Rezblaze
Rezblaze
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- Trapper
The Basement has traps hooked up along the walls hanging from nails, each with various designs for bear traps.
The chests will contain a mess of setting equipment and coils.
Near some of the lockers, there are barrels of explosives for mining. A reference to his mass murder in the mines.
- Wraith
There are bowls realistically placed under the hook of each basement hook, used to collect blood for his various abilities. On the long wall there is a ledge with bowls and jars of mud and soot.
Hanging from the ceiling are dozens of skulls attached to spines, hanging upside down and dangling.
In the chests, there are polished bones the survivor has to sift through.
There is a compact cube, large and settled in a corner with blood seeping from it, referencing his killing of his former boss and taking the compact metal as a trophy.
- Hillbilly
As said above, the entire floor is filled with animal entrails. There are some small piles of farm animal carcasus toward the corners of the room. On the wall are hanging various chainsaw chains.
The chests contain parts and tinker tools, representing the Killer's addons.
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I would love to see the basement customized based on which killer is currently being played.
Like for Huntress, you can see racks of her various kills in there, maybe the bodies of some soldiers where she gets her infantry belts. Some easter eggs to each of their backstories.
For Billy maybe the floor could be riddled with dead corpses of farm animals and entrails.
I'm going to come back with some ideas and share them!
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People have been unsatisfied with the state of things for a while now. They need to relook at all the killers, survivors, and the gameplay loop.
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Everyone keeps talking about how "fun" Slinger is but that isn't answering a vital question; is he viable?
People had fun with every killer came out. But when that haze fades, a couple months down the line, if he isn't viable, he isn't going go be fun anymore.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149735#Comment_1149735
It doesn’t equate though, killers have like what, 15 total addons that can be obtained far easier due to their less cluttered bloodwebs. Survivors have triple that in addition to items, and that’s if you just count one survivor, trying to do EVERY survivor (or hell just 3 of them) is ridiculous. Also seeing as how you taking someone else’s item means you won’t get it’s addons, you’re going to get even less because now the only way to get them is in a bloodweb where you can literally waste 500k and only get one addon you want.
You realize you can stack bloodweb points from both killer and survivor, right? If you're concerned about it, play killer. Or play some games without an item for a bit.
You can literally collect items so easily. Especially if you deliberately not use one in matches and keep escaping with chest finds.
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@mike4156 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149640#Comment_1149640
I think it makes no sense to lose addons if you survive either,
the difference:
Killer - your add-ons are to aid you in hunting and killing survivors, there's no "winning" for the killer only the survivor. (4k feels like winning but that's not what the devs originally intended for the game), killer also doesn't take a risk running add-ons no one can kill them, so yes they should lose their add-ons
Survivor - Taking a risk to potentially lose everything they're using from the start, killers have the power to end us with mori's, noed, tunneling camping, slugging. Killers also see what you're running and can adjust their loadout before the start of a game to counter you.
SO YES I THINK WE DESERVE TO KEEP OUR ADD-ONS!!!!
Survivors out here acting like their Toolbox without addons is more useless than a Trapper without a bag addon lol.
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@DwightOP said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149735#Comment_1149735
Let's be realistic here, who runs out of addons as killer? On my main killers have can use green and and purple aaaall the time, I never run out of them. Only reds are sometimes empty. But for that I have 100+ black wards to use if I want to. The amount of bloodpoints I get from one match brings me more addons back than I actually consumed. While as survivor Im scratching the 20k mark barely even after escaping and playing flawlessly the entire match.
Killers tend to require this ######### for base kit. Killers with their base power is usually incredibly slow, hindered (Trapper without bags), or damn near useless.
You require addons for convenience.
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@DwightOP said:
Am I the only one who finds it kinda silly? I'm bursting down my addons like nothing even tho I escape. I'm sitting on a bunch of items but without good addons anymore lol.
Wasnt the whole idea why survivors keep their addons after escaping because they will lose more if they die (item+addons) and also earn less bloodpoints in general than killers?
At least you should only 1 addon, not both when escaping.
*laughs in four years of killer addon consumption*
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1148729#Comment_1148729
Some of us do hold the devs accountable. I was stating more people should hold them accountable.
Sorry, have you seen how many negative threads there are on the forums on a daily basis?
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@WRussoW said:
What's the point of removing terror radius when you clearly can hear chase music???
Jesus, it doesn't remove music?
Isn't that the whole point?
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1149076#Comment_1149076
The notification is next to useless with how fast new sabotage is.
The hook respawn needs to be back to the 30/20/10 it was before the nerf.
I like the idea of increasing sabotage time, but make it while within the killer radius, not just while carrying. But auto-repair was the main reason most people ran the perk in the first place.
It's not useless.
It tells you not to go for that ######### hook. Or to drop the survivor sooner and spread the pain.
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Why?
Hooks liter the map. Not to mention, six meters on indoor maps like the Game or Lery's would be very useful.
