Riski
Riski
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I wouldn't describe any as an utter failure yet also some are underwhelming. Red forrest maps didn't really change much however it was advertised as a "visual rework" and to that extent is was good, visually I'd argue the maps look much better. Similarly Eyrie of crows is still a strong survivor map however it's much more balanced than before. Both of these changes could of had more however they both promised something (better visuals, better balance) and delivered even if the end result wasn't perfect and I feel like this goes for most changes. Controversially I liked coldwin changes as it help diversify the types of enviorments in the game although I can see how some people may perfer the darker theme and I very much liked the changes to blood lodge as it feels much better to play as a stealth killer now, I've heard some people show distaste towards the gas haven change saying it's stronger for survivors but I personally don't see it.
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I don't think there should be for gf as if you get stalked it is, to an extent, a fault of your own. Myers on the other hand would be more fair as a common complaint when facing him is the feeling that you're losing because of teamates feeding his power and dying out of the blue from it however he's already quite weak and this would be a significant nerf, in a world where he's stronger I wouldn't comaplin about a change like this however.
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Yes but usually not trying too hard. Getting a 1k as killer honestly feels the same as 0k considering how easy it's for many killers to camp/tunnel even at the end and personally it doesn't feel rewarding. Despite this what else are you suppose to do, unless the last gen was just done as you hook them any survivor you catch will be able to run to the exit gates before you down them and there's nowhere else for them to be at the moment. I have had very fun and intense end games before that make me feel like the game could go either way but those are usually dependent on certain perks being in play such as no way out and NoeD or specific conditions such as sluggin being an option or someone already dead. From the survivor perspective I sometimes more fun for the killer to camp and to have a difficult rescue mission but as killer I honestly wouldn't care at that point.
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Her easiest stratergy is 3 gens that take ages to resolve. I'd argue a good skull merchan still puts drones on gens but is able to probably utilise the haste and utility from them to effectively down survivors without it taking 10 years. To an extent it's the opposite of Oni. Getting value out of Oni's demon form is easy but obtaining it is the hard part new players struggle with while with Skull Merchant setting up drones and trackers is easy but properly capitlaising off them is the skilled part. The issue here is if someone isn't skilled they can set up drones and slowdown the match but then can't capitalise off this and just end up stalling for ages, this causes survivors to give up because neither side is significantly progressing the game and as a result the skull merchant wins. As she won she doesn't feel the need to improve and continues playing the way she did before.
As someone who has played as her and against her I will agree with most people that a bad skull merchant who stalls out the game with a 3 gen is boring to play against and play as however a skull merchant who understands how to utilise her more agressive tools can be very interesting and fun to play against and as. The issue isn't that her 3 gens are too strong or the best way of playing her, it's that they're often the default way to play and are good enough that people never feel like they need to move on from it.
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@Firellius said:
IMO, with the way the hatch was reworked, keys should be too.
Keys should be replaced with bangles that innately grant the ability to see the aura of other survivors while concentrating, with add-ons increasing the range, duration, or adding the ability to see the killer.
The actual key for the hatch should spawn in a random chest at the start of the trial.
EDIT: Also, in terms of item variety, there's potential for more traps than just the flashbang/firecracker. A tripwire bell would probably work too.
A bangle could work considering the main use of keys is their aura reading right now. More traps could be fun but I wanted to focus on expanding upon existing content more than create from the ground up.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446953#Comment_3446953
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with what Ninja Doc is, but I'm very interested !
I believe it's using double calm addons with monitor and abuse to reduce your terror radius by 22 meters when your blast is off cooldown giving you a very small TR and sneak up on people.
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@Bartlaus said:
Wraith, Myers and Doctor are my personal top 3. Almost all of their addons are useful and some allow for completely different playstyles.
Worst AddOn Kits? I think Billy, Bubba and PH.
I would almost agree with Myers but tombstone is one of the worse experiences in the game imo and I'm not a fan of how many addons just end up removing stalking as a mechanic such as the mirrors or infinite just removing stalk part way through the game which is a shame because it's a very flavourful mechanic. Doctor defiently has some fun addons which change everything up so I won't disagree with that although with him and wraith I don't like the redundancy with their options. Bubba I think has more useful addons than people give credit for however there is the issue of most those options being worse than chillis + Beast marks which are so generically good there isn't an amazing reason to run much else.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
Wraith and Hag have a lot that are simply number increases as the rarity goes up, which is more than welcome imo. It's probably one of them. I would have said old Hillbilly if it weren't for every single one of his addons getting changed.
I recently watched that otzdarva vid on the addons tierlist, and he made a pretty good case for Plague having lots of useful addons. Even a lot of the less good ones are still pretty usable. I'm biased on this last pick, but I think all of Ghostface's addons have a clear use after he got an addon pass, and I like the fact that his browns are all pretty good too.
I personally like plague's and Ghostface's too as there are a lot of fun options, I do feel like the irdescent seal is a tad much though and ghostface has some interesting greens that could be condenced or improved (namely Longlasting Perfume and chewed pen) however I do love both of these killers so I may also be biased. I'm personally whatever on Wraith and Hag as they're addons are balanced, useful and do allow different play styles but the actual variety is relatively low because you have sets of three addons that all do the same thing with different numbers. I don't mind two addons that do the same thing as that allows you to stack the effect if you wish but a third just feels super redundent and a waste of a slot, I would much rather these the addons be weak but unique than balanced but samey because then they're adding something new. I also have addons I very much dislike playing against on both, silent bell for wraith and shackles on hag, however they're fun to play against the first few times imo so idm as much.
