Rezblaze
Rezblaze
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@Trollthem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1235217#Comment_1235217
Then i don't understand your point , you want to nerf your main side and buff an already broken side?
Keep at it, you'll get there eventually.
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@Trollthem said:
Yeaah sure nerfing the killer again shall we? Its true that Killers have so much time to lose with wiggle mechanics .
So it'll be easier for the survivor to escape but killers have to pressure the gens at the same time ?
Bad idea .
I'm a Killer main.
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Hiding it in more interesting places would be nice. But I don't think they should be hidden under a box in a corner of the map nobody goes to.
One of the most thrilling games for me was a hopeless game against a Huntress with Lullaby. Of course I'm with Rank 20s so after several hooks it was like a mini Ruin.
We spent the game searching for it, avoiding Huntress, and eventually we got it cleansed. We lost, but it was tense and fun.
It's actually shocking to me how often survivors don't actually want to have fun but want to hold M1 on the generator and complain about why the gameplay is so boring.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1233584#Comment_1233584
Sorry but I don't get your point. Of course you don't want to avoid Leader, a survivor perk that hurts survivors doesn't make sense. So yes, you can activly follow a survivor to get the effect but that isn't necessarily useful because Leader doesn't affect the survivors main objective, generators. The linger effect is there to make these perks a bit less useless in my opinion, but they are pretty weak anyway.
I can imagine the heartbeat stopping people from healing because of Nurse's Calling, but from doing gens? Not in high ranks.
If my calculation is correct, the doctor has a terrorradius about 54 meters with distressing and double calm. With such a big Terror radius and a linger effect the AoE perks would be (almost) unavoidable on some maps. To avoid that Situation you would have to cap the range instead of making it dependable on the terror radius, which would add other problems and kill some interesting interactions.
I agree with you that the AoE perks are underwhelming but I would rather like to see their effects buffed instead of making them linger.
The point is, the effects are made more useless by the fact that when someone is in your terror radius, they're either in chase, hiding... Usually doing the things that these perks try and punish.
If the effects lingered for just 10 or 15 seconds after leaving a terror radius or would give it a nice boost. These perks aren't weak, just way too niche.
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@SunaIIanu said:
I think the reason might be the range. Survivor perks like Leader only work in an 8m range while the killer perks work in the terror radius, which can be really big with perks and some addons.
Yes but with Leader you aren't actively trying to avoid the AoE. In fact you're able to follow it around despite its small radius.
The heartbeat can often times cause people to stop healing, stop repairing generators, or stop using items, which makes these perks useless as the mere psychological effect of the heartbeat straight up prevents these issues.
It needs an extra bite to justify a perk slot.
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Pop is fine. It works as it describes, and your change would make it do way too many things at once.
I like your idea with Bamboozle. Maybe it blocks when a survivor is within a certain meter radius, like a 5/4/3 meter radius from the window. It would be a nice buff and good for mindgames. Though the problem is the same as before; people who realize you have it will make note of it and it'll only be useful a few times a match. Still, its better than where its at.
I also like your idea with Tinkerer. Here is my proposition for some other perks:
- Blood Warden
Activates when the Exit Gates are powered. When an exit gate is opened, the timer will start.
- Beast of Prey
Whenever you chase someone for at least 10 seconds, gain a stack for a total of 10 stacks and become Undetectable. For each stack, you remain undetectable for 5 seconds after ending a chase for a total of 50 seconds.
- Monstrous Shrine
Whenever you have someone hooked in the basement, the following take effect:
-- Escape attempts have a 0% chance of succeeding.
-- Entity progress in the basement is 15/20/25% faster.
-- Whenever someone is rescued from the basement, all generators are blocked by the Entity for 20/25/30 seconds.
- Unrelenting
Missed attack cooldowns are reduced by 25/30/35%. Additionally, the killer no longer makes a noise when beginning their attack.
- Cruel Limits
-- Match selects an obsession.
