Rhoska
Rhoska
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The problem is Survivors communicating.
Because that cant be prevented, the only course of action is to balance/design so that that communication provides as little advantage/leverage as possible.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884119#Comment_1884119
It's like saying change DS, but not knowing a fair change to it that allows it to stop tunneling but not be abused .
How old are you?
Your only suggestion was in-game chat, which just MAKES CONCRETE THAT SURVIVORS COMMUNICATE, EVEN IF THEY ARENT ON VOICE?
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884107#Comment_1884107
can you think of how you'd change these 3 examples? Because you need to think about the limitations and actual realist expectations your putting on them. They need to find solutions to a lot of perks, skills and add ons. And do you have any idea how they would do this?
Its not my job to figure out how to do it.
Im pointing out that inorder to do so, it requires a complete shift in the design/development philosophy to specifically account for the fact that Survivor communication is the problem, and that perks etc need to be balanced/implemented around reducing the leverage/advantage of that to as low a level as possible.
As I stated earlier, Doctors Madness effect is one example of how Killer has an affect on Survivors that is NOT mitigable by communication, because it intrinsically effects the Survivor in such a way that communication about it is irrelevant.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884099#Comment_1884099
But how?
For example let's take hex perks, aside from removing totems how do we balance them?
For insidious-how do we change that?
For trapper and Hag and other people with things that you place-freddy, Demi. How do we change them?
"But how?"
By asking "Can this perk be made useless by Survivors communicating?"
If so, then change it in its effect to something that CANNOT be mitigated by communication between Survivors.
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@Freddy96 said:
I can be the most toxic POS but i am always willing to get sacrificed for free by the killer if he played well or he was kinda noob. The issue is that killers are often toxic even when noone is playing toxic so as usual if you play like a jerk don't expect any kindness by your opponents
That has a lot of contradictions there, in it, on your part... Im surprised you dont seem to see that yourself.
Do you play Killer how much?
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884077#Comment_1884077
so what exactly are you saying? Make tracking perks better? Make it so skill checks are harder? Make it so that killers like doctor are even better? All these would negatively effect solo queue.
Design/develop with the specific issue in mind, that perks etc should have effects which cannot be overstepped-negated by communication between Survivors.
The problem is Survivor communication. Since that cannot be removed, the only remaining option is to design/develop in such a manner that that communication has as little impact on the match as possible.
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@NoelleMina said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884028#Comment_1884028
As long as it doesn’t break the rules, I agree with your first statement in a way.
However, there’s a chance (although slim) to take a risk and save your teammates from basement Hags, Bubbas, Trappers, what have you.
When someone literally and physically can’t go for a save at all, (until Victor gets down, but who knows how long that’ll take) that’s where I scratch my head.
In that case, I don’t think this is intended. But who knows
Thats what Twins is though, intrinsically.
A Killer that has two physical presences, but only one of which is "active" at any given time.
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SWF may or may not make stupid mistakes when they prioritize themselves/each other over non-SWF Survivors.
Thats impossible to affect or balance around.
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PS: There is no way to remove SWF from using 3rd party voice comms.
Its impossible to detect, stop, block in anyway by Steam, DbD or anything else.
As such, the deliterious effects of SWF communicating OUTSIDE of the game, has to be remedied by balancing/design internally of it in such a way, that the leverage advantage of Survivors communicating is reduced.
That means making Killer Perks (and Survivor perks) of such a nature, that the ability to communicate does not affect them.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884062#Comment_1884062
Then how do we balance swf, because I can't see a reasonable answer said except remove them. If you cannot come up with a suggestion , then what else are we meant to do except remove them as they destabilise the whole game as we all pretty much agree. And removing them would annoy a lot of people, especially console (that's where I see most swf)
read
@Rhoska said:
For example:
Doctors Madness effects on Skill Checks is something that SWF on voice comms cant counter, as the effects are intrinsic to the Survivor themself.
Thats the kind of balancing/design needed to mitigate against the COMMUNICATION that SWF on voice comms can leverage, which makes huge swathes of Killer perks/abilities etc, and many Killers, largely irrelevant and not worth slotting, much less investing into.