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It killer sided if you avoid main building as killer. Chasig a survivor at main can often waste 20-30 seconds for an injure with no resources being used up and only being near one gen, meanwhile the rest of the map is full of weaker loops which have pallets/relavent breakable walls which do make the loop significantly weaker once broken. Due to the location of the gens and main building it isn't too hard to avoid it for the most part and taking a chase their can be alright if you think it'll be quick. By avoiding main you're removing the best loop for survivor, leaving them with mostly medicore loops and reduce the area you have to care about by about 20% for the downside of leaving a couple of chases and giving up one hard to defend gen because it's on the second floor. This isn't to say you need to 3 gen and camp out the entire camp but instead be selective about the chases you take.
I'd say it's killer sided as a result, as understanding this isn't hard, however I wouldn't say it's balanced/well designed as a result. The stratergy is to ignore one of the most unique parts of the map and play in an extremely small play area which leaves the survivors with few options. I didn't say 3 genning was need but the map can spawn with a very strong 3 gen only defended by a few pallets and weak connection to shack, the area behind killer shack. There are good things about this map, it's very pretty and the variations of old tiles which are stronger with breakable walls are unique and a good examples of well placed breakable walls which aren't necerassy to break but also aren't useless to break, but overall I'd say the map needs to be slightly bigger with a weaker main building to increase the play area and encourage people to engage with main.
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I found usually a combo of 2 slowdown, 1 chase and 1 info works well on Wekser. Personally I think a good build is deadlock, no way out, discordance and brutal strength/bambozle. Deadlock and no way out buys you time passively which stacks well with Wesker's passive slowdown he can get through sprays. Similarly discordance works well with both deadlock, as a good counter to deadlock is to stack on gens rather than split up, and works well with the sprays, as it's an innconsistent but powerfull info perk which appriciates the additional constant info of survivors spraying. Brutal and Bambozle are just generically good wesker perks, breaking pallets faster works well with your mobility and bambozle makes many vaults extremely weak when combo'd with your bound.
The above build is very flexible so if you wish to swap some perks up (other good options include pain res, corrupt, bbq and noed) it's quite easy to so it's a good build for experimenting with. As for addons I usually run the gloves for faster power recovery and tendral for faster move speed when charging however you have many options. Unicorn and crank is a favourite of many players as they often improves your chase, chalice and lion madalion are good for getting more consistent hits and even jewled beatle has a genuine use (as the cooldown after throwing rather than slamming gives survivors less distance).
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A neat concept but a few issues. Firstly an objective concept like this would always need massive mechanics overhuals as suddenly the goal of the game has changed for one side as playing for this is a win conditon (namely the exposed). As someone else said this could work well as a sourge perk or maybe even a power (perhaps a clutist loyal to the entity or a executioner for criminals brought into the realm) however my critism will focus more on the idea of a base mechanic.
Firstly however are the things I like:
- I like the utility added to base killer which could allow for some more niche perks to shine and additional use for basement to help make the game more interesting.
- I also like basekit moris being introduced here as a natural way to achieve them (a reward for showing devotion to the entity) as a way to make them feel more important.
- A somewhat personal thing, I like how the infomation side of this could be used to deal with stalling on the survivor side as that can be a rather dull experience. Similary a lot of people have issues with map size on low mobility killers which the teleport could also be of use to these players. Both of these applications do feel like bandaid solutions to an extent however.
- The final effect for 8 hooks is a nice insentive for going for hooks over kills if not a bit difficult to get.
- Promoting the use of many hooks makes killers use more of the map instead of staying in one corner to camp/3 gen. Simialrly forces survivors to consider where they went down and encourarges them to split up less so the killer awakens less hooks.
And my issues:
- Teleporting often wouldn't be worth it on most maps because by the time you walk to the basement you could of most likely just walked to the hook it self. I do like this from the idea of giving a benefit to basement hooking that doesn't encourage camping but you could use it to camp and then instantly teleport elsewhere onc your done to make up for lost pressure. It also doesn't make much sense for some killers to teleport in terms of flavour as that is a very super natural effect (why is trapper teleporting he doesn't have magic or fancy tech).
- Killer instinct sound neat but is exclusive to powers for a reason. Killer instinct often has additional conitations for some killer powers such as full condem, someone being near victor or someone cleansing a portal which is infomation the killer wants to understand as quickly as posisble. If I hear killer instinct I should instantly know what it means and it's not unreasonable for some of these to overlap with the shrine of sacrifice effect.
- 60 seconds of exposed for hooking 4 survivors is insanely good and would allow for a lot of snowball. A killer like wraith, deathslinger or spirit could easily win the game of one proc of that and if you do get two procs of this you might as well win the game. Perks like Noed and haunted ground triggering are potentially game winning only being heald back by either inconsistent or unoptimal timings so giving killer control over and affect like this is a bit much and the permient exposed could just be used for uncounterable camping situations.