-- Whenever you are in a chase with the obsession, all vault location that the obsession goes through are blocked by the Entity for all survivors for 120/180/240 seconds.
-- The effect ends when the obsession is downed.
- Mindbreaker
-- Whenever a generator is worked on, Mindbreaker applies.
-- While Mindbreaker is active, every Skill Check hit by a survivor gives them the Exhaustion status effect for 3/4/5 seconds, stacking to a total of 20 seconds of Exhaustion.
-- While working on a generator, any and all status effects remain on the survivor for the duration of working on the generator.
- Coulrophobia
Whenever a survivor enters your Terror Radius, their healing speed is reduced by 60/70/80%. When a survivor leaves your terror radius, this effect lingers for an additional 10 seconds.
- Unnerving Presence
Whenever a survivor enters your Terror Radius, their chance of triggering skill checks increases by 5/10/15% and reduces the skill check zones by 50/55/60%. When a survivor leaves your terror radius, this effect lingers for an additional 15 seconds.
- Territorial Imperative
Whenever a survivor enters the basement, the Killer gains a sound notification and can see the aura of all survivors in the basement. Additionally, they are inflicted with the Oblivious status effect and have the effect after leaving the basement for 20/25/30 seconds.
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@ZoneDymo said:
so when you heal someone for one health state using For The People, Second Wind does not activate? that makes no sense whatsoever.
I can see it not working if Second Wind were to activate within the broken status effect time of For The People, but if that time has passed it should just work.
Probably just more spaghetti code on the dev's part.
Second Wind has a lot of conditions that don't proc it. It's a badly designed perk, mechanically speaking.
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@jellybird said:
lmao lets just make every single map yamaoka estate ._.
this would be dumbest offering in the game. especially if it COMPLETELY covers tiles.
Why would it be dumb?
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@DwightOP said:
Thankfully not, enough of indoor maps. They are visually cool but gameplay is just horrible on them.
I just figure that we could do more than just having every map look run down and abandoned.
Having a map looking clean and modern is always nice. Its why I like the aesthetic of Haddonfield (and literally nothing else about it).
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Just close your eyes.
Removed it for you.
Joking aside, they've already made the community more separated than ever by making it so Killers and Survivors can't communicate at all. I feel like not having chats between these two groups harms more than helps with toxicity.
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What is the map size 'range' that you're hoping to have every or most maps shrunk down to? What's that 'sweet spot' you're aiming for?
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1209746#Comment_1209746
Yeah, I would also do something like that. Combine 2 brown identical items to get a random yellow, 2 yellow for a random green. 3 green for a random purple and 4 purple for a random pink
I think a crafting system would be neat for killers and survivors with recycling low rarity items.
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Wow, another declaration of this being a dead game.
Such original.
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You're just now noticing this?
Yeah, the community is well aware that these addons barely do jack #########. And they're really high rarity addons. Unless you're going for a slugging build, these usually expire or have barely much time left on them by the time a rescue comes around.
120 seconds is longer than it sounds, but the Grisly Chains in particular is just bad. 90 seconds? By the time a survivor is hit, picked up, hooked, then rescued, there would be like, 20 maybe 30 seconds left on it.
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@Dolls said:
I don't think you should get BP back. You just get free levels.
I think you should be able to exchange 2 for the same color item (at random). Or three for the next color item (at random). Something like that.
If points are balanced right I don't think it should matter.
I mean, what is giving a killer an extra level anyway? It just makes the grind slightly more bearable. Can't have that, can we?
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"Killer is punishing liberal use of pallets, gib pallet back pls."
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Huh. I guess it wasn't such a bad idea after all.
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I made a thread categorizing killer pressure in tiers.
@Rezblaze said:
This is just a fun guide/categorization of what I consider to be various amounts of killer pressure and what their use is.
I'm not exactly a pro at this game, but I do consider myself a veteran, as I've played this game since the Beta release and off and on since then.
