling which works well with this strategy.
If they tunnel because they think they have to to win, they probably will regardless of build. If they tunnel because it's the smart thing to do at the moment, nerfing a strategy that works notably well with it should reduce tunnelling. If they don't tunnel anyway because they want to be nice, or other reason, I doubt this significantly changes anything.
They said the same thing with the meta shakeup, and undying nerf, and noed nerf. Any nerf to a significant killer perks is met with the idea that people will start tunnelling if their strongest build is gone but the answer is they'll find a new strongest build that they work well with instead, because they people weren't tunnelling still won't tunnel and most players have the ability to adapt and overcome.
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My personal build is tinkerer, call of brine, deadlock and lethal. A good mix of being aggressive (deadlock being passive and lethal for a strong start) and gen defence (tinkerer and call of brine to have strong info and regression on relevant gens).
Pyramid is a hard killer because you need to capitalise off your very strong chase potential so mistakes early can mess you up later. Just remember the following:
- Gens can pop, if you drop every chase for tinkerer you will lose as you need to get pressure. Tinkerer is there to help defend gens you care about not the single gen near shack and 5 filler pallets on the other end of the universe you don't have the mobility to always care.
- Regression isn't the only way to defend gens, you're pyramid head and too avoid sounds too condescending, down them faster. You have one of the best chase powers in the game with the time saving ability of the cages and with good plays you can rush them down. This where I'd recommend lethal to get you off to a good start.
- Don't rely on perks. Pyramid head doesn't have good perk synergy. Infectious is nice and undetectable isn't bad but you don't get hooks always, you don't have the mobility to always kick the gen and drop the chase and you don't rely on basic attacks. You down too quickly to equip corrupt unless you change your play style and you apply a lot of pressure by downing fast so deadlock isn't always useful. Your perks, and build in general, is second to skill with pyramid head, more so than other killers at least. Unironically some of best options are stuff like hex:ruin, deadlock or information/aura reading perks to get you quicker downs like I'm all ears or no where to hide. Defend gens with your skill and chase not perks. Sometimes you'll make a mistake and need to catch up but don't depend on perks to do that for you, it's a common pitfall with any killer that makes you worse in the long run.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Me who runs lethal, brutal, bamboozle and a 4th perk on pig:
Whats an eruption?
How do we know that 4th perk isn't eruption though? It could be for all that it matters.
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@Notionless said:
I agree with your primary point, and this plagues nearly every killer and their playerbase.
this has happened to me with dredge. When i started toying with him, i thought that unless you go full meta you don't have a chance, but looking back i realized that i simply sucked (and still do) at any macro level decision making. I only play billy, deathslinger and sometimes huntress or nurse, all killers who rely heavily on their micro, so this doesn't really come as a surprise to me.
However, I cant tell if pain res is really a healthy perk. It can enable camping, since trading is really good at a scourge, and it gives a bit too much value for next to no effort. I think the pre nerf pop was a lot more healthy since you had to meet more requirements.
i'd change it to only getting 8% gen damage, that would also bring it in line with the other scourge hooks and regression perks.
I agree pain res has a problem but my issue is slightly different. It helps with camping but if you want to go all out on the strategy it's the 4th perk you equip if you decide to after perks like deadlock, no way out or corrupt. I think the bigger issue with that and pre-nerf pop is how much they snowball. However, I do agree it does too much once it gets going.
One survivor making a mistake early can cause the killer the snowball a lot of pressure, this isn't an issue by it self but with perks that amplify that snowball it can quickly turn a hard match into an unwinnable match for survivors. I understand the idea of rewarding good play or punishing bad ones but with these perks providing too much progression on low progress gen and not giving the survivors enough of a chance to get progress once they get going leads to matches being decided too much by early mistakes. This can happen with camping however against the correct counter play, doing gens and ignoring the camped survivor it doesn't do much.
Pop being of current progress is nice because in a match where you genuinely need to defend gens it provides around the same value as before, 20% if 90 seconds is 18 seconds (+~2 of the 2.5%) while old pop was always 20 seconds, but means survivors do have a good chance to get those gens to good amounts progress if they're lower. Pain res could get a similar treatment but then it's hard to evaluate what the perk is doing for you as you can't see how much progress the gen has when the perk triggers unlike pop so I do like the idea if it going down to around 8%, I'd personally say leave it at a bit more but the idea stands.
As for dredge it's personal favourite but learning macro focused killers for the first time can be weird and unintuitive, my first killer was plague as this is something I always enjoyed but I do understand it. Stick to it and if you're struggling watch good dredges and see how they manage using and gaining their nightfall to help improve the macro.
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I'd say they had good reasons, firstly regression isn't particularly fun to play against for a similar reason for intsta-heals or similar mechanics, having the opponents immediately undo your work feels bad. A lot of survivor mechanics like insta-heals, insta-blinds and old ds which undid progress still can in away, but in a heavily nerfed state like gen regression. Gen regression gets targeted more at the moment because there is more of it and it's a newer part of the game compared to these other mechanics, as such needs more refining still in where the devs want it to be.