- As a final issue this does give infomation, chase and mobility to killers which would discentivise the use of perks with these effects and encourage the use of slowdown perks which are already some of the most used, hurting perk veriety. I did say it could allow for more niche perks but that does come with the assumption that killer players wouldn't use it to make their best builds more powerful.
Adapting these concepts elsewhere could be a good idea but having them base would probably be too disruptive to the game as a whole and lead to quite a few problematic interactions. As someone else said scourge hooks could work (after hooking 4 survivors on scourge hooks apply 60 seconds of exposed, hooking on a scourge triggers aura reading on all hooks for a duration, after being unhooked from a non-scourge hook it becomes a sourge hook) or perhaps a power of some killer (a cultist/priest prepares the hooks like preparing a ritual, a bloody executioner gains power from using different hooks and fufilling his job ending in him being able to behead/mori). Overall good ideas that probably should be apllied elsewhere in game.
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On some killers yes, but most probably not. They're good hexes for many killer but not many generically good hexes beyond pentimento, devour (which wants different support) and No:ed which doesn't work with pentimento pratically. On certain killers perks like blood favour, crowd control and ruin can be very good and even a couple of minuets of these perks at the start of the game is enough value out of them for it to worth running, especially with pentimento. The issue is these perks are killer specific and killer like trapper, myers and demo I would argue don't have good pentimeto builds. Undying and haunted can be ran to good effect on most killer if there is another hex to run with them that will get survivors to clense, which loops back to the previous issue of a lack of generic hexes that are ideal for pentimento.
I will say that plaything with pentimento is generally overratted, although not bad. Yes it's a lot of hexes for pentimeto but it's very slow requring you to wait for a down, then the unhook, then the clense and then you relight the totem. Having a hex which can get good imediate value and gets clensed quicker is what you want with pentimento ideally, so you can get it up quickly, although the sheer number of totems does make playting a decent combo. I will say slower hexes like Face the Darkness and Devour can be good but for a similar a reason of them not being cleansed early if you want to use them with pentimento you'll still want other, faster hexes.
I do enjoy hex builds and some personal pentimeto builds of mine are:
- Trickster: Blood Favour, Undying and Pentimento.
- Twin: Ruin, Crowd Control and Pentimento.
- Plague: Thrill of the Hunt, Face the Darkness, Devour, Pentimento.
A 4th hex can often be worth running, notably face the darkness and thrill of the hunt become better with more hexes too, but having extra utility in another info, chase or slowdown perk that isn't cleansable is often more reliable which makes up for the inconsistency of hex builds. Finally despite the power of hex builds, even now, people generally don't run them because a lot of killer players like consistency and control over a match, which hexes provide neither of in a power but unpredictible option.
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This is like hyper focus where yes, hyperocus and a very good toolbox is very strong. So is a very good toolbox and prove or a very good toolbox and built to last and I bet savenger and a very good toolbox will be very strong also. What makes these builds strong is that they involve very good items and people, unitentionally, play more efficently on gens in an attempt to maximise the value of these perks without realising that that has more of an effect than the perk itself.
I wouldn't even think this is better than hyperfocus with a toolbox because it requires you to hit 4 skill checks without a toolbox which is inconsistent as best while with hyperfocus the toolboxeses shore up the perk's inconsistenties by increasing the skillcheck chance and in the hands of 99% of players it's probably worse than built to last because of this, and lets be fair here most people complaining aren't at the skill range where this would be better. My bets for most likely situation is this will be released, people will play "scavenger builds" and think it's really good, realise the toolboxes are what makes it strong and leave it.
That is not to say I dislike the perk, I love perks that reward great skill checks as they make gens more fun however this won't be as bad as some people say.
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I mean you are basically loading into a match and going afk for 5 mins while the survivors do gens, I can understand the meme but it's an incredibly dull game to play against and kind of a waste of time for survivors that want to play the game.
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Knight and skull merchant weren't the best at 3 genning, 3 genning was the thing they did best and it's an important difference. You could use any killer like nurse, demo or wesker to hold a 3 gen and they'd win more often than knight or skullmerchant the difference being is they didn't need to. If you spend 30+ minuets in your nurse match you're atcually just playing nurse badly because she really doesn't need that, demo had the same 3 gen potential that knight and skull merchant had with 3 gens it's just demo wasn't the fancy new toy and had other stratergies developed and even a killer like Wesker could hold down a 3 gen and win. Your power didn't matter at the start of the game you could indentify the 3 gen, hold it all game and win if you had the right perks.
The reason why knight and skullmerchant were know for 3 genning is because 1) it was the meta when they came out (in the case of knight it was discovered after people realised it was good on knight) and 2) it synigised with their powers well and became thier most effective stratergy (along side everyone elses most effective stratergy) when they didn't have much else to do.
Overcharge and call of brine weren't the most overpowered thing on killer, however every killer was using it reguardless of if their power had synergy with it or not. When options like dms on artist and doctor or sloppy butcher on wraith weren't seeing use because these high synergy options were outclassed by overcharge call of brine it's very clear something was wrong. Knight was the catalyst that caused people to realise this and skull merchant made people realise you don't need eruption, but even without those killers these stratergies would of eventually been discovered and used the same way.