People see scary numbers and get mad. It's like clockwork.
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@Seiko300 said:
I don't want to change the core of Trapper though, even though it sucks having to go across the map to fetch a trap at the other end, it makes him distinctive. (This could also be easily remedied by straight up not allowing traps to spawn on the very edges of the map IE Swamp maps [ugh])
Might be an unpopular opinion, but to me it makes the traps feel more weighty, more significant and permanent than the "traps" The Hag and Freddy "carry" around. And that's because they are, they deal damage and pin a survivor in place which isn't outdated in the slightest, it provides map pressure and cuts off loops (even if a survivor knows they are there) and when it works it's really viable.
Not to mention, if we're thinking long term keeping the Trapper as he is rather than streamlining his ability to be the exact same (which is always boring) as the other killers paves the way to create new characters like the Trapper instead of like Freddy and Hag. Killers who have belongings spread out across the map that they need to pick up along the way but to compensate have significant game changing effects.
Is it perfect? No, but I don't think the core design needs to be changed itself, I really don't like the idea of Trapper starting out with all his traps, being the first killer to ever exist has given a lot of people in the community (including myself) a lot of time to think about how the Trapper could be better. Here are a few of my ideas:
Trap Spawn locations
Change trap spawns, they're useless at the edges of the map to the point where you will never realistically have enough time to pick one or two up. Leaving you at a permanent disadvantage because you don't have access to the full scale of your ability, scatter them closer around the map's center or around generators. Since your whole job as killer in the early game is to slow down and stop as much generator progress and completion, the generators are areas you will likely pass through or close by so it would be really smart to make it more likely for traps to spawn in their vicinity.
Buffing the power itself
To compensate for the weaknesses of the bear trap IE the amount of time it takes to find a trap, pick it up, and place it in a viable are, as well as being far too easy for Survivors to see traps and disable them outright, it should be more powerful in certain aspects. The latter would be the part of the ability I would make changes to. In comparison to Trappers trapping counterparts, Hag's traps can be disabled even more easily but they 1. require the use of a flashlight and 2. are extremely difficult to spot (slightly easier on some maps than others), and Freddy's traps can never be disabled at all, though they can be "inactive" as long as a survivor is awake.
What I would do is make it more of a risk to disable a trap. It's always confused me why survivors are so easily able to disarm traps so precisely without any risk to themselves. I don't know about you, but I'd freak the ######### out if you told me I had to stick my hand inside a bear trap to trigger it's trigger mechanism to close it, and it's pretty likely my hand would get caught. This is exactly how Trapper's traps should act in the game, they should ALWAYS be a risk whenever they're open, a risk to step in but also a risk to disarm.
Bloody coil integration
Currently Trapper has a really great Ultra rare add-on which injures healthy survivors who disarm traps. What I'm saying is integrate a less powerful version of this addon into Trapper's base kit. Make it a 25% or even lower say 20, 15, or even a 10% chance for a healthy survivor to become injured whenever disarming Trapper's traps. If you're not a fan of that, you could instead make it a 33% chance for a tremendously difficult skill check to pop up, if you miss the tremendously difficult skillcheck the trap will snap shut and injure any healthy survivors.
The Ultra rare add on would still be a good option to use, because it changes this from being RNG to a guarantee that healthy survivors will be injured if they try to disarm a trap. However, it wouldn't be as good / useful anymore (at least not as good as ultra rares should be) since it would be slightly integrated into his kit so in response to this change it would receive some minor buffs.
Bloody Coil buffs (in response to base kit integration):
Moderately decreases the repair speed of Survivors who have disarmed a trap for 120 seconds, disarming a trap will cause a survivor to yell and reveal their location for 3 seconds
These are just some logical effects that I thought would make sense with the bloody coil, if you're getting injured by a trap because you stuck your hand into it, it doesn't make the most sense that you would be able to use that same hand to then perfectly repair a complex piece of machinery like a generator. Also, getting your hand caught in a bear trap I think would make anyone yell in pain so that makes sense as well (provides the same effect as having your ankle caught in the trap).
Trap visibility
I would also buff how visible the traps themselves actually are, in comparison to the Hag scrawls in the dirt or the pools of blood Freddy creates (which can be perfectly hidden under grass and are completely invisible [but inactive] while you're awake) the Trapper's Traps stick out like a sore thumb. I would make the Logwood Dye or Tar bottle the base coloration of the trap, and then buff those add-ons in response to make the Traps even darker.
The idea here is that the Traps should be imposing and intimidating devices, and you should never be completely calm and at ease when disarming a beartrap.
The Trial Warmup
Finally the last thing I would do is incorporate Scott Jund's "Trial Warmup" idea. This was an idea Scott Jund created a couple weeks ago that while it does benefit all killers (especially ones who have poor map mobility and map pressure in early game like the Clown) specifically benefits trapping killers who require setup time to be effective. IE The Hag, Freddy, and most especially and importantly the Trapper.