To be fair some of these needed to die, release ruin undying made matches into a complete diceroll for survivors. Even if you efficiently found all the totems the time and gen progress you'd give up if you ended up having to cleanse 5 would lose you the game anyway, but not cleansing ruin would lose you the game against most competent killers anyway meaning you HAD to get lucky with undying rng or map rng and hope the killer wouldn't interrupt you while cleansing the totem as they saw you aura.
Current eruption meta leads to games that drag on, with killers never chasing survivors outside a 3/4 gen from the very start of the game, games that drag on for twice as long despite people interacting with each other less quickly gets boring and repetitive and unlike ruin undying this is a sentiment I've heard from both sides.
I would briefly like to mention PgtW as it's a change I, controversially, liked. In a game where survivors have a lot of progress on gens and the killer needs to fight tooth and nail for every bit of pressures, being able to keep gens under control with it still works in a very similar way than it did pre-nerf. Remember 20% of 90 seconds is 18 seconds (20 with the base 2.5%) while old pop was 25% of 80 seconds which is also 20 seconds, so the time it gets you on high progress gens is very similar than it was before. But in a match where the killer is doing well, survivors are on 3 gens with not much progress, having the killer come over and delete, at the time, 20 seconds of progress, just feel awful when the gen only has that much progress. Old pop made difficult games winnable for killer, which I'd say it still does and is a good thing, but also made games difficult for survivors suddenly unwinnable which feels awful to play against. As a simpler way to put it it scaled too well with the killer's snowball, acclimation of advantages that get you more advantages, the game is already very snowbally and it's probably worth to not add on to that with options that scale to well with people winning as they quickly lead to matches that feel unwinnable. The perk dropping off isn't because it's completely dead but 1) it synergises poorly with the current meta as it can't be applied to multiple gens per down and 2) people's general perception of the perk is worse than it actually is because it's a nerfed perk, a common issue in any online game.
I will say I don't like 10% of current regression on the proposed eruption nerf, mostly because I don't think 10% is enough regression to warrant it. But generally any change that stops these 20+ minute games of "gen defence" simulator is healthier than no change.
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Dredge is fun but not that easy. It's not mechanically complex but it's easy for people to bait themselves into using the power when it hurts them, managing nightfall is an important skill which the mechanic of aren't intuitive and there isn't any plug and play builds/addons for Dredge, they're all synergistic and require you to change your play style. I personally like these aspects of dredge as it makes it fun to learn and leads to a lot of diversity in how you play it, but can be a turn of for people who want someone a bit simpler. Generally speaking, killers with a complex 1v4, or macrogame, like Plague, Ghostface or Dredge tend to see less play than killers with a larger focus on the 1v1, microgame, like Huntress, Mastermind or Deathslinger.
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Firstly, people on forums always say the game is getting worse. Most people don't cry out about how much of a good time in dbd they're having, because they're playing dbd instead and enjoying themselves. Most people on forums are here because they like forum interactions, are looking for help or want a place to give their anger and the last group defiantly has the most they want to say.
To avoid sounding like a dickhead there is one constant here. What I'm saying applies to most multiplayer games which blaming the other players is a mindset that you can bait your self with. Someone else mentioned cognitive biases which is a key factor but there are two things to consider.
- Regardless of hours or intent it's ok to not do well. People get lilted, unfocused, unlucky, make mistakes and hell I can get rusty after not playing for less than a week. Doing bad is ok, you're not supposed to win all the time on either side and the most important part of any game is trying to win while setting goals that aren't contingent on it. Trying to get better isn't always winning, using a new build and experimenting isn't always winning, going for those sick montage clips isn't always winning. I'm not saying to not try or expect to lose but if you are someone who needs to always win, which doesn't necessarily sound like you, multiplayer games probably aren't for you. Ultimately it's a game and yes someone may bm in the post chat but beyond that no one else will significantly care about the results of the match afterwards. I'm saying this because important for the next part.
- You are the constant. Record it down to avoid any sort of negative biases and check, are people really bringing absurd amount of gen speed bonuses each match or are my team mates actually throwing. Chances are they're not and there's one factor constant, you. Chances are you're not even losing too often but just have this negative bias which picks out what you don't like over what you do. If you win less than your average survivor however, you are the constant in all of your teams. If you are seeing these problems and what your doing isn't working change. Stop throwing yourself at the killer because of this defeatist mindset that your teammates are bad, make sure that on these 2 minute chases your aren't bringing the killer to your teammates and stopping them from doing gens, maybe try to focus on objectives and see if that helps. As for killer bring some early game help, play more aggressively, gen speed bonuses usually come at the detriment of not having as strong medkits or other late game options so focus on exploiting that, the survivors can't have everything. It's easy to blame the factors out of your control but if the constant in the matches you lose is you, you need to change. Try anything different and see if it helps rather than doing the same thing over and over.