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For example:
Perk descriptions may vary from in-game descriptions for reasons explained here.Perks support Mouse-over functionality (desktop version only): hovering over the modifier words with your cursor will reveal the values behind them.On mobile browsers, the values are displayed in small text after the modifier words. Desktop users experiencing issues with the mouse-over may temporarily switch to mobile view at the bottom of an Article page. Knock Out is a teachable Unique Cannibal Perk . It can be unlThis is rendered completely useless, when Survivors are able to communicate where the slugged Survivor is (despite there being no in-game indication), whether by voice comms, or even worse, if there was an in-game chat.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884042#Comment_1884042
Read my messages again
IM SAYING THEY CAN BUFF KILLERS AND THEIR PERKS DAMMIT
if you allow for harder gameplay but counterbalance with killer buffs and perk buffs (longer gen speeds, undying goes back etc..) then you can balance it.
It's not like cutting off the killers legs, it's like giving survivors a Pogo stick whilst killers could potentially get a rocket
I read and understand what you mean, but its categorically false, for the reasons I have stated above.
The PROBLEM IS SURVIVORS COMMUNICATING/COOPERATING WHAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO/BE AWARE OF IN-GAME.
Adding an in-game chat would make that EVEN WORSE.
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You aren't understand what the problem is
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For example:
Doctors Madness effects on Skill Checks is something that SWF on voice comms cant counter, as the effects are intrinsic to the Survivor themself.
Thats the kind of balancing/design needed to mitigate against the COMMUNICATION that SWF on voice comms can leverage, which makes huge swathes of Killer perks/abilities etc, and many Killers, largely irrelevant and not worth slotting, much less investing into.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884033#Comment_1884033
Yes, in some aspects it's worse, but to allow them to truly balance killer against swf this would need to be implemented. Because then the perks can be buffed/ other perks nerfed to the necessary degree.
Adding an in-game chat just even further enables Survivors to share information, coordinate perks, actions etc, that they now cannot/are not aware of. It specifically makes the existing problem of communication between Survivors MULTIPLICATIVELY WORSE.
Your "solution" would be like cutting off one of the Killers legs, so that they can be "balanced" around jumping around on only one leg.
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Balancing needs to happen around making Killer perks operate in a way, that possible Survivor communication is NOT an effective counter to them.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884015#Comment_1884015
Didn't you read the last sentence, about how killers could be balanced around it. Imagine old undying coming back because swf is now permanently an option in every game friend or not. Or no more nerfs to things like pop or other killer perks. Maybe even a bp boost to BBQ. The things they could do to balance it would be endless, and to be honest I'd rather that then have an instant loss against swf. This system allows for it all to be accounted for and therefore balance the game state
The problem with SWF on voice comms, is that they can communicate things they otherwise would not be able to/aware of.
Adding an in-game chat makes that even worse, and would enable that to even non-SWF non-voice Survivors.
Your suggestion directly makes that issue WORSE.
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Physical blocking is innate to a Killer.
In the case of Twins, Charlotte remains motionless (and blocking) while Victor is active, and vice-versa.
Its not unintended.
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@redsopine00 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1883754#Comment_1883754
They only did one gen before all dead because they kept trying to loop the basement
The "lobby" is the pre-game screen where the Killer sees the Survivors and what items they have equipped.
You cant "destroy" anything in the lobby.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1883762#Comment_1883762
what if they implemented a chat feature, so to even the grounds between solo and swf. Then balanced killer around that?
Just some food for thought
That makes no sense, as it makes the communication between Survivors even more enabled, and the situation worse for Killers, as it bypasses perks etc.
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The game was not designed with Survivors SWF using voice comms, in mind.
Now however, it has to be changed as such.
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"destroy lobby"
wut?
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Leftist logic.
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Well, you cant expect much of people that butt-dance. They just arent capable of anything more.
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The experience they report is accurate, and it is also my experience most matches.
Voice comm Survivors are a cancer on this game.
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I dodge immediately with no mercy if I even remotely suspect its a SWF on voice group.