The basic way that it works is the same way the Endgame Collapse speeds up the end of a trial or match, The "Trial Warmup" slows down the beginning of the match and prevents survivors from popping 3 generators in 120 seconds by which time a killer may not have even engaged in a single chase yet. At the beginning of a trial Survivors are under a repair speed debuff of something really heavy or drastic, at minimum 50% but perhaps something like 75% slower than normal repair speed. The Trial Warmup ends when 1 of 3 conditions have been met: A chase has been initiated between a killer or survivor, a survivor's healthstate has changed from healthy to injured, or a killer come in contact with a survivor by a proximity of 4 meters.
Here is the original video from Scott Jund describing it in more detail (there are also some great comments below this video of people adding on great ideas like deactivating all perks while the Trial Warmup is in progress, so read those too)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnWIe-5Lcs
Concluding
Between all of these ideas I think there's plenty of room for both the Trapper (and game) to grow and develop without requiring a change to his core design. That's all I got for now
Eh. I think you mistake something being convenient with being boring. Idk about you but I don't have fun having to force quit a chase and grab a trap, or not maximizing my efficiency with where I travel just because the killer has a bad gimmick.
I've been trying to main trapper. He is super satisfying to play but I will say one of the most frustrating things is the hard limit of carrying traps.
It also sounds like you've never had someone step in a trap a bit too far and have them escape first try in front of you. Hag and Freddy don't rely on RNG. Trapper does.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1128542#Comment_1128542
This "everything is fine" mentality is precisely why map design is horrid.
We should be holding the devs' feet to the fire not praising them.
You can keep pretending that you people don't do this 24/7 on the forum, whatever makes you feel better.
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@NullEXE said:
Sabo changes go live, and they think that just by reducing the bonus wiggle points survivors get by being dropped is going to fix that LUL
We can now say hello to actual apocalypse of this game. Ya'll hear about Deathgarden?
You actually think Deathgarden is a better game lol
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@Masterkit said:
and why the killers have to get punished for that? can the killer break gen progression whenever he wants? no. he needs perks like pop and needs to work to get that stuff. u dont need to work to sabo a hook, there is no condition you do it when u want is stupidly strong in swf..
But... he can do that. Literally anytime he wants.
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@NullEXE said:
You realize you have to aim with a flashlight right? And it's aim, without moving, for a few seconds.
Sabotaging is instantly dropping a hook infront of the killer, and if they drop the survivor - the survivor breaks free. If they go to another hook - sprint burst and drop that hook too. The survivor goes free.
The sabo changes are game breaking.
"But Spring Burst"
*Laughs in Agitation*
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Most of the maps are rather outdated I think. Its from a time where they were still trying to figure out how to balance out the game. And they just... never did.
By the time we figured out it was mostly the map design that bogged the matches down for Killers, it was years in and nothing could really be done about it. At least not quickly. They're reworking things bit by bit, hopefully we will eventually get to the point where maps are balanced and not absurdly large anymore.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Killers tunnel because they can't find anyone else. I don't think hook trading till you die will fix any existing problems.
That's usually not true. But I understand it's a bit more complicated than mere malice.
It's still hurting the game.
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@RaSavage42 said:
It is though
Yes but it's like one different skill check for every status effect and it kinda makes it all weird and hard to strategize.
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@Almo said:
Yes, we listen. We can't act on everything we see for many reasons. But we're definitely paying attention. I can think of a few updates we've made because of suggestions we saw here.
What's the process of creating ideas and mechanics? Leadership approval? Tech limitations?
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@BenZ0 said:
Except the generator 25% slowdown the Idea is really interesting and good. I dont think slowing down the survivors would be fun for their side, maybe block some areas of the map and generators and if the meter is filled open them? Or something else, it was just a random idea though.
I think the removal of tunneling and camping would outweigh the trouble of longer gen repair.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1145447#Comment_1145447
Exhausted: no great skillchecks zone will appear until recovered
Hindered: causes smaller great skillcheck zones until recovered
Hemorrhage: skillchecks would appear red (like with ruin)
Blindness: face difficult skillchecks
Mangled: great skillcheck zone will appear in the middle of the skillchecks
Broken: great skillcheck zone would be "broken" into two one on the top and one on the bottom of the skillcheck
If multiple status effects did occur then the skillcheck will be randomized until recovered or healed off
Seems a bit too complicated. Its probably better streamlined to have skill checks be related to a single status effect.
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Unironically, Huntress.
No, I'm n-not into giant women!
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1145440#Comment_1145440
Just thinking of making skillchecks being effected by the different status effects:
Being exhausted means no great skillcheck zones... etc.
I proposed such an effect:
Disoriented
When a survivor is disoriented, they are struck with confusion, making any lengthy actions more difficult. 10% more difficult skill checks, 15% more frequent skill checks. Skill checks now randomize between normal, counter clockwise, and speed-up/slow-down checks.