I will categorize the various activities that apply pressure in Low Pressure, Moderate Pressure, and High Pressure.
Its important to know that things that are Low Pressure doesn't necessarily mean its bad, but it just means that, on its own, it doesn't help out much, and is more useful when stacked up with other forms of pressure.
LOW PRESSURE
- Generator Regression (Standard, no perks)
Gen regression at its standard rate is low pressure. It can help out to stall gens a bit, especially if left unattended for a long period of time. But its an activity that soaks up time, and if you kick a gen while chasing someone, it can often lead to a chase that's longer than it needs to be. Knowing when to kick and when not to can help increase its pressure potential, but its standard regression without perks isn't too much of a concern for Survivors if they can get on the gen in a reasonable amount of time. Perks like Pop Goes The Weasel increase this pressure immensely.
- Chases
Chases are low pressure. Being in a chase with someone means that you're keeping someone from doing an activity that accomplishes their objective. But with four Survivors left, chases don't cause too much pressure, only multiplying with other kinds of pressure. A chase that goes on for too long can work against the killer, and sometimes it can lose you matches.
- Breaking Pallets (Unsafe)
Breaking unsafe pallets is low pressure. Yes, it subtracts a pallet from the map, but its time that can be used chasing, mind gaming, or getting a hit in. Sometimes, unsafe pallets can help you, especially ones that seem safe but are actually unsafe. Be sure to know which pallets are like that. But also know which ones you have to break as they could be a pest down the line, even as an unsafe pallet, as leaving one for a survivor to run into during a later chase will let them gain more distance on you than they would have otherwise.
MODERATE PRESSURE
- Injuring
Injuring survivors is moderate pressure. When a killer injures a survivor, they have the upper hand in most situations; if they heal, that's time they wasted not doing their main objective. If they don't, that means you can get them down in one shot with a basic attack. This doesn't mean they aren't still a problem, as when they do not heal, they may favor doing their main objective, or favor being injured for access to certain perks like Dead Hard to prolong chases. But in general, its never a bad thing to injure a survivor.
- Hooking
Hooking a survivor is moderate pressure. I was debating on whether to put this on low or moderate, but settled on this. A survivor that's hooked means there's one who cannot participate in any objectives and requires at least one other person to rescue. And if you start a chase with a third person, that's pressure that adds up throughout the match. They're sacrificing a lot of time to get their hooked person back. Though hooking can lead to its own problems as it isn't always viable to hook someone. Sometimes its just better pressure to slug.
- Slugging
Slugging is moderate pressure. Its a risky move with meta perks like Unbreakable around, but often times its a good way to ramp up immediate pressure and increase your snowball potential. It also undeniably slows down the game, as you avoid the trek it takes to hook a survivor, then search to find another survivor. Slugging allows more smoother transitions from no pressure to large amounts of pressure in moments, if played right. I myself tend to slug if I know another survivor is nearby and I can start another chase immediately, meaning one survivor has to pick up the Slugged person, and I'm also starting a chase with someone else. The same pressure with a hook, but more immediate.
- Breaking Pallets (Safe/God)
Breaking safe or god pallets is moderate pressure. Some may argue that breaking safe pallets is high pressure, but the action itself takes a bit to do, and while that's one safe pallet out of the way, some maps have a good amount of safe pallets. Most of the time, these need to be broken out of necessity, not because they grant genuine pressure. Still, it subtracts one safe area the Survivors can loop you at, which puts it at moderate.
HIGH PRESSURE
- Mobility
Standard movement speed, powers, perks, anything dealing with movement speed is instantly considered high pressure in my book. It does a good number of things; it helps with map traversal, searching, shortening chases, easier injuring, faster hooking... Its an all-around good thing to have for any killer. This is why the Billy is so infamous for his insane mobility, and the Nurse as well. Mobility covers all the bases and then some.