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Killer overrated: Hex plaything:
This perk requires you to down the survivor, for them to get unhooked and then for you to go after them or for them to go for the totem for it to do anything. It's extremely slow and on most killers it isn't good. Killers like trapper, hag or oni are already slow and don't want perks that are too slow and on stealth killers being oblivious just doesn't matter so people won't go and cleanse the totem. The overrated part is mostly this with pentimento, even slower because after the survivors choose to cleanse the totem you then need to go and rekindle it just so you can stack a passive debuff on them, at this point if there is time left for it to matter the survivors were slow and you were already winning and if there isn't much gen time left they just power through it.
Killer underrated: Tinkerer:
A good perk but one no one uses any more. Feels like any form of gen defence that can't be used to put the game into an effective lock is seen as completely useless and now it's once per gen people push it to the side however with the changes to gen times to 90 seconds you now have even more time to react to the trigger and being able to stop a gen, sneak up to survivors and give yourself time to regress it is extremely valuable and I'm suprised this perk doesn't see more use. Really good on killers like Wesker, Plague and Pyrmid head who I feel like make good use of the undetectable and make good use of the infomation like anyone else.
Survivor overrated: Hyperfocus:
People unfairly scream bloody murder when they see this perk. Can hyperfocus with a stacked toolbox and stakeout completely slam gens, yes. Could a toolbox with streetwise and built to last slam gens, yes. Could a toolbox with any two other gen perks slam gens really fast, yes. Hyperfocus is a fun perk to use however a lot of it's effectiveness isn't from the perk it self but how people use it and what people use it with. Using a good toolbox smartly, so on a gen which needs it and not necessarily the first one in a match, can make gens feel impossible to defend and commiting to gens a lot is playing efficent can be good even without a toolbox. Hyperfocus is a decent perk that by it self is inconsistent and fun and when played into makes people use items and stratergies which are good even without hyperfocus with hyperocus still being just good, not insane, when used like this.
Survivor underated: Bond:
Peoplle who claim kindred is the god of solo-q clearly don't use other info perks. Kindred is good for making sure unhooks happen efficenly however there is a lot more that goes into coordinating with your team. Bond is the most generic info perk constantly providing a good amount of infomation but namely can ensure that the killer is not taken to gen your teammates are on. I can assure you if you take the killer on year long chases for gens to not get done chances are you were bringing the killer near your teammates and with this you can confirm 1) Where teamates are and 2) how close can you bring the killer before they hide, a 30 second chase where the killer isn't brought to your teammates is debatably better than a 45 second chase where everyone is close together. On top of that it can still help with unhook situations, finding teammates to heal and understanding objective locations like other infoperks like bond. If you think kindred is the be all end all please try other info perks like bond or altert and please try to undertsand them.
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I will start off by saying I agree with the comment that more grass is good, and probably the most useful change one could make for trapper. Undetectable after a trap trigger sounds cool and if not a base kit change would be fun as an addon (maybe also on trap disarm then) and the trapper sack change makes complete sense, TR on traps also sounds fun but probably a nerf because once the survivors undertsand you have that addon it just gives away your trap locations.
The issue with the base kit changes is that not having any traps set is actually very powerfull. It's ghostface but you swap mark for just perma stealth all the time, this promotes a playstyle of never using your actual power and playing a pure hit and run playstyle never commiting to chase. Wraith is encouraged to commit to chase by no being guarenteed a hit after uncloaking and ghostface has a cooldown to stealth forcing him to play for chases, this wouldn't and not particually fun to play against as the killer is encouraged to never chase. It's ultimately a change that makes the Trapper not want to use traps and I would argue is a bad design as a result. I understand "make traps better" is vague and not very useful but that mentality makes more sense than removing the insentive to use the traps completely in place of new mechanic, any new mechanics present should encourage/empower the use of traps not weaken it.
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@Jace233 said:
Instead of teleport portals, detection, and exposed mechanics over and over...
Do a grey alien that can mind control survivors and force ur MCed survivor to grab another and hold them their.
Do a wizard that shoots fireballs or frost spells.
You guys need to start being original and make killers that change the status quo or this game is going to nosedive in population because it is getting rather boring.
Ok that first one sounds horrible. The ability to play is literially taken away from you for however long the mc lasts, once you are mc'd you can't do anything and skill doesn't matter. The wizard sounds neat but thematically doesn't work well in a game based around slasher horror, reflavoured to be a firebreater or a witch/warlock however sounds like it would work.
Like someone else said the new killers are original. A knight itself is thematically old the power is defiently original and as much of a mess the skull mechant lore is the idea of a daughter who mimics her dad's art and then goes of the deep end when that art stops being produced is also every unique. Original is not the same as well designed and well designed is not the same as original.
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I would agrue post patch there aren't true "best generic builds". Previously, reguardless of killer the best build was overcharge and call of brine and before the meta shake up the best build was hex:ruin, pop and corrupt. Metas like these don't always exist but even without them they're generically good builds.
I'd elect pain res, deadlock, no way out/corrupt and gift of pain/sloppy. Info/chase is nice but killer specific while slowdown doesn't get much worse on any killer, just out valued sometimes. Pain res is 100% of a gen in total which is obsurd and makes a strong start snowball very well, while deadlock is potentially 2 minuets of blocking and can help recover a bad start making for a nice combo. No way out depends on the killer but is generally good for securing an extra kill, set up killers would rather corrupt however as more time early ends up being better than more time later. Mangled and hemorege is so much better with medkit nerfs and even against insta down killers healing is important making this desirable, sloppy for M1 killers gift of pain for other killers.