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@Raven014 said:
Its good, it just gives camping a bit of a buff from what I understand. Because of the 5th hook giving an increase to gen speed, killers might want to just camp them to confirm the kill and not lose the longer gen speed. I know you mention a pop effect of 25% when hooking an expired survivor, just I don't think certain people will really care...
You misunderstand; it would not give camping a buff. Hooks no longer kill survivors, not until you fill your Entity Meter to full.
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@SurvivingSurvivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/135495/survivor-pressure-versus-killer-pressure
Mori’s just need to be put out of the game. I can’t believe you worked them into your proposal as if they were a fair thing to both sides. Hmm. More killer sided nonsense.
What? This is literally the biggest nerf to Moris that's been proposed so far.
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@Seltas0208 said:
All I'm going to say is. Its a lot of details to remember about the game and players could lose track of this tally easily.
If there was on-screen indicators then this idea would be fabulous
Ideally, I would include a tally or an indicator of when a survivor has expired.
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@honestlybaffled said:
That is quite nice, the part that it deletes tunnel and survivors won't die as easily, will make survivor mains really pleased.
Reduced gen speeds at the beginning would definitely please killers, but might make it impossible for a bad team to ever finish a game.
Moris and keys are bullshizzle imo, so aas far as I know, both could be deleted or reworked.
Do remember that for every hook the killer makes, that penalty is reduced a portion. If survivors are getting stomped, they will eventually make even and even gain repair speed to compensate.
If they can't recover after that boost, I would call it a fair loss.
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@emptyCups said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144827#Comment_1144827
"Survivors will no longer die on hook and no longer have to Struggle during the Struggling Phase."
So no rush to ever ever save someone they can leave me on the hook all day with no consequences leaving me to either sit with nothing to do or just DC because games without timers could be 4 minutes or 40. Twice btw
"Each survivor can fill a portion of this meter twice, but after reaching the Struggling Phase, they are 'expired' and cannot provide anymore progress on the Killer's meter.
When the meter is full, the Entity bellows, and the next hook the Survivor receives will kill them instantly. If a Mori offering was burnt, the Killer can bypass the hooking process and kill them outright."
So either 2 hooks with no change to how we have now or.. you fill two separate meters one and then a second and if its filling meters then optionally if your saved nearly instantly ud only tap the meter not fill it... so dozens of hooks before a single kill ? Yikes.
Expired... so you can be on the hook and ready for death but you have to get taken off to die... so theres no reason to save you unless we about to leave. Also no reason not to take every body block save DS second chance measure in the book because you about to die and the killer has to tunnel you at all cost to get a kill ?
" If a Mori offering was burnt, the Killer can bypass the hooking process and kill them outrigh"
Mori is just to pass the hooking phase huh ? So MASSIVE nerf and it's just an animation not really a shortcut since hooks are right there...? Might as well make that base game.
"All generators are slowed by 25%, which increases by 5% each time the Killer makes progress on the Killer meter (AKA every fresh hook). At around 5 hooks, the survivors begin to gain generator repair speed as the Killer gets closer to meeting his goal and being able to kill all of them.
Hooking an expired Survivor will reduce the generator repair speed back to -25% regardless of current progress"
Old ruin but the worse survivors do the less gen speed affects them... interesting.
"If all four survivors are hooked before the meter is filled, the Entity will free all survivors"
I see so if they all are so bad they cant save each other then they all get off and try again... and the last person hooked would just be downed instantly because the killer would stand there...
Wait wait... wouldnt slugging kill this whole system?
Several things.
1) It's not meant to fundamentally change how it functions now. 2 hooks per survivor before you can begin to kill them. Gen speed and game pacing will be directly tied to how many fresh hooks the killer is getting, meaning if the killer is doing well, the survivors are faster to achieve fast gen completion as a chance to bounce back. If the killer is doing poorly, he has 25% gen slowdown to fall back on. Yes, you won't be able to kill until the end, but if the early game is balanced well and the mechanics are given proper care it won't matter imo. It'll be fun for all parties.
2) Time on hook could be an issue. We can implement stricter penalties depending on how long the survivor has been hooked for. While that may be unfun to be hooked for a long period of time, I find it's a fixable solution, and a far cry from being tunneled or camped.
3) Moris needed a nerf anyway. So I'm not shedding a tear over it. Keys need a nerf too.
4) You didn't read. Freed survivors are given Endurance for 15 seconds. Meaning if the Killer camps the hook their hit will be ignored.
5) Slugging wouldn't hurt this anymore than it hurts the current gameplay. A slugged survivor doesn't get a hook stage in the current game, meaning you can't kill them as early. Sometimes that's a risk you can take, and it's no different here. Doesn't break the system.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144846#Comment_1144846
I mean the opposite side from where you perform the hook action - If you don't know what I mean, you haven't seen Sabo abused.
I ran Agitation during the PTB and had good results. I've been able to either outrun survivors go the hook or punish them severely.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1144837#Comment_1144837
Are these people on the PTB that you're facing sabo'ing from behind the hook?