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I 50/50 Survivor/Killer.
Purely from the inherent difference in intensity of focus/attention/low allowance for mistakes etc quotient when playing Killer, I have zero concerns about Killers being "over buffed". The frustration Killer side, on meta-stacked Survivors, especially in SWF on voice comms, is leaps and bounds above that of what Survivors experience if a Killer runs meta-stacked perks.
Also, Survivors, as being 4 that share the same goal, whereas the Killer has to achieve it alone, just is no comparison at all.
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Thus my only concern regarding balance and the positive experience of the game for both Survivors and Killers, is solely on as equal and "fair" matchmaking as is possible.
If the matchmaking works, the rewards/frustrations/difficulty will also be largely equal, on both sides.
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PC gaming journalism, ironically, died with the rise of the internet.
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@FreakPrince said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1857150#Comment_1857150
No one is making any threats, we are simply stating facts. If you wanna start an us vs them conversation then start another thread.
The killer needs 4 survivors, so it’s simple logic. Whether you like it or not survivors are the biggest share of the player base, and half of them play with friends.
By the way, I play mostly solo.
"The killer needs 4 survivors, so it’s simple logic. Whether you like it or not survivors are the biggest share of the player base, and half of them play with friends."
That share relies on the much smaller Killer ratio, or they and their SWF will have no matches to play.
So as "important" as the SWF factor is, its SIMPLER to keep the 4:1 ratio of KILLERS satisfied, so that the matches populate quickly for those 4 SWF players.
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SWF is fine, in and of itself.
Its the 3rd party voice comms they use, that are a problem.
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Since the Killer point is to kill, and Survivor point is to escape, the break-even of a "equal" match, is 2K.
2K is Tie. 3K is Killer Win. 1K is Survivor Win.
Gens dont really figure into that, and are incidental.
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1859645#Comment_1859645
Heyyyy! Don't just stalk! How about you come inside and I can get you set up with something.
*Stalking intensifies*
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*stalks staring through dark window*
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Also the UI elements being all over the field, rather than consigned to the lower area as before, breaks immersion and obstructs vision of the beautiful environment in the game.
In actual gameplay, you rarely have to look down, except to look at UI elements, or if you suspect a Survivor is below your eyeline.
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Its countrintuitive, that at the same time as map graphics etc are being updated/improved, and also more people with better PCs are gaming, that UI elements would be used to OBSTRUCT viewing of that game environment, in the visual field below the bottom, which is where players spend most of their time focusing their eyes.
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Jesus, the new HUD breaks every single rule in the book of UI design/layout, face first, on its way to the bottom.
People actually get PAID for that?
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@Waldbeere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858941#Comment_1858941
They're collecting data of your gameplay in the background for some month.
Sounds very dubious.
Im highly doubtful this will produce more "equal" matching.
Frankly, to me, this seems just like an cover for changing the matchmaking, so that the lacking of Killers which leads to long ques for Survivors (especially SWF), especially at red rank, is now "hidden" behind the excuse that the algorithm is unknown, secret and opaque.
TLDR: The system will instead shove any and all available Killers into as many matches as it can, regardless of rank/skill differentials, just to get the ques populated.
PS: When will this take effect?
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What system/metrics is it using, if not rank?
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@Xayrlen said:
Imagine playing a co-op game and expect people to not cooperate and not communicate.
Notice, that there is no in-game chat for survivors. If it was intended for them to be able to communicate (on PC) there would be an in-game survivor chat. There isnt. That console doesnt have one either, carries this same point, regardless of the lack of keyboard, that survivor communication is not something that is planned for/included into design considerations.
And that the entire set of Aura related perks is specifically to the purpose of either providing or denying information, which when using Voice comms, become utterly irrelevant.
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SWF on voice are "killing" Killers out of playing the game. There is a whole slew of Killer characters that are largely non-viable vs SWF on voice, and just turn that match into a circus for the Survivors, at the expense of the Killer.
They are thus literally destroying their own enjoyment of this game, because of how they "want" to play it.