Would I advice you run this build, no. Any killer can find a perk here a replace it with something more synergistic for them. If you had to do a winstreak using one build on every killer would I recomend this, I mean it can't go wrong for the most part.
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Basically playing without considering the fun of the other side in mind, if it's in the game and you want to use it to win or have fun then go ahead. Player's shouldn't be and aren't at fault for using the tools in the game to win and if you're mad be mad at the devs. I will say that not caring about the other sides fun =/= wanting the other side to be miserible which is something some people seem to confuse at times.
The killer is free to tunnel, camp and slug to win and the survivors are free the gen rush, t-bag and use flashlights to win as examples and if people don't like that don't blame the player blame the devs. I'm not saying people can'tconsider what's fun for the other side if they want to however they shouldn't be expected to.
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Killer perspective, seen a veriety of items and perks but was generally losing. I will say that I hadn't played for a hot sec and was boosted to say the least, and a lot of these were just me. Medkits still seem good but don't carry a match beyond the begining and damage generally lasts allowing for more plays reguarding people being injured, toolboxes still feel the same but I didn't see a massive increase of them. Less DH feels nice and makes mistakes more impactful with people generally playing safer, CoH was seen a bit and still feels strong but generally less impactful being set up when survivors need to recover instead of always.
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Personal take but I don't see this. It maybe the best generic catch all perk but unlike pain res or OC + CoB this doesn't often beat killer specific options. Artist would still rather DMS, Trapper still perfers corrupt and Wraith still wants jolt more. The issue isn't good generic perks but generic perks that are better than the options that depend more on synergy, mind you these synergies weren't weak it was that these other generic options were that much better than anything else.
The only change I could see it getting is a change to make it less effective with face camping. Face camping the first survivor is a cheese stratergy generally as it fails if people do gens but deadlock does help prevent this in a significant way, with their being little potential for other forms of counterplay. Some slight requirement (such as requiring you to injure survivors between activations) could help but is awkward to introduce.
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The Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Res nerf are very much justified. In a game where each perk has unique synergy and interaction on each killer the fact the best build for each killer is completely the same of Overchagre, Call of Brine and Pain Res is very unhealthy for diversity. The issue isn't these perks having a high use rate or that they're good but that they homogonise builds on every killer. A perk like Dead Man's Switch is an example of a healthy perk in terms of use rate at the moment being an option for every killer with other perks that have synergy while being a strong option on killers like Doctor, Artist and Knight who can pressure the gens at a distance making matches and builds against these killers more unique.
I'm not against the idea of generic perks being good but the best build for every killer shouldn't be some generic, default miricale which requires people to not even think about the synergies of their power and addons otherwise matches against different killers begin to feel the same.
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@SeeZzer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396162#Comment_3396162
I mean back then, I was able to loop 2 - 3 gens against a hardcore killer without any problems. Some mindgames and everything was fine. But right now, I am just looping 1 tile and that's it. There is no time to run to another tile when the killer understands what I am doing.
Is it even possible to loop like before the big update back then?
I mean if it's been a while you might just be rusty, or people generally looping better on both sides over time. It's not unreasonable or unfair to say you might need to warm up more or adjust to the new mindgames people like to use now. There were small buffs to killer in 6.10 (breaking pallets faster and less disatnce after being injured) but I don't imagine that should make a massive difference, slight changes to maps but good plays probably wouldn't care about these as much.
Nothing wrong with being rusty I'm rusty after a week of not playing, just something you need to deal with, if it's map changes WIndows of Oppertunity might help but don't learn to rely on it.
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Seeing a David without dead hard, or namely with lithe or sprint burst. Might be different next patch but it alway throws me off.
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Overall hit and run killers care more about the healing nerfs than other killers, and high tier killers who could finish chases quickly or killers with instanta downs care less about the healing nerfs. Hearing a CoH as blight, nemesis or buba means little as you can either commit to chases, spread pressure w/o injures (infection) or down them reguardless. Meanwhile hearing CoH as wraith, hag or twins has a much bigger impact on your gameplan as you want to try and keep people injured, so at least buying more time as these killers will help significantly.
CoB and OC nerfs primially affect slower paced killers such as legion, trapper or skull merchant but I don't think this is the death of these killers as they still have access to perks like corrupt and deadlock which are more important to their gameplan. Pain res nerf is still a good perk and will still be primarly used on more agressive killers such as blight, ghostface or wesker. Overall killers will still have useful builds and be able to compete they'll just have to adapt. Mangled and Nurse's calling become better with the healing nerfs while franklin's becomes worse.
I will say Hag is probably eating good here. The trap nerf hurts but she never really used any of the nerfed perks, the healing nerf helps her signficantly and the perks she already likes using synegise well with the changes (such as sloppy and nurse's). She doesn't care too much about a DH nerf (as good hags could teleport fast enough that it was hard to react to) but she also doesn't card about most exhuastion perks so that's not too significant)
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Basicallly the perk snowballed too quickly when triggered consistantly. An early down into even average chases with pain res was enough to ensure a match by itself escentially unless you got unlucky with hook spawns. As killer this may seem balanced but as survivor it can feel infuriating to lose off the killer getting lucky of hook spawns when you could of won otherwise. Unlike similar perks like Pop goes the weasal this 1) Does flat regression allowing it to quickly bring a gen to low progress of chain hits and 2) Didn't require any additional commitment beyond the hook, allowing you to not waste time getting the regression as well as making it cross map and faster, while with pop the gen might finish while walking over.