- Killing Survivors
Killing just one survivor gives the Killer extremely high pressure. Its one of the few actions the Killer can take against survivors that is permanent for the entire match. Killing one survivor early on can often times guarantee a safe win against most solo queues. This is why tunneling is still a tactic; you, as a killer, would be a fool NOT to eliminate one survivor from the match. There's no incentive not to except for Decisive Strike (another bandaid fix from the Devs). While this tactic is not fun, the pressure it grants the Killer is undeniable, and grants a certain amount of relief and breathing space that few other actions in this game can do.
Anyway, this was a quick run-down for those who are newer, or for those who are just interested in my take on pressure in the game. I hope you enjoy this post, if there's anything I missed do let me know.
Go ahead and give it a read.
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@Marcus said:
Cleansing a totem is 14 seconds and healing in a locker is 8 seconds, so in total 22 seconds.
Assuming you find one right away.
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@Humanarian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1201438#Comment_1201438
No, I was in a constant long chase with one Survivor who had a few un-mindgamable loops with good pallets spawn next to each other. 3 others were constantly on gens.
Well, with this coming patch, hopefully those loops will no longer be. There was a lot of abusable mechanics in this game.
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@Humanarian said:
Greetings, everyone!
I am a rank 7 (now 8) Killer. Today is the first time I have left match on my own accord (a.k.a. rage quit), while playing as Demogorgon. The reason behind that was the combination of 3 things:
1) Despite leveling Demogorgon to 47, I still have not received a Corrupted Intervention perk (it is unlocked), not even it's 1st rank.
2) In just 2-3 minutes after the game has begone, 4 gens have been done somehow.
3) The person I was chasing was extremely lucky with the environment, getting a pallet after a pallet, making it impossible to get a quick down.
Result: 4 gens, 0 hooks in 3 minutes.
So, if there's still any high-level skillful Killer players out there, I would very much like to ask for your advice: how do I deal with the situation like this? That SWF told me I had no pressure, but how am I supposed to apply pressure? I was constantly in one chase or another, I cannot be everywhere at once. And if I let the person I'm chasing go for free, wouldn't that be even less pressure on my side? I really want to know.
I hope this topic won't just sink without an answer. I am really looking forward to receiving a constructive advice.
The only way I can see four gens being completed in three minutes is if each of the four survivors did one gen, and you just never caught them.
Its possible that while you were patrolling gens, they kept sneaking around you and throwing you off. It just means you were outplayed, or you were very bad at productively keeping generators from getting done. As a killer that can teleport (With some setup) I am assuming that it was the former that happened, because you can pretty much teleport to any generator.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
ALMOST EACH GOD DAMN RED RANK SURVIVOR RUNS THIS ######### PERK.
It's too strong and, most importantly, unhealthy for the game:
- It allows expirienced Survivors abuse lots of pallet and windows loops, what they successfully do. Dead Hard at loops is a natural additional Health point
- It makes Survivors feel too safe and comfortable while Injured
- It works too well against certain Killers (jumping through Trapper's traps, avoiding phantasm hits, dodging Nurse's blink attacks)
- Also, it is too unreliable perk due to Dedicated Serves. Lots of time it doesn't work when it should
As I said, this perk needs complete rework. Devs, please, listen.
"Perk works as intended, please nerf."
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Common addons need to be a lot cheaper, or at least make it so that the blood web better guarantees some multiple addons for each item.
I'm sick of getting one medkit addon and fifty flashlight addons.
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How dramatic people get over a 5% penalty on team repairs and actually fixing broken mechanics.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1199014#Comment_1199014
In reference to the many slow-down perks and add-ons. It's an unnecessary change, was anyone complaining about the extra 60s?
You mean the perks that were almost used every match BECAUSE of gen speeds?