What do you even mean? You mean under the hook or somewhere you can't hit them?
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@Spooky13 said:
Devs have an extra week. If Sabo changes go live the way they are in the PTB I will eat my own pants.
How bad are you guys?
I've been playing trapper on the PTB and every time they've saboed a hook I've made a trade off or ended up with a slug and a hook.
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@Nos37 said:
If you are blinded or stunned by a non-obsession, that survivor becomes the obsession (as it currently does),
If you are blinded or stunned by the obsession, any killer obsession perks that can gain stacks gain 1 stack.
Remember that Nemesis has a cooldown, so it's not like a non-obsession survivor can pallet-stun the killer, become the obsession, and then give the killer stacks for their obsession perks by blinding the killer while they're breaking the pallet.
I mean, it doesn't need a use against the obsession. The perk on it's own, as far as I'm aware, is to be able to switch your obsession and thus synergize with other obsession perks. It's more a foundation perk for a particular build.
I like your buff tho. But reserve that for another perk maybe.
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@emptyCups said:
Flashlight saves and sabo would be huge meta. Body blocking carrys on expired survivors would be brutal to killers... and anyone who could loop well would really just be rewarded with extra lives
I guess I don't see how killers would kill anymore given how hard it is to murder past all these health states and hooks as the game currently is. But I guess your saying the point of the game wouldn't be on kills anymore....
As survivor I'd be holding the gens slightly longer and regression would be an issue but I could literally wait forever to save someone so theres no rush even if I'm last alive I could just hide until I decided to save one of my freinds waiting until the killer is the farthest away or until I'm done dancing and then both of us could save the other two and the killers game is completely lost all steam.
My gens are APROX 67-71 seconds usually because I haven't missed a great in 2 years and toolboxes speed it up QUICK so 25% more time would be... idk 10 or 20 seconds more each gen depending on who you talk to I'm almost never scared off a gen because the killers usually chase the first person who jumps off rather then kick it and loose them... my survivor experience is really relaxed and I hardly ever die dispite putting in 0 effort because my friends carry me so long as I do gens. The game is so easy for survivors it honestly only takes one person experienced to save and lead an entire team out almost every time...
All ur slowdown stuff just kinda seems like base game old ruin in different consistancy
idk really really cool concept
Maybe best saved for dbd 2
Because at its core dead by daylight just doesnt work anymore BECAUSE killers win condition isnt clear.
It's more that I want the conditions to be more one side or the other. The goal is for the killer to fill his bar so he can finish off the survivors. The goal for the survivors is to escape before the killer fills his meter to full and finishes them off.
And I'm throwing some numbers around. 25% may not be as much as it sounds on paper. But that can be adjusted as necessary, such as -50% reduction but it increases by 10% each hook then increases 5% above standard late game.
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Agitation, hands down. Though only at max rarity.
The benefit is twofold. It gives you the speed you need to get on a hook and reduce the slog of hooking survivors. But it can also get cheeky hits in on survivors who try to bait out a wack and waste your time, and don't realize you're running this perk. Not to mention that with the recent update on sabotage coming I found running Agitation helped me either beat survivors to the hook or commit to a trade off.
Often times it's even landed me with a hook and a slug resulting in double the pressure. Sometimes I've even memed it by carrying a survivor who isn't struggling and chasing someone with it.
Very underrated. Should be considered more often.
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@Rey_512 said:
Sounds interesting, but it’s one of those things that I’d like to see it in action before saying YES or NO. I like that hooks don’t have a timer (preventing camping), but that means all 4 survivors will be in the game much longer (increasing the chances of all 4 escaping despite not performing well). I can see this being an issue with Blendette/UE players.
I would argue that extending generator speed would feel less daunting if the killer can't eliminate someone at the start of the match.
It would also help extend matches with the killer, as when a killer is doing poorly they still can fall back on a 25% repair speed reduction. If the killer is steamrolling, the survivors are granted repair speed buffs to help them keep up in the late game.
The goal here is to encourage the most interaction with the killer and give players the most out of a match.
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@MegaWaffle said:
Very interesting idea and it has merit. While I do not believe DBD will make such a drastic core change (quite the overhaul for a 3y+ game) its a concept I hope they consider if they plan on making a DBD 2 OR decide they want DBD to last for another 5y+.
I have also spoken my mind many times on the idea (you hit) that "killers win" condition isn't clear. While I get some people count kills as a win and other consider a "pip" as a win, without a proper and concise definition it drives these two mindsets to have conflicting ideas of game "balance" and probably trickles into the toxic community DBD has gotten.
I'm glad it's received well. I posted the same idea on the Steam forums and it was pretty well received.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Very nice read.
You know at first glance I was kind of wondering where you were going with these ideas but after reading I have to say I agree with you (even if not on everything).