As for the nerf, it certianly deals with the snowball the perk which is nice and keeps it as an opton for agressive killers, like it was before, but it is defiently a harsh nerf. With healing changes and it's competition being nerfed it'll stil be viable and it keeps it core function however so I imagine it'll be fine.
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I always play Executioner with range and power duration as they work perfectly with my playstyle or going for a lot of shots. I also always play Doctor with range as I feel like it's the most important addon in his kit (some people perfer discpline but I find good prediction and timing does a similar job) and finally when I do play Cannibal I use primer bulb as it allows me to be super agressive with my power usage.
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@AnchorTea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384622#Comment_3384622
Those characters are NOT mid-tier.
So you see there's a very simple fact you're missing. If the killer can play without slowdown they're obviously not midtier, and if they're midtier or lower they have to use slowdown of course. Reguardless of what killer you suggest this list won't change because op obviously wanted to make a 200iq take about how they define midtier.
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3 gen strats (namely ones you enforce from the start of the match) are going to be about as effective as before and that's nothing to do with the killer. Any killer with area denile can chuck on overcharge and call of brine and set up extremely strong 3 gens, you won't have 40 minuet matches as much any more but that's because she'll kill you in 20 now using this build as she has better chase. The removal of absurdly long matches is good but the other frustating part of 3 gens, the killer not actively engaging with surviviors for long periods of time and only playing half the map, is less to do with skull merchant and more to do with the two perks mentioned earlier. Given how this is a small patch though and she had some other problems, these are healthy and good changes to the issue and her but I don't feel like they're the final changes to 3 genning as a whole.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374564#Comment_3374564
-"Survivors can't see the killer's prestige, cosmetics, power (item) in the lobby."
Sadly this is not true because DBD has terrible cheat protection.
-"I have noticably worse games when the killer dodges, which is why I consider lobby dodging to ruin the game for all 5 players"
When I play killer I agree that the lobby is usually weaker if multiple people dodged. What to know why? I can easily tell who is solo and who is not. It's just a fact that solo queue players are not as strong as a SWF.
All things equal why would I play against a 4 man SWF? Convince me.
"You mess up the game for others" - too bad..... SWF messes up the game for me.
Why would I play against a lobby with 4 items when I can "shop" around and get a lobby with 0-2 items instead? Lobbies with fewer items are weaker than lobbies with 4 items (all things being equal).
When it comes to high tier players the game is rigged against the killer. DBD isn't balanced for efficient survivors and when I play killer I play around the limitations. So I will definitely dodge any lobby that looks like it might be "Sus".
The ideal lobby I don't dodge is 2 people in a swf and 2 solo players with 1-2 items or 1-3 weak items. I could "not" lobby dodge but then I get more frustrating games and fewer points per hour.
Before we address lobby dodging we need to address : Making the game fair to killer first. A knee jerk reaction that to fix the fact that Nurse and Blight reign supreme over every other archetype would be to give all the "lesser" killers MMR caps. As an example softcap the trapper's MMR at like 1200 MMR. If you keep winning you can go up but you are hardcapped at say 1400 MMR. Do this for all the killers that are not Nurse/Blight.
That way we have the best players always playing the best 2 killers. In the following year you take the time and effort to make every killer in the game within 15% of the power of Nurse and Blight. Then you remove the MMR caps.
For the last point that is a terrible idea. Every time a killer is buffed, the meta is shaken up you have to change the MMR cap. Viability isn't just fixed it changes on regions and addons so does the soft cap change per region? You also ######### up your data making future changes harder to judge. At that point if you're putting in all this effort it's better to make some tangable change and just improve those killers more directly, rather than a change that requires more work down the line.
Also for the first point, most people aren't cheating and if they are I doubt they care about dodging strong killers.
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I find most lobby dodging a bit silly. I've had prestige 0s loop me all game and p100s play worse than average, higher prestige is usually better but I find not signficantly. Items are strong but if you're too worried bring good addons and make it equal, if you think they're a swf remember most swfs are friends chilling at night not comp squads. I just feel like somes killers have this intense fear of losing or survivors so much that they'll do eerything in their power to tailor the match to their liking.
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Ordered within tier. I like powers that do multiple things or focus a bit more on the macro rather than chase. B and up are killers I like regually while C tier I mostly play just for dailies, nurse I do for archieves and that's it because I don't feel like it's dbd with her and my hearing is fudged half the time so spirit is bad for me but I like her concept.
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Allowing survivors to be self sufficent is very powerfull in any factor. By performing the action yourself you gain several benefits:
- You save time by not finding a teammates.
- You avoid grouping up making spreading pressure harder.
- Your teammate can use the saved time to do a gen or help someone else.
- You can recover from bad situations where everyone else has to do something.