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@Deadman316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198792#Comment_1198792
Ok, see here's where I'm having a problem with what some of you all are saying. You want so called God loops taken out, but tunneling and camping is ok? Looping doesn't take skill? Well explain to me how camping takes skill? You killers finally got your way, so now less matches will be won by survivors, because they're not supposed to complete a gen when a killer is not around. Don't worry though, I'm sure the next complaint will be about the Coldwind cornfields, that nerf will be coming soon too.
Never said Tunneling and Camping was okay.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198834#Comment_1198834
Why was this in need of a change? You're eliminating as much as 800 points to "save time" in a game filled with ways to extend the match. At that point, what's another minute? Especially since it allows The Killer to also get points by breaking pallets and even closing the Hatch. If anything, the last Survivor should also be able to struggle to the last drop for those points.
Filled with ways to extend the match, like...?
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198792#Comment_1198792
You don't need to tunnel to win a game at all. I have never camped and never tunnelled and I am always red rank. If you're ######### you need to tunnel and camp but don't make up excuses as to how it is because of the state the game is in. You rely on it because it is easy.
No you don't NEED to but you can't honestly tell me eliminating one person early doesn't allow for the most snowball potential.
People wouldn't tunnel if it didn't reward them.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198121#Comment_1198121
Let's be honest here. Camping and tunnelling has ######### all to do with map size any in game issues. It is ######### players taking the easy ######### option to try and win because they're desperate to win irrelevant of how miserable the game is.
You only have to look ag the numerous threads of "why I camp/tunnel/mori" where they give pathetic excuses. It just makes me cringe, they do it because they're #########. The End. No amount if changes that massively favour killers will ever change that. So let's not pretend it will.
You understand that Killing is the Killer's main objective, right? If you have a problem with the game rewarding killers so greatly for getting a kill and the amount of pressure it provides, blame the devs. Playing the game as it is now (In anticipation for the new PTB) really sets in stone for me how much needed to change and how necessary tunneling usually is if you want to have a winning game.
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This thread just proves that people really don't know what Prove Thyself actually does.
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Loadouts would be very convenient. I would let them take care of balance more first though.
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@PodgeNotRodge said:
It's been a long time coming. But now noticing that most best loops will only about get two uses unless killer permits more. It makes you wonder. What perks are now p and pointless and need changing:
Bamboozle. Definitely pointless, even more so now.
Zenshin tactics. Was only for those with no map awareness.
Cruel Limits. Again, unless you're chasing them at the exact time they pop gen, useless as they dont need to jump windows.
Lithe I thought was good, especially for getting good distance on killer after a loop. Very strong for the best of loops. Now seeing as how most windows will just have a door right beside it, what is the point for vaulting most windows now.
Windows of Oppurtunity. Survivor Zenshin Tactics basically.
I'm sure there are more. My question is, these are perks that just aren't used, where this game should be encouraging to use any set, not just the current meta. Hopefully these perks are taken note on and will be re-worked to be better in the upcoming patch. Hopefully when Candyman comes out, there arent going to be as many problems. But hey, its BHVR here, 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
You're acting like this patch made those perks not viable.
Besides Bamboozle, none of those perks we're viable.
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@FinalSpoon1017 said:
Most of the time when a killer is being toxic to the survivors is because the match before that, they had toxic ppl trolling them, The most toxic players are the survivors, they start toxic killers, what’s even the point in calling someone toxic, the game gave these perks and play styles to play, use them if it gives you the upper advantage, you wanna win right, and survivor mains, just becuz all 4 don’t escape doesnt mean it’s unfair, watch horror movies, normally 1 survivor escapes not everyone, killers are meant to be overpowered, stop claiming that every killer needs a nerf becuz then it’ll be survivors to overpowered which is already starting to happen.
The guy with his one post on the forum wants to tell us why being a Killer is toxic.
Congrats guys, toxicity is solved!
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198109#Comment_1198109
with these hitboxes, even 0,01 seconds can make a difference. sorry but you're wrong.
and there's no timer how long chases should last. they can last 10 seconds or they can last 5 minutes. it depends on how well both sides play. and that is how it just works.