Their "enjoyment" of the game with SWF on voice, trumps that of the enjoyment of Killers of the game vs them.
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Mercilessly leave any lobby you suspect has SWF on voice in it, and leave them waiting there for another 10mins.
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It wont fix the voice comms issue, but if more Survivors swap to playing Killers instead of SWF on voice, that will fix the que problem.
Inversely, the more Killers get sick of this, and swap to playing Survivor instead, the worse the que problem gets.
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PS: Add to this the irony, that is primarily Killers that buy DLC, so as to get access to new Killers (and their unique playstyle/features) whereas Survivor DLC is only cosmetic, and they are interchangeable. (Learnable Perks can be easily aquired through Shrine) So it SHOULD behoove DbD devs, to ensure that Killer population remains high and satisfied, even if its at the expense of SWF on voice groups.
If they cant keep even a meager 4:1 ratio of "satisfied" Killers playing, its only downhill from there, as then Survivors also will get bored as they cant get matches, and ESPECIALLY SWF on voice groups, whom will just go play another co-op game, rather than queing.
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Just go AFK. Make a sandwich or something.
If they choose to waste time, they are combined wasting 4x as much time, as you are.
Thats also time in which they wont be joining another match, and causing problems for the next Killer there.
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Í favor Doctor.
This because Madness and addon effects cant be mitigated by SWF teams using voice comms.
For survivor Claudette with the "budget" camouflage clothes.
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I want Pinhead.
I will give you ALL my money for Pinhead.
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My theory, is that towards rank 1, there are significantly more SWF groups using voice comms.
The advantage of that to them is enormous, and oversteps many perks Killers can select.
That bends the odds heavily in favor of Survivors, and especially vs weaker Killers.
So the result is that the closer you get to rank 1, the less Killers there are playing that want to subject themselves to that disadvantage (and the toxic crap SWF get up to), and just dont play, thus skewing not onle the que times to find a Killer for a team, but also skewing the actual rank compositions of that match.
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say gg, bg, or nothing at all.
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Buried Underground Challenge in Tome I is not working.
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@cluedup_survivor1988 said:
I don't care who you are weather survivor or killer if you body block me on purpose to block pallet use you are getting a report, it's skewed enough towards the killer as it is without them resorting to underhand tactics like that.
What do you guys think?
You are utterly wrong about absolutely everything in that post.
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@mintchapstick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1790837#Comment_1790837
Yeah, red rank isn't fun for anyone. Both the killers and the survivors agree that red ranks are the worst to play at. The matches are boring & sweaty.
Red should be matched against red. Period.
It is far worse when reds are matched on either killer or survivor side, into non-red matches.
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I have roughly same hours, ranks, and experience the same (albeit my killer/survivor ratio is inverse of yours).
I suspect that why green killers are matched against red and purple survivors so frequently, is:
A) There simply are insufficient numbers of red killers playing, so the system escalates to adding them to red/purple survivor matches, so as to populate that match. Red killers simply stop playing as much, when they constantly go up against red SWF survivors, where the odds are heavily in their favor.
B) Also, survivor friends joining a match together skews the matchmaking algorithm by forcing those slots to be allocated for those friends (and thus excluding solo players of green rank from populating that list vs a green killer). Sometimes the system seems to allocate as an "average" among survivors ranks vs killer rank, but not often.
C) As to how killers have gotten over this hump/deadland into red ranks, I think most of them that have done so, did so previously in a time in the games population demographics, when they went up against green/purple survivors respectively, and thus "naturally" progressed into red killer, and they havent lost so many matches since that they would have down-pipped back out of red.
TLDR: Imo, the matchmaking system should strictly match survivors/killers ONLY of nigh equivalent rank. Yes, that would mean that red SWF survivors (or solo) would have to wait far longer for a match, but this would naturalize itself, as instead if they play their red killers (which should generate match quickly), it will thus facilitate more red vs red matches for ALL of red rank.
So instead of pandering to red survivors to get fast matches (unfairly vs non-red killers), FORCE them to either wait longer for a match, or play their red killer, which thus makes it possible for red vs red matches, for all.