This is true for not only healing but unhooking (deliverence) and picking up (unbreakable). Medkits are the strongest version of this as they're both fast and reliable. CoH is also good however it loses out on a lot of efficency if you only need one heal and you replace needing to find a teammate with finding a totem, in matches where your team needs to heal a lot it's good but otherwise it's outclassed by a few good medkits. Notablly unbreakable needs you to be slugged and deliverence needs you to unhook so some team play is needed for these options to be set up usually.
CoH is probably fine as a whole due to the inital time investment, although it's quite polarising for killer. Blights, bubas and Weskers can just commit to chase or don't care too much about people being healthy so it's managable, while wraith, dredge and sadako need people injured and to spread injuries to win (although wraith and dredge at least have the mobility to find the totem first). Medkits need to be slower with their heals, reliable self suffency is already good so I don't see why they should also get the benefit of being twice as efficent baseline in terms of time.
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Biggest issue is totem spawns, I could see someone bringing this and mst gens not being in range of a boon. I like the idea but I'm not sure if it would work pratically. Assuming you can apply it looks balanced, you spend 14 seconds blessing a totem (not accounting for time to find) so that the gen doesn't regress. This trade is advantagous, which it should be, and does help against 3 gens (as it forces the killer away from the gens, kind of giving them a 4th spot to patrol) while not completely invalidating the strength of them as they force the survivor to give up time each time it's set and the killer can defend without regression is they're agressive enough.
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@TigerSnake said:
I don’t even think they’ve fixed the wagon on DDS yet either.
I'm not sure about Ormond but the wagon thing has exised at least since the meta shakeup and it's possible for the killer to get up their from when I did it back then.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
Are we just gonna forget that the devs and the community said that the gap between swf and solo will be reduced AND the weaker killers will be given some buffs to compensate? Now that survivors have recieved plenty of information about the whole match when will the weaker killers receive the said buffs to compensate? Or is Bhvr just expecting us to forget that over time? Or are killers not allowed to complain because they received 0.2 secs pallet kicking speed last year?
P.S Yeah i know solos aren't at the same level as swf yet, but you can't be delusional and lie that these tons of information don't massively boost survivors (especially gen speed).
I mean there has been 1 patch since the change which was a chapter, not usually the chapter for balance changes. I'd imagine we'd here something the next midchapter and then something bigger in the midchapter afterwards (as they'd have more time to evaluate the changes from the HUD and balance for precisely).
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Ah yes those filthy gen rushers with their one gen speed perk from their adept and 2 reassurence's that work well with gen rushing you sure showed them. Hopefully next match you can beat those hordenous brown items they may dare to bring (I'm not excusing their language but this feels like a weird brag if it's one).
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I got worse and better, as you can now hack a drone while you have a claw trap. I'd personally like hacking too be more effective here though, maybe the drone doesn't return for 20 seconds so she can't repeatidly set them up as well around the gens (I understand she's weak and needs buffs else where but weak and unhealthy aren't mutually exlcusive).
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@ThanksForDaily said:
They don't kill switch Spirit because 2 killers being killed switched is embarrassing for the game whatever the devs say.
They've done it before with Nurse (softlocking on grab) and Clown (could make invigorated permanent). I believe this was the time they kill switched boons for crashing peoples' games when set up.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367836#Comment_3367836
atm it is for Skull Merchant. I wanted to give her something that would fit her at least a bit (lore / theme) since she is like predator hunter that hunts her targets (obsession).
I could easily come up with some build for her power (gen defense), but that is exhausting (long games) and Survivors hate it.
Fair I like going for strong chase builds with her, I've been using spirit fury + enduring personally. Given the killer I stand by what I said, you could always replace the last perk with some slowdown as I feel like the other 3 perks do what you're looking for anyway but that's a taste more than anyhting.
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Personally I'd like some slight changes to the maps. Some maps are too weak for survivor while some are too good for killer. Midwhich has extemely weak loops for survivor making it very hard to win (while having horendous hook spawns and encourging holding w making it less fun for killer) and Dead Dwag has very small gen spreads making playing defensive very strong as killer as multiple 3-gen exist (while encouraging them to never interact with the main building due to how strong it's, helping enforce a 3-gen meta on that map). Other maps have similar problems however these stand out as they have factors that make them unfun as killer and survivor. Suffopit and Resting place are similar in this reguard too.
On the otherside, many large maps are also very safe making it so killers struggle to win in both the 1v1 and 1v4 (prime examples being Borgo and Garden of Joy), large maps are fine but they need weaker loops to be balanced (such as Sheltered Woods or Blood Lodge). I would also like to mention Coal Tower. If you told me coal tower had an average kill rate I'd believe you, if you told me Blight and Nurse have twice the kill rate as Pig or Legion on that map I'd believe you. The extremly strong interconnected loops of the map makes it boarderline unplayable for killers with weak chase powers while if the killer has a strong chase power and can shut down the loops the survivors suddenly have nothing going for them on this very small map, it's extremly polarising and matches feel like they're won or lost more by killer selection here than anywhere else.
I personally don't think maps are generally too killer or survivor sided (it's worth noting that maps are designed to help survivors protect themselves) but are too polorised in their strength to be considered balanced, I'd like to see more of a focus on single map realms in this reguard as they're easier to abuse with map offerings.