You're absolutely right. Every second counts.
If it takes a Killer until tier 1 Bloodlust to land a single hit, then they aren't playing efficiently. Generators still get done very quickly.
Sorry man idk anyone who genuinely thinks Bloodlust is OP. There's very little reward to it. At best you get a hit. At worst you force a pallet down and get stunned and continue the chase.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Yeah it used to be that killer was the more stressful role. However the past year killer is so relaxing compared to solo survivor. Hell its even less frustrating than 2 man swf.
The map fixes were needed and will help the game but something really needs to be done now about killers that just hang around the hook, camp and tunnel people to death and then have NOED to mop up the rest.
People say the god loops took no skill and they’re right but these hypocrities have no issue with killers that just camp, tunnel and NOED for ez kills. That takes no skill either.
Shame the dev team only listens to one side at this point.
A shame the Devs can't press their magic button that makes them fix all the game issues instantly.
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Can we start closing threads that try and encourage toxic behavior in the community?
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@onlycampers said:
Killers above 10 simply camp, this ipdate will not change that.
The game encourages that, like moris encourages tunneling (havent had a match without a mori for the last 2 weeks).
You can make a map that is an open field with only survivors and no exitst and 500 hooks (similar to maps now, actually) and they will still camp.
Okay what does this have to do with the content we have received? Yes, they haven't fixed tunneling and camping. But we see them fixing issues AT LAST that we've been demanding for years.
Maps are going to be shrunk so that balancing can be done better in them.
This isn't going to fix tunneling and camping but at this rate they are hitting things one at a time.
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195977#Comment_1195977
i know very well how bloodlust works. why would i argue about it otherwise? bloodlust can make a big difference but biased people can't see it. now that loops are nerfed bloodlust is just an overkill
It really doesn't. Chases should end well before Bloodlust is even active. Getting Bloodlust frequently just means you're playing badly.
Which means they probably aren't very good. Which means easy escape.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196952#Comment_1196952
Right? I genuinely can't see how people still think they're doing a bad job with the last updates. I'm still very confident that everything they've done since MoM got fixed was good for game health.
They nerfed Ruin, people freaked out. They said they'd address gens, people didn't believe them. Then we got the one-two punch of toolbox changes+gen efficiency and the map changes people have been begging for for years. I'm truly happy for DbD right now.
I admit, I was among the people who was upset with the Ruin changes. But that was mostly because they didn't really give me a reason to trust them. What, we got a Doctor rework? That's great, but doesn't make up for the Ruin nerf.
I'm redownloading it now, I'm giving the PTB a try, as it seems our feedback is finally being listened to.
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195947#Comment_1195947
yeah, we'll see how healthy these changes are when we don't even get to use our brains just bloodlust every unsafe pallet, no mindgames nothing just mindlessly 4k every match. sounds like so much fun.
until they balance this game correctly without any stupid bias i'm out. can't have fun as survivor and can't have fun as killer neither. for some people easy 4ks might be fun but i prefer a real game instead of a killing simulator on it's easiest mode. uninstalled. hope they fix their damn game and learn to think further than this moment.
Idk any killer that's facing anyone under Rank 15 that gets 4Ks from just Bloodlusting. Stop exaggerating to make your point seem stronger.
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@gantes said:
I really appreciate how the devs managed to make a lot of sensible changes without going overboard.
The co-op repair efficiency changes sound like a good way of solving a lot of early game problems. A lot of the "the gen popped before I could get there" problem stems from 3+ survivors working together on a gen. The only change I really want to make this even better is for survivors always spawning somewhat close together, but this is already good.
The map changes are actually pretty amazing. The only gripe I have with them is Mother's Dwelling not being reduced in size, but I can definitely live with that considering the other map changes coming out. Maps have been the biggest problem with DBD in a long time now, but the map that came with Deathslinger+these changes give me a lot of hope for the future. Also 18 maps getting changed is A LOT, much more than I expected the dev team to tackle at once.