I play mostly survivor but I do play killer as well and most of the time I am thinking I need to get “these many hooks” before they have a chance to get out. So while I understand both sides and their issues with tunneling, on the killer side the killer isn’t thinking “welp gotta tunnel” they are thinking I need these hooks to outpace. Of course there is always that one person who just wants to be a bad sport and do it on purpose without caring about winning.
Honestly, I really feel like we need new mechanics. The game has grown enough that there should be objectives within the game that will help either side out-pace each other without heavily relying on perks or RNG. Things like adding different features to chases and general killer/survivor interaction.
We just need something that will make it more fun and interactive for both sides.
I know a lot of people would be hesitant to rework such a core aspect of killer gameplay. But I truly think if the central gameplay didn't reward tunneling so much it wouldn't be an issue.
Devs don't want tunneling in their game? This fix addresses that and then some.
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@Lavos99z said:
I have had so many games in a row tonight, think I've lost count, where the killer decided it'd be fun to make the game as unfun to play for me as possible by tunneling me. Out of four people...I get hooked three times in a row due to how the killer decides to play their game. Please make some kind of change that discourages this behavior. I know it's hard for killers right now but this is toxic to play against.
I posted in another thread this idea, let's see what people think:
I think most of these problems would be solved if the Killer and Survivors played off each other better.
The Survivor's pressure in a match has far more permanence. This is what leads to tunneling and camping, barring just straight maliciousness or 'just getting that one kill'. Because for a Killer, you don't have permanent pressure except when you kill a survivor, and what better way to do that than to take out the weakest link and reduce a 1/4 of time wasted?
The issue isn't really anything the Devs have put out, the issue is the gameplay loop; the Devs think this current sacrifice mechanic is viable. But it isn't. I don't think it has a real future. The Survivors have a quota to fulfill as an objective. The Killer doesn't have a clear quota... except maybe bloodpoints. The Survs and Killer are playing two different games, really.
I think reworking the sacrifice mechanic altogether would help with most of these issues. Here is what I propose:
- Instead of hooks killing survivors, hooks act as a tally for the Killer; for each hook the Killer makes, he feeds the Entity's hunger and fills a meter.
- Survivors will no longer die on hook and no longer have to Struggle during the Struggling Phase.
- Each survivor can fill a portion of this meter twice, but after reaching the Struggling Phase, they are 'expired' and cannot provide anymore progress on the Killer's meter.
- When the meter is full, the Entity bellows, and the next hook the Survivor receives will kill them instantly. If a Mori offering was burnt, the Killer can bypass the hooking process and kill them outright.
- All generators are slowed by 25%, which increases by 5% each time the Killer makes progress on the Killer meter (AKA every fresh hook). At around 5 hooks, the survivors begin to gain generator repair speed as the Killer gets closer to meeting his goal and being able to kill all of them.
- Hooking an expired Survivor will reduce the generator repair speed back to -25% regardless of current progress, incentivizing rescue of expired survivors to draw out ones the Killer has not freshly hooked yet.
- If all four survivors are hooked before the meter is filled, the Entity will free all survivors, granting them Endurance for 15 seconds and 25% healing for 30 seconds to recover. The Killer will gain a permanent buff for doing well; a 45% slowdown reduction on missed or successful hit animations (So during the cleaning animation you're 45% faster while moving).
I think using this system would have many benefits. For one, it directly opposes Tunneling and Camping as a tactic, as the Killer gains nothing from Tunneling a single survivor except what he can offer. You also can't camp and wait for the timer to expire, as the survivor won't die on hook until the Killer feeds the Entity's hunger through pain and misery (which, additionally, is lore friendly to the Entity). It changes a lot but doesn't change the ultimate gameplay mechanics, only the Killer's ultimate goal with a few balancing changes thrown in. Furthermore, the match pace is now determined by how well or how poorly the killer does, allowing more play time between survivor and killer and avoiding deaths on hooks that interrupt the Survivor's fun while being chased around by the Killer. It extends match length and gives us a better experience overall.
I think utilizing this would solve most of the toxic issues we have, as both sides have a clear goal, rather than one side having a clear objective and the other having a vague idea of what they're supposed to do. It makes it still asymmetrical but similar enough so that they play off each other better.
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@NecroGoatLord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142847#Comment_1142847
The only reason there is no competition is because Friday The 13th can't add any content to the game. But even in its current form FT13 is a better game in the fact that Neither side is OP.
Sure you only face off against Jason, but which form & from which movie?
Another thing that gives it a win is the in game chat. When in a certain distance of others they can hear you, but so can the killer lol
If FT13 could add more I'm sure there'd be more more playing it.
Yeah. Sadly issues with legal really dug the game's grave.
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I think most of these problems would be solved if the Killer and Survivors played off each other better.
The Survivor's pressure in a match has far more permanence. This is what leads to tunneling and camping, barring just straight maliciousness or 'just getting that one kill'. Because for a Killer, you don't have permanent pressure except when you kill a survivor, and what better way to do that than to take out the weakest link and reduce a 1/4 of time wasted?