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@Saiph said:
Trapper does not need a buff. He's already extremely obnoxious. People are just stuck with this myth that "Trapper is a weak M1 killer" because they blindly quote Otzdarva, but they don't realize that 1) Otz rates killers without add-ons, and 2) DH nerf was massive for Trapper.
Trapper is one of the most addon dependent killers. If you play him without addon he's weak as #########, but with his best add-ons he's an A-tier killer at least. So if they buff him they should nerf his strong add-ons first (iri stone especially), otherwise prepare for a rise in DCs.
Yay and nay, trapper could do with slight buff to make him more consistent but I would stay trapper should never be meta. Sad to say about the face of the game but a Trapper who could actually do his job would be obnoxious, never touch the grass and never vault windows and half the pallets are unusable and oh wow now basement is trapped and we can't rescue them. I don't believe Trapper isn't too far off a good spot and DH change was great for him (not saying DH isn't good but trapper deals with it quite nicely) and the perk changes to more passive options for killer helps him too but some small buff could be nice. I wouldn't mind having traps spawn a bit closer together (mostly on larger maps) and a slight increase to base setting speed to make him a bit quicker at the start and help him get going.
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Which killer is it for? If you want to get nemesis keep enduring it saves you a lot of time and will help in chase a lot. Play with your food is cute but leeds to a slight contradiction where you want to chase the obession (gain afoot) but don't, NO:ED and devior hope are two other good perks with haste for the speed or as you said brutal/fireup can work quite nicely with the other options.
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@Skill_issue said:
almost all of the maps in this game are oversaturated with safe loops(all 3 farm maps/knights map/the game) or are big maps sizes(red forest/springwood/macmillan/crotos)...i feel the only one that actually benefits killers is dead dawg and even that has a busted building
I get excited when the devs say map rework and then realize map rework that still favors survivors even the new sheltered woods remake is adding more loops for survivors
To better understand this you need to understand that maps should favour the survivors more to an extent. If maps don't have loops the surviviors have literially no way to defend themselves, the killer has their power to help them kill and the survivors have their maps to defend themselves. If a map had a complete lack of safe loops, was very small and had great visability so they couldn't hide survivors would never win. I'm not saying this to excuse maps that are too good for the survivors or extreme cases of map rng but to say that all maps should have aspects where they favour the survivors and that killer sided maps are the ones where the benefits the survivors have are most managable, with aspects that favour killers being the exception not the rule. It's also worth noting that no map favours all killers because all killer have different powers, Midwhich is generally a killer sided map but a killer like huntress benefits from it a lot less than Wraith because of the power of holding W there and a lot of line of sight blockage hurt huntress but benefit wraith.
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Honestly I've been liking her too, she ought to be a tad stronger but in terms of initial impressions it nice to have another set up killer. Demo had a bit of set up which was nice but it was by no means the focus of the kit so someone like this is a nice change of pace and unlike hag she can just do M1 which is nice. Thankfully I seem to not be one of these "top mmr hell" killers so I'm able to enjoy her without having a panic over her being too weak, personally been using corrupt, enduring, spirit fury and leverage to make here work as you don't really need infomation perks.
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I will like to add part of the value of SB isn't the raw distance but the imediate value of it. Many gens in unsafe areas are make significantly better is you have SB to carry you to the tile, conversely it's a very good perk against many high mobility or stealth killers who don't give you much time to run when they approach your gen. In terms of raw distance yes it's ~7 seconds but a good player can always use that to get to shack or avoid a hit where they otherwise may not be able to making it much more.
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I mean a lot of tiles become unloopable if the survivors are slower (imagine if the killer had a perminent play with your food stack, or survivors had full Mastermind infection) so people would be encouraged to not use loops and hold w or pre drop pallets instead. Making survivors slower doesn't discourage holding W as much as it does looping so people would still do it as the perfered option.
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The key difference between this and other killers who have been killswitched is she still works largely the same. She doesn't crash or softlock the game, her power doesn't bug out in a way that's completely unbeatable and although her primary counter doesn't work sometimes it still does work a lot of the time. Is this to say I enjoy playing against spirit generally or want to excuse the bug, no. Is this saying that kill switching a killer peple enjoy because of what is escentially a gameplay bug they have no control over would be fair, no. Ultimately this isn't a bug people can abuse because it just is active when playing the killer and playing as and against the killer still remains mostly intact while it exists.
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I wouldn't mind seeing an addon pass for some killers with less interesting addons too, lower piroity than weak/srong addon sets though. Almost all of Oni's addons are just variations of other addons and none of them have particually interesting effects, I've never looked at an non-iri Oni addon and went "oh, I wonder how to make that work" and experimented with unique builds because of it. I'm not asking for Freddy levels of experimenting, who has very few useful addons then a ton of interesting but impartical gimicks, but a good balance between fun addons that need you to experiment and addons that are reliably good is important. WIthout these more unique addons people are encouraged less to try out new builds and get into this repeatative play style with all the addons they use, reducing the longevity of the killer's play time.
As for weak addon sets Freddy, Hillbilly and Nemesis probably have the weakest sets overall. Nemesis has a few more good addons that some people give credit for (sometimes saying none are good) but overall is lacking still. And for the killers with addons sets too strong I'd say Blight, Spirit and Myers (mostly just tombstone and infinate T3).