The only few "disappointments", if you could call them that, is that I somewhat expected Bubba to get some love in this patch and Moris to be addressed (because I don't see a world where it's acceptable that they exist in their current state in 2020) but I understand that this patch probably took an enormous amount of work and I'm very happy about it. There's always gonna be negativity in these forums, but I've been genuinely very happy with the direction this game has been taking for the past year. No major blunders since the original Mettle of Man release, in my opinion (which was pretty tame in comparison to the catastrophe that was vanilla Legion). Good job.
While it doesn't address all the major issues we see with this game, it is touching upon some fundamental things over the past two updates, which makes me happy with the direction this game is going.
Sabotaging is back, albeit still not meta, its now something that's viable, even if its situational.
Trapper and Plague both have their powers upgraded to make them more consistent and useful.
Generator Efficiency on Survivors are reduced, thus not completely negating teamwork but making overall generator time and repair for a group less costly.
Hangman's Trick, while nerfed to the ground since PTB, is still in a better place than where it was.
I expect them to address things like a Leatherface rework or Moris/Keys in time. But I say that with more confidence, as I see they are actually making efforts to make changes to the game, rather than some bug fixes and a ritualistic Pig nerf.
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@RaSavage42 said:
For killers is it kills or hooks?
For survivors is it escape or number of gens / heals/ unhooks/ saves
Only speaking on an individual level
Me playing killer... it's hooks (at least bbq stacks)
Me playing survivor... its at least 1 Gen (from start to finish) and at least 1-2 unhooks
As a Killer, a GG is a 4k. Anything less is a varying degree of loss.
As Survivor, a GG is me escaping. Anything less is varying degree of loss.
Not that loosing is necessarily bad. If I loose a game that I enjoyed I don't mind at all. But the game's conditions on what counts as a 'win' or 'loss' is foggy, so I just make it very strict and straightforward for my own sake.
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@Cancan71 said:
I think that some killer and survivor mains have a victim complex, where they see any nerf to their side as the devs being biased against them and then claim that their side is so weak. People also tend to exaggerate a lot. Remember when killers said that they couldn't win without Ruin? Remember when survivors said that DS was useless after its rework? Remember when Doctor was "nerfed"? Remember when sabo was op because of one video of a four man SWF against a brand new killer who didn't know how to counter sabo yet?
That said, I do think this is a good step forward for the game. I'm just gland that Mettle of Man will finally start working as intended.
I'll be honest, as a Killer Main, I used to have that mentality of the Devs not caring about "my side". It felt like that for a while. Hell, the Pig being nerfed every update for no discernable reason was a meme for a while.
Then these last few chapters felt like they were going somewhere with it. With the Plague's Corrupt Fountain, the Trapper's ability not being taken from him, toolboxes, Sabotage being slightly less awful...
For the first time since playing this game I feel like its going forward, not backward or stagnant. Small steps, but if they keep this up, then I will like where this game is heading.
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@Nurgling7 said:
I mean, something more than "Just expect to lose 3 gens quickly at the beginning of the match." would have been nice when they nerfed Ruin.
Does this patch make that change make a whole lot more sense? Absolutely.
Did we have idea or hope this patch was coming? Hell no.
Devs had to bite the bullet on that, as they can't go spouting on about changes they can't guarantee. With the Chapter Update and the coming Mid-Chapter, I'm happy to see them going in the right direction with these changes.
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@Elena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1196776#Comment_1196776
I know right, the developers absolutely hate their own community and want them all to fail!
Real talk though, its amazing how much they've stuck it out for us.
I've had my fair share of criticism of the Developers. And its not like its entirely undeserved, its been four years without clear updates like this. But now we are getting fundamental changes to the gameplay loop which will make it fresh for everyone.