The issue isn't really anything the Devs have put out, the issue is the gameplay loop; the Devs think this current sacrifice mechanic is viable. But it isn't. I don't think it has a real future. The Survivors have a quota to fulfill as an objective. The Killer doesn't have a clear quota... except maybe bloodpoints. The Survs and Killer are playing two different games, really.
I think reworking the sacrifice mechanic altogether would help with most of these issues. Here is what I propose:
- Instead of hooks killing survivors, hooks act as a tally for the Killer; for each hook the Killer makes, he feeds the Entity's hunger and fills a meter.
- Survivors will no longer die on hook and no longer have to Struggle during the Struggling Phase.
- Each survivor can fill a portion of this meter twice, but after reaching the Struggling Phase, they are 'expired' and cannot provide anymore progress on the Killer's meter.
- When the meter is full, the Entity bellows, and the next hook the Survivor receives will kill them instantly. If a Mori offering was burnt, the Killer can bypass the hooking process and kill them outright.
- All generators are slowed by 25%, which increases by 5% each time the Killer makes progress on the Killer meter (AKA every fresh hook). At around 5 hooks, the survivors begin to gain generator repair speed as the Killer gets closer to meeting his goal and being able to kill all of them.
- Hooking an expired Survivor will reduce the generator repair speed back to -25% regardless of current progress, incentivizing rescue of expired survivors to draw out ones the Killer has not freshly hooked yet.
- If all four survivors are hooked before the meter is filled, the Entity will free all survivors, granting them Endurance for 15 seconds and 25% healing for 30 seconds to recover. The Killer will gain a permanent buff for doing well; a 45% slowdown reduction on missed or successful hit animations (So during the cleaning animation you're 45% faster while moving).
I think using this system would have many benefits. For one, it directly opposes Tunneling and Camping as a tactic, as the Killer gains nothing from Tunneling a single survivor except what he can offer. You also can't camp and wait for the timer to expire, as the survivor won't die on hook until the Killer feeds the Entity's hunger through pain and misery (which, additionally, is lore friendly to the Entity). It changes a lot but doesn't change the ultimate gameplay mechanics, only the Killer's ultimate goal with a few balancing changes thrown in. Furthermore, the match pace is now determined by how well or how poorly the killer does, allowing more play time between survivor and killer and avoiding deaths on hooks that interrupt the Survivor's fun while being chased around by the Killer. It extends match length and gives us a better experience overall.
I think utilizing this would solve most of the toxic issues we have, as both sides have a clear goal, rather than one side having a clear objective and the other having a vague idea of what they're supposed to do. It makes it still asymmetrical but similar enough so that they play off each other better.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142770#Comment_1142770
I don't mean this to be rude, but you're either only seeing this from one side or accidentally skipped something. I'll just explain things again and tell you why I believe this benefits everyone.
You say this will take away pressure on survivors, but my idea only takes away pressure on weakened survivors and increases pressure on survivors who got their bearings. Survivors who had time to recover from their weakened state, will have 2 minutes (Active Timer) to remove the RBT while weakened survivors get 3 minutes (Active Timer + Passive Timer).
This gives all survivors a fair chance to remove the RBT, regardless of the circumstances. Therefore, when the developers buff the RBTs, they won't have to worry about survivors dying to them due to unfair conditions.
Keep in mind, fair doesn't mean weak, as the majority of the community likes to think. Something can be strong and fair, if we take the right approach.
After we make this change, the developers can do this without killing innocent survivors:
- Survivors cannot remove the RBT on their first search.
- Rules Set NO.2 can be basekit.
- Increase search time.
- Etc...
- Etc...
The developers are given more possibilities now. 😄
An injured survivor does nothing for the killer. It gives them time to heal that they aren't doing a generator, or they just ignore the injury and continue working on gens and pressure the Killer back (And since the Survivor's pressure is permanent, that means far more than an M1 hit). So why are we concerned about an injured survivor? Its not like they have a significant weakness; an injured survivor can still loop a killer well, and completely turn the tide of a match on their own. There are plenty of matches where survivors will straight up not heal and keep pressuring gens.
I mean, lets look at all the circumstances required for the Pig to put on a RBT:
- Pig has to find a survivor.
- Pig has to chase, close out loops, and down the survivor, taking anywhere from 15 seconds to 2 minutes depending on if the survivor makes mistakes and the killer capitalizes on the mistakes.
- Pig has to put the Reverse Bear Trap on the survivors head.
- The Pig then has to wait until the next generator pops for the timer to actually start, in which time the RBT is still able to be freely removed from their head without the fear of it going off at all.
- If the RBT does go off and they didn't spend the free time they had searching, then they will have two minutes to get it off *provided they are not in a chase, dying, or on hook*
- The boxes they need are already highlighted.