I understand what I said may sounds condescending as you do have a lot of hours but I've seen people with even more and less hours fall into this negative pitfall of thinking they've learnt the game or it's always factors out their control and let themselves get infuriated by it, notably it's just as easy for smart or experienced people to rationalise bad ideas or thought patterns as those who could be consider less smart or experienced. None of this just applies to dbd and I'm not saying the game is perfect, but if the frustration is from losing adapt. Most killers can win and most survivors can win, regardless of hours the game will change in a way that hurts your playstyle every so often and you'll have to look at yourself and think, what should I do to overcome this.
A final thing is you do have a lot of time, maybe you've gotten bored. Sometimes it isn't about losing or change but over exposure. 1k is a lot in any game and maybe your bored, the small matches where things go wrong irk you more and more and the nice ones are a drop in a puddle now. If you genuinely feel like you've had enough regardless of any changes you could make it take a break, the game has given you a good bang for your buck and it will always be there to come back to later for all it matters. BHVR will notice if everyone gets bored and dislikes the game from play rates or reviews, so don't worry yourself about whether or not this is a personal issue or some grand problem BHVR has the tools to figure that out themselves it's their job.
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I feel like given a few weeks the dust will settle and we will be back in a similar spot. Bad survivors who made bad decisions regardless of the information, such as being pessimistically selfish or overly altruistic, will continue to make these decisions and not change. Teams who already had communication won't see a significant change beyond maybe seeing what the random who wasn't with them was doing. Ultimately this change helps good survivors who lacked information make good decisions without making guesses. These survivor's mmr should go up to what they would be if they on a more coordinated team, and then you'll be back to playing against similar players as before. There are concerns about mmr caps and what not but this is something which is really easy for BHVR to change in the background without announcing so I wouldn't be too concerned about it.
This change doesn't make players better, is make them reliable. As a survivor I like this as I feel like I'm not losing a match off guessing wrong and getting unlucky, I also feel like this doesn't get in the way of some information perks I like to run like bond and fogwise as it doesn't tell me where people are. As killer I like it because I no longer win because someone randomly gets to 2nd stage or someone tries to trade with someone on the ground when they haven't recovered, my matches have been slightly harder but I've seen this less as time has passed.
Some killers may get some buff around this but the idea that the average killer is significantly weaker probably won't hold going into the next update. The only killers that are notably hurt from this are those like Twins, Oni or Knight who benefit of spreading pressure and confusing players, every other killer will perform the same once the survivors significantly benefiting of this climb their mmr.
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I'd say he's in a fine spot, slightly below average but in a similar way to doctor, wraith and dredge where he's not weak. He's not really a killer who should be too strong because his counterplay is limited, he always gets hits but doesn't get them quickly, so I liked the spot he's in. I enjoy playing against him as it feels chaotic and the banners lead to interesting decisions, but I do see where the frustration comes from. He has some weird addons that could be changed but I'd want them to be careful so as to not make him too much stronger in the process.
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What do you mean by this, how does it feel like a mobile game? Also, the mobile version is different to the other versions with its own cosmetics, moris and a reduced cast of killers.
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Myers is weird. On one had evil incarnate should put him in the highest tier, maybe even his own. But like what's evil? Demogoron isn't evil but the concept doesn't exist to it so is Myers a person who understands evil but always chooses to do it? Is it even a choice at that point? Do we have free will?
Myers debatably shouldn't even be on this list because there's no way of judging him based on his intents because he's never given any in the originals beyond being cursed to do so, which means he's a victim of evil or never has a choice in his actions in which case he can't really be evil he's just a puppet of a curse. "Pure evil" icks me so much when the character isn't shown to have free will because then it's not evil it is a set of actions they would have always taken regardless of situations like a robot, robots aren't evil they're just told to do evil and do it.
As for the knight, he's kind of in the same category as deathslinger. Taken in as a slave and shown that selfishness, honour amongst thieves and violence are what get you by. You could argue evil but I would then say trapper is evil, both idolising and learning the worse parts from their childhood and twisting into adulthood to justify mass murders, knight just takes it to another level.
I'd put the Ghostface in worse the worse, he actively hurts and kills for personal benefit. There's no alternative motive like family honour or science he does it because he likes the thrill and messing with people. I also don't see why Frank isn't worse of the worse either, he manipulates others to kill and hurt people because he wants to control them and unlike the other members of the legion, except Julie if I'm right, doesn't hesitate to do bad things. Personally what separates evil from the worse is a lack of a greater motive. If someone does evil for satisfaction or the fun of it that's the worse they can do, compared to doing it for family, science or some form of penance for the victim. There is a case that the worse evil is the kind that doesn't know its evil but that's something I disagree with.