They're knocking one issue at a time, and I love it. They already had my heart with the Trapper changes.
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Oo I like this
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It wouldn't be such a big deal, if the Killer didn't have to rely on every single second and every single faculty to locate and disrupt survivor progress.
Its why I stopped playing. There is so much effort you have to put in to dish out pressure as the Killer. If you tunnel, you're toxic. If you camp a kill, you're toxic. Both of these are the Killer's only forms of permanent pressure, whereas survivors just by doing their main objective gain permanent pressure throughout the match.
These little things would be no issue, if I could just lean back and just chill as killer for once.
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As campy and goofy as that would be, don't think it would fit the game's tone its trying to set.
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There are so many ways one could buff or rework Monstrous Shrine, which only goes to show how terrible the perk itself is. It only works as a slight counter against Slippery Meat, which nobody runs.
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The Devs kinda dug this hole and now that they gotta sleep in it, now we're gonna feel bad?
The Devs get a lot of unneeded hate from people who don't know how games work. Like blaming dedicated servers for literally anything, or bitching to the Devs about bugs. Or thinking that new chase music equals the devs not working on bugs and patches.
I think, whether people are ignorant or not, the Devs do have an issue here; they keep altering everything except what needs to be altered. Most of the toxic issues that arise from the gameplay loop that remains untouched to this day (Tunneling, Camping, Gen Rushing) and are 'fixed' with niche perks that require the Killer or Survivor to play a very particular and unfun way in order to avoid these toxic things.
- Getting Tunneled? Slap on Decisive Strike.
- Don't like getting slugged? Unbreakable.
- Don't like camping? Put on Kindered.
- Hate Gen Rushing? Use 50% of your perk slots to slow down gens a little bit.
- Power Creep? Don't gotta worry about it if every perk that comes out is more niche and situational than the last.
Toxicity is what's killing this game, and it hasn't died because people lack alternatives. Predator: Hunting Grounds is grabbing some gazes, but whether it outdoes DbD is still in the air. I know its grabbing mine, as I now have an alternative in the Asymmetrical games that doesn't look like it will make me want to gouge my eyes out.
Toxicity would have been fixed in this game's early stages. If they had focused on some reworks to the sacrifice mechanics and generator repairs, we wouldn't have any issues now. But they leave these main objectives, which directly rewards toxic plays (Tunneling early, for example, gets an early kill, which is the Killer's only means of permanent pressure on the survivors) and add on bandaid fixes. For tunneling, it really seems all they did was re-implement Decisive Strike as an anti-tunnel perk (Which is better than the absurd place it was in before, believe me) and dust their hands off calling it a day.
I know they (at least, the average Devs) aren't responsible for all these decisions, and they're doing what they can. But their leadership? What are they doing? Where are they driving this ship? Because it feels like there's no vision beyond the next chapter of the game. It doesn't feel like the leadership has a clue where they want this game to be in a year, two years, or five years from now, beyond what the next chapter will be.
With this newest chapter, it feels like they're stepping in the right direction. They made fundamental changes to the Sabotaging mechanic to make it actually viable. Not meta-changing, but its an option I can make a build for now and expect it to work sometimes. Trapper can finally use 10% of his brain, and the Plague's power can be used a bit more strategically now.
But at this point, it feels like these changes are too little too late. Now, for any changes that still push me away from the game, I have to wait for 4 months or the next killer chapter for anything significant. And that isn't fun. And that's why I continue to uninstall after updates; the fundamentals feel like there's no changing it.
I wouldn't even care if this game had a competitive scene or not, I just want to actually reliably enjoy the game for once, whether I win or lose, rather than feel like I'm being told to hold off until the next patch. Because at this point, DbD feels like a ship that's sinking slowly into a pit of slime, and the leadership in charge of these changes are just pumping life into it every few months to keep it going as long as they can before it sinks.
As you said, games die, but not every game is as inherently frustrating as DbD it seems.