There are so many factors for a RBT to actually kill a survivor, that its not a concern. There are no 'unfair' deaths from a RBT, I mean, the thing only activates based on something outside the Killer's own control.
So I don't understand why this grace period is necessary. The RBT has rarely killed, simply because of the large amount of required circumstances for the thing to even BEGIN ticking down.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1142770#Comment_1142770
That's not to mention that the timer straight up stops within her terror radius.
No it does not. It only stops when a Survivor is being chased, in the Dying State, or on a hook.
I recall there being a change where they made it stop in her terror radius. Was this reverted? I stopped playing the Pig a while ago so I'm a bit rusty on mechanical ends of things.
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As the other said, it depends on the context.
If you want to get your one mori offering and be done, sure.
Though if you're just slugging people to slug and letting them bleed out, yeah, toxic.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1140763#Comment_1140763
I don't know if you're saying this is a bad or good idea because you're just saying my idea is complicated and that's it.
I'm just going to take an educated guess and say you don't like this idea because you believe it's not necessary.
However, my counter argument is that adding this idea opens new doors for buffing the RBTs.
- Since we added a grace period for survivors who are weakened or disabled, this means we can make direct changes to the RBT without worrying about killing those survivors.
My question is, why are we worried about the power killing survivors?
Sure, its not her main method of killing, its not even a frequent thing. But that doesn't mean she needs to lose her power's lethality all together.
Its her killer power. It should be something that has pressure to it, and while it wastes the survivor's time, that's all it kinda does. That's not to mention that the timer straight up stops within her terror radius.
Idk, I've never seen anyone complain about the RBT killing them, not when there's things like Moris and Myer's Tombstone addons to contend with. In my days playing Pig, I've only seen a handful of RBTs kill survivors since her release. And I mained Pig for a while, when her power was strongest.
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@Arxaion said:
Tunneling wouldn't be even half as prevalent as it is now if survivors played a bit smarter. If a killer is tunneling, let them and crank out generators until they regret their decision. As a killer main myself, I will absolutely "tunnel" survivors if they are unhooked the second I turn my back. I wish they would stop trying to implement ways for survivors to get around bad decisions like this. That's besides the point of the post though.
I think it seems a little convoluted, considering how much more is going on in a match. I'd rather see something along the lines of removing the hook phases, and seeing all survivors' hook regression speeds increase each time one is hooked. Allow survivors to be hooked more than twice and, as compensation, increase future hooked survivors' regression speeds by 5% (stacking). At some point in the match survivors that weren't vigilant early on will be pressured to unhook survivors quickly, rather than tip-toe around it. Has everyone already been hooked once? Well, then future hooks will regress 20% faster. Are you being tunneled repeatedly? Cool, you aren't going to necessarily die outright from it.
None of this prevents tunneling or camping.
My suggestion would directly punish both, as you can't camp a kill anymore.
Steam Forums seemed to find this idea well received.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1139804#Comment_1139804
None of those are really things that need to be addressed, though. If you are using Blood Warden- and the vast majority of people aren't- you can open up the gates yourself. If you want to start the timer and get add some pressure to the survivors, you can also open the gates yourself. But in either case, this is a direct upgrade to what we had before where you had no control over the situation and solely relied on the survivors opening a gate, in spite of the EGC not being designed to give you more pressure or kills.
Okay but no killer in their right mind is going to open the exit gate. I'd rather take the moment of hesitation a survivor has to take to open an exit gate, than literally open it for them and let them pass through.
Better call would just to buff Blood Warden. No reason it needs to activate during the End Game Collapse when the situation is usually already unsalvageable.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1140373#Comment_1140373
There are two timers: Passive and Active.
Once the RBT is activated by a generator, the first timer, the passive timer, will begin to tick down to 0 seconds from 1:00.
The active timer, will immediately start after the passive timer reaches 0 seconds.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/373/4M958NXE4WXU.jpg
The only thing that separates the passive timer from the active timer is that the passive timer is skipped when the trapped survivor, upon their RBT becoming activated by a generator, was NOT dying or hooked within the last 15 seconds.
Therefore, if the condition for a passive timer is not met, the RBT will instead begin its active timer.
I feel like this is overly complicated for a killer that's already gimped of her lethality with her power.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1140137#Comment_1140137
Why would you even bother telling him all of this? There s no any kind of holding the game hostage and can not be in this game. The killer wont get banned but op may though for being toxic in post chat.
Rank 20 experience, I'm playing Survivor for the first time in a while.
I can understand this frustration. Last four games have been nothing but facecamping and tunneling.
But that isn't my concern. My concern is someone who is clearly good at the game forcing everyone on the bleed out timer.
Yes its not "hostage taking", but you know what it is? A massive waste of time; I either have to sit and waste a half hour on a match that's already over, kept alive barely by one survivor picking us up one by one, or I have to DC.
If the choice is to waste my time but keep my BP, or DC and get a penalty, there is no choice. So yeah, if you wanna get on me for being pissed that's fine.